Maybe this time the 8 int wizard is really the better option

[Trandir]

Well I got the goblin brain that wants to roll every time I get the chance. Sometimes I get lucky sometimes I don't. This is one of them, my array is: 13, 11, 11, 10, 10, 8

The DM however since this PC will being his journey at lv 5 has given for equipment: starting gear (130 gp worth of stuff), 2 common magic items, 1 uncommon magic items.

Now I wanted to play a wizard since they are pretty SAD and diviner allows to make the best out of poor intelligenge and halfling with lucky feat dice master meme. But then I remembered. I could take a headband of intellect to boost the 8 into 19. So is it a good idea to do so in this situation? Also any other advice helpful for this situation?

[Bobthewizard]

The headband is a no brainer.

Check with your DM to see if the headband increases your spell preparations, though. So with an 8 INT you might still only have 4 prepared spells. If your DM lets you increase your spell preparations with the headband, then it's even better.

[Zhorn]

The headband is a no brainer.

heh, I see what you did there :smallbiggrin:

[Trandir]

The headband is a no brainer.

Check with your DM to see if the headband increases your spell preparations, though. So with an 8 INT you might still only have 4 prepared spells. If your DM lets you increase your spell preparations with the headband, then it's even better.

I asked and it indeed does increase the number of prepared spells. Which is raised from 4 to 9. Pretty good.

Now the DM hates Tasha's rules for adjusting the ability scores. Still I won't put them in Int so I have a lot of races to choose from. Mountain dwarf seems resonable, I could get 16 Con by taking Resilient and be able to carry my own backpack with 12 Str, or maybe I am not considering some other good idea. I am also a bit lost in the subclass choice any advice in that regard?

[Gale]

Those scores are particularly bad, obviously worse than standard array and point buy. In fact, if you had chosen point buy you would have only used 15 out of your 27 points.

In 3.5 the rules explicitly allowed you to reroll your stats if they were particularly low. If your highest score was 13 or lower you could reroll. I'm quite surprised 5th edition doesn't have a similar rule.

Honestly, unless you really want to rise to the challenge of playing a subpar character I would try and see if your DM will let you reroll your stats. The rules should never be used as an excuse to force players into having a bad time or prevent them from realizing simple character concepts. If you're afraid they'll say no to letting you reroll consider asking them to let you use standard array so that your character is at least functional. Bad stats might make for a good challenge and an interesting story, but it can also collectively ruin everyone's fun if the character ends up being a handicap. A headband of intellect can definitely help prevent this, but now you're in a situation where you not only have poor stats but you're missing out an attunement slot for what will likely be the entire game.

I don't think I would try and make this work without first asking for a mulligan on my stats. But if you can't get a do-over then certainly grabbing a Headband of Intellect and playing a Wizard isn't a terrible idea.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, if you go the Wizard route, that seems like the best choice. Though this is still pretty weak all things considered; you can get +1 Dex and +2 Con. +2 Con is fine but +1 Dex is pretty rough. You'll probably be fine if you sit a bit back or whatever, but slow acting will of course hurt your ability to influence the combat at the onset. I would definitely consider being a Moon Druid or a minionmancer like Shepherd Druid instead: 14 Wis is plenty to prepare what you need and your animal shapes replace your stats so you don't care that much about your physicals.

[Trandir]

Those scores are particularly bad, obviously worse than standard array and point buy. In fact, if you had chosen point buy you would have only used 15 out of your 27 points.

In 3.5 the rules explicitly allowed you to reroll your stats if they were particularly low. If your highest score was 13 or lower you could reroll. I'm quite surprised 5th edition doesn't have a similar rule.

Honestly, unless you really want to rise to the challenge of playing a subpar character I would try and see if your DM will let you reroll your stats. The rules should never be used as an excuse to force players into having a bad time or prevent them from realizing simple character concepts. If you're afraid they'll say no to letting you reroll consider asking them to let you use standard array so that your character is at least functional. Bad stats might make for a good challenge and an interesting story, but it can also collectively ruin everyone's fun if the character ends up being a handicap. A headband of intellect can definitely help prevent this, but now you're in a situation where you not only have poor stats but you're missing out an attunement slot for what will likely be the entire game.

I don't think I would try and make this work without first asking for a mulligan on my stats. But if you can't get a do-over then certainly grabbing a Headband of Intellect and playing a Wizard isn't a terrible idea.

It was a choice. I could either roll and take the gamble, meaning I get to keep whatever I get, or get the surely decent array with point buy. I choose to roll and got slightly screwed. Also 3.5 was a different system there Ability scores were both less powerful and expected to be rather high.


