Horizon Walker multiclass options

[adb82]

Hello everyone,
i was thinking about how and if multiclass an Horizon Walker using only phb and of course xanatar.

I thought about 3 different paths:

1) dip nature cleric
2) dip barbarian
3) dip rogue

Assuming to have the requested stats, and starting from lv 9, my point is i don't know at which point and for how many levels it's good to dip.

While that "haste" at LV 9 it's really good and the HW ability on lv 11 is what makes he be an HW, that would suggest to go straight HW till LV 11.

At same time dip 3 lv barbarian give you resistance nearly to everything, boost damage, and free advantage, even the rage is also a bonus action and nornally HW has this action pretty busy...but it's anyway once per combat use. I think all this can be really useful before lv 11...something like HW5/BARB 3/HW12 can work? Or still better go straight HW at least till LV 9? There are better options than bear totem?

The rogue gives you sneak attack, cunning action (again bonus action), expertise, an archetype (not sure about which, any suggestions pls?) evasion and others nice things if you go on...maybe here it's enough to stop HW 11/ROGUE 9 for get good boost damage from sneak attack. Also about this, when start to get rogue lv? At ranger 5? 9? Or 11?

For the nature cleric shillelagh is very good, spiritual weapon is again a bonus action unluckly, heavy armor not sure its worth to use bcs it affect the stealth ability and I was thinking more something with shield and rapier or finesse weapons probably. spiritual guardians require concentration as haste so I suppose haste much more better. How many lv of nature cleric? 5 is enough? Or HW11/9 nature cleric is better? Or even 1 can be enough? In case when start to get cleric levels? At 5 ranger? 9? Or 11?

Finally, what's an ideal AC for a HW? what should I expect? And is it really worth multiclass it? Consider that in my group there are a sorcerer/paladin that deal more damage than everything I saw before lol, and a cleric of life/druid very optimized, so I don't want to suck too much as their builds work even too much well. 😅

Ps other thing I was thinking: it would work with an heavy crossbow (useless use an hand crossbow as the 3rd attack is again a bonus action), crossbow expert and shapershooter? I suppose HW is made more for close combat but with crossbow expert he can attack at 5 feat without any malus and use anyway shapershooter if at least 10 ft from the target? Or it's better go sword and board for the lack of AC (I'm worry about damage output it's kinda low without mc rogue or barb)? And what about GWF (maybe this work better with the barbarian mc for the damage resistance that help with the lack of ac). Do you think it work better with a dex build? Or a str build?

Thank you everyone for the help.

[Gtdead]

Horizon Walker is the most tricky ranger to find a good level to multiclass out of IMO.

Level 9 gives you Haste
Level 10 sucks.
Level 11 gives you an amazing subclass feature.
Level 12 gives you ASI, and if you went either CE/SS or SS/Alert as I like to do it, or you didn't play a vhuman, you need the ASI to max DEX.
Level 13 gives you Conjure Woodland Beings and Guardian of Nature
Level 14 gives you vanish which is effectively cunning action: hide and may allow you to attack 3 times per turn with advantage if you haste yourself.
Level 15 gives you something like uncanny dodge.

After that I think multiclassing is a good option.

Level 16 gives you an ASI. You may not have anything important to get by then.
Level 17 gives you level 5 spells. I kind of like Tree Stride.
Level 18 gives you feral senses. There is something to be said about fighting under obscured vision with both Alert and Feral Senses, but I haven't played it on my mind much.
Level 19 gives you a level 5 spell slot (second weakest level till now in my opinion)
Level 20 gives you foe slayer. (...)

Disclaimer: I'm not familiar with the revised ranger, this is only for the phb ranger.

All in all, I'd say that no matter if you are Ranged or Melee, Horizon Walker's level 11 ability is worth it. If unlike me, you have maxed dex by lvl 8, perhaps level 11 is the best level to MC out of Ranger into AT because you gain similar things. I don't like the other options, but if you'd want to MC into something else, I think it would worth it after lvl 15
I'm happy with a horizon walker 20. It's the only ranger archetype that I think scales well to these levels.

