Geas/Quest and Planar Binding

[gogogome]

A recent thread reminded me of this trick.

You planar bind a creature.
You cast Geas/Quest on it and use telepathy to communicate the instructions.
The instructions are to accept the next contract given to it as long as its not kill itself or perform acts that would result in certain death.
Which means the creature intentionally fails its opposed charisma check and accepts whatever deal the binder demands even if the task is to serve him for 500 years.

[Crake]

A recent thread reminded me of this trick.

You planar bind a creature.
You cast Geas/Quest on it and use telepathy to communicate the instructions.
The instructions are to accept the next contract given to it as long as its not kill itself or perform acts that would result in certain death.
Which means the creature intentionally fails its opposed charisma check and accepts whatever deal the binder demands even if the task is to serve him for 500 years.

Keep in mind:

"If you assign some open-ended task that the creature cannot complete though its own actions the spell remains in effect for a maximum of one day per caster level, and the creature gains an immediate chance to break free."

"Serve me for 500 years" is pretty open ended, and doesn't allow the creature to complete the task through it's own actions, so it would only be compelled to serve for 1 day/CL.

[Zanos]

I believe there's an example of a creature that is actually bound to serve by a single planar binding spell for hundreds of years in Tome of Magic.

[Crake]

I believe there's an example of a creature that is actually bound to serve by a single planar binding spell for hundreds of years in Tome of Magic.

Binds can certainly last hundreds, if not thousands of years, if the task is sufficiently grand, and the capability of completing the task is in the hands of the one being bound. You could task a fiend with crumbling a mountain, and that could take a century, but since the task itself is not open ended (it has a set goal) and completing the goal is entirely within the fiend's power, the 1 day/CL limit is not invoked, and thus the fiend needs to carry out the task to completion, regardless of how long it takes.

[newguydude1]

Binds can certainly last hundreds, if not thousands of years, if the task is sufficiently grand, and the capability of completing the task is in the hands of the one being bound. You could task a fiend with crumbling a mountain, and that could take a century, but since the task itself is not open ended (it has a set goal) and completing the goal is entirely within the fiend's power, the 1 day/CL limit is not invoked, and thus the fiend needs to carry out the task to completion, regardless of how long it takes.

tome of magic has a balor who was forced to serve as a torturer for 500 years via a greater planar binding.

[Doctor Despair]

Binds can certainly last hundreds, if not thousands of years, if the task is sufficiently grand, and the capability of completing the task is in the hands of the one being bound. You could task a fiend with crumbling a mountain, and that could take a century, but since the task itself is not open ended (it has a set goal) and completing the goal is entirely within the fiend's power, the 1 day/CL limit is not invoked, and thus the fiend needs to carry out the task to completion, regardless of how long it takes.

"Obey the next 10,000 commands I give you."

Then, on command 9,990 or so...

"Stand in that spot, unmoving, and take no actions unless directed for the next hour. Accept the next contract given to you as long as it's not to kill yourself or perform acts that would result in certain death."

Rince and repeat.

[Crake]

"Obey the next 10,000 commands I give you."

Then, on command 9,990 or so...

"Stand in that spot, unmoving, and take no actions unless directed for the next hour. Accept the next contract given to you as long as it's not to kill yourself or perform acts that would result in certain death."

Rince and repeat.

That is again, open ended (you can give any command you like), and not something the fiend can complete through their own actions (they have to wait for you to give them commands).


tome of magic has a balor who was forced to serve as a torturer for 500 years via a greater planar binding.

Looking into it, it does say a "carefully negotiated" binding. Just because the outcome is serving as torturer for 500 years, doesn't mean the deal was "Serve as a torturer for 500 years". It may have been "Torture my billion slaves", which will take well over 500 years, but it's still something that the balor can complete through it's own actions, and has a set end point (so, not open ended).

[Segev]

To address the opening post, while it might be limited to CL days, I think Geas could force the fiend to accept the binding. Of course, the fiend is still going to have a save and any spell resistance against the Geas, so this isn’t a guarantee of anything.

[Crake]

To address the opening post, while it might be limited to CL days, I think Geas could force the fiend to accept the binding. Of course, the fiend is still going to have a save and any spell resistance against the Geas, so this isn’t a guarantee of anything.

Geas/quest offers no save, though SR does apply.

[newguydude1]

Geas/quest offers no save, though SR does apply.

and the sr can be eliminated with supernatural spell. or true casting and assay resistance.

[blackwindbears]

I believe there's an example of a creature that is actually bound to serve by a single planar binding spell for hundreds of years in Tome of Magic.

Frankly, I think the author just ignored the relevant text.

If someone said a cleverly worded wish rather than cleverly worded planar binding you wouldn't expect PC's to be able to replicate it.

[blackwindbears]

I believe there's an example of a creature that is actually bound to serve by a single planar binding spell for hundreds of years in Tome of Magic.

Frankly, I think the author just ignored the relevant text.

If someone said a cleverly worded wish rather than cleverly worded planar binding you wouldn't expect PC's to be able to replicate it.

[Segev]

Frankly, I think the author just ignored the relevant text.

If someone said a cleverly worded wish rather than cleverly worded planar binding you wouldn't expect PC's to be able to replicate it.

There's also the possibility that the fiend liked the task and thus agreed to stay on past the limit.

[Crake]

There's also the possibility that the fiend liked the task and thus agreed to stay on past the limit.

Nah, it specifically goes on to say that the fiend resents the binding and does what he can to screw over the pactmaker

[newguydude1]

raw is raw. in d&d 3.5 "serve me for 100 years" is not an open ended task.

[Crake]

raw is raw. in d&d 3.5 "serve me for 100 years" is not an open ended task.

Which raw are you going by that says "Serve me for 100 years" is not open ended?

And even if it isn't open ended, it doesn't meet the clause "can complete through it's own actions", as nothing the bound creature does can work toward it's completion.

[blackwindbears]

raw is raw. in d&d 3.5 "serve me for 100 years" is not an open ended task.

Looking to another book written by a different author making assumptions about the context that you don't actually have any information on might be an argument for RAI, but it's about the furthest thing from RAW I can think of that isn't just, "I think it'd be cool if..."