A couple of LA questions

[omegaghost]

I'm evaluating some races to make available for players in my next campaign and I'm not sure if some of LAs are really justified.

First is Volodni (UEp15). It's a plant creature with some pretty standard bonuses imo. Is it really justified to have +2 LA just for being a plant?

Second is Tabaxi (Necromancer games Tome of Horrors p338). It's a monstrous humanoid with 2 RHD and +2 LA, but is more or less the same stat and ability wise as a leopard (if you take leopard's int penalty into equation) that has 3 RHD and +0 LA. I really feel like Tabaxi should have only +1 LA or maybe even +0, but I'm really no expert on these. What do you think?

[Batcathat]

Have you checked the LA-assignment threads (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?518086-The-LA-assignment-archive&p=21798987)? I'm not sure whether they've covered those races specifically but they've covered a lot so it seems pretty likely.

[omegaghost]

Yeah, I checked the index and searched forums, not been assigned yet. I also didn't manage to find any creature to compare Volodni to.

[Doctor Despair]

Plant immunities are pretty great. +2 is, iirc, the cheapest entry without racial hit die. Iirc it was adu'ja and woodling as the other templates, and a number of races with relatively low racial hitdie (needlefolk, myconid junior, and others to that effect)

[Blue Jay]

Second is Tabaxi (Necromancer games Tome of Horrors p338). It's a monstrous humanoid with 2 RHD and +2 LA, but is more or less the same stat and ability wise as a leopard (if you take leopard's int penalty into equation) that has 3 RHD and +0 LA. I really feel like Tabaxi should have only +1 LA or maybe even +0, but I'm really no expert on these. What do you think?

This is a technicality that some poindexter always has to mention in a thread about LA's, but it's kind of important. The leopard doesn't have LA +0: it has "LA: -." That means it was never assigned a level adjustment, because it was deemed unplayable (low Intelligence, obviously). If it had been given an LA, I don't think WotC would have given it LA +0: personally, I think they probably would have gone for LA +2.

A couple other 2HD creatures that got LA +2 from WotC include the grimlock, the krenshar, the lumi (MM3) and the sahuagin. It seems to me that the ToH tabaxi would be above-average (power-wise) in that group, so LA +2 seems entirely consistent with WotC practices.

The RLA (Reassigned LA) project dropped the grimlock, krenshar and sahuagin to LA +0, and the lumi to LA +1, and I'd personally speculate that a tabaxi would be fine at LA +1, maybe even LA +0.

I've got a spreadsheet with all the first-party monsters, and I dropped the volodni to LA +0 (though there is a good argument for LA +1). I've never seen it in play before though, and I don't think I've even played or DMed for a plant-type PC either, so my vote doesn't come from a place of great experience.

[omegaghost]

This is a technicality that some poindexter always has to mention in a thread about LA's, but it's kind of important. The leopard doesn't have LA +0: it has "LA: -."

I checked LA reassignment index for that, it's been assigned +0 on this forum so I just assumed that wotc's "-" is "+0"

[lylsyly]

Leopard (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/leopard.htm) PC would get STR +6 / DEX +8 / CON +4 / WIS +2 / CHA - 4 / INT - 8 or over all a Plus 8 on ability modifiers

with improved grab, pounce and rake? Easily +2 if you want it to be a pc race. Even if you drop the RHD and just give hit hit dice from class levels. A case could probably be made for +3. The reason it's assigned LA:- is with an INT of 2 it's not an intelligent being so not considered to be a playable race.

Want it to be a playable race at your table? Drop the RHD and let them get HD from class levels but it should probably still be at least LA+2

[omegaghost]

Leopard (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/leopard.htm) PC would get STR +6 / DEX +8 / CON +4 / WIS +2 / CHA - 4 / INT - 8 or over all a Plus 8 on ability modifiers

with improved grab, pounce and rake? Easily +2 if you want it to be a pc race. Even if you drop the RHD and just give hit hit dice from class levels. A case could probably be made for +3. The reason it's assigned LA:- is with an INT of 2 it's not an intelligent being so not considered to be a playable race.

Want it to be a playable race at your table? Drop the RHD and let them get HD from class levels but it should probably still be at least LA+2

So here's the deal. Tabaxi get a +10 over all because they don't get the two penalties like leopard (I don't know if it's legal to post actual stats here) and everything else is the same as leopard. This all for 2RHD and +2LA. It's just that I don't think the int penalty is much of a problem, and cha penalty is not a penalty at all in most cases. So leopard seems to have way better potential.

As for dropping RHD, is there some kind of rule for that? What's the general reason monsters get RHD? Is it gonna be balanced if I replace all RHD with class levels (that's easily gonna solve my problem)?

[tyckspoon]

I checked LA reassignment index for that, it's been assigned +0 on this forum so I just assumed that wotc's "-" is "+0"

No, '-' from WotC means 'this creature is not suitable to be a PC.' The most common reason is that it's not intelligent, explicitly acts only on instinct or when directly commanded, or has similar limitations that don't allow it to act as an adventurer. The LA assignment project handwaves that as part of its basic approach and assumes that you have come to some understanding with your DM - you got Awakened in your backstory, your Mindless Ooze hung around in a magical dump and gained intelligence from Magical Gamma Radiation, you found some template that improves your Int score, whatever. They assume everything is baseline playable and assign an LA from there. You still have to figure out what the exception is that allows your normally not-playable thing to be a PC.

[omegaghost]

No, '-' from WotC means 'this creature is not suitable to be a PC.' The most common reason is that it's not intelligent, explicitly acts only on instinct or when directly commanded, or has similar limitations that don't allow it to act as an adventurer. The LA assignment project handwaves that as part of its basic approach and assumes that you have come to some understanding with your DM - you got Awakened in your backstory, your Mindless Ooze hung around in a magical dump and gained intelligence from Magical Gamma Radiation, you found some template that improves your Int score, whatever. They assume everything is baseline playable and assign an LA from there. You still have to figure out what the exception is that allows your normally not-playable thing to be a PC.

I get that now. Gaining intelligence to make monster playable only makes that monster better stat-wise though, and only adds to my assessment in the comment above.