Optimization Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVII [Archive]

The Viscount

2020-11-21, 01:01 AM

Welcome to Optimization Stadium, the field of combat for our storied competition. Here the contestants will be transmuting lead into gold as we showcase the overlooked, underused, weird, wild, and wonky prestige classes.

This round we turn to Drow of the Underdark. American Thanksgiving is approaching, so check out this turkey! Tent your fingers and practice your evil laugh, it's time for Insidious Corruptor!

Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D 3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

Contestants: You will need to present a full 20-level build for your entry. Also required is a rundown of how your build works at lower levels, to demonstrate that it is a functional character that could be played from 1-20 in a real game. Traditionally contestants give "snapshots" of tactics and abilities at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20. The purpose of these snapshots is not just to showcase your use of the SI, it is to demonstrate that your character is playable at every level. For this reason, it's still worth giving a snapshot before you have entered the SI.

Menu: The "special ingredient" can be drawn from any legal source. Originally, the plan was to mostly use Core and Completes, but that was a long time ago, and we've started running out of interesting classes to use if we restrict ourselves to those.

32 point-buy is the presumed creation method.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Here's a guide to most of what has and hasn't been updated. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050110x) Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.
NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.

Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 02:00 GMT on Monday, December 7th, 2020 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, The Viscount. You may submit build by email if it is too large for a single PM. Please put the name of your build in the subject line of your PM. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 13:59 GMT on Sunday, December 20th, 2020 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept.Please note the following: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using conflicting setting material may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.NAME OF ENTRY

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

Code immediately below (spoiler).

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

Code immediately below (spoiler)Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.

So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM. If there are no votes, Honorable Mention will go to the chairman's favorite build.

Past Competitions

Courtesy of some wonderful volunteers, there is a handy-dandy spreadsheet guide to all previous builds here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oyjVU5JmeCnC8YTMqDArDqE5PszHl0Ysadz630kuTGk/edit?ts=59a4835f#gid=0).

Iron Chef I: Entropomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142470)
Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146583)
Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148584)
Iron Chef IV: Stonelord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150595)
Iron Chef V: War Chanter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152543)
Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156876)
Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158633)
Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160266)
Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162702)
Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164381)
Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166539)
Iron Chef XII: War Mind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9426386)
Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172233)
Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174434)
Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176049)
Iron Chef XVI: Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178202)
Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182492)
Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186097)
Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190607)
Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10976416)
Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198921)
Iron Chef XXII: Dervish (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206576)
Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210071)
Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214198)
Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217441)
Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220956)
Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224008)
Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227304)
Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229688)
Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233346)
Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236908)
Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239786)
Iron Chef XXXIII: Drow Judicator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243052)
Iron Chef XXXIV: Dragon Disciple (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246072)
Iron Chef XXXV: Death Delver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249542)
Iron Chef XXXVI: Acolyte of the Skin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252923)
Iron Chef XXXVII: Justiciar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13865473)
Iron Chef XXXVIII: Hand of the Winged Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255215)
Iron Chef XXXIX: Renegade Mastermaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260333)
Iron Chef XL: Nightsong Infiltrator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263173)
Iron Chef XLI: Geomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266709)
Iron Chef XLII: Shadowblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270196)
Iron Chef XLIII: Bladesinger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274122)
Iron Chef XLIV: Urban Soul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279116)
Iron Chef XLV: Talon of Tiamat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15216595)
Iron Chef XLVI: Cipher Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287314)
Iron Chef XLVII: Cold Iron Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291294)
Iron Chef XLVIII: Shadow Sun Ninja (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297327)
Iron Chef XLIX: Thrall of Orcus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302487)
Iron Chef L: Corrupt Avenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307823)
Iron Chef LI: Black Flame Zealot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312773)
Iron Chef LII: Anointed Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317934)
Iron Chef LIII: Zerth Cenobite (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325164)
Iron Chef LIV: Osteomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330890)
Iron Chef LV: Mountebank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?336373-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LV)
Iron Chef LVI: Dwarven Defender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342807-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVI)
Iron Chef LVII: Darkrunner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?349040-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVII)
Iron Chef LVIII: Spellsword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?357412-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVIII)
Iron Chef LIX: Fleet Runner of Ehlonna (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?364667-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LIX)
Iron Chef LX: Lasher (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?371835-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LX)
Iron Chef LX(II): Acolyte of the Ego (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?372145-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LX)
Iron Chef LXII: Dungeon Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376810-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXII)
Iron Chef LXIII: Witchborn Binder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?382632-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIII)
Iron Chef LXIV: Slime Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387166-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIV)
Iron Chef LXV: Thunder Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?394981-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXV)
Iron Chef LXVI: Dwarven Chanter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400810-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXVI)
Irogn Chef LXVII: Gnome Giant Slayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?406613-Irogn-Chef-Optimisatiogn-Challegnge-ign-the-Playgrougnd-LXVII)
Iron Chef LXVIII: Fang of Lolth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?412530-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXVIII)
Iron Chef LXIX: Shiba Protector (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?420165-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIX)
Iron Chef LXX: Order of the Bow Initiate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?425634-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXX)
Iron Chef LXXI: Silver Key (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?431484-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXI)
Iron Chef LXXII: Spellfire Channeler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?439020-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXII)
Iron Chef LXXIII: Flux Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448596-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIII)
Iron Chef LXXIV: Crinti Shadow Marauder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?458711-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIV)
Iron Chef LXXV: Thief of Life (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472831-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXV)
Iron Chef LXXVI: Legacy Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?477153-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXVI)
Iron Chef LXXVII: Great Rift Skyguard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?482249-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXVII)
Iron Chef LXVIII: Risen Martyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?487560-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXVIII)
Iron Chef LXXIX: Black Blood Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?492923-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIX)
Iron Chef LXXX: Master of Many Forms (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?498359-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXX)
Iron Chef LXXXI: Serene Guardian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502666-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXI)
Iron Chef LXXXII: Elocator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?505762-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXII)
Iron Chef LXXXIII: Winterhaunt of Iboorighu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?510581-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXIII)
Iron Chef LXXXIV: Waverider (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514631-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXIV)
Iron Chef LXXXV: Astral Dancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?519296-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXV)
Iron Chef LXXXVI: Twisted Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?525401-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXVI)
Iron Chef LXXXVII: Shadowsmith (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?528361-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXVII)
Iron Chef LXXXVIII: Arboreal Guardian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?533367-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXVIII)
Iron Chef LXXXIX: Thrall of Demogorgon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?536247-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXXIX)
Iron Chef XC: Bloodstorm Blade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?542380-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XC)
Iron Chef XCI: Fatemaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?550203-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCI)
Iron Chef XCII: Eye of the Xanathar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?556092-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCII)
Iron Chef XCIII: Hoardstealer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?560330-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCIII)
Iron Chef XCIV: Doomlord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?564804-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCIV)
Iron Chef XCV: Gnomish Artificer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?571065-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCV)
Iron Chef XCVI: Oozemaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?576075-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCVI)
Iron Chef XCVII: Aerial Avenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?579553-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCVII)
Iron Chef XCVIII: Visionary Seeker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?583331-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCVIII)
Iron Chef XCIX: Life Eater (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?589964-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XCIX)
Iron Chef C: Swiftblade (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?601292-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-C)

Iron Chef CI: Night Mask Deathbringer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?610308-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CI)
Iron Chef CII: Blade Dancer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?613031-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CII)
Iron Chef CIII: Psion Uncarnate (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?614461-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CIII)
Iron Chef CIV: Atavist (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?615697-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CIV)
Iron Chev CV: Primeval (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?618136-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CV)
Iron Chef CVI: Disciple of Mammon (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?620730-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CVI)

The Viscount

2020-11-21, 01:03 AM

FAQ:
Q: What's this even about?
A: I'm glad you asked, actually... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15415117&postcount=1)

Q: Is Dragon Compendium Allowed?
A: Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

Q: What about 3.0 materials?
A: 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

Q: Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources?
A: The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

Q: What about online sources in general?
A: If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

Q: Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. In a similar vein, LA buyoff and fractional BAB are also disallowed. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

Q: What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean?
A: As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

Q: What's the minimum score in a category?
A: Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirement for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

Q: Creatures and templates with no listed LA are playable, right?
A: No. No listed LA is equivalent to LA: -. It is not suitable for PCs. If you use it, expect judges to look extremely disfavorably on it.

Q: So what's the deal with equipment, anyway?
A: There is no official policy on how much equipment you should list. Historically, judges have frowned upon "item dependent" builds, but unfortunately the definition of that has been applied to mean anything from builds that don't function if you remove one very specific item, to builds that so much as mention a particular weapon. Builds that don't list gear should be assumed to buy useful generics - items to boost their primary stats, cloaks of resistance, appropriate magical weapons and armor, and so forth. If a build would find particular items useful, they should be listed, but experience suggests that the more generic you keep them, the more favorably judges are likely to look upon them, as a build being shut down because the Thundering Bagpipes of Urist McTrumpetbritches were unavailable is considered a weakness. Similarly, requiring items in order to be able to qualify for things tends to be frowned upon.

Q: Do you have any other rules and guidelines on how to judge?
A: We do, actually, designed to try and avoid unpleasantness we've encountered in past contests. The things we've come up with to avoid repeating this are given below.

One Mistake, One Penalty

Judges are only allowed to penalise once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.

Non-exhaustive list of examples:

Skills

Allowed:

Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs

Not allowed:

Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation

Prereqs

Allowed:

Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
Giving minimum score in UotSI for not qualifying for the SI
Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalising for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)

Not Allowed:

"Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes

Other general things that are no longer allowed:

Penalizing because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalize if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.

Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.

Q: Do you have any contest house rules or clarifications to ambiguous rules?
A: Some that have come up in previous contests and needed answers to:

All creatures are proficient with any natural weapons they may have or acquire.
Bonus feats that are granted even if you do not meet the prerequisites do not require you to meet the prerequisites in order to use.
Able Learner's benefit applies to the level you take it.
Weapons from soulmelds are considered to be magic weapons.
Unarmed Swordsage grants Improved Unarmed Strike at level 1.
Not finishing Savage Progression is subject to a penalty to Elegance
One dispute per entry. Submit disputes by PM to the Chair.
Ghostwalk ghost is banned
Gold, silver, and bronze are awarded regardless of ties (e.g., 2 silvers does not preclude bronze)
Spelltouched feats are legal and can be taken just like any other feat when you meet the prerequisites and have the feat slot available.

Q: Can I submit more than one entry?
A: You may submit up to two entries into a given competition.

Q: Does Lesser Drow count for qualification purposes?
A: Yes. I'm not so cruel as to insist everyone take the +2 LA. Half drow is also acceptable.

Venger

2020-11-21, 01:06 AM

Oh no, not this.

I'm in to cook.

WhamBamSam

2020-11-21, 10:14 AM

I have at least one idea for this that I’m happy with after the usual significant struggling with the SI finding new and exciting ways to be frustrating.

H_H_F_F

2020-11-21, 10:41 AM

I have 2 ideas. One doesn't really work, the other feels kind of obvious and boring. We'll see.

nosborm

2020-11-21, 11:08 AM

I've been patiently refreshing the forums for days waiting for this moment. I love it, I hate it, I have no ideas but I'm definitely in and I'll be sure to fully flesh out my build this time. Excited to take a crack at optimizing a caster.

Heavenblade

2020-11-21, 11:28 AM

Yasss
Iv'e been waiting FOREVER for a reason to mess with this class.

Zaq

2020-11-21, 01:17 PM

This is... hmmmm.

Half-casting is kind of the elephant in the room, but at least it seems to sorta-kinda hold together thematically, and at least it's not unreasonably stingy with use limits. The bottleneck is actions, not daily uses.

Those prereqs are deceptively terrible. Which is to be expected, really.

I will definitely have to spend time thinking about this one.

Zaq

2020-11-21, 04:37 PM

ExLibrisMortis

2020-11-21, 05:16 PM

Swift Enchantment (Ex): Starting at 5th level, as an immediate action you can release a subject under the effect of claws of influence to cast an enchantment spell as a swift action.
Wait what?

This class is stupid and badly written. No ideas yet, but I'll try to build something.

H_H_F_F

2020-11-21, 05:38 PM

Rules of the competition question: does the able learner house-rule (works for the level it's taken) apply to other feats that affect skill points, class skills, etc?

KrimsonNekros

2020-11-21, 07:59 PM

Blast it Viscount, you got my hopes up for minute when I saw we were pulling from DotU. Oh well got an idea or two floating around.

The Viscount

2020-11-21, 09:42 PM

Questions!

When you gain additional claws of influence targets at 3/6/9, does that affect the number of targets you can affect with a single action, or do you have to spend a separate standard action on each?

After using probe thoughts, does the target get a save against the confusion effect (since confusion the spell offers a save), or no? Similarly, does minion offer a save if you aren't directly opposing the target's nature?

Greater manipulation is a supernatural ability without a listed action, but it seems that it's intended to be similar to manipulation, which is an immediate. Are we treating it as a standard or an immediate?

I'll be generous. Claws of influence can affect multiple targets with a single action up to your limit.

There is no save against the confusion effect from probe thoughts.

Greater manipulation is an immediate action.

Wait what?

This class is stupid and badly written. No ideas yet, but I'll try to build something.

Since as written that feature literally doesn't work, I'm going to fix it. When you release the target, you can cast an enchantment spell as a free action. You can call it Free Enchantment now if you want.

Rules of the competition question: does the able learner house-rule (works for the level it's taken) apply to other feats that affect skill points, class skills, etc?

Yes.

Blast it Viscount, you got my hopes up for minute when I saw we were pulling from DotU. Oh well got an idea or two floating around.

There other classes from the book that are on my list. Their day will come.

PoeticallyPsyco

2020-11-21, 09:47 PM

Huh. I've actually got an idea for this. Gonna have to make sure I'm remembering the relevant rules correctly...

EDIT: Nope, I was misremembering.

Zaq

2020-11-22, 12:46 PM

I'll be generous. Claws of influence can affect multiple targets with a single action up to your limit.

So if we keep spending actions, is there a limit to how many creatures can be under claws of influence simultaneously? I just want to be clear that we're on the same page and making the same assumptions.

The claws of influence ability only references number of targets in these two sentences: "at 1st level you can affect one target at a time. At 3rd level and every three levels thereafter, you gain an additional target." So if we're interpreting "affect one target at a time" to mean "affect one target as a standard action" and then "gain an additional target" as "affect additional creatures, simultaneously, all with the same standard action," there's no limit in the text saying that a 1st-level insidious corruptor couldn't affect target A on turn 1, target B on turn 2, target C on turn 3, and so on, as long as they all stay in range and the insidious corruptor keeps spending actions. Is this interpretation correct?

The Viscount

2020-11-22, 01:10 PM

So if we keep spending actions, is there a limit to how many creatures can be under claws of influence simultaneously? I just want to be clear that we're on the same page and making the same assumptions.

The claws of influence ability only references number of targets in these two sentences: "at 1st level you can affect one target at a time. At 3rd level and every three levels thereafter, you gain an additional target." So if we're interpreting "affect one target at a time" to mean "affect one target as a standard action" and then "gain an additional target" as "affect additional creatures, simultaneously, all with the same standard action," there's no limit in the text saying that a 1st-level insidious corruptor couldn't affect target A on turn 1, target B on turn 2, target C on turn 3, and so on, as long as they all stay in range and the insidious corruptor keeps spending actions. Is this interpretation correct?

No. the limit is the limit for both how many creatures you can affect at once and the limit for how many creatures you can have under your thrall.

Zaq

2020-11-22, 01:15 PM

Thanks, Chief!

Sian

2020-11-22, 01:32 PM

i got a good (if somewhat bland and viable to vizzini'ed) idea, and a fun idea ... but I'm not quite able to make the fun one work atm ... lets see if it carries me somewhere

Thurbane

2020-11-22, 04:43 PM

Never looked at this class before. What a hot mess. I guess if it were more than 5/10 it could be an interesting PrC. I'll have to see if I come up with any inspiration for a build.

PoeticallyPsyco

2020-11-22, 06:29 PM

I actually kind of like this class.

H_H_F_F

2020-11-22, 07:12 PM

I kept fiddling with my ideas. I think I found a couple of ways to make the boring entry slightly less boring. The not-boring one somewhat sucks, but that's life. I might end up submitting both, or neither. We'll see. Either way, I'm not judging again this round. Do we have any volunteers?

Very interesting class, that's for sure.

Piggy Knowles

2020-11-22, 08:17 PM

Interesting. Got an inkling of a build, though knowing me I'll scrap and rewrite it a dozen times for nothing remotely resembling a good reason.

A couple of questions for the chair, though...

Swift Enchantment (Ex): Starting at 5th level, as an immediate action you can release a subject under the effect of claws of influence to cast an enchantment spell as a swift action.

Irresistible Charm (Ex): At 6th level, as a swift action you can release a subject under the effect of claws of influence to increase the save DC of the next enchantment (charm) spell you cast by an amount equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum +1).

Irresistible Compulsion (Ex): At 9th level, as a swift action you can release a subject under the effect of claws of influence to increase the save DC of the next enchantment (compulsion) spell you cast by an amount equal to your Charisma modifier minimum +1).

Do these abilities solely work with spells, or would they also allow you to reduce the casting time or increase the DC of an appropriate spell-like ability or supernatural ability?

The Viscount

2020-11-22, 08:25 PM

They would also work on SLAs or Supernatural abilities, but only ones that are clearly based on enchantment or enchantment (charm/compulsion) spells or considered enchantment or enchantment (charm/compulsion) effects.

H_H_F_F

2020-11-23, 05:02 PM

I think I'm going to submit both my entries, if I manage to. This always happens to me - the longer an idea rolls around in my head, the more I like it. I'll be very surprised if any of them place (unless we'll have a very small field this round) but I've come to believe their at least worth your time and mine.

How is everybody else doing?

Thurbane

2020-11-24, 04:14 PM

Either way, I'm not judging again this round. Do we have any volunteers?

IF I don't enter, and IF I have the time IRL, I may judge.

As it stands I'm working on a pretty "plain vanilla" entry - if I can spice it up a bit, I'm hoping to enter. Although sometimes a straightforward entry does surprisingly well, as people often Vizzini themselves out of these entries.

Hiro Quester

2020-11-24, 06:28 PM

Oh wow. there are some very specific abilities in this class. Improving your skill checks on abilities (like diplomacy and bluff) that you can rack up sky-high checks on in many other ways. I'm intrigued and disturbed.

I have a bizarre idea I hope I can make work (and make time to flesh out). that idea does not depend on the following, but these seem like they need further clarification:

They would also work on SLAs or Supernatural abilities, but only ones that are clearly based on enchantment or enchantment (compulsion) spells or considered enchantment or enchantment (compulsion) effects.

Does this mean you could release a creature from your claws of influence, to increase the DC of the next claws of influence (a Supernatural ability) you use?

And can you use Irresistible Charm to release three creatures under our claws of influence, for +3(xCHA bonus) DC to your next enchantment? The Irresistible Charm rule says "you can release a subject under the effect of claws of influence", while others rules specify "a single creature under the effect of claws of influence".

The Viscount

2020-11-24, 10:01 PM

Oh wow. there are some very specific abilities in this class. Improving your skill checks on abilities (like diplomacy and bluff) that you can rack up sky-high checks on in many other ways. I'm intrigued and disturbed.

I have a bizarre idea I hope I can make work (and make time to flesh out). that idea does not depend on the following, but these seem like they need further clarification:

Does this mean you could release a creature from your claws of influence, to increase the DC of the next claws of influence (a Supernatural ability) you use?

And can you use Irresistible Charm to release three creatures under our claws of influence, for +3(xCHA bonus) DC to your next enchantment? The Irresistible Charm rule says "you can release a subject under the effect of claws of influence", while others rules specify "a single creature under the effect of claws of influence".

You cannot release a creature to increase the DC of the next claws of influence, because it is not an enchantment (charm) or an enchantment (compulsion) effect.

