Disguise vs Magic: Please Help!

[Doctor Despair]

Let me preface this by saying that there are countless options to foil magical detection if your goal is to hide, or just to hide your identity; where I am really struggling is trying to make a relatively fool-proof way to disguise yourself as a specific person. In terms of just looking like the person, a high disguise check is easy enough to attain (for example, a Changeling with wild shape can get +20 to their check for hours at a time), but there are a number of ways to no-sell a disguise that I'm trying to avoid. Disguising yourself as a specific person is difficult because you must not only hide your actual qualities, but make it so that you test positively for the qualities of your mark.


Magic Gear/Clothing: A Chameleoweave Vestment of Many Styles (lined with lead on the inside) should block line of effect to any magic items you wear under your clothes and provide an outfit for any disguise.


Type: Changelings have access to Racial Emulation which states quite broadly: "Though you do not gain any of the humanoid's traits, you are considered to be a member of that race for all other purposes..." Providing you are seeking to disguise yourself as some sort of humanoid, this should be relatively fool-proof, as it should not only have you detect positively for your mark's types and subtypes, but also detect negatively for your own types or subtypes (if your mark doesn't also have them). This helps with powerful special senses like Mindsight or Keen Eared Scout that would otherwise reveal you at the gate.


Detect Thoughts: Immunities to mind-affecting seems the best route here. Folks can come to their own conclusions about why you never fail your will save.


Magical Casting Ability: Spells like Arcane Sight and Vatic Gaze can detect whether or not you use arcane or divine casting, and what spells you have prepared respectively. Levels in Chameleon allow you to gain or lose arcane or divine casting respectively, which should help you to mask your abilities somewhat. Using the Chameleon floating feat for Extra Spell can let you grab iconic arcane spells the creature might have. It's problematic that your casting will lag behind a full caster, but you can always suggest that you used your higher-level spells (or used the slots to prepare lower-level spells that day).


True Seeing: Specifically, Cloak of Khyber seems to be the only answer here, or just pumping the Disguise check high enough that True Seeing doesn't automatically foil you. Arguably, God Blooded of Vecna might prevent True Seeing from revealing information about you, but that's not nearly as straight forward (and comes with level adjustment). However, Cloak of Khyber also prevents folks from assessing your alignment, which is problematic below, so it seems that Cloak is mainly useful if you are disguising yourself as a true neutral character, or just hiding your identity, but not outside of that.


Alignment: Here is a tricky bit. Although there are countless ways to hide your alignment, there are only so many ways to register with a false alignment as a creature. Master of Masks gives you access to masks that hide your alignment, but come with the downside that you have to wear a distinguishable mask. A ring of misdirection would work so long as the caster always fails their will save and has the same alignment as our mark. These are sub-optimal. Mask of Gentility allows you to register as neutral, but what if you want to register as something other than neutral? There's no way to switch off the feat, so that doesn't really solve the problem, although, notably, you could use the Chameleon floating feat to take Mask of Gentility if you were mimicing a true-neutral character (and didn't want to use Cloak of Khyber for some reason). Misrepresent Alignment or Moral Facade would work, but Cloak of Khyber blocks them, which is... annoying. Unless you want to buff bluff to ridiculous levels to display a false alignment, it seems like Cloak of Khyber is out, and an eternal wand of Moral Facade is in.

There is another option, of course, albeit an expensive one: with re-casts sufficient to use misdirection all day, we could put Moral Facade on an object in our possession. That's sub-optimal relative to just casting Moral Facade on ourselves here, but becomes a more optimal choice given the next category...


Auras: So at the moment, we have a Changeling using various supernatural abilities to buff their disguise and emulate another race wearing magical clothing, shrouded with an effect to spoof their alignment. This leads to another big problem... Detect Magic and its older brothers. Apart from blocking line of effect or becoming immune to divinations through God Blooded of Vecna or Nondetection or something similar, I am having an exceedingly difficult time finding a way to disguise our auras. Misdirection seems to be the prime candidate (or, indeed, the only candidate), throwing those detect spells onto an object inside our lead-lined clothes (and using Nystul's Magic Aura to make it appear nonmagical). However, relying on misdirection is risky, as those who are using these detection abilities presumably have good will saves. I can't think of a better solution, but level 0 Detect Magic coupled with a good spellcraft check will otherwise ruin our disguise...


Others: Apart from that, there are a few effects I don't necessarily have good answers for that don't fall into neat categories.

For Know Vulnerabilities apart from to hope no one casts it. It's not exactly a common spell to be thrown around blindly, so I'm not too worried about it, although arguably it might reveal the normal vulnerabilities of the race we are emulating.

On that same note, Discern Shapechanger is problematic, although Cloak of Khyber (if we used it) might protect from this? It's also a very niche, short-duration spell, so hopefully won't come up.

We can fool Detect Vestige, Detect Incarnum, or Martial Lore at least a little by taking the appropriate feat with our Chameleon feat.

Detect Taint could be tricky, although taint, at least, is mutable enough that you could probably bluff about why you do or do not register with it.

Sense Heretic could also be problematic if your character is, indeed, evil.

Locate Creature could also be problematic if folks are using it, although I see literally no way to deal with that.

Know Greatest Enemy could be problematic, as could Know Opponent.

Power Sight would also present a problem.

There's nothing we can do about someone with Mindsight who has memorized the int score of our mark.

Likewise, there's nothing we can do about Urban Savants.

