What is the laziest path to power?

[Conradine]

I was reading that entry on Television Tropes...


https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnEqualRites


Is that true?
Making a pact with a fiend and become a Warlock is easier than being a Wizard or a Sorcerer?
In short, what is the class which requires the least effort and dedication to advance?

[Rebel7284]

The laziest path to power is capitalism. Set up a pyramid scheme big enough and you can roleplay being an epic caster as a commoner 1 with all the rings of three wishes, etc.

[tiercel]

In terms of advancement, I’d have to say that Cleric and Druid certainly have one significant spellcasting advantage: free access to every single spell on their class list on any given day.

How much they are actually on the hook to the powers granting their spells or relevant organizations, when applicable, can depend on the particular DM and campaign, of course. (In my own experience, not very much.)

[Falontani]

Is that true?
Making a pact with a fiend and become a Warlock is easier than being a Wizard or a Sorcerer?
In short, what is the class which requires the least effort and dedication to advance?

See, here is the thing. Sorcerers are born with a spark of power, that they can nurture, train, and grow into a massive amount of power.
Wizards do not have that inborn spark of power, and must spend years of their life studying to reach the point that sorcerers are born with, and then they too nurture, train, research, and grow that power into a massive amount of power.
Warlocks go with an easier alternative to the wizard, but a still very complicated and difficult road to go down. They must make a pact with some otherworldly denizen, usually a devil, for that spark of power. They are then given a spark that is usually larger than the spark the sorcerer starts with, but then have to grow their spark as well. After the warlock's final passing the warlock returns the spark that they have grown through so much pain and effort back to complete their pact.

You want to know who really doesn't deserve their power? Favored Souls. Favored Souls are chosen at birth to wield power. They don't have to go through the arduous amounts of faith and blind worship that the cleric does, they just have their magic, and will it into being. Divine magic is way easier than arcane magic to use. Both arcane and divine have components, they both have Verbal which is an incantation. This could be as simple as speaking the spell's name aloud, to as difficult as exceedingly difficult lengthy and precise words. It is never directly given what the verbal component is. Next we have the somatic component. This is very different for an arcane user and a divine user, as an arcane user has Arcane Spell Failure to contend with. The rational behind Arcane Spell Failure is that the somatic (arm wavies, or hand moving, etc) is more precise and harder to do with limited maneuverability. This conversely means, that a divine spellcaster who does not suffer arcane spell failure, has much simpler somatic components. Something that can be done easily enough in even Mountain Plate or Mechanus Gear. Next component up is the Material component. Both arcane and divine have material components, but more arcane spells have material components that are usually more complex than divine material components. Finally we get to the Focus. While there is a focus required for relatively few spells on both sides, usually inexpensive arcane foci are still multiple different items, while inexpensive divine foci are usually as simple as the holy symbol of your deity.

My personal headcanon is the following:
Arcane verbal components when it isn't Language Dependent are more complex often involving different languages such as Ignan, Auran, Draconic, Terran, etc.
Arcane users have more difficult somatic components, usually waving about of the arms, or precise hand/finger wiggles.
Arcane users require more material components in order to use their magic.
Arcane users require more specialized foci.
Divine verbal components are usually as simple as a prayer spoken aloud, sometimes in celestial, infernal, or abyssal.
Divine somatic components are usually simple hand placement, or at most some horizontal and vertical motions of the arms.
Divine material components are relatively rare, and usually common.
Divine foci is usually as simple as a wooden carving of their holy symbol.

So Favored Soul has it the easiest when trying to become a powerful spellcaster.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

In terms of advancement, I’d have to say that Cleric and Druid certainly have one significant spellcasting advantage: free access to every single spell on their class list on any given day.

How much they are actually on the hook to the powers granting their spells or relevant organizations, when applicable, can depend on the particular DM and campaign, of course. (In my own experience, not very much.)They require worship, reverence, and effort, though.

Now, sorcerers, on the other hand, were born with their power, and they automatically know everything they can do, somehow having the knowledge that dancing the Macarena while singing "I'm a Little Teapot," and throwing bat poo will somehow conjure evocationate a fireball spell.

Of course, that requires sorcerers to gather bat poo, as well as all the effort it takes to dance and sing like a moron.

Wilders, though, just get really mad and frowny-face the world into submission and become extra powerful through the power of sulking. In fact, they don't need to do the frowny-face thing, since their powers don't require any somatic components; it just tends to happen regardless. No study, no dancing or singing, and no running around collecting random types of poo to throw at enemies. Oh, and no throwing poo, either, or worrying about procuring a holy symbol. They were just born "special" (in both senses of the word). Granted, psions are vastly superior in pretty much every way, since wilders are basically an NPC class, but you said "laziest," not "best."