You cannot release multiple creatures to get multiple bonus for irresistible charm/compulsion.
There are 2 reasons. Firstly, you aren't normally capable of taking more than one swift action per turn, and since the action is to release "a subject" which still denotes a single creature, you would need one per creature. Secondly and more importantly, this would be an instance of same bonus source, and bonuses from the same source do not stack.

nosborm

2020-11-25, 11:05 AM

Although sometimes a straightforward entry does surprisingly well, as people often Vizzini themselves out of these entries.

OK, I'm still very new and have seen this thrown around a few times but I'm not quite certain what it means to 'Vizzini one's self'. Somewhere I can go look this up? Best I can come up with is that people overthink their builds like Vizzini in Princess Bride but I was thinking maybe there was a classic build or post somewhere? I'm slightly worried I am committing this fallacy but it's part of what I enjoy about character building. Thanks again for all the help and encouragement everyone, I plan to submit at least one build again this time!

Zaq

2020-11-25, 11:07 AM

I have one skeleton almost entirely done aside from the gritty details on the skills (and, of course, the write-up). It's... not embarrassing, but to be honest it's not quite as crazy as I usually go for. The core components are pretty solidly locked in, though, so I think I'm just going to have to play it out.

I'm toying with the idea of a second build that gets somewhat kookier, but it hasn't solidly coalesced yet. I feel like I'm missing one key component (and I'm not sure what that key component is yet) to give it a real hook. But I'll keep tinkering with it and see if I can get something to pop.

I think this is going to be a good round, though! The ingredient's hard to use, but it's hard to use in a good and satisfying way. Its class features are actually good! They just kind of go sideways compared to what you give up, and that's a more interesting challenge than "well, none of these abilities actually do anything in the first place." Kudos on the pick, Viscount!

Piggy Knowles

2020-11-25, 11:47 AM

OK, I'm still very new and have seen this thrown around a few times but I'm not quite certain what it means to 'Vizzini one's self'. Somewhere I can go look this up? Best I can come up with is that people overthink their builds like Vizzini in Princess Bride but I was thinking maybe there was a classic build or post somewhere? I'm slightly worried I am committing this fallacy but it's part of what I enjoy about character building. Thanks again for all the help and encouragement everyone, I plan to submit at least one build again this time!

Nope, you got the reference perfectly! Basically a long time ago someone compared the process of trying to guess and second-guess whether or not someone else would submit the same thing to the famous scene involving Vizzini and the poison, and it stuck.

These competitions tend to prompt a lot of very Vizzini-esque thought processes:

“Oh, wow, this entry is just crying out for a rogue entry!”
“Hm, but everyone’s going to do a rogue, it’s obviously the most expected. But hey, swordsage actually gets almost all the same benefits! That could be a cool alternative.”
“But wait, everyone’s going to jump to the swordsage option to avoid rogue. Better think of something else. Maybe avoid the skill-focused entries altogether. Aha! But a zhentarim fighter works out nicely, and who would expect that!”
(Five iterations later…)
“OK, If you take these two odd ACFs and combine them, a hexblade/cleric is a perfect fit, and I can’t imagine anybody is going to do that one!”

(Queue reveal, with four hexblade/clerics, two zhentarim fighters and precisely zero rogues or swordsages.)

In any case, I have one build fully mapped out, including skills, and a good idea for the fluff as well. Just need to write it up! I also have a second idea that probably won’t end up getting submitted, but you never know...

The Viscount

2020-11-26, 01:19 AM

Sian

2020-11-27, 04:45 AM

Found a really cool idea that qualifies and everything ... except really showcasing the ingredient.

That said, I feel i have something just barely out of reach here, that if I grab it would be great :)

Think i have something here :)

nosborm

2020-11-30, 10:08 AM

(Five iterations later…)
“OK, If you take these two odd ACFs and combine them, a hexblade/cleric is a perfect fit, and I can’t imagine anybody is going to do that one!”

(Queue reveal, with four hexblade/clerics, two zhentarim fighters and precisely zero rogues or swordsages.)

This is exactly how I build characters. Glad to know I have found my people!

Also, I have one build almost fully sketched out and hope to submit it by the end of the week. I'd love to do another but I don't think it will happen.

H_H_F_F

2020-11-30, 11:11 AM

I've submitted one build, which I ended up liking a lot. I've been working on fluff for the second build. If I like the fluff I'll submit it, if not I'll just share the table after the competition is done.

nosborm

2020-12-01, 04:33 PM

Thurbane

2020-12-01, 04:35 PM

Yeah, can't get enthused about an entry.

It's a very busy time of year, but if time permits, I may judge.

Piggy Knowles

2020-12-01, 04:39 PM

How concerned should I be about multiclass penalties? I know this answer is likely judge dependent but I'm curious if there's a general consensus. I never play with that rule at my table nor do I (usually) think about it while character building. However, I saw two builds penalized for it last round and want to make sure I'm not making an avoidable mistake.

Not every judge dings for it, but most do, since it is an explicit rule and ignoring it is a (very very common) houserule. I basically always try to build with it in mind.

WhamBamSam

2020-12-01, 05:24 PM

How concerned should I be about multiclass penalties? I know this answer is likely judge dependent but I'm curious if there's a general consensus. I never play with that rule at my table nor do I (usually) think about it while character building. However, I saw two builds penalized for it last round and want to make sure I'm not making an avoidable mistake.Like Piggy, I usually build with it in mind just to dot i's and cross t's. When I judge, I assign the smallest penalty possible at the granularity of my rubric (-0.25), so essentially a build that incurs multiclass penalties will lose to a build that is otherwise equal but does not do so, but otherwise will not lose placing.

H_H_F_F

2020-12-01, 05:29 PM

How concerned should I be about multiclass penalties? I know this answer is likely judge dependent but I'm curious if there's a general consensus. I never play with that rule at my table nor do I (usually) think about it while character building. However, I saw two builds penalized for it last round and want to make sure I'm not making an avoidable mistake.

I don't think I've seen anyone really tear into a build for it. I've been taking away half a point in elegance for having it, less if it's only an issue for a couple of levels. If you can find away to avoid it, do - I'd say it's usually not worth it for a bit of extra power. If your build can't work without it, just take the penalty and get on with it.

Thurbane

2020-12-01, 06:00 PM

nosborm

2020-12-03, 04:57 PM

Thank you everyone for the insights, it's really helpful!

Zaq

2020-12-05, 12:55 PM

I probably won't be the one judging, but when I do judge, I ignore multiclass penalties entirely.

My ability to focus has been fragmented a little bit and I'm going to have to hustle to get even one build in, let alone two. How hard is that deadline, boss?

Piggy Knowles

2020-12-05, 12:59 PM

I have one build mostly written up and one build finished but no write-up even begun, and I'm fighting through the swamps and morasses of demotivation to actually finish them. Hopefully I get there, because I really like both builds.

Heavenblade

2020-12-05, 02:37 PM

Is there q chance to delay the deadline by a few hours/a day? I have a formatted build but I need to write flavor text and level breakdown.

The Viscount

2020-12-05, 08:50 PM

Yeah, I can delay it a few hours. New deadline 02:00 GMT.

Heavenblade

2020-12-06, 08:50 AM

Oh well, that was on my sleeping hours..., next time Ill make it on time.

H_H_F_F

2020-12-06, 08:58 AM

Oh well, that was on my sleeping hours..., next time Ill make it on time.

Just making sure you realize the deadline has not yet passed, and you have ~12 more hours. If you know that and you just don't have the time, then never mind - it's just that your phrasing made it appear as if you believe we're past the deadline.

Heavenblade

2020-12-06, 10:29 AM

Oh wait

Right
RIGHT
(Im always confusing international hours, its such a mess :smalleek: )

Zaq

2020-12-06, 03:31 PM

Entry's in. I didn't get to devote quite as much TLC as I usually do to the write-up, but I'm just happy to have something in.

Piggy, your post about having two builds that you're really happy with and still having to battle against demotivation to get everything in? I feel ya, bro. I feel ya hard. Energy management is super challenging these days just in general.

Everyone remember to take care of yourselves, okay?

Hiro Quester

2020-12-06, 11:38 PM

Piggy, your post about having two builds that you're really happy with and still having to battle against demotivation to get everything in? I feel ya, bro. I feel ya hard. Energy management is super challenging these days just in general.

Everyone remember to take care of yourselves, okay?

Doubleplus on that.

I took care of myself by not even trying to work out the details on the stupid kernel of an idea I had, that I could not convince myself was worth the effort to develop out.

Plus its a time of year that I could predict would be very very busy for me.

And frankly I could not get enthusiastic with the idea that you had to be able to cast dominate person (which lasts days/level), but the main class ability let you dominate a person --well any creature, which is an upgrade-- for one only round). Apart from the fact that you can Claws of Influence a group of creatures, that seems seriously inferior to the prerequisite ability that I'd be using instead in many situations.

And the side-benefits (adding to the DC of a charm or compulsion) seemed kinda meh. (I spend a few days perusing interesting ways to pair that with particular charms or compulsions and came up dry.).

Compelling a creature to cast a spell (it chooses which spell, and its target) seem seriously uncontrolled and risky.

The fact that you all seem to have found interesting ways to use this infuriating class has me expecting to be surprised (which might be a contradiction in terms). I can't wait to see what you have cooked up.

Venger

2020-12-06, 11:44 PM

Got mine in. I'm excited to see what everyone's come up with.

The Viscount

2020-12-07, 01:13 AM

Sorry for the delay, folks. It's time for the reveal! Please hold from posting until the all clear.

The Viscount

2020-12-07, 01:18 AM

I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!

Nimrae set at her desk in a room dimly lit by a single candle. She could tell the candle made the male uncomfortable. She didn’t care, of course. He deserved it, anyway, for making her uncomfortable first. Not that he did. She wasn’t afraid of any male, him included. She was a cleric of Lolth!

“Now listen, you swine-“, she opened, but the sight of his fist tightening chilled her anger at once. “Listen, Fadeyrn”, she said in a soothing, friendlier tone. “I’d like to read you a few quotes.”

After a moment, she decided to take his silence as acceptance.

“Ahem. ’Nearly all corruptors are arcane spellcasters.’”

She glanced it him. No reply.

“’Most of them are bards or sorcerers who establish a strong foundation of spellcasting abilities prior to advancing in this prestige class –’ This is straight from Drow of the Underdark, I’ll have you know.”

Still, nothing. She gritted her teeth, and carried on.

“’Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you ever fight on your own behalf... You lack the combat capabilities of other characters…’ Blah, blah, blah… ‘NEVER neglect bluff, diplomacy, disguise, intimidate and sense motive… Interaction is key to your survival.’”

Her eyes peeked at him over the scroll. “Well, no one can say you neglect intimidation, that’s for damn sure.”

Silence.

“Anyway… ‘He uses trickery and deception to get his way… A hidden enemy.’ Deception, male. Hidden. ”

No response.

“Well?”

Another moment of silence. Then, the hulking monstrosity in front of her leaned forward, laying one massive gauntleted hand on the desk. In a low, feral voice that sent shimmers down her spine, he growled:

“With respect, mistress…

“You can go **** right off with that ******* ********.”

CE Half fey Lolth touched lesser drow male.
32 pb: Str 16, Dex 8, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 18.
Racial, templates: Str 22, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 22.
All advancements go to Cha.

ECL
Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

2
LA
Half fey
-
-
-
-
-
-
Flight, half fey SLAs, lowlight vision, enchantment immunity.

3
LA
Lolth touched
-
-
-
-
-
-
Fearless

4
1st
Thug fighter 1
+1
+2
+0
+0
Bluff 4, intimidate 4, sense motive 2.
Flyby attack
-

5
2nd
Paladin of Slaughter 1
+2
+4
+0
+0
Bluff 4, intimidate 4, Knowledge (religion) 1, sense motive 2.
-
Aura of evil, detect good, smite good

6
3rd
Paladin of slaughter
+3
+5
+0
+0
Bluff 4, intimidate 4, knowledge (religion) 2, sense motive 2.
Power attack
Divine grace, deadly touch

7
4th
Thug fighter 2
+4
+6
+0
+0
Bluff 7, intimidate 4, knowledge (religion) 2, sense motive 2.
B: EWP - whip (whip)
-

8
5th
Warblade 1
+5
+8
+0
+0
Bluff 7, diplomacy 3, intimidate 4, knowledge (religion) 2, sense motive 2.
-
Battle clarity, weapon aptitude, maneuvers

9
6th
Warblade 2
+6
+9
+0
+0
Bluff 8, diplomacy 4, intimidate 4, knowledge (religion) 2, sense motive 2.
WF - whip
Uncanny dodge

10
7th
Warblade 3
+7
+9
+1
+1
Bluff 9, diplomacy 4, intimidate 5, knowledge (religion) 2, sense motive 2.
-
Battle ardor

11
8th
Divine crusader 1
+7
+11
+1
+3
Bluff 9, diplomacy 4, intimidate 5, knowledge (religion) 2, sense motive 2.5
-
Spells

12
9th
Divine crusader 2
+8
+12
+1
+4
Bluff 9, diplomacy 4, intimidate 5, knowledge (religion) 2, sense motive 3.
Persuasive
-

13
10th
Divine crusader 3
+9
+12
+2
+4
Bluff 9, diplomacy 4, intimidate 5, knowledge (religion) 2, sense motive 3.5
-
Electricity resistance 5

14
11th
Divine crusader 4
+10
+13
+2
+5
Bluff 9, diplomacy 4, intimidate 5, knowledge (religion) 2, sense motive 4.
-
-

15
12th
Insidious corruptor 1
+10
+13
+2
+7
Bluff 9, diplomacy 4, intimidate 8, knowledge (religion) 2, sense motive 4.
Imperious command
Claws of influence, manipulate senses.

16
13th
Insidious corruptor 2
+11
+13
+2
+8
Bluff 9, diplomacy 4, intimidate 9, knowledge (religion) 2, sense motive 4. Skill trick: never outnumbered.
-
Probe thoughts

17
14th
Insidious corruptor 3
+11
+14
+3
+8
Bluff 9, diplomacy 4, intimidate 12, knowledge (religion) 2, sense motive 4. Skill trick: never outnumbered.
-
Manipulation

18
15th
Insidious corruptor 4
+12
+14
+3
+9
Bluff 9, diplomacy 4, intimidate 15, knowledge (religion) 2, sense motive 4. Skill trick: never outnumbered.
Martial stance: dancing blade form
Minion

19
16th
Insidious corruptor 5
+12
+14
+3
+9
Bluff 9, diplomacy 4, intimidate 18, knowledge (religion) 2, sense motive 4. Skill trick: never outnumbered.
-
Swift enchantment

20
17th
Insidious corruptor 6
+13
+15
+4
+10
Bluff 9, diplomacy 4, intimidate 20, knowledge (religion) 2, sense motive 5. Skill trick: never outnumbered.
-
Irresistible charm

Maneuvers and stances:

ECLILManeuvers83Maneuvers: Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Emerald Razor, Mountain Hammer. Stance: Leading the Charge.94Wall of Blades105Iron Heart Surge189Stance: Dancing Blade Form

Spells:
Faderyn’s spell list, as a divine crusader of Lolth, is comprised solely of the spells in the wrath domain. The table below does not include bonus spells derived from Faderyn’s charisma.

ECL
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th

11th
0
-
-
-
-
-
-

12th
1
0
-
-
-
-
-

13th
2
1
0
-
-
-
-

14th
2
2
1
0
-
-
-

16th
3
2
2
1
0
-
-

18th
3
3
2
2
1
0
-

20th
3
3
3
2
2
1
0

Life was always interesting for Faderyn. Born to a lesser drow mother and a lesser apparently-not-drow father, the signs of his heritage were obvious since his birth. He was beautiful, in a way – gentle wings like fluttering shadows caressing a lithe yet powerful form; Pale, glimmering eyes in his otherworldly face. His lot in life was a source of much thinly veiled envy. His gifts made him confident, vain.

Vanity doesn’t tend to last long in the realm of the spider queen.

The goddess blessed him, made him her own. His wings grew hard and thick. His elegant form was made massive, crude. The gifts of his heritage, transformed, made him a monstrosity. Where there was once vanity, there was left nothing but bitterness and hate.

First couple of character levels. Like most high LA builds, he’s quite fragile at this point, with only 2 HD – but rolling d10 and having 16 con helps with that a lot. Still, if he wants to keep himself safe, flyby attack with a reach weapon is a phenomenal option at these levels, and he can do some pretty nice damage with his +6 Str. Once per day, he can also use the phenomenal glitterdust, which enjoys a relatively high DC thanks to his high Cha. Out of battle, he can decently function as a semi-face with his high Cha, his skill points, and his at-will Charm Person.
Fuelled by cold fury and the need to prove himself, Faderyn’s capabilities in battle grew. He had learned well, and took to heart the lesson given to him by Lolth. Strength is the only truth, and there is no way of cultivating it save hate and suffering. Your lot in life means nothing if you have any reserves, any hesitations.
He never fought like most drow, and though that didn’t change, he did move towards a more focused and sophisticated form of battle – one that still relied on his undying fury, and the need for superiority.

Divine grace pops up at ECL 6, as well as a few extra SLAs. Whip proficiency will have its use, but at ECL 7 it’s pretty much a dead feat. Luckily, weapon aptitude comes around 1 level later, and makes it a very useful feat to have. The warblade maneuvers are mostly ones that will have long term use. As far as the stance – while Faderyn is hardly a charger, a scaling bonus to charge damage is more useful to him than other 1st level stances, and will be much more useful by ECL 11.
The SLAs gained from the half-fey template over the warblade are definitely good. Protection from law, suggestion, and confusion can all easily find their uses throughout the day, and the increased caster level keeps some of the old ones very much in play.
Faderyn continued to wage war against all around him, earning a reputation as a tricky and powerful enemy. He fully embraced Lolth’s blessing, making himself a living aspect of her wrath. Many found that the only way to evade his fury was bowing down before him. Though a lesser drow, and a male at that, he started gathering power and influence – using his innate magic to bend others to his will.

Breaking away from the martial classes, Faderyn becomes a divine crusader of Lolth and takes his first level of the SI. His chosen domain is the Wrath domain. The granted power of this domain is extremely bad for clerics, but it functions as a nice little boon for faderyn – giving him a small Str bonus in exchange for almost nothing. He gains Rhino’s rush at ECL 11, making good use of his stance. Bull’s strength, at ecl 12, is boring but useful. Rage could be a good buff for subordinates, but it’s usually not worth a standard action, unless you have ample time for buffing. Shout is a great AOE option, something he mostly lacks otherwise. The first level of the SI doesn’t give him much, yet, but he finally has the skill points to pursue intimidation as a combat resource. It’s a pretty high ECL, and a lot of enemies are going to be immune to fear – but it’s not a huge investment for him, and with imperious command (and never outnumbered, next level) when it works – it works.
His half fey SLAs keep evolving as well, and include very good options. Of special note are the abilities of ECL 14 (11 HD). One of those is Dominate Person, which lets Faderyn qualify for the SI.
Faderyn continued to rise in the ranks of the insidious corruptors, beoming one of the most notorious of his time. What he lacked in social slickness and spellcasting versatility he made up for with raw brutality – cutting down the enemies of Lolth while throwing around powerful enchantments.

Final stretch of the build, and the majority of SI levels taken. ECL 16 brings righteous might to the mix, which is an excellent buff if you’ve got time for it. It also brings in mass invisibility 1/day. As already mentioned, never outnumbered comes up – and by the end of the build, intimidate will be maxed out. Persuasive and pumped Cha should be enough to get everyone around cowering quite often. ECL 17 brings with it the first ability of the SI which is really useful to Faderyn – manipulation is crazy good for a melee. It’s a short range immediate action debuff with no save of its own. “Move or suck” can really ruin a melee opponents day. ECL 18 brings lots of boons: It brings a new stance for more reach, which is always useful and can be used to flyby attack bigger creatures without worry. You also get the cute Minion ability from the class, which can be situationally useful. More importantly, it brings about Mass Suggestion or Geas as SLAs. Geas has a really long casting time, which makes it unviable most of the… Oh, who am I kidding, you know where this is going. Finally, we get to cast song of discord, which is mean and awesome.