Someone who has the forethought and time to cast Metafaculty deserves to see through our disguise.


As is, I don't see any easy way to protect from all of these, so the best strategy might be to prioritize them in order of how common they will be. For example...

1. Spot checks are common, so pumping disguise and having appropriate clothing is a top priority.

2. Detect Magic is at level 0, and can be permanent with Permanency or Vatic Gaze, so that's a top priority (and, unfortunately, one that we have no good defense against...)

3. Paladins can detect evil at will, and clerics get detect [alignment] at level 1, so an answer to that will be important

4. Likewise, Arcane Sight can be permanent, so having the appropriate type of casting is important

5. An answer to Detect Thoughts is important, as it is available from a relatively low level at will with various items.

6. Things that check for type are more rare, but are often always on and often offer no save, so it is valuable for that reason. Additionally, our answer (racial emulation) hides our own type, which could be important.

7. True Seeing is powerful when it's on, but most people will only activate it if they have a reason to be suspicious. Cloak of Khyber, unless we can find an easier way to fit it in, shouldn't get top priority.

As such, a Changeling Chameleon/Marshal with misdirection/moral facade/nystul's magic aura on a staff that pumps UMD as high as possible might be the best disguise-focused character there is.


Another option is to just get blanket immunity to divinations with the God Blooded of Vecna template. This solves a host of problems, but replaces then with new ones. Let's, for the sake of the argument, remove any effects that allow a save, as we can bluff that we just pass the save every time through sheer force of will.

1. Detect alignment spells (or Blessed Sight or what have you) now register as no alignment at all. To the best of my knowledge, there's no way to display a false aura through a flat immunity to divination. How do we deal with folks using detect evil when your mark is evil, or detect good when your folk is good, let alone detect law or detect chaos?

2. Arcane Sight will now reveal we have no spellcasting ability, which could be problematic, as it's available as a permanent effect

3. Divinations that reveal type or subtype now reveal nothing. How do we deal with Detect Dragonblood/Favored Enemy?

4. Divinations that detect Incarnum/Vestiges/Taint now yield nothing, which could foil certain disguises

5. Locate Creature still foils us, as does Discern Shapeshifter (if we are trying to disguise ourselves as a Changeling, ironically enough), Know Greatest Enemy, and Power Sight... Granted, these are more situational, so hopefully just wouldn't come up.



The primary things I'd like some help with, if folks know of anything, are:

1. Is there a better way to fool Detect Magic (and friends) than Misdirection?

2. Is there a way to spoof a selected alignment while using Cloak of Khyber?

3. Is there a way to spoof a selected alignment while immune to divinations?

4. Is there a way to fool Arcane Sight while immune to divinations?

5. Can anyone think of any answers to things I've been unable to find an answer for so far?

6. Can anyone think of any further means to practically foil a disguise that I haven't mentioned?

[daremetoidareyo]

Live my nightmare from UA might solve some of those divination problems

[Doctor Despair]

Live my nightmare from UA might solve some of those divination problems

I suppose they can't share their knowledge if they're dead, haha. If we're already banking on them failing a will save, Misdirection might be more subtle, though. :smalltongue:

It's just so frustrating that Misdirection allows for a will save, and as a level 2 spell, the DC is probably going to be pretty low...

... I suppose being immune to divinations should allow a chance to bluff, as a lack of a positive return presumably brings up less suspicion than an incorrect return... In a sense, that's a strategic decision to make in the absence of a superior option I've possibly overlooked:

1. Presumably a 50% chance at best to fool folks with a correct response to divinations, and a 50% chance to register incorrectly (i.e., relying on misdirection)

2. A 100% chance to return no information to divinations, raising a medium amount of suspicion (i.e., using God Blooded of Vecna)

I hope there's some other means to foil humble Detect Magic/Arcane Sight; who would have thought it would be such an overwhelming tool to kill disguises?

Edit:

I suppose we could apply a character like this:

1. Apply the God-Blooded of Vecna template for immunity to divinations

2. Carry two nonmagical rings somewhat prominently; disguise them (with the disguise skill, Nystul's Magic Aura, etc) as unique magic items that Misdirect divination spells from the bearer to the second ring. This would resolve the lack of pinging for alignment and Arcane Sight with a sufficient bluff check. Don't let anyone cast Identify on it.

3. If God Blooded of Vecna doesn't protect from True Seeing, use Cloak of Khyber to block it.

This, at least, gives us a fighting chance to not immediately be discovered by someone using Detect Magic...

... although at that point, with the far-reaching bluffs we'll be performing, we may as well just boost our bluff to 70 to non-magically hide our alignment.

Edit2: I suppose we could always just disguise ourselves as people who share our current alignment, haha. More helpfully though...

After some digging, I think Zhentarim Spy and/or Spymaster might have something going for them here?

They grants two class abilities of note here:

Undetectable Alignment (Ex): At 2nd level, the Zhentarim spy's rigorous mental training enables her to cloud even divination spells. This ability functions like the undetectable alignment spell, except that it is always active and, as an extraordinary ability, is subject to neither dispelling nor suppression by dead magic zones and the like.

Deep Cover (Ex): At 5th level, the Zhentarim spy may choose a number of new cover identities equal to her Intelligence bonus (minimum one). These may be the same cover identities selected for the unlikely cover ability, or they may be different ones, or they may be a mixture of both. Unlike her unlikely cover identities, however, the identities she selects for deep cover need not be new.

