How low IS Eugene's charisma?

[Charles Phipps]

4?
6?

Does he just roll RIDICULOUSLY low?

[the mysterian]

i think we are talking dump stat here like with thog's intelligence, its less than Vs, less than xykon and less than well everyone.

[Reinkai]

I assumed that wisdom was his dump stat, though his CHA is pretty damn low.

[Yogi]

Scary thought: At Venerable age, he's supposed to have a +3 bonus to his Charisma AND Wisdom.

[boomwolf]

I would say 1. if it was possible it was on negatives.

[David Argall]

What is the evidence that his charisma is at all low? Sara seems to have found it high enough. SOD and he seems to get positive reactions in this book from all but Roy, who does end up trying to forfilled the oath like dad wanted.

We have a lot of people who don't like him, but we are not PC or NPC.

[Gitman00]

I would say 1. if it was possible it was on negatives.

A sentient being cannot have (naturally) less than 3 on any mental stat. Anyway, I don't think we've seen any hard and fast evidence of Eugene's charisma one way or another. Being a jerk doesn't necessarily preclude you from having a high Cha. Heck, Xykon's got a Cha of at least 28. You wanna tell me you'd guess that from his behavior, if we didn't know he was a level 20+ sorcerer?

[Tempest Fennac]

I think Roy only agreed to try and fulfill the BOoV to prove to Eugene that he could do it rather then because Eugene persuaded him to try to destroy Xykon. Also, is there any proof that Eugene is actually sentinet? Being serious, I'd say that it's probably 6 due to him reaching venerable age.

[sednanalien]

I think its actually quite decent, considering the fact that he was in the limelight as a wizard while still alive. 12? 14? I just think that his charisma based skill take a massive -20 penalty with family:smallfrown:.

[Tempest Fennac]

There were some bits in SoD where Eugene displayed rubbish social skills with people who he didn't know (including 1 person who was trying to help him).

[Skyserpent]

Charisma includes presence and force of personality, which he has a fair modicum of, I mean, snark kinda ties into Wisdom and Charisma in my opinion, and Eugene, Roy and Xykon have 'em in SPADES.

[Tempest Fennac]

That is a good point (I think the problem with Charisma is that it covers several things which aren't really connected to each other, which is a problem when it comes to people with awful interpersonal skills who have strong personalities).

[Alfryd]

If Miko and Elan are allowed to have Charisma scores of 16 and 18 or more respectively, I'm afraid there's very little you can do to draw reliable conclusions here.

[Spiryt]

Well, in fact I have no idea why should he have low charisma. He is a jerk but fairly well spoken and certainly have strong personality. His influence on others is considerable - look how angry he made Roy. Only Xykon could irritate him more.

I think that you are mistaking Charisma with something else. With being a jerk most probably.

[warmachine]

People with low charisma don't attract beautiful women unless they have huge amounts of wealth and power to compensate. Eugene doesn't have that much.

[Gravedjinn]

People with low charisma don't attract beautiful women unless they have huge amounts of wealth and power to compensate. Eugene doesn't have that much.



thats what she said?

[DeathQuaker]

"Force of personality" does not equal "likeability."

A jerk with a high cha will still be noticed when he walks into the room over others, and listened to when he speaks. His snide insults and barbs will be more hurtful, because he's so damn good at delivering them.

Personally, I think Eugene's charisma score is prolly just fine.

His Wisdom score on the other hand.... Eugene is not a man I would call insightful or intuitive. He has little sense of perspective--he can't see any situation other than from his own POV. He is not "aware," literally or spiritually. That's where I think his dump stat probably is.

[Tempest Fennac]

SoD spoiler:
When Eugene and Sarah first met in a tavern, the dialogue went like this: Sarah (with "tipsy" bubbles above head: Hey, you wanna come back to my place to have some fun? Eugene: Who, me? Sarah: Yeah, you'll do. This suggests that Eugene wasn't used to women hitting on him. Also, Eugene was resurrected several times, and he could afford to spend a lot of money when it came to Roy's education (we don't know what Warthogs costs for board and tuition, but we know that Bash U cost 40,000 per year ( http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html ). Admittedly, it seems as though she didn't know who he was (he probably wasn't famous at the time).

[Mordokai]

What is the evidence that his charisma is at all low? Sara seems to have found it high enough.

