Polymorph and Qualifying for Templates

[Zanos]

Lets say we have an enterprising wizard who would like to improve his undead minions. There's a near spell called nar fiendbond that I could use to turn a humanoid into a half-fiend and give them all sorts of cool powers, but his undead are undead, not humanoids. Assuming he could use a polymorph spell to turn the undead creature into a humanoid for the 1 hour casting time of nar fiendbond, they would gain the half-fiend template. What happens then when the polymorph ends? The effect that turned them into a humanoid is gone, but gaining a template is instantaneous, so would they retain it or lose it?

Similarly, lets say a character is a monstrous humanoid that wants to become a lich. The lich template can only be added to humanoids. Assuming again that he could magically change his type via polymorph or some other spell for the duration of applying the lich template, could he become a lich? Would the template be removed when the polymorph effects ends?

I'm thinking that this should work in both cases, because losing the prerequisites for a template does not remove the template, since many of them are self-disqualifying. But I'm curious if there's any language in RAW i'm not aware of where a polymorph ending would strip away other changes that have been made to you.

[Doctor Despair]

The effect that turned them into a humanoid is gone, but gaining a template is instantaneous, so would they retain it or lose it?

I'm thinking that this should work in both cases, because losing the prerequisites for a template does not remove the template, since many of them are self-disqualifying. But I'm curious if there's any language in RAW i'm not aware of where a polymorph ending would strip away other changes that have been made to you.

I don't believe there is any mechanism to remove a template when you lose the prerequisites to taking the template. If that were the case, you would lose templates that change your type immediately upon taking the template unless your new type still allows you to meet the prerequisites. As you said, given that reading makes many templates self-disqualifying, they shouldn't work that way -- and as I doubt the designers considered folks using Polymorph to temporary qualify for templates, I wouldn't bet on there being language that would specifically revoke templates, either. You're probably in the clear.

[Venger]

They retain it in both cases. You'd need to use pao for the undead since it also works on objects but templates, like anything else, just check if you're a legal target when they're applied, so you can lose whatever let you qualify later and nothing keep the template.

[Zanos]

They retain it in both cases. You'd need to use pao for the undead since it also works on objects but templates, like anything else, just check if you're a legal target when they're applied, so you can lose whatever let you qualify later and nothing keep the template.
I was about to say they could drop the immunity, but I never noticed until now that polymorph targets a "Willing living creature touched". Odd. I suppose most undead casters can't actually use polymorph on themselves. I guess I could also use magic jar to hop into their bodies and use draconic polymorph, since that's a personal spell.

But cool. It's nice to know that I can make some discount death knights.

[Venger]

I was about to say they could drop the immunity, but I never noticed until now that polymorph targets a "Willing living creature touched". Odd. I suppose most undead casters can't actually use polymorph on themselves. I guess I could also use magic jar to hop into their bodies and use draconic polymorph, since that's a personal spell.

But cool. It's nice to know that I can make some discount death knights.

Liches have a specific exemption that allows them to benefit from polymorphs they cast themselves, but other kinds of undead need pao.

Yeah, magic jar/draconic polymorph works too.

[Ashiel]

Lets say we have an enterprising wizard who would like to improve his undead minions. There's a near spell called nar fiendbond that I could use to turn a humanoid into a half-fiend and give them all sorts of cool powers, but his undead are undead, not humanoids. Assuming he could use a polymorph spell to turn the undead creature into a humanoid for the 1 hour casting time of nar fiendbond, they would gain the half-fiend template. What happens then when the polymorph ends? The effect that turned them into a humanoid is gone, but gaining a template is instantaneous, so would they retain it or lose it?

Similarly, lets say a character is a monstrous humanoid that wants to become a lich. The lich template can only be added to humanoids. Assuming again that he could magically change his type via polymorph or some other spell for the duration of applying the lich template, could he become a lich? Would the template be removed when the polymorph effects ends?

I'm thinking that this should work in both cases, because losing the prerequisites for a template does not remove the template, since many of them are self-disqualifying. But I'm curious if there's any language in RAW i'm not aware of where a polymorph ending would strip away other changes that have been made to you.

This kind of reminds me of template chaining (where a template is applied to a creature changing its type, which then qualifies it for a new template that was incompatible with its previous type, and down the line it goes). An example of this might be something like taking an animal and casting awaken on it turning it into a magical beast, then using the half-golem template from the MM II to turn the magical beast into a construct, and then turning them into a humanoid using incarnate construct, and then turning them into something else like a lich. To my knowledge, all adjustments simply carry over as described by the changes. I don't think this would be any different.

[unseenmage]

It works but a lot of folk frown on it.

To my knowledge spells dont even fall off or stop functioning due to type change.
If they did then type changing spells themselves would cease functioning as soon as they took effect.