When the Zhentarim spy is operating within one of her deep cover identities, her mind is so thoroughly trained and conditioned to think like the person she pretends to be that any magical scrying or mind reading at a power level short of deific reveals nothing about her true nature. Only the thoughts, alignment, and emotions of the fictitious persona can be detected.

Even though this class grants always-active undetectable alignment, Deep Cover still explicitly allows divination to detect the alignment of their cover identity. Spymaster includes similar language:

Undetectable Alignment (Ex): The web of different identities and agendas inside a spymaster's mind makes it impossible for others to detect her alignment by means of any form of divination. This ability functions like an undetectable alignment spell, except that it is always active.

Deep Cover (Ex): At 7th level, a spymaster becomes able to quiet her mind and completely immerse herself in her cover identity. While she operates under deep cover, divination spells detect only information appropriate to her cover identity; they reveal nothing relating to her spymaster persona.

I'm just not sure of the interaction with God Blooded of Vecna, but it's promising!

Edit4: Swordsage'd by Venger

[Venger]

What's with the colors? Makes it kind of hard to read.

In addition to the things you've listed:
persona immersion
perfect reflection

My preferred way of dealing with this is zhentarim spy, which gives you a disguise that can only be penetrated by the gods themselves. If you need to disguise yourself from gods too in your campaign, you can take the similar class, spymaster instead.

If you're worried about discern shapechanger or similar, carry around one or more rings of counterspelling loaded up with dispel magic. That's what my chameleon did.

You can trump detect magic by paoing into an object and protecting yourself with one or more castings of nystul's magic aura.

I see you haven't addressed scent, but that's another way to beat a disguise.

In general in this game, offense is always going to be easier than defense, and it applies in spheres like this as well. There are a lot of ways to bypass and undermine immunities and whatnot and relatively few absolute protections within the system.

[Doctor Despair]

What's with the colors? Makes it kind of hard to read.



Sorry; I was trying to code it by what I felt was addressed and that which I did not see an answer to.

In addition to the things you've listed:
persona immersion
perfect reflection


I like Perfect Reflection a lot, but I was reallly feat-hungry in a recent sample build I was putting together; it absolutely deserves a spot though. Persona Immersion I'm less sold on, as it requires the ability to be one that allows a save, and it requires us to pass the save, and presumably immunities wouldn't trigger it.



My preferred way of dealing with this is zhentarim spy, which gives you a disguise that can only be penetrated by the gods themselves. If you need to disguise yourself from gods too in your campaign, you can take the similar class, spymaster instead.


I was just looking at these actually!



If you're worried about discern shapechanger or similar, carry around one or more rings of counterspelling loaded up with dispel magic. That's what my chameleon did.

Doesn't the Ring of Counterspelling only trigger on spells cast on you?



You can trump detect magic by paoing into an object and protecting yourself with one or more castings of nystul's magic aura.


This is a nice method to become eligible to have the spell cast on you, but doesn't that give you an int score of -, stopping us from casting or taking the standard action to return to our normal form?



I see you haven't addressed scent, but that's another way to beat a disguise.


Scent ought to be covered by Minor Change Shape and/or wildshape, right? As those physically change you to the other creature?

___

To recap thusfar:

Zhentarim Spy's Deep Cover should cover (ha): alignment, detect thoughts, detect hostile intent, etc. Combined with God Blooded of Vecna, that should cover the gamut of all divinations without raising the alarm, so we need not worry about Detect Magic and friends (although we should still need to Magic Aura or otherwise hide our items). It can raise suspicion by pinging nothing with divinations that detect things other than thoughts, alignment, and emotions, however, such as Know Greatest Enemy or what have you. This does arguably leave us vulnerable to true seeing/discern shapechanger, but we can cover with with Cloak of Khyber to make our disguise appear as our true form.

Spymaster's slightly stronger-worded ability should cover: divinations period, much like God Blooded of Vecna. It takes two more levels to get there, but foils deities (probably not relevant, as deities have detection modes other than divination to learn about us). Spymaster also grants more tangential benefits (such as Slippery Mind or at-will magic aura), although a wand of magic aura isn't too hard to come by, nor are lead-lined clothes.

Vatic Gaze can still reveal our spellcasting ability, but relying on Changeling for our spellcasting can at least give us the appropriate type of casting.

Changing our body with Changeling's Minor Shape Change and/or a class's Wildshape should help translate our scent to something more appropriate to our cover, as they are real physical alterations.

Racial emulation will allow us to ping as the appropriate race.

So we could fit something together like so...

God-Blooded of Vecna Changeling
1. Half-Elf Paragon (Racial Emulation, Able Learner (CF))
2. Wildshape Ranger
3. Wildshape Ranger (X)
4. Wildshape Ranger (Endurance (CF))
5. Wildshape Ranger (Alertness (ACF))
6. Wildshape Ranger (Extra Wildshape)
7. Master of Many Forms
8. Chameleon
9. Chameleon (X, floating feat Deceitful for next level)
10. Zhentarim Spy
11. Zhentarim Spy
12. Zhentarim Spy (X)
13. Zhentarim Spy
14. Zhentarim Spy
15. Master of Many Forms (X)
16. Master of Many Forms
17. Master of Many Forms
18. Master of Many Forms (X)
19. Master of Many Forms
20. Master of Many Forms

It bothers me a little bit that I can't fit in 10 levels of a PrC with the wildshape feature though... At leat, without using Divine Minion cheese (which I'm not convinced works by RAW). I suppose we could do something like the following...