ECL 19 brings about the broken ability known as swift enchantment. As an immediate+free action combo, we cast an enchantment spell. From this point onward, Faderyn should have a couple of subordinates affected by his claws of influence with him at ALL TIMES. If the situation allows to switch it to an enemy outside of battle, that’s fantastic – but it’s not really necessary. As a gish (I guess?) Faderyn needs his actions. Gishes thrive on swift action spells, and this just made Rage, Song of Discord, and a lot of his SLAs swift action spells. Swift action Geas once per day is pretty ****ing incredible, and has massive combat potential.

Finally, we come to the peak of the build. 1 more ammo for swift enchantment and the like is fantastic, and Irresistible Charm is awesome with Faderyn’s Cha. It works great with Charm Person at will, obviously, but Mass Charm monster at 18+Cha*2 DC? Yes, thank you! Insanity is the other SLA granted by this level, and it’s very good, of course, with swift enchantment. Other than that, This level brings us 1 more BAB, to finish out at 13, and Tenser’s Transformation.

Now, Tenser’s Transformation is usually kind of a trap. For a full spellcaster, it’s too risky, and not worth it. For a gish, it takes away what makes you uniqe, and you should have decent BAB either way. For Faderyn, it’s the ultimate buff.
Transformation takes away your capability to cast spells, or to use spell trigger magic items. It does not, to my knowledge, affect SLAs. Here’s the method: Throw down Song of Discord as a free action, and cast Tenser’s Transformation. Next turn, rush in to do what you wanna do (Flyby attack, intimidation, whatever) and cast a free action SLA – insanity, geas, hold monster, whatever. Tenser’s makes up for your lost BAB, gives you ability bonuses and natural armour, and you don’t even sacrifice your strongest magical options.
With weapon aptitude, EWP, and WF, there are plenty of weapons one should strive to keep at hand, in case the circumstances justify using them. Longstaff, mancatcher, etc. However, as a main weapon, I would recommend a Kaorti weapon (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a) for x4 shenanigans. Either a 19-20 reach weapon or a falchion. If you can’t get your hand on one, just carry a normal reach weapon, and the greathammer from the MM 4.
Complete Divine: Divine crusader.
Complete Scoundrel:: Never outnumbered.
Drow of the Underdark: Insidious corruptor, Imperious command.
Fiend Folio: Half fey template.
Monster Manual: Flyby Attack.
Monster Manual IV: Lolth touched template (also, a few pages later, Greathorn minotaurs – which have the Greathammer mentioned in weaponry.)
Spell Compendium: Wrath domain.
Tome of Battle: Warblade, maneuvers.
Unearthed Arcana: Thug fighter variant, paladin of slaughter variant.
Lesser Drow (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040215a&page=2)

The Viscount

2020-12-07, 01:20 AM

He always gets his man.

Aster Lac'nala - the Truthseeker

Tell all the Truth but tell it slant –
Success in Circuit lies
Too bright for our infirm Delight
The Truth’s superb surprise
As Lightning to the Children eased
With explanation kind
The Truth must dazzle gradually
Or every man be blind …

Emily Dickinson

Captain Romarin stood before the corpse of Lord Eri. The dagger wounds in his back were many. "Stabbed at least 20 times", the Captain mumbled. A fresh recruit of the City Watch approached him: "Captain Romarin!" He saluted. After a nod from the Captain the eager youth continued: "The complete household and the whole family is in attendance and watched over by Sergeant Odro and his squad. Also a messenger arrived and told the Sergeant that the king has sent for the Truthseeker". The Captain wasn't surprised but he couldn't help but frown. The young recruit noticed the frown. When the Captain looked back at the corpse, he mumbled: "I hope he's worth the trouble...." After a long pause the young recruit cleared his throat. The Captain turned to the recruit. "As I expect you never had the pleasure of working with the Truthseeker before, here are some guidelines." The young recruit looked baffled but listened. "First rule: Never interact with him alone. In fact I will order three more men in when he arrives. Second rule: Never accept his offer to "help you see". While he is indeed capable of making us notice things we had overlooked before it comes at the price that he is able to do something to your mind. Third rule: Answer his questions truthfully no matter how stupid the questions may sound to you. As a matter of fact I am pretty sure his first question will be: who is the victim?" The young recruit gaped: "He doesn't know Lord Eri?" The Captain frowned again deeply and waved a hand dismissively. "He claims he has to be a blank page so truth can be written on it. He is a weird man. Last rule: Do not interfere when he speaks to witnesses or suspects. He has the King's approval and is one of his most trusted advisors." The young recruit nodded. When the Captain didn't continue and turned back to examine the corpse, the young recruit dared to ask: "So he is a torturer. The King's torturer." The Captain crouched down. Without looking at the young recruit, he whispered: "Sometimes I wish he was. Would make me way more comfortable knowing what he is about." Louder he continued. "No, he is not. He can be intimidating. He can be dangerous. But he never harms anyone physically. He claims he is a priest of the city. A priest sworn to truth. You can ask him about that if you want when we are close by. I am sure it helps you understand how dangerous this man is. He is full of **** if you ask me. An evil man enjoying toying with witnesses and suspects but he is reliable and he finds the truth within a pool of lies more often than not. I am pretty sure he will find out who backstabbed Lord Eri 20 times just by talking to those in attendance. If not we have a suspect within 24 hours, when he goes and asks the city". The young man didn't ask what that meant, and Captain Romarin didn't fell like explaining it. So the captain stood up and turned to the young man. "Now fetch Hamill, Urk and Rifdorn from outside. Tell them I ordered them in because of the Truthseeker coming. They will understand. And get us something to eat and drink. The Truthseekers interrogations may take a while.

NE Middle Aged Lesser Drow Urban Druid 7 - Insidious Corruptor 10 - Urban Druid 3

Attributes

Base
Middle Age
Racial Traits
Class Level
Advancement
Final

Strength
12
-1
-
-
11

Dexterity
13
-1
+2
-
14

Constitution
13
-1
- 2
-
10

Intelligence
13
+1
-
-
14

Wisdom
11
+1
-
-
12

Charisma
16
+1
-
+5
22

Table

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Urban Druid
+0
+2
+0
+2
Bluff 4, Diplomacy 4, Intimidate 4, Sense Motive 4, Gather Information 4, Concentration 4
Persuasive
City sense, favored city 1, urban companion

2nd
Urban Druid
+1
+3
+0
+3
Bluff 5, Diplomacy 5, Intimidate 5, Sense Motive 5, Gather Information 5, Concentration 5
-
Crowdwalk

3rd
Urban Druid
+2
+3
+1
+3
Bluff 6, Diplomacy 6, Intimidate 6, Sense Motive 6, Gather Information 6, Concentration 6
Weapon Finesse
Alley fighting

4th
Urban Druid
+3
+4
+1
+4
Bluff 7, Diplomacy 7, Intimidate 7, Sense Motive 7, Gather Information 7, Concentration 7
-
Disease immunity, favored city 2

5th
Urban Druid
+3
+4
+1
+4
Bluff 8, Diplomacy 8, Intimidate 8, Sense Motive 8, Gather Information 8, Concentration 8
-
Urban shape (1/day)

6th
Urban Druid
+4
+5
+2
+5
Bluff 9, Diplomacy 9, Intimidate 9, Sense Motive 9, Gather Information 8, Concentration 8, Skill trick: Never outnumbered
Imperious Command
Urban shape (2/day)

7th
Urban Druid
+5
+5
+2
+5
Bluff 10, Diplomacy 10, Intimidate 10, Sense Motive 10, Gather Information 9, Concentration 9, Skill trick: Never outnumbered
-
Urban shape (3/day)

8th
Insidious Corruptor
+5
+5
+2
+7
Bluff 11, Diplomacy 11, Intimidate 11, Sense Motive 11, Gather Information 10, Concentration 10, Skill trick: Never outnumbered
-
Claws of influence (1 target), manipulate senses

9th
Insidious Corruptor
+6
+5
+2
+8
Bluff 12, Diplomacy 12, Intimidate 12, Sense Motive 12, Gather Information 11, Concentration 11, Skill trick: Never outnumbered
Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Probe thoughts

10th
Insidious Corruptor
+6
+6
+3
+8
Bluff 13, Diplomacy 13, Intimidate 13, Sense Motive 13, Gather Information 12, Concentration 12, Skill trick: Never outnumbered
-
Manipulation, claws of influence (2 targets)

11th
Insidious Corruptor
+7
+6
+3
+9
Bluff 14, Diplomacy 14, Intimidate 14, Sense Motive 14, Gather Information 12, Concentration 13, Spellcraft 1, Skill trick: Never outnumbered
-
Minion

12th
Insidious Corruptor
+7
+6
+3
+9
Bluff 15, Diplomacy 15, Intimidate 15, Sense Motive 15, Gather Information 12, Concentration 14, Spellcraft 2, Skill trick: Never outnumbered
Heighten Spell
Swift enchantment

13th
Insidious Corruptor
+8
+7
+4
+10
Bluff 16, Diplomacy 16, Intimidate 16, Sense Motive 16, Gather Information 12, Concentration 15, Spellcraft 3, Skill trick: Never outnumbered
-
Irresistible charm, claws of influence (3 targets)

14th
Insidious Corruptor
+8
+7
+4
+10
Bluff 17, Diplomacy 17, Intimidate 17, Sense Motive 17, Gather Information 12, Concentration 16, Spellcraft 4, Skill trick: Never outnumbered
-
Greater manipulation

15th
Insidious Corruptor
+9
+7
+4
+11
Bluff 18, Diplomacy 18, Intimidate 18, Sense Motive 18, Gather Information 13, Concentration 17, Spellcraft 4, Skill trick: Never outnumbered
Practiced spellcaster
Greater minion

16th
Insidious Corruptor
+9
+8
+5
+11
Bluff 19, Diplomacy 19, Intimidate 19, Sense Motive 19, Gather Information 14, Concentration 18, Spellcraft 4, Skill trick: Never outnumbered
-
Irresistible compulsion, claws of influence (4 targets)

17th
Insidious Corruptor
+10
+8
+5
+12
Bluff 20, Diplomacy 20, Intimidate 20, Sense Motive 20, Gather Information 15, Concentration 19, Spellcraft 4, Skill trick: Never outnumbered
-
Master manipulator

18th
Urban Druid
+11
+9
+5
+13
Bluff 21, Diplomacy 21, Intimidate 21, Sense Motive 21, Gather Information 16, Concentration 20, Spellcraft 4, Skill trick: Never outnumbered
Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Urban shape (Large), favored city 3

19th
Urban Druid
+11
+9
+6
+14
Bluff 22, Diplomacy 22, Intimidate 22, Sense Motive 22, Gather Information 17, Concentration 21, Spellcraft 4, Skill trick: Never outnumbered
-
Information network

20th
Urban Druid
+12
+10
+6
+15
Bluff 23, Diplomacy 23, Intimidate 23, Sense Motive 23, Gather Information 18, Concentration 22, Spellcraft 4, Skill trick: Never outnumbered
-
Urban shape (4/day)

Spells per Day including bonus spells

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
4
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
5
4
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
5
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
5
4
4
3
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
6
5
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-

8th
6
5
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-

9th
6
5
4
4
3
-
-
-
-
-

10th
6
5
4
4
3
-
-
-
-
-

11th
6
5
5
4
3
1
-
-
-
-

12th
6
5
5
4
3
2
-
-
-
-

13th
6
5
5
4
4
3
-
-
-
-

14th
6
5
5
4
4
3
-
-
-
-

15th
6
6
5
5
4
3
1
-
-
-

16th
6
6
5
5
4
3
1
-
-
-

17th
6
6
5
5
4
4
2
-
-
-

18th
6
6
6
5
5
4
3
1
-
-

19th
6
6
6
5
5
4
4
2
-
-

20th
6
6
6
6
5
5
4
2
1
-

Spells by level worth considering. Bold ones are key for Aster.

0: Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, Mending, Purify Food and Drink
1: Charm Person, Faerie Fire, Obscuring Mist, Scatterspray (low level swarms), Cure Light Wounds, Seething Eye Bane (corrupt)
2: Hold Person, Suggestion, Barkskin, Summon Swarm, Rope Trick, Knock, Lesser Restoration, Lahm's Finger Darts (corrupt)
3: Charm Monster, Glibness, Stinking Cloud, Halt Undead, Protection From Energy, Touch of Jubilex (corrupt)
4: Dominate Person, Hold Monster, Freedom of Movement, Scrying, Rusting Grasp, Dispel Magic
5: Animate Object, Wall of Stone, Susurrus of the City, Death Ward
6: Mass Suggestion, Undeath to Death, Antilife shell
7: True Seeing, Heal, Disintegrate, Death by Thorns (corrupt)
8: Polymorph any Object, Word of Recall

At higher spell levels (5 to 8) heightened versions of Hold Monster and Dominate Person will be mostly used to make use of the SI's abilities.

The build ended up as a very simple "10 and 10" build. I wanted to enter the SI as early as possible because Claws of influence is keyed off level in the SI. Urban Druid is one way to enter at 7 and as far as I know the only way to keep Charisma based casting while doing that. Also it has all 4 skills that are key for the SI and Claws of influence. Also while the Urban Druid's spell list is very limited it has a distinct focus on enchantment spells.

Levels 1-5:
Early on Aster is a pretty typical face character with divine support casting and enough combat prowess to be useful. Since the SI has a bad BAB, the druid's 3/4 BAB progression helps Aster in the early levels. Weapon Finesse and 3/4 BAB with only 14 Dexterity isn't a lot of melee potential, but this may do to be helpful besides support casting. Since Urban Druid is proficient with all crossbows, some leather armor and bucklers, Aster can rely on shooting Heavy Double Crossbows at foes at level 1 and 2 and engage in melee with a Rapier at level 3. Demoralizing foes with the Intimidate skill is also a valid combat option. As soon as Hold Person is available there is also the real threat of Aster performing a Coup de Grace with his Double Heavy Crossbow. Even Alley fighting might come in handy.
Out of combat Aster has the full social package with Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate and Sense Motive as well as Gather information. Favored City adds Wisdom bonus (+1) to all those rolls except Sense motive. City Sense is another increase to Gather Information rolls by 2. Persuasive is the cherry on top for Bluff and Intimidate.
Spells: Hold Monster, Suggestion, Charm Person/Monster and of course the all time broken Glibness are the bread and butter of Aster. Besides them I listed spells worth considering in the spell section including the corrupt spells that help expand the limited spell list a little.
Urban Shape: At level 5 Aster significantly improves his combat abilities and his movement options. The default combat form would be the Darkstalker (3d6 sneak attack means even more Coup de Grace damage), decent stats that work well with crossbows and Weapon Finesse. Movement forms include the flying Avariel, all aquatic humanoids and the Varag for ground speed.
Companion: Your first companion will most likely be the ever stable riding dog but you will switch it as soon as you enter the SI.

Levels 6-10:
At level 6 the full Demoralize combo is assembled: Imperious command and Never outnumbered. At 7 4th level spells kick in and fulfill the last prerequisite for the SI (Dominate Person). You should also switch your Urban companion. Since Claws of Influence cannot target anything with Intelligence lower than 3 switch your loyal riding dog (or animated object or whatever you deemed most useful) for an Otyugh. Since it is an Aberration with an Intelligence score of 6, it is a viable target for Claws of Influence which is very relevant later on. If I am not mistaken, level 8 is the earliest possible entry for Insidious Corruptor.
Claws of Influence: At level 8 Claws of Influence aren't that impressive yet but it is already another +1 to Intimidate in combat ending up at 1d20 +18 (in your Favored City) without Claws of Influence or +19 with Claws of Influence at level 8. One of your main investments should be the Fearsome armor property (Intimidate as move action). A typical turn at later levels (11-15) could be using Claws of Influence as a standard action followed by demoralize as a move action. At levels 8-10 the other way round should be more effective.
Manipulate Senses is useful for Aster when he gets his second Claws of Influence target. If in a party Aster uses it to enhance Spot, Search and Listen for whoever needs it. If he is alone his Otyugh will be the chosen target.
Probe thoughts is a nice out of combat option on a restraint captive or an even nicer in combat follow up after first turn demoralizing when you want save spells.
Manipulation: At first I wasn't a big fan of this class feature but soon I realized that this is way stronger than I thought. Especially when you as a player are able and allowed to metagame. Let's say Aster managed to use Claws of Influence on a single opponent and was able to demoralize his opponent who is now shaken. Now give him an option he simply doesn't want to fulfill: the caster attacks, the melee brute casts. If he does so: great. If he refuses, that opponent just agreed to have -4 on saves for 1 round on top of being shaken. That's -6 to saves. Hello newly found target of Dominate Person or Hold Monster or any other save or suck/die your party has available.

Levels 11-15:
Minion is a little lackluster because it only lasts one round and it requires Claws of Influence.
Swift Enchantment is the main reason you need an Otyugh or any other intelligent companion: you are attacked? Give up the Claws of Influence on the Otyugh. Hold Monster as an immediate action. On your turn use Claws of Influence again on your Otyugh (simply command it to fail the save) and repeat for as long as you have Enchantment spells.
Irresistible charm: when you really need that one person to be your friend: bring your otyugh or any other subject under Claws of Influence. Should be especially useful when you have prepared a Heightened Charm Monster /Person spell.
Greater Manipulation: This is why you will be able to convince your party members to let them be targets of Claws of Influence. The Attack Option is amazing for almost every melee character and so is the cast option for casters. The move option will probably be used by some other mounted builds because increasing mount speed by 10 is pretty good.
Greater Minion is a probably mostly useful to screw over your party who you just convinced that they all should be under your Influence before taking their stuff and teleport away at this level.
Practiced Spellcaster helps overcome spell resistance by regaining almost all lost caster levels and Heighten Spell was already mentioned.

Levels 16-20:
Irresistible Compulsion: when you really need that one person to be your slave.
Master Manipulator: swift action Claws of Influence, move action demoralize, standard action casting a save or suck spell or use Greater Minion? Yes please. Claws of Influence standard action (DC=24+CHA[7]=31) and then demoralize your opponent. Let's add up again: At level 17 your Intimidate roll vs a target under Claws of Influence in one of your Favored Cities is 1d20+32+CHA[7]+WIS[1]. For reference: A Balor has a +19 bonus on Will saves which means his chance to save vs Claws is 45% (depending on Aster's exact Charisma) and his opposed roll vs demoralize is capped at 47 (1d20+27). Without any attribute boosted Aster needs to roll an 8 or higher with his Intimidate check to beat the Balor and make him cower in fear.

The build returns to Urban Druid for the spell progression ending up with level 8 spells, more Urban Shape and another boost to Gather Information. Besides the spells, nothing really new is added to the build.

References:
Lesser Drow: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040215a&page=2
Urban Druid: Dragon Compendium
Never outnumbered: Complete Scoundrel
Imperious Command, Fearsome armor: Drow of the Underdark
Double Heavy Crossbow: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a
Practiced Spellcaster: Complete Divine

The Viscount

2020-12-07, 01:23 AM

You can't betray someone if they weren't loyal to you in the first place.

Strange are the details our minds choose to remember. I can recall almost nothing about the beginning of the day I was captured – it was, I assume, no different than any other day in the tunnels. Waking up, surprised at the lack of a knife in my back. Eating, and not being poisoned. I knew I was sent with the patrol to die – there could be no other reason to send a wizard-in-training, only three years into my studies. I guess they had no reason to do it themselves – after all, what were my odds of surviving any encounter? I didn’t carry any weaponry, I was not in armor, I was frail of body, and I have never succeeded in mustering more arcane power than that required for a small cantrip. I felt like I got close a few times, trying enchantment spells (my specialty), but I never managed to get the full effect. That was natural. I didn’t have the luxury of coming from a noble house, after all, so I received no real education in the arcane arts before coming to the academy.

