Divine soul

[Houster]

I'm interested about good spell picks and spell+metamagic combos, but did not find any good material. Especially considering the low amount of spells known.
So if you could write here your suggestions, or post some links to material.

Thanks

[carrdrivesyou]

Using Inflict Wounds with Quicken Spell followed by a Chill Touch is pretty thematic, deals a boatload of damage, AND prevents further healing. Deliverable via familiar.

[Arial Black]

By round 3 your action is to cast a spell (any non-concentration spell), your bonus action is to attack with the already cast Spiritual Weapon, while being surrounded by the damaging aura from Spirit Guardians (that doesn't hurt your friends), while being protected by Mage Armour (and Shield when needed), Mirror Image, and maybe Counterspell/Absorb Elements.

[Houster]

By round 3 your action is to cast a spell (any non-concentration spell), your bonus action is to attack with the already cast Spiritual Weapon, while being surrounded by the damaging aura from Spirit Guardians (that doesn't hurt your friends), while being protected by Mage Armour (and Shield when needed), Mirror Image, and maybe Counterspell/Absorb Elements.

I mean... any cleric could do that minus the defensive reaction spells.
If that's my go to, i'll pick cleric.

[RogueJK]

A Divine Soul Sorcerer definitely wants the Twinned Metamagic.

Twinning single-target Cleric buffs like Protection from Good and Evil or Death Ward is a great party buff option.

Twinned Guiding Bolt can be an efficient ranged attack spell against 2 targets, especially when upcast. (Better than Sorcerer options like Scorching Ray or Twinned Chromatic Orb, thanks to the range, rider, and Radiant damage.)

Twinned Healing Word can pick up two downed allies using just one Bonus Action.

Plus you still have the usual Sorcerer Twin Spell options, like Twinned Haste or Twinned (Greater) Invisibility as fantastic buffs. A personal favorite is Twinned Polymorph, which can be a game-changer, either for massively quasi-healing two party members on the verge of dropping, or for removing two of the bad guys from the fight temporarily to split their forces, or for one of each.



Otherwise, Spiritual Weapon, as mentioned, is a great use of your Bonus Action.

Bless is always a good option if you don't have something else specific to be spending your Concentration on (and someone else in the party hasn't already cast it). It's one of the best buffs in the game, useful from Level 1-20.

If you're the party's only healer/status remover, you'll basically be obligated to take stuff like Healing Word, Lesser/Greater Restoration, Revivify, etc., which will cut into your total spells known.

If you're able to boost your frontline staying power by dipping a level in something like Hexblade or Cleric (or 2 levels of Paladin) for Armor and Shield proficiency, then Spirit Guardians is very handy on the front lines, as is Twinned or Quickened Inflict Wounds and later Twinned Bestow Curse.

The old frontline Cleric trick of Spiritual Weapon + Spirit Guardians + Dodge Action can be made even better since you'll also have the various Sorcerer defensive spells to assist with this strategy (Shield, Absorb Elements, Mirror Image, etc.).

[Waazraath]

I'm interested about good spell picks and spell+metamagic combos, but did not find any good material. Especially considering the low amount of spells known.
So if you could write here your suggestions, or post some links to material.

Thanks

Extend spell + Aid and Death ward. Cast 'em day before dungeoneering just before the night (long rest), start the next adventuring day with maximum upcast AID and death wards for everybody, without costing any spell slots.

In addition, when doing an old school dungeon crawl and you have a good con save, extending a spirt guardians can also be gold.

[Houster]

A Divine Soul Sorcerer definitely wants the Twinned Metamagic.

Twinning single-target Cleric buffs like Protection from Good and Evil or Death Ward is a great party buff option.

Twinned Guiding Bolt can be an efficient ranged attack spell against 2 targets, especially when upcast. (Potentially better than Sorcerer options like Scorching Ray or Twinned Chromatic Orb, thanks to the range, rider, and Radiant damage.)

Twinned Healing Word can pick up two downed allies using just one Bonus Action.

Plus you still have the usual Sorcerer Twin Spell options, like Twinned Haste or Twinned (Greater) Invisibility as fantastic buffs. A personal favorite is Twinned Polymorph, which can be a game-changer, either for massively quasi-healing two party members on the verge of dropping, or for removing two of the bad guys from the fight temporarily to split their forces, or for one of each.



Otherwise, Spiritual Weapon, as mentioned, is a great use of your Bonus Action.

Bless is always a good option if you don't have something else specific to be spending your Concentration on. It's useful from Level 1-20.

If you're the party's only healer/status remover, you'll basically be obligated to take stuff like Healing Word, Lesser/Greater Restoration, Revivify, etc., which will cut into your total spells known.

If you're able to boost your melee staying power by dipping something like Hexblade, Cleric, or Paladin, then Spirit Guardians is very handy, as is Twinned or Quickened Inflict Wounds and later Twinned Bestow Curse.

I also thought about twinned sanctuary(starting the round with a cantrip or twinned cantrip).

What do you think about sanctuary for divine soul?

[RogueJK]

I don't find Sanctuary to be that useful. It only lasts until the protected party casts a spell on or attacks an enemy.

So do you really want to Twin it and remove two of your party members from being able to contribute to the fight?

It's only situationally useful, for instances in which the targeted person won't be participating in the fight anyway, like they're trying to flee, or they're having to manipulate a machine while you hold off enemies, or the like.

