How to speed up combat?

[jaappleton]

My group of 5, of which I am a player, has always been an online group, we're all scattered around the country.

I find that combat can take awhile. Like 90 minutes per fight sometimes. And during those 90 minutes, its often hard for some players (myself included) to really stay engaged for those 90 minutes, especially while its not our turn.

We play theatre of the mind combat.

I try to be quick with my turns. "Which of these bandits looks the most hurt? Alrighty, I'd like to approach them and-" Or "How many of them can I get with fireball? And how many can I get if I include the Fighter? (Sorry dude)"

However, combat can still take quite awhile.

Anyone have any advice?

Obviously, posting Initiative in Roll20 so everyone knows when they're up. Of course.

But more for like.... What about cutting enemy HP down, but making them hit harder? Combat is fast and deadly? Would that be a route to go?

Any ideas, please.

[OldTrees1]

In 5E the PCs are really hard to kill. Increasing the offense and decreasing the defense is a viable approach.


I also suggest the players roll attack and damage at the same time. This technique saves more time than it sounds and for some groups can be combined with prerolling.

Oh and having fewer enemies helps a lot.

[ngilop]

wowzer. 90 minutes per fight?

I get the DM to put a timer up and if you cannot get your turn done in 90 seconds. You lose your round of actions.

I honestly cannot give anymore help than that without being there to experience it, but I am coming up extremely short on figuring out how the players are taking 6 minutes per round to do their turn.

Especially online where you have virtual dice so the guy only have 1 of each dice issue is non-existant.

[Amnestic]

How many rounds in the 90 minutes? 'cos 90 minutes for a 20 round combat, pretty damn good. 90 minutes for a 3 round combat, less so.

[RogueJK]

We play theatre of the mind combat.

I try to be quick with my turns. "Which of these bandits looks the most hurt? Alrighty, I'd like to approach them and-" Or "How many of them can I get with fireball? And how many can I get if I include the Fighter? (Sorry dude)"

That could be a big part of the issue there. If every player is having to ask multiple questions just to reorient themselves to the tactical situation before every one of their turns, and only then be able to think about and decide on what they're doing, that's going to drastically slow down combat.

Since you're already using Roll 20, I would strongly consider switching to virtual tabletop with maps and counters, at least for battles. That way, everyone can see at a glance what the situations is, and monitor how it's changing throughout everyone else's turns, and can therefore decide before their turn comes up what they will do/if that spell will hit allies/etc..



I also suggest the players roll attack and damage at the same time.

This will also help. If it hits, you've already rolled damage. If it doesn't hit, the extra damage dice don't matter.

[jaappleton]

That could be a big part of the issue there. If every player is having to ask multiple questions just to reorient themselves to the tactical situation before every one of their turns, and only then be able to think about and decide on what they're doing, that's going to drastically slow down combat.

Since you're already using Roll 20, I would strongly consider switching to virtual tabletop with maps and counters, at least for battles. That way, everyone can see at a glance what the situations is, and monitor how it's changing throughout everyone else's turns, and can therefore decide before their turn comes up what they will do/if that spell will hit allies/etc..



This will also help. If it hits, you've already rolled damage. If it doesn't hit, the extra damage dice don't matter.

We have a Roll20 and D&D Beyond extension called Beyond20 in our browsers. I don't technically know how it works, but when installed it puts a button next to everything we can roll on our character sheets in D&D Beyond which will automatically roll it with all appropriate modifiers and bonuses in Roll20. Its not absolutely perfect but its really good, I recommend it. (Some stuff can't be helped, like the secondary effect of Booming Blade, because it has no way of knowing when an enemy moves. But aside from little super minor issues like that, we love it). So it rolls the attack roll and damage roll at once for our attacks.

I really like your suggestion about moving out of theatre of the mind. By having a much more visual representation on screen, it can keep people engaged and nobody would have to ask what's happening when their turn comes around.

[Dork_Forge]

This is probably a sum of its parts kind of thing but moving to a tabletop instead of TotM is a huge way to speed things up, TotM is convenient for prep but pretty terrible for actual combat especially if your combats are leaning on the longer times and everyone is forgetting positioning as a result.

Everyone should have a go to thing to do, if they can't think of what to do within a reasonable time, default to their go to.

I have to assume that the big delay is spell casters not knowing what spells to cast for the most part? Encourage people to actually think between turns instead of on their turn (having to listen to everything happening just to be updated on positioning and enemy totals is probably acting as a detractor of this).

Are people taking time to access their character sheets? Is rolling initiative itself a disproportionate slow down?

What about encounter composition, is your DM using a lot of individual monsters whilst also being slow at mananging a large number of monsters?

[jaappleton]

This is probably a sum of its parts kind of thing but moving to a tabletop instead of TotM is a huge way to speed things up, TotM is convenient for prep but pretty terrible for actual combat especially if your combats are leaning on the longer times and everyone is forgetting positioning as a result.

Everyone should have a go to thing to do, if they can't think of what to do within a reasonable time, default to their go to.

I have to assume that the big delay is spell casters not knowing what spells to cast for the most part? Encourage people to actually think between turns instead of on their turn (having to listen to everything happening just to be updated on positioning and enemy totals is probably acting as a detractor of this).

Are people taking time to access their character sheets? Is rolling initiative itself a disproportionate slow down?

What about encounter composition, is your DM using a lot of individual monsters whilst also being slow at mananging a large number of monsters?

DM isn't slow at all. He's fairly quick to it.

I think a big issue is some characters spacing out in between their turns (And we're all at our computers, with things taking so long, I'm not going to blame them one bit for wanting something to occupy their time during TotM combat)

So when its their turn, a few players want the whole scenario of what happened laid out. "Well how many are around me? And anyone have less than 50% health? What about-"
You get the idea. Again, when its 15-20 minutes until your next turn, I understand why fellow players are spacing out from time to time.

