Twilight cleric is pretty damn good

[Snowbluff]

Your channel divinity makes dim light that gives refreshing THP and removes charms and frightens.

You can fly in dim or dark lightning, no concentration needed.

You have good spells, including greater invisibility, tiny hut, sleep...

You give advantage on init.

You get darkvision for free (hello, satyrs and meta humans!) with a good range and can give it to teammates.

All around this package is really spell. Have 2/SR channel divinities is really nice, since this option isn't at all situational since damage is something you will always encounter.

[Trustypeaches]

The Channel Divinity is overpowered, in my opinion.

When it was 1d8 each round (in UA), I thought it was a powerful channel divinity option for mitigating damage during an encounter. But now that it provides temp hp equal to 1d6+Cleric Level, it's the strongest form of group temp hp generation available in the game now, even outside of combat. It's stronger than Circle of the Shepherd's Bear Totem, Inspiring Leader, College of Glamour's Mantle of Inspiration. And it refreshes each round on top of that.

I get that they wanted to make it scale better into higher tiers of play but I think there were better ways of doing that, like increasing the size of the temp hp die or the number of die rolled (2d6 at 11, 3d6 at 17 or something). As it stands, the amount of damage mitigation their CD provides is encounter warping.

[stoutstien]

It's hard to judge this before play. The THP on end of turn might make it harder to apply than other sources. Looking at the shep druid for example, they can slap the THP right now to a group where the twilight cleric only gives themselves the THP that first turn.

Out of combat use has the cleric total THP a grand total of 3 higher than the druid. Not enough for pitchforks imo.

[Segev]

You can fly in dim or dark lightning, no concentration needed.

At will?! :smalleek:

Combine with Gloomstalker Ranger for godlike darkness presence.

[RogueJK]

At will?! :smalleek:

No. For 1 minute at a time, Proficiency Bonus times per Long Rest.


The Channel Divinity is overpowered, in my opinion.
But now that it provides temp hp equal to 1d6+Cleric Level, it's the strongest form of group temp hp generation available in the game now, even outside of combat. It's stronger than Circle of the Shepherd's Bear Totem, Inspiring Leader

Outside of combat, provided you have a +4 or +5 Charisma modifier, Inspiring Leader with CHAMOD+Character Level will provide 1 or 2 more Temp HP at one time on average than 1d6+Cleric Level. (And it's strictly better if multiclassed, since it's based on character level not specifically Cleric level).

So Inspiring Leader is better for "topping off" with Temp HP after a Short Rest outside of combat, but Twilight Sanctuary can be used mid-combat and can be refreshed each round for the duration.


And as mentioned above, Shepherd Druid's Bear aura Temp HP takes effect immediately upon activation on your turn, and at 5+Druid level will give 1.5 more Temp HP on average than Twilight Sanctuary. This amount is on par with Inspiring Leader with a 20 Charisma, plus can be used mid-combat. It just doesn't refresh each turn that the ally sticks near you like Twilight Sanctuary does.


So Twilight Sanctuary is better than either of those in some cases, but not overwhelmingly better in all situations.

[samcifer]

I'd play one as a chain-smoker in a business suit who likes to narrate other people's odd and supernatural experiences. Also, he'd be in black and white instead of in color.

[Klorox]

Your channel divinity makes dim light that gives refreshing THP and removes charms and frightens.

You can fly in dim or dark lightning, no concentration needed.

You have good spells, including greater invisibility, tiny hut, sleep...

You give advantage on init.

You get darkvision for free (hello, satyrs and meta humans!) with a good range and can give it to teammates.

All around this package is really spell. Have 2/SR channel divinities is really nice, since this option isn't at all situational since damage is something you will always encounter.

Somebody just entered into the arena of "classes I might play for 'Out of the Abyss'"

[Snowbluff]

I'd play one as a chain-smoker in a business suit who likes to narrate other people's odd and supernatural experiences. Also, he'd be in black and white instead of in color.

Noir DnD characters, jazz in the background, and god-granted mood lighting and evening wear (as Tasha literally puts it). I love it. :smallbiggrin:

[HappyDaze]

You can fly in dim or dark lightning, no concentration needed.

As written, you can only take the bonus action to give yourself a fly speed (lasting 1 minute) when in darkness or dim light. Once you've done that, nothing says the flight ends prematurely if you enter a brightly lit area.

[Yakmala]

It's certainly one of the best, if not the best, 1 level dips in the game now.