[Arial Black]

I mean... any cleric could do that minus the defensive reaction spells.
If that's my go to, i'll pick cleric.

Not only does it in fact have those defensive reaction spells, it also has defensive spells that clerics lack-Mirror Image, Blink-it also has offensive spells that outclass cleric spells! Fireball is just the first that comes to mind, but Haste, Hypnotic Pattern and Sleet Storm can be huge!

[Houster]

Not only does it in fact have those defensive reaction spells, it also has defensive spells that clerics lack-Mirror Image, Blink-it also has offensive spells that outclass cleric spells! Fireball is just the first that comes to mind, but Haste, Hypnotic Pattern and Sleet Storm can be huge!

Fireball is available to light clerics. And the spells you named are indeed great, but none work with spirit guardians.

If I have armor as a cleric, mirror image is not that important.
Blink and spirit guardians is not productive... if you fade- the spell affects no one.

But i'll take your advice as adding big control spells to a cleric-like build, which cleric is missing some of those(right?).

[Arial Black]

Fireball is available to light clerics. And the spells you named are indeed great, but none work with spirit guardians.

If I have armor as a cleric, mirror image is not that important.
Blink and spirit guardians is not productive... if you fade- the spell affects no one.

But i'll take your advice as adding big control spells to a cleric-like build, which cleric is missing some of those(right?).

Sure, you can only have one concentration spell going, so Spirit Guardians won't work with some others.

However, in my experience of playing a single class Divine Soul up to and including 10th level in SKT, you have many hypothetical arrows in your quiver.

I like Spirit Guardians. A lot! But the tactics of different combats require different solutions, and getting to within 15 feet of lots of bad guys to use the spell is frequently a bad idea! That's when you need a different solution, like Fireball/Sleet Storm/Hypnotic Pattern get used instead of Spirit Guardians!

What you said about "might as well just play a cleric" applies equally to "might as well just play a different sorcerer subclass". The advantage of Divine Soul is that you can choose from BOTH lists freely! And if you ONLY choose cleric spells, or ONLY choose sorcerer spells, then you're playing the wrong class/subclass!

To make Divine Soul shine-and it CAN shine!-you must take advantage of BOTH lists or you're wasting your time. The combinations possible with those two lists makes Divine Soul one of the best in the game....when done skilfully.

[RogueJK]

What you said about "might as well just play a cleric" applies equally to "might as well just play a different sorcerer subclass". The advantage of Divine Soul is that you can choose from BOTH lists freely! And if you ONLY choose cleric spells, or ONLY choose sorcerer spells, then you're playing the wrong class/subclass!

To make Divine Soul shine-and it CAN shine!-you must take advantage of BOTH lists or you're wasting your time. The combinations possible with those two lists makes Divine Soul one of the best in the game....when done skilfully.

Well said. The only caveat I'll add to this is even if you mostly take Cleric spells (because you're the party's only healer/status remove/dead raiser/etc. for example), the Divine Soul can still do stuff with some of those Cleric spells that a Cleric can't, thanks to Metamagic.

But the flexibility of cherry-picking from both lists is definitely the primary point of the subclass.

[Houster]

Sure, you can only have one concentration spell going, so Spirit Guardians won't work with some others.

However, in my experience of playing a single class Divine Soul up to and including 10th level in SKT, you have many hypothetical arrows in your quiver.

I like Spirit Guardians. A lot! But the tactics of different combats require different solutions, and getting to within 15 feet of lots of bad guys to use the spell is frequently a bad idea! That's when you need a different solution, like Fireball/Sleet Storm/Hypnotic Pattern get used instead of Spirit Guardians!

What you said about "might as well just play a cleric" applies equally to "might as well just play a different sorcerer subclass". The advantage of Divine Soul is that you can choose from BOTH lists freely! And if you ONLY choose cleric spells, or ONLY choose sorcerer spells, then you're playing the wrong class/subclass!

To make Divine Soul shine-and it CAN shine!-you must take advantage of BOTH lists or you're wasting your time. The combinations possible with those two lists makes Divine Soul one of the best in the game....when done skilfully.

Yes I get what you are saying. Could you(or any other helping reader) suggest a spell list for say, a 7th level divine soul? And metamagic picks.

Btw I do not see myself taking spiritual guardians at all. It takes the squishy sorc to the mid-front. Bad idea.

[patchyman]

Using Inflict Wounds with Quicken Spell followed by a Chill Touch is pretty thematic, deals a boatload of damage, AND prevents further healing. Deliverable via familiar.

High level Inflict Wounds + Favoured by the Gods means that you are unlikely to “waste” a slot by missing with your big damage dealing spells. Plus this combo comes back on a short rest.

[ff7hero]

I don't find Sanctuary to be that useful. It only lasts until the protected party casts a spell on or attacks an enemy.

So do you really want to Twin it and remove two of your party members from being able to contribute to the fight?

It's only situationally useful, for instances in which the targeted person won't be participating in the fight anyway, like they're trying to flee, or they're having to manipulate a machine while you hold off enemies, or the like.

Depending on initiative order, it can be worth casting knowing the target will break it. It's not an always useful spell, but it has its uses.

[Thunderous Mojo]

High level Inflict Wounds + Favoured by the Gods means that you are unlikely to “waste” a slot by missing with your big damage dealing spells. Plus this combo comes back on a short rest.
A Cleric of Trickery can use Invoke Duplicity to get Advantage on attack rolls with Inflict Wounds. Elven Accuracy applies, and Invoke Duplicity can apply to Spiritual Weapon attack rolls.


