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Dr paradox
2020-11-13, 09:06 AM
TL;DR: How can a Warlock escape the terms of his pact with an evil fey?

So, I'm working out a personal plot for a player, whose character is an aristocratic, status obsessed, hedonistic prick named Leo. He was kicked out of wizard school when it was discovered he'd made a pact with an evil Archfey called the Peckish Duke in order to land a prestigious apprenticeship, and now he travels the land looking for a high-status, high-comfort gig. Being a warlock is illegal and would make him the target of Witch-Finders, but his noble family set him up with a fake wizard diploma before making it clear he wasn't welcome at home any longer. Presently, he has his eye on the vacant seat of the Court Wizard in the city in which the campaign takes place.

Unfortunately, he had a dream-audience with the Peckish duke that made it clear he's running out of time. He's had a lean year or so, and the current quest has forced him to go without a certain amount of creature comforts, which is making the Duke antsy. See, the Duke lives on greed, opulence, and hedonism: he represents the will to consume and destroy for pleasure, "eating" metaphorically as well as literally. The terms of his pact with Leo are that he gives the Aristocrat the power he needs to "live deliciously," and the Duke "eats" whatever Leo does. The Duke is, metaphorically, a personification of Leo's worst and most selfish impulses.

The problem is that the Duke's appetite grows more discerning with time, and Leo's misadventures have slowly but surely closed off avenues of high living as he's pissed off several courts that might have kept him in cream puffs and cinnamon tea. Now that what Leo eats is slim pickings, the Duke has appeared and threatened that unless Leo gets down to some fine dining, the Duke will have to call in his marker: that is to say, he'll eat Leo.

This threat has rattled Leo, so now he's combing through his Book of Shadows looking for a way out of this, or at least to forestall it until he can wrangle that new Court Wizard appointment.

My question is, what options does he find? As I see it, he's got three choices.


Free himself from the pact, giving up his Warlock powers through a ritual or symbolic rejection of the Duke's awful philosophy.
Embrace the Duke's hideous gluttony, turn evil, and basically declare that there is no depth to which he will not stoop to feed his egotistical appetites.
Make neither decision and attempt to continue on as before, maybe snagging that court appointment only to discover that the Duke cannot be satisfied by conventional offerings. Leo is eaten by the Duke, probably in an epilogue.



These all might seem extreme, but it's a short form pocket campaign that'll wrap up within the next six sessions, so something decisive is in order.

So what EXACTLY would be a satisfying way to break from the Duke? What would be a reasonable way to satiate the Duke that's evil and debased, but not, like, no fun? Is it fair to kill off the character in epilogue if they try to take a half-measure? MOST importantly, how do I drive this personal drama into the open so it becomes a matter for the party? Even if the player wants to tap into that kind of high drama (they're an actor by nature, so I tend to think they'll enjoy it), I'm worried that they'll try to maintain secrecy for the sake of character motivation. I want to give them the OPPORTUNITY to confide in the party as an in-character action.


(Aside: I come from a school of thought that suggests there's a level of meta-play ABOVE thinking in-character, where you instead think of your avatar as a character in an unfolding drama, who thus has a certain duty to the story. That's not to say you "break character" for the convenience of the plot, just that you choose in in-character option that most benefits the story in tone, structure, theme, and so on. To be clear, when I say "above," I don't necessarily mean that this mode is "better," just that it tends to be a progression from thinking strictly in-character. I'm getting all of this from this article (https://www.chocolatehammer.org/?p=6125), if you want a clearer idea of what I mean.)

Batcathat
2020-11-13, 09:59 AM
First of all, that sounds like a cool and interesting plot. Maybe another option (or possibly a version of option one) would be to pass on the deal to someone else, basically finding someone else (presumably someone already in a suitable position) and convince the Duke to let that person take over Leo's responsibilities. Depending on how open Leo is with his replacement about the whole deal that solution could be varying shades of immoral but either way it's probably quite far from "good" in the alignment sense.

More in general I feel like a typical end for this kind of story is for Leo to somehow fool the Duke, probably by exploiting his hedonistic hunger somehow, but it would probably have to be a pretty clever trick to avoid feeling like deus ex machina.

Anonymouswizard
2020-11-13, 10:13 AM
Normally to break from a Warlock pact you'd need something your patron desires more than what they're getting from the pact. In this case that might honestly might just be a better pact, but that might be hard to arrange.