[AvatarVecna]

Sqcrifice rules let you get wish-loops started if you can nail a DC 50 check, amd there's explicit ways to get huge bonuses to that check.

[Tvtyrant]

I was reading that entry on Television Tropes...


https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnEqualRites


Is that true?
Making a pact with a fiend and become a Warlock is easier than being a Wizard or a Sorcerer?
In short, what is the class which requires the least effort and dedication to advance?

Binders are canonically suppressed because binding is so easy anyone can do it. It also barely has down sides, giving cheap, easy magic to the population.

[The Viscount]

Remember that in 3.5 Warlocks are just as often, if not more commonly, warlocks because of inherited power rather than deals, just like sorcerers. That's 0 effort. As for who has it easier between them, I would argue warlock still has it easier since they don't have to learn spells or even expend the mental energy to count how many slots they have. Their invocations are all at will, and durations are typically 24 hours, so there's no keeping track of those, either.

[TheCount]

obligatory Pun-Pun mention.

That aside, Luck. after all, if you are at the right place at the right time, you can get free stuff.

[Gruftzwerg]

obligatory Pun-Pun mention.

That aside, Luck. after all, if you are at the right place at the right time, you can get free stuff.


Remember that in 3.5 Warlocks are just as often, if not more commonly, warlocks because of inherited power rather than deals, just like sorcerers. That's 0 effort. As for who has it easier between them, I would argue warlock still has it easier since they don't have to learn spells or even expend the mental energy to count how many slots they have. Their invocations are all at will, and durations are typically 24 hours, so there's no keeping track of those, either.

All I wanted to say have been said ... QQ

but I could add to warlock...
Since we talk about lazy, I would say craftlock (warlock 12/chameleon 2). At lvl 14 you can start to craft scrolls of 9th lvl and even epic spells if your UMD score is high enough. Cheat WBL and craft your way into nirvana. Don't forget to pick up Scupt Self (with the floating feat) and abuse it together with a toughtbottle to give you all kinds of cool extra abilities.

Just wait till my Orochimaru build is finished..^^ he will show you the laziest way to power xD

edit: since we already have pun-pun I would like to add my BoBaFeat build who is on he same power lvl (just needs entire 20lvls to get that far compared to pun pun who can do it starting from lvl 1..^^).

[Sutr]

Have your parents talk about divine mandates be born. Maybe marry an adventurer. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/aristocrat.htm

[Quertus]

Be born a god?

[Gnaeus]

In PF, witch. Spend an hour a day playing with your pet.

PF + official third party updates of 3.5? Daevic (desire). Spend an hour a day communing with your daeva by engaging in an act related to “carnal pursuits”.

[Segev]

Seconding Wilder and recommending going into Thrallherd. Takes some careful building, but that can be done without the character knowing it was “hard.” And now he also has flocks of believers telling him how great he is and how hard he works while rushing to do everything for him.

[Particle_Man]

Perhaps dragonfire adept deserves a mention? Like warlock but neither you nor your ancestors need to make a pact.

I guess it also depends on what level of power vs. effort one is going for. I mean barbarians and totemists don’t even need to learn how to read! Even commoners can read.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Perhaps dragonfire adept deserves a mention? Like warlock but neither you nor your ancestors need to make a pact.

I guess it also depends on what level of power vs. effort one is going for. I mean barbarians and totemists don’t even need to learn how to read! Even commoners can read.I can see a barbarian being like Victor Tugelbend, who put more effort into being lazy than most people ever do into working.

Gotta get those muscles somehow, and it's worth being able to bench press a Buick if you can avoid having to exercise your brain a bit, I guess. After all, the brain is the most calorie-intensive organ in the whole body by more than an order of magnitude, IIRC.

[InvisibleBison]

How do you define power? Because it seems to me that the absolute lowest-effort way to gain power is to inherit a bunch of powerful magical items, which requires exactly zero effort. It's not generally a viable method for a PC, though.

[KillianHawkeye]

How do you define power? Because it seems to me that the absolute lowest-effort way to gain power is to inherit a bunch of powerful magical items, which requires exactly zero effort. It's not generally a viable method for a PC, though.

