Are Planar Allies a reliable source of knowledge?

[Conradine]

A low level character manages to conjure a fiend using the Sacrifice rules of BoVD. According to the sacrifice rules:


"evil outsider appears and serves celebrant for 1 hour per HD of the victim, serving as described in the lesser planar ally spell"


If I understood correctly, the sacrifice already paid for the outider's services. So, if the celebrant asks to the fiend:

1- teach me arcane magic?
2- teach me divine magic?
3- teach me infernal law ( devil's only )
4- teach me arcane / religion / planar lore?


Can the fiend be a reliable source of knowledge? The sacrifice force vincolates him/her/it to do his best, or the fiend will try to screw up which the would-be student?


----

Secondary question: are fiend irritated, indifferent or pleased by flattery ( bowing, showing respect, humble approach, offering additional sacrifices without requesting anything ecc.? )

[liquidformat]

How reliable any help or information a fiend provides really depends on the fiend, the information, and the way you setup the binding spell and contract. So possibly seems like the right answer here.

As far as the second question goes, remember that in most settings fiends are strongly related to the seven deadly sins and even when they aren't they still often embody them (pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath, and sloth.) so flattery and showing subservience plays well to their pride and giving them extra sacrifices would play on their greed, envy, and gluttony. So in general yes they would be pleased though some might try and hide that...

[Zanos]

Planar Ally is a servant of the deity sent to aid you. Since it's specifically a reward for a sacrifice to an Evil god, I would argue that yes, the fiend should be a reliable source of information. You have to factor in though that it is still overwhelmingly Evil, so while it might not intentionally mislead the character with outright lies, it's highly likely that any advice or knowledge it gives will be biased. If you ask an Evil planar entity how to become a better arcane spellcaster, it's probably going to point you in a direction that involves a lot of Evil behavior.


Secondary question: are fiend irritated, indifferent or pleased by flattery ( bowing, showing respect, humble approach, offering additional sacrifices without requesting anything ecc.? )
This varies greatly depending on the fiend. Most fiends value power, if you treat a fiend as though it is your superior, it is going to treat you like an inferior. Being flattering and humble and giving them gifts might be a way to stay their hand if you're at their mercy, but it is not a good foundation for a long term relationship. If it can take advantage of you, it will. When dealing with fiends, I remember this advice: "Do not call up that which you cannot put down."

[Tvtyrant]

A low level character manages to conjure a fiend using the Sacrifice rules of BoVD. According to the sacrifice rules:




If I understood correctly, the sacrifice already paid for the outider's services. So, if the celebrant asks to the fiend:

1- teach me arcane magic?
2- teach me divine magic?
3- teach me infernal law ( devil's only )
4- teach me arcane / religion / planar lore?


Can the fiend be a reliable source of knowledge? The sacrifice force vincolates him/her/it to do his best, or the fiend will try to screw up which the would-be student?


----

Secondary question: are fiend irritated, indifferent or pleased by flattery ( bowing, showing respect, humble approach, offering additional sacrifices without requesting anything ecc.? )

I think it would depend on the type of fiend. The goal of Devils is to spread evil, so if you are willing to kill people for knowledge they are going to respond quite happily. After all, if seeing you become successful gets other people to start pulling people to the altar...



Side note: I had a setting I was working on at one point where there was a Veil between Hell and the setting that was damaged by atrocities. Fiends could only step through if the Veil was torn enough, so to encourage people to commit sacrifices they would serve them and pretended they had to do so with the goal of slowly destroying the whole thing and causing the world to slide into Hell. Armies that engaged in mass human sacrifice had demonic legions that could only be countered by adopting the same tactics, and the Blood Wars were halted by the building of artifacts that restored the Veil by eating into the world's magic (so spells were effectively gone.)

[Segev]

This varies greatly depending on the fiend. Most fiends value power, if you treat a fiend as though it is your superior, it is going to treat you like an inferior. Being flattering and humble and giving them gifts might be a way to stay their hand if you're at their mercy, but it is not a good foundation for a long term relationship. If it can take advantage of you, it will. When dealing with fiends, I remember this advice: "Do not call up that which you cannot put down."

