Human: The other meat

[pendell]

Seen in Dezeen (https://www.dezeen.com/2020/11/13/ouroboros-steak-meal-kit-andrew-pelling-grace-knight-orkan-telhan/)



A group of American scientists and designers have developed a concept for a grow-your-own steak kit using human cells and blood to question the ethics of the cultured meat industry.

Ouroboros Steak could be grown by the diner at home using their own cells, which are harvested from the inside of their cheek and fed serum derived from expired, donated blood.

The resulting bite-sized pieces of meat, currently on display as prototypes at the Beazley Designs of the Year exhibition, are created entirely without causing harm to animals. The creators argued this cannot be said about the growing selection of cultured meat made from animal cells.


And it is indeed on display at the museum in question (https://designmuseum.org/exhibitions/beazley-designs-of-the-year/product-2020/ouroboros-steak).

So ... you can essentially make steaks from yourself? Or a loved one?

...

I think I'd prefer something a bit less , shall we say, close to home. Even if it does probably taste like chicken.

Oh, yes, "Ouroboros" is a reference to the mythical serpent that devoured itself. A fitting name, I think.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Razade]

I'd be curious how safe this is from a dietary perspective. They're doing it for a message more than viability it seems, but the tech is cool. I'd gladly go to lab grown meat if it became sustainable. Anything to shut down the mass farming of animals. Ethical meat is A+ in my mind.

[pendell]

I'd be curious how safe this is from a dietary perspective. They're doing it for a message more than viability it seems, but the tech is cool. I'd gladly go to lab grown meat if it became sustainable. Anything to shut down the mass farming of animals. Ethical meat is A+ in my mind.

I'll agree with ethical meat, but I'd still want it made from animals. If you can culture it from a human without injuring the human host you should be able to culture it from an animal as well.

Who knows? Maybe at some point we can get advanced enough in genetics so that we can culture up a t-rex steak or a wooly mammoth. If you've got enough DNA to generate a few cells, perhaps that's enough for a culture.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[sktarq]

Or just eat famous people like in the 2012 movie antiviral. (not the focus but it is in there)

honestly I very much doubt any lab grown meat would have the terrior of real meat but with the modern feedlot practices that has been mostly knocked off anyway.

would probably taste more like pork and is not really viable as the amount of blood needed far surpasses supply on a economic basis...so just silly at this point. But the technology has a lot of interesting possibilities.

and to say sampling an animal to grow lab meat is more than a bit of an ethical reach in my mind. I mean we are animals we consume and destroy life to survive. You can mess about with the how but that is what the animal kingdom does.

[comicshorse]

Seen in Dezeen (https://www.dezeen.com/2020/11/13/ouroboros-steak-meal-kit-andrew-pelling-grace-knight-orkan-telhan/)



And it is indeed on display at the museum in question (https://designmuseum.org/exhibitions/beazley-designs-of-the-year/product-2020/ouroboros-steak).

So ... you can essentially make steaks from yourself? Or a loved one?

...

I think I'd prefer something a bit less , shall we say, close to home. Even if it does probably taste like chicken.

Oh, yes, "Ouroboros" is a reference to the mythical serpent that devoured itself. A fitting name, I think.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Apparently we actually taste like pork

Oh and Arthur C Clarke kinda predicted this in his 1964 short story 'Food of the Gods'

[Fyraltari]

I'll agree with ethical meat, but I'd still want it made from animals. If you can culture it from a human without injuring the human host you should be able to culture it from an animal as well.

Who knows? Maybe at some point we can get advanced enough in genetics so that we can culture up a t-rex steak or a wooly mammoth. If you've got enough DNA to generate a few cells, perhaps that's enough for a culture.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

If we can do that with any animal, why not do it with humans? Lab-grown human meat would not carry Kuru and wouldn't be made by killing people so there's no real argument against.

This reminds me of people who are fine eating pigs, rabbits and cows but find the idea of eating horses, dogs and cats appalling somehow.

