3.5E Gestalt Druid//Swordsage

[HavelRockOfGold]

hi all,

So as the title stats im looking for advice and help for how to go about building a gestalt druid//swordsage havent rolled for stats yet and DM has not yet stated what level we will be starting at. The books i have access to are as follows: Arms & equipment guide(3.0), Book of erotic fanatasy, book of exalted deeds, book of vile darkness, complete adventurer, arcane, champion, mage, divine, psionic, scoundrel and warrior, dragon magic, eberron campaign setting, epic level handbook, Frostburn, Libris mortis, Magic item compendium, magic of incarnium, miniatures handbook, monster manuals 1 though 5, Oriental adventures, expanded psionics handbook, planar handbook, Playershandbook 1 &2, Races of destiny, dragon, eberron, stone and of the wild, Sandstorm, savage species, Spell compendium, Stormwrack, Tome of battle the book of nine swords, tome of magic, Unearthed Arcana and Weapons of legacy.

I know for a druid you need to take natural spell at level 6 leaving you with only 6 feats unless you either go human or take a few flaws.

Hopefully you can all provide me with advice and tips on how to make this gestalt work nicely,

kind regards

Havel

[liquidformat]

What race were you thinking and also what type of play style are you going with? I am guessing you are going for wild shape buff and then knocking some heads? are you guys getting any flaws?

Anyways adaptive style is going to be an important feat for you. Check out these handbooks they will be a decent start Druid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?439991-Being-Everything-Eggynack-s-Comprehensive-Druid-Handbook) Swordsage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?196531-Walking-the-Way-A-Swordsage-s-Handbook-Under-Construction-again), Beyond that I will hold off until after I hear more

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A Swordsage typically needs feats like Weapon Finesse, TWF, Shadow Blade, etc. but with Wild Shape you shouldn't need any of that. Adaptive Style is still useful, but not as necessary as Natural Spell. Multiattack can be useful, but typically isn't taken before 9th level considering you need Wild Shape to meet its prerequisite and you'll want Natural Spell first.

Druids actually have two feat taxes: Natural Spell at 6th, and Natural Bond at 3rd or 1st. You can apply your own effects in the most beneficial order, so the 'level -3' effect of having a Fleshraker dinosaur animal companion can be applied before Natural Bond's +3 to your effective Druid level, so you can still count your full level toward its benefits.

Definitely include 20 levels of Druid, there's no better base class to stick with. If you multiclass out of Swordsage you still advance your initiator level by half per character level, so if you go back into Swordsage later you can pick up higher level maneuvers and stances.

Your build really depends on what you want to focus more on. A Druid is good at all the things, but as a gestalt character you can be significantly better at several of those things without sacrificing your ability to be good at any of the others. Consider the following choices for fewer Swordsage levels:

Master of Many Forms 3 or 7 or 10: At 3rd level you get monstrous humanoid forms, such as Annis Hag (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hag.htm) and War Troll (MM3). At 7th you get the War Troll's regeneration, SR, and DR/adamantine when in that form. I wouldn't go for all ten levels, but if that's what you're into go for it. If going for seven or more levels Frozen Wild Shape is useful for 12-headed Cryohydra, and Assume Supernatural Ability: Eye Rays breaks the game when you assume the form of any of the various Beholders.

Warshaper 2 or 3: You don't need more than three levels of this, those levels give you some of the best benefits to be found in any class, but only when you're not in your own form.

Beastmaster 1: This gives +3 to your effective Druid level for your animal companion's benefits. You can apply this after Natural Bond, so that increases it up to your Druid level, then Beastmaster puts it over by three.

Fast Movement Ranger (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) 1 at 1st level: This is assuming you're not using the fractional BAB rules, so this effectively makes your BAB equal your character level unless you have a level where neither class's BAB increases by one point. So you would be a Druid 20// Ranger 1/ Swordage+ with full BAB.

Sacred Exorcist 1, (Cloistered) Cleric 1, Dread Necromancer 1: One or two of these are useful for gaining turn/rebuke attempts to power Divine Metamagic. With (Cloistered) Cleric you can take the Rebuke Dragons ACF in Dragon Magic, which specifically can still power divine feats. So if you're not good aligned dip (Cloistered) Cleric and Dread Necromancer, if you're good aligned dip Contemplative 1 for the Balance domain for prerequisites before (Cloistered) Cleric 1, and then Sacred Exorcist 1. Cleric domains should be Planning and Undeath, for Extend Spell and Extra Turning, and trade the free Knowledge domain for Knowledge Devotion. The best spells for DMM: Persistent include Bite of the Werebear/Weretiger and Stormrage.

