The Warlock KO King! Sponsored by Sprite!

[Sherlockpwns]

So in flipping through the new book I had a fun concept that finally makes use of the least popular improved familiar: Sprite. The un-cola is finally ready!

The core of the build is pretty simple.

Pact of the Chain + Investment of the Chain Master on a sprite gives you a pretty great bonus attack at level 2. A +6 to hit (for 1 dmg!) that causes poison at your spell cast DC. Basically, gives you the chance to poison someone every round at 40ft range. There's actually a pretty solid chance of knocking out someone hit by this poison too. Whereas the failing the default 10DC by 5 is unlikely at best, failing a 13-18 DC by 5 suddenly enters the "will happen" realm.

At level 5 is where it kicks off and stays incredibly potent probably until about level 9-10 with the addition of Summon Undead.

The Festering undead has this to say about kicking ass:

Hit: 1d6 + 3 + the spell's level slashing damage. If the target is poisoned, it must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC be paralyzed until the end of its next turn.

So round 1 you can have your sprite trigger a con save (Bonus action) vs poison, summon the undead (Action) and immediately command it to attack, doing a solid 1d6+8 damage and triggering another spell save vs. Paralysis - which as we know is basically instant death if it fails, as your next attack is going to do a minimum of 4d10 (your blast) + 2d6+8 (its attack) to it, before anyone else steps in. As combat proceeds your putrid aura and sprite will be poisoning everything left and right... until one or both die. They're not exactly tanks (AC 14, 30HP for the spirit and 2hp for your spirte, lol).

Due to this I'd probably save summoning until the enemy is actually poisoned.

At level 7 the undead gets 2 attacks, which massively boosts how hard it will be to save vs. paralysis.

Now, people hate on poison for good reason. There will be plenty of times this combo won't work, and I think that is fine. It's the wrong build to bring to Avernus, but an invisible scout is always handy and you can always summon a ghost or grave bolt when poison isn't needed (or just cast a different spell). Just imagine your spirte, you, and your summon sitting in the back launching 2d10+2xCha + 4d4 + 14 + 1 (sprite power!). A veritable one-warlock artillery.

The question I have left is: What else would build on this concept? Obviously standard Voice of the Chain Master and Gift of the Ever-Living Ones are handy, but certainly not required. As you progress beyond level 10 or so the power of the summon undead ability will be limited due to not being able to upcast it, though it's DC will continue to climb so may still be totally viable even late game as long as you are up against things that are not poison immune. You could start summoning ghouls for extra paralysis saves... or maybe Greater Demons as a replacement to the Undead.

Anything I missed here that would fit? I tend to think of builds "max" at level 14, as I don't tend to play custom campaigns that go higher. I think this is 100% viable to 14 even as-is, though it may be a bit weaker at 14 than it feels at level 5.

Oh and I have not really thought much about which Patron is best here. Basically this build appears to not care, but thematically I guess Archfey or Fiend may be closest.

[MaxWilson]

Whereas the failing the default 10DC by 5 is unlikely at best, failing a 13-18 DC by 5 suddenly enters the "will happen" realm.
...
Anything I missed here that would fit?

I feel compelled to note that Sprites only knock you out on a result of 5 or lower. Raising the DC does not increase chance of a KO.

[Naanomi]

Sprites are the least popular?? I like Sprites, no other reliable way for PCs to detect Alignments anymore... I always thought Psuedodragon (and its lack of Invisibility) was the lemon in that group

[Foxhound438]

Sprites are the least popular?? I like Sprites, no other reliable way for PCs to detect Alignments anymore... I always thought Psuedodragon (and its lack of Invisibility) was the lemon in that group

A lot of people get the idea that Psuedodragon gives you advantage on all saves because of a sidebar that's tucked away in the monster manual. There's arguably some merit to the argument, though it's probably not intended to be handed to every warlock who picks it, else it would be in the thing's actual stat block.

[MaxWilson]

Sprites are the least popular?? I like Sprites, no other reliable way for PCs to detect Alignments anymore... I always thought Psuedodragon (and its lack of Invisibility) was the lemon in that group

They've also got good movement and high Stealth. They're my personal favorite of the four Chainlock familiars.

[Hellpyre]

Whenever I've taken Chainlock, I've always stuck with a sprite until the tail end of tier 2. The off chance of that poison working is a fantastic hail mary play for a good while, and the relative advantages of an imp have never been a great enough reason to abandon it until the mid levels for me. I've also played with DMs offering basically the Tasha's bonus action attack before, and that made the potential condition rider even better (even though the DC wasn't scaling in those games). Warlocks don't have a lot competing for the bonus action slot, so they are quite nice as a way to get utility from it.

[Greywander]

A lot of people get the idea that Psuedodragon gives you advantage on all saves because of a sidebar that's tucked away in the monster manual. There's arguably some merit to the argument, though it's probably not intended to be handed to every warlock who picks it, else it would be in the thing's actual stat block.
IIRC, several other creatures, including the imp, have the same sidebar. I believe this only applies when you track down a real instance of that creature and make it agree to become your familiar. Using Find Familiar doesn't trigger this sidebar effect. It should be noted that contracts with a creature to be your familiar follow different rules from the Find Familiar spell anyway, so you shouldn't expect them to work the same way. It might be a bit misleading even to call both types a "familiar" when they're not the same thing.

[Foxhound438]

IIRC, several other creatures, including the imp, have the same sidebar. I believe this only applies when you track down a real instance of that creature and make it agree to become your familiar. Using Find Familiar doesn't trigger this sidebar effect. It should be noted that contracts with a creature to be your familiar follow different rules from the Find Familiar spell anyway, so you shouldn't expect them to work the same way. It might be a bit misleading even to call both types a "familiar" when they're not the same thing.