The question for breaking the pact is what does the Peckish Duke want, apart from excess? Assuming that all he wants is to get fat from excess, does Leo have to be the one providing the excess? Could Leo fulfil his end of the bargain by using his powers and resources to lead others into sensual living? Does pleasure have to be what most people would understand as pleasure, or can we go full blown Slaanesh here?

Of course we can take this to some very dark places, far beyond ritualised self-harm. That's just how Warlocks are. But there's no need to sink to that level.

All in all, yes it's fine for characters to suffer horrible epilogues (or even horrible fates in play). In fact Leo's options seem to boil down to 'break the Pact', 'get killed by heroes', or 'devoured by his Patron', and any of them can be a very fitting, if not uplifting, end to a tale.

What did he expect when he made a bargain with a fey? At least with devils you can trust them to abide by the letter of the agreement.

Glimbur
2020-11-13, 10:34 AM
If you don't like the terms of the deal, Evil can always consider killing the other party in the deal. Sounds a bit tricky in this case, but finding a sufficient threat to make the patron willing to drop the deal might work. Which itself could be a worse but longer time deal, get a real devil on your side.

Batcathat
2020-11-13, 10:43 AM
If you don't like the terms of the deal, Evil can always consider killing the other party in the deal. Sounds a bit tricky in this case, but finding a sufficient threat to make the patron willing to drop the deal might work. Which itself could be a worse but longer time deal, get a real devil on your side.

A version of this might be for Leo to take a page out of John Constantine's play book and sell his soul to someone (or someones) of roughly equal power to the Duke and hope they don't think it's worth coming into conflict with each other over something as insignificant as a mortal's soul.

Of course, this only works if it's metaphysically possible to make such a deal with multiple beings (and to hide that you're doing it) which may not be the case.

Lo'Tek
2020-11-13, 02:12 PM
How can a Warlock escape the terms of his pact with an evil fey?
A ritual or symbolic rejection isn't going to cut it. To escape the Dukes influence Leo would need to go ascetic, not only rejecting the philosophy but aiming for the other extreme, freeing himself not only from greed and hedonism, but from desire. While the duke might try to manipulate his surrounding to tease and bait him, he has direct power over him anymore. However reaching buddhist Nirvana, or at least Anatta, is no hint found in the Book of Shadows and Leo does not sound like the type for that.

What can be found in the Book of Shadows is Annihilation: a simple out of fiendish deals, is getting eaten by a demi-lich or similar soul consuming horror. However in this case that might not be an improvement, unless the fine print says it may take a millennium of agony to get digested, in which case a quick and mostly painless soul-reavering is an option. Often those who make such deals try to keep existing forever instead and look at lichdom as an option to cheat the contract and never be damned to hell. (edit: my mind substituted fiend for fey o.O minds are strange) A less horrific way is to get ones soul forged into a magical item. The archfiend however may still eat that, or take possession of it.

The contracts fine print may have less radical loopholes. While the duke will threaten him and make many demands, the contract could, pro forma, be fulfilled by holding increasingly lavish banquets ... for cats. Which isn't that expensive or dangerous. Sure the Duke will deny him spell like abilities and manipulate his surroundings to get to him, but living a simple, yet joyful life among many pets might annoy the Duke to the point where he goes away and doesn't even collect on death, because the meager old man probably tastes like cheap cat food.


Is it fair to kill off the character in epilogue if they try to take a half-measure?
If its a true end, not a "sequel?" situation, then all is fair in epilogue. However writing and narrating the epilogue as a GM without talking to the player is ... meh. If i play i often have strong ideas what happens in epilogue, so 1on1 communication is key before you publish to the group.


how do I drive this personal drama into the open so it becomes a matter for the party?
Give them more cash, then have the duke demand he takes far more than a fair share (greed)... and waste it on hedonism and consumption. Inviting the party to the party, you can nudge them into a confrontation, if the thing is pompus enough you could have the fiend itself attend, or hint to the player far to late that it might be an happen and hope Leo acts on that and seeks the groups help.

VonKaiserstein
2020-11-13, 02:31 PM
What a delightful and characterful patron! Great job for the player and yourself!