Likewise, however, treating it as if you were its superior and disrespecting it is liable to make it mad. Especially if all you have over it is the summoning. Treating it as a valued ally with whom you have an amicable transaction, flattering without being obsequious, and showing respect for its demonstrable skills and knowledge without acting awed or overwhelmed is probably your best bet. You are strong and confident, and you have called forth a potent being whose skills you value (or you wouldn't have spent so much to call it).

[Zanos]

Likewise, however, treating it as if you were its superior and disrespecting it is liable to make it mad. Especially if all you have over it is the summoning. Treating it as a valued ally with whom you have an amicable transaction, flattering without being obsequious, and showing respect for its demonstrable skills and knowledge without acting awed or overwhelmed is probably your best bet. You are strong and confident, and you have called forth a potent being whose skills you value (or you wouldn't have spent so much to call it).
You don't have to disrespect it, but you should operate from a position of strength. A long term mutually beneficial relationship where both parties respect eachother is not really in the nature of fiends. You could try something like that, but only if you can basically guarantee that it is never in the fiends interests to harm you at all, and even that won't help if you're dealing with a demon.

[Telonius]

Yeah, heavily "depends on the fiend" here. Devils are probably going to be somewhat more reliable than Demons, in that they won't tell you an outright falsehood; they are Lawful Evil. But they'll make the truth stand on its head if it suits their purpose, so treat with extreme caution. With a Demon, trust them as far as your party Wizard can throw them. "Unreliable" doesn't begin to cover it.

[Spiderswims]

This will depend on things like the rules and setting, but also go by each individual fiend.

1.Generally no. At the most with the sacrifice you might get a whole day, 24 hours, with the fiend. So you you are not going to learn arcane magic in a day or less. And, of course, the fiend summoned would also have to know arcane magic in the first place.

2.This is just about a no. First you can't learn divine magic in a day or less. Second, very few fiends are any type of divine casters.

3.Sure, is somewhat possible. At least as much as you could learn in less then a day or so. Of course, you'd still need to have a fiend that knew all about law. And even finding a fiend that knows about law would only teach you what that fiend knows about law. Unless you find a fiend law professor or such to summon.

4.Just like three. Sure for the day or less the fiend can tell you anything it knows.


5.No, in general, a fiend is not a reliable source of knowledge. Though this is mostly true with just about anyone, too. But fiends are especially bias to say the least.

6.By default a fiend will try to screw with anyone the can. And even if the fiend is 'forced' somehow best their best or such...they will still often try to screw over others. For example they might leave out information or use word trickery. Or just be vague.

7.How a fiend reacts to anything would depend by each individually. Each fiend is a person and might react anyway.


In general, you might want to summon just about ANY other creature then a fiend for information.

[Conradine]

About learning in a day, that's not necessary. Sacrifices can be repeated in different days as long as required.




This varies greatly depending on the fiend. Most fiends value power, if you treat a fiend as though it is your superior, it is going to treat you like an inferior. Being flattering and humble and giving them gifts might be a way to stay their hand if you're at their mercy, but it is not a good foundation for a long term relationship. If it can take advantage of you, it will. When dealing with fiends, I remember this advice: "Do not call up that which you cannot put down."


The problem is that a level 2-3 commoner that leads a cult in an isolated community is, at least initially, helpless in front of a fiend.
The only things that binds it to serve is the power of the sacrifice.



In general, you might want to summon just about ANY other creature then a fiend for information.

A low level character can summon only fiends using the Sacrifice rules.

[Psyren]

You don't have to disrespect it, but you should operate from a position of strength. A long term mutually beneficial relationship where both parties respect eachother is not really in the nature of fiends. You could try something like that, but only if you can basically guarantee that it is never in the fiends interests to harm you at all, and even that won't help if you're dealing with a demon.

This. Sturdily chaining up a tiger is a form of respecting it, or at least respecting its capabilities. And these tigers are sapient, malevolent, and immortal.

[Conradine]

Guys, Sacrifice rules allow for Planar ALLY , not for Planar Binding.

[Zanos]

Yeah, heavily "depends on the fiend" here. Devils are probably going to be somewhat more reliable than Demons, in that they won't tell you an outright falsehood; they are Lawful Evil. But they'll make the truth stand on its head if it suits their purpose, so treat with extreme caution. With a Demon, trust them as far as your party Wizard can throw them. "Unreliable" doesn't begin to cover it.
If a demon is free to do as it wishes, sure. I wouldn't ask a demon I met in the Abyss for anything. The only thing I'd say to it are the verbal spell components for whatever spell I have memorized that most swiftly causes death.

