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Arkhios
2020-11-20, 05:14 AM
I was reading the Council of Thieves Player's Guide a while ago, and the wording of a certain Campaign Trait struck as odd to me:


Infernal Bastard: You are a tiefling. You might be an escaped slave, a hidden shame, or a homeless vagabond, but whatever your upbringing, life has been particularly hard on you. You have suffered greatly, nearly starving to death one winter, nearly being beaten to death by racist sailors one summer, and so on. Whether or not these experiences have made you a bitter and cynical scoundrel or a pious and hopeful optimist is up to you, but one thing is certain—you are something less than even your tiefling kin. Perhaps it is a result of your hard life, or perhaps it is due to some fault in your fiendish heritage, but you lack a tiefling’s standard resistances to cold, electricity, and fire—instead, you merely have a +2 bonus on all saving throws made against these effects. Likewise, you do not have the ability to use darkness as a spell-like ability once per day—instead, you may choose any one 0-level spell that you can instead use at will as a spell-like ability.

If I'm reading this as written; it's a campaign trait and it doesn't say you have to be a tiefling in order to take this trait, and so as written, the trait simply states that you are a tiefling (regardless of your actual race).
In other words, it seems that you can take the trait as a member of any race, not just tiefling, and the trait means you're treated as if you were a tiefling, even though you might be, for example, a dwarf otherwise.

I couldn't find any answers regarding this particular notion. If there's been any official errata's on this trait, I'd appreciate seeing it myself from it's original source.

Kurald Galain
2020-11-20, 06:02 AM
If I'm reading this as written; it's a campaign trait and it doesn't say you have to be a tiefling
No, the trait states you have to be a tiefling. That's literally its first sentence.

Arkhios
2020-11-20, 06:45 AM
No, the trait states you have to be a tiefling. That's literally its first sentence.

Literally, it states you are a tiefling. Literally, it doesn't say you must be a tiefling in order to take the trait.

Kurald Galain
2020-11-20, 06:54 AM
Maybe if you tell us what combo you're looking for, we can tell you an actual rules-legal way of getting it.

Or was your point just "Ha-hah, some rules are poorly edited"?

Arkhios
2020-11-20, 07:21 AM
Maybe if you tell us what combo you're looking for, we can tell you an actual rules-legal way of getting it.

Or was your point just "Ha-hah, some rules are poorly edited"?

Do you always need an ulterior motive to ask for an official ruling you couldn't find elsewhere?

I didn't have any combo in particular in mind. I just read that since it's a campaign trait, it should be treated as available to everyone by default. I was wondering if there is indeed something that overrules the wording in the original player's guide. I wasn't mocking anything or anyone. Simply curious.

Kish
2020-11-20, 07:24 AM
'This trait is designed to "depower" the basic tiefling race to bring it more in line with the power afforded to a typical PC race.' (page 5 of the Player's Guide)

Beyond that, the only argument I'm seeing here goes in the same category as "drowning heals you" or "it never says you have to have your eyes closed when you sleep." There's no actual ambiguity that the character with that trait is a tiefling, which is not a dwarf or a human or any race but a tiefling. There's nothing to rule, nothing to overrule, and no implication that a non-tiefling can take that trait.

Arkhios
2020-11-20, 08:05 AM
'This trait is designed to "depower" the basic tiefling race to bring it more in line with the power afforded to a typical PC race.' (page 5 of the Player's Guide)

Beyond that, the only argument I'm seeing here goes in the same category as "drowning heals you" or "it never says you have to have your eyes closed when you sleep." There's no actual ambiguity that the character with that trait is a tiefling, which is not a dwarf or a human or any race but a tiefling. There's nothing to rule, nothing to overrule, and no implication that a non-tiefling can take that trait.

Thank you. For whatever it's worth, I was just reading the traits, and saw this trait, felt it was strange, as without the clarification on page 5, I still argue it can be understood the way I did. It didn't occur to me to search a clarification elsewhere than the Traits section of the Player's Guide, because I've learned to expect weird wordings like these from Paizo, that may have been fixed later. :smallbiggrin:
I still think that this clarification is in a very odd place, and should instead be said somewhere near the Traits.