[comicshorse]

If we can do that with any animal, why not do it with humans? Lab-grown human meat would not carry Kuru and wouldn't be made by killing people so there's no real argument against.

This reminds me of people who are fine eating pigs, rabbits and cows but find the idea of eating horses, dogs and cats appalling somehow.

I think that's a cultural hang-up. Horses, dogs and cats are regarded as 'allies' and so more worthy than ordinary farm animals. Or at least they once where and the attitude still lingers

[pendell]

I think that's a cultural hang-up. Horses, dogs and cats are regarded as 'allies' and so more worthy than ordinary farm animals. Or at least they once where and the attitude still lingers

I can't speak to horses but I remember learning a bit about veterinary medicine. One of the diseases of the cat is a tapeworm. They get it by eating mice which have tapeworms, and when it enters the digestive system the tapeworm passes easily to its new host. You are what you eat.

This is why, in many cultures which have dietary prohibitions, they are pretty strict on the kind of meat they will allow. The restrictions boil down to herbivores, especially those which graze, and thus are full of nice nutritious veggies. Whereas if you eat something like a dog or a vulture or a pig, you're also picking up everything in that creature's stomach. Which is why pigs are unclean in some cultures. Pigs will eat anything. And a dog will eat its own ... well, byproduct.

Not to mention, I'm told that carnivores who have been living on meat taste absolutely horrible.

This is also, why, incidentally, there are very rarely anything like the same rules applied to vegetables or fruits or cereal grains. Meat requires very careful handling and preparation. Even in the modern world, crab or lobster or shrimp have the potential to kill you if they are prepared clumsily.

None of these objections would apply to cultured meat grown in a lab. But there is a good reason for those rules back in the day when meat had to come from living animals. Obeying them kept you alive and healthy.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Thomas Cardew]

Dogs and cats are also higher on the food chain with all the attendant risks and concentrations of toxins, heavy metals, minerals etc. There's a reason we don't eat predators beyond the physical danger of hunting them.

[sihnfahl]

If we can do that with any animal, why not do it with humans? Lab-grown human meat would not carry Kuru and wouldn't be made by killing people so there's no real argument against.
After genetic screening. Kuru is a prion disease, after all.


Not to mention, I'm told that carnivores who have been living on meat taste absolutely horrible...

There's a reason we don't eat predators beyond the physical danger of hunting them.
Tuna? Mahi-Mahi? Salmon?

[LibraryOgre]

This should not be sold in Canada. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendigo_(comics))

[pendell]

After genetic screening. Kuru is a prion disease, after all.



Tuna? Mahi-Mahi? Salmon?

I'm talking about land-based carnivores such as dogs and cats. I'm not enough of a biologist to say why the rules are different for fish -- only that most kinds of fish are supposed to be edible (with exceptions such as the pufferfish) while most shellfish require special handling. I might learn more from google later.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Thomas Cardew]

After genetic screening. Kuru is a prion disease, after all.



Tuna? Mahi-Mahi? Salmon?

Interesting you mention those, since it's a perfect case. It's also exactly correct, fish higher in the food chain have higher concentrations of mercury (heavy metal). Hence why you are recommened not to eat Tuna more than once a weak. Here's (https://www.fda.gov/food/metals-and-your-food/mercury-levels-commercial-fish-and-shellfish-1990-2012) the FDA data for mean mercury concentrations by species if you want to verify.

Edit: Stolen from wikipedia
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_in_fish#/media/File:MercuryFoodChain.svg)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/MercuryFoodChain.svg/800px-MercuryFoodChain.svg.png

[sktarq]

As for horses. A: they taste great B: they were very commonly eaten until very recently and in some areas still eaten regularly. Still on the menu in some places in France and Texas at least until recently and possibly even today. Though I'd say when they ceased to be a farm animal and were treated as pets is when people stopped thinking of them as food.
Cats were also quite commonly eaten in some places if not considered high cuisine, in Italian books there were called "roof rabbit". Dogs have mostly been driven from the diets of east asia and mexico by external cultural pressure. And it is really the thinking of them as " pets" that changes things. Especial now that few people actually have met their food, fed it, and then killed and butchered it. We mostly live at such a deep psychological distance from the act of turning a living being into food that it is reserved for animal images we don't generally deal with or choose to associate with.