God-Blooded of Vecna Changeling
1. Half-Elf Paragon (Racial Emulation, Able Learner (CF))
2. Changeling Rogue
3. X (X)
4. X
5. X
6. Chameleon (X)
7. Chameleon (Floating feat to qualify for prc)
8. Zhentarim Spy
9. Zhentarim Spy (X)
10. Zhentarim Spy
11. Zhentarim Spy
12. Zhentarim Spy (X)
13. Chameleon
14. Chameleon
15. Chameleon (X)
16. Chameleon
17. Chameleon
18. Chameleon (X)
19. Chameleon
20. Chameleon

... but it feels kinda bad giving up the +10 to disguise from wildshape, not to mention the physical abilities and versatility it offered. Most play doesn't go to epic, after all; I probably shouldn't let it bother me so much that the character might have to take 3 levels of non-epic MoMF going into epic levels, haha.

[Venger]

Yeah, perfect reflection's nice if you can afford it. Same as you listing all these options to change alignment, I don't assume you have all of them up at the same time, so I figured I'd just list as many options as I could think of and if this is for a specific build, you could pick what was useful. I don't expect you to take all these feats.

Yeah, ring of counterspelling does only trigger on those, so it would be useful for ones targeting you. Since there are many ways to pick up on your alignment, I thought it was worth throwing on the pile.

You would be paoed into something with a low enough duration that you could morph back on your own after some time elapsed. Without even going outside of the examples listed in the spell text, "human to marionette" only lasts 3 hours so is definitely a safe choice. Just have your ally or hired spellcaster cast your auras at the end.

Minor change shape/wild shape do nothing to trump scent.

Zhentarim spy's deep cover covers everything. Vecna-blooded on top of it is not necessary unless you wanted to benefit from other stuff it gave you.

Remember you need to be able to cast 2nd level or higher arcane spells to qualify for vecna-blooded and aren't allowed to use chameleon's arcane focus to qualify for stuff, so you will need this elsewhere.

7 is a perfectly acceptable breakpoint for momf. There are precious few diminutive monsters and the ones that exist are primarily useful for scouting, which tiny ones are just as good for. There are almost no gargantuan monsters that'll be in your hd cap, elemental is of questionable usefulness without most of their su abilities, and ooze kind of sucks. Dragon is obtainable with dragon wild shape if you really want it (useful for bottomless change shape through gold dragon, if you're interested in stacking bonuses to your disguise skill)

Divine minion 100% works by raw. Some gms just choose not to allow it.

Whether momf or wild shape is more important depends wholly on how interested in either you are. I took 7 levels and then went back into chameleon and didn't feel like i was missing out on anything. It's really a question of how much bookkeeping you want to do with spells and monsters.

[Doctor Despair]

Yeah, perfect reflection's nice if you can afford it. Same as you listing all these options to change alignment, I don't assume you have all of them up at the same time, so I figured I'd just list as many options as I could think of and if this is for a specific build, you could pick what was useful. I don't expect you to take all these feats.


Oh, absolutely; I'm sure the most optimal strategy will change, too, depending on the level most gameplay will be conducted at.



Yeah, ring of counterspelling does only trigger on those, so it would be useful for ones targeting you. Since there are many ways to pick up on your alignment, I thought it was worth throwing on the pile.

For sure, it's a great option there; I was expressing concerns more wrt Discern Shapeshifter, as it's a personal spell. Cloak of Khyber might arguably work, and God Blooded of Vecna grants immunity, but as most people won't have this active (and those who are going to persistomancy will probably use true seeing instead...), it probably won't be an issue. At the end of the day, Deep Cover will prevent the "sensing" of our nature when they see our true form, and our mundane disguise will hopefully be high enough that they don't see anything notable anyway.



You would be paoed into something with a low enough duration that you could morph back on your own after some time elapsed. Without even going outside of the examples listed in the spell text, "human to marionette" only lasts 3 hours so is definitely a safe choice. Just have your ally or hired spellcaster cast your auras at the end.

I was looking at "manticore to pebble" as the standard duration, but I completely overlooked "human to marionette!" Egg on my face there.



Zhentarim spy's deep cover covers everything. Vecna-blooded on top of it is not necessary unless you wanted to benefit from other stuff it gave you.

Remember you need to be able to cast 2nd level or higher arcane spells to qualify for vecna-blooded and aren't allowed to use chameleon's arcane focus to qualify for stuff, so you will need this elsewhere.

Fair enough; I'd overlooked that rule. With that said, it looks like we don't need God Blooded anyway, thankfully. It's such a powerful template, but the flavor of it always irked me. I never feel like I know how to roleplay it properly, so I end up just ignoring the fluff as repressed memories, haha.



7 is a perfectly acceptable breakpoint for momf. There are precious few diminutive monsters and the ones that exist are primarily useful for scouting, which tiny ones are just as good for. There are almost no gargantuan monsters that'll be in your hd cap, elemental is of questionable usefulness without most of their su abilities, and ooze kind of sucks. Dragon is obtainable with dragon wild shape if you really want it (useful for bottomless change shape through gold dragon, if you're interested in stacking bonuses to your disguise skill)...

...Whether momf or wild shape is more important depends wholly on how interested in either you are. I took 7 levels and then went back into chameleon and didn't feel like i was missing out on anything. It's really a question of how much bookkeeping you want to do with spells and monsters.