[Segev]

It's certainly one of the best, if not the best, 1 level dips in the game now.

300 ft. darkvision is pretty insane.

It's kind-of irksome that it's more than double what the Darkness Sorcerer gets.

Not so bad compared to Devil's Sight, at least; the Warlock Invocation trades 50 ft. of range for color vision and seeing as if brightly lit, even in magical darkness.

[MrCharlie]

Damn, I somehow missed that you add your cleric level. That's stupid good. I posted some other replies that look stupid now.

Anywho, Twilight was overpowered in UA and they made it worse in release. It's the best cleric dip most of the time because no other dip grants something like initiative advantage in addition to the proficiencies, let alone all the other nonsense you can do with it.

The only thing saving it for me is that the spell list is very situational, but it does get very good 1st level spells.

The end turn temp HP thing is kinduve impactful, and in practice I expect to see your bubble of safety resulting in a lot of peeved enemies lining up to take you to the park to stop the temp HP train, or a bunch of AOE spells being tossed at the party. However because every feature individually is theoretically strong even if a couple have situational weaknesses it still amounts to a bunch of OP nonsense. Never have a seen a domain give you so many good things, one after the other.

[MaxWilson]

Outside of combat, provided you have a +4 or +5 Charisma modifier, Inspiring Leader with CHAMOD+Character Level will provide 1 or 2 more Temp HP at one time on average than 1d6+Cleric Level. (And it's strictly better if multiclassed, since it's based on character level not specifically Cleric level).

So Inspiring Leader is better for "topping off" with Temp HP after a Short Rest outside of combat, but Twilight Sanctuary can be used mid-combat and can be refreshed each round for the duration.

... So Twilight Sanctuary is better than either of those in some cases, but not overwhelmingly better in all situations.

It is still better than Inspiring Leader outside of combat because they can just keep rerolling until they get a 6 (1 HP higher than Inspiring Leader can go), it's faster (a minute or less vs. 10 minutes per six creatures), and it works even if you don't share a language.

However, Inspiring Leader is much cheaper to acquire so that part is okay. It's only crazy-good in actual combat.

The shared 300' darkvision stuff is very strong too.


It's certainly one of the best, if not the best, 1 level dips in the game now.

Peace Cleric 1/Astral Monk X is the new Paladin/Hexblade. Finally a SAD monk!

[Trustypeaches]

No. For 1 minute at a time, Proficiency Bonus times per Long Rest.



Outside of combat, provided you have a +4 or +5 Charisma modifier, Inspiring Leader with CHAMOD+Character Level will provide 1 or 2 more Temp HP at one time on average than 1d6+Cleric Level. (And it's strictly better if multiclassed, since it's based on character level not specifically Cleric level).

So Inspiring Leader is better for "topping off" with Temp HP after a Short Rest outside of combat, but Twilight Sanctuary can be used mid-combat and can be refreshed each round for the duration.


And as mentioned above, Shepherd Druid's Bear aura Temp HP takes effect immediately upon activation on your turn, and at 5+Druid level will give 1.5 more Temp HP on average than Twilight Sanctuary. This amount is on par with Inspiring Leader with a 20 Charisma, plus can be used mid-combat. It just doesn't refresh each turn that the ally sticks near you like Twilight Sanctuary does.


So Twilight Sanctuary is better than either of those in some cases, but not overwhelmingly better in all situations.
Keep of mind that out of combat you can just keep rerolling the Twilight Sanctuary until you max roll on the d6 (similar to how Warlocks with the False Life Invocation often spam it between combats to get max roll).

So if you assume max roll on twilight sanctuary, which I think you should outside of combat, it outperforms all those other sources of temp hp: Bear totem, Inspiring Leader, Mantle of Inspiration, etc..

[stoutstien]

IMO Peace domain is exponentially more powerful than twilight. Twilight might provide another way of having a rechargeable THP battery but that isn't a new thing every party wants. Adding dice to important rolls that stack with other mechanics that can impact rolls is a shift in top/bottom of the power curve.

[jaappleton]

My only gripe is that I wish the temp HP from channel divinity scaled slightly (2d6 at level 11? Or bump to 1d8?)

Aside from that? No complaints. I really like it.

Ending charmed or frightened is amazing. If you've ever played CoS and dealt with Strahd, or read my posts about it on here, you are well aware as to just how BULLHONKY his Charm is. Oh, its brokenly frustrating to deal with. So I'm all for that ability. Also, remember that Dominations are Charms. (They are, right?)