Moving to a grid base, even just a loose tactical game, should still give a great visual representation to keep everyone engaged. Even just noticing tokens being moved around the map, it should be enough to maintain peoples attention overall, even if not 100% of the time.

[SiCK_Boy]

If the DM is afraid of a grid, even just having a visual representation without a grid would still help a lot with situating players vs enemies general positions.

[RogueJK]

Yeah, if he doesn't want to craft custom maps, there are pregen ones he can use, or even just counters on a "white room" grid can be helpful.

[Dark.Revenant]

As said before, use a VTT. Roll attack and damage at the same time.

I'll add: Skip turn if the player does not state what they're doing within a minute. But don't use a timer for it; the DM should just say "pick something or we're skipping your turn" when it's clearly taking too long; some people get anxiety when they see a clock ticking.

Also, it's okay if a turn takes a long time to resolve; if you cast Prismatic Spray on a group of bad guys, one of them uses Counterspell, your ally uses Counterspell on the them in return, and then every target rolls saves while you roll a bucket of d8s, you figure out what each effect is for each target, and one guy casts Absorb Elements while this is all going on and the damage (and other effects) get tallied... it can take a while.

What sucks is if a 6-minute turn boils down to "I stand there and attack with my sword." It's optimal (and just polite) to just roll your attacks and damage outright as soon as the turn begins, then describe what you're doing while the DM tallies the effects. It keeps the action going and takes less than a minute even if you're rolling 4+ attacks.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Moving to a grid base, even just a loose tactical game, should still give a great visual representation to keep everyone engaged. Even just noticing tokens being moved around the map, it should be enough to maintain peoples attention overall, even if not 100% of the time.
Using Roll20, it's also easy to make health bars, status effects, and so on visible to all players. That'll help too. Unfortunately, it does put a not-insignificant amount of extra prep work on the DM.

(Pro tip: be careful about using nice art. You'll start out going "ooh, this battle map is almost perfect, now I don't have to figure out where all everything in the tavern is," or "this guy is a big boss, let's find him a fancy token," only to find yourself two months later spending hours sweating over photoshop)

[Dork_Forge]

DM isn't slow at all. He's fairly quick to it.

I think a big issue is some characters spacing out in between their turns (And we're all at our computers, with things taking so long, I'm not going to blame them one bit for wanting something to occupy their time during TotM combat)

So when its their turn, a few players want the whole scenario of what happened laid out. "Well how many are around me? And anyone have less than 50% health? What about-"
You get the idea. Again, when its 15-20 minutes until your next turn, I understand why fellow players are spacing out from time to time.

Moving to a grid base, even just a loose tactical game, should still give a great visual representation to keep everyone engaged. Even just noticing tokens being moved around the map, it should be enough to maintain peoples attention overall, even if not 100% of the time.

Wait is the 15-20 minute gap not in large part because of this?

If that's how long it is before people start losing interest and need repeats then there's something else seriously wrong. How many people are in the party?

[da newt]

A simple map will help everyone visualize the situation.

The DM can make a HUGE impact on decision times by telling everyone they have 30 seconds to state their action each round - if they can't make a decision, then they DODGE. This keeps everyone engaged and really ramps up the emotion of combat / fog of war / stress ...

The computer stuff can be a real PITA, so helping everyone figure out how to do that efficiently helps too.

BTW - how many PCs and how many bad guys for an average encounter? One of my Roll20 games includes 8 or 9 PCs, 1 or 2 NPCs and often has more enemies than party members for a given battle, so a round of combat takes 15 minutes even if everyone is on top of their game. It can be frustrating. (especially if some of the PCs like to 'multitask' between turns ...)

[jaappleton]

There are give players, myself included.

[MaxWilson]

My group of 5, of which I am a player, has always been an online group, we're all scattered around the country.

I find that combat can take awhile. Like 90 minutes per fight sometimes. And during those 90 minutes, its often hard for some players (myself included) to really stay engaged for those 90 minutes, especially while its not our turn.

...Anyone have any advice?

Switch to a different initiative system. PHB initiative is inevitably boring because it absolutely requires players to spend 80%+ of their time at the table not interacting with anybody, especially the DM, because it's not their turn. Try some variant on "everybody declares, then everybody acts." It doesn't necessarily speed up the combat, as measured by clock time, so much as it eliminates dead time where you're not doing anything. Sometimes you think you've only been in combat for fifteen minutes but you look up at the clock and realize it's been an hour, you just didn't notice because you were so busy consulting with other players and flipping through the books and your character sheet looking for a solution.


DM isn't slow at all. He's fairly quick to it.

I think a big issue is some characters spacing out in between their turns (And we're all at our computers, with things taking so long, I'm not going to blame them one bit for wanting something to occupy their time during TotM combat)

So when its their turn, a few players want the whole scenario of what happened laid out. "Well how many are around me? And anyone have less than 50% health? What about-"
You get the idea. Again, when its 15-20 minutes until your next turn, I understand why fellow players are spacing out from time to time.

Moving to a grid base, even just a loose tactical game, should still give a great visual representation to keep everyone engaged. Even just noticing tokens being moved around the map, it should be enough to maintain peoples attention overall, even if not 100% of the time.

Case in point: this is a redundancy created by requiring players to make their decisions separately, on different turns. If everybody is declaring (including monsters), and then acting in some order the DM views as sensible (e.g. an orc charging across a room to attack a ranger aiming an arrow at him is likely to take at least one arrow to the chest before he arrives), you don't need to repeat all of this info separately to every player. All the decisions happen simultaneously, so no one mentally checks out unless one player is just taking waaaaay too long to make his decision after everyone else is ready, in which case social pressures to hurry up come to bear just like in every other game.