However, in my experience of playing a single class Divine Soul up to and including 10th level in SKT, you have many hypothetical arrows in your quiver.

I like Spirit Guardians. A lot! But the tactics of different combats require different solutions, and getting to within 15 feet of lots of bad guys to use the spell is frequently a bad idea! That's when you need a different solution, like Fireball/Sleet Storm/Hypnotic Pattern get used instead of Spirit Guardians!


At the level you write about you have 11 spells. You list 4 spells in the section quoted above, you list more in a quote down bellow. I would be interested in seeing your spell list, if you wouldn't mind sharing. The OP certainly has asked for a list,


Not only does it in fact have those defensive reaction spells, it also has defensive spells that clerics lack-Mirror Image, Blink-it also has offensive spells that outclass cleric spells! Fireball is just the first that comes to mind, but Haste, Hypnotic Pattern and Sleet Storm can be huge!

A Cleric of Trickery has Mirror Image and Blink as Domain Spells. The Domain list also includes: Pass Without Trace, Disguise Self, Dispel Magic, and Polymorph.
As well as access to the full range of spells on the cleric's spell list, as a Prepared caster. A cleric does not have to chose between knowing Animate Dead, or Sending or Spirit Guardians, a cleric prepares what will fit the circumstances.

I love Metamagic, and a Divine Soul is a great character, but the white room theory crafting is palatable.

[RSP]

Depending on initiative order, it can be worth casting knowing the target will break it. It's not an always useful spell, but it has its uses.

Agreed. I think it can be a fantastic spell in the right situation: namely when the party tank (or anyone so unfortunate) gets swarmed and isn’t next to another PC, and you know the bad guys will go before the swarmed character. A 1st level BA spell could completely wipeout all the attacks they would take.

To the OP: what role are you looking to fill/how are you playing this character? That will definitely help with meta magic and spell choices. I recently had a DS build post on here that worked as a melee Sorc, if interested in playing that way (it used Extended and Quicken).

If your goal is to buff others, Twin is good. Extended works well for Aid, MA, DW and Darkvision, if needed. Quicken is good if not buffing (I wouldn’t start with both). Subtle if you want to go unnoticed. If blasting, Empowered.

[Mikal]

I mean... any cleric could do that minus the defensive reaction spells.
If that's my go to, i'll pick cleric.

Here's what makes you different.
Your non concentration spell is fireball. Or lightning bolt. Or Ice Storm. Or any other ranged AoE.
That's where the divine soul shines. He mixes both in close personal damage, single target damage, and long range AoE damage in a single package as long as he has the spell slots and sorcery points. It's flexibility, constrained by their meagre spells known, but flexibility nonetheless.

[Houster]

Agreed. I think it can be a fantastic spell in the right situation: namely when the party tank (or anyone so unfortunate) gets swarmed and isn’t next to another PC, and you know the bad guys will go before the swarmed character. A 1st level BA spell could completely wipeout all the attacks they would take.

To the OP: what role are you looking to fill/how are you playing this character? That will definitely help with meta magic and spell choices. I recently had a DS build post on here that worked as a melee Sorc, if interested in playing that way (it used Extended and Quicken).

If your goal is to buff others, Twin is good. Extended works well for Aid, MA, DW and Darkvision, if needed. Quicken is good if not buffing (I wouldn’t start with both). Subtle if you want to go unnoticed. If blasting, Empowered.

Melee sorc without multiclass? Anyway i'll be happy to see your "build" meaning your class levels and spell list.

I'm looking to have a little of everything.... buffing healing blasting... control is less important. And a type of teleport is mandatory.

[Ritorix]

Yes I get what you are saying. Could you(or any other helping reader) suggest a spell list for say, a 7th level divine soul? And metamagic picks.

Btw I do not see myself taking spiritual guardians at all. It takes the squishy sorc to the mid-front. Bad idea.

Defense is the weakness of a single-classed divine soul. Because of that, I agree it's not an ideal chassis to build around spirit guardians. But they do have CON save proficiency, and it's easy to multiclass cleric or hexblade for armor. Going that route, since you have CON save proficiency and access to shield/absorb, you can maintain concentration easier than a pure cleric.

If you want to stay single-classed, I've got a support-heavy DS build in my signature. Here's another quick one with a mixed focus on buffing and debuffing:

vhuman starting with 16cha/16dex/14con
feat: inspiring leader
asi: +2 charisma

at level 7:
twin meta + a meta of choice
1st level: absorb elements, healing word, mage armor, shield
2nd: aid (retrained from free divine spell), enhance ability, misty step
3rd: fireball
4th: choice of banishment/greater invis/poly

It has AC16 with mage armor, 21 with Shield. Has out-of-combat group buffs with the inspiring leader+aid combo, and enhance ability as a noncombat swiss army knife. Doesn't want to be in melee, but also doesn't lean too heavily on concentration (no warcaster/haste).

In combat, it's aggressive. Starts at early levels with bane. Bane makes your AC effectively 17-20 vs baned targets. I'm a fan of bane+blindness for the double-debuff whammy. But this is level 7, and by now you swap out bane as better uses for concentration come online. That could be slow or fireball. If your group is heavy on GWM/sharpshooters, take Slow and Greater Invis (slow for normal fights, invis for boss fights); else take Fireball and Banishment. Poly is also awesome.