Plus, the spell list. THE SPELL LIST. Lets not overlook this! Faerie Fire? Honestly one of the best first level spells in the game. Always useful to have. Circle of Power? Chefs kiss, so darn good. Greater Invisibility? Who doesn't love that? And legitimately one of my favorite spells in the game, Tiny Hut. I cannot overstate how much I love this spell, it provides a safe haven for a rest. Backs pressed up against the wall (metaphorically speaking), having this in your back pocket is a life saver. Sometimes literally.

Darkvision granting and (somewhat) conditional Flight are just pure icing on the cake at this point.

Top tier Domain.

[Merudo]

You can fly in dim or dark lightning, no concentration needed.


You can even fly in bright light. You just need to start flying in dim light or darkness.

[Trustypeaches]

IMO Peace domain is exponentially more powerful than twilight. Twilight might provide another way of having a rechargeable THP battery but that isn't a new thing every party wants. Adding dice to important rolls that stack with other mechanics that can impact rolls is a shift in top/bottom of the power curve.
I think "exponentially" might be an overstatement, but I agree Peace is also very very strong. Emboldening Bond is really impactful and grows in power tremendously as you level. It's a lot stronger as a dip though than a full class IMO, though, since the rest of it's features besides emboldening bond are kind of mediocre.

Also, you talk as if Twilight is "just another temp hp battery" but it vastly outperforms most other means of providing group temp hp. The only other "temp hp battery" at all comparable to Twilight Sanctuary is the Artillerist's Defender Turret, and even that doesn't scale nearly as well. And this is on top of several other excellent features and a strong domain spell list.


My only gripe is that I wish the temp HP from channel divinity scaled slightly (2d6 at level 11? Or bump to 1d8?)
It does scale. The temp hp is 1d6 + cleric level.

[KorvinStarmast]

You can even fly in bright light. You just need to start flying in dim light or darkness.
Which kinda stinks.
I think it would be kinda neat if someone casts light cantrip on a crossbow bolt and can get them to start falling if they score a hit. :smallbiggrin:

Seventy feet later - thump! - vertically, the cleric groans "I've fallen and I can't get up ..." as she drops to 0 HP.

But I guess that would really sour the attraction to that domain.

[MrCharlie]

IMO Peace domain is exponentially more powerful than twilight. Twilight might provide another way of having a rechargeable THP battery but that isn't a new thing every party wants. Adding dice to important rolls that stack with other mechanics that can impact rolls is a shift in top/bottom of the power curve.
Peace is good, it's not as good as twilight. You underestimate how important initiative is, alone, let alone all the other stuff it does. Peace also doesn't let you see the result before you use it and is once per turn-although I suppose that still lets you wait until someone elses turn to use it on a saving throw, which I suspect is an oversight.

It's close though-I mainly dispute your claim that peace is in any way exponentially more powerful than twilight, unless that exponent is 1.

[Trustypeaches]

Peace is good, it's not as good as twilight. You underestimate how important initiative is, alone, let alone all the other stuff it does. Peace also doesn't let you see the result before you use it and is once per turn-although I suppose that still lets you wait until someone elses turn to use it on a saving throw, which I suspect is an oversight.

There's no "waiting" involved.

You can use the 1d4 on an attack roll on your turn, then also add a 1d4 to a saving throw on someone elses turn. It's once-per-turn, not once-per-round.

[MrCharlie]

There's no "waiting" involved.

You can use the 1d4 on an attack roll on your turn, then also add a 1d4 to a saving throw on someone elses turn. It's once-per-turn, not once-per-round.
Poor choice of words-I realized that, I just didn't say it right. I suspect this is an oversight though.

[Trustypeaches]

Poor choice of words-I realized that, I just didn't say it right. I suspect this is an oversight though.
No, I think it is the intended design.

I think the main intention of the wording is so that Emboldening Bond is not strictly better than Bless for the purposes of boosting attack rolls.

[Snowbluff]

IMO Peace domain is exponentially more powerful than twilight. Twilight might provide another way of having a rechargeable THP battery but that isn't a new thing every party wants. Adding dice to important rolls that stack with other mechanics that can impact rolls is a shift in top/bottom of the power curve.


My only gripe is that I wish the temp HP from channel divinity scaled slightly (2d6 at level 11? Or bump to 1d8?)

You add your cleric level to the THP, and it refreshes each turn for the duration for no action. I think that easily outstrips the d4s the peace cleric gets just in shear bulk for your team.