As for unclean animals....it has less to do with where they are in the food chain and more do they live in human trash piles. Look at the difference between how "wild boar" and "pig" is treated or "hound" (of the kennel and selected breeding) and the "cur" who scavenged in the streets for waste and human remains....

As for carnivores not tasting as good. Errr.....not at all IME.
Chickens and ducks raised on a large proportion of invertebrates taste far better in my opinion. Basically all fish are carnivores except for a few phytoplankton feeders. I would say prosciutto (which is fed whey from parmesan cheese production instead of water) tastes even better than normal ham. And linked to that lots of people like the tender fatty beef we have today which is fed chicken and fish meal in many places and "waste" cow meal
Now my bear was probably mostly vegetarian but I've known people who have eaten bears from fish runs and also lion both of which were reported as scrumptious.

So there is little "ethical" about any such criteria.

[sihnfahl]

I'm talking about land-based carnivores such as dogs and cats.
Gator and snake, then? Both are good eating.


I'm not enough of a biologist to say why the rules are different for fish -- only that most kinds of fish are supposed to be edible (with exceptions such as the pufferfish) while most shellfish require special handling. I might learn more from google later.
Bottom feeding vs float feeders. It's why catfish in places is not a good idea.


Interesting you mention those, since it's a perfect case.
Yes, as an example, but there are still no bans / societal discouragement on it, and it's not considered unacceptable (save for watching on heavy metal accumulation and overfishing concerns).

[HandofShadows]

Apparently we actually taste like pork

There is a reason "long pork" is a euphemism for human meat. :smalleek:

[Bohandas]

Isn't this kind of thing how people get kuru?

[Fyraltari]

Isn't this kind of thing how people get kuru?

One would hope that lab meat would be subject to health and safety regulations. No prion, no kuru.

[Vinyadan]

As far as sustainability is concerned, this is useless. The blood for the serum comes from people who ate something else.

Also, this is just a concept. In other words, nothing has been done yet. The flesh is exposed, but not yet eaten, or commercially offered for eating. "No lab-grown meat has so far approved for sale in any part of the world". Laws probably would have a lot to say about adding discarded human fluids from an hospital to food meant for human consumption. And this is the point of the exposition, promoting the use of human fluids to grow e.g. bovine meat instead of bovine fluids. Which I don't think makes sense, because human fluids come from people eating. This cannot be a closed cycle.

To be frank, I find the exposition disgusting. Someone else's thick mucosa, grown on someone else's blood, suspended in a transparent fluid emulating saliva, ready for my consumption?

[sihnfahl]

One would hope that lab meat would be subject to health and safety regulations. No prion, no kuru.
Or genetic modification to remove the PrP gene on Chromosome 20.

[pendell]

To be frank, I find the exposition disgusting. Someone else's thick mucosa, grown on someone else's blood, suspended in a transparent fluid emulating saliva, ready for my consumption?

Anything is edible if you put enough mustard on.

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

[sihnfahl]

Anything is edible if you put enough mustard on.
Or ketchup.

But at all times, it's a grave sin to put it on a steak. Especially after you insult the beef by cooking the steak well-done.

[tomandtish]

Anything is edible if you put enough mustard on.

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

Tongue-in-cheek with mustard is actually quite tasty!

[sktarq]

I generally prefer HP to mustard for cheek.
Tongue with mustard can be pretty good...though i might have gone for salad cream...but I also may be a horrible person.

For human....i think a bechemel would be my starting point for experimentation.

[Ajustusdaniel]

I seem to recall a New York Times food critic who obtained a portion of an executed criminal's flesh describing the experience of eating human as not entirely like slightly tough veal, but more like slightly tough veal than it was like anything else. One presumes that the exact details will vary based on the cut of meat, muscle vs organ, the health and diet of the decedent, and the manner of preparation.