Seeker of the Misty Isle 1: This gets you the Travel domain and adds the domain spells to your Druid class, but only one per spell level per day. It's fairly amazing, especially considering it can be taken without losing a Druid level on a gestalt character. Keep in mind you can't have any Cleric levels prior to gaining this if you want to apply the domain spells to Druid.


I recommend being both good aligned and having an exalted status. Cast (Extended) (Greater) Luminous Armor on yourself and your companion every day, and get a Rod of Bodily Restoration in MIC to fix the Str damage that occurs when it ends. If your companion isn't a fleshraker nor anything that has a poisonous attack (as BoED arbitrarily decided poison is evil), you can get Exalted Companion to get a Celestial version of your animal companion. Since your companion is now good-aligned it can also have an exalted status and it can take Vow of Poverty, which has no drawbacks whatsoever. It should also get enough cross-class Spellcraft ranks to take Mage Slayer in CA.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Both druid and swordsage are highly active classes, although it is possible for both sides to work around the other.

With swordsage, you could focus on Swift action abilities while you cast standard action BFC spells and 1-round action summonses, or you could buff with druid (preferably using a few dips in classes with turn undead for Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell) and use spells that grant long-term effects such as acorn of far travel, fire seeds, and so on to give you more options on what to do with your turns. You could also consider Flyby Attack, turn into a flying form of your choice, and take turns casting spells and using maneuvers while remaining safely out of reach. Produce flame makes your wildshape-boosted maneuvers even nicer (and the Tiger Claw school allows you to pounce even when you're a bear).

Either way, to conserve spells, I'd suggest a dip into crusader for some in-combat healing, as well as buying a cheaper wand or three (depending on level) of lesser vigor for healing out of combat. If you can choose your animal companion's feats, consider Draconic Aura: Vigor to conserve even more healing for the party. Healing everyone up to half hp after a fight will conserve significant resources.

You might also consider a chronocharm of the uncaring archmage (MIC), using the item stacking rules to add several CotUAs to the same item for additional charges. It's like a metamagic rod of Rapid Spell, but for stupidly cheap.

[Rebel7284]

First of all, you should definitely read the handbook/encyclopedia on how to play a druid as that will be your main class and nothing you add significantly changes that: (linked above but here it is again) https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?439991-Being-Everything-Eggynack-s-Comprehensive-Druid-Handbook

Now going straight Swordsage on the other side is not bad. You end up with a Druid with all good saves, a couple of extra skill points, a couple of extra useful skills, and some helpful things like tactical teleportation and evasion and, of course, wisdom to AC as long as you use light armor (which you want to do anyway.) While this is solid Druid++, what you are getting is mostly utility since many maneuvers are standard actions and don't work terribly well on a druid (your standard actions are typically better used for spellcasting).

Whether it's dipping Cleric for turn undead to abuse Divine Metamagic or taking Warshaper for free stat boosts and abilities whenever you are wildshaped, there are other classes that work better making druid more powerful by improving its main class features of spellcasting and wildshaping. Those will be better from a power perspective.

Exactly what you want to do will depend on the power level of your group and what you want your character to do. After all, the Druid can already do absolutely everything, what part of everything do you want to make better?

[HavelRockOfGold]

hey all appreciate the suggestions so far to answer a few things i have no idea what race i should be choosing, i know humans gain an additional feat and 1 additional skill point per level; are there better choices?

As to what i would like to do i was going to stick with the spellcasting side of things, because if i recall correctly a wildshape can bolster certain stats depending on what one wildshapes into correct?

Also if i need to i can also take flaws to increase feats early on.

sorry im not quoting anyone im having issues trying to quote reply for some reason or perhaps im merely doing it wrong.

quick edit but i thought with gestalt one could only do one prestige class?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You can only do one prestige class at a time, i.e. if you take a level of a prestige class, it must be taken with a level of a base class. So just take a level of Druid at every character level, and you won't need to worry about the gestalt prestige class rules as long as you avoid dual-progres.