[Silpharon]

If you can get away with just 3 ASIs:

Horizon Walker 12/Assassin 3/Tempest Cleric 2/Eldritch Knight 3

I'd pick up shield, find familiar, and absorb elements from Eldritch Knight.
Use Haste with concentration, occasionally pairing with Action Surge for massive damage.

Why Assassin and Tempest Cleric? Lightning Arrow!
With Assassin, all your attacks on the first turn if you surprise them will roll advantage and be auto-crits. You'd be a 9th level caster, so you'd have 1 level 5 spell slot. That's 6d8 for the base attack upcasted. Sneak attack adds 2d6. With Assassin, get the drop and you get an auto-crit, so now you're at 12d8+4d6. Use Tempest Cleric's Destructive Wrath, and all that damage is maxed. So there's 120 flat lightning damage. Then add the 4d8 extra lightning damage effect for 18 avg additional damage. Then keep attacking...with Action Surge... You can get 5 more critical, advantaged attacks in if you spread the damage, easily getting you above 200 damage in a single turn.

Fun times

[Nidgit]

I really like a Horizon Walker/Spores Druid multiclass, but you're limited to PHB and XTE...

I feel like I'd stay away from Barbarian unless you have a particular concept in mind. Rage interferes with Hunter's Mark and delays the Horizon Walker's psychic damage, which means you'll just be acting as a low level Barbarian for a turn or two each combat. It doesn't add much unless you're utilizing the Horizon Walker's 11th level ability a lot.

Rogue almost always gels with Ranger. That said, most subclass abilities don't play nice with Horizon Walker. I'd suggest Arcane Trickster or Swashbuckler as options (it'd be a level 20 ability but Panache couple actually work quite nicely with your teleports to make you an incredibly annoying tank).

Cleric can be pretty good. Forge Cleric seems like the best choice to me, but Nature is fine as well as Light, Life, and Tempest. If you can find a way to have your normal attacks deal lightning damage, teleporting around the field pushing people left and right would give you a delightful amount of battlefield control with Tempest Cleric.

Fighter might not be at the top of your list but it's a fantastic 2-3 level dip for Rangers. Add Action Surge, a second Fighting Style, and a subclass ability and you're golden.

[saucerhead]

If you haven't looked at it yet, the ultimate optimizer guide by PeteNutButter is really good for suggestions, especially if your other party members are really optimizing.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?502248-Ultimate-Optimizer-s-Multiclassing-Guide#:~:text=Ultimate%20Optimizer%27s%20Multiclas sing%20Guide%20%20%20x%20,%20%20Cleric%2FWarlock%2 0%208%20more%20rows%20

[adb82]

I really like a Horizon Walker/Spores Druid multiclass, but you're limited to PHB and XTE...

I feel like I'd stay away from Barbarian unless you have a particular concept in mind. Rage interferes with Hunter's Mark and delays the Horizon Walker's psychic damage, which means you'll just be acting as a low level Barbarian for a turn or two each combat. It doesn't add much unless you're utilizing the Horizon Walker's 11th level ability a lot.

Rogue almost always gels with Ranger. That said, most subclass abilities don't play nice with Horizon Walker. I'd suggest Arcane Trickster or Swashbuckler as options (it'd be a level 20 ability but Panache couple actually work quite nicely with your teleports to make you an incredibly annoying tank).

Cleric can be pretty good. Forge Cleric seems like the best choice to me, but Nature is fine as well as Light, Life, and Tempest. If you can find a way to have your normal attacks deal lightning damage, teleporting around the field pushing people left and right would give you a delightful amount of battlefield control with Tempest Cleric.

Fighter might not be at the top of your list but it's a fantastic 2-3 level dip for Rangers. Add Action Surge, a second Fighting Style, and a subclass ability and you're golden.

How the forge cleric mc work? It gives +2 ac using heavy armor (even I think I'll not use heavy armor bcs I'm the one with stealth, so probably just +1), and some damage boost at the end...plus of course cleric spells. the rogue looks like give more benefits maybe (except I forgot some cleric spells really important) ...Am I'm missing something?

