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Composer99
2020-11-09, 11:18 AM
So, I had an idea that ends up being a lot like the Psionic Talent Die, for barbarians. I believe the PTD wasn't well received, though, so I'd like to see what folks think.

Design Goal
The design goal is to give barbarian players who want additional mechanical complexity some tools to play with that fit the themes of the barbarian, but allow players who don't care to use those mechanical levers to benefit from the feature as well. The latter players reliably roll a die for extra damage, the former players can manipulate the die to cause other effects.

Rage Die
(This ability replaces the PHB barbarian's Rage Damage feature.)

Whenever you begin raging, you gain a Rage Die, a d6. Whenever you hit with a melee weapon attack using Strength, roll that die and add the number rolled to the damage of the attack. As you gain levels in this class, you gain additional capabilities that you can use with your Rage Die. Your Rage Die also increases in maximum size, becoming a d8 at 5th level, a d10 at 11th level, and a d12 at 17th level. Whenever you gain your Rage Die at the start of a rage, it is always at its maximum size.

When you hit with such an attack, you can choose to grapple or shove the target of your attack by reducing the size of the Die by one step - from a d6 to a d4, for instance. You reduce the size of the Die after rolling for the attack's damage. Instead of contesting the grapple or shove, the target makes its choice of a Strength or Dexterity saving throw, against a DC of 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier. If your Rage Die is a d4 and you use it in this way, you lose your Rage Die.

Your Rage Die increases in size by one step, up to its maximum size - from a d4 to a d6, for instance, whenever one of the following circumstances occurs:
- Whenever a creature hostile to you causes you to take damage equal to or greater than twice your proficiency bonus.
- Whenever you reduce a creature hostile to you to 0 hit points or kill it outright, as long as its CR is at least 1/4. The minimum CR increases as you gain levels in this class, as shown in the Rage Die table.
- Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee weapon attack. [This encourages Reckless Attack to fish for critical hits.]

If your Rage Die is lost when a triggering circumstance occurs, you regain it as a d4.



Barbarbian Level
Minimum Eligible CR


1st
1/4


3rd
1/2


5th
1


8th
2


11th and higher
3



Additional Things You Can Do


When you reach 3rd level in this class, you can choose two options from the list below whose prerequisites you meet. You choose two more options at 5th level, and again at 8th level and 11th level.

Feral Vigour. Requires 3rd level. At the start of any of your turns while you are raging, you can roll a Rage Die and gain temporary hit points equal to 2 + the number rolled, then reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step. These temporary hit points last until you stop raging.

Ferocious Defence. Requires 8th level. Whenever a creature within 5 feet of you targets you with an attack while you are raging, you can use your reaction to roll your Rage Die and add the number rolled to your AC for that attack. The attacking creature also takes damage, of a type identical to that of a weapon you are wielding, equal to the number rolled on the Rage Die. After doing so, reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step.

[I]Ferocious Mount. Requires 5th level. While raging, whenever you are mounted on another creature and could make a weapon attack, you can forgo making the attack to allow your mount to make an attack in its statblock. If your mount hits with this attack, it rolls your Rage Die and adds the number rolled to the damage of its attack. After doing so, reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step.

Focused Rage. Requires 8th level. Whenever you cause your Rage Die to become lost, you can use your reaction to regain it as a d6.

Frightful Blow. Requires 3rd level. When you hit with a melee weapon attack while raging, you can force the target of your attack to make a Wisdom saving throw, against a DC of 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier, or become frightened of you until the end of your next turn. After doing so, reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step.

Furious Reaction. Requires 5th level. After using your reaction to make a weapon attack, you can reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step to regain the use of your reaction. You can't use this option more than once per round.

Groundbreaker. Requires 11th level. While you are raging, as an action, you can smash the ground in front of you, creating a shockwave in a 30-foot cone. Roll your Rage Die. Each creature in the area must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw, against a DC of 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier, or take bludgeoning damage equal to the number rolled on the Die and fall prone. Terrain in the area becomes difficult terrain until cleared. It takes an action to clear a 5-foot patch of terrain affected by this feature. After using your action in this way, reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step.

Hordebreaker. Requires 5th level. At the start of any of your turns while you are raging, you can reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step. If you do so, creatures hostile to you don't benefit from any feature allowing them to deal extra damage to you as a result of other creatures hostile to you being within 5 feet of you until the start of your next turn or until you are no longer raging.

Raging Resilience. Requires 11th level. Whenever you make a saving throw, you can use your reaction to reroll the die, and must use the new roll, then roll your Rage Die and add the number rolled to the result of your rerolled saving throw. After doing so, reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step.

Skullcracker. Requires 3rd level. When you hit with a melee weapon attack while raging, after rolling for damage you can force the target of your attack to make a Constitution saving throw, against a DC of 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier, or lose the ability to take reactions until the start of your next turn. If you do so, reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step.