Yeah, if you go the Wizard route, that seems like the best choice. Though this is still pretty weak all things considered; you can get +1 Dex and +2 Con. +2 Con is fine but +1 Dex is pretty rough. You'll probably be fine if you sit a bit back or whatever, but slow acting will of course hurt your ability to influence the combat at the onset. I would definitely consider being a Moon Druid or a minionmancer like Shepherd Druid instead: 14 Wis is plenty to prepare what you need and your animal shapes replace your stats so you don't care that much about your physicals.

I am set on wizard tho

[Eldariel]

It was a choice. I could either roll and take the gamble, meaning I get to keep whatever I get, or get the surely decent array with point buy. I choose to roll and got slightly screwed. Also 3.5 was a different system there Ability scores were both less powerful and expected to be rather high.

In 3.5 this set of scores would be eligible for a reroll. Alas. But yeah, your plan makes it workable at least. Frees you up to spend all your ASIs on feats too, which is pretty sweet.

[CTurbo]

Mountain Dwarf Wizard with Headband of Intellect and the plan to take Res(Con) would be just fine. You don't even HAVE to be a Diviner. This actually frees up opportunities to take some feats that Wizards like, but don't really NEED like Lucky, Alert, Ritual Caster, Magic Initiate, Tough, or even Mobile or you could just Max Con or even slap in a +2 Dex for better AC/initiative. A Mountain Dwarf could even take the Heavily Armored feat, but sadly that still doesn't get you proficiency with a shield.

Another option would be Tortle Wizard. You trade some Con for better AC. It's pretty easy to find an Amulet of Health too. I played with a guy that had similarly poor rolls and it didn't take him long to have both an Amulet of Health and Gauntlets of Ogre power.

Hobgoblin Wizard is an interesting option too. You could take the Moderately Armored feat at level 4 and get medium armor AND shield proficiency and then take Res(Con) at level 8 for the 16 Con.


Stats with Mountain Dwarf - 13 Str, 11 Dex, 15 Con, 8(19) Int, 10 Wis, 10 Cha. AC of 14 with Breastplate. Ironically, Moderately Armored feat still might be worth it as it would round Dex up to 12 and give you shield proficiency so a +3 AC gain would be worth it IMO. Maybe the DM will allow Heavily Armored to give shield proficiency? I would.

Stats with Tortle - 12 Str, 11 Dex, 13 Con, 8(19) Int, 12 Wis, 10 Cha. AC of 17 unarmored. Take Res(Con) at level 4 and then maybe Tough at 8?

Stats with Hobgoblin - 11 Str, 11 Dex, 15 Con, 9(19) Int, 10 Wis, 10 Cha. AC of 11 with leather armor. Take Moderately Armored at level 4 and Res(Con) at level 8. AC jumps to 17 with Moderately Armored which is the same as the Mountain Dwarf.

[RogueJK]

This actually frees up opportunities to take some feats that Wizards like, but don't really NEED like ... Ritual Caster

What non-Wizard Rituals did you have in mind that would be worth spending a feat on? Wizards already get the vast majority of the really useful rituals... And just got Augury and Divination added in Tasha's.

Druid:
-Speak with Animals
-Animal Messenger
-Locate Plants or Animals
-Detect Poison and Disease
-Purify Food and Drink
-Beast Sense
-Commune with Nature
-Meld into Stone
-Water Walk

Cleric:
-Ceremony
-Detect Poison and Disease
-Purify Food and Drink
-Commune
-Forbiddance
-Meld into Stone
-Water Walk

[Sigreid]

Personally, I'd put the 8 in Cha or Wisdom, the 13 in intelligence and raise it normally and still get the headband. Not the most optimized choices, but pretty thematic to me.

[Willie the Duck]

Stats with Hobgoblin - 11 Str, 11 Dex, 15 Con, 9(19) Int, 10 Wis, 10 Cha. AC of 11 with leather armor. Take Moderately Armored at level 4 and Res(Con) at level 8. AC jumps to 17 with Moderately Armored which is the same as the Mountain Dwarf.

I might actually move the base 13 to Dex and base 11 to con. By 8th you have 14 Dex/19 AC, 14 Con and save proficiency, and a 19 Int. At that point, other than never getting 20 Int and having an attunement slot used up, you now have a really solid stand-your-ground wizard.

[Trandir]

I might actually move the base 13 to Dex and base 11 to con. By 8th you have 14 Dex/19 AC, 14 Con and save proficiency, and a 19 Int. At that point, other than never getting 20 Int and having an attunement slot used up, you now have a really solid stand-your-ground wizard.