Darkvision granting and (somewhat) conditional Flight are just pure icing on the cake at this point.

Top tier Domain.
The flight isn't really conditional, since the already super good channel divinity creates the condition for you to use it in.

[MrCharlie]

No, I think it is the intended design.

I think the main intention of the wording is so that Emboldening Bond is not strictly better than Bless for the purposes of boosting attack rolls.
Differences of opinion. But maybe I'm giving the designers too much credit for considering balance-it would occasionally be hard to decide when to use the bond if it was once/round and I had to consider if I might make a tough save later, or make an important AOO.

[Segev]

The "advantage on Initiative" thing seems weirdly tacked-on, to me. What's it got to do with "twilight?" Seems like it'd be a perfectly fine cleric spell, but as a specific-domain feature effect?

[Trustypeaches]

The "advantage on Initiative" thing seems weirdly tacked-on, to me. What's it got to do with "twilight?" Seems like it'd be a perfectly fine cleric spell, but as a specific-domain feature effect?
I think that advantage on initiative works well to capture the theming of vigilance against the dangers of the dark, which is a big part of the Twilight domain.

Quote from the text:

The darkness can also bring terrors, but the gods of twilight guard against the horrors of the night. Clerics who serve these deities-examples of which appear on the Twilight Deities table-bring comfort to those who seek rest and protect them by venturing into the encroaching darkness to ensure that the dark is a comfort, not a terror.

[stoutstien]

The "advantage on Initiative" thing seems weirdly tacked-on, to me. What's it got to do with "twilight?" Seems like it'd be a perfectly fine cleric spell, but as a specific-domain feature effect?

The advantage on initiative makes more sense than heavy armor.

[Segev]

The advantage on initiative makes more sense than heavy armor.

I actually disagree, here. Not because "heavy armor" is a "twilight-themed" thing, but because it seems to me Domains make one of two choices when formed: they either are melee cleric domains or spellcaster cleric domains. Melee domains get heavy armor and divine strike, while spellcasting ones get more cantrips and Potent Spellcasting. So it's "in theme" for cleric domains in general.

Advantage on Initiative is powerful and unique and doesn't seem to fit the themes of a Cleric Domain or of Twilight.

[KorvinStarmast]

Advantage on Initiative is powerful and unique and doesn't seem to fit the themes of a Cleric Domain or of Twilight.
It's a level 7 Barbarian class feature.
Feral Instinct

By 7th level, your instincts are so honed that you have advantage on initiative rolls. Additionally, if you are surprised at the beginning of combat and aren’t incapacitated, you can act normally on your first turn, but only if you enter your rage before doing anything else on that turn. Giving it to clerics at level 1 ... seems to me bad form.

Granted, it costs an action ...

[Gignere]

Tiny hut with a cleric is so abusable even more so than a wizard. So you basically ritually cast the Tiny Hut and just hold it and don’t cast it. Then whenever you need to fight boom cast it and suddenly your team can run in and out of an impenetrable fortress and the range attackers can all attack with advantage.

I say this is better than a wizard because at least if the wizard drops the tiny hut they really can’t do anything else to support the party except for maybe buff one or two people that run in and run out.

However as a cleric you can just heal party members that runs in and run back out and fight again and you can do this for the whole combat.

[jaappleton]

You add your cleric level to the THP, and it refreshes each turn for the duration for no action. I think that easily outstrips the d4s the peace cleric gets just in shear bulk for your team.


The flight isn't really conditional, since the already super good channel divinity creates the condition for you to use it in.

You’re right! I’d totally missed that it adds your Cleric level.

Wow that’s insanely good.

[MrCharlie]

Tiny hut with a cleric is so abusable even more so than a wizard. So you basically ritually cast the Tiny Hut and just hold it and don’t cast it. Then whenever you need to fight boom cast it and suddenly your team can run in and out of an impenetrable fortress and the range attackers can all attack with advantage.

I say this is better than a wizard because at least if the wizard drops the tiny hut they really can’t do anything else to support the party except for maybe buff one or two people that run in and run out.

However as a cleric you can just heal party members that runs in and run back out and fight again and you can do this for the whole combat.
Nothing says you can pause a spell at the cusp of finishing the cast. In fact, you clearly can't-you can't ready spells with casting times greater than 1 action, and no other mechanism lets you hold a cast. Unless you fight at exactly the 10 minute mark, no dice.

