Farming dragon parts

[Conradine]

I was thinking...

since dragon body parts are quite valuable ( skin, bones, blood, organs, even eggs ) couldn't be convenient to just capture one ( not too powerful ) and "farm" him?

Blood could be harvested in small quantities even without magical healing. Even marrow ( with adequate instruments ).

Skin should regrow with most healing spells, so even a Cure Light Wound would allow to periodically skin him alive.

With potent enough magical healing ( probably, at least Cure Serious Wound or more ) it should be possible to harvest dragon liver ( it regrows ).

Monstrous Regeneration ( Clr 5 ) open the way to harvesting small body parts, like fingers, eyes, horns, claws, teeth or genitalia.

And at the top, with Regenerate ( Clr 7 ) it becomes possible to harvest organs, bones and even whole limbs!


It could be possible to equip a small army, fuel an alchemy laboratory or simply become quite rich with a simple dragon and some ingenuity.
Did anybody had similar ideas?

[Ashiel]

If you're looking into being a dragon-rancher, may I suggest using half-dragons? Half-dragons can be incredibly large without being particularly ancient, since they're based on the size of base creature. If you're looking for a "humane" option, half-dragon giant vermin are still mindless IIRC, or Int 2 at the most, which would make them pretty similar to raising fire-breathing goats for meat or something. Half-dragons are of the dragon-type and have an associated breath weapon element, meaning they're great for dragon-hide armor.

That said, non-vermin half-dragons are at least Int 3, which means you might actually just be able to convince them to allow you to farm them, within reason. Depending on how valuable their easily renewable assets are, they might be willing to simply split the profits with you to expand their hoard in exchange for you actually performing the procedure and mending them up (essentially like how humans donate blood and plasma for payment). Flaying them alive seems a bit unlikely in this case, unless perhaps you anesthetize them using drow poison or its equivalent (which they willingly fail the saving throw for) so they'll be KO'd for an hour while you perform your work and use the appropriate healing spells.

If they're less interested in gold, you might pay them in livestock. Cattle are only about 10 gp per cow, so you could probably keep your business partner fat and happy and still turn a profit depending on things.

[Conradine]

I don't know if half dragon parts have the same properties of true dragon material, I'm pretty sure there's no official documentation on that.
For harvesting eggs, artificial insemination ( like with cows ) could be a solution.

[Ashiel]

I don't know if half dragon parts have the same properties of true dragon material, I'm pretty sure there's no official documentation on that.
For harvesting eggs, artificial insemination ( like with cows ) could be a solution.

I know they're good enough for dragonhide armor, which is the only core dragon-specific material that I recall. Not really sure what things like blood are worth specifically, but figured there's a good chance that lesser wyrms like half-dragons are more plentiful and easier to deal with than true dragons for a variety reasons. As such, thought it might be worth a try. They are of the dragon-type, so anything that is simply true of dragons is also true of them unless specified otherwise. :smallsmile:

[Quertus]

It's kinda a great evil overlord strategy - intimidate would-be rebels with "the last being to oppose me - this dragon - is now skinned daily to produce armor for my Legions of Doom. Are you *sure* you want to see how creative I can get with *your* punishment?".

[Ashiel]

It's kinda a great evil overlord strategy - intimidate would-be rebels with "the last being to oppose me - this dragon - is now skinned daily to produce armor for my Legions of Doom. Are you *sure* you want to see how creative I can get with *your* punishment?".

It wouldn't be terribly far off base from things I've seen in other settings. In Warcraft, Alexstraza the dragon was imprisoned by orcs and forcefully bred over and over and over for her dragon eggs. Either way, the villain is probably sufficiently into that guy territory for the PCs to really dislike them.

[Celestia]

Oh, this is really quite easy, though it depends on which dragon you're trying to farm parts for. Farosh is most easily farmed at Lake Hylia. It usually appears after midnight. Just hang out near the north gate, climb it when Farosh appears, and then wait until the dragon circles right in front of you.

Dinraal is also easy to farm. Just go to the Tabantha stable, wait until morning, then head for the bridge. Dinraal passes right underneath it.

Naydra is a little tougher, but the best farming spot is probably the Lanayru Pomenade. Naydra passes through in the morning, so just wait on the cliffs above the promenade.

[Zombimode]

First, be sure to check out the rules for harvesting dragon body parts in the Draconomicon in order to align your expectations with reality.