[adb82]

Ok, I think I'll go for 11 lv HW than 9 LV rogue...use the teleport ability for stay out of malee combats and get to be more close for the PW damage (30'), heavy crossbow and with haste would be fun teleport 10' every attack and make 5 attacks + or - everywhere on the map...with +13 to hit actually I shouldn't have problem to use shapershooter after I got the SA and PW damage first...when I have no haste zephyr strike is also a great spell to use. At LV 13 i would get 4th LV spell if I go on HW, but not sure I need it, seem like haste it's better for me than nature guardian and 2 lv of ranger more make my SA 1D6 weaker.
Thinking about 3 lv of warrior instead than 9 lv of rogue, arcane shooter or battle master (which one?), I'll get 4 lb spells like this, But seem to have a huge less of medium damage, isn't it? Maybe it work better with 11 HW/6 swashbuckler/3 arcane shooter, what do you think about?

And also about the rogue archetype I still have some doubt, AT it's the one way to get shield spell (best spell of this edition lol) and some slots more, but using a ranged character maybe it's not the most needed one.

The swashbuckler give me panache at LV 20 that fits good with horizon walker even it arrive late, easier sneak attack (be at 5', it never said I need to attack with malee weapon, and teleporting is easy to be between 5' of enemies and than run away) + cha to iniziative (it can become +3 if i put my last 2 asis in cha, actually I only have +1).

Im thinking also about scout, half movement if some enemy end his turn within 5' looks good (but I suppose END HIS TURN mean i can take my reaction only after he attack me, and not when he first move), double proficiency in nature and survival it's never bad, and increased movement at the end also seem good for someone that in practice almost never suffer opportunity attacks.

Which do you think is better? I like all those concepts, but maybe the most useful one keep being swashbuckler?

[RogueJK]

For the nature cleric shillelagh is very good, spiritual weapon is again a bonus action unluckly, heavy armor not sure its worth to use bcs it affect the stealth ability and I was thinking more something with shield and rapier or finesse weapons probably. spiritual guardians require concentration as haste so I suppose haste much more better. How many lv of nature cleric? 5 is enough? Or HW11/9 nature cleric is better? Or even 1 can be enough? In case when start to get cleric levels? At 5 ranger? 9? Or 11?


Ranger 5/Cleric X is the usual split, typically going Ranger 1/Cleric 1 -> Ranger 5/Cleric 1 -> Ranger 5/Cleric X. (Starting whichever class gets you the save proficiencies you want.)

With the Horizon Walker specifically, as stated, there's some competition for your Bonus Action between Spiritual Weapon and Planar Warrior. But you won't be casting Spiritual Weapon in every single fight anyway, so Planar Warrior can still a good backup even after you hit Cleric 3+, and if going the above progression it'll be your main Bonus Action option from Level 4 (C1/R3) through Level 8 (C3/R5).

And unlike some of the earlier Ranger subclasses, there's enough incentive in Horizon Walker to stick to Ranger past Level 5, even if dipping Cleric. So I think if I were multiclassing Cleric with Horizon Walker, I'd either stop at 1 level of Cleric, or perhaps go up to Cleric 5 for 3rd level spells like Spirit Guardians. But it sounds like you really want HW 7, HW 9 (for Haste), and HW 11 as quickly as possible, so perhaps just the 1 level dip only early on (if that).

I say "if that" because if what you're primarily interested in is the Druid cantrip from Nature Cleric, you can achieve that with the new Druidic Warrior Fighting Style in Tasha's that grants a Ranger 2x Druid cantrips, without multiclassing.

[adb82]

Ranger 5/Cleric X is the usual split, typically going Ranger 1/Cleric 1 -> Ranger 5/Cleric 1 -> Ranger 5/Cleric X. (Starting whichever class gets you the save proficiencies you want.)

With the Horizon Walker specifically, as stated, there's some competition for your Bonus Action between Spiritual Weapon and Planar Warrior. But you won't be casting Spiritual Weapon in every single fight anyway, so Planar Warrior can still a good backup even after you hit Cleric 3+, and if going the above progression it'll be your main Bonus Action option from Level 4 (C1/R3) through Level 8 (C3/R5).