[Osuniev]

I found some of the advice here helped me a lot, probably cutting a 3rd of the time in my fights. If you like it, recommend it to your DM ? Not everyone likes it, and the tone is pretty abrasive, but I find this advice sound :

Angy GM : How to Manage Combat (https://theangrygm.com/manage-combat-like-a-dolphin/)

The main advice : at the start of your turn, you say what you're doing. If you don't, you lose your turn. NO "1 min timer", not 6 seconds. It seems harsh at first. THe thing is, if everyone does it, you don't space out anymore since your turns are now 90 seconds apart instead of 20 min. It becomes harder to figure out the OPTIMAL move, but the tension of the fight is improved, and it makes it even sweeter when you do figure out the optimal move.

My players hated it the first time, but now they all prefer it (I have 6 to 7 PCs, so short rounds are appreciated by everyone).

It IS harder to implement online, but it's possible.

[Kurt Kurageous]

Another spit into the wind...what I do to speed up combat:

1. Sorry, spellcasters ARE the problem. Session zero, only HALF the party can cast. Beastmaster ranger doesn't count as a caster.
2. As a DM, have an excel sheet filled with random d20 rolls. It is SOOO much faster to generate init, resolve multiattacks. The knock on effect is the "waiting around to die" part of the run for the players is short, meaning more pressure to know their next move.
3. As a DM, have your players DCs, saves, etc handy. Adjudicate monster saves saves quickly using the preprinted d20s.
4. As a DM, after the second attack, I TELL the party the monster AC. That way they dont have to ask, "does a 13 hit?" anymore.
5. As a DM, use side initiative, average dexmod is the plus. Yes, this hurts some classes that get initiative bonuses. If you don't have one, use side.
6. As a player, use a dice cup with your d20 AND damage dice together.
7. As a player, pick a first and second option when its not your turn. And live with the fact that you are not going to optimize in combat. Otherwise, the game would be, "you win, but lose ( ) resources." You really want to play that game?
8. As a player, put yer dang phone away (unless you are using an app to track sheet stuff or look up spells. I will NOT be a part of your livestream blog, a diversion from your ongoing chat with your SI, or wait a single moment for you to finish up the game you're playing.

[Osuniev]

A Otherwise, the game would be, "you win, but lose ( ) resources." You really want to play that game?

... Yeah ? I mean most encounters in DnD are designed that way. The tension for most fights is "how much ressources will you have spent", until the final encounter before a long rest (where those spent resources will matter).


(Not disagreeing with the rest of your post, this sentence just surprised me).

[MaxWilson]

... Yeah ? I mean most encounters in DnD are designed that way. The tension for most fights is "how much ressources will you have spent", until the final encounter before a long rest (where those spent resources will matter).

I'm not sure but I believe the point Kurt is making is not about resource loss, but decision making--as if the DM were automatically applying the optimal decision to each character in the combat and simply narrating the result. I think the point being made here is that making decisions under pressure is more fun than solving for the optimal decision.

I'm not sure there actually is an optimal decision, nor that the process of searching for an optimal decision is boring, but I'm pretty sure that Kurt isn't criticizing attrition-based tension.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

We tried mostly ditching initiative. Basically everyone who could attack without moving got the right to go first and simultaneous with everyone else in the same situation. Everyone else rolled initiative that round.

It worked pretty well through the first 2 tiers and added a bit of urgency (and I thought realism) to the combat. It started to break down in tier 3 with lair actions, legendary actions, and more complex spells, so we went away from it.

As a DM the only other suggestion I have is to use the average damage for most small to med encounters/ rolls. Only if it's a big one or a player is near death when it matters do I roll.

Good luck

[EggKookoo]

Things I do...

I pre-roll monster initiative for planned encounters. I use a laptop for my "DM screen" and for each planned encounter I create a spreadsheet with the PCs and NPCs slotted in. I assume average init rolls for the PCs (and in fact we tend to just go with those at the players' request). The spreadsheet also has each PC and NPC AC, and I used to list PC HP but now I just go with the NPCs' HP. I'll sort the spreadsheet descending by initiative.

Not rolling initiative but just going with the initiative score rule variant makes the start of combat a snap. I will let a player roll init if desired but so far my players are happy with this arrangement.

I use minis but we don't use a grid. Instead, we just put the minis on the table where we want them to be. I have a couple of lengths of twine, one scaled to 30 feet and one to 60 feet, with knots at roughly the 5-foot points (that's harder to get right than it might seem). Distances are handled with the twine, which has the benefit of freeing us up from grid-based range/area/radius issues.

I often have mook-class enemies give up when their health is low, rather than fight it out to the last HP. Enemies with more of a stake in the outcome are more likely to fight to the death.

We can usually get 3 good encounters into a 3-hour session (sometimes more), with room in between for all the other things the PCs can do (explore, socialize, investigate, etc.).

[Tanarii]

5 players, 90 mins, that's like ... a 18 round combat?

Seriously it shouldn't take more than a minute to declare and resolve actions in 5e. Especially in theatre of the mind. Easy 3 round combats can be done in 5 minutes with that few players in TotM. Even a Deadly set piece battle mat fight with 8-10 rounds shouldn't take more than 45-60.

If it's taking that long, something funky is going on. It's not a matter of how to speed up in terms of general advice, it's a matter of identifying specifically your group is doing wrong. Is is making a decision on what to do? Very complicated resolution? DM taking forever?


This is probably a sum of its parts kind of thing but moving to a tabletop instead of TotM is a huge way to speed things up, TotM is convenient for prep but pretty terrible for actual combat especially if your combats are leaning on the longer times and everyone is forgetting positioning as a result.
Couldn't disagree more. TotM is hugely faster.

What moving to battle mat play does is reduce player confusion about the situation. But it's much slower in execution.