The DM said that the headband doesn't stack with anything so now it doesn't take an attunement slot. So that's one less thing to worry about

[Wildarm]

Well I got the goblin brain that wants to roll every time I get the chance. Sometimes I get lucky sometimes I don't. This is one of them, my array is: 13, 11, 11, 10, 10, 8

The DM however since this PC will being his journey at lv 5 has given for equipment: starting gear (130 gp worth of stuff), 2 common magic items, 1 uncommon magic items.

Now I wanted to play a wizard since they are pretty SAD and diviner allows to make the best out of poor intelligenge and halfling with lucky feat dice master meme. But then I remembered. I could take a headband of intellect to boost the 8 into 19. So is it a good idea to do so in this situation? Also any other advice helpful for this situation?

Honestly I'd build something whacky and suicidal so you can quickly die and reroll better. Unless you like missing 50% more of the time than all your friends. Melee goblin wild magic melee sorcerer. Hide then rush up to foes, cast an AOE and surge. Hope for the fireball centered on yourself and your foes. Blaze of glory while helping your friends is the way to go.

[Trandir]

Honestly I'd build something whacky and suicidal so you can quickly die and reroll better. Unless you like missing 50% more of the time than all your friends. Melee goblin wild magic melee sorcerer. Hide then rush up to foes, cast an AOE and surge. Hope for the fireball centered on yourself and your foes. Blaze of glory while helping your friends is the way to go.

How am I supposed to miss 50% more than my friends if I have 19 intelligence?

[Eldariel]

Hmm, so now thinking about the possible races and subclasses:
- You have all your feats free. This kinda devalues Variant Human though even then, being able to get the high value ones 4 levels early is just massive.
- You probably will want to be a bit tankier or superavoidant. The former necessitates some concessions to your tankiness (which isn't that hard though since you can afford some extra ASIs) while the latter runs the obvious issue of ranged attacks (low AC makes your best physical defense, Shield, also less worthwhile) and the issue of being at range without the luxury of acting fast.
- I think both are workable but the tanky one is "less weak" compared to a normal PB character. That is, you can achieve the same 19 AC with relatively little investment and you can afford decent Con. +2/+1 to Dex and Con is obviously optimal, though +1/+1 like Vuman is also not impossible (means an extra half-feat - if your DM agrees to decouple racial prerequisites, Vuman Bladesinger going Res: Con for 14 Con on 2, Moderately Armored on 4 and Elven Accuracy on 8 would be reasonably strong using Shadow Blade and Darkvision the spell). For non-Bladesinger option there's always going Lightly Armored > Moderately Armored on a Vuman Anything (though at that point it's pretty much just a +2/+1 race with light armor proficiency so it might not compare favourably to other options.
- Bladesinger in general seems pretty good since it gets you Light Armor on 2 setting you up for Moderately Armored on 4 (in spite of the slight antisynergy with Bladesong; but the current Bladesinger is plenty strong with just armor and Cantrip Extra Attack).
- Abjurer would somewhat alleviate the major HP problem resulting from poor to extremely poor Con.
- Diviner and Chronurgist are just good and that doesn't change with this (though without Headband Chronurgist does of course lose much of its allure).
- Necromancer is best suited for "sit back and let my minions take care of this"-playstyle with the level 6 Animate Dead buffs and later on Command Undead.


Far as race goes, besides the obvious "Grant armor" and "Are Vuman" and "can Fly", Tortle is indeed an interesting option as stated and of course, while the Dex isn't all that, Goblin can never be understated on races with relatively lax bonus action use. It's a different kind of defense and MaxWilson's favourite Skulker Goblin could indeed work quite well in spite of not having such an immense Dex as a way to often avoid notice entirely.

[Wildarm]

How am I supposed to miss 50% more than my friends if I have 19 intelligence?

Fair enough. Comes at the cost of a magic item pick and never reaching your max primary ability score. I'd still pick an whacky and suicidal character and just have fun with it. If you die, it's no big deal.

[Gale]

Back again. Here is what I would do, personally.

Race: Variant Human
Feat: Resilient (CON)
Stats: STR 8, DEX 12 (11 + 1), CON 14 (13 + 1 from Resilient), INT 19 (10 + Headband of Intellect), WIS 12 (11+1), CHA 10
Subclass: Anything but Bladesinger

This gets us as close as possible to normal stats. CON is absolutely important because everyone needs HP and having proficiency on CON saves is crucial in maintaining concentration on spells. DEX and WIS get favored because DEX is always good and WIS is the most common saving throw you'll be succumbed to from spells.