And unlike some of the earlier Ranger subclasses, there's enough incentive in Horizon Walker to stick to Ranger past Level 5, even if dipping Cleric. So I think if I were multiclassing Cleric with Horizon Walker, I'd either stop at 1 level of Cleric, or perhaps go up to Cleric 5 for 3rd level spells like Spirit Guardians. But it sounds like you really want HW 7, HW 9 (for Haste), and HW 11 as quickly as possible, so perhaps just the 1 level dip only early on (if that).

I say "if that" because if what you're primarily interested in is the Druid cantrip from Nature Cleric, you can achieve that with the new Druidic Warrior Fighting Style in Tasha's that grants a Ranger 2x Druid cantrips, without multiclassing.

Yep, the plan was to get lv 11 HW ASAP bcs I would like to use the teleport ability, but seem cleric delay it at least one lv, while dip rogue or fighter (or both) don't give me this problem...so after 11 lv HW I can:

Dip 9 LV rogue getting 5d6 sneak attack, uncanny dodge, evasion, expertise + an archetype

Dip just 3 LV of fighter getting action surge, a fighting style and an archetype and getting spells lv4

Dip 6 lv rogue and 3 fighter make me get anyway 3d6 SA, lose evasion but still getting fighter things

Dip 7 lv rogue and 2 fighter give me 4d6 SA plus action surge, evasion, fighting style but lose the fighter archetype.

This last way seem to me the best option, allowing me with haste and action surge to make 3 actions in one turn, keeping enough good SA, giving me evasion and a boost to AC due fighting style.
Is it correct?

[adb82]

How should I go after 11 lv of HW?
3 rogue/2 fighter/4rogue?
7 rogue/2 fighter?
2 fighter/7 rogue?
4 rogue/2 fighter/3 rogue for earlier asi?

Also HW 13/1 Rogue/2 fighter/4 rogue...is a temptation to get 4th LV spells and so nature guardian and an asi if I count it well...but I'm not that sure it's so worth it to lose SA dice and make in general the rogue enter the build too late.

[Silpharon]

How should I go after 11 lv of HW?
3 rogue/2 fighter/4rogue?
7 rogue/2 fighter?
2 fighter/7 rogue?
4 rogue/2 fighter/3 rogue for earlier asi?

Also HW 13/1 Rogue/2 fighter/4 rogue...is a temptation to get 4th LV spells and so nature guardian and an asi if I count it well...but I'm not that sure it's so worth it to lose SA dice and make in general the rogue enter the build too late.

I decided that HW 13 wasn't worth it since you already got Haste at level 9. Unless of course you were doing some Glyph of Warding or Ring of Spell Storing shenanigans to get both buffs...

I'd probably go 2 fighter/7 rogue. The benefits come sooner with fighter under your belt.

[adb82]

I decided that HW 13 wasn't worth it since you already got Haste at level 9. Unless of course you were doing some Glyph of Warding or Ring of Spell Storing shenanigans to get both buffs...

I'd probably go 2 fighter/7 rogue. The benefits come sooner with fighter under your belt.

Yes you are probably right, guardian of nature is not good as haste (but I was also thinking that the sorcerer/paladin soon can cast haste on 2 of us at same time, so I should have chances to use guardian of nature and haste at same time, bcs she ll rarely haste the cleric), even it's a fantastic spell anyway and in this moment even without SA my damage output is good, so fighter gives benefits faster...that asi it's not so needed, I used my other 3 asis for max dex, crossbow expert and sharpshooter, seem don't need much more...maybe resilient wis or cha or +2 wis or cha (16 and 12 Actually)...

About the rogue subclass, I can't decide between assassin (great boost to first round) and swashbuckler (some initiative, and almost sure SA + the chance to dont get opportunity attacks against a creature without use spells, that probably I'll use few, but he hits anyway with +10 in malee with a finesse weapon +1)...maybe assassin is the best way anyway.

Nice the idea to add tempest cleric, but I would have serious problems to role a character like that 😅 involve also a cult in this character seem really difficult, and why storm? 🤔 I should think about a bg that honestly seem too complicated for explain this in game...