That being said, if it is the greed and gluttony that the Duke desires, the errant guy needs to offer and exchange. The greed and debased hedonism of one person probably pales before the greed and hedonism of 6, would it not? Or 7 or 9, whatever's the Duke's holy number is. So your character needs to hatch a scheme to set up that number of poor beings to live a life of luxury (to them- it will still be well below his own level of living, so he can afford it with his diminished resources) for a year in exchange for selling their souls to the Duke. Beggars would do fine, as would goblins, kobolds, bullywugs, or anything like that. In the management of this combination reality tv show torture house, he can give the participants the option of participating in gluttonous challenges in exchange for power over other participants or the threat of being expelled back into the streets. He can sell visitation passes to nobility who want to slum it, or equip it with some viewing terraces.

Although greasy and disreputable... as long as it doesn't cause harm to the participants it's likely technically still helping them, and thus not truly evil. Likewise feeding the poor as long as they amuse you is legal in most kingdoms, as is turning out servants who displease you.

TeChameleon
2020-11-14, 08:40 PM
Part and parcel of the whole Fey deal is that they have opposites and enemies; summer and winter, Seelie and Unseelie, light and dark.

Leo clearly has at least enough understanding of the fey to seek out a patron that (he thought) would be a good match for him. It probably wouldn't take much more research for him to dig up the Peckish Duke's opposite number (... the Magnanimous Duchess?) and seek out their help. Depending on how deep the two fey's rivalry goes, the Duke's opposite might help out just for the pleasure of pissing him off, or even because it's their nature to be generous, just as it is the Duke's to be selfish.

And adopting a patron that provides power based on generosity rather than hedonism wouldn't necessarily be a stretch- after all, being lavishly generous means that you have the resources to do so, and nobody said that generosity precludes personal comfort. Although Leo probably would have to become at least a slightly better person in order to avoid being fed to someone else...

Also, to get the party involved? A trip to the Feywild would probably blast things into the open if they went to the right bit, and even if it wasn't the right area, Leo would probably need to explain just why he was so adamantly against the idea of going there.

Kareeah_Indaga
2020-11-16, 06:25 PM
Eat the Duke first.

Don't know if that would be practical or possible within the framework of your game, though.

Ajustusdaniel
2020-11-16, 06:46 PM
Offhand-

1: Convince the Peckish Duke to allow you to leave the contract. This presumably involves

A) Offering him something he wants more than either Leo's depravity or his soul. Perhaps have him establish a contract with someone who looks forward to a long and debauched life- Leo could find an upstanding young citizen, perhaps one who had just inherited a fortune, and lead them down the primrose path of vice and excess, culminating with an introduction to the Duke himself. One in, one out, and Leo walks away whistling.

B) Or presenting a larger threat. Perhaps Leo could attract the attention of something bigger and meaner than the Duke, and point out that if the Duke consumes him, then the Duke himself will simply absorb the soul scent that the whatever-it-is-on-high is sniffing after. Safer for everyone if we walk away and part as friends. Of course, this presents the problem of wriggling out of the new problem. If Leo's got the nerve to try and con an Archfey, perhaps it was a paper tiger along.

2: Breaking the contract without the Duke's cooperation.

A) Look, any mystical contract is just a particular arrangement of matter and energy. Adventurers reorganize matter and energy all the time, like reorganizing that bandit so all the blood is on the outside. This might be a little more complicated, but if you dump enough energy into the system something's got to give. Now, where did we leave that map of "Dangerous Sources of Arcane Energy That Under No Circumstances Should Be Dug Up?"

B) Look, these things aren't solveable by brute force. You need finesse. There's always a loophole, you know. Did you sign something in blood? That's fine, we just need to turn you into some sort of being that doesn't run on blood, and then we can reasonably make the case that you are not, in any arcano-legal sense, the same being that was bound to that contract. Or maybe you're bound by your secret name? Well, it just so happens that I just finished translating this Dwarven Epic about a creature called the Devourer of Names. Is that anything, do you think?

C) You're gonna need a Bigger God. They say if you present yourself as a sincere penitent and supplicant at the Shrine of the Merciful Uncle, the God himself will offer you sanctuary against all comers. Of course, it means leaving behind everything you were before, and also nobody really knows where the shrine is, but, you know, desperate times.