Now, on to the comments:


I was thinking...

since dragon body parts are quite valuable ( skin, bones, blood, organs, even eggs ) couldn't be convenient to just capture one ( not too powerful ) and "farm" him?

Well, what exactly is "not too powerful"? Viewed on a demographic scale even very young dragons are extremely powerful and dangerous. Plus you can never know if your "farming" scheme does not draw the ire of the captured dragon's relatives. You probably don't want a 300 years old under CRed magical flying superlizards aimed specifically at you.


Blood could be harvested in small quantities even without magical healing. Even marrow ( with adequate instruments ).

See the Draconomicon for how much blood you need to do something actually interesting with it. That either implies that you have to be really picky about the blood you need, or that you can't be picky at all since you need all the blood anyway. Both cases are diffucult if you just take small quantities.


Skin should regrow with most healing spells, so even a Cure Light Wound would allow to periodically skin him alive.

Obligatory: see Draconomicon on how much "skin" you need to do something interesting with. We are not talking about "sheding some scales" or "scraping a little bit of the topmost layers of skin". We are talking about cutting away huge patches of skin and tissue up to the bone and muscle. It is questionable if that is survivable in the first place. Even if, skin is an organ and wounds of that magnitude may be outside the scope of Cure spells. Regeneration might be needed.


With potent enough magical healing ( probably, at least Cure Serious Wound or more ) it should be possible to harvest dragon liver ( it regrows ).

Normal healing spells do not replace lost body parts of that magnitude. You need Regeneration for this.
But why the liver, explicitly? Is there anything that runs of dragon livers?
Do dragons even have livers? In many settings a dragons existence transcends the physical into the metaphysical. For instance: while dragons need to eat, they can eat practically everything and gain sustenence from rather ridiculously small quantities of "food" (which may consist entirely of morning dew).


Monstrous Regeneration ( Clr 5 ) open the way to harvesting small body parts, like fingers, eyes, horns, claws, teeth or genitalia.

Yes, some kind of regeneration effect is our best bet here.



It could be possible to equip a small army, fuel an alchemy laboratory or simply become quite rich with a simple dragon and some ingenuity.
Did anybody had similar ideas?

Even ignoring the question if "farmed" dragon parts have the same "quality" as "earned" dragon parts, I don't think that the rather large risks are worth the only modest profits.

[Conradine]

Well, what exactly is "not too powerful"? Viewed on a demographic scale even very young dragons are extremely powerful and dangerous. Plus you can never know if your "farming" scheme does not draw the ire of the captured dragon's relatives. You probably don't want a 300 years old under CRed magical flying superlizards aimed specifically at you.

I was thinking about a white dragon wyrmling. Since white dragons are the only ones who leave their eggs scattered around and don't care about their relatives. Mabye you could buy one from frost giants.



But why the liver, explicitly?

Because the liver naturally grows back.

[Ashiel]

It occurred to me that it might actually be profitable to simply clone a very large dragon for your needs. It costs 1,000 gp in material components and a 500 gp lab focus, but otherwise you just create a dead duplicate of the creature you're cloning. At 1,000 gp a pop, that's probably cheap enough to turn a profit from a sufficiently large dragon. All you need to clone a creature is a bit of its flesh, and once you have that you're off to the races. You don't even have to deal with the moral implications of using a live subject 'cause you're essentially growing a dead dragon in your laboratory over 2d4 days.

EDIT: Incidentally, this might also be a pretty good way to keep a regular supply of really beefy corpses for use with necromancy magics.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Zombimode
Plus you can never know if your "farming" scheme does not draw the ire of the captured dragon's relatives.

Pretty sure this would forestall the dragon-farming right from the get-go.

And/or a paladin of Bahamut who objects to your unethical dragonkeeping practices.

[Quertus]

Pretty sure this would forestall the dragon-farming right from the get-go.

And/or a paladin of Bahamut who objects to your unethical dragonkeeping practices.

Are they complaining that you didn't torture the Dragon enough :smallconfused:

[CIDE]

It occurred to me that it might actually be profitable to simply clone a very large dragon for your needs. It costs 1,000 gp in material components and a 500 gp lab focus, but otherwise you just create a dead duplicate of the creature you're cloning. At 1,000 gp a pop, that's probably cheap enough to turn a profit from a sufficiently large dragon. All you need to clone a creature is a bit of its flesh, and once you have that you're off to the races. You don't even have to deal with the moral implications of using a live subject 'cause you're essentially growing a dead dragon in your laboratory over 2d4 days.