Still has the basic support of twinned healing word if necessary, and both the reaction defense spells. Would take counterspell at 8. The other meta slot is open, I would probably take extend to do long rest shenanigans with mage armor and aid.

[Houster]

Defense is the weakness of a single-classed divine soul. Because of that, I agree it's not an ideal chassis to build around spirit guardians. But they do have CON save proficiency, and it's easy to multiclass cleric or hexblade for armor. Going that route, since you have CON save proficiency and access to shield/absorb, you can maintain concentration easier than a pure cleric.

If you want to stay single-classed, I've got a support-heavy DS build in my signature. Here's another quick one with a mixed focus on buffing and debuffing:

vhuman starting with 16cha/16dex/14con
feat: inspiring leader
asi: +2 charisma

at level 7:
twin meta + a meta of choice
1st level: absorb elements, healing word, mage armor, shield
2nd: aid (retrained from free divine spell), enhance ability, misty step
3rd: fireball
4th: choice of banishment/greater invis/poly

It has AC16 with mage armor, 21 with Shield. Has out-of-combat group buffs with the inspiring leader+aid combo, and enhance ability as a noncombat swiss army knife. Doesn't want to be in melee, but also doesn't lean too heavily on concentration (no warcaster/haste).

In combat, it's aggressive. Starts at early levels with bane. Bane makes your AC effectively 17-20 vs baned targets. I'm a fan of bane+blindness for the double-debuff whammy. But this is level 7, and by now you swap out bane as better uses for concentration come online. That could be slow or fireball. If your group is heavy on GWM/sharpshooters, take Slow and Greater Invis (slow for normal fights, invis for boss fights); else take Fireball and Banishment. Poly is also awesome.

Still has the basic support of twinned healing word if necessary, and both the reaction defense spells. Would take counterspell at 8. The other meta slot is open, I would probably take extend to do long rest shenanigans with mage armor and aid.


Thanks for the reply... Enhance ability is one that I have never considered. You think absorb elements is mandatory? Took a wizard too 8th level without it and survived really well...

Tell you what. At lvl 7 I'd pick-
Meta- twin+quicken
Lvl1- Healing word, shield, guiding bolt
Lvl2- misty step, levitate
Lvl3- revivify, counterspell, slow
Lvl4- polymorph

What I really like and do not have room for-
Sanctuary, beacon of hope, deathward, fireball, speak with dead, lesser restoration,fly, featherfall, calm emotions(a really underestimated spell, it's wonderful), see invisibilty, silence.

Took quicken for the twinned firebolt+guiding bolt combo, and just for defence- quickening a spell and taking the dodge/disengage action sounds really solid when you need it.
Extended is missing here for sure


Can't really decide about the spells.

[RogueJK]

You'll want to pick up Bless, probably from your "free" Divine Soul spell. It's one of the best ways to spend you Concentration, especially at lower levels, and remains useful at higher levels for fights when you aren't using another specific Concentration spell.

Twinned Haste is an awesome buff option. I'd strongly consider swapping out a spell for that, especially if nobody else in the party can caste Haste.

I'd also strongly consider finding room for Spiritual Weapon. It's a great use of your Bonus Action, and it doesn't require Concentration. You won't have enough Spell Points to be constantly Quickening spells, so your Bonus Action will frequently be unused.

[Houster]

You'll want to pick up Bless, probably from your "free" Divine Soul spell. It's one of the best ways to spend you Concentration, especially at lower levels, and remains useful at higher levels for fights when you aren't using another specific Concentration spell.

Twinned Haste is an awesome buff option, especially if nobody else in the party can caste Haste. I'd strongly consider swapping out a spell for that.

I'd also strongly consider finding room for Spiritual Weapon. It's a great use of your Bonus Action, and it doesn't require Concentration. You won't have enough Spell Points to be constantly Quickening spells, so your Bonus Action will frequently be unused.

Yeah bless is really missing. You are right. Twinned haste scares me- if I lose concentration- I have 2 friends without actions for a round. Could mean death. Pushing extra damage for a 2nd level spell slot and an entire spell choice does not excite me(quickened has more uses than just damage)... It is an optimized choice for sure though.

[RogueJK]

For spell that you want but are only situationally useful, like Speak With Dead, Lesser Restoration, or See Invisibility, try to get some scrolls to carry with you.

[RogueJK]

An option to consider is dipping 1 level in Cleric. This allows you to get armor and shield proficiency, a handy 1st level subclass ability, and frees up some of your Sorcerer spells known by allowing you to choose stuff like Healing Word, Bless, and Protection from Good/Evil as Cleric spells that you prepare. You can then devote more of your Sorcerer spells known to stuff like Fireball and Calm Emotions.

You'll be a level behind in Sorcerer spells known (so Polymorph would have to wait until Character Level 8), but you'd still have the same number of overall spell slots (so could use 4th level slots for upcasting at 7th Level), and you'd have a greater number of overall spells to choose from throughout the day and have a little more flexibility in choosing Sorcerer spells known.

It only requires a 13/14 WIS, since you will be choosing Cleric cantrips/spells that don't rely on attack rolls or saves.

[Houster]

An option to consider is dipping 1 level in Cleric. This allows you to get armor and shield proficiency, a handy 1st level subclass ability, and frees up some of your Sorcerer spells known by allowing you to choose stuff like Healing Word, Bless, and Protection from Good/Evil as Cleric spells that you prepare. You can then devote more of your Sorcerer spells known to stuff like Fireball and Calm Emotions.