Spellbreaker. Requires 11th level. Whenever a creature within 5 feet of you uses its action to cast a spell while you are raging, you can use your reaction to attempt to disrupt the triggering creature's spellcasting. The triggering creature must make a spellcasting ability check against a DC of 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier. On a failed check, the spell fails to take effect, although the creature does not expend a spell slot or use of the spell. On a success, the creature casts the spell normally. After using your reaction in this way, reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step.

Tenacious Ferocity. Requires 8th level. Once on each of your turns while you are raging, when you miss with an attack roll, you can reroll the attack roll as long as your Rage Die isn't lost. You must use the new roll. Roll your Rage Die and add the number rolled to the result of your rerolled attack, then reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step.

Rage Die
(This ability replaces the PHB barbarian's Rage Damage feature.)

Whenever you begin raging, you gain a Rage Die, a d6. Whenever you hit with a melee weapon attack using Strength, roll that die and add the number rolled to the damage of the attack.

When you hit with such an attack, but before rolling for damage, you can choose to grapple or shove the target of your attack by reducing the size of the Die by one step - from a d6 to a d4, for instance. If your Rage Die is a d4 and you use it in this way, you lose your Rage Die.

Whenever a creature hostile to you causes you to take damage equal to or greater than twice your proficiency bonus, your Rage Die increases in size by one step, up to its maximum size - from a d4 to a d6, for instance. If your Rage Die is lost, you regain it as a d4.

As you gain levels in this class, you gain additional capabilities that you can use with your Rage Die. Your Rage Die also increases in maximum size, becoming a d8 at 5th level, a d10 at 11th level, and a d12 at 17th level. Whenever you gain your Rage Die at the start of a rage, it is always at its maximum size.

Additional Things You Can Do
[I haven't yet made up my mind whether you can just do these things or have to pick between them. Probably the former option, so barbarian players who don't want to deal with this stuff don't have to make the time and effort to pick options.]

[I]Feral Vigour. Requires 3rd level. At the start of any of your turns while you are raging, you can reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step, then roll the die and gain temporary hit points equal to 2 + the number rolled. These temporary hit points last until you stop raging.

Ferocious Defence. Requires 8th level. Whenever a creature within 5 feet of you targets you with an attack, you can reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step and use your reaction. If you do so, as long as your Rage Die is not lost, roll the Rage Die and add the number rolled to your AC for that attack. The creature also takes damage, of a type identical to that of a weapon you are wielding, equal to the number rolled on the Rage Die.

Ferocious Mount. Requires 5th level. While you are mounted on another creature and could make a weapon attack, you can forgo making the attack to allow your mount to make an attack in its statblock, reducing the size of your Rage Die by one step. Your mount then rolls your Rage Die and adds the number rolled to the damage of its attack.

Frightful Blow. Requires 3rd level. When you hit with a melee weapon attack, you can reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step to force the target of your attack to make a Wisdom saving throw, against a DC of 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier, or become frightened of you until the end of your next turn.

Groundbreaker. Requires 11th level. While you are raging, as an action, you can smash the ground in front of you, creating a shockwave in a 30-foot cone. Reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step. Each creature in the area must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw, against a DC of 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier, or take bludgeoning damage equal to the roll of the Rage Die (if it isn't lost) and fall prone. Terrain in the area becomes difficult terrain until cleared. It takes an action to clear a 5-foot patch of terrain affected by this feature.

Hordebreaker. Requires 5th level. At the start of any of your turns while you are raging, you can reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step. If you do so, creatures hostile to you don't benefit from any feature allowing them to deal extra damage to you as a result of other creatures hostile to you being within 5 feet of you until the start of your next turn or until you are no longer raging.

Spellbreaker. Requires 11th level. Whenever a creature within 5 feet of you uses its action to cast a spell while you are raging, you can reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step and use your reaction to attempt to disrupt the triggering creature's spellcasting. The triggering creature must make a spellcasting ability check against a DC of 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier. On a failed check, the spell fails to take effect, although the creature does not expend a spell slot or use of the spell. On a success, the creature casts the spell normally.

Tenacious Ferocity. Requires 8th level. While raging, when you miss with an attack roll, you can reduce your Rage Die by one step and reroll the attack roll. You must use the new roll. If your Rage Die is not lost, roll it and add the number rolled to the result of your rerolled attack.

Amechra
2020-11-09, 11:31 AM
Pour me a tall cup of this, please and thank you.

My only real issue: Is the damage that you need to take before you recover a die size before or after resistance? Because one of those is way easier to manage than the other.

Composer99
2020-11-09, 12:14 PM
Pour me a tall cup of this, please and thank you.

My only real issue: Is the damage that you need to take before you recover a die size before or after resistance? Because one of those is way easier to manage than the other.

Great question! I think as written, it would be after resistance applies, because it refers to the "damage you take", which due to resistance isn't going to be the same as the triggering creature's damage roll.

On the one hand, it's not hard to find monsters whose average damage per attack is high enough that they should trigger an increase in the die size most of the time. On the other hand, especially at low CRs, there are lots of creatures whose average damage won't do the trick if the effect is triggered by resistance. (Goblins, for instance, could only trigger the effect if you roll for damage and they roll maximum damage.)