[Gignere]

Nothing says you can pause a spell at the cusp of finishing the cast. In fact, you clearly can't-you can't ready spells with casting times greater than 1 action, and no other mechanism lets you hold a cast. Unless you fight at exactly the 10 minute mark, no dice.

Oops my bad.

[MaxWilson]

IMO Peace domain is exponentially more powerful than twilight. Twilight might provide another way of having a rechargeable THP battery but that isn't a new thing every party wants. Adding dice to important rolls that stack with other mechanics that can impact rolls is a shift in top/bottom of the power curve.

Even worse, there's some wiggle room there: beneficiaries "can roll a d4 and add the number rolled to an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw it makes. Eah creature can add the d4 no more than once per turn."

Not only can you add the d4 once per turn, not just round (so basically every saving throw anyone ever makes gets that d4, with no concentration cost, because multiple monsters will force saves on separate turns), but also... technically nothing says you MUST add the die once you've rolled it. Could you roll it for an attack and then discard it instead of adding it, if you roll low enough that it wouldn't turn a miss into a hit, so you can try again on your next attack? I think it's probably not intended but I foresee uncertainty.

And it's tied to proficiency bonus so even a 1-level Peace Cleric dip will provide huge results.

[stoutstien]

Peace is good, it's not as good as twilight. You underestimate how important initiative is, alone, let alone all the other stuff it does. Peace also doesn't let you see the result before you use it and is once per turn-although I suppose that still lets you wait until someone elses turn to use it on a saving throw, which I suspect is an oversight.

It's close though-I mainly dispute your claim that peace is in any way exponentially more powerful than twilight, unless that exponent is 1.

I guess I look at twilight and see nothing new and is fairly party dependant and peace is a domain that can completely warp tactics and can feel like they more than the sum of their features.

Protective bond allows for some interesting options for controlling enemies damage that is almost impossible to counter. Wonder how this works with wording bond....so many bonds in this domain

[MrCharlie]

I guess I look at twilight and see nothing new and is fairly party dependant and peace is a domain that can completely warp tactics and can feel like they more than the sum of their features.

Protective bond allows for some interesting options for controlling enemies damage that is almost impossible to counter. Wonder how this works with wording bond....so many bonds in this domain

I feel the same way about peace. We already have warding bond and a paladin domain that do that, and it's good but doesen't change much. Bless and guidance do the other effects, although the fact that they stack is amazing, and the multiple times per round thing letting you basically always use it on saves is getting hotfixed in my games until a reprint fixes it generally, which I expect to see.

I do agree that twilight is not novel, but how practical it is about doing what it does is novel. Darkvision to others isn't implausible, but this is easy to use and affects a lot of others. Initiative advantage isn't new, but this is basically free. Temp HP spam isn't new, but this is so much temp HP. Flying isn't new, but this is a level six feature, and the conditions needed to make it aren't that uncommon.

Twilight just keeps hitting good abilities across such a wide range of features that I have to give it an A++. Peace does two things but does them well enough for an A++. I rank them both as the strongest domains printed yet, with a few others on the same tier, but they tend to be good at much higher levels.


Even worse, there's some wiggle room there: beneficiaries "can roll a d4 and add the number rolled to an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw it makes. Eah creature can add the d4 no more than once per turn."

Not only can you add the d4 once per turn, not just round (so basically every saving throw anyone ever makes gets that d4, with no concentration cost, because multiple monsters will force saves on separate turns), but also... technically nothing says you MUST add the die once you've rolled it. Could you roll it for an attack and then discard it instead of adding it, if you roll low enough that it wouldn't turn a miss into a hit, so you can try again on your next attack? I think it's probably not intended but I foresee uncertainty.

And it's tied to proficiency bonus so even a 1-level Peace Cleric dip will provide huge results.
I'd be very skeptical of a ruling like that. It says "can roll and add", sure, and you can read that as connected or separate, but no other ability in the game works that way without clearly saying that you don't expend it unless you choose to use it. Soul Knife, for instance, does explicitly say that it doesn't get expended unless it ends up influencing the results.

[Hael]

Twilight clerics basically breaks the game with certain groups. Couple them with a shepherd druid or a necromancer wizard and your Dm will be waving the white flag soon enough. (unicorn spirit healing + this aura... yikes)

Peace clerics are really abusable as a single dip class.. Also makes a very strong tank class with a 6 lvl dip.. I foresee an oath of the ancient paladin tank really enjoying this.