I think a big issue is some characters spacing out in between their turns (And we're all at our computers, with things taking so long, I'm not going to blame them one bit for wanting something to occupy their time during TotM combat)

Oh yeah. This is definitely your number one problem.

Computer based isn't the same thing as in person table top at all. Everyone needs to be on their A game in anything computer multiplayer. That holds true in MMOs, where everything is automated for you, people still take forever, space out, and don't pay attention properly. If you're not doing it video chat, that's probably the number one improvement you could make. Visually seeing others will massively improve responsiveness, more than anything else can.

At the very least it'll show you how horrifically distracted people are while they're playing by computer, in comparison to tabletop. :smallamused:

[HappyDaze]

My solution has been to drop D&D and go with other games that go faster. Savage Worlds and Torg Eternity are both much faster in play.

[Dork_Forge]

Couldn't disagree more. TotM is hugely faster.

What moving to battle mat play does is reduce player confusion about the situation. But it's much slower in execution.


Because of moving tokens around? I've done TotM quite a few times with DMs that primarly play that way, and it's always been slower ime than Roll20, purely because of the back and forth question and answer that inevitibly takes place each combat (and usually the handwaving of distances to go along with it).

[Tanarii]

Because of moving tokens around? I've done TotM quite a few times with DMs that primarly play that way, and it's always been slower ime than Roll20, purely because of the back and forth question and answer that inevitibly takes place each combat (and usually the handwaving of distances to go along with it).
Let's be clear here ... are you talking about Theatre of the Mind in person, or over voice chat? If the latter, with video or without?

Personally, I've yet to see anything slower than VTT based D&D.

[Dork_Forge]

Let's be clear here ... are you talking about Theatre of the Mind in person, or over voice chat?

Voice/video chat, is there a meaningful difference?

[Tanarii]

Voice/video chat, is there a meaningful difference?
Yes.
In person is better and faster than video chat is faster and better than voice chat.

Holds just as true in D&D as it does in the work place.

[HappyDaze]

Because of moving tokens around? I've done TotM quite a few times with DMs that primarly play that way, and it's always been slower ime than Roll20, purely because of the back and forth question and answer that inevitibly takes place each combat (and usually the handwaving of distances to go along with it).

The trick with TotM is to not get hung up on details. If you or your players absolutely have to have precise details (and ask tons of questions to nail them down), then go with a battlemap. With TotM, the GM and players both have to have a shared control over the immediate narrative. If the DM envisioned the five orcs as approaching the PCs in a wide semi-circle and a player says "I use burning hands to torch them" then a good response is "OK, you can catch two of them" and move on. It's not time for either side to argue about details.

[Dork_Forge]

Yes.
In person is better and faster than video chat is faster and better than voice chat.

Holds just as true in D&D as it does in the work place.

I can see how that's true in D&D in general (cross talk can be a real problem at times with some groups), but the TotM issue I always saw was people waiting their turn, then asking questions about what creature was closest etc. If not crosstalk I'm not really sure what the benefit would be.





The trick with TotM is to not get hung up on details. If you or your players absolutely have to have precise details (and ask tons of questions to nail them down), then go with a battlemap. With TotM, the GM and players both have to have a shared control over the immediate narrative. If the DM envisioned the five orcs as approaching the PCs in a wide semi-circle and a player says "I use burning hands to torch them" then a good response is "OK, you can catch two of them" and move on. It's not time for either side to argue about details.

I know that comes part an parcel and I've never been one to, or seen for that matter, arguing about TotM details, it's the questions and answers themselves that lead to uncertainty. Meanwhile when I run on a battlemap the players just measure things out whilst waiting for their turn and the slow down then just comes from any rules uncertainty they might have.

Side note: I prefer the tactical aspect of being able to see the field and maneuver, I personally feel like if I played a character with a high speed for example, it'd just be hand waved and wouldn't actually matter much in TotM.

[Asisreo1]

90 minutes?! My word...

ToTM can be ran faster than combat but it requires several things.

Players need to know their abilities. The DM needs to know the rules and abilities of their NPC's. The combat cannot be tactical.

If the players don't know how their abilities work, questions that slow play are guaranteed. Have them read their abilities before combat even begins. It really helps when they do so during level up and get a chance to use these abilities nearly immediately instead of a week or 2 later. They also need to be paying attention outside their turn.

As a DM, you're the arbiter of rules and you need to be very familiar with them. If someone plans to hide, the DM needs to know how they'll adjudicate that. And if you have monsters with unique abilities, you need to know how they work beforehand and understand which situation the monster will use them in.

Tactical Combats are meant to be played with a grid. If you're not on a grid, you need to remove such precise tactics. If positioning can mean the difference between success and failure, just use a grid.

When a player wants to attack, they shouldn't ask "Are they in my reach? Are they in cover? Do they look bloodied?" They should either know this, or the combat doesn't require enough scrutiny to matter. They should say "I attack the Fire elemental twice then use my last attack on the Fire Giant."

A sample turn would look like this:

DM: The Balor is flying above the battlefield. An intense gaze in his eyes is pointed at the wizard.

Wizard: I cast Hold Monster on the Balor.

DM: *Rolls Dice* The Balor resists your attempts at holding him. He begins to dive towards the wizard. Barbarian, its your turn.

[Tanarii]

I can see how that's true in D&D in general (cross talk can be a real problem at times with some groups), but the TotM issue I always saw was people waiting their turn, then asking questions about what creature was closest etc. If not crosstalk I'm not really sure what the benefit would be.

I know that comes part an parcel and I've never been one to, or seen for that matter, arguing about TotM details, it's the questions and answers themselves that lead to uncertainty. Meanwhile when I run on a battlemap the players just measure things out whilst waiting for their turn and the slow down then just comes from any rules uncertainty they might have.