No, I don’t recall much of the beginning of the day I was captured. I also don’t recall much from the battle itself – and what I do remember seems so far away. Faint screaming, cursing and growling, distant recollections of orc and drow blood staining the walls. And I recall nothing of the march to the surface, though I know I must have been raving in delirium, exhausted as I was and drenched in my own blood.

But I remember in perfect detail the gloomy eyes of the pale fish in the small underdark pond. Amassing in a clump, biting each other, fighting desperately over the spot where my blood flowed steadily into the water. I remember the bored, tired face of the warrior who came to finish the job. My scream echoed through the halls when she ripped the spear out of my chest. As she raised it to strike, I tried to cast a charm spell. It didn’t work of course.

But something did catch.

I watched her halt her movement, a confused look in her eyes. She wasn’t charmed, not by any means – but she was… vulnerable.

“Please.” I blurted out in Goblin. My lungs were on fire, the metallic singe of blood in my mouth. “Please. I can be of use.”

She hesitated. I could see the spear, dripping with my blood, was shaking. Her shoulders tensed - and released. She turned around, and shouted out something in Orcish.

Another figure approached. A tall, powerfully built orc, covered head to toe in ornate plate armor. Two humanoid skulls hung from her belt at the hips, rattling as she walked. Her tusks were intricately carved with arcane runes. On her chest, there was a giant symbol of one blood-red eye.

She looked down on me, intrigued. Her lips moved in silent prayer, and I felt a cold wave wash over my mind. In heavily accented Elvish, she asked “Will you denounce the spider-bitch, completely and absolutely? Denounce your home, your people, your family? With all your heart?”

I couldn’t lie.

“Screw Lolth. Screw Menzoberranzan. Screw the drow.”

The shaman smiled. “Then you might be of use indeed.”

---

I learned much in my first few months in the surface cave. Uzgaa was wise enough to let me carry on with my arcane studies, under her guidance. She had taught me the way of Gruumsh, a philosophy of strength and domination. Again and again, she’d attack my mind with her spells, forcing me to avoid all lies, reveal all secrets. She knew there was no devotion in my heart. My obedience was borne out of fear, and the will to live. But it was obedience nonetheless, and it seemed to suffice.

Though I did not have the vast arcane resources of Sorcere and the academy at hand, my training progressed much quicker under the guidance Uzgaa’s surveillance. The short lived orcs had no time for the slow, methodical approach of my former people. There were downsides, of course. My breadth of knowledge, in spells as well as in other subjects, was vastly inferior to that of a proper drow wizard; but my research progressed, and my power grew. I met other slaves of the orcs, the strange inhabitants of this surface world. Many of them saw the life the tribe gave us as hard and painful.

They would not have liked Menzoberranzan.

Eventually, a few years later, it was decided that I should go back to the underdark. Go and serve as a spy for the tribe, to deliver information and captives to its inquisitors. To sow chaos and destruction, wherever I go. Uzgaa told me so one winter night, when we both wen to the surface to train under the nearly full moon.

“Works for me.” I responded.

“Nobody asked, worm.” She replied. “We will be hosting a little going away party for you tomorrow night. A leaving ceremony, if you will.”

I usually knew better than to ask questions. It only resulted in punishment, and while it was not usually very severe by drow standards, a beating is still a beating. Yet as my naked body was stretched over the cruel metal beams, sweat pouring down my face and dripping unto the fire beneath, I couldn’t help but asking: “Master, may I inquire as to what this ceremony entails, precisely?”

Uzgaa smiled. “You’ll be going away tomorrow. Out of our reach. This is just about making you a bit easier to control.”

“Oh. Well that’s okay, then.”

She smiled again. “Nobody asked, worm.”

And she jammed the stake into my heart.

---

I serve the purpose of my masters. Why wouldn’t I? Others, given my situation, would seek ways to free themselves of the powerful spells binding them to Uzgaa’s successors’ will. But why would I? I get to do what I want. My judgement is never overruled. I am allowed to satisfy the needs that arise in me, even when it means the destruction of a captive’s body, or mind.

The powers I have gained by desecrating Lolth’s vile sanctums are immense. I am hidden in drow society, my identity and nature protected by magical and mundane means alike. I take those I consider worth taking, tempt them way by promising riches, power, or the desired grace of Lolth. Sometimes they suspect something’s afoot, but they never guess right. They’re always surprised by where they end up.

Nobody expects the Orcish Inquisition.
Lesser drow necropolitan male. Chaotic evil. Enchanter 5, mindbender 1, ur-priest 2, mystic theurge 2, insidious corruptor 10.
Abilities (post racial): Str 8, Dex 16, Con 6 (-), Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 14.

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Focused enchanter* 1
+0
+0
+0
+2
Bluff 4, diplomacy 4, intimidate 4, K. (religion) 4, sense motive 4.
B: Scribe scrolls, Arcane disciple: Gruumsh, domination.
Spells, social proficiency, snake familiar.

2nd
Enchanter 2
+1
+0
+0
+3
Bluff 5 (+1), diplomacy 5 (+1), intimidate 4, k. (religion) 5 (+1), sense motive 4, spellcraft 2 (+2).
-
-

3rd
Elf wizard enchanter 3
+1
+1
+1
+3
Bluff 6 (+1), diplomacy 5, intimidate 4, k. (religion) 6 (+1), sense motive 4, spellcraft 5 (+3).
Spell focus: evil
Natural link

4th
Enchanter 4
+2
+1
+1
+4
Bluff 6, diplomacy 5, intimidate 4, k. (arcana) 2 (+2), k. (religion) 7 (+1), sense motive 4, spellcraft 7 (+2).
-
-

5th
Enchanter 5
+2
+1
+1
+4
Bluff 6, diplomacy 5, intimidate 4, k. (arcana) 3 (+1), k. (plains) 2 (+2), k. (religion) 8 (+1), sense motive 4, spellcraft 8 (+1)
-
-

6th
Mindbender 1
+2
+3
+1
+6
Bluff 6, diplomacy 5, intimidate 4, k. (arcana) 5 (+2), k. (plains) 5 (+3), k. (religion) 8, sense motive 4, spellcraft 8.
Iron will
Telepathy

7th
Ur-priest 1
+2
+3
+1
+8
Bluff 10 (+4), diplomacy 5, intimidate 4, k. (arcana) 5, k. (plains) 5, k. (religion) 8, sense motive 4, spellcraft 8, disguise 0.5 (cc).
-
spells

8th
Ur-priest 2
+3
+3
+1
+9
Bluff 11 (+1) , diplomacy 5, intimidate 4, k. (arcana) 6 (+1), k. (plains) 5, k. (religion) 8, sense motive 4, spellcraft 8, disguise 1 (+0.5, cc), skill trick: social recovery.
-
Rebuke undead

9th
Mystic theurge 1
+3
+3
+1
+11
Bluff 11, diplomacy 5, intimidate 4, k. (arcana) 6, k. (plains) 5, k. (religion) 8, sense motive 9 (+5), spellcraft 8, disguise 1, social recovery.
Persuasive
-

10th
Mystic theurge 2
+4
+3
+1
+12
Bluff 11, diplomacy 5, intimidate 4, k. (arcana) 6, k. (plains) 5, k. (religion) 8 sense motive 13 (+4), spellcraft 9 (+1), disguise 1, social recovery.
-
-

11th
Insidious corruptor 1
+4
+3
+1
+14
Bluff 11, diplomacy 12 (+7), intimidate 4, k. (arcana) 6, k. (plains) 5, k. (religion) 8, sense motive 13, spellcraft 9, disguise 1, social recovery.
-
Claws of influence, manipulate senses

12th
Insidious corruptor 2
+5
+3
+1
+15
Bluff 14 (+3), diplomacy 14 (+2), intimidate 4, k. (arcana) 6, k. (plains) 5, k. (religion) 8, sense motive 13, spellcraft 9, disguise 3 (+2), social recovery.
Practiced spellcaster (ur-priest)
Probe thoughts

13th
Insidious corruptor 3
+5
+4
+2
+15
Bluff 16 (+2), diplomacy 16 (+2), intimidate 4, k. (arcana) 6, k. (plains) 5, k. (religion) 8, sense motive 13, spellcraft 9, disguise 6 (+3), social recovery.
-
Manipulation

14th
Insidious corruptor 4
+6
+4
+2
+16
Bluff 17 (+1), diplomacy 17 (+1), intimidate 4, k. (arcana) 6, k. (plains) 5, k. (religion) 8, sense motive 13, spellcraft 9, disguise 11 (+5), social recovery.
-
Minion

15th
Insidious corruptor 5
+6
+4
+2
+16
Bluff 18 (+1), diplomacy 18 (+1), intimidate 4, k. (arcana) 6, k. (plains) 5, k. (religion) 8, sense motive 13, spellcraft 9, disguise 16 (+5), social recovery.
Heighten spell
Swift (free) enchantment

16th
Insidious corruptor 6
+7
+5
+3
+17
Bluff 19 (+1), diplomacy 19 (+1), intimidate 4, k. (arcana) 6, k. (plains) 5, k. (religion) 8, sense motive 13, spellcraft 9, disguise 19 (+3), skill trick: assume quirk, social recovery.
-
Irresistible charm

17th
Insidious corruptor 7
+7
+5
+3
+17
Bluff 20 (+1), diplomacy 20 (+1), intimidate 4, k. (arcana) 6, k. (plains) 5, k. (religion) 8, sense motive 17 (+4), spellcraft 9, disguise 20 (+1), assume quirk, social recovery.
-
Greater manipulation

18th
Insidious corruptor 8
+8
+5
+3
+18
Bluff 21 (+1), diplomacy 21 (+1), intimidate 4, k. (arcana) 6, k. (plains) 5, k. (religion) 8, sense motive 21 (+4), spellcraft 9, disguise 21 (+1), assume quirk, social recovery.
Divine Meta Magic: Heighten Spell.
Greater minion

19th
Insidious corruptor 9
+8
+6
+4
+18
Bluff 22 (+1), diplomacy 22 (+1), intimidate 7 (+3), k. (arcana) 6, k. (plains) 5, k. (religion) 8, sense motive 22 (+1), spellcraft 9, disguise 22 (+1), assume quirk, social recovery.
-
irresistible compulsion

20th
Insidious corruptor 10
+9
+6
+4
+19
Bluff 23 (+1), diplomacy 23 (+1), intimidate 10 (+3), k. (arcana) 6, k. (plains) 5, k. (religion) 8, sense motive 23 (+1), spellcraft 9, disguise 23 (+1), assume quirk, social recovery.
-
Master manipulator

*ACFs: Focused specialist (Banned evocation, abjuration, necromancy), Social proficiency, elf sub level at level 3.

Spell tables do not include extra spells from Int/Wis.

Enchanter Spells:

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th

1st
2+3
0+3
-
-
-

2nd
3+3
1+3
-
-
-

3rd
3+3
1+3
0+3
-
-

4th
3+3
2+3
1+3
-
-

5th
3+3
2+3
1+3
0+3
-

6th
3+3
2+3
2+3
1+3
-

9th
3+3
3+3
2+3
1+3
0+3

10th
3+3
3+3
2+3
2+3
1+3

Ur-Priest Spells:

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

7th
4
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
5
3
0
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
5
3
1
0
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
6
3
2
1
0
-
-
-
-
-

12th
6
3
3
2
1
0
-
-
-
-

14th
6
3
3
3
2
1
0
-
-
-

16th
6
4
3
3
3
2
1
0
-
-

18th
6
4
4
3
3
3
2
1
0
-

20th
6
5
4
4
4
4
3
2
1
0

Level 5:
The insidious corruptor is all about magical and mundane manipulation, something a focused specialist enchanter with social proficiency also embodies. The elf wizard substitution levels from races of the wild require the wizard to an elf, which a lesser drow undoubtedly is. Taking a sub level at level 3 doubles the bluff benefit from the snake familiar.
Arcane disciple (domination) gives access to command and enthrall, two useful spells that fit an enchanter well and are usually outside the wizard spell list. Necropolitan can certainly make a face’s job harder – but probably less so for someone working mainly with drow, and it’s necessary for survivability.
Another important point regarding arcane disciple: these are not divine spells, nor do they require faith, reverence, or allegiance to their associated deity. The wording doesn’t indicate needing any relationship to the deity besides having the same alignment. The spells cast are not granted by the deity, nor inspired by it. I chose to represent it as studying magic under the guidance of orcish clerics of Gruumsh.

Level 10:
Almost into the SI. A mindbender dip complements enchanter very well, and will complement insidious corruptor for the same reason. It also has a good Fort save, which allows entry into Ur-Priest – the crux of the build’s spellcasting power, and the final break from Lolth’s influence and from the laws of drow society. A couple of levels of Mystic thuerge mean access to 4th level wizard spells – and through arcane disciple, dominate person is now a 4th level wizard spell, allowing entry into insidious corruptor.

Level 15:
Pretty straight forward, 5 levels into insidious corruptor. Access to 6th level ur priest spells is nice, and bluff and diplomacy are maxed out, with disguise closing the gap behind them. Insidious corruptor’s unique advantages can get plenty of use – Swift enchantment is great for utilising the enchanter slots, and the rest works well for a face with telepathy.

Level 20:
Dear judges: DON’T PANIC!
You may have seen the feat choice at 18 and immediately decided in blind rage to tank my elegance score into oblivion. Don’t do it. Please pay attention to the fact that this isn’t DMM persist, and that in fact I’m not using it for any real shenanigans – no early entry to anything, no crazy Meta magic loops, no mention of n*ght st*cks. Heighten spell is useful, and Ur priest doesn’t get access to some useful low level wizard spells, which would be nice to increase to level 5 or 6. That’s all there is to it. It’s a cheap way to increase DC on a few important spells, nothing too crazy. Back to our usual programing.
The peak of the build. 10 levels of the SI, full face capabilities, 9th level spells. The powerful irresistible compulsion has less punch than it would on a high Cha entry, but it’s still pretty clutch, and the rest can be utilised phenomenally with maxed out disguise, bluff, and diplomacy.
Yeah, not much else to say. The main take away here is – well, It’s probably 9th level spells, but what I was going to say is that 10 levels of the SI make up for the relatively low Cha entry, as far as DCs go – especially once master manipulator comes online.
Complete Divine: Ur priest, arcane disciple, divine meta magic, practiced spellcaster.
Drow of the Underdark: Insidious corruptor.
Libris Mortis: Necropolitan.
Races of the Wild: Elf wizard substitution level.
Unearthed Arcana: Focused specialist, social proficiency.

The Viscount

2020-12-07, 01:24 AM

Dance puppets! Dance!

Name: Sandam "Sandy" - Master of Puppets

Stub: NE Deepwyrm Half-Drow Bard 1 / Sorcerer 4 / Fiend-Blooded 2 / Insidious Corruptor 4 / Fatespinner 5 / Insidious Corruptor +4

Backstory

The abandoned child of two outcasts, a Drow father and Tiefling mother, Sandy grew up rough on the streets of the Nameless City. Always quick with a joke, bawdy song, or limerick and handy with cards, she hustled on the streets for years. A bit smaller than the other orphans, she realized the often times the best way to get by was by manipulating and using other people. That was a good enough strategy to protect herself, mostly, until it wasn't. As her arcane powers began to more fully manifest themselves, Sandy began to move her way up in the ranks of the underworld. Eventually, she realized true power would be found via arcane means and abandoned her tactile and physical means of guile and deception, preferring to rely on her spells.

After years of honing her craft and taking down ever more dangerous targets, Sandy began to hear voices whispering of greater power and realized her true Fiendish heritage. She always knew she was a bit of an outcast, shunned by many for her monstrous mixed parentage, but did not realize the true nature of her eldritch power. Her (presumed) mother's fiendish blood was good for more than some striking eyes and wicked teeth but also powering her very font of power. Sandy, lured by the promise of escaping her life and finally controlling those around her fully instead of subtly. Following this path she eventually realizes her ability to dominate others much earlier than others are awakened to this power. With this new knowledge in hand, she begins to subtly build a network of trusted agents, spies, and thieves in her shadowy underground world. All the while dreaming of something...bigger.

Sanday has spent years, plotting, planning, and moving in the shadows. A woman who was once considered nothing in the city is now, secretly, amassed great power moving through the shadows. No one is quite sure, when it all happened, when they began to swear their allegiance to Sandam. She is the master of puppets, they whisper in the back alleys and rooftops - but she is always listening, to both her trusted agents and those plotting to betray her. Only now is it becoming clear that it is this abandoned urchin child who has taken over the underworld. And yet, at the height of her power, Sandy begins to dabble. She realizes that while she has built a network of mortals, she could dream even bigger. Perhaps taking her own fate into her hands and twisting it to distort the world into a form she prefers, much like she has with the minds of her erstwhile allies.

Sandy has finally unlocked some of the core secrets of the universe, and like everything she touches she has turned it to her own will. Long gone are the days many decades ago where she was the lowliest rat on the street. Now she commands mighty demons and elementals, ordering them as if they were her personal servants. Her underworld empire has moved into the light of day, her power growing immense and unassailable. While Sandy has never truly unlocked the deepest secrets of the magic, she has her own 'pets' to do that for her. In fact, only few creatures beyond the gods themselves can resist her charms and many are all too happy to comply with her demands to earn favor with the self styled shadow queen. Those that do not, are quickly made to do as Sandam sees fit and those that crossed her, have long since been buried.

