D&D 5e Powergamer's Tactics Room Deep Dive Series: Ingested Poisons

[Bilbron]

So it turns out that you CAN force enemies to consume ingested poisons... but SHOULD you? Watch to find out!

4:40

https://youtu.be/4KPOe0D9hio

[MaxWilson]

I found this video's tone very amusing with all the implicit eyerolling. :) Glad to have the discussion.

Very important note RE: incapacitation. Per PHB 189 (or https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#BonusActions),

"anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action."

So contrary to what's said in the video, an incapacitated foe cannot fight back with bonus action spells/etc. It's a safer effect than unconscious-unless-damaged because it's harder to break. No accidental AoEs or deliberate minor attacks from minions (or torches held by Short Round) are going to bring a Torpored beholder back into the fight. For the same reason there's no penalty for delivering the poison in advance--a Chainlock's Sprite or Shadow Monk who sneaks in and poisons an enemy spellcaster with Essence of Ether may not have accomplished anything, if someone else just shakes them awake. But Torpor isn't so easily countered.

Since PCs are generally pretty good at curing poisons, there's another application as well: maneuvering enemy monsters into conflict with each other. While Torpor doesn't prevent movement, grappling does, and Torpor prevents breaking a grapple. It also prevents lockpicking. Therefore Torpor enables kidnapping. Magic has concentration limits and tends to run out after an hour, so if you want to take a couple of Spirit Trolls from one place in an adventure and e.g. drop them via Teleportation Circle in the drow army's barracks in another part of the adventure, you're not doing that via Polymorph. But you could do it via Torpor + Suggestion or Command, and then just cure the poison when you want to activate the trolls. It's a unique capability that you can't get from magic without spending concentration. Worth thinking about when making plans, especially in adventures complex enough to have multiple factions. Why kill a beholder when you could instead kidnap it and use it to wipe out a bunch of giants while framing the Mind Flayers for the kidnapping (via Disguise Self or Seeming or maybe even just plain disguises)? Many things become possible when an enemy is incapacitated for hours. Essence of Ether is similar but more fragile--I'd be more nervous about something waking up the beholder, more eager to just kill it immediately.

[Bilbron]

I found this video's tone very amusing with all the implicit eyerolling. :) Glad to have the discussion.

Very important note RE: incapacitation. Per PHB 189 (or https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#BonusActions),

"anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action."

So contrary to what's said in the video, an incapacitated foe cannot fight back with bonus action spells/etc. It's a safer effect than unconscious-unless-damaged because it's harder to break. No accidental AoEs or deliberate minor attacks from minions (or torches held by Short Round) are going to bring a Torpored beholder back into the fight. For the same reason there's no penalty for delivering the poison in advance--a Chainlock's Sprite or Shadow Monk who sneaks in and poisons an enemy spellcaster with Essence of Ether may not have accomplished anything, if someone else just shakes them awake. But Torpor isn't so easily countered.

Since PCs are generally pretty good at curing poisons, there's another application as well: maneuvering enemy monsters into conflict with each other. While Torpor doesn't prevent movement, grappling does, and Torpor prevents breaking a grapple. It also prevents lockpicking. Therefore Torpor enables kidnapping. Magic has concentration limits and tends to run out after an hour, so if you want to take a couple of Spirit Trolls from one place in an adventure and e.g. drop them via Teleportation Circle in the drow army's barracks in another part of the adventure, you're not doing that via Polymorph. But you could do it via Torpor + Suggestion or Command, and then just cure the poison when you want to activate the trolls. It's a unique capability that you can't get from magic without spending concentration. Worth thinking about when making plans, especially in adventures complex enough to have multiple factions. Why kill a beholder when you could instead kidnap it and use it to wipe out a bunch of giants while framing the Mind Flayers for the kidnapping (via Disguise Self or Seeming or maybe even just plain disguises)? Many things become possible when an enemy is incapacitated for hours. Essence of Ether is similar but more fragile--I'd be more nervous about something waking up the beholder, more eager to just kill it immediately.Great, cogent reply! I appreciate the lesson. Mind if I paste it into the vid description so my viewers have this additional analysis?