[RogueJK]

I feel the same way about peace. We already have warding bond and a paladin domain that do that, and it's good but doesen't change much. Bless and guidance do the other effects, although the fact that they stack is amazing, and the multiple times per round thing letting you basically always use it on saves is getting hotfixed in my games until a reprint fixes it generally, which I expect to see.

There's also the fact that it doesn't require Concentration, which is huge. Probably the most potent part of it.

No chance of dropping it after losing Concentration, and you can use it alongside another Concentration effect.

Before, you had to choose between Bless (which is always useful) and a different Concentration spell (which are sometimes more useful and therefore can take precedence). Now you no longer have to choose.

Better yet, any character can now dip just one level to get it, and it scales with Character Level/Proficiency Bonus. So any character can now become a great party buffer, without using their Concentration or having to cast a spell.

[Sepaulchre]

Peace is really good.

If you can get it up before combat (and at 10 minutes that shouldn’t be so hard), it also applies to everyone’s initiative check. And stacks with guidance.

[stoutstien]

Clerics did come out ahead with tasha. Only complaint is once again they got the short stick with new spells but they did get sunbeam finally along side all the aura spells.

[micahaphone]

I'm still salty that unity became peace. Unity domain I can easily see myself playing, could be very fun do-gooder. But Peace seems like it could hit similar RP problems to Redemption pally, or Miko (is that the right name?) from OotS.

The last 10 words or so might help avoid this, but I'm still hesitant.


Clerics of the Peace Domain preside over the signing of treaties, and they are often asked to arbitrate in disputes. These clerics' blessings draw people together and help them shoulder one another's burdens, and the clerics' magic aids those who are driven to fight for the way of peace.

[Sepaulchre]

I'm still salty that unity became peace. Unity domain I can easily see myself playing, could be very fun do-gooder. But Peace seems like it could hit similar RP problems to Redemption pally, or Miko (is that the right name?) from OotS.

The last 10 words or so might help avoid this, but I'm still hesitant.

I’m with you. I guess the Pax Romana was still a pax.

[stoutstien]

I'm still salty that unity became peace. Unity domain I can easily see myself playing, could be very fun do-gooder. But Peace seems like it could hit similar RP problems to Redemption pally, or Miko (is that the right name?) from OotS.

The last 10 words or so might help avoid this, but I'm still hesitant.

Eh flavor text aside, a peace cleric as a over cheerful but uncharismatic motivational coach who heals everyone by running by and giving high fives while quoting cringy feel good crap is now in to be played list.

[MaxWilson]

I'd be very skeptical of a ruling like that. It says "can roll and add", sure, and you can read that as connected or separate, but no other ability in the game works that way without clearly saying that you don't expend it unless you choose to use it. Soul Knife, for instance, does explicitly say that it doesn't get expended unless it ends up influencing the results.

I just wish it said "can roll... once per round" instead of "can add... once per turn." I agree that it's probably not intended to let you discard rolls, but then again I thought Crossbow Expert wasn't intended to let you fire the same crossbow with your bonus action that you used with your main action... and then they removed the "fire a loaded crosdbow" language in errata and it turned out I was wrong, it _is_ supposed to be that strong.

I'm not planning on running Tasha's anyway (despite buying it) so I guess it doesn't matter to me. This Twilight and Peace domain stuff is crazy-strong.


I'm still salty that unity became peace. Unity domain I can easily see myself playing, could be very fun do-gooder. But Peace seems like it could hit similar RP problems to Redemption pally, or Miko (is that the right name?) from OotS.

The last 10 words or so might help avoid this, but I'm still hesitant.

IMO "Peace Domain" should have been called "Order Domain" because it totally is. And then Order Domain can become Tyranny Domain (a.k.a. Mind Control domain), which it totally is.

[micahaphone]

Eh flavor text aside, a peace cleric as a over cheerful but uncharismatic motivational coach who heals everyone by running by and giving high fives while quoting cringy feel good crap is now in to be played list.

Little League coach accidentally gets roped into stopping the dragon cult

[Swosh]

I'm still salty that unity became peace. Unity domain I can easily see myself playing, could be very fun do-gooder. But Peace seems like it could hit similar RP problems to Redemption pally, or Miko (is that the right name?) from OotS.

The last 10 words or so might help avoid this, but I'm still hesitant.

I totally agree with you, especially about the Channel Divinity feature. The unity domains channel divinity was such a unique and cool ability. I dont understand why they would replace it with such a booring and generic ability from the peace domain. Its not like it was any balance issues either, concidering how they acctually buffed the Emboldening Bond feature from 2-connected creatures to proficency-connected creatures.