Abilities

Score
32 PB
L5
L10
L15
L20

STR
8
8
8
8
8

DEX
12
12
12
12
12

CON
12
12
12
12
12

INT
14
14
14
14
14

WIS
10
10
10
10
10

CHA
18
19
20
21
22

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Bard 1
+0
+0
+0
+2
Bluff (4), Concentration (4), Diplomacy (4), Intimidate (1), Know (Arcana) (4), Know (Planes) (4), Perform (Comedy) (4), Profession (Gambler) (2), Sense Motive (4)
Eschew Materials
Bardic Music, Bardic Knowledge, Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Courage +1

2nd
Sorcerer 1
+0
+0
+0
+4
Concentration (5), Know (Arcana) (5), Know (Planes) (5)

Summon Familiar

3rd
Sorcerer 2
+1
+0
+0
+5
Concentration (6), Know (Arcana) (6), Know (Planes) (6)
Blood Calls to Blood

4th
Sorcerer 3
+1
+1
+1
+5
Concentration (7), Know (Arcana) (7), Know (Planes) (7)

5th
Sorcerer 4
+2
+1
+1
+6
Concentration (8), Know (Arcana) (8), Know (Planes) (8)

6th
Fiend-Blooded 1
+2
+1
+1
+8
Bluff (6), Intimidate (3)
Persuasive
Fiendish Companion, Fiendish Heritage +1 AC

7th
Fiend-Blooded 2
+3
+1
+1
+9
Bluff (9), Intimidate (4)

Fiendish Sorcery

8th
Insidious Corruptor 1
+3
+1
+1
+11
Intimidate (6), Perform (Comedy) (6)

Claws of Influence (1 target), Manipulate Senses

9th
Insidious Corruptor 2
+4
+1
+1
+12
Intimidate (8), Perform (Comedy) (8)
Doomspeak
Probe Thoughts

10th
Insidious Corruptor 3
+4
+2
+2
+12
Profession (Gambler) (4), Know (Arcana) (9), Intimidate (9)

Manipulation, Claws of Influence (2 targets)

11th
Insidious Corruptor 4
+5
+2
+2
+13
Profession (Gambler) (5), Know (Arcana) (10), Bluff (10), Concentration (9), Intimidate (10)

Minion

12th
Fatespinner 1
+5
+2
+2
+15
Concentration (10), Know (Arcana) (11), Profession (Gambler) (6), Spellcraft (1)
Ability Focus (Claws of Influence)
Spin Fate

13th
Fatespinner 2
+6
+2
+2
+16
Concentration (11), Know (Arcana) (12), Profession (Gambler) (7), Spellcraft (2)

Fickle Finger of Fate

14th
Fatespinner 3
+6
+3
+3
+16
Concentration (12), Know (Arcana) (13), Profession (Gambler) (8), Spellcraft (3)

Spin Destiny

15th
Fatespinner 4
+7
+3
+3
+17
Concentration (13), Know (Arcana) (14), Profession (Gambler) (9), Spellcraft (4)
Sudden Ability Focus
Deny Fate, Resist Fate

16th
Fatespinner 5
+7
+3
+3
+17
Concentration (14), Know (Arcana) (15), Profession (Gambler) (10), Spellcraft (5)

Seal Fate

17th
Insidious Corruptor 5
+7
+3
+3
+17
Bluff (11), Concentration (15), Intimidate (11), Know (Arcana) (16), Spellcraft (6), Sense Motive (5)

Swift Enchantment

18th
Insidious Corruptor 6
+8
+4
+4
+18
Bluff (12), Concentration (16), Intimidate (12), Know (Arcana) (17), Spellcraft (7), Sense Motive (6)
Improved Familiar
Irresistible Charm, Claws of Influence (3 targets)

19th
Insidious Corruptor 7
+8
+4
+4
+18
Bluff (13), Concentration (17), Intimidate (13), Know (Arcana) (18), Spellcraft (8), Sense Motive (7)

Greater Manipulation

20th
Insidious Corruptor 8
+9
+4
+4
+19
Bluff (14), Concentration (18), Intimidate (14), Know (Arcana) (19), Spellcraft (9), Sense Motive (8)

Greater Minion

Bard Spells per Day

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st - 20th
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

Bard Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st - 20th
4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

Sorcerer Spells per Day

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
5
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
6
4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
6
5
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
6
6
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
6
6
4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
6
6
6
4
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
6
6
6
4
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-
-

12th
6
6
6
6
4
-
-
-
-
-

13th
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-

14th
6
6
6
6
6
4
-
-
-
-

15th
6
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-

16th
6
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-

17th
6
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-

18th
6
6
6
6
6
6
4
-
-
-

19th
6
6
6
6
6
6
4
-
-
-

20th
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-

Sorcerer Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
4
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
5
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
5
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
6
3
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
6
4
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
7
4
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
7
4
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
7
5
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
7
5
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
8
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-

12th
8
5
4
3
2
-
-
-
-
-

13th
9
5
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-

14th
9
5
5
4
3
2
-
-
-
-

15th
9
5
5
4
3
2
1
-
-
-

16th
9
5
5
4
3
2
1
-
-
-

17th
9
5
5
4
3
2
1
-
-
-

18th
9
5
5
4
4
3
2
-
-
-

19th
9
5
5
4
4
3
2
-
-
-

20th
9
5
5
4
4
3
2
1
-
-

Note: These tables do not include extra spells per day from ability scores and extra spells known from Fiendish Sorcery.

Breakpoints

At this level Sandy is a pretty standard multiclass Bard 1 / Sorcerer 4. She's unfortunately a full spell level behind single-classed Wizards so we have to choose our spells carefully and for maximum effect. We can help out our allies with Bardic music and our decent Intelligence plus Bardic Knowledge can also be helpful. Finally, we do have lots of spells per day from both classes together, although they're mostly cantrips. Our high Charisma plus variety of skills means we can also be a good face and talk our way out of social situations.

Sandy is now starting to take shape and some of our earlier trade-offs are paying off here. We pick up Dominate Person early as a level three arcane spell off of the Thayan Slaver spell list via Fiendish Sorcery. This lets us enter Insidious Corruptor early for a Sorcerer. From there we can use Claws of Influence. Doomspeak is a huge boon, it allows a -10 to a single save. We can use this 1/day along with a Belt of Battle to get an extra Standard Action (also 1/day) to pick the scariest thing we can target with our Claws of Influence ability. While this control doesn't amount to much yet we can use it to great effect later. For now we're happy to Influence both ourselves and potentially our familiar, which are reliable targets and can be used to self-buff via Manipulate Senses. We can later target foes and/or potential recruits/allies and use our (limited) Manipulation power. Right now our effective DC is 28 = 10(Base)+3(Lvl)+5(Cha)+10(Doomspeak) although it's still possible Doomspeak fails (DC 25) so we may have to try again and be careful who we target daily.

Now Sandy really gets going. A few levels in the Fatespinner class combined with the Minion ability give us a 9th level effect (Dominate Monster) on almost any target we could face. This allows us to per-round control some truly scary combatants. Ability Focus (+2 DC) and Sudden Ability Focus (+2 DC 1/day) both come online here. Our current DC is: 33 = 10+4+5+10+2(AF)+2(SAF) with Doomspeak DC of 30. We can now also combine this with Fickle Finger of Fate to effectively give one roll disadvantage, which is something like a -5 penalty so we can potentially boost Claws of Influence to an effective 38. We can do all of this without the target even realizing that we are manipulating them. On top of all of this we're still a fairly potent spellcaster, if a few levels behind our focused casting cousins. However, we can probably just manipulate them into casting for us aka the whole point of this exercise.

Finally, Fatespinner's capstone ability Seal Fate really cranks our targets up a notch. Our DC is now 48 (10+8+6+10+2+2+10). Let me repeat, if everything goes well, our DC is 48! Basically anything with a less than +28(!) Will Save is ours to control. The gravy is swift enchantment, more Claws of Influence targets, improved familiar for other helpful forms, better companions, etc. and we have a mini-army at our disposal. We're now at 7th level spells and can Dominate basically every creature on the planet aside from gods. The only real downside is that we're limited to targets with HD less than or equal to our level due to Doomspeak's wording. Luckily we have a bunch of great targets that can do our wok for us. We can also pick up a Helm of Telepathy to make sure our targets understand our complex commands (and we probably could have bought it earlier). That's why they call us Master. Master, Master of Puppets pulling the strings (https://genius.com/Metallica-master-of-puppets-lyrics)!

Equipment:
- Belt of Battle
- Helm of Telepathy (optional)

Sources:
- Dragon Magic: Deepwyrm Half-Drow
- Races of Faerun: Half-Drow
- PHB: Bard, Sorcerer, Eschew Materials, Ability Focus, Improved Familiar
- DotU: Insidious Corruptor
- HoH: Fiend-Blooded, Blood Calls to Blood
- CoR: Doomspeak
- ToM: Sudden Ability Focus
- CArc: Fatespinner
- MIC: Belt of Battle
- UE: Thayan Slaver
- DMG: Helm of Telepathy

The Viscount

2020-12-07, 01:27 AM

They don't call her the red queen for nothing.

Fluff
The scarlet overlords have no names. They are kings, the rest are either brothers and sisters in kinghoood under the scepter of the eternal red, or servants to die and fight for them. THis particular overlord has some dimmed memories of his early life, Raised on the streets of a large metropolin, as the third child of
a low class noble who fell into poverty, nobody gave him a second look. Chaos was everywhere in his life, and thus he found discipline and strength in the church of the grinning witch, Wee Jass, the Crimson inifinity.
He joined the ranks of her sacred order, lookin for criminals and traitors. After a long time in her service, she opened more secrets to him. The ability to finally push his will on others. His understanding that he knows better than everyone around him what to do, was now weaponized. His cold hearted and precise orders helped his allies countless times - his mind have finally completed its transendance into the divine scarlet, and now he serves as part of her. Loyal and blind to mercy, like an attack dog, a leader of the pack in the hunt against those who dare to insult her majesty or oppose her.

Chassis

Alignment: LE
Race: Half drow
Class: Paladin of tyranny 3/crusader 2/consecrated harrier 1/RKV 7/Corruptor 7
Ability scores:
STR 16 DEX 8 CON 10 INT 14 WIS 14 CHA 15
Ending phase:
STR 18 DEX 8 CON 10 INT 14 WIS 16 CHA 16

Table

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Paladin of tyranny 1
+1
+2
+0
+0
hide 2, diplomacy 4, disguise 4, religion 4
city slicker
Aura of evil, detect good, smite good

2nd
Paladin of tyranny 2
+3
+3
+0
+0
hide 2, diplomacy 4, disguise 5, gather info 2, religion 5

Divine grace, deadly touch

3rd
Paladin o tyrannny
+3
+3
+1
+1
hide 3, diplomacy 4, disguise 5, gather info 3, religion 6
Power attack
Rebuke undead, Aura of

4th
Crusader 1
+4
+5
+1
+1
hide 3, diplomacy 5, disguise 5, gather info 5, religion 7, sense motive 2
Feats
Maneuvers and stances, furious counterstrike, steely resolve 5

5th
Crusader 2
+5
+6
+1
+1
hide 4, diplomacy 5, disguise 5, gather info 5, intimidate 1, religion 8, sense motive 4

Indomitable soul

6th
Consecrated harrier 1
+6/1
+6
+1
+3
hide 4, diplomacy 5, disguise 5, gather info 5, intimidate 4, religion 8, sense motive 4, bluff 2
Spell focus (enchantment)
Spellcasting, Blessing of scripture, detect chaos (at will)

7th
Ruby knight vindicator 1
+7/2
+6
+1
+5
hide 4, diplomacy 5, disguise 5, gather info 5, intimidate 4, religion 8, sense motive 4, bluff 4

Spellcasting advancement, Maneuvers

8th
Ruby knight vindicator 2
+8/3
+6
+1
+6
hide 5, diplomacy 5, disguise 5, gather info 5, intimidate 4, religion 8, sense motive 4, bluff 9

Divine recovery

9th
Ruby knight vindicator 3
+9/4
+7
+2
+7
hide 5, diplomacy 5, disguise 5, gather info 5, intimidate 10, religion 8, sense motive 4, bluff 9
G spell focus (enchantment)

10th
Ruby knight vindicator 4
+10/5
+7
+2
+8
hide 5, diplomacy 5, disguise 5, gather info 5, intimidate 13, religion 8, sense motive 4, bluff 12

11th
Ruby knight vindicator 5
+11/6/1
+7
+2
+9
hide 5, diplomacy 11, disguise 5, gather info 5, intimidate 13, religion 8, sense motive 4, bluff 12

Armored stealth

12th
Ruby knight vindicator 6
+12/7/2
+8
+3
+10
hide 5, diplomacy 11, disguise 5, gather info 11, intimidate 13, religion 8, sense motive 4, bluff 12
Persuasive

13th
Ruby knight vindicator 7
+13/8/3
+8
+3
+11
hide 5, diplomacy 11, disguise 11, gather info 11, intimidate 13, religion 8, sense motive 4, bluff 12

Divine impetus

14th
Insidious corruptor 1
+ 13/8/3
+8
+3
+13
hide 5, diplomacy 11, disguise 17, gather info 11, intimidate 13, religion 8, sense motive 4, bluff 12
Feats
Claws of influence, manipulate senses

15th
Insidious corruptor 2
+14/9/4
+8
+3
+14
hide 5, diplomacy 12, disguise 17, gather info 11, intimidate 13, religion 8, sense motive 4, bluff 17
Extra turning
Probe thoughts

16th
Insidious corruptor 3
+14/9/4
+9
+4
+14
hide 5, diplomacy 17, disguise 17, gather info 12, intimidate 13, religion 8, sense motive 4, bluff 17
Feats
Manipulation

17th
Insidious corruptor 4
+15/10/5
+9
+4
+15
hide 5, diplomacy 17, disguise 17, gather info 17, intimidate 14, religion 8, sense motive 4, bluff 17
Feats
Minion

18th
Insidious corruptor 5
+15/10/5
+9
+4
+15
hide 5, diplomacy 17, disguise 17, gather info 17, intimidate 20, religion 8, sense motive 4, bluff 17
Law devotion
Swift enchantment

19th
Insidious corruptor 6
+16/11/6/1
+10
+5
+16
hide 5, diplomacy 17, disguise 17, gather info 21, intimidate 22, religion 8, sense motive 4, bluff 17
Feats
Irresistable charm

20th
Insidious corruptor 7
+16/11/6/1
+10
+5
+16
hide 5, diplomacy 22, disguise 17, gather info 22, intimidate 22, religion 8, sense motive 4, bluff 17
Feats
G. manipulation

Leveled abilities

Initiating:
IL: 14
Stances:
Il 1: Iron guard’s glare
Il 3: Leading the charge
Il 5: Child of shadow
Il 10: Press the advantage
Maneuvers:
Lvl 1:Vaunguard strike, leading the attack, douse the flame, Charging minotaur, crusader’s strike
Lvl 2: Cloak of deception, mountain hammer,
Lvl 3:White raven tactics

Spellcasting:
Not going to go through the entire ranger’s list. You want to prepare some enchantments (Command, hold person, dominate person would be very good here), and use the rest of your spell slots to costumize your character, probably best used for utility purposes.

Level breakdown

1 – 5: Let’s begin with the basics.
At this level, you are playing as a regular melee brute, with a dash of skills on the side – and you are not half bad at either. Your touch attack can pack up a small amount of punch, combined with full bab-power attack, an aura that reduces enemy saves, and martial maneuvers to boot, you are a pretty well rounded character – and the martial-caster dis[arity doesn’t really hit at this level, so you should be able to do just fine.

6 – 10: It’s time to get magical
Right when the disparity I mentioned above begins to put its pressure on your shoulders, you get boosted. With more maneuvers, more skills, and more spellcasting ability (for utility purposes right now, you aren’t that great at combat casting but you have pretty decent utility if needed, and some of the ranger spells can cover for your poor wilderness skills, so you can actually put the track feat for some use on the rare occasion its needed. Your party buffing has also improved – your aura keeps being useful, and now spell focus feat can make sure you might actually manage to hit an enemy with one of your few enchantment spells. You also have more maneuvers that relate to buffing and help you in that area.

11 – 15: Knight of dark rubies.
We start this section by taking the wonderful 7th level of the ruby knight vindicator. More swift actions are always useful…but for you especially so. See more below. You also get some more maneuvers and spellcasting – and now its time to start getting funky.
You get the claws of influence ability, which lets you target living creatures at will as a standard action, and you get some cool abilities – IF they fail their save. Woe to us, since our charisma is only a mere 16 so the chance that someone will actually FALL for your claws is not high, even with the paladin of tyranny’s aura.
Fortunaetly for you, allies are also potential targets of your claws of influence. They will be willing to be targeted, and you can also activate the claws on allies in your free time/while dungeon crawling, as long as you are not too far away from each other – and thus you can solve the pesky action economy problems. What do you actually get from targeting allies with the claws? Well, at this phase, here are some neat benefits
1. Can detect thoughts on the target (good in case of infiltrator situation, and since you can confuse them after detecting it’s a pretty neat way to shut down enemy controllers trying to ruin your day)
2. You give them a moderate bonus to some sense-related skills, a free at will bonus is always nice!
Also, being an investigator of the church and all, you can also use the claws during an interrogation/social situation in order to gain a little extra edge – however, using it on your party members IS an important part of the build.

Combat and buffing wise, you keep getting better at these, and you are at an almost full BaB progression with a great will save (generally the weakest for martials)

16 – 20: The Crimson emperor
Besides getting more general goodies from BaB increase. Law deovotion as a nice capstone feat (although not a nessecary one), you also get a few good bumps for the claws of influence ability.
Now you can target more party members with the claws, and the sense-bonuses have increased into something resembling a “reasonable” bonus at this level – even liches get “only” a +8 bonus to listen checks (;
In addition, you can get the following benefits for the claws of influence
1. Greater manipulation ability. While the former manipulation ability didn’t do much good for you, this one is VERY good for a buffer. All day long, as an immediate action, give one of your buddies a +4 to attack and damage, a +2 to spell save DC, or a bonus movement speed. (Remember all those extra swifts from divine Impetus? They might come in handy now…but just wait for later)
2. Irresistble charm – now, your crew are a rechargeable battery of the ability to add +3 to the DCs of your charm spells. Not the most amazing ability ever…but not bad as a renewable at will which basically costs you no resources
3. The real gem here – you can as a swift action (remember those extra ones?) release a buddy of yours from the effect of your claws in order to cast an enchantment spell as a free action. Why is it important? Because it just turned enchantment spells (the four you have) from a turn-wasting tactic for a martial barely-half caster, into a back-pocket tactic against the right enemy.
Now you can enter combat with your buddies under the claws of influence, you make a full attack/maneuver, and get to cast a basically-quickened enchantment spell at the right moment, which can also be used in conjunction with Irresistble charm (multi-turn set-up or just use divine impetus for a nova casting). Hold person isn’t that amazing as a spell for a gish, since the enemy will just save against the effect on it’s turn. But now you have just swift-action paralyzed the dude right before you unleash your four attacks on him. The only limit is your imagination (and the four spells you have).

In the end of the day…
You got almost full consecrated harrier casting, 14 initiator levels, ¾ BaB, enough spells for wilderness utility and face skills to be useful outo f combat, and a very large amount of renewable/constant buffs and debuffs. In addition for the ability to nove-enchant an enemy if you are in the right condition to do so.

Additional rant

About entry levels:
RKV was taken to 7 to get impetus, but also in order to qualify for the corruptor from the casting of the harrier.
Alternate classes - if your GM waves alignment requirments, you can invest more in charisma, switch the spell focus feats for weapon focus and other fancy stuff, and go for divine crusader of wee jass instead (also frees up your first feat as a city slicker since you don't need the skill reqs for harrier.)

The Viscount

2020-12-07, 01:30 AM

Crunchatize my will, Cap'n!

From the journal of Bhaldrulim Brickarmor, dwarf sailor:
Day 11 since capture. I still think of myself as a stubborn sort, but I feel like the captain's definitely got some kind of control over me. One minute I was defending myself and my ship from her and her murderous bunch, and the next minute I don't have any other choice but to serve as her crew to help her find some stupid treasure? The boys at home won't be proud to hear about this.
Day 17. I can't be the only one she's got ensorcelled. Can I? If she can do this to me, surely she can have done it to that centaur bloke she's got steering this damn ship, or that big orc bastard she's always got chanting those freaking Gruumshian prayers day and night, or that halfling lass up in the crow's nest. Who would follow a monster like the captain? Maybe I can use that.
Day 25. Am I the only one? The rest of the crew won't even give a single hint that anything's up. We had to raid another dwarven ship yesterday. Broke my heart to turn my hammer against my own countrymen! But the captain's word is law, and at least those poor doomed bastards had some proper booze that's ours now. She brought a few of the dwarves onboard just like me! I've gotta be able to reach them.
Day 26. Nothing. They seem to be absolutely petrified with fear at the captain.
Day 41. I think? I think it's 41, at least. Time is hard now. I barely remember life before this ship. Maybe it's been longer? But the captain says we're making progress on finding that treasure she wants, so I guess that's good. Then I can be free, I think? What will I do after we find the treasure and I can leave? At least I guess I'll leave.
Day 66. I've learned a lot of Orcish just listening to the ship's chaplain talking to the captain. Who'da thunk a drow like the captain would be such a loyal follower of Gruumsh? It kind of makes sense, though. Those teachings are soothing, in a way. Logical, even.
Day 50? Maybe? One of the newcomers started talking about a mutiny. Mutiny! Can you believe it? Against our captain?! The very thought terrifies me! I don't even want to THINK about what she'd do if she got wind of that. I got the chap alone and kind of read him the riot act. Wouldn't do at all to have that kind of talk getting out. She's scary enough when she's in a good mood!
Day 139. I dunno why the ship we raided yesterday felt different. The sailors onboard seemed scared to see my compatriots—as is proper!—but seemed saddened and desperate to see me? And they knew my name, or something? I guess it must be my outfit. Even though I'm pretty sure I'm dressed the same as the rest of the crew here. Dunno why they thought I'd stop doing my rightful and proper job just because they begged and pleaded. But they had good booze! I think I need more of that booze.
Day 92. Gruumsh preserve us, those harpies this morning were a handful! How dare they try to get in our way like that! By the One-Eyed Spear, I can't recall the last time I fought so hard.
Day 8R. That troublesome bloke keeps talking about a mutiny. Why on earth would we want to mutiny? How would we possibly find the treasure then? It's like he doesn't understand the importance of our quest!
Day G2#. Back from the scouting mission. I prepared my whole report but never needed to deliver it. Captain just looked me in the eye, started barking orders to everyone else based on exactly what I was going to report, and I felt really dizzy for a while. She dismissed me immediately but it took a while for me to register that. I think I need to sit down.
Day 0~&. The new batch of recruits are all so scared! I don't know why. They should be happy to be chosen as part of our crew! This is such an improvement for them. Maybe a few rousing rounds of the song I wrote will bring their spirits up.
Day 🍍3🍞🍄. I had to kill him. I had to. He wouldn't stop urging us to go against the captain. Our captain! She'll be disappointed when she hears I had to do it, but I hope she'll be proud of me when she hears that I solved the problem!