But if a dark god is specifically sending a fiend to aid someone as a reward for a blood sacrifice, it should be at least somewhat helpful. Being Evil has perks, and getting your god to reward you with knowledge using a demon as a proxy could be one of them. Basically the question for planar ally shouldn't be whether or not you trust the demon, but whether or not you trust the deity. Lloth probably wouldn't send one of her loyal drow worshipers a demon that is going to eat their legs as a reward for a human sacrifice, even if the entity is CE and Lloth is a god of trickery. She is still going to try to advance the cause of the Drow in the material plane. But that might include sending a demon to devour a Drow that isn't particularly canny and wouldn't have made it far anyway.


The problem is that a level 2-3 commoner that leads a cult in an isolated community is, at least initially, helpless in front of a fiend.
The only things that binds it to serve is the power of the sacrifice.
Not all power is physical, the very nature of the relationship is that you're being rewarded by a god with the fiends service for your sacrifice. While you probably shouldn't bully one of your gods messengers, giving it orders is appropriate. If you are to venerate it, I would do so in terms that honor the deity, not the fiend itself.

I might try to find a LE deity that genuinely cares for their followers interests, or is at least not actively malicious and unnecessarily brutal, though. A good choice will dependent on the setting and the character's own personal goals.


Guys, Sacrifice rules allow for Planar ALLY , not for Planar Binding.
I hope my posts have been reflecting that I know that; you should still be careful with Evil entities. This is a pretty good set of circumstances to associate with one, but you should still be wary. As an aside, planar binding doesn't work how people think it does either. It's slavery, not a willing negotiation.

[Jazath]

A low level character manages to conjure a fiend using the Sacrifice rules of BoVD. According to the sacrifice rules:




If I understood correctly, the sacrifice already paid for the outider's services. So, if the celebrant asks to the fiend:

1- teach me arcane magic?
2- teach me divine magic?
3- teach me infernal law ( devil's only )
4- teach me arcane / religion / planar lore?


Can the fiend be a reliable source of knowledge? The sacrifice force vincolates him/her/it to do his best, or the fiend will try to screw up which the would-be student?


----

Secondary question: are fiend irritated, indifferent or pleased by flattery ( bowing, showing respect, humble approach, offering additional sacrifices without requesting anything ecc.? )

As to both your questions it varies upon the being your talking to. Some like flattery others do not

As to them being a reliable source of knowledge this often varies upon who your talking to. But usually and most of the time these are very old and ancient creatures who could posses a lot of knowledge gathered over decades and decades. Sp i'm sure they would know a great deal.

[Tvtyrant]

About learning in a day, that's not necessary. Sacrifices can be repeated in different days as long as required.






The problem is that a level 2-3 commoner that leads a cult in an isolated community is, at least initially, helpless in front of a fiend.
The only things that binds it to serve is the power of the sacrifice.




A low level character can summon only fiends using the Sacrifice rules.

I would say the fiend could easily acquire the caster a guide to spell casting. They hand you a spellbook and some entry teachings to Evil Magic. They would be most likely to teach them how to perform the sacrificial rituals for something much bigger that makes the cultist into a Warlock.

"Here is how to bind my boss Gerald the Erienyes, she can teach you how to summon Tom, Pit Fiend head of Accounting. He will trade you magical powers for your soul!!!!"

My head canon is the sacrifice rules get learned by cults that way. Someone accidentally binds something small, then progressively gets taught the rules for bigger and better sacrifices. Eventually they wish for a +5 cursed sword that kills off their civilization.

[Psyren]

Guys, Sacrifice rules allow for Planar ALLY , not for Planar Binding.

That is relevant to your questions, because Planar Ally doesn't actually let you choose what you get. You can request an outsider, but the deity or power you're sacrificing to ultimately chooses. So it really depends on whether they want you to learn X spell, lore, etc.

Also, BoVD states that the list of rewards on the table is "a starting point" but that each evil deity has their own preferences for both sacrifices and rewards.