EDIT: Incidentally, this might also be a pretty good way to keep a regular supply of really beefy corpses for use with necromancy magics.

That might also help get a dragon on board in the first place. Approach them with the offer of a free clone so that they can always come back to life and you're the one putting in all the time and resources to maintaining this. Whether you're open about why you're doing this or not depends on the specific dragon and how charming you are.

[Ashiel]

That might also help get a dragon on board in the first place. Approach them with the offer of a free clone so that they can always come back to life and you're the one putting in all the time and resources to maintaining this. Whether you're open about why you're doing this or not depends on the specific dragon and how charming you are.

I mean, there's a pretty good argument to be made that doing so would reduce the number of dragon hunters by flooding the market with easily available dragon goods. That alone would probably be a good enough reason for a goodly dragon to support such things, simply because it would reduce the incentive to hunt dragons for the sake of them being dragons. The fact the dragon would also have a clone or two lying around in case it snuffed it would icing on the cake.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by CIDE
Approach them with the offer of a free clone so that they can always come back to life and you're the one putting in all the time and resources to maintaining this.

Dragons are both prideful and paranoid, so I doubt many dragons would accept this offer even if they believed it was sincere. It smacks of a trap, and dragons have no reason to trust little hairy bipeds any further than they can spit their bones.


Originally Posted by Ashiel
I mean, there's a pretty good argument to be made that doing so would reduce the number of dragon hunters by flooding the market with easily available dragon goods.

Most dragons would counter that the best way to reduce the number of dragon hunters is to eat them all.


Originally Posted by Ashiel
That alone would probably be a good enough reason for a goodly dragon to support such things, simply because it would reduce the incentive to hunt dragons for the sake of them being dragons.

A dragon inclined to logical discussion would point out that if someone is hunting dragons simply because they’re dragons, then that someone will continue hunting no matter what the status of the market may be. If that person is bent on killing dragons, they’ll keep at it regardless of who’s running a cloning program or whatnot.

Besides which, I imagine most dragons would look on the mass production of cloned dragon parts with pure distaste, if not revulsion. I could see this as a chapter in a dragon campaign, in which the dragons hunt down the hubristic little ape who defiles dragonkind by creating mockeries of their flesh.

[Ashiel]

Most dragons would counter that the best way to reduce the number of dragon hunters is to eat them all.

A dragon inclined to logical discussion would point out that if someone is hunting dragons simply because they’re dragons, then that someone will continue hunting no matter what the status of the market may be. If that person is bent on killing dragons, they’ll keep at it regardless of who’s running a cloning program or whatnot.
This assumes dragons are stupid. It's just simple reasoning that if things like dragon blood, dragon hide, dragon bones, and so forth have a practical use, then there are people who will want them and are willing to either acquire them themselves or pay people with a certain set of skills to go get them for them. Since good-aligned dragons are probably not regularly pillaging the countryside, it's probably a good bet that hunters going after them are doing so for ignoble purposes.

It's a logical fallacy to suggest that it either removes all motivation for killing dragons or it removes none of it. That's akin to saying laws shouldn't exist because there are still some people who will break them. It's absurd.


Besides which, I imagine most dragons would look on the mass production of cloned dragon parts with pure distaste, if not revulsion. I could see this as a chapter in a dragon campaign, in which the dragons hunt down the hubristic little ape who defiles dragonkind by creating mockeries of their flesh.
Probably depends on the intelligence of the dragon. I would find it mildly gross if someone was cloning human meat in a laboratory for the purposes of eating it but wouldn't have a real problem with it as long as it wasn't hurting me or anyone else. I find it less gross if they were using them for medical or commercial purposes such as growing organs for transplants, transfusions, etc.

Sure, there's probably some dragons that would be butthurt over it on principle, but there's probably plenty that aren't. Dragons aren't even a monolithic group. Plenty of dragons actively hate and kill each other, so I feel it's stretching it to suggest that the mere notion you're growing some dragon bits in a laboratory to make potions out of blood and stuff is going to innately draw the ire of a ton of dragons, especially if the original sample was given willingly.

Tangentially related, if those hubristic little apes have access to clone, there's probably a pretty good chance that trying to bully them will simply remove their need to clone your scaly butt in the first place, unless the clone is being produced by a magical machine that was crafted by a lower level caster in Pathfinder. Otherwise, it requires a 17th level arcane spellcaster, which is frankly more dangerous than all but the biggest of dragons and cooperatively getting a dragon volunteer to help with their project would be a nicety not a requirement.