Cap'n Calwyn, Terror of the Whale-Road
Race: Half-drow
Alignment: CE
Deity: Gruumsh
Blood type: O+
Favorite snack: Toast and jam
Greatest flaw: Murky-eyed (UA pg. 91)
Greatest benefit: Persuasive (PHB pg. 98)

Stats

STR 12 (4 pts)
DEX 12 (4 pts)
CON 11 (3 pts)
INT 13 (5 pts)
WIS 8 (0 pts)
CHA (level-up points here) 18 (16 pts)

LevelClassBase Attack BonusFortitudeReflexWillSkillsFeatsClass Features
1Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 11+2+0+0Bluff +4 (4), Diplomacy +2 cc (2), Intimidate +4 (4), Sense Motive +2 cc (2), Profession: Sailor +2 cc (2)Aberrant Dragonmark: charm person, Persuasive (flaw)Sneak attack +1d6
2Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 22+3+0+0Bluff +1 (5), Diplomacy +0.5 cc (2.5), Intimidate +1 (5), Sense Motive +0.5 cc (2.5), Profession: Sailor +0.5 cc (2.5)n/a
3Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 33+3+1+1Bluff +1 (6), Diplomacy +0.5 cc (3), Intimidate +1 (6), Sense Motive +0.5 cc (3), Profession: Sailor +0.5 cc (3)Weapon Focus: SpearSneak attack +2d6, combat bearing +1
4Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 44+4+1+1Bluff +1 (7), Intimidate +1 (7), Profession: Sailor +0.5 cc (3.5), Knowledge: Religion +1 cc (1)n/a
5Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 55+4+1+1Bluff +1 (8), Intimidate +1 (8), Profession: Sailor +0.5 cc (4), Knowledge: Religion +1 cc (2)Sneak attack +3d6, combat bearing +2
6Scarlet Corsair 16+4+3+1Bluff +1 (9), Diplomacy +2 (5), Intimidate +1 (9), Sense Motive +0.5 cc (3.5)Lesser Aberrant Dragonmark: bestow curseImproved Feint
7Scarlet Corsair 27+4+4+1Bluff +1 (10), Diplomacy +2 (7), Intimidate +1 (10), Sense Motive +0.5 cc (4)Sneak attack +4d6
8Scarlet Corsair 38+5+4+2Bluff +1 (11), Diplomacy +2 (9), Intimidate +1 (11), Appraise +1 (1)Corsair's feint
9Divine Crusader 18+7+4+4Bluff +1 cc (12), Intimidate +1 (12)Greater Aberrant Dragonmark: dominate person, Spell Focus: Enchantment (bonus from domain)Aura, Domination domain, divine crusader casting
10Insidious Corruptor 18+7+4+6Bluff +1 (13), Intimidate +1 (13), Sense Motive +1 (5), Concentration +2 (2)Claws of influence 1, manipulate senses
11Insidious Corruptor 29+7+4+7Bluff +1 (14), Intimidate +1 (14), Concentration +3 (5)Probe thoughts, +1 casting
12Insidious Corruptor 39+8+5+7Bluff +1 (15), Intimidate +1 (15), Concentration +3 (8)Combat ExpertiseManipulation, claws of influence 2
13Insidious Corruptor 410+8+5+8Bluff +1 (16), Intimidate +1 (16), Concentration +3 (11)Minion, +1 casting
14Insidious Corruptor 510+8+5+8Bluff +1 (17), Intimidate +1 (17), Concentration +3 (14)Swift (free) enchantment
15Insidious Corruptor 611+9+6+9Bluff +1 (18), Intimidate +1 (18), Concentration +3 (17)Surprising RiposteIrresistible charm, claws of influence 3, +1 casting
16Insidious Corruptor 711+9+6+9Bluff +1 (19), Diplomacy +1 (10), Intimidate +1 (19), Concentration +1 (19)Greater manipulation
17Insidious Corruptor 812+9+6+10Bluff +1 (20), Diplomacy +2 (12), Intimidate +1 (20), Concentration +1 (20)Greater minion, +1 casting
18Insidious Corruptor 912+10+7+10Bluff +1 (21), Diplomacy +2 (14), Intimidate +1 (21), Concentration +1 (21)Scourge of the SeasIrresistible compulsion, claws of influence 4
19Insidious Corruptor 1013+10+7+11Bluff +1 (22), Diplomacy +2 (16), Intimidate +1 (22), Concentration +1 (22)Master manipulator, +1 casting
20Divine Crusader 214+11+7+12Diplomacy +1 (17), Intimidate +1 (23), Concentration +1 (23)+1 casting

Magic

Character level1sts2nds3rds4ths5ths6ths7ths8ths9ths
90--------
100--------
1110-------
1210-------
13210------
14210------
152210-----
162210-----
1732210----
1832210----
19332210---
203332210--

Pirate
Calwyn is a half-drow—her father was a drow and her mother was a half-orc. She got her dad's knack for speaking and her mom's knack for fighting, and she was raised as a follower of Gruumsh, just like her mother.

Calwyn starts out as a piratical thuggish sort who's mostly interested in bullying and who has zero interest in fighting fair. Thug adds Bluff to her class skill list, Intimidate is there already, she's naturally charismatic, and she's got Persuasive; she's surprisingly talkative. Sneak attack on full BAB is completely reasonable offense, especially early on. She works hard to establish a reputation as a fearsome pirate and commandeers a ship as soon as she's able to. Access to charm person, from her aberrant dragonmark, also aids in her role as a face; she has no compunction about magically manipulating someone's emotions to get what she wants when she wants it.

Rules reminder: PGtE pg. 47 clarifies that a member of a variant subrace (say, for example, a half-drow, which is a variant subrace of half-elf) does indeed qualify for Aberrant Dragonmark.

Rules commentary: If your GM allows the simultaneous use of thug fighter (which gives up heavy armor but keeps tower shields) and drow/hit-and-run tactics fighter (which gives up heavy armor and tower shields), take hit-and-run tactics fighter too! This build is presented with the noncontroversial option, but if you can get away with it, absolutely take the extra goodies offered there.

Captain
Scarlet corsair takes what she's already doing and makes it better. Calwyn takes three levels, gaining the ability to feint as a move action (Improved Feint) or, eventually, as a free action (corsair's feint) and adding to her sneak attack total.

She's trying to add as many people to her pirate crew as possible. Diplomacy, coercion, charms, threats, intimidation, whatever it takes. Bestow curse is honestly just thematic as hell for a wicked pirate captain. If you're willing to try using alternative curses, I feel like "always believe the captain's words are true and genuine" or something similar is completely in line with the printed curses (basically giving the target a big minus to Sense Motive or similar opposed rolls against Calwyn's social skills--considering that one of the printed options is "-4 to all skill checks, ability checks, saving throws, and attack rolls," this seems pretty trivial). Even sticking with the printed stuff in the PHB and the BoVD (see pg. 28 of BoVD) is just fun and appropriate for a creepy pirate captain.

Calwyn's social skills remain strong and her sneak attack remains strong as well. Especially, but not only, with her crew behind her. And/or behind her target, in flanking.

The single rank in Appraise is just an "I'm trained, really!" rank because there was nothing better to do with a single leftover point.

Queen
Divine crusader gives Calwyn casting! Nice to have something to advance. Greater Aberrant Dragonmark gives dominate person, which is perfectly in tune with her character, helps her get what she wants regardless of the wishes of anyone else, and also happens to be the last piece of the puzzle necessary to get into insidious corruptor (per Complete Arcane pg. 72, a spell-like ability meets prerequisites to know a specific spell). Domination, of course, is what she's all about; every spell there is relevant to how she operates.

Claws of influence is great for using on members of the crew! Manipulate senses is very helpful for making sure that whoever's up in the crow's nest is able to easily see and hear whatever might be coming, and the bonus to social skills granted by CoI's base effect just helps cement Calwyn's sway over her crew. Probe thoughts works as a great way for a busy captain to very quickly get what a subordinate has to report without wasting time by letting that subordinate speak, since the insidious corruptor version works instantly and doesn't take time building up. Who cares if they're confused afterwards? It also works on enemies if that's your deal. Tactical info and trading a turn for a turn with no save (once the claws are sunk in) isn't a bad trade.

Manipulation is good debuffing/soft control once Calwyn gets her claws in an enemy and before that enemy becomes turned to her side. Either the enemy makes a suboptimal choice or they're penalized? That's worth a swift action now and then!

Minion gives Calwyn a repeatable way of forcing actions even if her dragonmark is exhausted and her spells are worn out. It's a way to keep the fun going even once the consumable daily resources have been spent, and it's a good way to pass the time if she's waiting for corsair's feint to come back.

Swift enchantment! That's the good stuff. Let someone free from your claws to gain action economy. This is great because it's absolutely possible—easy, even—to load up a claws effect on an ally or even on yourself well before combat starts, so that turns an offensive enchantment effect into basically just a swift action. This is amazing. Eventually, by the way, this becomes Calwyn's pride and joy when she gets access to geas/quest, which has no saving throw and normally takes ten minutes to cast. But when it's a swift action? That's basically an instant win against anything not immune. Marvelous.

Our dear chair, whom I definitely did not manipulate or influence in any way, has stated that insidious corruptor abilities that work on charm/compulsion spells also work on charm/compulsion SLAs respectively, so Calwyn's old dragonmark with charm person benefits from irresistible charm. Still best out of combat, but honestly, the bonus is massive enough to overcome the in-combat penalty.

Surprising Riposte happens to come from the same book as insidious corruptor, so it feels right, you know? It lets you keep a target flat-footed for a whole round after feinting against them. Since Calwyn can feint as a free action with corsair's feint, that's an entire round of sneak attacks! Of course, she has to succeed on the Bluff check to feint first, but hey, claws of influence increases her ability to bluff, so that honestly just plain works.

Greater manipulation is fun for keeping order among the crew! Offer bonuses to follow your orders, and you don't even have to speak out loud to do it. The crew knows better than to disobey by this point. Also, if Calwyn has herself as a claws target (for convenience), this can be used for a free +2 on the DC of a spell.

Greater minion is fundamentally about action economy. The setup round pays off basically immediately as soon as this comes online. Calwyn's abilities are such that it makes sense to spend actions on this! Early rounds involve making corsair feints and full sneak attacks. While waiting for that to recharge, she uses her spells if there are any left that are appropriate and she uses claws and minion to gain an advantage without spending any other resources.

Scourge of the Seas is simply a really entertaining feat for someone with high Intimidate. I honestly can't think of anything more perfect for an emotionally manipulative pirate captain with a creepy and coercive hold over her crew. You see that coming and buddy, you do not stick around to find out if you're next.

Master manipulator is simply useful on its face with no explanation needed, honestly.

Sources

CategoryGame ElementBookPage #
ACFsSneak attack fighterUnearthed Arcana58
ACFsThug fighterUnearthed Arcana51
ACFsCombat bearingOnline (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a)http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a
ClassesFighterPHB37
ClassesScarlet corsairStormwrack65
ClassesDivine crusaderComplete Divine33
ClassesInsidious corruptorDrow of the Underdark84
DeityGruumshPHB107
DomainDominationComplete Divine138
FeatsAberrant DragonmarkEberron Campaign Setting47
FeatsPersuasivePHB98
FeatsWeapon FocusPHB102
FeatsCombat ExpertisePHB92
FeatsLesser Aberrant DragonmarkDragonmarked141
FeatsGreater Aberrant DragonmarkDragonmarked140
FeatsSurprising RiposteDrow of the Underdark52
FeatsScourge of the SeasStormwrack93
RaceHalf-drow, EberronOnline (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebxe/20060224a)http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebxe/20060224a

The Viscount

2020-12-07, 01:31 AM

MIND CRUSH! In Stereo!

Ravre and Apushri Xarann

The principle theme of these builds is the leveraging of Swift Enchantment in the action economy and the use of Claws of Influence as a resource more than an effect.
Ravre uses the SI and Ruby Knight Vindicator to push save or suck spells out with frightening DCs. Through Divine Impetus she can get her CHA as a bonus to her charm DC with Irresistible Charm and then cast a spell like Symbol of Persuasion with Swift Enchantment. In this instance that DC is 30 without items and can be coupled with effects like Coercive Spell and Winter Chill to further decrease her opponent's saves.
Apushri uses the SI and War Weaver to cast more buffs per round than any potential enemy. His Enlarged Tapestry meshes well with the range limit on Claws of Influence and through Quiescent Weaving, Quicken Spell or Swift Enchantment, and his standard action Apushri is capable of casting 6 spell buffs on up to 7 creatures (without items) in one round. Additionally, by sticking with the SI, Apushri’s ability to support his party includes all the Greater Manipulation benefits such as buffing his sister’s DC by another 2.
The bonuses from the Unseelie Fey template aid both twins in survivability through increased DEX and DR and increase CHA which boosts Ravre's DCs and is Apushri's main stat. Winter Chill on Ravre hits her opponent's saves and Autumn Harvest on Apushri give him even more dispelling. Natural flight is always appreciated as well.
Basically all wealth by level goes towards increasing Ravre's DCs and paying for summons/planar binding/allies/hirelings.

Ravre and Apushri are the twin pillars of the guard detail for Malaggar Xarann’s diplomatic delegation. Unlike typical Drow; the twins care deeply for one another. They have a strong sense of pride from being trained by Malaggar himself.

Abandoned to die in the darkness between cities; the children who lay at Malaggar’s feet were abominations. Dark wings hung from their emaciated and shivering forms as they struggled against their own weight to grasp at his robes. Any other of his race would have been disgusted by this shameful display and denied the pair even the simple mercy of a quick death. But Malaggar had not climbed to his seat on the Ruling Conclave by being like the rest of his race and in these lost children he saw a spark. A will to survive that overruled even a Drow’s pride.

The Master of Enchantment and Charm raised the orphan fey twins with singular purpose. As he had saved their lives, the twins would spend their whole lives dedicated to saving his. The brother and sister drove themselves with a force of will unseen in most, and in time they came to command the slave beasts and monsters of Malaggar’s personal security.

Together they formed an unbeatable team known for settling conflicts in an instant. A rapid succession of spells would flow like a river’s rapids from the brother and a moment later the irresistible charms of the sister would crash over the minds of their opponents like a waterfall. More often than not this allowed them to resolve altercations without bloodshed which is a true and valuable rarity in cutthroat Drow politics.

Ravre is a 1st level Warblade for a bit of survivability with Stone Bones and HP. Diamond Mind and White Raven choices now set her up for later. 4 levels of Cleric are 4 levels of Cleric. The Domination domain qualifies her for Greater Spell Focus and gets the spell we need for the SI prerequisite. Mind gets bonuses to social skills and Knowledge gets more nice spells with the CL boost. Ravre isn’t too interested in doing damage and will always want to avoid a slug fest if possible so Knowledge Devotion isn’t her cup of tea.
Apushri is straight Sha’ir up to this point and will eventually get to use his Gen as a target of Claws. 3rd level spells are 3rd level spells.
Ravre takes a dip of Binder for some class skills and Naberius’s social buffs. The first 4 levels of RKV get her a 2nd and 3rd level maneuver: Action Before Thought replaces her worst save and White Raven Tactics is at 3. Divine Metamagic starts fueling Coercive Spell for save-or-suck and Ravre gets her 4th level spells at 10.
Apushri just stacks all 5 levels of War Weaver onto his Sha’ir for all of the action economy goodness of Quiescent Weaving and 5th level spells. He’ll also get into counterspelling since his own actions are saved by the Tapestry.
The appetizer vs the main course.
Ravre and Apushri will both take 6 levels of the SI but Ravre stops there; wouldn’t want to overwhelm her other flavors after all. The sister will hit her 5th level spell and the brother his 6ths.
In the Catalogues of Enlightenment, Ravre will gain the Tyranny domain for some additional DC boost should she need a non-charm spell like Bewildering Mischance and Swift Enchantment opens up the sort of thing mentioned at the beginning whereby she can take a long casting time spell like Symbol of Sleep and cast it as a swift action… maybe right after Bewildering Mischance. Spell Focus Necromancy gives a little nod towards enemies that are immune to most enchantments.
Apushri takes Quicken Spell and Craft Contingent Spell to continue to capitalize on his Tapestry but Quickening is hard without shenanigans like his sister’s DMM. Swift Enchantment helps him get around that will spells like Battle Hymn and Heroism as swift buff options. Contingent also helps with his counterspelling and his high level slots mean he can quicken non enchantment spells into the tapestry.
Back to the TLDR. After 4 more levels of RKV, Ravre is able to use her extra swift actions to throw multiple long-casting-time spells at her opponents each round like Geas/Quest or Symbol of Persuasion. Even though she didn’t stick with the SI for Irresistible Compulsion she still gets boosted by her Tyranny domain and other feats. She has access to 7th level Cleric spellcasting and her Initiator Levels line up exactly to take her 7th level maneuver. Moment of Alacrity further speeds up her spells per round and Quicksilver Motion jives with the swift action mood. Black Lore of Moil doubles into Coercive spell so that the penalty for charming while fighting is offset.
Apushri keeps going with the SI for Greater Manipulation and more Claws to fuel the other abilities. Greater Manipulation's immediate action buffs are great, his 8th level spell slots are in full swing, and the Breaching Obelisk’s time stop style effect is just gravy on top of all the rest of the buff routine.

