House Rules for a few spells

[sir_argo]

I've always thought some spells needed a bit of tweaking. I don't think that's unusual. Here are some that I've considered, and I'd like to know if there are any "gotchas" in these that would imbalance the game.

First, I want to make some conditions level-based instead of all-or-nothing. Currently, spells such as Lesser Restoration technically cure any disease. I want to make some conditions require a higher level casting of Lesser Restoration to succeed. So a simple disease can be cured by a normal casting of Lesser Restoration using a 2nd level slot, a more sinister disease, such as Merten's Withering Death, would require Lesser Restoration with a 7th level spell slot to cure. Probably a better example would be that Arcane Lock can be cast with a higher level slot and would only be effected by a Knock spell cast with the same or higher level slot. The following spells would fall within this rule (list might not be complete):

Lesser Restoration
Protection from Poison
Remove Curse
Blindness/Deafness
Arcane Lock
Knock

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Zone of Truth: Add a spell component, 500gp Lapis Lazuli. Additionally, any creature that succeeds in its saving throw automatically succeeds any further saving throws for this casting of ZoT for the remainder of the duration of the spell.

Banishment: Any creature native to another place can choose not to return when the spell duration ends.

Darkness: When cast, the cast can choose if creatures with darkvision will be able to see through the darkness or not.

Blindness/Deafness: When cast at a higher level, the caster can use each additional spell slot level to either effect an additional creature or make the spell require one higher spell slot level to cure (see level-based conditions above).


I don't see any of these changes being game breaking, but I am interested if anybody can see a way they could be.

[KorvinStarmast]

So a simple disease can be cured by a normal casting of Lesser Restoration using a 2nd level slot, a more sinister disease, such as Merten's Withering Death, would require Lesser Restoration with a 7th level spell slot to cure.
Needlessly penal.

[Amnestic]

Zone of Truth: Add a spell component, 500gp Lapis Lazuli.


Can you explain the reasoning behind this change? ZoT's already a very niche spell. I can understand the "one save success" part (though I might amend it to 'while you remain in the area', potentially, forcing a new save if you exit+re-enter?) but the expensive component doesn't seem necessary. Can you elaborate?

[sithlordnergal]

Zone of Truth: Add a spell component, 500gp Lapis Lazuli. Additionally, any creature that succeeds in its saving throw automatically succeeds any further saving throws for this casting of ZoT for the remainder of the duration of the spell.


That seems a bit...odd. Why give these restrictions to a niche spell that can be effectively replicated by a Deception vs. Insight check? ZoT doesn't really do much more than an Insight check since it doesn't compel people to answer.


As for a houserule spell, Hex and Hunter's Mark should not be Concentration.

[sir_argo]

Zone of Truth bypasses the Deception skill entirely. It essentially give a 100% ability to detect lies. There is no reason why any organization wouldn't make ample use of the spell to ensure their people are loyal. Kings and Queens would almost assuredly have access to the spell and would use it to ensure their advisors are completely trustworthy. The change to the spell makes it impractical to use prolifically. It makes it too expensive to cast routinely. So it's use would end up being only in very important circumstances.

[Bilbron]

Zone of Truth bypasses the Deception skill entirely. It essentially give a 100% ability to detect lies. There is no reason why any organization wouldn't make ample use of the spell to ensure their people are loyal. Kings and Queens would almost assuredly have access to the spell and would use it to ensure their advisors are completely trustworthy. The change to the spell makes it impractical to use prolifically. It makes it too expensive to cast routinely. So it's use would end up being only in very important circumstances.

Jeez. How did you butcher Detect Thoughts, and how much do you charge for Truth Serum?

[sithlordnergal]

Zone of Truth bypasses the Deception skill entirely. It essentially give a 100% ability to detect lies. There is no reason why any organization wouldn't make ample use of the spell to ensure their people are loyal. Kings and Queens would almost assuredly have access to the spell and would use it to ensure their advisors are completely trustworthy. The change to the spell makes it impractical to use prolifically. It makes it too expensive to cast routinely. So it's use would end up being only in very important circumstances.

