Multiclassing and Cantrips

[MarkVIIIMarc]

This might be obvious but I don't see it on the spellcasting page of the handbook. Its probably there.

Let's say I'm a level 19 Bard who decides Pelor rocks and I get a level of Cleric becoming Bard 19, Cleric 1

This means the character now knows 4 Bard Cantrips from the 19 levels and 3 Cleric Cantrips from the 1 level of Cleric?

[Dork_Forge]

This might be obvious but I don't see it on the spellcasting page of the handbook. Its probably there.

Let's say I'm a level 19 Bard who decides Pelor rocks and I get a level of Cleric becoming Bard 19, Cleric 1

This means the character now knows 4 Bard Cantrips from the 19 levels and 3 Cleric Cantrips from the 1 level of Cleric?

Assuming that you don't take a Cleric subclass that gives you a cantrip then that's correct yes. Multiclassing casters tends to lead to a silly amount of cantrips very quickly.

[PhantomSoul]

Yupp, and perhaps even more sillily you have all of the cantrips and they're all cast with damage/potency and with DCs/attack_bonuses as if you'd spent every level in every class.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Yupp, and perhaps even more sillily you have all of the cantrips and they're all cast with damage/potency and with DCs/attack_bonuses as if you'd spent every level in every class.

One note:

Each cantrip uses the proficiency/scaling of the combined levels, but the original ability score. Which means you have two sets of separate DCs and attack bonuses unless both classes use the same ability score for spellcasting.

So if you cast sacred flame, it uses Wisdom. If you cast vicious mockery, it uses Charisma. Which dramatically weakens the attack cantrips from the secondary class or makes you substantially more MAD.

[PhantomSoul]

One note:

Each cantrip uses the proficiency/scaling of the combined levels, but the original ability score. Which means you have two sets of separate DCs and attack bonuses unless both classes use the same ability score for spellcasting.

So if you cast sacred flame, it uses Wisdom. If you cast vicious mockery, it uses Charisma. Which dramatically weakens the attack cantrips from the secondary class or makes you substantially more MAD.

That's why I specified levels (not having the maximal DC/bonus), yeah. And if you pick classes using the same stat (e.g. sorcerer + warlock) or if you pick up a class to get cantrips (e.g. paladin + warlock), even that potential downside disappears.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I might grab Toll the Dead, a damage cantrip for a Bard would be a special thing but by that level a DC16 saving throw isn't particularly great.

It fits in with the general audio theme of Bard damage though.

Toll the Dead
Dissonant Whispers
Thunderwave
Shatter

Thurmaturgy, Spare the Dying and maybe Mending are on the list. Mending would be in character but maybe not that useful. Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Message and Viscous Mockery are my Bard cantrips.

[PhantomSoul]

I might grab Toll the Dead, a damage cantrip for a Bard would be a special thing but by that level a DC16 saving throw isn't particularly great.

It fits in with the general audio theme of Bard damage though.

Toll the Dead
Dissonant Whispers
Thunderwave
Shatter

Thurmaturgy, Spare the Dying and maybe Mending are on the list. Mending would be in character but maybe not that useful. Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Message and Viscous Mockery are my Bard cantrips.

Toll the Dead is good for giving you a pure-damage option, but one thing to consider beyond just the DC is that it's a Wisdom Saving Throw... just like Vicious Mockery. It may be worth diversifying that slightly if you can -- target AC (if you don't have weapons or other cantrips that will) or a different saving throw if you can, that way high-Wisdom (or high-Wisdom-Saving-Throw) opponents don't block both of your damage cantrips. DC 16 still isn't bad, but diversifying either the effects (e.g. to get secondary benefits like heal-blocking or speed reduction) or how it penetrates a target's defenses could be a good consideration.

That said, if it's for fluff, go with it for fluff! But you might find yourself able to fluff another spell. (Word of Radiance is easily fluffed, but that has a very different range than you might be going for.)

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Toll the Dead is good for giving you a pure-damage option, but one thing to consider beyond just the DC is that it's a Wisdom Saving Throw... just like Vicious Mockery. It may be worth diversifying that slightly if you can -- target AC (if you don't have weapons or other cantrips that will) or a different saving throw if you can, that way high-Wisdom (or high-Wisdom-Saving-Throw) opponents don't block both of your damage cantrips. DC 16 still isn't bad, but diversifying either the effects (e.g. to get secondary benefits like heal-blocking or speed reduction) or how it penetrates a target's defenses could be a good consideration.

That said, if it's for fluff, go with it for fluff! But you might find yourself able to fluff another spell. (Word of Radiance is easily fluffed, but that has a very different range than you might be going for.)

VERY true. Avoiding all Wisdom saves for a Bard is important. My character despises being in melee. Go Sacred Flame for optimization. Dex save, can be used at range or close by. How does that fit the character concept though....

EDIT: My Bard has an ongoing gag about praying to Pelor after a couple years ago when the DM used Pelor to teleport us across world after completing a quest. Pelor is kind of a sun god. That's fire or a sacred flame, right?

[PhantomSoul]

VERY true. Avoiding all Wisdom saves for a Bard is important. My character despises being in melee. Go Sacred Flame for optimization. Dex save, can be used at range or close by. How does that fit the character concept though....

EDIT: My Bard has an ongoing gag about praying to Pelor after a couple years ago when the DM used Pelor to teleport us across world after completing a quest. Pelor is kind of a sun god. That's fire or a sacred flame, right?

That sounds like a great justification/fluff to motivate sacred flame... and it originating from somewhere other than yourself (hence cover ignored) is even better given the teleportation aspect!