I see no ethical objection, in the broad sense, to the consumption of cultured human meat. There are plenty of good reasons why a culture might have a taboo against cannibalism, but I'm not sure that any of them apply here. In the narrow sense, I can see issues arising with consent and compensation- but we're already using lines of cultured cells originating from humans extensively in medicine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeLa#New_species_proposal), so those aren't really new issues.

As far as I'm aware, you get Kuru by eating someone (and especially the brain of someone) with Kuru- it isn't spontaneously generated by the act of breaking the cannibalism taboo. So especially as involves autocannibalism, it shouldn't be a concern.

[Xyril]

I seem to recall a New York Times food critic who obtained a portion of an executed criminal's flesh describing the experience of eating human as not entirely like slightly tough veal, but more like slightly tough veal than it was like anything else. One presumes that the exact details will vary based on the cut of meat, muscle vs organ, the health and diet of the decedent, and the manner of preparation.

I see no ethical objection, in the broad sense, to the consumption of cultured human meat. There are plenty of good reasons why a culture might have a taboo against cannibalism, but I'm not sure that any of them apply here. In the narrow sense, I can see issues arising with consent and compensation- but we're already using lines of cultured cells originating from humans extensively in medicine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeLa#New_species_proposal), so those aren't really new issues.

As far as I'm aware, you get Kuru by eating someone (and especially the brain of someone) with Kuru- it isn't spontaneously generated by the act of breaking the cannibalism taboo. So especially as involves autocannibalism, it shouldn't be a concern.

I don't have any, I guess you could call it a theoretical ethical objection to cannibalism in general, or cannibalism of a convicted capital felon. A practical moral concern I would have is the conflict of interest that may occur where some institution gets some benefit (especially, in the case of something like donor organs, or sweet delicious long pig, where it's one of few sources of a scarce commodity) from convicting that they don't when acquitting.

[Ajustusdaniel]

I don't have any, I guess you could call it a theoretical ethical objection to cannibalism in general, or cannibalism of a convicted capital felon. A practical moral concern I would have is the conflict of interest that may occur where some institution gets some benefit (especially, in the case of something like donor organs, or sweet delicious long pig, where it's one of few sources of a scarce commodity) from convicting that they don't when acquitting.

I should clarify that what I don't find any objection to is the artificially grown meat described in the OP. My problem with human meat sourced from capital punishment has more to do with capital punishment than the disposal of the remains afterwards.

[pendell]

I should clarify that what I don't find any objection to is the artificially grown meat described in the OP. My problem with human meat sourced from capital punishment has more to do with capital punishment than the disposal of the remains afterwards.

I think it is an extremely bad idea to give an economic incentive to eating human beings, which would happen if we sold off the bodies of executed prisoners for use at the dining table. I think culturing meat is much less problematic, because we're only talking about getting some cells and doing no other harm to the hosts.

There's a lot we can't go into on this forum, but there is a problem of prison labor being sold to private industry. Google the phrase "prison industrial complex". Selling the bodies of prisoners as well as their labor takes another step down that road which I'd rather we didn't take. Go down that world far enough , we see a dystopian world where anyone who goes into the prison system is ruthlessly used for the benefit of others, and there is a strong economic incentive to put people in prison to feed the appetites of the parent society, literally.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ajustusdaniel]

I think it is an extremely bad idea to give an economic incentive to eating human beings, which would happen if we sold off the bodies of executed prisoners for use at the dining table. I think culturing meat is much less problematic, because we're only talking about getting some cells and doing no other harm to the hosts.


Yes, I think we're essentially in agreement there.

[sihnfahl]

Google the phrase "prison industrial complex".
Also "prison medical experimentation"

[Rynjin]

Gator and snake, then? Both are good eating.

I've always found both to be pretty bland, myself. Gator tastes a lot like turkey to me, i.e. not much on its own. And it's a hell of a lot tougher.