I certainly agree, but I know there are powergamers out there that will flip a table over this exact thing.

[Vorpalchicken]

Whoops I read that as "failed by five." Apologies to the roll20 DM on whose monsters I sicked my super sprite the other day.
Edit. Well heck. That's how they wrote the Pseudodragon. The poor Sprite is back on the shelf until I need Know Alignment for my Santa Claus build.

[Sherlockpwns]

You are right, I too misread it compared to the pseudo. Still, the rest of the combo holds up. You just don’t get the initial KO as often.

[KorvinStarmast]

But, if there is a Divination wizard in your group :smallsmile: it might happen a bit more often.

[MaxWilson]

IIRC, several other creatures, including the imp, have the same sidebar. I believe this only applies when you track down a real instance of that creature and make it agree to become your familiar. Using Find Familiar doesn't trigger this sidebar effect. It should be noted that contracts with a creature to be your familiar follow different rules from the Find Familiar spell anyway, so you shouldn't expect them to work the same way. It might be a bit misleading even to call both types a "familiar" when they're not the same thing.

Agreed, except that you might not have to track down an Imp/Pseudodragon per se--you could make one with True Polymorph.

[Chaosmancer]

I feel compelled to note that Sprites only knock you out on a result of 5 or lower. Raising the DC does not increase chance of a KO.


Right, I remembered there was a reason I wasn't super excited about this before.

I mean, bonus action poisoned is still decent enough to pursue, since it lasts a full minute. But the unconscious is basically never going to trigger

[micahaphone]

Seems to me like this would still be a potent thing to do with a Pseudodragon, right?


the target must succeed on a DC 11 Constitution saving throw or become poisoned for 1 hour. If the saving throw fails by 5 or more, the target falls unconscious for the same duration, or until it takes damage or another creature uses an action to shake it awake.

It'd be like a BA Sleep spell happening every round, except based on a con save vs hp. Either summon a melee monster or have some melee allies who will love the insta crits.

I know it's a melee attack, but with a great weapon barb or a paladin, they might want to take Sentinel anyway, so your pseudodragon doing hit & run and incurring an AOO could still result in more attacks being done

[MaxWilson]

Seems to me like this would still be a potent thing to do with a Pseudodragon, right?

It'd be like a BA Sleep spell happening every round, except based on a con save vs hp. Either summon a melee monster or have some melee allies who will love the insta crits.

I know it's a melee attack, but with a great weapon barb or a paladin, they might want to take Sentinel anyway, so your pseudodragon doing hit & run and incurring an AOO could still result in more attacks being done

It's ironic to see people getting excited about the potential for a DC 8ish to 14ish melee Sleep attack when others on these forums often loudly complain that having "only" a 14 in your spellcasting stat makes your DC 12-16 spells "useless". For my part I'd rather have a sprite shooting safely from range than a melee Pseudodragon who has to be babysat. You're right that the Pseudodragon incurring OAs isn't awful, I just personally don't want to deal with it, and the Poisoned condition is already pretty good.

I already liked Sprites and Chainlocks. Under Tasha's rules I'd like them even more. But I dislike the majority of Tasha's rules so maybe that doesn't matter.

[Sherlockpwns]

It's ironic to see people getting excited about the potential for a DC 8ish to 14ish melee Sleep attack ...

I'd agree that the "sleep" hit is far less important than the poison rider. Poison is what lets you do the Paralyze and in general is just a massive debuf.

Obviously I'd rather it be like the Pseudodragon's on the Sprite but whatcha gonna do. I apparently can't read gud.

My favorite part of my thread is how many people came to the defense of the Sprite. Ok, maybe I exaggerated a little and the Pseudodragon is worse, but come on... you know the Imp is the #1 choice!

Anyway, Tasha's firmly cements Pseudo to #4, because the sleep is "ok" but the real value is the Poison, which you can get off the Quasit if you wanted melee. Then you'd get the flight, invisibility, poison, and the scare ability once per long rest (day)... but at 7HP each I imagine keeping them as far from the action as possible is ideal.

I will say that the 14 stat is useless mentality is somewhat silly, as it's really a 10% less chance to land the spell (at most). But I'll also say that there's a huge difference between an "unlimited" bonus action effect and a resource costing action. I'd take free DC14s to level 20 as bonus actions. Regular actions? Maybe not.

[micahaphone]

It's ironic to see people getting excited about the potential for a DC 8ish to 14ish melee Sleep attack when others on these forums often loudly complain that having "only" a 14 in your spellcasting stat makes your DC 12-16 spells "useless". For my part I'd rather have a sprite shooting safely from range than a melee Pseudodragon who has to be babysat. You're right that the Pseudodragon incurring OAs isn't awful, I just personally don't want to deal with it, and the Poisoned condition is already pretty good.

I already liked Sprites and Chainlocks. Under Tasha's rules I'd like them even more. But I dislike the majority of Tasha's rules so maybe that doesn't matter.

I mean, it's basically a limitless hold person (+ prone) on a BA using your spell save DC, I'd say hold person is a good spell, stands to reason that it's good even the risk of your familiar dying.

[MaxWilson]

My favorite part of my thread is how many people came to the defense of the Sprite. Ok, maybe I exaggerated a little and the Pseudodragon is worse, but come on... you know the Imp is the #1 choice!

Imp has more HP, darkvision, and weapon resistance, but Sprite has better AC, better Stealth and a ranged attack. They can both do Invisibility. I'll take the Sprite for scouting, and scouting is an important job. In combat I'll take the ranged attack inflicting the Poisoned condition over a melee attack for about 10 HP of damage. It's safer and more effective.