Anonymouswizard
2020-11-16, 07:09 PM
Because we all know a hungry archfey of excess isn't going to hunt down their ex-Warlock to turn them into păté. Weirdly the best way to get out might be to get a Solar or the like to make another pact with as soon as Leo breaks this one, if he can act consistently good many celestials would probably be willing to supply magic in exchange for redemption.

(Alternatively find an archdevil or the like, the fact is Leo likely wants somebody higher on the metaphysical totem pole than the Duke unless he's willing to have to run from the Duke or fight for his life.)

Yes I have a very bleak view on the status of Warlocks and see the patron as holding all the cards. Oh you weaseled your way out of the deal? Well you've lost your magic and have angered something with the power of a god. Want to substitute somebody else in? The requirements are such that you likely can't, or you've got to make multiple people make pacts. Beat up your patron? Again, power of a god, you're lucky if you're dead.

The plus side is that in my games Warlocks get a lot of leeway in how they complete their tasks and generous time limits. Especially Warlocks that have gained a few levels, a 3rd level Warlock can't exactly be replaced overnight. But eventually they will come calling, and I'm not a fan of the Faustian rebellion.

So to provide a counterpoint to most of the thread, including maybe even the first post I made in it, getting out of the pact might just be impossible without forfeiting your life. Which in and of itself is a satisfying arc for a character to go through, whether that ends with them facing their end calmly or screaming in terror.

Dr paradox
2020-11-17, 07:43 PM
Lot of excellent thoughts here, I appreciate the chiming in.

(IN CASE IT WASN'T CLEAR, IF LEO, DUBHSITH, ALP, FLAVIA, OR IOANNIS ARE HERE, TURN BACK NOW)

Part of the trick here is that, in game, the campaign is about... 72 hours from being over, 24 of which will be spent on a boat, which means that there's NO time for extensive sidequesting. They'll be in a sizeable city, so there's options, but excursions to the Feywild or off into the wilds to find a lost temple are right out. The timeline here is likely to go...


Deal with some marauders holding the docks hostage to capture the party fighter
Take a boat back downriver to the main city
Spend the night at their secret hideout filling in allies about what happened while they were out of town,
Kill time until around 4 PM when they can meet with the Queen's spyring
Get hit with the END OF ACT 2 BLOWOUT


They've picked up enough stakes and information that they probably can't be distracted with sidequests. They know the badguy's plan, they know how to find his lair, they know what might happen if they drag their feet and let him do his thing.

Structurally, what I have to work with is twenty-four hours of low-pressure boat travel in which to roleplay, decode information from the book of shadows, and introspect, and then the eight hours between getting up in the morning and going to meet the Queen's spies. In there are two nights where the Duke could appear in Leo's dreams.

Maybe I could have tucked in more room for sidequesting earlier, but they've been very focused on the main plot - the whole campaign has played out over the course of about a week.

These limitations in mind, here's what I've come up with"

As far as placating the Peckish Duke goes, the last dream included the Duke eating someone that Leo killed for revenge. This was unsettling, but it also suggests an obvious route forward: Leo could make a habit of human sacrifice, providing sweeter, more forbidden meats for the Duke to gorge himself on. If he gets the position of First Enchanter, he'd have plenty of power to cover up his ongoing sacrifices, culled from the lower classes of the city. He gets everything that he wanted, but he's also very evil and ripe for getting Adventurer'd some time down the line. The party even has a prisoner they've been talking about executing: As I see it, the night they get back to their hideout, the Duke can appear in dreams and make this offer. Leo could then get up in the middle of the night, go downstairs, kill the prisoner, and try to make it look like an escape attempt. That'd set him down the dark path.

Getting out of the contact is somewhat trickier (as is always the case.) Technicalities and foisting the contract off on someone else make sense, but they're not thematically fulfilling: breaking the contract needs to be emotionally tied to breaking Leo's cycle of narcissistic greed. For that, I really liked the suggestion of using a fey rival to the Peckish Duke.

I'm not an expert, but despite the Duke's evil, I get more of a summer fey feel from him. He's syrupy and excessive, he's not hungry because he's starving. In contrast, I think his opposite number should be a Winter Fey called The Lodge (Open to better name suggestions). Literally, it appears as a large log cabin that appears in the midst of a raging blizzard. There isn't much within, but the doors are unlocked: what it has, it offers freely. Essentially, it says that it will intercede on Leo's behalf IF, when offered his heart's desire (the post of First Enchanter), he instead breaks his staff, drowns his book, and refuses to accept it.