Ravre Xarann
CE Lesser Drow
Warblade 1 / Cloistered Cleric 4 / Binder 1 / Ruby Knight Vindicator 1-4 / Insidious Corrupter 6 / Ruby Knight Vindicator 5-8

Ability
Point Buy
Race/Template
Ability Increase
Total Score

STR
7
-2
0
5

DEX
7
+4
+1
12

CON
10
-4
0
6

INT
14
0
0
14

WIS
18
0
+4
22

CHA
16
+2
0
18

Ravre

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Warblade 1
1
2
0
0
Bluff 2, Concentration 4, Diplomacy 4, Hide 2, Intimidate 4, Sense Motive 2
Coercive Spell
Battle Clarity (Reflex Saves), Weapon Aptitude

2nd
Cloistered Cleric 1
+1
+4
+0
+2
Bluff 2, Concentration 5, Diplomacy 5, Hide 2, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Religion) 5, Sense Motive 2, Spellcraft 1
-
Domination Domain, Knowledge Domain, Mind Domain, Aura, Lore, Rebuke Undead

3rd
Cloistered Cleric 2
+2
+5
+0
+3
Bluff 2, Concentration 6, Diplomacy 6, Hide 3, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Religion) 6, Sense Motive 3, Spellcraft 2
Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment)
-

4th
Cloistered Cleric 3
+2
+5
+1
+3
Bluff 3.5, Concentration 7, Diplomacy 7, Hide 3.5, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Religion) 7, Sense Motive 3.5, Spellcraft 2
WIS+1
-

5th
Cloistered Cleric 4
+3
+6
+1
+4
Bluff 4, Concentration 8, Diplomacy 8, Hide 4, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4
-
-

6th
Binder 1
+3
+8
+1
+6
Bluff 8, Concentration 8, Diplomacy 8, Hide 4, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4
Divine Metamagic
Soul Binding (1 Vestige)

7th
Ruby Knight Vindicator 1
+4
+8
+1
+8
Bluff 10, Concentration 9, Diplomacy 9, Hide 4, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4
-
Divine Recovery

8th
Ruby Knight Vindicator 2
+5
+8
+1
+9
Bluff 10, Concentration 10, Diplomacy 10, Hide 4, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Sense Motive 8, Spellcraft 4
WIS+1
-

9th
Ruby Knight Vindicator 3
+6
+9
+2
+9
Bluff 11, Concentration 11, Diplomacy 11, Hide 4, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Sense Motive 10, Spellcraft 4
Persuasive
-

10th
Ruby Knight Vindicator 4
+7
+9
+2
+10
Bluff 11, Concentration 12, Diplomacy 12, Hide 4, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Sense Motive 12, Spellcraft 4
-
-

11th
Insidious Corrupter 1
+7
+9
+2
+12
Bluff 13, Concentration 13, Diplomacy 13, Hide 4, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Sense Motive 13, Spellcraft 5
-
Claws of Influence (1), Manipulate Senses

12th
Insidious Corrupter 2
+8
+9
+2
+13
Bluff 15, Concentration 15, Diplomacy 14, Hide 4, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Sense Motive 14, Spellcraft 5
Planar Touchstone: Catalogs of Enlightenment (Charm), WIS+1
Prope Thoughts

13th
Insidious Corrupter 3
+8
+10
+3
+13
Bluff 16, Concentration 16, Diplomacy 16, Hide 4, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Sense Motive 16, Spellcraft 5
-
Claws of Influence (2), Manipulation

14th
Insidious Corrupter 4
+9
+10
+3
+14
Bluff 17, Concentration 17, Diplomacy 17, Hide 4, Intimidate 6, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Sense Motive 17, Spellcraft 5
-
Minion

15th
Insidious Corrupter 5
+9
+10
+3
+14
Bluff 18, Concentration 18, Diplomacy 18, Hide 4, Intimidate 8, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Sense Motive 18, Spellcraft 5
Spell Focus (Necromancy)
Swift Enchantment

16th
Insidious Corrupter 6
+10
+11
+4
+15
Bluff 19, Concentration 19, Diplomacy 19, Hide 4, Intimidate 10, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Sense Motive 19, Spellcraft 5
WIS+1
Claws of Influence (3), Irresistible Charm

17th
Ruby Knight Vindicator 5
+12
+8
+9
+16
Bluff 20, Concentration 20, Diplomacy 20, Hide 4, Intimidate 12, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Sense Motive 20, Spellcraft 5
-
Armored Stealth

18th
Ruby Knight Vindicator 6
+13
+8
+9
+17
Bluff 21, Concentration 21, Diplomacy 21, Hide 4, Intimidate 14, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Sense Motive 21, Spellcraft 5
Black Lore of Moil
-

19th
Ruby Knight Vindicator 7
+13
+9
+10
+17
Bluff 22, Concentration 22, Diplomacy 22, Hide 4, Intimidate 16, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Sense Motive 22, Spellcraft 5
-
Divine Impetus

20th
Ruby Knight Vindicator 8
+14
+9
+10
+18
Bluff 23, Concentration 23, Diplomacy 23, Hide 4, Intimidate 18, Knowledge (Religion) 8, Sense Motive 23, Spellcraft 5
DEX+1
-

1: Moment of Perfect Mind, Stone Bones, Douse the Flames, Leading the Charge
2 (RKV1): Action Before Thought
3 (RKV3): White Raven Tactics
6 (RKV6): Moment of Alacrity, Press the Advantage
7 (RKV8): Quicksilver Motion

Apushri Xarann
CE Lesser Drow
Sha'ir 5 / War Weaver 5 / Insidious Corruptor 10

Ability
Point Buy
Race/Template
Ability Increase
Total Score

STR
7
-2
0
5

DEX
14
+4
0
18

CON
12
-4
0
8

INT
12
0
0
12

WIS
11
0
+1
12

CHA
18
+2
+4
24

Apushri

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Sha'ir 1
0
0
0
2
Bluff 4, Concentration 0, Craft (Weaving) 0, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 0, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 0
Improved Initiative
Summon Gen Familiar

2nd
Sha'ir 2
1
0
0
3
Bluff 4, Concentration 0, Craft (Weaving) 3, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 0, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 0
-
-

3rd
Sha'ir 3
1
1
1
3
Bluff 4, Concentration 0, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 0, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 0
Enlarge Spell
Recognize Genie Works

4th
Sha'ir 4
2
1
1
4
Bluff 4, Concentration 0, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 3, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 0
CHA+1
-

5th
Sha'ir 5
2
1
1
4
Bluff 4, Concentration 0, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 0
-
Elemental Protection

6th
War Weaver 1
2
1
1
6
Bluff 5.5, Concentration 0, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 0
Improved Counterspell
Eldritch Tapestry

7th
War Weaver 2
3
1
1
7
Bluff 7, Concentration 0, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 0
-
Quiescent Weaving 1

8th
War Weaver 3
3
2
2
7
Bluff 8.5, Concentration 0, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 0
CHA+1
Quiescent Weaving 1

9th
War Weaver 4
4
2
2
8
Bluff 9, Concentration 0, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 2
Persuasive
Quiescent Weaving 1

10th
War Weaver 5
4
2
2
8
Bluff 9, Concentration 0, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 5
-
Quiescent Weaving 1, Enlarged Tapestry

11th
Insidious Corrupter 1
4
2
2
10
Bluff 9, Concentration 0, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 10
-
Claws of Influence (1), Manipulate Senses

12th
Insidious Corrupter 2
5
2
2
11
Bluff 9, Concentration 0, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Sense Motive 5, Spellcraft 14
Quicken Spell, CHA+1
Prope Thoughts

13th
Insidious Corrupter 3
5
3
3
11
Bluff 9, Concentration 0, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Sense Motive 9, Spellcraft 15
-
Claws of Influence (2), Manipulation

14th
Insidious Corrupter 4
6
3
3
12
Bluff 9, Concentration 0, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Sense Motive 14, Spellcraft 16
-
Minion

15th
Insidious Corrupter 5
6
3
3
11
Bluff 9, Concentration 1, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Sense Motive 17, Spellcraft 17
Craft Contingent Spell
Swift Enchantment

16th
Insidious Corrupter 6
7
4
4
12
Bluff 9, Concentration 4, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Sense Motive 18, Spellcraft 18
WIS+1
Claws of Influence (3), Irresistible Charm

17th
Insidious Corrupter 7
7
4
4
12
Bluff 9, Concentration 7, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Sense Motive 19, Spellcraft 19
-
Greater Manipulation

18th
Insidious Corrupter 8
8
4
4
13
Bluff 9, Concentration 12, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Sense Motive 19, Spellcraft 19
Planar Touchstone: Breaching Obelisk
Greater Minion

19th
Insidious Corrupter 9
8
5
5
13
Bluff 9, Concentration 17, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Sense Motive 19, Spellcraft 19
-
Claws of Influence (4), Irresistible Compulsion

20th
Insidious Corrupter 10
9
5
5
14
Bluff 9, Concentration 20, Craft (Weaving) 6, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Sense Motive 20, Spellcraft 20
WIS+1
Master Manipulator

Sources
PHB: Lots
Complete Arcane: Black Lore of Moil, Craft Contingent Spell
Complete Divine: Divine Metamagic
Dragon Compendium: Sha'ir, Unseelie Fey
Drow of the Underdark: Insidious Corrupter, Coercive Spell
Heroes of Battle: War Weaver
Planar Handbook: Planar Touchstone
Player's Guide to Faerun: Lesser Drow
Tome of Battle: Warblade, Ruby Knight Vindicator
Tome of Magic: Binder
Unearthed Arcana: Cloistered Cleric

The Viscount

2020-12-07, 01:33 AM

Say that name five times fast.

Grysylla Maure
NE Half-Drow Bard 5/Fiend-Blooded 2/Insidious Corruptor 3/Sublime Chord 1/Insidious Corruptor +7/Fiend-Blooded +2
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/647393639886094337/785503639061266482/imgonline-com-ua-resize-bi2PZOS8Qx.png

An eagle alighted on the overhang that had been set into the cavern wall above the ornate doorway. From the special saddle on its back leapt a cat, first to the overhang beside the bird, then to pad lightly across one of his companions’ pauldroned shoulders as the other rapped on the door and finally down to stand at their feet on the ground.

A woman with long, sleek white hair and smooth skin of light indigo pulled the door open. “Suilad?” She said, then seeing the group standing in the doorway switched to common. “Oh, hi! You must be the ones K sent. Come on in.”

“My name is Obadaih, and this is my granddaughter Aza.” The Elan inclined his head and gestured to the armored human woman next to him as he stepped over the threshold.

“Fuzos von Arkhent” the Tibbit said through his Pearl of Speech.

The drow woman nodded politely at the two larger adventurers, then started in momentary surprise as she looked down at the cat. “Oh, my apologies, I didn’t realize you were an adventurer as well! And an Arkhent man, no less! Well, I should formally introduce myself. I’m Grysylla Maure. Did you ever take Enchantment from my great aunt? Same last name. Older tiefling lady.”

“Oh, no. Banned school.” Fuzos said.

“Always the way with wizards,” she laughed.

“Did you go to Arkhent as well? I lived over by the library,” Fuzos had in fact squatted in the library posing as a lovable stray cat during his college days. “So I never really met too many people on the Ench track.”

“Oh, no. I went to Dad’s alma matter. University of Vashna – Underdark, School of Economics. Go, UVU!” She performed a little cheer, sweeping her hand in an arc as if to draw a ‘U,’ ending next to her eye in a ‘V for victory’ sign as she struck a pose and winked, then raising both her arms up to make another ‘U.’ “I still haven’t altogether forgiven you guys for that castling a few years back.”

Obadiah and Aza being of more modest, martial background compared to the elite magical education of their feline companion, stood back from the conversation somewhat awkwardly. Aza gasped and reflexively reached for her greataxe as a dog-sized spider skittered along the floor towards them, relaxing only slightly when she realized that it was carrying a tray of drinks in its forelegs.

“Don’t worry about him,” Grysylla said, smiling sheepishly at the spider as it blinked reprovingly at her before vanishing into thin air. “Go ahead and help yourselves, and my apologies. I should get to why you came all the way down here instead of gabbing about college xorvintaal.”

“Oh, no, I’m sorry,” Aza replied, taking her hand from her axe and reaching for a glass, a bright concoction of some svirfneblin spirit and faintly glowing fungal juices. “I got eaten by a bunch of monstrous spiders in Xen’drik,” she explained. “Fuzos and his friends had to retrieve my body and pull grandpa out of some quicksand so he could drag me back to Vashna for a rez.”

“Well, don’t go singing the praises of Eolian socialized medicine too loudly around here,” Grysylla laughed. “Makes my job harder. Anyway, you did come here to kill some spiders, though as you probably already know, it’s more than just spiders now.” She turned her attention toward Fuzos as he leapt up beside the tray and batted over a glass with his paw so that it tipped and poured the shot within to mix into a saucer of milk beside it. “It’s probably a good thing that they sent a wizard who banned Enchantment, because these things are immune to Mind-Affecting even when they start from something that isn’t mindless. Inscrutable alien minds following the mad unlogic of the Far Realm or whatever. But it means I’ve got to resort to the usual enchanter’s backup plan when faced with such thing and get someone else to kill them for me.”

“Happy to be of service,” Obadiah replied heartily, raising his glass of dark duergar stout.

Fuzos looked up from his saucer and nodded. “They also hate sunlight,” he offered helpfully.

“So does everyone down here,” Grysylla smirked wryly. “But maybe I can call in a few favors and get the Pelorites involved. I’ll probably have to if the situation gets much worse. But in the meantime, I can give you guys some leads to where some of the creatures might be holed up.”

“There were demon cultists involved as well in Xen’drik,” Fuzos interjected.

“Gnoman?”

“Yeah, seemed like it. There were some drow with them too, so we thought they might have connections here.”

“Well, of the eight houses, and the ones that are friendliest with the gnomes, I would guess Despana to be the most likely to be involved with demonic cults. I wouldn’t just go knock on the door if I were you, but it’s easy to keep an ear to the ground round these parts, and I’ll let you know if I learn anything interesting.”

***

Fuzos glided alongside his companions on eagle-back as they walked back toward Grysylla’s apartment, Aza carrying the head of a drow that had been warped by the strange disease of the far realm which continued to ravage the Underdark. Even the Pelorites for all the discomfort they’d caused the locals, the negative impact on fungal yields, and the amount they’d charged for their services, struggled to contain the problem. What’s worse, Fuzos had had no success in tracing the source of infection for this recent victim. He wasn’t sure whether it was the strange faerness radiation that permeated much of the Underdark interfering with divinations, or if something much worse was afoot. And as the economy worsened under Grysylla’s proposed measures, her reputation worsened, along with that of anyone connected to her.

But on that day, the drow that accosted Fuzos and his companions would offer not a condemnation but a warning. They had a name for economic advisors like Grysylla – who was an exemplar of her type, a half-drow who studied Economics at UVU, and showed up deeper into the Underdark to push market-based reforms favorable to the Eolian Republic on any and every house that they could convince to undergo them, and even more on the nose, was a scion of another Eolian proxy in the House of Maure on her human side – a “Vashna Lass,” (or sometimes “Vashna Lash,” particularly when they worked with the Church of Loviatar) pronounced deliberately with the rhyming “æ” sound of Vashna’s Thrandish Common pronunciation rather than the softer elven one. She would turn on her own adventurers in the end as well, should she ever see a profit in it.

“Listen up cat. Keep your guard up around that woman, and make sure that when she’s scratching behind your ears, she’s not also scratching behind your brain.”

*This was written for my own home setting, essentially to fill in a B-plot for my current campaign to explain what Fuzos von Arkhent has been up to while his player has been taking a hiatus from the game. Said setting is a bit of a kitchen sink as you can perhaps tell from the various Faerunnian and Eberron sources drawn from for fluff here, but that isn’t necessary for the build, which will function in essentially any setting.

Ability Scores8 Str, 10 Dex, 14 Con, 14 Int, 10 Wis, 18 Cha
Increase Cha at all opportunities.

Build Table

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Bard 1
+0
+0
+2
+2
Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 4, Bluff 4, Diplomacy 4, Listen 4, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 4, Perform (Oratory) 4
Eschew Materials
Bardic Music, Loresong, Fascinate, Countersong*, Inspire Awe

2nd
Bard 2
+1
+0
+3
+3
Knowledge (Arcana) 5, Knowledge (The Planes) 5, Bluff 5, Diplomacy 4, Listen 5, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 5, Perform (Oratory) 5, Spellcraft 2
-
-

3rd
Bard 3
+2
+1
+3
+3
Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Knowledge (The Planes) 6, Bluff 6, Diplomacy 4, Listen 6, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 6, Perform (Oratory) 6, Spellcraft 2, Profession (Astrologer) 2
Blood Calls to Blood, Soothe the Beast
Music of Creation

4th
Bard 4
+3
+1
+4
+4
Knowledge (Arcana) 7, Knowledge (The Planes) 7, Bluff 7, Diplomacy 4, Listen 7, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 7, Perform (Oratory) 7, Spellcraft 2, Profession (Astrologer) 4
-
-

5th
Bard 5
+3
+1
+4
+4
Knowledge (Arcana) 8, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Bluff 8, Diplomacy 4, Listen 8, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 8, Perform (Oratory) 8, Spellcraft 2, Profession (Astrologer) 6
-
-

6th
Fiend-Blooded 1
+3
+1
+4
+6
Knowledge (Arcana) 9, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Bluff 9, Diplomacy 4, Listen 8, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 8, Perform (Oratory) 8, Spellcraft 4, Profession (Astrologer) 6
Persuasive
Fiendish Companion, Fiendish Heritage +1 AC

7th
Fiend-Blooded 2
+4
+1
+4
+6
Knowledge (Arcana) 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Bluff 10, Diplomacy 4, Listen 8, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 8, Perform (Oratory) 8, Spellcraft 6, Profession (Astrologer) 6
-
Fiendish Sorcery (Dominate Person)

8th
Insidious Corruptor 1
+4
+1
+4
+8
Knowledge (Arcana) 11, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Bluff 10, Diplomacy 4, Listen 11, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 8, Perform (Oratory) 9cc[/b], Spellcraft 6, Profession (Astrologer) 6
-
Claws of Influence (1 Target), Manipulate Senses

9th
Insidious Corruptor 2
+5
+1
+4
+8
Knowledge (Arcana) 12, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, [/b]Bluff 12[/b], Diplomacy 4, Listen 12, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 8, Perform (Oratory) 10cc, Spellcraft 6, Profession (Astrologer) 6
Obtain Familiar
Probe Thoughts

10th
Insidious Corruptor 3
+5
+2
+5
+8
Knowledge (Arcana) 13, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, [/b]Bluff 13, Diplomacy 5, Listen 13[/b], Sense Motive 4, Concentration 10, Perform (Oratory) 10, Spellcraft 6, Profession (Astrologer) 6
-
Manipulation, Claws of Influence (2 Targets)

11th
Sublime Chord 1
+5
+2
+5
+10
Knowledge (Arcana) 13, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Bluff 13, Diplomacy 5, Listen 13, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 14, Perform (Oratory) 10, Spellcraft 6, Profession (Astrologer) 6, Social Recovery
-
Bardic Lore, Bardic Music

12th
Insidious Corruptor 4
+6
+2
+5
+11
Knowledge (Arcana) 13, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Bluff 15, Diplomacy 8, Listen 13, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 15, Perform (Oratory) 10, Spellcraft 6, Profession (Astrologer) 6, Social Recovery
Improved Familiar (Imp)
Minion

13th
Insidious Corruptor 5
+6
+2
+5
+11
Knowledge (Arcana) 13, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Bluff 16, Diplomacy 12, Listen 13, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 16, Perform (Oratory) 10, Spellcraft 6, Profession (Astrologer) 6, Social Recovery
-
Swift Enchantment

14th
Insidious Corruptor 6
+7
+3
+6
+12
Knowledge (Arcana) 13, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Bluff 17, Diplomacy 16, Listen 13, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 17, Perform (Oratory) 10, Spellcraft 6, Profession (Astrologer) 6, Social Recovery
-
Irresistible Charm, Claws of Influence (3 Targets)

15th
Insidious Corruptor 7
+7
+3
+6
+12
Knowledge (Arcana) 13, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Bluff 18, Diplomacy 18, Listen 15, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 18, Perform (Oratory) 10, Spellcraft 6, Profession (Astrologer) 6, Social Recovery
Versatile Spellcaster
Greater Manipulation

16th
Insidious Corruptor 8
+8
+3
+6
+13
Knowledge (Arcana) 13, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Bluff 19, Diplomacy 19, Listen 18, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 19, Perform (Oratory) 10, Spellcraft 6, Profession (Astrologer) 6, Social Recovery
-
Greater Minion

17th
Insidious Corruptor 9
+8
+4
+7
+13
Knowledge (Arcana) 13, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Bluff 20, Diplomacy 20, Listen 20, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 20, Perform (Oratory) 10, Spellcraft 7, Profession (Astrologer) 6, Social Recovery
-
Irresistible Compulsion, Claws of Influence (4 Targets)

18th
Insidious Corruptor 10
+9
+4
+7
+14
Knowledge (Arcana) 13, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Bluff 21, Diplomacy 21, Listen 21, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 21, Perform (Oratory) 10, Spellcraft 9, Profession (Astrologer) 6, Social Recovery
Practiced Spellcaster
Master Manipulator

19th
Fiend-Blooded 3
+9
+5
+8
+14
Knowledge (Arcana) 13, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Bluff 22, Diplomacy 21, Listen 21, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 22, Perform (Oratory) 10, Spellcraft 11, Profession (Astrologer) 6, Social Recovery
-
Blood of Fiends +1 Saves, Fiendish Heritage +1 Cha

20th
Fiend-Blooded 4
+10
+5
+8
+15
Knowledge (Arcana) 13, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Bluff 23, Diplomacy 21, Listen 21, Sense Motive 4, Concentration 23, Perform (Oratory) 10, Spellcraft 11, Profession (Astrologer) 6, Social Recovery
-
Fiendish Sorcery (Symbol of Insanity), Smiting Spell 1/day

*If your DM says that Half-Drow count as Half-Elves for prerequisite purposes, take Soothing Voice instead.