Human is generally always a good choice of race. The Anthropomorphic Bat in SS or Jermaline in MM2 are extremely cheesy but mechanically stronger. If you do go with one of those, definitely get Master of Many Forms so you can wild shape into humanoid forms. Once you get wild shape your only ability scores that really matter are Con and Wis, so ignore any bonuses to other stats that any race offers. You may need to make a Knowledge: Nature check to show you know about a given animal before Wild Shaping into it the first time, if you're worried about those checks a Killoren in RotW using Aspect of the Ancients is the way to go. My advice here is to look at the races which are mechanically viable, and from among those choose the strongest one you'll be the most comfortable with role-playing.

As a Druid, you'll be good at all the things simultaneously, but you will have limited resources in some areas like spells. Use spells conservatively where they'll have the greatest impact, but use melee attacks to deal damage since there's no daily limit to how many of those you'll get. In combat, you'll generally want to already be in a wild shape form, send in your animal companion to fight something, and start by casting a strong crowd control (Entangle, Wall of Smoke, Kelpstrand, Sleet Storm, Wall of Thorns, Call Avalanche, etc.) on top of as many opponents as possible. On the next turn if there's a lot of enemies, use another crowd control or start casting a Summon Nature's Ally for multiple lions, you finish casting and they appear on the following turn when you can cast Animal Growth on them and your companion. Otherwise just charge in and start ripping off faces.

[HavelRockOfGold]

You can only do one prestige class at a time, i.e. if you take a level of a prestige class, it must be taken with a level of a base class. So just take a level of Druid at every character level, and you won't need to worry about the gestalt prestige class rules as long as you avoid dual-progres.

Human is generally always a good choice of race. The Anthropomorphic Bat in SS or Jermaline in MM2 are extremely cheesy but mechanically stronger. If you do go with one of those, definitely get Master of Many Forms so you can wild shape into humanoid forms. Once you get wild shape your only ability scores that really matter are Con and Wis, so ignore any bonuses to other stats that any race offers. You may need to make a Knowledge: Nature check to show you know about a given animal before Wild Shaping into it the first time, if you're worried about those checks a Killoren in RotW using Aspect of the Ancients is the way to go. My advice here is to look at the races which are mechanically viable, and from among those choose the strongest one you'll be the most comfortable with role-playing.

As a Druid, you'll be good at all the things simultaneously, but you will have limited resources in some areas like spells. Use spells conservatively where they'll have the greatest impact, but use melee attacks to deal damage since there's no daily limit to how many of those you'll get. In combat, you'll generally want to already be in a wild shape form, send in your animal companion to fight something, and start by casting a strong crowd control (Entangle, Wall of Smoke, Kelpstrand, Sleet Storm, Wall of Thorns, Call Avalanche, etc.) on top of as many opponents as possible. On the next turn if there's a lot of enemies, use another crowd control or start casting a Summon Nature's Ally for multiple lions, you finish casting and they appear on the following turn when you can cast Animal Growth on them and your companion. Otherwise just charge in and start ripping off faces.


Went and did a bunch of reading last night Anthropomorphic Bat sounds like a rather good class also read that if you want to make it even better and perhaps someone may have mentioned it already but you could also throw the dragonborn template onto it to not only make it better but perhaps make it easier to roleplay with i haven't read up on the Jermaline yet, also sadly we don't own a copy of the races of the wild.

[HavelRockOfGold]

What race were you thinking and also what type of play style are you going with? I am guessing you are going for wild shape buff and then knocking some heads? are you guys getting any flaws?

Anyways adaptive style is going to be an important feat for you. Check out these handbooks they will be a decent start Beyond that I will hold off until after I hear more

From what others have mentioned and from reading the druid handbook it sounds like a Anthropomorphic Bat with a dragonborn template is a really nice way to go in terms of a race, also i would like to go with spellcasting but some wildshape may be fun to do. also sorry about deleting the links from the quote im new enough that i dont have enough posts to post links yet.

[HavelRockOfGold]

First of all, you should definitely read the handbook/encyclopedia on how to play a druid as that will be your main class and nothing you add significantly changes that:

Now going straight Swordsage on the other side is not bad. You end up with a Druid with all good saves, a couple of extra skill points, a couple of extra useful skills, and some helpful things like tactical teleportation and evasion and, of course, wisdom to AC as long as you use light armor (which you want to do anyway.) While this is solid Druid++, what you are getting is mostly utility since many maneuvers are standard actions and don't work terribly well on a druid (your standard actions are typically better used for spellcasting).