HERE'S MY CURRENT PROBLEM

The question remains, by what mechanism can Leo gain an audience with the Lodge, and how can the rest of the party be there, too? What makes sense to me is that he needs a MacGuffin of some kind that can be found in the city in order to induce a trance in which he can meet the Lodge, and that MacGuffin needs to be stolen. What is that MacGuffin, who has it, and how can it be used to gain an audience with the Lodge? It can't belong to a wizard or be in a wizard's tower, I'm afraid, they already did a wizard's tower break-in earlier in the campaign.

Hellpyre
2020-11-17, 08:59 PM
Look, any mystical contract is just a particular arrangement of matter and energy. Adventurers reorganize matter and energy all the time, like reorganizing that bandit so all the blood is on the outside.

A little bit of an aside, but may I sig this. It resonates deeply with me.

TeChameleon
2020-11-17, 11:52 PM
Getting out of the contact is somewhat trickier (as is always the case.) Technicalities and foisting the contract off on someone else make sense, but they're not thematically fulfilling: breaking the contract needs to be emotionally tied to breaking Leo's cycle of narcissistic greed. For that, I really liked the suggestion of using a fey rival to the Peckish Duke.

I'm not an expert, but despite the Duke's evil, I get more of a summer fey feel from him. He's syrupy and excessive, he's not hungry because he's starving. In contrast, I think his opposite number should be a Winter Fey called The Lodge (Open to better name suggestions). Literally, it appears as a large log cabin that appears in the midst of a raging blizzard. There isn't much within, but the doors are unlocked: what it has, it offers freely. Essentially, it says that it will intercede on Leo's behalf IF, when offered his heart's desire (the post of First Enchanter), he instead breaks his staff, drowns his book, and refuses to accept it.

HERE'S MY CURRENT PROBLEM

The question remains, by what mechanism can Leo gain an audience with the Lodge, and how can the rest of the party be there, too? What makes sense to me is that he needs a MacGuffin of some kind that can be found in the city in order to induce a trance in which he can meet the Lodge, and that MacGuffin needs to be stolen. What is that MacGuffin, who has it, and how can it be used to gain an audience with the Lodge? It can't belong to a wizard or be in a wizard's tower, I'm afraid, they already did a wizard's tower break-in earlier in the campaign.

Agreed on the Duke seeming to fit the Summer Court a bit better- generally speaking, the Summer Court are nicer than their Winter counterparts, but they aren't good.

So, spinning some ideas here; names first.

"The Lodge" actually works fine, in my opinion, but if you want something that mirrors The Peckish Duke's adjective-noun format slightly better, "The Lost Lodge", "The Final Shelter", "The Last Resort", "The Lonely Hearth", "The Ramshackle Home" (or just "The Ramshackle" might work)- something that conveys both finality and sanctuary, from what you've said about it.

As an aside, if it were up to me, I'd give The Lodge (just using your name for it for now for the sake of clarity) some motivation beyond austerity for its own sake. Even the most ascetic of real-world religions renounce the material as a means to an end, not as a goal in and of itself. If Leo's only motivation is to keep from being eaten, I doubt he'd last long on an austerity diet before he backslid right into the mindset that made him prey for the Peckish Duke in the first place. Some end goal- even if it's just The Lodge offering the power to affect the world (in the form of another pact)- seems like it would be necessary.

Given the nature of the duke's opposite- freely given austerity, bare bones survival- it seems to me that the information on how to reach it would be freely available, but from an unexpected source; maybe the local beggar king has the entrancing artifact and he offers anytime the truly desperate and destitute come to him. The quest then acquiring knowledge of the knowledge, as it were. Something that the poor, broken and lost know, but that the wise and powerful are entirely ignorant of.

So perhaps the toughest part of the quest would be for Leo to humble himself enough to realize that the answers he desperately needs can't be found in the halls of power, but only in the ranks of those that (I suspect, at least) he doesn't even want to acknowledge the existence of.