You'll be a level behind in Sorcerer spells known (so Polymorph would have to wait until Character Level 8), but you'd still have the same number of overall spell slots (so could use 4th level slots for upcasting at 7th Level), and you'd have a greater number of overall spells to choose from throughout the day and have a little more flexibility in choosing Sorcerer spells known.

It only requires a 13/14 WIS, since you will be choosing Cleric cantrips/spells that don't rely on attack rolls or saves.

Good idea... less spellpower more versatility. I'll check out the domains to see what goes best with this.

Edit: come to think of it, the clr spellsI like are ability dependent(guiding bolt, healing word, sanctuary) so this is not that useful right? Those will key off my wis not my cha.

[Ritorix]

Thanks for the reply... Enhance ability is one that I have never considered. You think absorb elements is mandatory? Took a wizard too 8th level without it and survived really well...

Tell you what. At lvl 7 I'd pick-
Meta- twin+quicken
Lvl1- Healing word, shield, guiding bolt
Lvl2- misty step, levitate
Lvl3- revivify, counterspell, slow
Lvl4- polymorph

What I really like and do not have room for-
Sanctuary, beacon of hope, deathward, fireball, speak with dead, lesser restoration,fly, featherfall, calm emotions(a really underestimated spell, it's wonderful), see invisibilty, silence.

Took quicken for the twinned firebolt+guiding bolt combo, and just for defence- quickening a spell and taking the dodge/disengage action sounds really solid when you need it.
Extended is missing here for sure


Can't really decide about the spells.

Absorb isn't mandatory, but it's very nice to have. At higher levels elemental damage becomes more of an issue. If you eat a 40-damage dragon breath, absorb can halve it to 20, resulting in a normal DC10 concentration check. In my current campaign, the first fireball was thrown at us at level 3 - a published campaign, too.

It sounds like you are all over the place in what you want, sorcs in general need to have a very good idea of what they will be doing. Even plan out your turns like this for example:

Normal fight
Round 1: Slow
Round 2: Fireball/cantrip nuke
Contingencies: healing word, shield, absorb elements, counterspell

Boss fight
Round 1: twin Greater Invis (gwm fighter + sharpshooter ranger)
Round 2: Guiding Bolt/cantrips

So now you know: Of your 7 sorcery points, you need to save 4 for the boss fight, and your 4th-level slot. That leaves you 3 sorc points. That is one quicken and 1 twinned healing word, or 2 extended spells (mage armor/aid) and a twinned healing word, etc. But it also means you won't have room to do all that and twin a 3rd-level spell on top of the 4th-level, unless you start converting slots to sorc points (inefficient; dont do that).

[RogueJK]

Good idea... less spellpower more versatility. I'll check out the domains to see what goes best with this.

Mechanically, good choices could be:

Life (Heavy Armor that may or may not be useful, domain spells you'd be preparing anyway, and a little boost to your healing)

Arcana (extra skill, bonus Wizard utility cantrips, Detect Magic ritual, and Magic Missile that doesn't care that your WIS is only 13ish)

Knowledge (proficiency/expertise in two knowledge skills, Identify ritual)

Order (heavy armor that may be useful, handy Heroism domain spell buff, Voice of Authority means extra attacks when you buff allies with things like Bless or Twinned Protection from Good/Evil or even Twinned Polymorph and Twinned Greater Invisibility at higher levels)

Unity/Peace (non-Concentration quasi-Bless, two useful domain spell buffs)

[RogueJK]

Edit: come to think of it, the clr spellsI like are ability dependent(guiding bolt, healing word, sanctuary) so this is not that useful right? Those will key off my wis not my cha.

Guiding Bolt and Sanctuary wouldn't be good choices for Cleric spells prepared with only a 13ish WIS, but stuff like Bless, Detect Magic, Shield of Faith, and Protection From Good/Evil are great Cleric spells don't care about your middling WIS. And a number of the abovementioned Cleric domains have further domain spells that still useful with only a 13ish WIS, like Magic Missile, Identify, or Heroism (more for Fear Immunity/Removal than the WIS-based temp HP).

You can take Guiding Bolt and/or Sanctuary as Sorcerer spells known if you want to use them with your higher CHA.

Healing Word is mildly tied to WIS, but for what it's primarily used for, it doesn't matter that you're giving them 4 vs. 6 HP. You get them up from being unconscious, period. And if you take Life Domain specifically, you get a boost to Healing Word that makes up for casting it with a 13/14 WIS vs. 18/20 CHA.



Another option for freeing up your spells known without dipping Cleric is taking the new Fey Touched feat from Tasha's. It gets you +1 CHA, the Misty Step spell known, and your choice of a 1st level Divination/Enchantment spell known. So you could get Misty Step and Bless through that, and free up two Sorcerer spells known to choose alternates like Fireball and Calm Emotions. Plus you'd have one free casting each of Misty Step and Bless each day.

[RSP]

Melee sorc without multiclass? Anyway i'll be happy to see your "build" meaning your class levels and spell list.

I'm looking to have a little of everything.... buffing healing blasting... control is less important. And a type of teleport is mandatory.

Just my opinion, but Sorc isn’t the class for “a little bit of everything.” They really need to line up their limited spell choices with their metamagic selections.

