D&D 5e Powergamer's Tactics Room Showdown Series: Web vs. Maximilian's Earthen Grasp

[Bilbron]

These are 2 of the best 2nd level control spells around, but in a showdown, only one walks away! Which of these spells do you think is better? The answer might surprise you.

https://youtu.be/Jodor6-46sg

[MaxWilson]

These are 2 of the best 2nd level control spells around, but in a showdown, only one walks away! Which of these spells do you think is better? The answer might surprise you.

https://youtu.be/Jodor6-46sg

Eh, I'm not persuaded. Anti-mob duty is a pretty big part of a wizard's role, and Web fulfills that role nicely against anything which can be restrained, and even if you set fire to Web, you're still restrained for another round while the webs burn up. Add that to the action economy advantage of Web (can force additional saves from additional creatures without spending an action), and it's really no contest IMO. And BTW Web remains useful well beyond Tier 1, because most big monsters have relatively crummy Dex saves, even demons and dragons. Plus, it's cheap.

FWIW I didn't follow why the text "5d6 - 1.5 * 1d10" was on-screen. You said something about comparing opportunity cost of cantrips against Maximilian's Earthen Grasp, but since you're assuming that the Maximilian's Earthen Grasp caster is using a bunch of actions to re-attempt restraint enough times to succeed 2-3 times, that seems to imply that he's spending 5-7 actions on Maximilian's Earthen Grasp to get those 5d6 damage. Therefore the opportunity cost is 5-7 cantrips, so should be roughly something like 4-5 * 1d10, not 1.5 * 1d10.

Now that I watch the video again, I think the fundamental difference is that I'm assuming that you can probably force enemies to interact with Web on multiple rounds (via Repelling Blast, or Shoves, or grapples, etc.), and you're assuming that it only works on round 1 (plus followup rounds on anyone who failed on round 1)--so the advantage Maximilian's Earthen Grasp wins in your 10-round combat is purely due to the re-tries. In my experience it's actually not too difficult to cast Web in a place where monsters will have to stand in the Web in order to attack the party, and each round they do they have to save or be restrained. You can even drop it directly on the party if you need to, since there's no real risk of friendly fire--if more PCs than monsters fail their saves and get restrained, you can always drop Web, so at worst it's useless, never actually harmful. PCs can also shove or drag each other out of the webs to free each other, if you don't want to break concentration.

My metric is "if I'm in a fight for my life, which spell do I want more?" Since hordes are generally scarier than individual monsters in 5E, I want the spell that works against hordes, therefore I want Web. Otherwise I want Tasha's, unless I'm fighting a Purple Worm, and then I want Web again. (Me + other PCs will hide in the Web waiting for the Purple Worm to surface and attack us.)

Web is a great spell, worthy of use even at 20th level. Maximilian's Earthen Grasp, not so much.

[Slayn82]

I agree with above poster. Web is far more useful. Specially since at higher levels, there's better Single target control spells to spend concentration. Also, there's niche creative uses for web, like instant hidding place, or use it to make someone think a place is abandoned.

[Ir0ns0ul]

I’m starting to get excited for each new video released.

I’m playing a Divination Wizard fully dedicated to battlefield control (famous “God Wizard” style trademarked by Treatmonk) right now and most of your videos have been super useful to enrich my gameplay and make my allies shine! Everyone at my table was shocked when I Catapulted a Net in the face of an Orc!
I must say I politely disagree with this last Showdown. Maybe it’s something specific from my current table, but Web has been simply game-changer for my group because our DM loves to throw swarms of mooks and armies of annoying minions .

We are even using the Fire condition in our favor. Whenever we identify a good chance to kill someone locked down in the Web, I make my Unseen Servant drop some oil flask in the enemies square and throw a humble Fire Bolt for 1d10 + 2d4 (Web) + 5 (Oil). Respectable damage at level 4 that not even my Warlock buddy with Hex is able to accomplish.

[Bilbron]

I agree with above poster. Web is far more useful. Specially since at higher levels, there's better Single target control spells to spend concentration. Also, there's niche creative uses for web, like instant hidding place, or use it to make someone think a place is abandoned.

These are all valid arguments, for sure. I love me some Web! I knew it was a hot take so expected some disagreement.

I appreciate your feedback; many thanks.


I’m starting to get excited for each new video released.

I’m playing a Divination Wizard fully dedicated to battlefield control (famous “God Wizard” style trademarked by Treatmonk) right now and most of your videos have been super useful to enrich my gameplay and make my allies shine! Everyone at my table was shocked when I Catapulted a Net in the face of an Orc!
I must say I politely disagree with this last Showdown. Maybe it’s something specific from my current table, but Web has been simply game-changer for my group because our DM loves to throw swarms of mooks and armies of annoying minions .

We are even using the Fire condition in our favor. Whenever we identify a good chance to kill someone locked down in the Web, I make my Unseen Servant drop some oil flask in the enemies square and throw a humble Fire Bolt for 1d10 + 2d4 (Web) + 5 (Oil). Respectable damage at level 4 that not even my Warlock buddy with Hex is able to accomplish.

Ha ha, that's awesome, I'm so glad to hear it. My channel is off to a pretty solid start, which is very encouraging! And now that I have a few videos under my belt, the production is getting much easier.

Web is definitely a great spell. I legitimately tossed and turned for a couple of nights as I chewed on this Showdown, and discussed it with friends. Ultimately it's that easy fire end condition that really turns me off, but these are all subjective valuations so plenty of room for disagreement.

Thanks a ton for your support, I really appreciate it.