STR generally shouldn't matter. Even with 8 STR you can still carry 120 lb without issue. If you need more you can always buy a mule for 8 gp. STR saves are pretty uncommon and STR checks usually don't impose a penalty on failure. Unless of course, it's a contested check, but contested STR checks are the bane of all Wizards. It comes with the territory, and that's why they have teleport spells and the like to get out annoying grapples.

As for ASI I would consider taking feats or raising DEX/CON. But I wouldn't bother trying to increase your INT, especially if the Headband of Intellect doesn't consume one of your attunement slots. It wouldn't pay off until level 12 at the earliest, which in my games is usually about when the campaign ends. But of course your mileage may vary.

I think at Level 4 I would take Tough to try and maximize my HP. If not that than I would raise DEX to try and avoiding getting hit altogether. I probably wouldn't raise CON before taking Tough.

Not sure about what subclass to take though. Because you have fairly standard stats now they should all be about equally viable. Divination is obviously still really good.

Bladesinger is probably off the table, as I can't think of a way to get a decent enough DEX to hit things with while maintaining a high enough CON to not immediately die the instant you take damage. Although, you could still do it if all you care about is the AC buff from Bladesong.

Sorry if this isn't more thorough. Wizards isn't my specialty. Maybe look at Treantmonk's guide if you want more specific Wizard help. (https://www.enworld.org/threads/treantmonks-guide-to-wizards-5e.450158/) But with the Headband of Intellect I don't think your stats are actually bad enough that you need a specific build to make them work.

[CTurbo]

What non-Wizard Rituals did you have in mind that would be worth spending a feat on? Wizards already get the vast majority of the really useful rituals... And just got Augury and Divination added in Tasha's.

Druid:
-Speak with Animals
-Animal Messenger
-Locate Plants or Animals
-Detect Poison and Disease
-Purify Food and Drink
-Beast Sense
-Commune with Nature
-Meld into Stone
-Water Walk

Cleric:
-Ceremony
-Detect Poison and Disease
-Purify Food and Drink
-Commune
-Forbiddance
-Meld into Stone
-Water Walk


Normally I would say that Ritual Caster is rarely worth a feat slot for a Wizard, but in a situation like this, many of those rituals would be useful to know.

Magic Initiate is far superior though for Wizards.

[Trandir]

Ok everyone. Slight change of plan. I'm going the fighterman route. So if I die I die earlier

Race: hill dwarf
Magic items: gauntlets of ogre power, cast-off plate armor
Array: 19 (8), 11, 13+2, 10, 11+1, 10
Class: Figher
Fighting Style: either defense or dueling
Subclass: to decide
4th level ASI: to decide

Any advice for the last coices?

[CTurbo]

Ok everyone. Slight change of plan. I'm going the fighterman route. So if I die I die earlier

Race: hill dwarf
Magic items: gauntlets of ogre power, cast-off plate armor
Array: 19 (8), 11, 13+2, 10, 11+1, 10
Class: Figher
Fighting Style: either defense or dueling
Subclass: to decide
4th level ASI: to decide

Any advice for the last coices?

How seriously do you want to take this character? If not very seriously, just take GWF/GWM and be a Champion with a greataxe. It would be boring but effective at killing things.

[Trandir]

How seriously do you want to take this character? If not very seriously, just take GWF/GWM and be a Champion with a greataxe. It would be boring but effective at killing things.

Pretty seriously. One of the player whipped out a homebrew class called the "anime protagonist", I'd take something equally weird if I wasn't serious.

[RogueJK]

Magic Initiate is far superior though for Wizards.

Unless you're after Cantrips or a specific non-Divination/Enchantment/Necromancy/Illusion 1st level spell, the new Fey Touched and Shadow Touched feats from Tasha's are typically going to be better options for any caster, including a Wizard.

Unlike the 1st level spell from Magic Initiate, the 1st and 2nd level spells gained through Fey/Shadow Touched can also be cast using spell slots, alongside their 1x/day free use apiece.

Plus you get +1 INT (or WIS or CHA) on top of it.

[RogueJK]

Ok everyone. Slight change of plan. I'm going the fighterman route. So if I die I die earlier

Race: hill dwarf
Magic items: gauntlets of ogre power, cast-off plate armor
Array: 19 (8), 11, 13+2, 10, 11+1, 10
Class: Figher
Fighting Style: either defense or dueling
Subclass: to decide
4th level ASI: to decide

Any advice for the last coices?

Battlemaster or Echo Knight would be my recommendation for subclass.