Maybe the boat has a young stowaway that was impressed as a cabin boy for the voyage, and they overhear Leo talking in his sleep while the Peckish Duke is in his dreams. The stowaway was homeless basically from birth, has encountered The Lodge before, when s/he was even younger, and knows that it hates the Duke. Will Leo listen to a ratty little street urchin that offers unasked-for (and kind of garbled) advice? Especially on a subject that he doesn't want anyone to know about?

Because it sounds like The Lodge (or whatever you decide to call it) would keep things pretty low-key; it doesn't want wannabe warlocks and wizards and arcane researchers pestering it while it does its thing. So even someone well-versed in the Fey, like Leo, wouldn't necessarily know about it. He would know that the Duke has an opposite, though. So an easy-to-moderate DC knowledge check would tell him that it might be worth pursuing, if he's willing to do what it takes.

Anyways, just spitballing- hopefully it gives you some ideas. The general gist I was going for 'low-born somehow becomes aware of Leo's need, offers solution'. The hard part would be Leo accepting the offered help, and the trance-trek to The Lodge, along with whatever the Lodge demands in terms of immediate sacrifice/show of good faith.

... it almost sounds like something you'd need to do in a solo side session, honestly. At least if you do it the way I was thinking.

EDIT: Does the rest of the party have any kind of vested interest in Leo's ongoing wellbeing? Do they care if something eats him, or if his soul is damned? Because if they do, and they want to help (without asking for anything in return), that sounds a lot like The Lodge's whole deal, and they'd come along to an audience naturally... as long as Leo is willing to surrender his pride and tell them what's going on. Or they find out on their own, somehow, and tell him they're helping whether he likes it or not :smalltongue:

TheStranger
2020-11-18, 09:47 AM
I like the idea of the Lodge, but I think that as winter fey, it needs a hook to go with the succor it offers. Like the Duke, it needs something from Leo.

I have a half-formed idea that the Lodge gives its shelter freely, never more than the bare necessity for survival, and those who accept it are cursed to never be wealthy or materially comfortable. Just as the Duke feeds via mortals wallowing in excess, the Lodge (Austere Lodge?) feeds via mortals living on the ragged edge, aware that they’re perilously close to the cold and hunger of Winter. Even among the beggars and urchins who know of it, the Lodge is a refuge of last resort.

In Leo’s case, the Lodge could require an additional service of Leo in exchange for interceding with the Duke. Perhaps he must give all he has to people in extreme poverty, but spread out enough to only sustain them for a short time, not to give them a shot at a better life. Or he must take everything from a wealthy man, leaving him broken and desperate. Or both. Or maybe not - maybe it’s enough that Leo himself gives up his aspirations. Your call.

Also, you may want the Lodge to have a caretaker for the party to interact with. A gaunt old man in a threadbare sweater or something. The party may initially think he’s an aspect or personification of the Lodge, but the truth is that he’s a mortal who consigned himself to a quasi-eternal life of bone-deep cold and watery gruel as he shares the Lodge’s “hospitality” with others. Hopefully whatever he got in exchange was worth it.

Ajustusdaniel
2020-11-18, 03:01 PM
A little bit of an aside, but may I sig this. It resonates deeply with me.

I'd be honored!

FabulousFizban
2020-11-18, 05:01 PM
sell your soul again to a different patron, a devil or something. That way, if you die, the patrons have to fight it out for your soul. That's what Constantine did in Hellblazer: he sold his soul to all three princes of hell, at which point they wouldn't let him die because it would have started a war in hell for his soul.

PairO'Dice Lost
2020-11-18, 08:25 PM
Part of the trick here is that, in game, the campaign is about... 72 hours from being over, 24 of which will be spent on a boat, which means that there's NO time for extensive sidequesting. They'll be in a sizeable city, so there's options, but excursions to the Feywild or off into the wilds to find a lost temple are right out.

Au contraire! There's plenty of time for a sidequest in the Feywild when you recall that time flows differently there than on the Material Plane. So if you really wanted the party to have to do something that would take, say, 3 days in subjective time, it could take 3 hours or 3 minutes or 3 seconds in Material Plane time and not make them late for their appointment. Not saying that a full sidequest is necessarily the best approach, just pointing it out as an option.

(And of course if the PCs try to abuse said flowing time, well, a 3-day task could instead take 3 weeks or 3 months or....)