Oh, MoMF 7 is absolutely a fine time to break away from the class -- I was moreso concerned about not having 20 base class levels or 10 prc levels upon reaching level 20, as that means this character wouldn't be eligible for epic bonus feat progression for a few more levels. It's a minor quibble, but it makes me a little sad.



Divine minion 100% works by raw. Some gms just choose not to allow it.

It's probably not worth getting into the debate, but MoMF requires "Special: Wild shape class feature," so while the template does let you wild shape, it is a feature granted by a template (not a class) called "Fast Wild Shape". It's definitely arguable that it doesn't satisfy the requirement, as the class doesn't ask for the ability to wildshape, but rather the "wild shape class feature."

With that said, I do recognize that using the template to qualify isn't entirely unsupported by RAW; it does grant the ability to wild shape as an 11th level druid. It can be argued that this pseudo-qualifies for MoMF. When I said I wasn't convinced it worked by RAW, I meant I wasn't convinced it was settled RAW (in the same way that it is settled RAW that a character can take Toughness at level 1).

Using Divine Minion does reduce the class level requirement we're dealing with and makes a lot more room for PrCs; we could do something like Half-Elf Paragon 1/Human Paragon 2/MoMF 2/Chameleon 2/Zhentarim Spy 5, then go either MoMF 8 or Chameleon 8 depending on our preference. That's an advantage for both elegance and the speed with which our disguise begins to foil magical means of detection.

With that said, it also has some roleplay requirements. They are "Fanatical followers of their patron, divine minions serve as messengers and enforce the god's will on Faerûn, sacrificing their lives to do so if necessary... A cleric of the Mulhorandi pantheon who knows the correct prayers can use summon monster V to summon a 6th-level divine minion, or he can use an appropriate planar ally spell to call one of a desired level." I suppose there's technically no fall mechanic to revoke the template, so one could start as a fanatical follower and, for some reason or another, lose faith. Unless the deities in question decide to come after you, having a nigh-impenetrable disguise would be valuable for avoiding capture, then. Summon Monster doesn't get a specific creature, but Planar Ally can allow your deity to drop you directly in front of the enemy. That is problematic... but Racial Emulation might be helpful in that regard. As long as we are disguised as a humanoid, we will count as a member of their race for all effects (and not an outsider or elemental), so we may be immune to the calling.

I do really like how neatly the class level breakdown fits using Divine Minion... Maybe I ought to include it in the final construction. Such a character couldn't be undead (nixing my use of Necropolitan), but Zhentarim Spy will buff our will save anyway (and eventually protect us from the divinations we'd normally want immunity from).



Minor change shape/wild shape do nothing to trump scent.

Let's take a closer look here; we'd ideally need to find a way to have a false scent, as of the person we're disguised as, rather than just mask our scent. Wild shape functions as alternate form, which means that when wild shaped "The creature is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its new form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise." It doesn't specifically mention smell or scent, so perhaps that doesn't do it.

Changelings' racial ability allows them to alter their appearance "as though using a disguise self spell that affects their bodies but not their possessions. This ability is not an illusory effect but a minor physical alteration of a changeling's facial features, skin color and texture, and size, within the limits described for the spell." Disguise self specifies that it allows you to look different, and specifies that "The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form, nor does it alter the perceived tactile (touch) or audible (sound) properties of you or your equipment." It doesn't specifically mention smell, but as it then went on to list qualities it does not change, that is, perhaps, a little more debatable as to whether it masks your scent. With that said, let's rule it out for the time being and continue searching for a more certain method to gain a false scent.

Neither of those were completely satisfying, so let's look at the Scent ability itself for options.

This extraordinary ability lets a creature detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell.

A creature with the scent ability can detect opponents by sense of smell, generally within 30 feet. If the opponent is upwind, the range is 60 feet. If it is downwind, the range is 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at three times these ranges.

The creature detects another creature’s presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If it moves within 5 feet of the scent’s source, the creature can pinpoint that source.

A creature with the Track feat and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10. The DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Track feat. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.

Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.

Water, particularly running water, ruins a trail for air-breathing creatures. Water-breathing creatures that have the scent ability, however, can use it in the water easily.

False, powerful odors can easily mask other scents. The presence of such an odor completely spoils the ability to properly detect or identify creatures, and the base Survival DC to track becomes 20 rather than 10.

OK, so one option would be to stay 61 feet away from any creature with the scent ability, which isn't very reliable. Anything that masks our scent or makes us impossible to track might render it useless, but as I said above, a non-ping where a ping is expected can raise suspicion.

It says that creatures with the scent ability can recognize familiar odors as humans do familiar sights. This suggests that scent, for this purpose, works as spot for determining whether an odor is familiar, except as noted otherwise. A disguise check may allow a character to mask their scent then, presumably used in conjunction with some item that would allow them to disguise their scent (maybe some ointments in a disguise kit, for example).

On the subject of disguising our scent, at the tail end of the scent ability is a line providing a way to entirely foil it -- covering ourselves with a false scent that is more powerful than our current scent (presumably by at least 1%). If we were to craft a perfume or cologne with the other character's scent on it, we should be able to auto-disguise ourselves from the scenter's nose that way. That presumably requires us to either use some sort of divination or, more reliable, have smelled the scent of our mark beforehand. Chameleon can grant us the scent feat as needed to verify it, so this is a RAW-supported method.