Whether it's dipping Cleric for turn undead to abuse Divine Metamagic or taking Warshaper for free stat boosts and abilities whenever you are wildshaped, there are other classes that work better making druid more powerful by improving its main class features of spellcasting and wildshaping. Those will be better from a power perspective.

Exactly what you want to do will depend on the power level of your group and what you want your character to do. After all, the Druid can already do absolutely everything, what part of everything do you want to make better?


would you mind going over this metamagic thing i don't believe i have delved too deeply into the book associated with this and am intrigued to say the least. Also from what i want to do/read i would like to focus on spellcasting with wildshape. Also sorry about removing the link i am new enough to not have enough posts yet to quote or post links.

[HavelRockOfGold]

A Swordsage typically needs feats like Weapon Finesse, TWF, Shadow Blade, etc. but with Wild Shape you shouldn't need any of that. Adaptive Style is still useful, but not as necessary as Natural Spell. Multiattack can be useful, but typically isn't taken before 9th level considering you need Wild Shape to meet its prerequisite and you'll want Natural Spell first.

Druids actually have two feat taxes: Natural Spell at 6th, and Natural Bond at 3rd or 1st. You can apply your own effects in the most beneficial order, so the 'level -3' effect of having a Fleshraker dinosaur animal companion can be applied before Natural Bond's +3 to your effective Druid level, so you can still count your full level toward its benefits.

Definitely include 20 levels of Druid, there's no better base class to stick with. If you multiclass out of Swordsage you still advance your initiator level by half per character level, so if you go back into Swordsage later you can pick up higher level maneuvers and stances.

Your build really depends on what you want to focus more on. A Druid is good at all the things, but as a gestalt character you can be significantly better at several of those things without sacrificing your ability to be good at any of the others. Consider the following choices for fewer Swordsage levels:

Master of Many Forms 3 or 7 or 10: At 3rd level you get monstrous humanoid forms, such as Annis Hag and War Troll (MM3). At 7th you get the War Troll's regeneration, SR, and DR/adamantine when in that form. I wouldn't go for all ten levels, but if that's what you're into go for it. If going for seven or more levels Frozen Wild Shape is useful for 12-headed Cryohydra, and Assume Supernatural Ability: Eye Rays breaks the game when you assume the form of any of the various Beholders.

Warshaper 2 or 3: You don't need more than three levels of this, those levels give you some of the best benefits to be found in any class, but only when you're not in your own form.

Beastmaster 1: This gives +3 to your effective Druid level for your animal companion's benefits. You can apply this after Natural Bond, so that increases it up to your Druid level, then Beastmaster puts it over by three.

Fast Movement Range 1 at 1st level: This is assuming you're not using the fractional BAB rules, so this effectively makes your BAB equal your character level unless you have a level where neither class's BAB increases by one point. So you would be a Druid 20// Ranger 1/ Swordage+ with full BAB.

Sacred Exorcist 1, (Cloistered) Cleric 1, Dread Necromancer 1: One or two of these are useful for gaining turn/rebuke attempts to power Divine Metamagic. With (Cloistered) Cleric you can take the Rebuke Dragons ACF in Dragon Magic, which specifically can still power divine feats. So if you're not good aligned dip (Cloistered) Cleric and Dread Necromancer, if you're good aligned dip Contemplative 1 for the Balance domain for prerequisites before (Cloistered) Cleric 1, and then Sacred Exorcist 1. Cleric domains should be Planning and Undeath, for Extend Spell and Extra Turning, and trade the free Knowledge domain for Knowledge Devotion. The best spells for DMM: Persistent include Bite of the Werebear/Weretiger and Stormrage.

Seeker of the Misty Isle 1: This gets you the Travel domain and adds the domain spells to your Druid class, but only one per spell level per day. It's fairly amazing, especially considering it can be taken without losing a Druid level on a gestalt character. Keep in mind you can't have any Cleric levels prior to gaining this if you want to apply the domain spells to Druid.


I recommend being both good aligned and having an exalted status. Cast (Extended) (Greater) Luminous Armor on yourself and your companion every day, and get a Rod of Bodily Restoration in MIC to fix the Str damage that occurs when it ends. If your companion isn't a fleshraker nor anything that has a poisonous attack (as BoED arbitrarily decided poison is evil), you can get Exalted Companion to get a Celestial version of your animal companion. Since your companion is now good-aligned it can also have an exalted status and it can take Vow of Poverty, which has no drawbacks whatsoever. It should also get enough cross-class Spellcraft ranks to take Mage Slayer in CA.