I'm not an expert, but despite the Duke's evil, I get more of a summer fey feel from him. He's syrupy and excessive, he's not hungry because he's starving. In contrast, I think his opposite number should be a Winter Fey called The Lodge (Open to better name suggestions). Literally, it appears as a large log cabin that appears in the midst of a raging blizzard. There isn't much within, but the doors are unlocked: what it has, it offers freely.

I honestly get a pretty Summer feel from the Lodge here as well, given that it provides a respite from a raging blizzard outside and so, even if it's an old and drafty cabin rather than something warm and cozy, it feels more like a bit of a Summer oasis in Winter territory than something that is really of Winter.

If you want to stick with the Lodge as the Duke's opposite, I'd suggest either making the Lodge a Summer fey and tweaking the Peckish Duke to seem more Winter-y by leaning on the imagery of overindulgence during the winter holidays (stuffing yourself for Thanksgiving/the Harvest Feast, chowing on rich meats and lots of desserts for Christmas/the Winter Solstice, drinking and partying to excess for New Year's Eve/the Dawn of the Year, etc.) and specifically positioning him as someone who's excessive in the face of barren lands and others' deprivation, or tweaking the Lodge to be more Winter-y by making it, say, a cool and shady cabin next to a frigid and refreshing lake in the middle of a too-sunny forest on a too-hot day somewhere on the boundary between Summer and Winter, so that the party immediately feels that the Lodge is of Winter rather than merely its surroundings.


The question remains, by what mechanism can Leo gain an audience with the Lodge, and how can the rest of the party be there, too? What makes sense to me is that he needs a MacGuffin of some kind that can be found in the city in order to induce a trance in which he can meet the Lodge, and that MacGuffin needs to be stolen. What is that MacGuffin, who has it, and how can it be used to gain an audience with the Lodge? It can't belong to a wizard or be in a wizard's tower, I'm afraid, they already did a wizard's tower break-in earlier in the campaign.

If the Duke is all about living in luxury and indulging oneself, then perhaps the Lodge is all about humbling oneself to aid others, so instead of stealing some sort of MacGuffin for his own benefit he needs to obtain something that is freely given and offer it to the Lodge. Keeping to the themes of meager food and humility, perhaps he needs to lower himself to dress in rags and beg for food from a wealthy merchant, or convince a duchess to talk with him over slices of her favorite kind of pie from childhood, or something along those lines. Basically, if they're currently in a period of rest, roleplaying, and reflection, then a social mission seems to fit better than a heist one.

There are still plenty of ways to get the rest of the party involved with a more social quest. The merchants might employ guards to keep out the riffraff, so the warlock would need them to distract or remove the guards so he can reach the merchants to beg from them--and he might need to use them as fellow beggars to ensure they get enough food to hit the Lodge's quota. The duchess might be cold and reserved and not at all the sentimental sort, so the warlock would need the party to disguise themselves as servants to sneak into her manor, figure out her favorite kind of pie, sneak into the kitchen, bake said pie, and serve it to the duchess and the warlock while the latter is disguised as a duke wishing to make a business deal with her. There are bunches of directions you can take things, and that kind of non-violent "reverse heist" setup would probably be a nice change of pace regardless.

TheStranger
2020-11-18, 09:22 PM
I honestly get a pretty Summer feel from the Lodge here as well, given that it provides a respite from a raging blizzard outside and so, even if it's an old and drafty cabin rather than something warm and cozy, it feels more like a bit of a Summer oasis in Winter territory than something that is really of Winter.

I think the Lodge can be very much of Winter depending on how you spin it, and that's what I was thinking of in my earlier post. Have you ever gone into a cabin that's been sitting empty for weeks in the winter? When not just the air, but the wood, the brick, the furniture, everything is ice cold? You light a fire, but it takes hours to drive the chill out of the structure enough for anything other than the space right around the fireplace to be even remotely warm. That's what the Lodge could be. It can evoke life at the mercy of Winter, not a warm and cozy respite. Which makes it a good counterpart to the Duke, because it represents privation rather than excess.

I like TeChameleon's idea that the Lodge is part of the folklore of the impoverished as a way to introduce it, and something one of the sailors could tell Leo about.