[tyckspoon]

I've always found both to be pretty bland, myself. Gator tastes a lot like turkey to me, i.e. not much on its own. And it's a hell of a lot tougher.

The gator I've had has always been tail meat, which I find to be a lot like dark-meat chicken or maybe duck - pretty rich, fatty, makes good nuggets/fried chunks or can be simmered into a stew or gravy-type dish (chilis, etouffee, that sort of thing) to add some animal fat. I've never found it to be especially tough, but all the preparations I've had have either been very rapidly cooked (deep fried usually) or done low-and-slow, both of which are ways to avoid meats toughening up. Can agree it generally does not have a strong flavor of its own.

[Tyndmyr]

I feel like even if there's not a valid cruelty specific reason for avoiding this, I definitely find it pretty squicky.

On the other hand, you can have a ham made out of John Hamm.

[Ajustusdaniel]

I feel like even if there's not a valid cruelty specific reason for avoiding this, I definitely find it pretty squicky.

On the other hand, you can have a ham made out of John Hamm.

Celebrity Cannibalism does sound like a likely consequence of widespread acceptance of this practice, though I think it's more likely to start with marginal internet celebrities.

[Vinyadan]

Celebrity Cannibalism does sound like a likely consequence of widespread acceptance of this practice, though I think it's more likely to start with marginal internet celebrities.

Sounds like the next step, after bathwater.

[warty goblin]

Celebrity Cannibalism does sound like a likely consequence of widespread acceptance of this practice, though I think it's more likely to start with marginal internet celebrities.

You know, when the aliens show up, take one look at us, and hurl the entire planet into the sun, it'll be very, very hard to blame them.

[Ibrinar]

And this is the point of the exposition, promoting the use of human fluids to grow e.g. bovine meat instead of bovine fluids. Which I don't think makes sense, because human fluids come from people eating. This cannot be a closed cycle.

Not really

We are not promoting 'eating ourselves' as a realistic solution that will fix humans' protein needs. We rather ask a question: what would be the sacrifices we need to make to be able to keep consuming meat at the pace that we are?

[pendell]

Celebrity Cannibalism does sound like a likely consequence of widespread acceptance of this practice, though I think it's more likely to start with marginal internet celebrities.

I already anticipate the unboxing videos when certain youtubers decide to eat themselves on camera, to the delight of their audience.



You know, when the aliens show up, take one look at us, and hurl the entire planet into the sun, it'll be very, very hard to blame them.


That's inefficient. A better alternative would be dinosaur killer asteroids. There are already plenty in our asteroid belt just waiting for the gentlest of nudges to go hurtling to a fiery doom on the unsuspecting planet below.

Eating people, fiery doom... I wonder if I'm turning into a misanthrope in my middle age?

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

[warty goblin]

That's inefficient. A better alternative would be dinosaur killer asteroids. There are already plenty in our asteroid belt just waiting for the gentlest of nudges to go hurtling to a fiery doom on the unsuspecting planet below.

Eating people, fiery doom... I wonder if I'm turning into a misanthrope in my middle age?

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

Look, if you're obliterating our diseased genome, you've gotta do it properly. Incinerate those pesky microbes!

[Ajustusdaniel]

I already anticipate the unboxing videos when certain youtubers decide to eat themselves on camera, to the delight of

Eating people, fiery doom... I wonder if I'm turning into a misanthrope in my middle age?

Brian P.

Of course not- eating people doesn't make you a misanthrope- it makes you a humanitarian!

[pendell]

Update: Salmon from cultured cells too (https://singularityhub.com/2020/09/16/this-startup-is-growing-sushi-grade-salmon-from-cells-in-a-lab/?fbclid=IwAR3AQREgdvIHnj1aQbH31lcdisl0eej-bjNwvF3OH20nsY3Q17EZo2h4Gd0). I find that much more edible.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Apparently we actually taste like pork

Given the setup, I figure this particular meat probably actually does taste like chicken.