Much like IRL, being born rich is always a good way to go. :smallsigh:

[Epic Legand]

I think what needs to be defined is how are you defining power and easy. My guy works nonstop 24-7. There with one line I now have 100% effort...but zero real effort on my part. Vs " I was born with that"...which to the in game character, is a huge difference...but to us, is zero difference. "Power", to a commoner, a $1,000 GP is immeasurable wealth, to a PC is nothing. a top end warlock is nothing compared to a top end cleric or wizard. That warlock needs to then spend tons of time building stuff to start competing with the wizard, and at the end of it, both of them spend more effort then the cleric.
Is this a measure of the PC's effort, or the characters? Is this a measure of power vs other player characters? Or a measure of power in the setting? Without those terms being defined, you can't have a discussion.

[KillianHawkeye]

I think we can all agree that the easiest path to power probably isn't the path to the most power imaginable. So at that point, we're left with doing a cost/benefit analysis on how much power we can get versus the amount of effort it takes.

[mabriss lethe]

Incarnum is pretty low effort.

[Quertus]

I think we can all agree that the easiest path to power probably isn't the path to the most power imaginable.

I dunno, I think "being born a deity" could be a contender on both counts…

[The Viscount]

Is there any lore for deities that were born deities?

[Falontani]

Is there any lore for deities that were born deities?

I mean an Atropal (EPH) is pretty darned close.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I'm gonna say Mountebank (Dragon Compendium). Literally all their power comes from a fiend, to the point that when they get enough of that power they become permanently under its control and turn into an NPC. That suggests even less personal investment into their powers than Warlocks, Wilders, and Favored Souls. OTOH, they're also much weaker than any of those classes, so their effort:power ratio might not actually be lower.

[Telonius]

I was reading that entry on Television Tropes...


https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnEqualRites


Is that true?
Making a pact with a fiend and become a Warlock is easier than being a Wizard or a Sorcerer?
In short, what is the class which requires the least effort and dedication to advance?

Laziest path: Rite of Crucimigration. Become a Necropolitan. Find a nice place to chill. Do nothing for a few million years, gaining the Evolved Undead template as many times as you want. You now have an arbitrarily high Strength, Charisma, Natural Armor, and a gigantic number of SLAs per day. (Find a way to get Scintillating Scales to make the Natural Armor help out in all circumstances).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Laziest path: Rite of Crucimigration. Become a Necropolitan. Find a nice place to chill. Do nothing for a few million years, gaining the Evolved Undead template as many times as you want. You now have an arbitrarily high Strength, Charisma, Natural Armor, and a gigantic number of SLAs per day. (Find a way to get Scintillating Scales to make the Natural Armor help out in all circumstances).Put yourself into mental suspended animation (there are ways and ways) to keep from going insane, and keep your body in a fast-time demiplane. If the time dilation is high enough, you won't even have to stop adventuring for more than a few hours for the millions of years you did it.

[Psyren]

If we define "path" as something the character can choose to pursue in-universe, rather than being a product of heritage or providence, then a lot of the suggestions here stop working - including sorcery, being born a deity, being chosen by a witch patron, or even having an ancestral warlock pact in place to the current day.

If we restrict it further to something the character can pursue and have a decent shot of succeeding at, that narrows the band even more. Psionics and wizardry are technically disciplines anyone can follow, much in the same way that anyone can technically become a neurosurgeon or astrophysicist, but in practical terms, very few people do. Even Incarnum, considered a simpler form of magic, has issues of obscurity and its (living) practitioners needing to be uncommonly hale and hearty.

That leaves things like divine magic and binding. The former is easy enough at a game table - just pray at a certain time each day and make sure your adventuring goals line up with the ethos of your object of worship - but in-universe piety is much more complicated as you have to observe rites, holy days, make offerings regularly and the like.

All of that is a long-winded way for me to vote for Binding in the spirit with which I feel the question was asked.

[noob]

Pretend to be a fighter then follow a party of wizards then get your share of the loot for mysterious reasons and then use the money to solve problems as if you were a full caster.

[newguydude1]

In terms of advancement, I’d have to say that Cleric and Druid certainly have one significant spellcasting advantage: free access to every single spell on their class list on any given day.

How much they are actually on the hook to the powers granting their spells or relevant organizations, when applicable, can depend on the particular DM and campaign, of course. (In my own experience, not very much.)

clerics and druids have strict codes of conduct and rituals and crap they need to deal with or lose everything forever.



the easiest path to power is just grab two feats: obtain familiar and improved familiar. then select mirror mephit at level 7.

so pick bard. you dont need to be born lucky. you dont need to study. just sing sing sing and you become a god.