"Your kind don't know this, but if you live on the streets you learn there's always shelter if you're desperate enough. Chant 'cold as fire, warm as ice' three times, and the Caretaker will come to take you to the Lodge. 'Course, nothing comes free. Accept the Lodge's hospitality, and it never releases you. Curses you, somehow, and you can't get ahead no matter what you do - you'll live on the edge of starvation the rest of your days. 'Course, for most who go to the Lodge the edge of starvation's a step up.

There was a whore back in Caldara years ago. Word was she had stayed in the Lodge once. Good looking girl, no pox, but she was selling herself for coppers on the docks and barely getting any custom at that. I had her once, when I first went ashore there. Midsummer, but her skin was cold as ice. Like laying with a dead thing, it was. Heard she killed herself that winter - just stepped off the long pier in January, rest her soul.

I ain't one to judge, mind you. When the snow blows and you're huddled in a doorway praying for the sun to rise, you do what you have to do. But me, I'd die first and hope for something better on the other side, Umberlee take me if I'm lying. Still, the Lodge is open to everybody, so it's up to you - just how desperate are you?"

PairO'Dice Lost
2020-11-18, 10:50 PM
I think the Lodge can be very much of Winter depending on how you spin it, and that's what I was thinking of in my earlier post. Have you ever gone into a cabin that's been sitting empty for weeks in the winter? When not just the air, but the wood, the brick, the furniture, everything is ice cold? You light a fire, but it takes hours to drive the chill out of the structure enough for anything other than the space right around the fireplace to be even remotely warm. That's what the Lodge could be. It can evoke life at the mercy of Winter, not a warm and cozy respite. Which makes it a good counterpart to the Duke, because it represents privation rather than excess.

It's not so much the characteristics of the cabin itself that make it lean Summer to me, it's the fact that it's explicitly sheltering from a blizzard (the archetypal example of Winter's wrath). A cabin that's decrepit and abandoned like that in the middle of a snow-covered moor next to a frozen lake, that feels like part of Winter rather than protection from Winter, would also be a good direction to take things.

TheStranger
2020-11-19, 07:02 AM
It's not so much the characteristics of the cabin itself that make it lean Summer to me, it's the fact that it's explicitly sheltering from a blizzard (the archetypal example of Winter's wrath). A cabin that's decrepit and abandoned like that in the middle of a snow-covered moor next to a frozen lake, that feels like part of Winter rather than protection from Winter, would also be a good direction to take things.
Yeah I admit that I’m taking a few liberties with OP’s description and I’m mostly in agreement with you. An archfey of Winter shouldn’t be offering a place of warmth and safety, and no fey should just be giving it away with no strings attached. Both of which are why I took it the direction I did. But I think that concept of “just enough shelter to survive Winter, not to escape from Winter” works as well in a blizzard as any other Winter setting. If you’re huddled under a thin blanket in a drafty cottage while the wind howls down the chimney and threatens to put your fire out, you’re in Winter. But if you’re in a warm and cozy chalet and untouched by the storm, I 100% agree with you.

Another idea to tie the Lodge to the Duke would be to make the building itself the Winter version of the Duke’s hunting lodge. In Summer, the Duke comes here to gorge himself on boar and venison, but in Winter it’s cold and empty, the larder bare except for a few overlooked potatoes.

Batcathat
2020-11-19, 07:28 AM
Yeah I admit that I’m taking a few liberties with OP’s description and I’m mostly in agreement with you. An archfey of Winter shouldn’t be offering a place of warmth and safety, and no fey should just be giving it away with no strings attached. Both of which are why I took it the direction I did. But I think that concept of “just enough shelter to survive Winter, not to escape from Winter” works as well in a blizzard as any other Winter setting. If you’re huddled under a thin blanket in a drafty cottage while the wind howls down the chimney and threatens to put your fire out, you’re in Winter. But if you’re in a warm and cozy chalet and untouched by the storm, I 100% agree with you.

A cozy chalet in the middle of a snow storm could be a metaphor for Winter showing mercy though (while also showing what happens when they don't show it).


Another idea to tie the Lodge to the Duke would be to make the building itself the Winter version of the Duke’s hunting lodge. In Summer, the Duke comes here to gorge himself on boar and venison, but in Winter it’s cold and empty, the larder bare except for a few overlooked potatoes.

This idea is pretty cool though, I would probably go with this. Works well as a way to show the differences between Summer and Winter (while also making both of them seem pretty scary, in their own ways).