[Sepaulchre]

I played the UA unity cleric in a level 5 one-shot, and the moment I saved a party member from going down to a one shot crit and channeled all the damage to raging barbarian felt very cool and epic.

It’s a disappointing change.

[stoutstien]

I just wish it said "can roll... once per round" instead of "can add... once per turn." I agree that it's probably not intended to let you discard rolls, but then again I thought Crossbow Expert wasn't intended to let you fire the same crossbow with your bonus action that you used with your main action... and then they removed the "fire a loaded crosdbow" language in errata and it turned out I was wrong, it _is_ supposed to be that strong.

I'm not planning on running Tasha's anyway (despite buying it) so I guess it doesn't matter to me. This Twilight and Peace domain stuff is crazy-strong.



IMO "Peace Domain" should have been called "Order Domain" because it totally is. And then Order Domain can become Tyranny Domain (a.k.a. Mind Control domain), which it totally is.

Agreed on both fronts. They did so well with ERLW with only a handful of unclear mechanical text but so far I I'm up to 15 and I'm still in fighter so far.

They never been good at naming classes/subclasses.

[Swosh]

I played the UA unity cleric in a level 5 one-shot, and the moment I saved a party member from going down to a one shot crit and channeled all the damage to raging barbarian felt very cool and epic.

It’s a disappointing change.

Yeah exacly! Its probably the coolest ability of the hole subclass and they removed it. Way to be a good designer :biggrin:

[MaxWilson]

Little League coach accidentally gets roped into stopping the dragon cult
I wonder if the ability to teleport in front of someone to take a hit for them would be useful during a baseball game. I guess the batter could take an out for the guy coming from third base?


Yeah exacly! Its probably the coolest ability of the hole subclass and they removed it. Way to be a good designer :biggrin:


I played the UA unity cleric in a level 5 one-shot, and the moment I saved a party member from going down to a one shot crit and channeled all the damage to raging barbarian felt very cool and epic.

It’s a disappointing change.

Removed what? What's the disappointment again? Is it just the fact that now you can't do this until level 6? Peace Cleric is actually better at this trick than Unity was (going by http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/cleric:unity-domain-ua): the Barbarian could take that damage EVERY ROUND. And it's nice that the barbarian gets to spend his own reaction on it instead of yours--it's his choice to take one for the team, not the cleric's.

[Sepaulchre]

Removed what? What's the disappointment again? Is it just the fact that now you can't do this until level 6? Peace Cleric is actually better at this trick than Unity was (going by (can’t post urls) the Barbarian could take that damage EVERY ROUND. And it's nice that the barbarian gets to spend his own reaction on it instead of yours--it's his choice to take one for the team, not the cleric's.

That’s a fair point. I thought the old level 6 ability to grant resistance allowed for some nice teamwork plays, but you’re right to point out that the ole barbearian can do this constantly now, and that’s pretty sweet.

[stoutstien]

I played the UA unity cleric in a level 5 one-shot, and the moment I saved a party member from going down to a one shot crit and channeled all the damage to raging barbarian felt very cool and epic.

It’s a disappointing change.

Max beat me to it but yea peace is better than utility UA. Anyone who is bonded can redirect damage/teleport themselves as a reaction. That is a big boost if you have an ally down and you don't want them to be double tapped.

Just realized that emboldened bond work even if you are unconscious so it help death STs.

[Swosh]

I wonder if the ability to teleport in front of someone to take a hit for them would be useful during a baseball game. I guess the batter could take an out for the guy coming from third base?





Removed what? What's the disappointment again? Is it just the fact that now you can't do this until level 6? Peace Cleric is actually better at this trick than Unity was (going by http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/cleric:unity-domain-ua): the Barbarian could take that damage EVERY ROUND. And it's nice that the barbarian gets to spend his own reaction on it instead of yours--it's his choice to take one for the team, not the cleric's.

I have to disagree, being able to spread out massive amounts of damage (where you get to decide the distribution) instead of delivering it to a single person is far superior. It provides you with a huge flexibility. As a frontliner the barbarian most likely already have relativly low HP from all the tanking he normally does. If he then takes all of the damage maybe he goes down? Being able to eliviate pressure of a single person onto the hole party also makes AoE healing spells viable.