I mean...expertise with Insight basically gives you the same exact thing, then stack Guidance on top of it and unless you have an exceptional Deception then you'll always detect a lie. It is useful, don't get me wrong, but ZoT is no where near worth the cost you've given, not by a long shot.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Zone of Truth bypasses the Deception skill entirely. It essentially give a 100% ability to detect lies. There is no reason why any organization wouldn't make ample use of the spell to ensure their people are loyal. Kings and Queens would almost assuredly have access to the spell and would use it to ensure their advisors are completely trustworthy. The change to the spell makes it impractical to use prolifically. It makes it too expensive to cast routinely. So it's use would end up being only in very important circumstances.
For a counterpoint, see pretty much any fantasy story that involves the fae-- not being able to tell a direct lie isn't even remotely close to telling the truth.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Zone of Truth: Add a spell component, 500gp Lapis Lazuli. Additionally, any creature that succeeds in its saving throw automatically succeeds any further saving throws for this casting of ZoT for the remainder of the duration of the spell.

Banishment: Any creature native to another place can choose not to return when the spell duration ends.

Darkness: When cast, the cast can choose if creatures with darkvision will be able to see through the darkness or not.

Blindness/Deafness: When cast at a higher level, the caster can use each additional spell slot level to either effect an additional creature or make the spell require one higher spell slot level to cure (see level-based conditions above).

ZoT: I didn't see much point, since you didn't initially mention that the component is consumed. Just a little tax to save up the 500gp, like some other spells. But with a consumable component, I think you'll basically guarantee that the spell doesn't darken the door of your campaign...which seems to be your goal?

Banishment: Sure, makes sense.

Darkness: I always thought there should be a way to create regular darkness with a spell. Always thought along the lines of a separate spell, but this works too.

Blindness/Deafness: Why? What's the point? It's a 1 minute duration, with a new save every 6 seconds anyway. And generally speaking, an upcast spell is already treated as the level of the spell slot used. So you're just nerfing it under your new rules, changing it from doing both the additional person and the higher level to cure with an upcast slot, into only 1 of the 2 effects.

[sir_argo]

ZoT: I didn't see much point, since you didn't initially mention that the component is consumed. Just a little tax to save up the 500gp, like some other spells. But with a consumable component, I think you'll basically guarantee that the spell doesn't darken the door of your campaign...which seems to be your goal?

Banishment: Sure, makes sense.

Darkness: I always thought there should be a way to create regular darkness with a spell. Always thought along the lines of a separate spell, but this works too.

Blindness/Deafness: Why? What's the point? It's a 1 minute duration, with a new save every 6 seconds anyway. And generally speaking, an upcast spell is already treated as the level of the spell slot used. So you're just nerfing it under your new rules, changing it from doing both the additional person and the higher level to cure with an upcast slot, into only 1 of the 2 effects.

You are correct, I failed to mention the gem is consumed.

Blindness/Deafness, you are also correct. The spell is really only included in the list because it fits in with the level-based idea but already has it's own When Cast at Higher Level text. I had to clarify that you have a choice. Casting Blindness/Deafness with a higher level slot to make it harder to dispel isn't very practical. The spells such as Arcane Lock, Lesser Restoration and Remove Curse make more sense with level-based casting.

[Samayu]

Zone of Truth: Add a [consumable] spell component, 500gp Lapis Lazuli.

Zone of Truth bypasses the Deception skill entirely. It essentially give a 100% ability to detect lies. There is no reason why any organization wouldn't make ample use of the spell to ensure their people are loyal. Kings and Queens would almost assuredly have access to the spell and would use it to ensure their advisors are completely trustworthy. The change to the spell makes it impractical to use prolifically. It makes it too expensive to cast routinely. So it's use would end up being only in very important circumstances.

I guess that would work to make it so only kings use the spell. Too bad, because it can occasionally make for an interesting encounter. But since "the truth" can be stretched under the effects, said king would still need insight rolls to detect BS.

The spell only lasts ten minutes. How many 2nd level slots does a court mage have, anyway?

But anyway, don't nerf things for the players, just because kings can abuse the spell.

[Kane0]

Is Protection from poison that much if a deal in your games? I’ve never really seen it used, making it less useful against higher level poisons would make it even more rare

[Lokishade]

Putting costly components on non-combat spells will just make the players leave them in the dust.

There is a reason why RP spells are so powerful and that's to reward players for creative thinking. Punish that and you'll soon have a table where every caster will just buy a magic focus and spam Fireball mindlessly.