For instance, Subtle is a great ability, but really only comes into play if you’re doing social encounters where not letting on that your casting is important. If that’s how you foresee playing, then you’ll want spells for those situations to be in your arsenal of 7 spells known at level 5 (Detect Thoughts, Enhance Ability, Guidance, Suggestion, Zone of Truth, for instance); and still probably need Mage Armor and Shield (and later AE). Adding in your teleport of Misty Step, and that’s your Seven spells known.

Obviously, you can cut out defensive spells or ones from the Subtle list, like to make room for Twin spells, or for Fireball (or whatever); but the point remains that you’re much better off focusing on an area or two, and have those areas coincide with your Meta Magic selections and lining those up with spells known.

Again, at level 5, if taking MS for teleporting, and Shield and MA for surviving, that’s 2 spells per Metamagic pick left over; no room for “a little bit of everything” options. Unfortunately, it doesn’t get much better as you level in terms of limited spells known.

[RSP]

Good idea... less spellpower more versatility. I'll check out the domains to see what goes best with this.

Edit: come to think of it, the clr spellsI like are ability dependent(guiding bolt, healing word, sanctuary) so this is not that useful right? Those will key off my wis not my cha.

Only if Cast off a scroll and you don’t know the spell yourself; any DS spells selected as a spell known key off Cha.

[Houster]

Guiding Bolt and Sanctuary wouldn't be good choices for Cleric spells prepared with only a 13ish WIS, but stuff like Bless, Detect Magic, Shield of Faith, and Protection From Good/Evil are great Cleric spells don't care about your middling WIS. And a number of the abovementioned Cleric domains have further domain spells that still useful with only a 13ish WIS, like Magic Missile, Identify, or Heroism (more for Fear Immunity/Removal than the WIS-based temp HP).

You can take Guiding Bolt and/or Sanctuary as Sorcerer spells known if you want to use them with your higher CHA.

Healing Word is mildly tied to WIS, but for what it's primarily used for, it doesn't matter that you're giving them 4 vs. 6 HP. You get them up from being unconscious, period. And if you take Life Domain specifically, you get a boost to Healing Word that makes up for casting it with a 13/14 WIS vs. 18/20 CHA.



Another option for freeing up your spells known without dipping Cleric is taking the new Fey Touched feat from Tasha's. It gets you +1 CHA, the Misty Step spell known, and your choice of a 1st level Divination/Enchantment spell known. So you could get Misty Step and Bless through that, and free up two Sorcerer spells known to choose alternates like Fireball and Calm Emotions. Plus you'd have one free casting each of Misty Step and Bless each day.

When it is official I think this will be a feat I will take with a ton characters. It's huge.
Definitively one i'll grab with this char.

[MrStabby]

So a rough sketch of what I would pick at level 10. I don't break down by level as there isn't much I would look to swap around on level up.

1)
Shield. With d6HD and the importance of concentration it kind of feels mandatory
Bless. This gives you something effective to contribute in any fight regardless of saves or immunities or even being out of high level spells.
Command. Awesome spell. Scales really well when upcast. Gives you control without interfereing with your concentration.

2)
Web. Cheap area of effect control.
Spiritual Weapon. Solid use of bonus action and a nod to occasionally doing damage
Prayer of healing. Token healing spell, but very efficient.

3)
Counterspell. Awesome in the right campaign.
Hypnotic Pattern. Some immunity to this but such a good spell

4)
Banishment. An increadibly potent use of concentration. Upcasts awesomely.
Polymorph. So versitile, can be used to solve so many fights/problems

5)
Animate objects

My view is that the benefits of Divine Soul and the cleric list are around letting you shift away from damage - damage takes a lot of spells known to keep up past differnt numbers of combatants and resistances. By letting other party members take on that task you can keep your versatility in what you can handle but with more of a buff/control theme.

I kept healing lower in the list simply because so many other classes with more spells known can cover it - druid, cleric, paladin, bard. Prayer of healing covers a bit of a different role and the party might benefit from an occasional HP top-up. I didn't put on healing word simply because the level 1 spells are pretty congested.

One issue with the list is the high number of concentration spells, which leads to a bit more promenance being given to spells like spiritual weapon and command.

[Throne12]

So if UA is allowed spend to feats on spell sniper for EB then the other feat on UA Eldritch Adept to pick up Agonizing Blast invocation. Now you have your main damage covered. So you can focuse on getting more healing, buff, and debuff spells. Spells i like are
1st: command, healing word, inflict wounds, shield
2nd: Aid, blind/deafness, hold person, lessor restoration, prayer of healing, spiritual weapon, warding bond, dragons breath.
3rd revivify, spirt guardian's, haste, fly, catnap, counterspell.
4th: Death Ward, polymorph, charm monster, greater inv,
5th: contagion, greater restoration, hold monster, mass cure wounds, creation, dominant person, skill empowerment, teleportataion circle, wall of stone.

I'm stopping here because it already most the highest level most campaigns get to. These are some spells I look at for my divine soul sorcerer. I then focus on charisma and con. Then dex because I trying to keep from the dangers areas as much as possible so I'm not too worried about AC.

[RSP]

So a rough sketch of what I would pick at level 10. I don't break down by level as there isn't much I would look to swap around on level up.

1)
Shield. With d6HD and the importance of concentration it kind of feels mandatory
Bless. This gives you something effective to contribute in any fight regardless of saves or immunities or even being out of high level spells.
Command. Awesome spell. Scales really well when upcast. Gives you control without interfereing with your concentration.