Side note: I prefer the tactical aspect of being able to see the field and maneuver, I personally feel like if I played a character with a high speed for example, it'd just be hand waved and wouldn't actually matter much in TotM.


Yes, totm leads to less player certainty of the situation. And IMX players very strongly have a preference for said clarity, especially once they've experienced both totm and battle mat combat.

But totm combat still runs faster than battle mat combat, with players measuring and running multiple tactical options before committing to an action. And not starting until their turn, because they need to see the current situation first. Which is what invariably happens with battle mats. Having a chess board makes players play like chess players. Slowly and considering all tactical options.

It also requires a lot more set up time for battle mat play. I've run both extensively in 5e with loads of different players, and a totm battles are always somewhat faster than battle mat battles. If only because of the saved setup time.

But that's beside the point. The real culprit here is online play.

[KorvinStarmast]

As said before, use a VTT. Roll attack and damage at the same time.

I'll add: Skip turn if the player does not state what they're doing within a minute. But don't use a timer for it; the DM should just say "pick something or we're skipping your turn" when it's clearly taking too long; some people get anxiety when they see a clock ticking.


The DM can make a HUGE impact on decision times by telling everyone they have 30 seconds to state their action each round - if they can't make a decision, then they DODGE. This keeps everyone engaged and really ramps up the emotion of combat / fog of war / stress ...



1. Sorry, spellcasters ARE the problem. Session zero, only HALF the party can cast. Beastmaster ranger doesn't count as a caster.

3. As a DM, have your players DCs, saves, etc handy. Adjudicate monster saves saves quickly using the preprinted d20s.
4. As a DM, after the second attack, I TELL the party the monster AC. That way they dont have to ask, "does a 13 hit?" anymore.

6. As a player, use a dice cup with your d20 AND damage dice together.
7. As a player, pick a first and second option when its not your turn. And live with the fact that you are not going to optimize in combat.

8. As a player, put yer dang phone away Agree, and that's how I like to do it.

Having a chess board makes players play like chess players. Slowly and considering all tactical options.
True: I still have them on the clock: make up your mind, or you dodge.

But that's beside the point. The real culprit here is online play. Agree.

[MrStabby]

Yes.
In person is better and faster than video chat is faster and better than voice chat.

Holds just as true in D&D as it does in the work place.
...is better and faster than play by post.


A lot of reasonable suggestions here - I would fall into the using the battlemat camp though. I think clarity of communications will improve. I also think it will help stop people zoning out between turns as people have something in front of them to engage with. There is no loss of time having to redescribe the scene over and over... including the bits that haven't changed.

That said, work out what your biggest delays are and focus on those.

One thing in the OP that is a bad, bad idea is to reduce HP. This totally screws the balance of the game. Suddenly damage becomes the optimal course of action every time. Why use hypnotic pattern to disable enemies if you could just fireball them and make them dead instead? Sure it's a bit extreme as an example but playing with HP does change the balance between playstyles. Tougher enemies favour grappling and controll effects, lower HP favours nova builds to exploit the low HP.

[Amdy_vill]

My group of 5, of which I am a player, has always been an online group, we're all scattered around the country.

I find that combat can take awhile. Like 90 minutes per fight sometimes. And during those 90 minutes, its often hard for some players (myself included) to really stay engaged for those 90 minutes, especially while its not our turn.

We play theatre of the mind combat.

I try to be quick with my turns. "Which of these bandits looks the most hurt? Alrighty, I'd like to approach them and-" Or "How many of them can I get with fireball? And how many can I get if I include the Fighter? (Sorry dude)"

However, combat can still take quite awhile.

Anyone have any advice?

Obviously, posting Initiative in Roll20 so everyone knows when they're up. Of course.

But more for like.... What about cutting enemy HP down, but making them hit harder? Combat is fast and deadly? Would that be a route to go?

Any ideas, please.

one talk to your party about it and see how thay feel.

two if talk to the dm brings up the mob combat rules in the dmg. I use them and they speed up combat

three talk to your dm about other things. really players have little effect on combat time unless they are new or don't understand their class well.

some examples of things i do are

1. I have stolen the 4e minion rule. if a monster is a minion and you hit it, it dies.
minions are any creature 3 cr bellow the group that is just a hitpoint shield.

2. reduce the number of combats. I generally aim for 1 combat every 2 games.

3. a fight does not have to be far. often I run fights focused on establishing how powerful my players have become. 1 in 5 fights are heavily stacked in the players favor to give them a nice power fantisy

4. encounters don't have to end in fights. this a massive section in the dmg about social encounters and it has kinda expanded in tashas. personly I don't like tashas expansion because it is bad but it could help.

[Witty Username]

Abstracting initiative can help out for low risk combats, a few sessions ago for my group I ran a fight with a pair of gnolls, we didn't even roll initiative because the combat wasn't going to be longer than a round or two anyway.
A more radical idea I have heard and may try, forgo initiative for attack/skill rolls, in essence, if everyone is making attack rolls, use the attack rolls for initiative, if some one is casting a spell maybe an arcana check or something, and resolve the actions in descending order.

Also, having monsters run if the battle is hopeless can cut some time, or at least change pace if the party is into chase sequences. Surrender and negotiation can have a similar effect.

[Hytheter]

If the DM envisioned the five orcs as approaching the PCs in a wide semi-circle and a player says "I use burning hands to torch them" then a good response is "OK, you can catch two of them" and move on. It's not time for either side to argue about details.

Few players are just going to cast Burning Hands straight up without first establishing how many targets they can hit. The far more likely conversation is: "How many orcs can I hit with burning hands." "Let's say two." "What if I move first?" "They're kind of circling you so you can't get a better angle." "Ok. What about Fireball?"