[noob]

so pick bard. you dont need to be born lucky. you dont need to study. just sing sing sing and you become a god.

You need to study a whole lot to do good music or humour or tragedy or whatever perform you will use.
Singing well is hard.
Even if the kind of performance you want to use is "easy to do" the fact you need ranks just to be an average bard means you need lots of training.
However if you are good at being a bard you do not just get any power: you get one of the most desired powers, the power of making yourself popular.

[Psyren]

You need to study a whole lot to do good music or humour or tragedy or whatever perform you will use.
Singing well is hard.

I mean... technically you don't have to sing well to be a bard at all :smalltongue: put zero ranks in Perform, 10 Cha etc.

[noob]

I mean... technically you don't have to sing well to be a bard at all :smalltongue: put zero ranks in Perform, 10 Cha etc.

but then you do not get power either.

[newguydude1]

You need to study a whole lot to do good music or humour or tragedy or whatever perform you will use.
Singing well is hard.
Even if the kind of performance you want to use is "easy to do" the fact you need ranks just to be an average bard means you need lots of training.
However if you are good at being a bard you do not just get any power: you get one of the most desired powers, the power of making yourself popular.

that kind of "studying" is a different kind of studying.
practicing your own artistic talent at home and "studying" other artsy people and trying to figure out why you like their performance
vs
needing to compete with other geniuses for a scholarship issued by the state to get you the education under a wizard professor with access to a full library of knowledge hoarded across the centuries and planes.

[noob]

that kind of "studying" is a different kind of studying.
practicing your own artistic talent at home and "studying" other artsy people and trying to figure out why you like their performance
vs
needing to compete with other geniuses for a scholarship issued by the state to get you the education under a wizard professor with access to a full library of knowledge hoarded across the centuries and planes.

Still it is not lazy to practice the craft of music it just means you had the luck to like doing music but it still is a huge investment if you want to be good at music.
While going and selling your soul to X in exchange for power does not need a lot of time investment (it requires a lot of courage however because most creatures to which you can sell your soul are scary).

[newguydude1]

Still it is not lazy to practice the craft of music it just means you had the luck to like doing music but it still is a huge investment if you want to be good at music.
While going and selling your soul to X in exchange for power does not need a lot of time investment (it requires a lot of courage however because most creatures to which you can sell your soul are scary).

practicing invocations is just as hard as getting good at singing.

except

you dont need to be lucky and born near a demon that you could bargain with. so bard is easier than warlock. because its environment and npc independent.

[noob]

practicing invocations is just as hard as getting good at singing.

except

you dont need to be lucky and born near a demon that you could bargain with. so bard is easier than warlock. because its environment and npc independent.

Nowhere does it say you have to practice invocations.
Unlike for skills which have rules(that are optional) that indicates increasing skill ranks takes time.
Furthermore if your bard does not use music you need charisma to use spells and not everybody have charisma.
While warlock does not have stat requirement suggesting that invocations does not needs any sort of understanding: with only ones as stats you could use EB and the invocations just fine.
Also lazyness is not the same thing as ease.
There is things that are easy to do that are not lazy at all because it takes long amounts of time.

As for bards being environment and npc independent I can hardly see you gain levels while in a featureless plain with nobody to interact with.

[newguydude1]

Nowhere does it say you have to practice invocations.
Unlike for skills which have rules(that are optional) that indicates increasing skill ranks takes time.
Furthermore if your bard does not use music you need charisma to use spells and not everybody have charisma.
While warlock does not have stat requirement suggesting that invocations does not needs any sort of understanding: with only ones as stats you could use EB and the invocations just fine.
Also lazyness is not the same thing as ease.
There is things that are easy to do that are not lazy at all because it takes long amounts of time.

warlocks must adhere to all adventurer rules too. mainly they endlessly practice their craft during downtime and must train everyday or their skills will wane.

ranged attack rolls dont happen magically. only adventurer level of practice and training can use range attack rolls as good as the stat blocks says.

read bard description. they gain magic through performing vocally. the difference between a commoner and a bard is just music. charisma is just an indication of how strong the bards personality is.

[noob]

warlocks must adhere to all adventurer rules too. mainly they endlessly practice their craft during downtime and must train everyday or their skills will wane.

ranged attack rolls dont happen magically. only adventurer level of practice and training can use range attack rolls as good as the stat blocks says.

read bard description. they gain magic through performing vocally. the difference between a commoner and a bard is just music. charisma is just an indication of how strong the bards personality is.

