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H_H_F_F
2020-11-11, 08:32 AM
A prc or class that casts paladin spells but is open to evil beings? Or anything else like that?

daremetoidareyo
2020-11-11, 08:32 AM
Archivist? Chameleon?

H_H_F_F
2020-11-11, 09:17 AM
Would that work with Battle Blessing?

daremetoidareyo
2020-11-11, 09:48 AM
Would that work with Battle Blessing?

Maybe if you go prestige paladin from archivist.

lylsyly
2020-11-11, 10:00 AM
A prc or class that casts paladin spells but is open to evil beings? Or anything else like that?

Paladins of Slaughter and Tyranny from the SRD (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny)

Gruftzwerg
2020-11-11, 10:16 AM
Paladins of Slaughter and Tyranny from the SRD (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny)

Note that these have slightly different Spelllists and don't profit from Splattbooks (unless you have a generous DM).

the_tick_rules
2020-11-11, 11:50 AM
don't ur-priests steal divine spells?

Xervous
2020-11-11, 12:05 PM
don't ur-priests steal divine spells?

Mostly flavor. They just get cleric casting.

denthor
2020-11-11, 12:09 PM
Multi class to cleric

Biggus
2020-11-11, 01:33 PM
Note that these have slightly different Spelllists and don't profit from Splattbooks (unless you have a generous DM).

I'd consider it a pretty lousy DM who let you take a non-lawful good Paladin class but then wouldn't let you take evil and/or chaotic equivalents of most stuff in splats. But certainly worth checking before you take the class.

Gruftzwerg
2020-11-11, 01:49 PM
I'd consider it a pretty lousy DM who let you take a non-lawful good Paladin class but then wouldn't let you take evil and/or chaotic equivalents of most stuff in splats. But certainly worth checking before you take the class.

I'm in the same boat. But we should still point out what RAW is and leave the rest to the DM. Further, don't forget those tables that are under the impression that they play 100% RAW (which is imho never the chase), at those tables you would have to expect to live on with the small spell list.

the_tick_rules
2020-11-11, 01:56 PM
Isn't a blackguard basically an evil paladin?

Gruftzwerg
2020-11-11, 02:26 PM
Isn't a blackguard basically an evil paladin?

thematically seen yes. By they aren't the same. And the same goes for the different spell list.

Piggy Knowles
2020-11-11, 02:34 PM
An ex-paladin who becomes a bone knight (Five Nations, p117) retains its paladin spellcasting (as well as its divine grace, lay on hands, aura of courage and divine health). As there are no alignment restrictions for a bone knight, this would allow an evil fallen paladin to still have full access to casting and other paladin class features, without needing to go the blackguard route.

EDIT: There's also the chameleon (Races of Destiny, p111, also published online). The divine focus lets you prepare spells as a cleric but from any divine list. The downside is that preparing divine spells as a cleric means you likely can't prepare spells of an alignment opposed to yours, but it shouldn't restrict you from preparing non-aligned paladin spells.

Khedrac
2020-11-11, 04:28 PM
Archivist? Chameleon?

Seconding these two who theoretically get access to every divine spell (up to 6th level for chameleons) and thus is a far better answer than all of the subsequent posts.

Thurbane
2020-11-11, 04:35 PM
There is RAW debate whether an Archivist or Chameleon casting a spell from the Paladin list will work with the Battle Blessing feat or not. Most come down on the side of no.

Paladin of Slaughter or Tyranny should work, though.

Ruethgar
2020-11-11, 08:13 PM
If you count Psionics, Psychic Adept powers known are terrible(they are an NPC class after all), but they can draw from any discipline, like that of the StP Erudite.

Spellhoarding Dragons can catch any spell into their spellbooks and may or may not be able to cast them. They cast as a wizard, but are still technically sorcerers and sorcerers can cast any spell they are familiar with so it’s a bit up in the air on that.

On that note, sorcerers can outright cast any paladin spell they were familiar with enough to learn.

Biggus
2020-11-11, 09:37 PM
I'm in the same boat. But we should still point out what RAW is and leave the rest to the DM. Further, don't forget those tables that are under the impression that they play 100% RAW (which is imho never the chase), at those tables you would have to expect to live on with the small spell list.

Agreed, I just meant that when you said they "don't profit from Splattbooks (unless you have a generous DM)", "don't profit from splatbooks if you have a very stingy DM" would have been nearer to it...

And agreed that I've never seen anyone play truly 100% RAW, apart from anything else there are so many rules which just don't work if you take them entirely literally the game would be almost unplayable.

Jervis
2020-11-12, 01:33 AM
Can't remember the issue but dragon mag has evil paladin variants. These are, to my understanding, paladin's by all definitions and get same same list.

WhamBamSam
2020-11-12, 02:02 AM
Note that these have slightly different Spelllists and don't profit from Splattbooks (unless you have a generous DM).Their spell lists only deviate from the standard Paladin spell list in the specific ways they say they do, so they should still get splatbook spells. They can even cast them, because Paladin casting doesn't actually have alignment restrictions like Cleric does on what you can cast, though casting a spell of an opposed alignment is an act of that alignment, and would cause them to fall immediately afterward.

Gruftzwerg
2020-11-12, 03:22 AM
Their spell lists only deviate from the standard Paladin spell list in the specific ways they say they do, so they should still get splatbook spells. They can even cast them, because Paladin casting doesn't actually have alignment restrictions like Cleric does on what you can cast, though casting a spell of an opposed alignment is an act of that alignment, and would cause them to fall immediately afterward.

look again. that is only true for the paladin of freedom (who is not evil):

Spellcasting

Remove the following spells from the paladin's spell list: death ward, discern lies, dispel chaos, magic circle against chaos, protection from chaos.

Add the following spells to the paladin's spell list: 1st—protection from law; 3rd—magic circle against law; 4th—dispel law, freedom of movement.

the two evil options have both this line:

Spellcasting

Replace the standard paladin's spell list with the following spell list: ...
which implies that it is not the Paladin's spell list anymore by RAW (again, I'm not implying to limit yourself/ your table to this. I wouldn't either).

aglondier
2020-11-12, 05:24 AM
...or Repent?

Or run a plotline where your evil char has been cursed by a good diety and can only access spells with the Good descriptor...

DMVerdandi
2020-11-14, 08:52 AM
If you count Psionics, Psychic Adept powers known are terrible(they are an NPC class after all), but they can draw from any discipline, like that of the StP Erudite.

Spellhoarding Dragons can catch any spell into their spellbooks and may or may not be able to cast them. They cast as a wizard, but are still technically sorcerers and sorcerers can cast any spell they are familiar with so it’s a bit up in the air on that.

On that note, sorcerers can outright cast any paladin spell they were familiar with enough to learn.

Not familiar with the psychic adept at all.
Where is this???