At that time Sara was, to put it mildly, tipsy. I'm don't know how very drunk she was, but she was certainly VERY drunk. In the state like that it's probably +4 to +6 charisma to everybody. Heck, Eugene himself is quite surprised when she asks him to come home with her, and she says(if memory serves) something along the lines, yeah, you'll have to do it. So that is no proof of high charisma, rather the exact opposite.

I actually think that Eugene has pretty solid charisma(15, maybe even 16). He does know how to spar verbaly and he is good at delivering barbs, something somebody with low charisma wouldn't be able to do. However, that part of SoD proves nothing.

[Kish]

A sentient being cannot have (naturally) less than 3 on any mental stat. ?
No, just Intelligence. A half-orc who rolls a 3 and puts it in Intelligence will have it bumped back up to 3 after the racial penalties are applied, but a half-orc or dwarf who rolls a 3 and puts it in Charisma will function just fine (for a certain definition of "function just fine") with a 1 Charisma, and a member of a race which gets -2 Wisdom, who puts a rolled 3 in Wisdom, will have a 1 Wisdom.

[Oxymoron]

At that time Sara was, to put it mildly, tipsy. I'm don't know how very drunk she was, but she was certainly VERY drunk. In the state like that it's probably +4 to +6 charisma to everybody. Heck, Eugene himself is quite surprised when she asks him to come home with her, and she says(if memory serves) something along the lines, yeah, you'll have to do it. So that is no proof of high charisma, rather the exact opposite.

I actually think that Eugene has pretty solid charisma(15, maybe even 16). He does know how to spar verbaly and he is good at delivering barbs, something somebody with low charisma wouldn't be able to do. However, that part of SoD proves nothing.

True, but she kept on sleeping with him long after that. I don't remember Roy saying anything about his mother being a drunk.

[Iranon]

There is a problem with hard evidence for low ability scores... the person in question could just elect not to use them.

An absent-minded genius might appear to act quite stupidly, one might have charisma in spades but dislike people (and lack the motivation to at least manipulate them) or high wisdom without the responsibility to act on it.

Certain abilities are likely to shape one's personality (the obsessive nerd with high INT, absymal WIS and CHA. The fatherly, no-nonsense mentor with more WIS than INT. The vapid socialite with high CHA and little else...) but fortunately it's not clear cut or we'd have even more walking cliches.

I see no real evidence for low mental scores in Eugene's case.

[Bluelantern]

Actually, I pretty sure it is high, he is a jerk, but a jerk who can speak hurtfull venom pretty well

[Kreistor]

Wizards don't have any Charisma Class Skills. Eugene, even with a high Charisma, isn't going to succeed at anything difficult. There's no actual evidence of any score high or low for his Charisma.

[Devils_Advocate]

I'm inclined to agree that, if anything, Eugene probably has above-average Charisma. Charismatic does not automatically mean likable; generally, it just means impressive. In some cases, that might mean spectacularly loathsome. The thing about Diplomacy checks is, they cover actually trying to get people to like you. Charisma is just as effective at helping you frighten people, or convince them of something... or just piss them off, if that's what you're trying to do. And sadly, Roy and his father seem to have an almost deliberately antagonistic relationship: Each of them pretty much tries to be unpleasant to the other. And succeeds.

Is it any wonder that they don't get along?

[newcresty]

i think we are talking dump stat here like with thog's intelligence, its less than Vs, less than xykon and less than well everyone.

how is that xykon having low cha? i mean, he's a sorcerer, his powers are related to his charisma, it has to be his higer stat...

[Kreistor]

how is that xykon having low cha? i mean, he's a sorcerer, his powers are related to his charisma, it has to be his higer stat...

Xykon's at least 19, in fact. Can't cast a Spell Level 9 with less than that.

[Mordokai]

True, but she kept on sleeping with him long after that. I don't remember Roy saying anything about his mother being a drunk.

By the looks in comic she is what? 22? 25 in best I would say. You won't say that at years like those there aren't people who are drunk on day to day basis. Maybe Eugene was good in bed so she decided to keep on going. Or maybe(SoD spoiler)

that protective charm Eugene mentions failed somewhat sooner. Like the first time.

Eugene is supposedly lawful, so he would stay with Sara if that happened.