There are two main things that set something like beef or pork apart from chicken. Part one is more structure from the many bloodvessels a large warm blooded animal needs. Part two is a higher fat content. Something like deer has the structure but not the fat, and something like foie gras (or cheap hamburger) has the fat but not the structure. An actual human would probably taste quite a bit like beef, pork or goat or something in that direction, but this is not a human. This is a small growth of cells without moat of the structure needed to support the blood flow around the whole animal. And depending on the exact cells harvested there probably aren't (m)any fat cells either. I think chicken is pretty close.

[sktarq]

When the filesearch for flavor:(animal) is empty the default is match to the file for flavor:chicken...the matrix is still limited by GIGO and may just not have inputs for flavor:human.

And I always found snake rather flavorful..love the stuff but don't see it on the menu often.

[Noldo]

This reminds me of the most highly sought after application of process to cultivate meat in laboratory:

Kosher bacon (https://www.google.fi/amp/s/www.livekindly.co/orthodox-jewish-union-declare-clean-bacon-kosher/amp/).

[Trafalgar]

Seen in Dezeen (https://www.dezeen.com/2020/11/13/ouroboros-steak-meal-kit-andrew-pelling-grace-knight-orkan-telhan/)

I think I'd prefer something a bit less , shall we say, close to home. Even if it does probably taste like chicken.



I believe they called it "Long Pork" back in the day. Since we are not poultry, I imagine it would be closer to pig, beef, or lamb.

[Tyndmyr]

Celebrity Cannibalism does sound like a likely consequence of widespread acceptance of this practice, though I think it's more likely to start with marginal internet celebrities.

I mean, if all you need is a cheek swap to start culturing and growing your own, uh, a particularly delightful/horrifying cyberpunk celebrity DNA trade is just around the corner.

[Trafalgar]

I feel like even if there's not a valid cruelty specific reason for avoiding this, I definitely find it pretty squicky.

On the other hand, you can have a ham made out of John Hamm.

I want some Kevin Bacon Bacon!

[Ajustusdaniel]

I mean, if all you need is a cheek swap to start culturing and growing your own, uh, a particularly delightful/horrifying cyberpunk celebrity DNA trade is just around the corner.

Well, yeah, but without a clear endorsement by the celebrity "I'm John Hamm and I'm..." *pause to take a bite of cultured meat "Delicious" how are you going to authenticate it? It's probably much easier to get a cheek swab from some unfamous guy and slap a celebrity's name on it then it is to follow the celebrity around until they take their eyes off their DNA.

[Trafalgar]

I have a serious question. Would eating this increase the chance of a new virus developing? Kind of like how Mad Cow Disease developed when cows were fed the remains of cattle?

[Keltest]

I have a serious question. Would eating this increase the chance of a new virus developing? Kind of like how Mad Cow Disease developed when cows were fed the remains of cattle?

I am going to say, without any scientific basis other than the fact that we are having this conversation in 2020, that i dont see how it could possibly not happen.

[Yora]

Mad Cow is a prion disease, similar to kuru. They are caused by abnormal proteins that can be absorbed into the body by eating a carrier and then get replicated by the same processes that replicate regular proteins that the body naturally produces.

If you had a sample contaminated with prions and make meat from it, the prions would end up in all the people who eat that meat. But since the people who catch them don't get eaten themselves, it stops there. You really only have a one-way chain of three possible "hosts". The original sample, the artificial meat, and the consumer who eats it.
Prions can appear spontaneously during protein replication, but it's an extremely rare thing to happen. Even if it should happen in a growing piece of meat, it will only spread to the person eating that piece of meat.

This is very different than the practice that lead to Mad Cow Disease. In that case, the remains of butchered cows were shredded and powdered into a food supplement that was fed to other cows. You get one random cow out of billions that spontaneously develops prions. Then that cow gets butchered and its leftovers fed to a hundred other cows that now have them as well. Then those get butchered and their remains fed to ten thousand other cows which now have the prions as well. This could possibly have gone one for dozens of generations before it was noticed.
Same thing with Kuru. Most cannibalism is funerary cannibalism, where the remains of the dead are consumed by their relatives. Whose remains then get consumed by their relatives, and so on.