This was a lot to read, but i don't mind i believe i understand majority of what you typed and some ill have to do more reading on so that i better understand how it all works together, but i believe that depends on what i wanted to do for the majority of this, the natural bond feat i wasn't aware of or simply skipped over it in past reading and can lead you to having powerful companions from what i am understanding.

[BlueWitch]

Not so much advice, but I just wanted to say your characters going to be a real pain in the ass to fight later xD

Just from the perspective of a GM.

Martial Maneuver classes can be surprisingly resourceful and tenaciously crafty. Unless your GM whips out CR 3+ levels higher than you're at or gives them cheese like gaze and flight all the time.

If you do the Unarmed Swordsage variant, then you've got a very inexpensive force to be reckoned with.

[HavelRockOfGold]

hey guys, so my DM got back to us and we'll be starting as level 12, and as i stated i'd like to stick to using the spell casting side of the druid, but question is what are some wild shape forms that can make me a better caster? is it just to choose a good flying form? what about feats and such? i know natural spell is a must at level 6.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

hey guys, so my DM got back to us and we'll be starting as level 12, and as i stated i'd like to stick to using the spell casting side of the druid, but question is what are some wild shape forms that can make me a better caster? is it just to choose a good flying form? what about feats and such? i know natural spell is a must at level 6.If you go Aberration Wild Shape and Assume Supernatural Ability (Quickness), that gives you two standard action spells per round. It's better than Quicken, although it costs two three feats (with Aberration Blood as a prereq) and a few minor penalties. You might also consider more instances of Assume Supernatural Ability for things like constant greater invisibility, or even things like the phasm's Alternate Form (at level 15) for even more fun.

[Edit] You may want to consider flaws with the above. Feats are valuable, and you'd need quite a few.

[edit 2] Related: I posted a question about this in the Q&A thread. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?622060-Simple-RAW-Thread-for-3-5-36-The-Triple-Dozen&p=24866035&viewfull=1#post24866035)

[HavelRockOfGold]

[QUOTE=MaxiDuRaritry;24865815]If you go Aberration Wild Shape and Assume Supernatural Ability (Quickness), that gives you two standard action spells per round. It's better than Quicken, although it costs two three feats (with Aberration Blood as a prereq) and a few minor penalties. You might also consider more instances of Assume Supernatural Ability for things like constant greater invisibility, or even things like the phasm's Alternate Form (at level 15) for even more fun.

[Edit] You may want to consider flaws with the above. Feats are valuable, and you'd need quite a few.


Interesting, i have to be honest i never got into wild shaping a lot when i first played druid so i till have to say im quite new to it and im not certain i have the book available to me that has the aberration wild shape feat, but flaws are def a good idea which if i recall one can take up to two flaws which will be an additional two feats for a total of 9 technically 8 since one should always take natural spell, still haven't decided my race yet i guess either human for another feat or i could do the anthropomorphic humanoid bat route by using the humanoid table from SS which gives you a rather large wisdom boost without an LA (still cant post links but i went and read it)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Interesting, i have to be honest i never got into wild shaping a lot when i first played druid so i till have to say im quite new to it and im not certain i have the book available to me that has the aberration wild shape feat, but flaws are def a good idea which if i recall one can take up to two flaws which will be an additional two feats for a total of 9 technically 8 since one should always take natural spell, still haven't decided my race yet i guess either human for another feat or i could do the anthropomorphic humanoid bat route by using the humanoid table from SS which gives you a rather large wisdom boost without an LA (still cant post links but i went and read it)Aberration Wild Shape is in Lords of Madness.

Note that taking Assume Supernatural Ability (Phasm's Alternate Form) gives you the ability to use a single wild shape to assume "any form of Large size or smaller." That's a LOT of flexibility, to the point where you only need to use your wild shape to turn into phasms and anything larger than Large.

[edit] Or to use wild feats or other abilities that use wild shape to fuel them.

[HavelRockOfGold]

Aberration Wild Shape is in Lords of Madness.

Note that taking Assume Supernatural Ability (Phasm's Alternate Form) gives you the ability to use a single wild shape to assume "any form of Large size or smaller." That's a LOT of flexibility, to the point where you only need to use your wild shape to turn into phasms and anything larger than Large.