But totm combat still runs faster than battle mat combat, with players measuring and running multiple tactical options before committing to an action. And not starting until their turn, because they need to see the current situation first. Which is what invariably happens with battle mats. Having a chess board makes players play like chess players. Slowly and considering all tactical options.

In my experience TotM plays out basically the same way, except instead of being able to look at the chessboard they have to ask the DM to describe it to them.

[Tangleweed]

I have some advice. Feel free do disregard.

- I like group rounds. All players go together. Describe what they do and roll at the same time. Is quite fast and also makes it easier for the players to narrate their character doing awesome team tactics.
- While the players are telling me what they are doing, describing it and rolling dice, I roll dice for the opponents. So, once the players are done I can quickly narrate back what the opposition is doing.
- I dont track HP for most monsters. Most of them die after one hit anyway. If a monster is hit by a weak damage roll, they will die after the next resonable damaging hit. I do however track HP for larger bosses or cooler monsters like dragon, owlbears and such. As the PCs level up, what some stuff that used to be worthy of tracking HP for is no longer sturdy enough.
- once the battle is onesided enough I just summarize. Like "You surround the last three goblins and kill them of without further problem". Same here, at what point a battle is "over" depends on party level, HP, monster and such.

- I have not seen a need to time the players round, but I have not really had players that took an unreasonable time. We tend to try to lean in on the stressful feeling of combat and pausing to calculate positions and stuff would seem sort of strange.

Thats it. Thats all I got.

[Bobthewizard]

This has been said on here already but I like having all the players go at the same time in online or play by post games.

For the first round, DM rolls initiative for everyone with one roll for the NPCs. Players who beat the NPCs can go and everyone else waits. In future rounds everyone goes at once.

Players can game this a little bit but that's ok. Healing word always pops someone up who then gets to go, the fighter can wait until hypnotic pattern is cast before rushing in. Players can even discuss things with each other before posting their turns. I think this gaming-the-system is a good thing as it gets everyone more interested in the other players' turns.

Once everyone is done, the DM summarizes the round and resolves the NPC actions. Then everyone goes again.

For theater of the mind, players need to trust that the DM will use their declared action as best they can. If you say you are attacking the nearest orc but Fred already killed it, the DM automatically moves the attack to another one.

[MaxWilson]

- I dont track HP for most monsters. Most of them die after one hit anyway. If a monster is hit by a weak damage roll, they will die after the next resonable damaging hit. I do however track HP for larger bosses or cooler monsters like dragon, owlbears and such. As the PCs level up, what some stuff that used to be worthy of tracking HP for is no longer sturdy enough.


I track damage instead of HP. When damage exceeds HP, the monster dies. Sometimes I don't bother to do the math because the damage is obviously enough to kill it. E.g. if a Githyanki Warrior was at 17+15 damage before from two Sharpshooter hits and then took 24 damage from a Lightning Bolt, I don't even bother adding them up--it's obviously over 49 HP so it's dying and I cross that Githyanki out. (Normally adding three numbers is not difficult but when my brain is already busy running a combat it gets harder.)

Also, this often means that at even if there are a dozen monsters in play, I am only having to track damage for one of them instead of HP for a dozen, because PCs often focus fire.

[HappyDaze]

Few players are just going to cast Burning Hands straight up without first establishing how many targets they can hit. The far more likely conversation is: "How many orcs can I hit with burning hands." "Let's say two." "What if I move first?" "They're kind of circling you so you can't get a better angle." "Ok. What about Fireball?"


You have to train them not to do crap like that. If they have to ask four questions (and presumably listen to the answers) before taking an action, they are contributing to slowing combat considerably.

[Vogie]

You need a tabletop. Either virtual or a physical table. Hell, when the quarentine started, my group played over Zoom with a camera pointed at one of my playmats. I used Scrabble tiles to better designate who was who in my group of 5 before I got a Roll20 sub.

Even if your DM uses the EXACT SAME map every single time, it's better than TotM with a large group of players. Simply joke that you take the cue from Final Fantasy or Pokemon.

Somethings I've included to speed things along:

representing bloodied creatures, a la 4th edition, with a red dot.
standardizing what things look like via the tokenstamper (http://rolladvantage.com/tokenstamp/)
PCs and allied PCs are circles
hostile or unknown creatures are hexagons
potential cover is represented by rounded triangles

[Tanarii]

In my experience TotM plays out basically the same way, except instead of being able to look at the chessboard they have to ask the DM to describe it to them.


You have to train them not to do crap like that. If they have to ask four questions (and presumably listen to the answers) before taking an action, they are contributing to slowing combat considerably.

It's definitely on the DM too. If you don't have experience with TotM, or you're out of practice (which I was) it's very hard. It's also very hard as soon as you get into a very tactically complex battle.

Even after I brought back battle mats in 5e, I still used TotM for Easy and many Medium combats, especially random encounters with one type of enemy. Even then I might sketch something quickly on a (handheld) whiteboard at the start of combat to give a quick visual representation of the area. I tended to use a battle mat for Hard or Deadly set piece combat encounters in a tactically complex terrain. Mostly because of player preference, not because it's critical to do so.

OTOH we're talking about online play here. Keeping players attention and maintaining pacing is a skill that works pretty well IRL with knowledge of the necessary skills and techniques (https://theangrygm.com/manage-combat-like-a-dolphin/) and practice. But they've also got the DM to look at and keep their attention, and no distractions (unless you allow phones / laptops at the table). But if you're online, something to keep the players attention visually is a very good idea. Video chat as opposed to audio only at a minimum, but that's not the same as in person. It's probably a good idea to give them a basic map and tokens layout.

[J-H]

Here's what I put together for my party:



1) Decide what you are going to do before your turn starts. When you're prompted for it being your turn, unless you're not clear about the map/situation, you should be able to immediately say "My character does X and Y." This includes where you're going on the map. If it helps, you may want to keep a pencil and scratch paper around to jot down the map square while you pre-decide during someone else's turn.