Less RAW-supported is the ability to craft perfumes. A complex or superior item has a craft DC of 20, so that might be most appropriate for an unlisted item. It would probably under under craft (alchemy), I'd think, right? Regardless, if a disguise kit won't let you make a "scent disguise," this seems like a better method to hide from scent.

Alternatively, we could remove the scent entirely by masking it with a stronger one. Covering ourselves with a strong smell of soap would probably be enough for most humanoids, as we could bluff about why we wanted to be clean in that moment. Depending on the disguise, we might be able to use other substances, such as mud, dung, oil, alcohol, etc. I would imagine this is the sort of thing that would be encompassed using the "disguise check" method to hide from scent (using rough materials here for lower checks, or fine-tuning it to more subtle scents with higher checks).

Failing ALL of that, there's always Pass Without a Trace or, if that isn't available for some reason, Remove Scent (although this is much, much worse unless it's persisted).

So we have a somewhat workable build that doesn't have epic progression, and one with epic progression, but neither that use Spymaster.

Without using retraining/temporary hitdie shenanigans, we only have 15 levels after level 5 to fit in our PrCs, as we can't take Chameleon or Spymaster before level 6. As we need 7 levels of Spymaster, that means Chameleon can't be our 10-level prc. With that said, we need at least one level of Chameleon to get the appropriate type of casting to register with Vatic Gaze. With 9 levels accounted for there, and one accounted for with Half-Elf Paragon, that means we'd have to take Master of Many Forms from level 2 to advance.

We need Able Learner at level 1 to qualify for Chameleon, and we can get Alertness from an Ioun Stone, but not with level 1 WBL. I don't know about any templates that would give us the Endurance feat apart from Half-Undead (Gheden), and that's Dragon Magazine, which we've managed to avoid so far. However, as I don't know of any other option for it, let's go with that for now. Setting aside the fact that it gives penalties to charisma, int, and a huge penalty to skills that require fine motor control (and how that probably includes Disguise...), that gets us Endurance, but not Alertness. We don't have another feat... I think this dead-ends us unless we allow flaws, let Changelings outside the Eberron Campaign Setting take Able Learner, use the Races of Destiny variant to give all humanoids the human subtype (qualifying Changelings for Able Learner), or ditch Chameleon entirely.

If we do one of these variant rules, we could skip the Paragon level, take sorcerer, wizard, or psion at 1 for a familiar, and use our level 1 feat for Able Learner, take the template for Endurance, take Divine Minion for Wildshape, and enter MoMF at level 2. Our build could look like...

Psion 1 / MoMF 4 / Chameleon 2 / Spymaster 7 / MoMF 6

Without using variant rules, we'd have to ditch Chameleon entirely to fit in all the Spymaster levels, but that also means we don't need to worry about using Dragon material anymore.

[Venger]

Glad you've found my advice helpful.

As far as scent goes, a good general rule to adhere to is that spells/effects/etc do not give you extra stuff that is not in the spell text. None of the things you've described mention that they allow you to change your scent to the scent of the person you're impersonating, therefore, they don't allow you to do this.

There is precedent for things that allow you to do this, such as major image, it's just not part of minor change shape, wild shape, etc.

There are no rules for perfume making so while balance-wise, it certainly seems reasonable, this is pure homebrew/ask your gm territory.

If you don't want to be detected via scent, just take darkstalker, and bad guys can't smell you at all, so won't notice that you smell different than the person whose identity you've stolen.

If you don't want to use divine minion, don't use divine minion, but there is nothing barring one from being undead. Again, wild shape is keyed off alternate form in 3.5, not polymorph, so it can be used normally by nonliving characters.

[Doctor Despair]

As far as scent goes, a good general rule to adhere to is that spells/effects/etc do not give you extra stuff that is not in the spell text. None of the things you've described mention that they allow you to change your scent to the scent of the person you're impersonating, therefore, they don't allow you to do this.

There is precedent for things that allow you to do this, such as major image, it's just not part of minor change shape, wild shape, etc.

Fair, I suppose.



There are no rules for perfume making so while balance-wise, it certainly seems reasonable, this is pure homebrew/ask your gm territory.

Fair enough on the craft, although applying a lot of soap, mud, dung, blood, or some other strong-smelling substance to mask your scent should be fair game, right? After all, "False, powerful odors can easily mask other scents. The presence of such an odor completely spoils the ability to properly detect or identify creatures."



If you don't want to be detected via scent, just take darkstalker, and bad guys can't smell you at all, so won't notice that you smell different than the person whose identity you've stolen.

Darkstalker states that creatures with scent need to make spot checks to notice you when you hide. If they notice you (because you are presumably focused on disguise, not hiding, so want to be seen and not recognized), they should recognize you. Additionally, we can't hide in plain sight, so we can't just take 1 on hide checks most of the time unless we gain that ability somewhere else.

Edit: Pass Without a Trace should work for this though. For 9,840, you can get 12 eternal wands to get all-day coverage. Boots of Tracklessness do it for 11,000. Sandals of the Light Step do it for 9,000. Scentblinder does it for 8,000. Gwaeron's Boots do it for 6,000.



If you don't want to use divine minion, don't use divine minion, but there is nothing barring one from being undead. Again, wild shape is keyed off alternate form in 3.5, not polymorph, so it can be used normally by nonliving characters.

I suppose divine minions don't have the fall mechanic that druids do, but they are also outsiders, so the most accessible method to become undead (Necropolitan) is not applicable. I suppose there's nothing preventing a divine minion from taking the vampire or lich template or something, but the LA for those are a little crippling for most builds.