[edit] Or to use wild feats or other abilities that use wild shape to fuel them.

I see sadly i don't have a copy of Lords of madness so i will not be able to use it since our DM prefers we use books that we have and i listed the books i have access to in my first post, but if we ever do get it i will keep this in mind.

[Gruftzwerg]

I could recommend to have a look at my Papa Smurf build (see signature). It is a double ubercharger build that focuses on the Fleshraker as animal companion/mount and Redcaps as target form. Redcaps have a special advancement that varies depending on their HD. Wild Shape is capable of shaping into those higher HD forms. Finally the Redcap is of small size with powerful build. This enables you to ride you fleshraker anywhere where a medium creature has enough space.

For you Gestalt build, you could move the Master of Many Forms onto the second side to get full druid spell progression on your first side. Complete Master of Many Forms and mix with Swordsage as you see it fit.

[Fouredged Sword]

You have a couple of big choices about how you want to play this sort of thing.

The first big choice is if you want to lean into the active or passive role of ether Druid or Swordsage. I suggest you pick one as an active class and one as a passive class. You only get one set of actions a round and both Swordsage and Druid are capable of using all of them. Thus it may be wise to pick one of the classes and lean into the more passive aspects of it and focus on using them to augment the more active parts of the other class.

Another choice to make is between natural weapons via wildshape and manufactured weapons. Both have their upsides and downsides. Alternatively you could only use weapons as a secondary and use the non-punchy druid abilities for combat.

Here are a couple of ideas on how to play this.

The annoying ninja bird that shoots bears.
- Wildshape into a bird and stay out of reach. Use swordsage to pick up shadow hand and diamond mind stances and counters to make you as slippery as possible. Flirt around combat while hidden and out of reach and shoot bears at your enemies with summon nature's ally spells and battle field control spells. Get behind the enemy line to ambush vulnerable enemies like casters with devastating fly by attacks.

Pawsmack
- Turn into something large and scary with wildshape. Focus on something with a single powerful natural weapon. Get karmic strike and eventually Robilar's Gambit so you can punch people who attack you. Use bite of the were X spells to ensure you punch WAY harder than they do. Use healing spells to ensure you stay at high HP and thus remain able to take hits. Use your single big natural attack to pound your opposition with powerful single hits like stone dragon strikes.

Thoughts
- If you play under level 5 then consider wielding a quarterstaff and casting Shillelagh on it. It's a great weapon to use to make strikes as your quarterstaff turns into a +1 two handed weapon (so +1.5x str mod to damage) that deals 2d6 base damage.

- It's worth getting one of the mountain hammer style strikes from the Stone Dragon school of maneuvers even if you don't want to punch things in melee. It's endlessly useful in that you can bypass hardness. The number of uses for the ability to eventually punch through any object given time is endless. My group jokingly called it the initiator's lockpick. Locked in a cage? Mountain Hammer. Door in the way? Mountain Hammer. Trap hidden in wall? Mountain HAMMER!.

[HavelRockOfGold]

You have a couple of big choices about how you want to play this sort of thing.

The first big choice is if you want to lean into the active or passive role of ether Druid or Swordsage. I suggest you pick one as an active class and one as a passive class. You only get one set of actions a round and both Swordsage and Druid are capable of using all of them. Thus it may be wise to pick one of the classes and lean into the more passive aspects of it and focus on using them to augment the more active parts of the other class.

Another choice to make is between natural weapons via wildshape and manufactured weapons. Both have their upsides and downsides. Alternatively you could only use weapons as a secondary and use the non-punchy druid abilities for combat.

Here are a couple of ideas on how to play this.

The annoying ninja bird that shoots bears.
- Wildshape into a bird and stay out of reach. Use swordsage to pick up shadow hand and diamond mind stances and counters to make you as slippery as possible. Flirt around combat while hidden and out of reach and shoot bears at your enemies with summon nature's ally spells and battle field control spells. Get behind the enemy line to ambush vulnerable enemies like casters with devastating fly by attacks.

Pawsmack
- Turn into something large and scary with wildshape. Focus on something with a single powerful natural weapon. Get karmic strike and eventually Robilar's Gambit so you can punch people who attack you. Use bite of the were X spells to ensure you punch WAY harder than they do. Use healing spells to ensure you stay at high HP and thus remain able to take hits. Use your single big natural attack to pound your opposition with powerful single hits like stone dragon strikes.