[Bohandas]

something something fava beans

[sktarq]

something something fava beans

Well if we are going that direction....such lab grown meat would probably be more amenable to such behavior....if one is going to have for example lab grown liver(which should be quite easy as it likes to regrow anyway) and some classic meat a lot of the harder aspect is going to be texture based (so a lot of it will come off like veal due to a lack of environmental stimulus). This would thus imply that to avoid the texture issues using the meat as mince and slathering it with a flavor rich mix such as a sauce would be ideal....now tossing in some ground organ meat into something like a ragu or ragout would be pretty classic to bump up the richness and depth of flavor....and really such a ragu would be a very classic pairing for a nice Chianti and the flavor and texture contrast of broad beans (aka fava beans) would likely be very nice.
also in the book Hannibal it expressly notes a suspicious meal where he hosts a group associated with a symphony in which a mysterious ragout is featured as being notable dark and rich (which is often associated with the use of organ meat) which may or may not have features a "sticky flute" so we can rather safely assume he is at least quite partial to such preparations.

So yeah....lab grown meat would actually pair better with that statement than most others.

no I have not thought a lot on this, why do you ask?

[ereinion]

Not to mention, I'm told that carnivores who have been living on meat taste absolutely horrible.
Could it be that you remember this from the Narnia books? I seem to recall something like this mentioned there, but I have never heard of it in any other context...

[pendell]

Could it be that you remember this from the Narnia books? I seem to recall something like this mentioned there, but I have never heard of it in any other context...

Yes, that's where I remember it from. Prince Caspian -



They reached the fir wood which had caused them so much trouble while it was still daylight, and bivouacked in a hollow just above it. It was tedious gathering the firewood; but it was grand when the fire blazed up and they began producing the damp and smeary parcels of bear-meat which would have been so very unattractive to anyone who had spent the day indoors. The Dwarf had splendid ideas about cookery. Each apple (they still had a few of these) was wrapped up in bear's meat - as if it was to be apple dumpling with meat instead of pastry, only much thicker - and spiked on a sharp stick and then roasted. And the juice of the apple worked all through the meat, like apple sauce with roast pork. Bear that has lived too much on other animals is not very nice, but bear that has had plenty of honey and fruit is excellent, and this turned out to be that sort of bear. It was a truly glorious meal. And, of course, no washing up - only lying back and watching the smoke from Trumpkin's pipe and stretching one's tired legs and chatting. Everyone felt quite hopeful now about finding King Caspian tomorrow and defeating Miraz in a few days. It may not have been sensible of them to feel like this, but they did.


While this is a fictional story, I think we can see C.S. Lewis the WWI soldier peeping through the person of Trumpkin, and some of his real-life experience there.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Fyraltari]

Yes, that's where I remember it from. Prince Caspian -



While this is a fictional story, I think we can see C.S. Lewis the WWI soldier peeping through the person of Trumpkin, and some of his real-life experience there.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

WWI soldiers didn't eat much bear meat, though.

[pendell]

True, but I don't think it's unreasonable to believe he had some experience with the outdoors, although a google search to find out why he thought he knew what bear meat tasted like , or if he'd simply made it up, turns up no hits.

I did see this snarky article (https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/cs-lewis-greatest-fiction-convincing-american-kids-that-they-would-like-turkish-delight) on Turkish Delight, though, which implies not everyone agreed with C.S. Lewis' assessment of things to eat.

I suppose if I had to choose between human steak and Turkish Delight, I'd take the Turkish Delight ... but not by much.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Fyraltari]

True, but I don't think it's unreasonable to believe he had some experience with the outdoors, although a google search to find out why he thought he knew what bear meat tasted like , or if he'd simply made it up, turns up no hits.
Knowing what bear meat tastes like, I wouldn't question but how would he know the bear's diet?


I did see this snarky article (https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/cs-lewis-greatest-fiction-convincing-american-kids-that-they-would-like-turkish-delight) on Turkish Delight, though, which implies not everyone agreed with C.S. Lewis' assessment of things to eat.