2) Know what your class abilities do. Copy a summary onto your character sheet or onto a 3x5 card. If you're not sure how your class ability works or what it does, look it up before your turn.

3) Same for spells. Have the text of the spell pulled up, looked up, etc. before your turn starts.

4) If you have a regular attack routine you're running, make sure you have a spot on your character sheet or a notecard summarizing it. Unless you're hit by a buff/debuff, you should not need to re-figure what dice you will need to roll when your turn comes.

5) If you're using the Discord bot roller instead of physical dice, and you're on a computer, you may want to create a text file and pre-type your attack, damage, etc. rolls out, so that you can copy/paste them over instead of manually retyping them. If you roll with advantage, the dice roller also supports rolling 2d20 and displaying both results, although you then have to manually add your +modifier on.

6) If you're rolling physical dice, pick your dice out before your turn, and then roll damage at the same time as your attack roll. You can also pick out different dice colors for different damage types, if applicable - this is what I do for multi-damage attacks. If you have multiple attacks to roll and not enough same-colored dice, try pairing dice colors (ie, purple & red are for the first attack, green and black for the second attack). This is one I need to work on doing more, although you may have noticed me using the Discord roller for spells dealing large #s of dice already.

7) Consider putting your list of spells, limited-use abilities (such as Second Wind, stunning fist or channel divinity), and magical items that can be triggered (wands, scrolls, etc.) on a separate page. This may make them easier to consider versus cramming them into three different parts of the front page of your character sheet in small print. If it has a limited use or limited use per day and produces a magical effect, then it's kind of like a spell, and should be placed there for consideration on turns when you're not just attacking, or for review for using before you rest (Second Wind).
I don't think a single spell scroll has been used the entire game, and the only consumables I recall seeing used are oil and healing potions.

If 5 players save an average of 15 seconds per player turn, that's 1.25 minutes per combat round, not counting improvements the DM makes to his turn. Over just 20 rounds of combat in a session, that's 25 minutes for the entire party.

[Throne12]

So I'm a DM I can only tell you how I handel my games.

So first is Initiative. I handel it in two different ways. First way is I ask them ok what are yall doing letting them go when ever then the enemy takes it turn at the end. The second way I use most when I'm dealing with 2 or more enemy's I have the party roll Initiative among themselfs then I have a enemy take a turn in between each players turn.

So next is handling players during there turns. I have a player that tends to take a long time on his turn. He has to look at every spell and ability he has to make up his mind and he's doing this right when I tell him it his turn. Now he gotten better. So what i did was. I wait for 30 seconds then I hold my hand up and count down from 5 to 1. If he don't do something then I say his character takes the dodge action and I move on. 30sec is more then enough time to take a turn.

So next up is giving players meta knowledge. I really don't like keeping a monsters AC from the players. If they are paying attention they can try and work it out anyway. So let's just cut to the chase. They can roll add up and tell me if they hit or not. As a side note don't hind rolls unless it a secret roll or when I do dummy roll a roll with just to make my players think something is happening.

So next thing Is stealth rolls. So I don't let my players roll or see what there stealth roll is. This keeps them in the dark about they are noticeable or not. So they are forced to act as if they think they are hidden.

Next is handling skill checks. I took this idea from WedDm. When a player wants to use a skill they can roll it with any stat they want but they must tell me how they are using that skill with that stat. Example
Investigation with Strength by tearning up a room moving things breaking open things. Now they can't make rolls unless they are trained in it or if I call or say it ok. But you can help someone even if you are not trained.

Next is just a general rule about rules. If something comes up and no one knows the ruling for the situation the DM makes a call on how he/she/them handels it. And we move along and talk about it after the game.

Now for my last one is rule of cool/ease. I'm a lazy DM and I'm excited when my players are Excited. So when a player wants to do something cool. Most of the time I just let them. Look I'm here to have fun with friends/family or soon to be friends. So let's not let things get in the way of fun and bad ass stories.

My group tends to start talking about thing not related to the game. So I have to break up conversations every now and then.

So those are the main things I focuse on as a DM. The Game with run smoother and combats faster and more exciting. If the DM has a core set rule to how he/she/them run there game. Coming from a lazy DM you need to know your limit and then get organized.



P.S. I forgot for TotM the best thing to do is just say yes.
Player1 can I hit more then one enemy's with my fireball.
DM yes you can get 3 out of the 5 enemies.
Player2 how far away am I from a enemy.
DM you can make it to the bandit with the rusty shortsword or the one with the crossbow.

When your using TotM you have to have a narrative combat. You need to stop thinking about ranges, cones, ect. And turn it into a cool fight scene. Here think back to when you where a kid play knights & dragons, cops & robbers, cowboys & Indians, jedi & sith. You didn't worry about how far your gun shoots or how far your magical abilities reach. So when using TotM in d&d you should be doing that.

P.S.S. sorry for long text.

[Hytheter]

You have to train them not to do crap like that. If they have to ask four questions (and presumably listen to the answers) before taking an action, they are contributing to slowing combat considerably.

What's the alternative? Force them to make blind decisions? It's only natural for players to want their actions to be effective, especially ones that cost limited resources like spells. If you shut down questions about what they can hit with AOE spells they're just going to stop preparing them.

[MaxWilson]

What's the alternative? Force them to make blind decisions? It's only natural for players to want their actions to be effective, especially ones that cost limited resources like spells. If you shut down questions about what they can hit with AOE spells they're just going to stop preparing them.

Well, one alternative would be to say, "I fireball ten of the bad guys" and see if the DM says "No, you can only hit four" or "only if you hit yourself and Rurien too, otherwise you can only hit six of them."