Thoughts
- If you play under level 5 then consider wielding a quarterstaff and casting Shillelagh on it. It's a great weapon to use to make strikes as your quarterstaff turns into a +1 two handed weapon (so +1.5x str mod to damage) that deals 2d6 base damage.

- It's worth getting one of the mountain hammer style strikes from the Stone Dragon school of maneuvers even if you don't want to punch things in melee. It's endlessly useful in that you can bypass hardness. The number of uses for the ability to eventually punch through any object given time is endless. My group jokingly called it the initiator's lockpick. Locked in a cage? Mountain Hammer. Door in the way? Mountain Hammer. Trap hidden in wall? Mountain HAMMER!.

I have given it quite a bit of thought and have decided i would like to use the druid and its spellcasting as the active part of the class and Swordsage as the passive, having done some reading i was trying to determine what aerial form would be good to use. The ninja bird does sound quite fun to do i also remember reading something about using storm elementals and call lightning storm to some great effect and other battlefield spells to cause chaos for your enemies.

I also keep seeing people suggest fleshraker and im gonna skip on it because im fairly certain my DM will veto that thing so any other suggetions for an animal companion for a spell casting druid? i will be doing some more reading into swoordsage to see which maneuvers and such i can use passively to my benefit, but feel free to list some.

(edited to correct minor spelling errors)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I also keep seeing people suggest fleshraker and im gonna skip on it because im fairly certain my DM will veto that thing so any other suggetions for an animal companion for a spell casting druid? i will be doing some more reading into swoordsage to see which maneuvers and such i can use passively to my benefit, but feel free to list some.Big cats tend to be the better choices here, due to pounce. They also have all the same body slots for items as humanoids, so you could kit them out with just about any magic item you want (although some would need to be converted; namely weapons, armor, gloves, and boots). Otherwise, great apes, because they're very much humanoid-shaped and wouldn't need any item conversions at all

[HavelRockOfGold]

Big cats tend to be the better choices here, due to pounce. They also have all the same body slots for items as humanoids, so you could kit them out with just about any magic item you want (although some would need to be converted; namely weapons, armor, gloves, and boots). Otherwise, great apes, because they're very much humanoid-shaped and wouldn't need any item conversions at all.

Now that's interesting i didn't realize you could give animal companions items let alone armor. That opens a host of ideas.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Flying, burrowing, and swimming (dire) creatures are also considerations, depending on what you want.

[HavelRockOfGold]

Flying, burrowing, and swimming (dire) creatures are also considerations, depending on what you want.

Flying ight be interesting for some shenanigans perhaps having pull a Lord of the rings move and pick up and drop enemies from high in the sky is an amusing thought.

[Fouredged Sword]

I have given it quite a bit of thought and have decided i would like to use the druid and its spellcasting as the active part of the class and Swordsage as the passive, having done some reading i was trying to determine what aerial form would be good to use. The ninja bird does sound quite fun to do i also remember reading something about using storm elementals and call lightning storm to some great effect and other battlefield spells to cause chaos for your enemies.

I also keep seeing people suggest fleshraker and im gonna skip on it because im fairly certain my DM will veto that thing so any other suggetions for an animal companion for a spell casting druid? i will be doing some more reading into swoordsage to see which maneuvers and such i can use passively to my benefit, but feel free to list some.

(edited to correct minor spelling errors)

I would not that flyby attack is an exception to the standard in that rather than giving you an attack in the middle of a move action it allows you to take ANY STANDARD action in the middle of a move if you can fly. This pairs very well with standard action strikes. The fact that you are hitting with a 1d1 claw doesn't matter if you are delivering a strike that replaces your damage with a concentrationc check.

There is an item called a vest of steady spellcasting that gives you +20 to a concentration check 3x a day and can be used to give those diamond mind strikes +20 or +40 damage respectively.

You can also use flyby attack to move, cast a spell, then finish your move. You can hide as part of a move action, allowing you to move, cast and or attack, and then hide again all in one turn.

I would take the shadowhand stance that grants concealment if you move more than a specific distance, granting you pretty constant 20% miss chance and allowing you to hide while moving even outside of cover (but you need to not be currently seen to hide). Then go diamond mind for the save counters and the strikes that replace damage with a concentration check.