Edit: Although... Racial Emulation should allow you to qualify for Necropolitan. I'd completely overlooked that. My bad!

[Venger]

Fair enough on the craft, although applying a lot of soap, mud, dung, blood, or some other strong-smelling substance to mask your scent should be fair game, right? After all, "False, powerful odors can easily mask other scents. The presence of such an odor completely spoils the ability to properly detect or identify creatures."
Sure, but your gm might be well within their rights to impose circumstance penalties on things like diplomacy if you literally smell like excrement.

Also, this does certainly mask your natural scent, but it does not replicate the scent of the person you're impersonating, which was the point I was making.

[Doctor Despair]

Sure, but your gm might be well within their rights to impose circumstance penalties on things like diplomacy if you literally smell like excrement.

Also, this does certainly mask your natural scent, but it does not replicate the scent of the person you're impersonating, which was the point I was making.

Oh, for sure; I'd imagine soap would be the go-to for most scent-based disguising here, coupled with a bluff, as most humanoids probably won't balk too much at the idea of someone wanting to be clean for some reason.

With that said, with regard to spells to recreate a specific smell... Veil, Retributive Image, and Major Image seem to be the only ones that can create specific smells that I see offhand. All three allow will saves.

Major Image can create illusions as of Silent Image that include other elements (like smell). We could create a figment of the smell. It lasts for concentration + 3 rounds, so we're spending actions on it every turn, and detect magic lights up like a christmas tree around us. Not ideal.

Retributive Image works as Major Image, but is mind-affecting and deals damage to those that disbelieve it, so reveals us more easily. Worse.

Veil is a level 4 spell from a Thayan Slaver, so can technically fit in a wand, but not an eternal wand. It lasts for 7 hours + concentration, so two casts should get you through the day if you concentrate for a while to add to it a little; if it runs out, you'll have to settle for smelling of soap. It also gives a +10 to your disguise check. This would probably be the best option out of the three. Available at a steep 21,000 for a consumable item that you'll use up with a conservative 25 days (assuming you don't just concentrate forever until distracted/damaged to stretch it out).

Edit:

Maybe... by a very generous reading, Prestidigitation can soil something. As you're creating the filth, that might allow you to create a scent of your choice. Prestidigitation can't duplicate other spell effects, but as I'm discovering, there is no other spell effect that effectively creates a false scent. It would last for 1 hour, so 2 hours uptime on an eternal wand, but hopefully 2 hours of having a specific scent should be enough to convince any scenters (especially if you use soap in front of them to mask the scent from prestidigitation). 460 gold, so available from level 2.

Edit:

I suppose an easier method would be to, once disguised for all but the scent, walk into their place of residence and get some things that smell like them. This probably doesn't work with Pass Without a Trace, but might work with soap, assuming you wash off the soap before donning their things. Problematically, their scent would eventually fade from their things, but by that time hopefully people who recognize their familiar scent would acclimate to your scent as they slowly transitioned over.

[Doctor Despair]

For my own reference, here's a build table for what seems to be the optimal version so far:



ECL/Level
Class
Feats
New Combat Features
New Disguise Features


2/1
Humanoid Hitdie
Racial Emulation
N/A
The build starts as a Changeling with 1 Humanoid hitdie and the Racial Emulation feat. Then, upon becoming an adventurer, the Changeling exchanges the hitdie for its first class level, using Racial Emulation to qualify, and using Racial Emulation to qualify for Able Learner. We start as a fanatical follower of Nepthys, but something happens that leaves us jaded. There's no fall mechanic for Divine Minion, but we live in disguise from then on in case clerics or paladins of our deity take issue with our lack of loyalty.


2/1
Half-Elf Paragon
Racial Emulation, Able Learner
Wildshape combat (Nephthys)
Racial Emulation has us count as our humanoid disguise for all purposes. +10 to disguise checks. Add on a disguise kit for another +2. We can afford copious amounts of soap to hide our scent, and bluff about why we smell so strongly of soap.


3/2
Human Paragon
-
-
We can now have 5 ranks in bluff, so we get a +2 to our disguise through the synergy. Disguise is now a class skill, so we can have it at max (net bonus 19 + attribute).


4/3
Human Paragon
Endurance, Alertness
-
We can afford Lead-Lined (CS) Chameleoweave (MoE) Vestment of Many Styles (RoE) for 610g, so that's +3 to our disguise (net 23 + attribute). We can use our Magic Aura SLA to make it appear nonmagical.

If level-adjustment is in use, we could buy off our level adjustment here. We use Racial Emulation to qualify for the Ritual of Crucumigration for a further 3000g, reducing us to level 2 and swapping our first two HD for d12s. Our type changes from Outsider to Undead, but we register as the humanoid we are disguised as to all effects.

At this point, if gameplay begins at ECL3 or later, we can begin play with the Evolved Undead template by aging our character up a century or so, helping to compensate for our lack of a con score; however, as Divine Minion grants wildshape at will as a free action, we can heal ourselves up regardless (technically infinitely, although a reasonable DM might institute a reading that although you can use the ability at will (which normally refers to uses), you are still limited to 4 uses/day (as of an 11th level druid), although of course you can stay in a form indefinitely. In the case of this reading, Evolved is still a valuable coping mechanism.).

Upon reaching level 3, we will take the same Human Paragon level, so we then proceed along the build stub from here.