Just curious, why no Mage Armor? Shield is much more effective if you’re working with an AC already 3 points higher. In fact, I’d probably say MA is the more effective defense spell between the two.

[MrStabby]

Just curious, why no Mage Armor? Shield is much more effective if you’re working with an AC already 3 points higher. In fact, I’d probably say MA is the more effective defense spell between the two.

Oh yeah, so I missed out a big chunk here.

Basically the comment was around the flexability from Tasha's character building where you can pick up armour proficiency from your race. As its a) optional and b) not released yet I should have treated it as more controversial. In the same manner I missed off feats I kind of assumed I would also take (mainly tasha's fey touched).

I would add that the build is not some booming blade affair that needs to get in close and does sport a large number of spells to keep enemies out of the back lines so whilst any character inevitably will take some damage, it shouldn't be excessive if you play smart. I find saves are a bigger deal and mage armour doesnt help so much there.

My thinking is in part around the opportunity cost for mage armour. I look at the list and think about what I would have to give up for it. It would probably be prayer of healing - is a couple more points of AC for me worth giving that up for? Keeping the front line robust and able to tank fore me? I dont personally think it's worth it, but it depends on campaign style - if you face goblins doing most of their damage through weapon attacks (and if they are using ranged weapons) then mage armour is probably better. If your fear is the flameskull and its fireballs, then probably a decent party-wide heaming spell is good.

Again, some of this changes depending on what other spells party members have.

[RSP]

My thinking is in part around the opportunity cost for mage armour. I look at the list and think about what I would have to give up for it. It would probably be prayer of healing - is a couple more points of AC for me worth giving that up for? Keeping the front line robust and able to tank fore me? I dont personally think it's worth it, but it depends on campaign style - if you face goblins doing most of their damage through weapon attacks (and if they are using ranged weapons) then mage armour is probably better. If your fear is the flameskull and its fireballs, then probably a decent party-wide heaming spell is good.

Again, some of this changes depending on what other spells party members have.

Didn’t realize there was an Armor Prof option in Tasha’s.

If there is, and you can get it (I’m assuming it’s Light Armor Prof), that would probably be doable. If not, in theory, MA would be a better choice than Shield; simply going off 8 hours of +3 AC is better than 1 turn of +5 AC, particularly if your base is ~13 AC.

[Houster]

Didn’t realize there was an Armor Prof option in Tasha’s.

If there is, and you can get it (I’m assuming it’s Light Armor Prof), that would probably be doable. If not, in theory, MA would be a better choice than Shield; simply going off 8 hours of +3 AC is better than 1 turn of +5 AC, particularly if your base is ~13 AC.

As one who played a wizard without MA memorized but shield was- positioning is everything, shield helps a bit when you are targeted, and you use the spell slot when you need it. I spent many days not casting shield at all, so casting mage armor spending 1 slot everyday seems a waste and less protective than shield.

[MrStabby]

Didn’t realize there was an Armor Prof option in Tasha’s.

If there is, and you can get it (I’m assuming it’s Light Armor Prof), that would probably be doable. If not, in theory, MA would be a better choice than Shield; simply going off 8 hours of +3 AC is better than 1 turn of +5 AC, particularly if your base is ~13 AC.

So you can play a hobgoblin or a mountain dwarf to pick up the armour proficiency. Medium armour on a mountain dwarf is good, and you can have +2 Charisma and +2 Constitution as your racial stat bonuses (I believe - still waiting for the book).

This is pretty huge for sorcerers who feel the loss of that spell known.

[RSP]

As one who played a wizard without MA memorized but shield was- positioning is everything, shield helps a bit when you are targeted, and you use the spell slot when you need it. I spent many days not casting shield at all, so casting mage armor spending 1 slot everyday seems a waste and less protective than shield.

Tables vary in how successful keeping to the back line will be, for sure; but, statistically, I just don’t think +5 AC for 1 round makes sense over +3 for 8 hours, given equal resource expenditure.

Generally speaking, combining the two with a good Dex is how one typically avoids attacks as a Wiz or Sorc, and, particularly as one gets to higher levels and enemies with higher attack bonuses, I’d imagine either without the other becomes mostly meaningless.


So you can play a hobgoblin or a mountain dwarf to pick up the armour proficiency. Medium armour on a mountain dwarf is good, and you can have +2 Charisma and +2 Constitution as your racial stat bonuses (I believe - still waiting for the book).

This is pretty huge for sorcerers who feel the loss of that spell known.

Gotcha. I wasn’t thinking of pre-TCoE races with Armor Prof now being Wiz/Sorc friendly, but was (incorrectly) thinking there was a “now you can swap X for Armor Prof” option. I guess I should say hopefully I’m wrong about that. Either way, thanks for correcting me on that.

[samcifer]

A Divine Soul Sorcerer definitely wants the Twinned Metamagic.

Twinned Healing Word can pick up two downed allies using just one Bonus Action.

I actually used this during the last Wednesday group session on my sorlock when we had 2 downed pcs. The DM had to double-check to make sure I was doing it legally, but accepted that it was.

[Fryy]

IMHO...