A bard with 9 charisma literally can not cast bard spells.
Also I have never seen a rule saying adventurers practice their craft in their down time: can you show the rule text?
A warlock could still use their abilities fine with a _ in int, con, dex, str and 1 wisdom and 1 charisma so it is arguably way easier to do invocations than bardic spellcasting.
But in terms of lazyness what you have told is basically that any class based way to power lacks lazyness because in your words " all adventurer rules too. mainly they endlessly practice their craft during downtime and must train everyday or their skills will wane."
Meaning that a path to power that involves classes is not lazy according to your invented rule(unless you can show me the paragraph in the manuals).

[newguydude1]

A bard with 9 charisma literally can not cast bard spells.
Also I have never seen a rule saying adventurers practice their craft in their down time: can you show the rule text?
A warlock could still use their abilities fine with a _ in int, con, dex, str and 1 wisdom and 1 charisma so it is arguably way easier to do invocations than bardic spellcasting.

offset by the fact that you need to find a demon that doesnt splatter you on sight. thats harder than getting a scholarship for a wizard apprenticeship.

rule text is somewhere i dont know. its background activity. i think its in the same place that says wizards need to experiment with spells everyday with random minor material components as background activity.

[noob]

offset by the fact that you need to find a demon that doesnt splatter you on sight. thats harder than getting a scholarship for a wizard apprenticeship.

rule text is somewhere i dont know. its background activity. i think its in the same place that says wizards need to experiment with spells everyday with random minor material components as background activity.

If you can not find out where it is written it might be something gm invented.
Also if demons are too dangerous try devils.

but anyway if what you wrote is true then it means the laziest path to power is to not get class levels but instead get enough money from whichever opportunity you have to then get power.
Or maybe worship sloth: this way the training to get closer to your ideal and be a better cleric is to sit around doing nothing productive.

[newguydude1]

If you can not find out where it is written it might be something gm invented.
Also if demons are too dangerous try devils.

but anyway if what you wrote is true then it means the laziest path to power is to not get class levels but instead get enough money from whichever opportunity you have to then get power.
Or maybe worship sloth: this way the training to get closer to your ideal and be a better cleric is to sit around doing nothing productive.

closest i could find is p.197 on dmg where it says researching and training aren't part of the standard rules. theyre assumed to be going on in the background.

devils demons same thing. your dm has to gift wrap a demon devil on a silver platter to you for you to have access to warlock class. bard doesnt. therefore bard is easier.



we need to set some guidelines.
laziest and easiest path to power is a god just turning you into a god because he or she likes you. the end.
or being born as an abomination.

in other words, some other super entity does 100% of the work for you.

so obviously theres no point in discussing if we allow super entities to do everything for you.
otherwise pazuzu pazuzu pazuzu.

so if we are talking about the self made man to power, imo something that is least dependent on environment or luck, and requires the least amount of hardwork, is the goal.
imo thats a bard.

[Efrate]

Mentioned upthread but binder. Draw a thing in dirt. Fail binding check who cares, still have power, just grow horns occasionally and be irritable or have a weird bit of OCD. A bad pact is still a pact. You literally just need a copy of the sign in most cases and maybe a name. No practice, no contacting fiends of any stripe, just enough literacy to read a name and copy what you see. Exceptions exist but its likely the simplest way.

[newguydude1]

Mentioned upthread but binder. Draw a thing in dirt. Fail binding check who cares, still have power, just grow horns occasionally and be irritable or have a weird bit of OCD. A bad pact is still a pact. You literally just need a copy of the sign in most cases and maybe a name. No practice, no contacting fiends of any stripe, just enough literacy to read a name and copy what you see. Exceptions exist but its likely the simplest way.

how strong can a binder get? cause with the mirror mephit a bard can be tier 1. is there a similar shenanigan that binders can do to get tier 1 power?

[noob]

closest i could find is p.197 on dmg where it says researching and training aren't part of the standard rules. theyre assumed to be going on in the background.

devils demons same thing. your dm has to gift wrap a demon devil on a silver platter to you for you to have access to warlock class. bard doesnt. therefore bard is easier.



we need to set some guidelines.
laziest and easiest path to power is a god just turning you into a god because he or she likes you. the end.
or being born as an abomination.

in other words, some other super entity does 100% of the work for you.

so obviously theres no point in discussing if we allow super entities to do everything for you.
otherwise pazuzu pazuzu pazuzu.

so if we are talking about the self made man to power, imo something that is least dependent on environment or luck, and requires the least amount of hardwork, is the goal.
imo thats a bard.
bards are environment dependant: you can not gain xp from nothing.
Since you decided that asking for help is forbidden most bard musics are really bad at low level: it is mostly support which is pointless if you have no party so you would be stronger being a barbarian with 1 to all stats than a bard with 1 to all stats.