[HappyDaze]

Well, one alternative would be to say, "I fireball ten of the bad guys" and see if the DM says "No, you can only hit four" or "only if you hit yourself and Rurien too, otherwise you can only hit six of them."

Basically this. Share the narrative control a bit and trust one another. It's not competitive; both sides should give and take.

[Tanarii]

Well, one alternative would be to say, "I fireball ten of the bad guys" and see if the DM says "No, you can only hit four" or "only if you hit yourself and Rurien too, otherwise you can only hit six of them."


Basically this. Share the narrative control a bit and trust one another. It's not competitive; both sides should give and take.Uh, no. The player describes action, not results.

If players really want to know in advance what their AoEs can do, use the DMG guidelines as a default and tell it to them in advance. Although there is one that needs to be fixed first IIRC.

[MaxWilson]

Uh, no. The player describes action, not results.

The player describes intention. The DM tells whether it's possible or not. The player's intention here is to Fireball a certain number of bad guys, and the DM tells whether that's possible. If not, the player may accept a smaller number or choose a different action--but if it is possible the DM will just say "Okay" without any back-and-forth and that's why it saves time.

It's similar to a player getting thrown in prison and declaring, "I pick a fight with the biggest, baddest-looking guy here." Can the DM say, "No, everyone here looks like wimps"? He sure can. But if the player was imagining big tough prisoners, and it turns out the DM was also imagining big tough prisoners, time is saved if the player just states his assumptions as part of his action declaration. It's not about players usurping the DM's role, it's about more efficient communication as an alternative to forcing players to make blind decisions. (<<<What's the alternative? Force them to make blind decisions?>>>)


If players really want to know in advance what their AoEs can do, use the DMG guidelines as a default and tell it to them in advance. Although there is one that needs to be fixed first IIRC.

Sure, that way is a different alternative, if the DM is okay giving up control to the dice that way instead of to imagination.

[greenstone]

I have used the following.

Callout the current and the next player in initiative

GM: Conan then Bêlit. Conan, what are you doing?
(Next turn)
GL: Bêlit, then Juma. Bêlit?
(Next turn)
GM: Juma, then the ogres. Juma, your turn.

Don't let characters talk out of turn

The biggest time-sink at my table is players (well, to be honest, one player) who have long, in-depth conversations with all the other players about what their characters are going to do. I understand it, they want to make the best tacatical plans, but there has to be a limit.

So, on someone else's turn, you are limited to short sentences.

Acceptable:
Player 1: You're going to drop wall of fire on youn turn, right?
Player 2: Yup.

Not acceptable:
Player 1: Where are you going to put the wall?
Player 2: (Spends two minutes pointing to the map explaining exactly where they are going to put the wall.)

Minions use average damage
also
Trust players with the metadata

Shepherd druids, casters with elementals, etc, all use average damage rather than rolled damage.

Excellent:
GM: (To summoner) The big ogre has AC 15.
Player: OK, (rolls 8 dice all at once), 4 mephits hit, total 16 fire damage.

Not acceptable:
Player: (Rolls attack) First mephit, AC 14?
GM: Miss.
Player: (Rolls attack) Second mephit, AC 16?
GM: Hit.
Player: (Rolls damage) 5 fire. (Rolls attack) Third mephit, AC 12?
GM: (Sigh) Well if 14 missed, then 12 certainly will.
Player: Oh, yeah.
…

Don't take away digital devices

In my experience, banning smartphones actually makes the situation worse.

If players are on phones, it is because they are disconnected (possibly because other turns are taking too long). Taking the phone away doesn't make them any less disconnected; it just means they'll now talk to other people at the table, which makes things worse.

Once you speed up everyones' turns, you'll find players won't start facegramming and instabooking, because they will be engaged with the game.

Dissuade players from asking questions.

Controversy Warning: This requires the GM to act in a way that players will call "mean." You need to discuss this is "something we all do to make time at the table better for all of us."

Alternatively, you might counter with, "You're calling me mean? Well, what are you being to me when you don't listen to what I say and then force me to repeat myself?"

To make this work effectively you must foster an environment where players aren't upset that they don't get to make the "most optimal" play. The party shouldn't get "punished" because the player didn't spend 10 minutes working out the best plan of action.

I spend a lot of time at my table talking about, and actually following, the Dungeon World agenda "Be a Champion of the Characters."

Describe the situation at the start of every round. At the start of turns give a quick recap.

On their turn, if a player wants to ask questions (other than real quick, basic ones) then require them to take an Action.

If they can't remember what you said two minutes ago and they weren't payting attention to the last person's turn, that's their problem.

Important Note: If you have people who genuinely can't remember (age, capability, physical or mental reasons) then of course give them more slack.

(Start of round)
GM: Four ogres, one badly wounded, all standing next to Conan. Three goblin archers, about 60ft from the party, their morale has slipped, looks like they are close to bottling, but they are shooting at Bêlit. One goblin shaman, you are prety sure it's out of spell slots.

(On someone else's turn, an ogre and some archers were killed)

(Start of Juma's turn)
GM: Juma, three ogres hitting the barbarian, one archer and one shaman. What are you doing?
Player: How badly are the ogres wounded?
GM: That will take an Perceive Action for you to spend time studying them. Is that what you want to do?
Player: Ahh, no, I guess not. What spell is the Shaman casting?
GM: Same answer, but a Investigate Action. Do you want to do that?

Actually be mean

If a player takes more than 10 seconds to tell you what they are doing, then move to the next player. That character dodges and doesn't move.

If you ask a player whether AC 15 hits them and they take 20 seconds to look it up on a pile of paper, then the monster hits them.

If someone is on Facebook then their character automatically fails the saving throw.

These will solve the problem… by making everyone leave and ending the game. :-)

Seriously, don't do it.

I did it once and the bad feeling lasted for weeks.