Gets scrolls for: Lesser Restoration, Greater Restoration, Raise Dead, and Revivify

Healing Word, Heal and Aid are the only healing spells you will ever need
Aid can pick up 3 downed people as an action

Spirit Guardians - steps:
1 get medium armor and shield proficiency,
2 get war caster and/or resilient con,
3 quicken spirit guardians (always up-cast) and dodge,
4 hover 15' above the ground with your level 14 wings
5 continue to dodge

Here is a spell list that is close to 1/2 cleric and 1/2 sorcerer
1st Absorb Elements, Bless (c), Healing Word, Shield
2nd Aid, Misty Step
3rd Counter spell, Fireball, Slow (c), Spirit Guardians (c)
4th Death Ward
6th Chain Lightning, Heal
7th Reverse Gravity (c)
8th Holy Aura (c)
9th Wish

Swap out Bless for something else at higher levels as you will have other more fun spells on which to concentrate

[ff7hero]

Note that (RAW) DS Sorcerers can't cast Cleric spells they don't know from scrolls.

[Fryy]

Note that (RAW) DS Sorcerers can't cast Cleric spells they don't know from scrolls.

"Your link to the divine allows you to learn spells normally associated with the cleric class. When your Spellcasting feature lets you learn a sorcerer cantrip or a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose the new spell from the cleric spell list or the sorcerer spell list. You must otherwise obey all the restrictions for selecting the spell, and it becomes a sorcerer spell for you."

Well, if it becomes a sorcerer spell for you and you are a sorcerer, then it is on your class's spell list and you can read the scroll and cast the spell. Nowhere is it written that if you subsequently swap out a cleric spell that it stops being a sorcerer spell for you. So, I would argue that strictly by RAW you could learn lesser restoration, etc., swap it out, then buy/use lesser restoration scrolls as needed.

[ff7hero]

"Your link to the divine allows you to learn spells normally associated with the cleric class. When your Spellcasting feature lets you learn a sorcerer cantrip or a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose the new spell from the cleric spell list or the sorcerer spell list. You must otherwise obey all the restrictions for selecting the spell, and it becomes a sorcerer spell for you."

Well, if it becomes a sorcerer spell for you and you are a sorcerer, then it is on your class's spell list and you can read the scroll and cast the spell. Nowhere is it written that if you subsequently swap out a cleric spell that it stops being a sorcerer spell for you. So, I would argue that strictly by RAW you could learn lesser restoration, etc., swap it out, then buy/use lesser restoration scrolls as needed.

Yeah, ok, that seems to work. It's a lot easier with the (assumed?) class feature variants in TCoE too.

[Houster]

IMHO...

Gets scrolls for: Lesser Restoration, Greater Restoration, Raise Dead, and Revivify

Healing Word, Heal and Aid are the only healing spells you will ever need
Aid can pick up 3 downed people as an action

Spirit Guardians - steps:
1 get medium armor and shield proficiency,
2 get war caster and/or resilient con,
3 quicken spirit guardians (always up-cast) and dodge,
4 hover 15' above the ground with your level 14 wings
5 continue to dodge

Here is a spell list that is close to 1/2 cleric and 1/2 sorcerer
1st Absorb Elements, Bless (c), Healing Word, Shield
2nd Aid, Misty Step
3rd Counter spell, Fireball, Slow (c), Spirit Guardians (c)
4th Death Ward
6th Chain Lightning, Heal
7th Reverse Gravity (c)
8th Holy Aura (c)
9th Wish

Swap out Bless for something else at higher levels as you will have other more fun spells on which to concentrate

Wow I never thought to cast aid that way!
Can you cast multiple aid spells on a creature?
I mean if said 3 guys are downed again, will this trick work next round?

[Arial Black]

At the level you write about you have 11 spells. You list 4 spells in the section quoted above, you list more in a quote down bellow. I would be interested in seeing your spell list, if you wouldn't mind sharing. The OP certainly has asked for a list.

Protector aasimar.

Feats: Ritual Caster, Diplomat.

Magic Items: Cloak of Protection, Helm of Telepathy, Periapt of Wound Closure

Spells known at 10th:-

cantrips: guidance, light, prestidigitation, resistance, sacred flame, shocking grasp
1st: absorb elements, mage armour, shield
2nd: mirror image, spiritual weapon
3rd: counterspell, hypnotic pattern, spirit guardians
4th: dimension door, polymorph
5th: animate objects, synaptic static

From Helm: detect thoughts at will, suggestion 1/day

From Ritual Caster: comprehend languages, detect magic, find familiar, leomund's tiny hut, phantom steed, water breathing

Spells that were replaced during level ups: cure wounds, healing word, web, sleet storm, misty step, thunder step

Metamagic: Distant, Heightened, Quickened

Notes: combine shocking grasp with Distant against opponents in metal armour, use spiritual weapon every round where you don't use your bonus action for something else, for defence a combination of flying, mage armour, shield and mirror image, spirit guardians along with your party acting as meat shields means you can get close with relative safety, animate 10 silver coins for 10d4+40 damage per round(!), polymorph a near-dead ally into a 157 hit point giant ape instead of wasting time on healing spells.

You can't do all these things at once, but you have a solution for most problems. Importantly, you have use for your bonus action every round (spiritual weapon, quickened spell) and a choice of reactions (absorb elements, shield, counterspell).

A single class cleric cannot do all these things, nor can a sorcerer unless they are a Divine Soul. This is only one possible list of spells known. You can choose what you want to do and then choose your spells known to enable that. I wanted a control-type caster who still had things to do even when control had been established, in a large party with plenty of melee types.