You can not assume you will magically have a party if you assume that even a devil would not want to associate with you.

[newguydude1]

bards are environment dependant: you can not gain xp from nothing.
Since you decided that asking for help is forbidden most bard musics are really bad at low level: it is mostly support which is pointless if you have no party so you would be better off being a barbarian with 1 to all stats than a bard with 1 to all stats.

theres acfs that give bard an animal companion at full druid level. from there you can get more abusive. i was working on a bard that uses metamagic reducers to get fell animate up by level 3 for a zombie army. just an example.

i think a bard with 1 to all stats can take a barbarian with 1 to all stats. animal companion is strong and expendable.

[noob]

theres acfs that give bard an animal companion at full druid level. from there you can get more abusive. i was working on a bard that uses metamagic reducers to get fell animate up by level 3 for a zombie army. just an example.

i think a bard with 1 to all stats can take a barbarian with 1 to all stats. animal companion is strong and expendable.

What is the proof you will meet an animal and not be eaten by it before you turn it into an animal compagnion?
It does not make sense to say you can not find a devil and not get killed by it but that somehow you can find a strong animal and not get killed by it.
Also your bard will never use metamagics because metamagics needs the ability to cast spells to be used which is not possible with 1 charisma as a bard: you will need a lot of levels and stat increases to get enough charisma.

[newguydude1]

What is the proof you will meet an animal and not be eaten by it before you turn it into an animal compagnion?
It does not make sense to say you can not find a devil and not get killed by it but that somehow you can find a strong animal and not get killed by it.
Also your bard will never use metamagics because metamagics needs the ability to cast spells to be used which is not possible with 1 charisma as a bard.

you get animal companion by doing a 24 hour ritual. upon summon its your bff. you dont go hunting for one.

[noob]

you get animal companion by doing a 24 hour ritual. upon summon its your bff. you dont go hunting for one.

24 uninterrupted hours of prayer.
You were not lazy if you were willing to pray for a straight 24h.
I mean I would not be able to pray straight for 24 hours without going to the toilets or eating or sleeping or having attention lapses and you will only find some people able to do that and those people are also the kind of people willing to work overtime for their jobs.
You have proven your bard was incredibly unlazy that way.

[bean illus]

I agree that spontaneous casters seem a lazy (or lucky) path to power.

Favored Soul / Sorcerer / Mystic Theurge

With early entry, and zero prc, you cast at 9/6? Not bad for a natural gift.

[Cavir]

Lazy? Be a dragon. Have enough food (Ring of Sustenance) and avoid being killed, then you can sleep away all the time you want (centuries!) while continually but slowly gaining power for doing nothing but staying alive. You could use other planes to speed things up, but that's not on the path for those who seek True Laziness.

[Psyren]

but then you do not get power either.

I was specifically basing this on newguy's "Obtain Familiar + Mirror Mephit" trick, which IIRC doesn't require any kind of talent with performing.

[noob]

I was specifically basing this on newguy's "Obtain Familiar + Mirror Mephit" trick, which IIRC doesn't require any kind of talent with performing.

but needs you to gain enough caster levels to have the improved familiar feat so you either have the luck of being born with tons of flaws or a few hundred gp and use them to boost your cl or you will need levels.

[Efrate]

Binders get tier 2 with zycrell alone if they (ab)use it properly. Anima Mage gives free metamagic if you pick up casting.

[GrayDeath]

Seconding Wilder and recommending going into Thrallherd. Takes some careful building, but that can be done without the character knowing it was “hard.” And now he also has flocks of believers telling him how great he is and how hard he works while rushing to do everything for him.


Lazy? Be a dragon. Have enough food (Ring of Sustenance) and avoid being killed, then you can sleep away all the time you want (centuries!) while continually but slowly gaining power for doing nothing but staying alive. You could use other planes to speed things up, but that's not on the path for those who seek True Laziness.

Sooo, a Dragon Wilder/Thrallherd is the obvious solutiuon for near 0 effort, near top results in 2 areas?

Heck, you can add a few binder levels if by some accident you ahve too much XP left.^^