What happens breeding a dragon and an half-dragon?

[Conradine]

What would be a three quarter dragon?

And, if the result is fertile, subsequent crossbreeds with dragon? Like, a red dragon that has an human ancestor?

[Doctor Despair]

Could be a dragon with the human heritage feat.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Could be a dragon with the human heritage feat.While I agree with that, there're apparently quite a few people who don't, since "dragon" isn't a "human-descended race."

But considering how often interbreeding and genetic experiments happen in D&D, practically anything could take Human Heritage and be perfectly logical.

...for a given value of "logical," given that genetics don't work anything like that. But then again, magic!

[Gnaeus]

I would certainly think the result would be fertile, since dragons can crossbreed with almost anything and produce fertile offspring, thus the Draconic template, or sorcerers. It would be odd if the only thing that can’t procreate with a dragon is a half dragon.

I’d call the result a dragon. Maybe with an appropriate template.

[Xervous]

I’d skew more towards a bestial were-dragon sort of appearance. Half dragons are notably bipedal, have no issues walking upright and all depictions I can recall put them as plantigrade except when the non dragon parent is otherwise. To me this all implies that the weaker bloodline has a big say in things. Mixing in another portion of dragon will skew it more towards the standard, but that demihuman influence is still going to be pretty obvious.

[Biggus]

Pretty sure I read somewhere that if a half-race breeds with one of its parent races, it's just treated as a member of the race it's three-quarters of. Will have a look and see if I can find a reference.

[Troacctid]

You just apply the half-dragon template to the offspring twice!

It makes sense. You're half-dragon, and the other half—the base creature—is also half-dragon. Ain't no rule says you can't be a half-dragon half-dragon. Since bonuses from the same source don't stack, a second instance of the template is almost entirely redundant except that you now have 2 breath weapons per day instead of 1.

[KoDT69]

I'd say if both halves are the same breed/color, then it would result in a 3/4 Dragon, being +50% more size, ability bonuses, breath weapon damage, etc. If both halves are different colors, then the ability score bonuses would double, and you'd have 2 breath weapons. I know somebody will feel the need to point out the *same* template is redundant and not stacking, but
Half red dragon is NOT Half black dragon

[CIDE]

Pretty sure I read somewhere that if a half-race breeds with one of its parent races, it's just treated as a member of the race it's three-quarters of. Will have a look and see if I can find a reference.

I remember that too but I think it was in one of the third party books. The one with the half-titan (Bastards and bloodlines, I think?).

[Jay R]

Well, see, when a mommy dragon and a daddy half-dragon love each other very, very much, ...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Well, see, when a mommy dragon and a daddy half-dragon love each other very, very much, ...Or two mommy dragons, or two daddy dragons...

...Look, shapeshifting shenanigans get really complicated really fast.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

So if you had a Human Half-Dragon and a Dragon making another offspring, I'd say it's either a Human with Half-Dragon applied twice (if two different dragon varieties), or a true dragon with no human traits (if both are the same dragon variety).

But realistically it depends on the chromosome contribution of the half-dragon parent. Each parent contributes 50% of each chromosome pair. A human and a dragon make a true half-dragon offspring because 100% of the human parent's contribution is human chromosomes and 100% of the dragon's contribution is dragon chromosomes. When one parent is a half-race, the chromosomes they contribute could be only 25% dragon or non-dragon for a given child.

There was a similar discussion a while back about two half-dragons making offspring: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?614937-Half-dragon-half-dragon-do-they-breed-true#6

[Shirow]

You just apply the half-dragon template to the offspring twice!

It makes sense. You're half-dragon, and the other half—the base creature—is also half-dragon. Ain't no rule says you can't be a half-dragon half-dragon. Since bonuses from the same source don't stack, a second instance of the template is almost entirely redundant except that you now have 2 breath weapons per day instead of 1.

This rings true. But I can only quote from my head "bonuses of the same type don't stack."

And since the epigenetics of the matter have been brought into question, it would be very plausible for a certain combination of genes to express some characteristic twice or at least x1.5. If it is present in both parents. (I'm not a biologist though, just saying from YouTube videos.:smallbiggrin:)

I had considered for two true dragons of different colors to mate, but this half dragon thing is also a pretty tasty thought experiment.

Perhaps a percentile table would be cool.

d%
1-25 human w/dragon heritage or bloodline
26-50 half dragon bipedal
51-75 dragon looking thing with fur and a human face and stuff, maybe an extra feat
76-100 dragon w/human heritage or bloodline

Hm, also, this is pretty much what human mixed families' offspring are like ime.

[noob]

It would make an half dragon dragon because dnd is total nonsense.
Then the half dragon dragon would decide its calling in life is to be a bard and train in bardic traditions which they would fail at due to crippling level adjustement thus making half dragon half dragon dragons impossible because no half dragon dragon becomes bards.