5/4
Master of Many Forms
-
Humanoid combat forms! Notably, the Stingtail Asabi at large size.
As we are now using our wildshape to assume the shape of the humanoid we are disguised as, we should be able to add another 10 to our check (net 34 + attribute). We are immune to mind-affecting abilities, which includes many effects that detect lies.


6/5
Master of Many Forms
-
Giant forms! Unless we're disguised as a Stingtail Asabi, we'll want to wildshape into a medium giant like the Least Dusk Giant or Forest Troll.
If we wildshape into the right humanoid, we hit 35 here, or 25 if wearing a giant under our humanoid disguise.


7/6
Chameleon
?
0/1st/2nd level spells!
We now ping as the appropriate type of spellcaster to Vatic Gaze and Arcane Sight. We can use Misrepresent Alignment to ping as the appropriate type of alignment, although that raises questions with detect magic. We can also afford a Ring of Mind Shielding to protect our alignment; we can hide the ring under our lead-lined clothes to continue to hide from detect magic. While we won't ping to detect evil (and can remove the ring to ping to detect evil if we want), we still won't ping to detect good or detect law/chaos (unless we are, indeed, chaotic, in which case we could take off the ring). Prepare to bluff!


8/7
Chameleon
-
Floating feat!
Floating feat! We can grab Mask of Gentility to disguise ourselves as neutral if, for some reason, there is a character that can detect neutrality. We can also use it to qualify for Z-Spy later.


9/8
Chameleon
-
Mimic Class Feature 1/day, and we get access to 3rds!
Mimic Class Feature 1/day. We have access to Cloak of Khyber, but while that masks our alignment and conceals our true form, it also pings as an illusion to detect magic for now; we've managed to hide from detect magic so far, and we won't stop now. We can also use Moral Facade to disguise our alignment. This is an abjuration, so also pings to detect magic, but might be easier to bluff about, but is probably best avoided.


10/9
Chameleon
?
Ability boon!
Ability boon!


11/10
Zhentarim Spy
-
-
Bonuses to disguise from Cover Identity.


12/11
Zhentarim Spy
-
Sneak attack
Undetectable alignment that doesn't ping to detect magic, so we can sell off the ring. Still somewhat problematic, but will be solved in 3 levels.


13/12
Zhentarim Spy
?
Poison use
Even more bonuses to disguise from Unlikely Cover!


14/13
Zhentarim Spy
-
Sneak attack, slippery mind
Not much going at this level, but it comes before the big one.


15/14
Zhentarim Spy
-
-
Deep cover offers us disguise to all divination when in certain cover identities. Retrain the cover identity slots to change the disguise (which takes a long time, but this is a powerful effect!) Thoughts, alignment, and emotions ping through; divinations fail to detect any other information, which should allow us to finally rest easy from Detect Magic's reign of terror. Just think: even up to ECL10 (the earliest you can reach this capstone), detect magic would foil the disguise of any disguised person with the audacity to use a spell for their disguise (such as to hide their alignment) instead of an item hidden behind lead-lined clothing. Heaven forbid someone with Arcane Sight (available with permanency) tries to assess their casting ability! Technically this means we no longer need Racial Emulation, but that will come in handy if we need to briefly disguise ourselves as a non-cover-identity on the spot; additionally, it buffs our disguise check, and we haven't retrained anything yet, so we may as well commit to not doing it now.


16/15
Chameleon
?
Aptitude Focus 2/day, 4ths!
Aptitude Focus 2/day


17/16
Chameleon
-
Mimic Class Feature 2/day
Mimic Class Feature 2/day


18/17
Chameleon
-
Double aptitude lets us fill multiple roles, and 5ths!
Double aptitude lets us disguise as multiclass characters more easily


19/18
Chameleon
?
-
Rapid Refocus


20/19
Chameleon
-
Mimic Class Feature 3/day, and 6ths!
Mimic Class Feature 3/day. We also get access to Veil and, unless Prestidigitation is ruled to allow us to create scents, and unless we can use Disguise to create a scent, this is the earliest we can carry a recreated scent around with us without stealing some of our mark's belongings to cover our own scent.


21/20
Chameleon
-
Aptitude Focus 3/day
Aptitude Focus 3/day

[Doctor Despair]

Reserved for more build stubs for various versions of a disguise-focused character


2. No Divine Minion? Half-Elf Paragon 1 / W. Ranger 5 / MoMF 1 / Chameleon 2 / Z. Spy 5 / MoMF 7

3. No Divine Minion, but epic progression? Half-Elf Paragon 1 / Full BAB 4 / Chameleon 2 / Z. Spy 5 / Chameleon 8

4. Wanna lose to Vatic Gaze when disguised as non-caster, but keep wildshape and epic progression? Wildshape Ranger 5 / MoMF 1 / Z. Spy 5 / MoMF 9

5. With Lycanthropy BAB-early-entry tomfoolery... Half-Elf Paragon 1 / Human Paragon 2 / Z. Spy 5 / Chameleon 10 / Uncanny Trickster 2

6. Using Lycanthropy max-rank-early-entry tomfoolery... Half-Elf Paragon 1 / Human Paragon 2 / Spymaster 7 / Chameleon 10

[Zarvistic]

The epic Bluff options might help too. Afaik they can be used by non-epic characters if they can make the DCs.

[Venger]

Yeah, as long as you hit the dcs you can use them. You don't need to be an epic character.