I suppose if I had to choose between human steak and Turkish Delight, I'd take the Turkish Delight ... but not by much.

Respectfully,

Brian P.
You've got something against loukoums?

[pendell]

Knowing what bear meat tastes like, I wouldn't question but how would he know the bear's diet?

Well, Diet changes meat flavor (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2286578/), so presumably, if he didn't just make it up, he either had experience of eating both carnivorous and herbivorous animals, or knew people who had.

Not just meat either (https://www.vice.com/en/article/gqkx99/how-diet-affects-the-way-your-sexual-fluids-taste). Yes. If you have a partner you can make their life better with a healthy diet.



You've got something against loukoums?

Found a box on sale in the 1990s. Maybe I'm spoiled as an American, but there are a number of better options available in the modern world, such as See's candys. Can well imagine why it would be loved in WWII-era Britain when rationing made sugar scarce. Strange as it may sound, the ones I had were too sweet for my taste, and considering you're talking about an American raised on stuff like Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs (not a real cereal, but you get the idea), that's a very odd thing to say.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Fyraltari]

Well, Diet changes meat flavor (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2286578/), so presumably, if he didn't just make it up, he either had experience of eating both carnivorous and herbivorous animals, or knew people who had.
Right, but in order to know which bears taste better based on their diet you'd have to eat a lot of bear and know what each used to eat and that's not feasable unless there are bear farms somewhere and nobody told me.


Found a box on sale in the 1990s. Maybe I'm spoiled as an American, but there are a number of better options available in the modern world, such as See's candys. Can well imagine why it would be loved in WWII-era Britain when rationing made sugar scarce. Strange as it may sound, the ones I had were too sweet for my taste, and considering you're talking about an American raised on stuff like Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs (not a real cereal, but you get the idea), that's a very odd thing to say.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I mean, treats are the same as any food, sometimes you just dislike them and there's not really a reason why. But if you only tried it once 20-30 years ago, maybe give it another shot if you have the occasion.

Edit: as for the "odd for an american to say" bit, my understanding is that it isn't that your candies are more sugary than the rest of the world but that you put sugar in non-sugary foods.

[DavidSh]

Right, but in order to know which bears taste better based on their diet you'd have to eat a lot of bear and know what each used to eat and that's not feasable unless there are bear farms somewhere and nobody told me.

I looked for info on this, and found a forum for hunters that had a thread on this topic. Apparently, it's easy to determine the last meal of the animal you are butchering. Otherwise, you can know whether the salmon are running, whether berries are in season, or whether there is a garbage dump in the area. But they mostly agree that sometimes the bears taste good, and sometimes not, and the reason isn't always obvious.

I've never eaten bear, myself, though.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I looked for info on this, and found a forum for hunters that had a thread on this topic. Apparently, it's easy to determine the last meal of the animal you are butchering.

Although my guess is they mostly look at the stomach contents for that, rather than tasting the meat.

[Ajustusdaniel]

Although my guess is they mostly look at the stomach contents for that, rather than tasting the meat.

Or you could check the bear's pockets for a restaurant receipt!

[warty goblin]

Or you could check the bear's pockets for a restaurant receipt!

Man, I just wouldn't feel safe eating a bear that failed to socially distance like that.

[The Glyphstone]

Celebrity Cannibalism does sound like a likely consequence of widespread acceptance of this practice, though I think it's more likely to start with marginal internet celebrities.

Maybe instead of celebrity cannibalism, we get cannibalism celebrities? People who are famous because their particular strain of meat is deemed tastier for some quirky genetic reason...

[piperhahn]

Incidentally, there are very rarely anything like the same rules applied to vegetables or fruits or cereal grains. Meat requires very careful handling and preparation. Even in the modern world, crab or lobster or shrimp have the potential to kill you if they are prepared clumsily.

[HandofShadows]

Don't forget a few kinds of fish can be deadly if not prepared correctly as well.