[The Random NPC]

You just apply the half-dragon template to the offspring twice!

It makes sense. You're half-dragon, and the other half—the base creature—is also half-dragon. Ain't no rule says you can't be a half-dragon half-dragon. Since bonuses from the same source don't stack, a second instance of the template is almost entirely redundant except that you now have 2 breath weapons per day instead of 1.

According to the sidebar in Savage Species pg. 142, when you apply multiple half templates, they get called quarter-whatever. So if you wanted a half-dragon, half-fiend, half-celestial, half-fey, half-troll dwarf, it would become a quarter-dragon, quarter-fiend, quarter-celestial, quarter-fey, quarter-troll dwarf.

[noob]

According to the sidebar in Savage Species pg. 142, when you apply multiple half templates, they get called quarter-whatever. So if you wanted a half-dragon, half-fiend, half-celestial, half-fey, half-troll dwarf, it would become a quarter-dragon, quarter-fiend, quarter-celestial, quarter-fey, quarter-troll dwarf.

So it is -1/4 dwarf to fit all the quarters?

[Ruethgar]

Half Dragon is one of those halves(Elves are the other I can think of off hand) called out as being able to crop up spontaneously. You might have had a dragon ancestor ten thousand years back and you parents, grandparents, great grandparents and great great grandparents were all 100% human mechanically but you got the half dragon template.

Think sort of how Daenerys Targaryen‘s child came out. As described, it sounded a whole hell of a lot like a half dragon despite no recent relations having had contact with dragons.

With that in mind, any range of added templates could be in order. Half-Dragon Draconic Dragonspawn Silverbrow Human with a Major Dragon Bloodline could be an option or any mix there-of.

The form taken for the birth could also influence the outcome, a mother dragon giving birth to a clutch as an elf maiden may only have one child with all the concentrated blood of the dragon in them as above, or their form might dilute them into a mere draconic offspring. While having a clutch as a dragon might result in a flat -2 to all stats for all the children in the eggs for the inferior blood but otherwise regular true dragons.

The draconic lineage also matters. A Steel Dragon can simply choose to pass on only it’s shapeshifted DNA resulting in no draconic blood whatsoever, however they are the only ones I recall being able to do this.

[The Random NPC]

So it is -1/4 dwarf to fit all the quarters?

Nah, you'd just be 5 quarters, because magic.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

So it is -1/4 dwarf to fit all the quarters?They are known for using warhammers. Would that make them quarter-pounders?

[noob]

Nah, you'd just be 5 quarters, because magic.

The error you made is that in fact the character would be 9 quarters due to being fully dwarf in addition to all the quarters.

[Wildstag]

You just apply the half-dragon template to the offspring twice!

It makes sense. You're half-dragon, and the other half—the base creature—is also half-dragon. Ain't no rule says you can't be a half-dragon half-dragon. Since bonuses from the same source don't stack, a second instance of the template is almost entirely redundant except that you now have 2 breath weapons per day instead of 1.

Races of the Dragon page 72 states under the Nonhumanoid Half-Dragons header:


Since the half-dragon template can apply to any living creature type other than dragons, a nearly limitless variety of possible half-dragons exist.

I'm trying to find another source that confirms this, but as I read it, a Dragon mating with a Half-Dragon just makes a Dragon, since the child can't inherit the Half-Dragon template.

[Remuko]

Races of the Dragon page 72 states under the Nonhumanoid Half-Dragons header:



I'm trying to find another source that confirms this, but as I read it, a Dragon mating with a Half-Dragon just makes a Dragon, since the child can't inherit the Half-Dragon template.

afaik the monster manual (and also in the SRD) is the primary source for the Half Dragon Template and it just says any living corporeal creature. No mention of dragons not being an option.

[Wildstag]

afaik the monster manual (and also in the SRD) is the primary source for the Half Dragon Template and it just says any living corporeal creature. No mention of dragons not being an option.

As the Spell Compendium proves, a later print of a thing supersedes the earlier printing. Thus, the Races of the Dragon and its Draconic Creature Class overrules things about the previously printed Half-Dragon template in the MM1.

And since SRD is not the only thing we deal in here (for which see the many prcs NOT in the SRD that the Iron Chef thread cooks with), limitations of the SRD are not equal to the practical application of rules in game.

I don't like being fun police, but Half-Dragon was changed later on down the line while still being the Half-Dragon template. As such, the later rules should apply here, even if they do not appear in a standard stat-block.

[Troacctid]

The racial class in RDr has you start as a draconic creature and then grow into a half-dragon, and the draconic creature template is limited to nondragons. So I bet that's why.