If you want a higher AC, take Defense fighting style, use a Shield and a Warhammer, and take the new Crusher feat from Tasha's at Fighter 4 for +1 CON and some additional capabilities with your warhammer. You'll have 21 AC from Level 4, with the ability to knock enemies around the battlefield with your warhammer. Then at Fighter 6 take the new Fighting Initiate feat to pick up Dueling fighting style too for extra warhammer damage. Then take +2 CON at Level 8, Sentinel at Level 10, and another +2 CON at Level 12.

Or if you want a lot more damage at the expense of a lower AC, take the Great Weapon fighting style, use a Greatsword or Greataxe, and take +1 CON/+1 WIS at Level 4. Then take the Great Weapon Master feat at Level 6, Resilient WIS at Level 8, and Sentinel or +2 CON at Level 10 and 12.

[N810]

I say go all in and take Ork as your race for the -2 intelligence penalty,
and offset it with the band of intelligence.

[RogueJK]

I say go all in and take Ork as your race for the -2 intelligence penalty,
and offset it with the band of intelligence.

WotC has errata'd out any racial stat penalties for Orcs and Kobolds. No more -2 to INT/STR.

(They also removed the Orc's Menacing trait, and replaced it with Primal Intuition.)

https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/VGtM-Errata.pdf

[N810]

well that's no fun :(

[Eldariel]

Hill Dwarf is a great call: even if for whatever reason you get Unbracered, you can still move at full speed with your armor. And Fighter is nice in that with a Belt you're 100% as efficient as every other Fighter on the planet. I'd definitely look at Battlemaster and probably go Duelist PAM with Spear + Shield or similar if I wanted to make the most out of it. It's a reasonable combination of tanky frontliner and solid damage dealer. You'd only have 20 AC with the Plate but that's still plenty most of the time. Otherwise you risk the turtle syndrome and probably will not be able to pull enough aggro to really do much especially since you'll have to do without 20 Str for a good while (unless you get Belt down the line). The other option is of course PAM/Great Weapon Fighting (Defense Style, GWM feat and use a Glaive; combine with PAM and Precision Attack + Trip Attack/similar for great success) which is more offensive and goes great with PAM and Sentinel: level 8 you can have PAM, Great Weapon Master and Sentinel, which is a brutal melee combo and still has you at 19 AC with Defense style and Plate, which is plenty against enemies who get up close and personal. Or Tunnel Fighting is the better style if DM allows UA.

Then level 10 would have Res: Wis and level 12 Lucky. That seems more than fine. Pretty cookie-cutter but that isn't necessarily a problem. One good option is also going Shadar-Kai Elf which opens up Elven Accuracy (goes great with GWM and Trip Attack): the teleport ability is a real sweet bonus for a Fighter; get in the thick of things and mess people up while you have resistance to damage for one turn. Good time to get in there and Action Surge 5-attack GWM+PAM people in the face (obviously you need to wait a level to get both).

[ThatoneGuy84]

With terrible rolls I'd be most likely to play something more in the line of Moon druid/Totem barbarian Multiclass.
Raging bear ect ect. And be main party tank while not really needing much for actual stats since most time you will be in animal form.

[Trandir]

Ok and Polearm Master it is then

[Mitchellnotes]

It sounds like you've moved past wizard... but I just wanted to throw out there that a conjuror could be fun. The lvl 10 bonus helps with a poor constitution, and you could even flavor it as the headband encouraging you to do.... questionable things. Like summon demons. Lots and lots of greater demons.

[Ettina]

What about an eldritch knight?

[Witty Username]

Well I got the goblin brain that wants to roll every time I get the chance. Sometimes I get lucky sometimes I don't. This is one of them, my array is: 13, 11, 11, 10, 10, 8

The DM however since this PC will being his journey at lv 5 has given for equipment: starting gear (130 gp worth of stuff), 2 common magic items, 1 uncommon magic items.

Now I wanted to play a wizard since they are pretty SAD and diviner allows to make the best out of poor intelligenge and halfling with lucky feat dice master meme. But then I remembered. I could take a headband of intellect to boost the 8 into 19. So is it a good idea to do so in this situation? Also any other advice helpful for this situation?

I say go for it, be a goblin or half-orc and maybe a backstory that magic was dropped on the character, or maybe an elvish noble that has gone to great lengths to conceal their lack of ability. Halfling would work pretty well to. I you look at these scores and think "doing this sounds like fun" go for it. If not, chat with your DM.

Gauntlets of ogre power can do a similar thing for strength builds, I want a paladin at some point that is a deku/captian america type that is too weak to fight but has gauntlets to allow them to function as a knight.