[MaxWilson]

I have to disagree, being able to spread out massive amounts of damage (where you get to decide the distribution) instead of delivering it to a single person is far superior. It provides you with a huge flexibility. As a frontliner the barbarian most likely already have relativly low HP from all the tanking he normally does. If he then takes all of the damage maybe he goes down? Being able to eliviate pressure of a single person onto the hole party also makes AoE healing spells viable.

But it's not the same amount of damage. Unity Domain let you spread out one hit (moderate-to-large amount of damage). Peace Domain lets you spread out a whole combat's worth of damage. You're totally right that fine control is valuable, but is it more valuable than increasing the amount of damage you can spread by an order of magnitude?

I guess I can see it either way, I was just confused by the other poster expressing disappointment about the Barbarian scenario.

[Sepaulchre]

But it's not the same amount of damage. Unity Domain let you spread out one hit (moderate-to-large amount of damage). Peace Domain lets you spread out a whole combat's worth of damage. You're totally right that fine control is valuable, but is it more valuable than increasing the amount of damage you can spread by an order of magnitude?

I guess I can see it either way, I was just confused by the other poster expressing disappointment about the Barbarian scenario.

I hadn’t fully considered the level 6 ability, and frankly had unfairly discounted it because I know the people I generally play with would be unlikely to remember they could do this EDIT: without extensive metagaming or annoying constant in character reminders.

[Swosh]

But it's not the same amount of damage. Unity Domain let you spread out one hit (moderate-to-large amount of damage). Peace Domain lets you spread out a whole combat's worth of damage. You're totally right that fine control is valuable, but is it more valuable than increasing the amount of damage you can spread by an order of magnitude?

I guess I can see it either way, I was just confused by the other poster expressing disappointment about the Barbarian scenario.

True you get to use it way more often, however the way i see it is quantity vs quality. Its like saying you can cast more Cure Wounds than Mass Heal. Would you then say Cure Wounds is better? I would easily take 2x "Mass Heal" like distribution effect during a combat than a single person taking all the damage, potensially going down or losing concentration beacuse of the DC was too high. Another thing to also note is that the Peace Domain feature is much more reliant on every party member having their reaction ready, which is highly unreliable. If the "best person" for taking the damage already has used his reaction, what then?

[Hael]

Summons count as well. You have 6 reactions that are willing and able to tank some hits.

[Swosh]

Summons count as well. You have 6 reactions that are willing and able to tank some hits.

Thats assuming your level 17+ which most people never get to.

[stoutstien]

Thats assuming your level 17+ which most people never get to.

Could have some fun with tiny servant or artificer 2 (spell wrought tattoo) for familiar for everyone.
The bond bonus to rolls would go to waste but being able to eat massive attacks is comical

[ThatDuckGrant]

One other thing about the incredible twilight channel divinity is the guaranteed advantage for shadow blade. I haven’t figured out exactly the best way to make this work yet, but if you happen to have a Bladesinger, Arcane Trickster, or Eldritch Knight in your party, the two of you are going to make one hell of a team.

[bendking]

It is most definitely a top tier domain, but I wouldn't call it OP as some here do. The Channel Divinity, on paper, seems absolutely wild though.

Regarding dips, I can't agree that it's the best cleric dip. Sure, 300ft. Darkvision is really good, but I wouldn't say it's worth losing a level of progression in most cases.
The best level 1 dips would have to be the Order, Peace, and Life domains. Those effects are truly game-changing and scalable into later tiers.

[Cikomyr2]

It is most definitely a top tier domain, but I wouldn't call it OP as some here do. The Channel Divinity, on paper, seems absolutely wild though.

Regarding dips, I can't agree that it's the best cleric dip. Sure, 300ft. Darkvision is really good, but I wouldn't say it's worth losing a level of progression in most cases.
The best level 1 dips would have to be the Order, Peace, and Life domains. Those effects are truly game-changing and scalable into later tiers.

Level 1 dips grants you:

- Heavy Armor + Martial weapons
- Darkvision 300, shareable with team
- Advantage on initiative
- Sleep and Faerie Fire as bonus domain spells, two very solid lvl 1

Sounds like a solid dip to me

[bendking]

Level 1 dips grants you:

- Heavy Armor + Martial weapons
- Darkvision 300, shareable with team
- Advantage on initiative
- Sleep and Faerie Fire as bonus domain spells, two very solid lvl 1

Sounds like a solid dip to me

I didn't say it's not solid, I said there are better ones out there.

[Darzil]

Cleric dips tend to be more powerful than average as they get their subclasses at level one not level three. With so many being front loaded also, they are very good single level dips.