So I think a few other ways to recharge a Rage Die would be good, and I think we want those ways to be reflective of what barbarians want to do.

How about when you reduce another creature to 0 hit points or kill it outright with a melee weapon attack, or when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon attack?

Dienekes
2020-11-10, 09:26 AM
Unless it breaks the math of the system in some way, I would have the player gain the benefit of the Rage Die and then reduce the size by 1. A small change that I think would feel a lot better for the player.

But other than that this looks pretty awesome.

Yakk
2020-11-11, 11:33 AM
Instead of "gain a size from taking damage", what about "gain a size by rolling the maximum value on it".

This makes it active, and not passive. And you don't suddenly get worse at gaining rage at level 5, 9, 13, and 17.

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Then include a 1d3 Rage die, and state it cannot be "consumed" at that size.

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Also, pay the price after you get the rider. It is a small balance impact, but big on feels.

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Have a name for "things you can do when you hit", and say you can use one of them on your turn.

On hit effects:

Push: (Strength save against DC is 8+Strength+Proficiency, enemy has a penalty equal to a roll of the Rage die, pushes 5+Rage die feet)
Grapple (until escape): (Strength or Dexterity save against DC is 8+Strength+Proficiency, enemy has a penalty equal to a roll of the Rage die)
Prone: (Strength save against DC is 8+Strength+Proficiency, enemy has a penalty equal to a roll of the Rage die)
Incapacitated (until start of their turn): (Constitution save against DC is 8+Strength+Proficiency, Rage die damage is doubled)
(incapacitated stops them from using reactions mostly)

Composer99
2020-11-11, 01:49 PM
Unless it breaks the math of the system in some way, I would have the player gain the benefit of the Rage Die and then reduce the size by 1. A small change that I think would feel a lot better for the player.

But other than that this looks pretty awesome.



Also, pay the price after you get the rider. It is a small balance impact, but big on feels.

After thinking about it, I agree: it feels better to roll the Rage Die and then change its size. I'll go back in and edit the OP.


Instead of "gain a size from taking damage", what about "gain a size by rolling the maximum value on it".

This makes it active, and not passive. And you don't suddenly get worse at gaining rage at level 5, 9, 13, and 17.

As per my reply to Amechra, I do think I'll add ways for the player to make the Rage Die bigger. I want those ways to tie thematically to "things barbarians want to do while raging". Killing their enemies and scoring big hits strike me as fitting that bill.

The scaling of the damage has two goals:
- Make burning through your Rage Die a meaningful choice, at least at lower levels when monsters tend to do less damage.
- Avoid the "bag of rats" problem, or some roughly similar problem.



Then include a 1d3 Rage die, and state it cannot be "consumed" at that size.

I don't care to add non-standard dice sizes, but at higher levels being a "perpetual rage" engine makes sense. Maybe at either 8th level (when this variant gets some abilities), or at 11th level (as a tie-in to the Relentless).

Something like: "At 11th level, your Rage Die can't be reduced to below a d4, and at 20th level, it can't be reduced below a d6".

So, after thinking about this some more while editing the OP, I don't think this works too well, because many options trigger off of weapon attacks - or even the start of your turn - and don't have an action cost. That means if there is no way to temporarily lose the Rage Die, you can keep spamming them. I'm not sure that's where I want this variant to go.



Have a name for "things you can do when you hit", and say you can use one of them on your turn.

On hit effects:

Push: (Strength save against DC is 8+Strength+Proficiency, enemy has a penalty equal to a roll of the Rage die, pushes 5+Rage die feet)
Grapple (until escape): (Strength or Dexterity save against DC is 8+Strength+Proficiency, enemy has a penalty equal to a roll of the Rage die)
Prone: (Strength save against DC is 8+Strength+Proficiency, enemy has a penalty equal to a roll of the Rage die)
Incapacitated (until start of their turn): (Constitution save against DC is 8+Strength+Proficiency, Rage die damage is doubled)
(incapacitated stops them from using reactions mostly)

Eh... I don't know if that's adding enough to make the change worthwhile. In particular, if a barbarian can only ever do one of these things on a turn, they will hardly ever have a hard choice to make about having their Rage Die for damage rolls, or expending it to do other stuff. (And especially since each die step change is only ±1 average damage.)

On the other hand, there's something to be said for reducing the number of die rolls overall (especially since we're adding a die roll with this Rage Die). At least for the grapple/shove effect, making it take effect because you hit, and then be resisted by an enemy saving throw, instead of you hitting and then shoving/grappling, requiring a contest, takes one die roll out of the process.

Also: I do like the "taking away reactions" option. It might be getting to a point where there are enough different options that players have to pick them just to avoid bloating their sheets.

Hitakoh
2020-11-12, 09:21 PM
Is the rage die applied on the already good rage bonus damage or does it replace it?

Also, getting 2 reaction is bonkers I think you should not do this:

Furious Reaction. Requires 5th level. After using your reaction to make a weapon attack, you can reduce the size of your Rage Die by one step to regain the use of your reaction. You can't use this option more than once per round.