SpellcastingSpells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th

1st
2/4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
3/5
0/2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
3/6
1/3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
3/6
2/3
0/2
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
3/6
3/4
1/3
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
3/6
3/4
2/3
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
3/6
3/4
2/4
0/2+1
-
-
-
-
-

9th
3/6
3/4
3/4
1/3+1
-
-
-
-
-

11th
3/6
3/4
3/4
1/3+1
2/3
1/1
-
-
-

12th
3/6
3/4
3/4
1/3+1
2/4
2/2
-
-
-

14th
3/6
3/4
3/4
1/3+1
3/4
2/2
1/1
-
-

16th
3/6
3/4
3/4
1/3+1
3/4
3/3
2/2
-
-

18th
3/6
3/4
3/4
1/3+1
3/4
3/3
2/2
1/1
-

19th
3/6
3/4
3/4
1/3+1
4/4
3/4
3/3
2/2
-

20th
3/6
3/4
3/4
1/3+1
4/4
4/4
3/3
2/2
1/1+1

*Does not include bonus spells/day for a high Cha score.

Spells Known
0th: Detect Magic, Songbird, Prestidigitation, Message, Mage Hand, Lullaby
1st: Sleep, Charm Person, Grease, Hypnotism, Improvisation
2nd: Tongues, Glitterdust, Alter Self, Entice Gift
3rd: Glibness, Haste, Dominate Person*, Charm Monster
4th: Ruin Delver’s Fortune, Modify Memory, Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement, Voice of the Dragon
5th: Greater Dispel Magic, Symbol of Sleep, Teleport, Greater Scrying, Greater Blink
6th: Familial Geas, Irresistible Dance, Disintegrate
7th: Hiss of Sleep, Symbol of Stunning
8th: Binding, Symbol of Insanity*
*Denotes a Fiendish Sorcery spell.

Level 5We open things up with straight Bard. Since we won’t be sticking around or investing the necessary resources for Inspire Courage optimization, Inspire Awe is going to be a favorable trade. We take a few other minor ACFs as well. Loresong gives a little bump to skill checks when needed. Nabbing Soothe the Beast as a bonus feat expands utility a bit on a build with a lot of abilities that don’t work against animals. Grysylla’s a solid face, especially with the extra boost from Charm Person, Hypnotism, and Tongues, and has a few potent spells for combat as well, like Sleep and Glitterdust. Our feats go to Eschew Materials and Blood Calls to Blood, and Bard skill points are put to work meeting prestige class prerequisites.
Level 10Fiend-Blooded pays off on the investment in its requirements and then some. Fiendish Sorcery spells can come from other spell lists, meaning that we can nab Dominate Person as a 3rd level spell from Thayan Slaver. Early access would be nice enough on its own, but it also gets us into Insidious Corruptor. Claws of Influence stacks with the untyped bonus from Glibness for a whopping +40 (+58 total before items) which puts us on the level of being able to hit the +50 DC for an epic skill check to implant non-magical Suggestions in people. Obtain Familiar is now online as well, ensuring we always have something to affect with Claws of Influence, and in particular something that shares Grysylla’s Listen ranks, and is assured to get good use out of the potential bonus from Manipulate Senses.
Level 15Sublime Chord improves our spell progression, and with two of the non-casting already out of the way, we feel less of a sting from the SI’s half-casting progression. Insidious Corruptor also makes up for the lost caster levels. Minion’s Dominate effect is nice to have under the right circumstances and Grysylla’s Cha focus and access to Charm Monster to cover non-humanoids make Irresistible Charm especially potent, but the real prize is Swift Enchantment. As it lacks the normal stipulations of Quicken Spell, it allows any spell, even those that ordinarily have long casting times to be cast as a swift action. Being able to Modify Memory on the fly without having to wait for the following round is nice enough, but it really gets wild as casting progresses. Like Sleep, Symbol of Sleep will eventually be unsuited to level-appropriate challenges, but at the levels where it’s relevant can be encounter-ending, and since attuning friends or dominated underlings to the symbol just increases casting time, that cost can be obviated by hard resetting that casting time to a swift action. Sublime Chord’s ability to draw from the Bard list also gives us access to Familial Geas at 6th level. With its 10 minute casting time wiped away, it’s a no-save-just-lose effect as a swift against anything not immune to Mind-Affecting, with an added high DC save imposed upon their next of kin should the target die before completing the task set before them. In addition, having a familiar (now an Imp thanks to Improved Familiar) as an always-available target for Claws of Influence guarantees that Irresistible Charm will always be on out of combat and there will always be at least one creature to release from Claws of Influence for the purpose of Swift Enchantment.
We also nab Versatile Spellcaster, which a spontaneous caster will always appreciate, and can catch up on ranks in some skills now that all our prereqs are met, and pick up Voice of the Dragon which stacks with both Claws of Influence and Glibness to further juice Bluff and Diplomacy.
Level 20We finish out the SI and close out with another two levels of Fiend-Blooded. The Bard list offers another nice discount on Irresistible Dance and we diversify a bit with Disintigrate as our last 6th, giving us a powerful option against constructs and undead who are immune to enchantments (potentially boosted with Smiting Spell once per day at 20th level) and with some use out of combat as well. Then for 7ths and 8ths it’s back to picking up choice spells for Swift Enchantment. Hiss of Sleep and Symbol of Stunning (though the latter could be swapped out for Glass Strike or something if you’re worried about being too reliant on Mind-Affecting) are sped up considerably, allowing them to function as mass SoL effects in combat. With another Fiendish Sorcery right at 20th we get a second 8th level spell known, allowing us to pick up both Binding and Symbol of Insanity to accelerate by minutes of casting time with Swift Enchantment. Symbol of Insanity, like other symbol spells, serves as a mass SoL effect, but with more potential for hilarity on a partial success, and potentially creating circumstances where you can take advantage of Claws of Influence and Greater Manipulation offensively. Binding is just incredibly cool, and even cooler as a swift action. Putting enemies down in a way that they can’t come back from is hard at this level, it can double as an Antipathy effect, and you can use easy to carry, imprisoned enemies as always-available targets for Claws of Influence, along with your Imp, who can help boost the caster level with its Suggestion SLA even if you can’t get anyone else to join in. Our big ticket spells are all compulsions, so Irresistible Compulsion is very welcome, and like Irresistible Charm can always be toggled on out of combat.

Complete Arcane: Obtain Familiar, Practiced Spellcaster, Sublime Chord
Dragon Magic: Inspire Awe
Drow of the Underdark: Insidious Corruptor
Dungeon Master’s Guide: Improved Familiar (Imp)
Dungeonscape: Loresong
Eberron Campaign Setting: Music of Creation
Heroes of Horror: Blood Calls to Blood, Familial Geas, Fiend-Blooded
Races of the Dragon: Versatile Spellcaster
Spell Compendium: Entice Gift, Glass Strike, Hiss of Sleep, Improvisation, Ruin Delver’s Fortune, Songbird, Voice of the Dragon
Unapproachable East: Thayan Slaver

The Viscount

2020-12-07, 01:35 AM

That's a bold move, Cotton. We'll see if it pays off.

Bob Yaga
NE Synad Cloistered Cleric 1/Fangshields Druid 7/Nar Demonbinder 2/Insidious Corruptor 10
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-g7EXNhkwDn0/VsvNC9QW06I/AAAAAAAAGe0/G7fhtU6unW0/s1600/c86ace49d733685d791f6bd0af503420.jpg

The monster that men most revile is the unknown. The thing that lurks in the deep recesses of the mind. The formless, everchanging abomination that defies understanding or categorization, and slithers into some deeper crevasse, narrow enough as to go heretofore unnoticed, yet sufficiently vast to house a behemoth of incalculable scale.

This is the enemy that all unjust war is waged against. For what atrocity can not be rationalized against an enemy in whose shadow such a horror lurks mocking?

And yet, this is that for which the beast hungers. Its flayed hand reaches into the dark corners of the unconscious and scratches the suggestion of its image upon them with bloodied nails, that the ego may be compelled to seek out the creature’s destruction and carve its existence into being along the way.

BogeymanAbility Scores
Str 8, Dex 8, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 16
Increase Wis at 4th and 8th levels, Cha at all opportunities thereafter.

Build Table

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Cloistered Cleric of the Mockery 1
+0
+2
+0
+2
Concentration 2, Bluff 4, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 4, Intimidate 2cc, Sense Motive 2cc, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 2cc, Spellcraft 2
Persuasive, Knowledge Devotion (The Planes)D, Spell Focus (Enchantment)D
Lore, Rebuke Undead, Domination Domain Domain, Trickery Domain, Knowledge Domain

2nd
Druid 1
+0
+4
+0
+4
Concentration 3, Bluff 5cc, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 4, Intimidate 2, Sense Motive 2, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 5, Spellcraft 2
-
Urban Companion, Urban Sense, Wild Empathy

3rd
Druid 2
+1
+5
+0
+5
Concentration 4, Bluff 6cc, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 6, Intimidate 2, Sense Motive 2, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 6, Spellcraft 2
Spell Focus (Conjuration), Iron WillH
Woodland Stride

4th
Druid 3
+2
+5
+1
+5
Concentration 5, Bluff 7cc, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 7, Intimidate 3cc, Sense Motive 2, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 6, Spellcraft 2
-
Trackless Step

5th
Fangshields Druid 4
+3
+6
+1
+6
Concentration 6, Bluff 8cc, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Intimidate 3, Sense Motive 2, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 8, Spellcraft 2
-
Spontaneous Curing

6th
Fangshields Druid 5
+3
+6
+1
+6
Concentration 6, Bluff 9cc, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 9, Intimidate 4cc, Sense Motive 2, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 8, Spellcraft 2, Handle Animal 1
Natural Spell
Wild Shape (Hands) 1/day

7th
Druid 6
+4
+7
+2
+7
Concentration 6, Bluff 9, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Intimidate 5cc, Sense Motive 2, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 8, Spellcraft 2, Handle Animal 4
-
Wild Shape 2/day

8th
Fangshields Druid 7
+5
+7
+2
+7
Concentration 6, Bluff 9, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Intimidate 5, Sense Motive 2, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 11, Spellcraft 4, Spellcraft 4, Handle Animal
-
Wild Shape (Humanoid) 2/day

9th
Nar Demonbinder 1
+5
+7
+2
+9
Concentration 8, Bluff 9, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Intimidate 5, Sense Motive 4, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 11, Spellcraft 4, Handle Animal
Arcane Disciple (Domination)
Fiendish Familiar, Inimical Casting

10th
Insidious Corruptor 1
+5
+7
+2
+11
Concentration 11, Bluff 12, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Intimidate 5, Sense Motive 4, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 13, Spellcraft 4, Handle Animal
-
Claws of Influence (1 target), Manipulate Senses

11th
Insidious Corruptor 2
+6
+7
+2
+12
Concentration 12, Bluff 14, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Intimidate 5, Sense Motive 6, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 14, Spellcraft 4, Handle Animal
-
Probe Thoughts

12th
Insidious Corruptor 3
+6
+8
+3
+12
Concentration 13, Bluff 15, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Intimidate 5, Sense Motive 9, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 15, Spellcraft 4, Handle Animal
Illithid Bloodline
Manipulation, Claws of Influence (2 Targets)

13th
Insidious Corruptor 4
+7
+8
+3
+13
Concentration 16, Bluff 16, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Intimidate 5, Sense Motive 10, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 16, Spellcraft 4, Handle Animal
-
Minion

14th
Insidious Corruptor 5
+7
+8
+3
+13
Concentration 17, Bluff 17, Diplomacy 7, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Intimidate 5, Sense Motive 10, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 17, Spellcraft 4, Handle Animal
-
Swift Enchantment

15th
Insidious Corruptor 6
+8
+9
+4
+14
Concentration 18, Bluff 18, Diplomacy 8, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Intimidate 5, Sense Motive 10, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 18, Spellcraft 4, Handle Animal
Enhanced Synad Multitask
Irresistible Charm, Claws of Influence (3 Targets)

16th
Insidious Corruptor 7
+8
+9
+4
+14
Concentration 19, Bluff 19, Diplomacy 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Intimidate 5, Sense Motive 11, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 19, Spellcraft 4, Handle Animal
-
Greater Manipulation

17th
Insidious Corruptor 8
+9
+9
+4
+15
Concentration 20, Bluff 20, Diplomacy 12, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Intimidate 5, Sense Motive 12, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 20, Spellcraft 4, Handle Animal
-
Greater Minion

18th
Insidious Corruptor 9
+9
+10
+5
+15
Concentration 21, Bluff 21, Diplomacy 13, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Intimidate 5, Sense Motive 14, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 21, Spellcraft 4, Handle Animal
Versatile Spellcaster
Irresistible Compulsion, Claws of Influence (4 Targets)

19th
Insidious Corruptor 10
+10
+10
+5
+16
Concentration 22, Bluff 22, Diplomacy 15, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Intimidate 5, Sense Motive 15, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 22, Spellcraft 4, Handle Animal
-
Master Manipulator

20th
Nar Demonbinder 2
+11
+10
+5
+17
Concentration 23, Bluff 22, Diplomacy 16, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Intimidate 5, Sense Motive 17, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Spot 22, Spellcraft 4, Handle Animal
-
Iron Sign

D denotes a feat from trading in a domain per the rules in Complete Divine or a bonus feat from a Domain Granted Power.
H denotes a feat gained from the Otyugh Hole.
Cleric Spells pr Day

Level
0lvl
1st

1st
3
1+1

*Does not include bonus spells for a high Wis score.

Druid Spells per Day

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th

2nd
3
1
-
-
-

3rd
4
2
-
-

4th
4
2
1
-
-

5th
5
3
2
-
-

6th
5
3
2
1
-

7th
5
3
3
2
-

8th
5
3
3
2
1

*Does not include bonus spell slots for a high Wis score.

Nar Demonbinder Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

9th
-
-
-
2/3
1/1
-
-
-
-

11th
-
-
-
2/4
2/2
-
-
-
-

12th
-/1
-/1
-/1
2/4+1
2/2+1
-/1
-/1
-/1
-/1

13th
-/1
-/1
-/1
4/3+1
2/2+1
1/1+1
-/1
-/1
-/1

15th
-/1
-/1
-/1
4/3+1
3/3+1
2/2+1
-/1
-/1
-/1

17th
-/1
-/1
-/1
3/4+1
3/3+1
2/2+1
1/1+1
-/1
-/1

19th
-/1
-/1
-/1
4/4+1
3/4+1
3/3+1
2/2+1
-/1
-/1

20th
-/1
-/1
-/1
4/4+1
4/4+1
3/3+1
2/2+1
1/1+1
-/1

*Does not include bonus spell slots for a high Cha score.
Nar Demonbinder Spells Known
1st: HypnotismIB
2nd: Detect ThoughtsIB
3rd: SuggestionIB
4th: Dominate PersonAD, Lesser Planar Binding, Magic Circle Against Good, Dimensional Anchor, ConfusionIB
5th: Summon Monster V, Plane Shift, Greater CommandAD, FeeblemindIB, Dispel Good
6th: Mass SuggestionIB, GeasAD, Planar Binding, Summon Monster VI
7th: InsanityIB, Summon Monster VII, Blasphemy
8th: Mind BlankIB, True DominationAD
9th: Dominate MonsterIB
IB denotes a spell known granted by Illithid Bloodline
AD denotes a Domination Domain spell learned via Arcane Disciple.

The Stuff of NightmaresECL 5A quick Cleric dip gets a few important class skills (and ensures that Knowledge (The Planes) stays one via Knowledge Devotion) and the ability to cast Summon Monster I which will be important later before Bob makes the jump to Druid. Urban Companion is generally a superior option for someone not planning on sticking out their career mostly as a straight Druid, and as synads are aberrations, they qualify for the Fangshields Druid substitution levels. The Fangshields are a bunch of goody two-shoes (well, goody no-shoes, technically), but there’s no alignment prereq, and Bob is a more skilled liar than most Druids, so he’ll manage. The first of the sub levels grants spontaneous curing, which is nice to have, but the real reason why Bob is here is still to come. Feats are tight, so he’ll also take a trip to the Otyugh Hole to get in touch with his aberrant nature and the dark corners of his Threefold Mind (though really this can happen at any time before 9th level).
ECL 10Hands are cool, and getting them when Wild Shaped comes in *ahem* handy, but the main reason we’re here is Humanoid Wild Shape. This allows Bob to assume the form of a half-drow, which allows him to gain the Drow Blood ability via the Enhance Wild Shape, and count as a drow for qualification purposes. From there, Nar Demonbinder switches Bob over to arcane casting so as to meet Insidious Corruptor’s Dominate Person prereq via Arcane Disciple and gives him a casting progression more forgiving to a half-casting PrC as a bonus just as he enters the SI. He now has an Imp Familiar along with his Urban Companion. They are perfectly valid targets for Claws of Influence, and can take advantage of the bonus from Manipulate Senses along with Bob’s maxed ranks in Spot.
ECL 15A Bloodline feat is always welcome on a Nar Demonbinder, adding a spell known at every level. Whether for filling in spells known at lower levels for qualification purposes, or, as is the case here, simply to expand the spells that the class gets access to, and unlike Arcane Disciple without daily limits on how many spell slots can be used on them or the need to spend regular spells known on them, though Arcane Disciple continues to pull its weight as well. Between the two feats, Bob has access to a good variety of offensive enchantment spells to make use of with Swift Enchantment, most notably Geas, which has its normal 10-minute casting time reduced to a swift. Less world shaking, but quite funny is Train Animal from back on the Druid list, which similarly has a long casting time that can be reduced to a swift action, meaning that with just a swift action and move action (or even a move action from his Imp which has decent Cha and inherits his Handle Animal ranks), Bob can train animals to perform tricks and compel them to do so on the fly.

Insidious Corruptor has a number of other abilities that also compete for one’s swift action, but as they are (Su) or (Ex) they don’t have verbal or somatic components, and they focus around mental coercion and control, they should count as purely mental actions for the purpose of synad’s Multitask, which is now usable an extra time each day.
ECL 20Bob is able to complete Nar Demonbinder casting for 8th level spells, and due to the way that Bloodline feats work, he actually has the 9th level Dominate Monster as a spell known even absent spell slots out of which he could normally cast it. This wouldn’t ordinarily have much practical upshot, but with Versatile Spellcaster he can cast it by using two 8th level slots.

Bob has also finished out the SI, improving on Manipulation and expanding the list of things to do with a Multitask swift to include Irresistible Compulsion (it should always be established out of combat, but Multitask makes multiple uses per encounter easier to pull off) and Master Manipulator should he ever run out of creatures under Claws of Influence and need to re-establish it to keep pumping out Swift Enchantments in a tough action economy.

Just Your ImaginationChampions of Valor: Fangshields Druid
Complete Divine: Arcane Disciple
Complete Psionic: Synad, Enhanced Synad Multitask
Dragon Compendium: Illithid Bloodline
Drow of the Underdark: Insidious Corruptor
Faiths of Eberron: The Mockery
Races of the Dragon: Versatile Spellcaster
Spell Compendium: Domination Domain, Enhance Wild Shape, Train Animal, True Domination
Unapproachable East: Nar Demonbinder
Complete Scoundrel: Otyugh Hole
Everything else should be in the SRD.

The Viscount

2020-12-07, 01:42 AM

"Where are you from?"
"Back east"
"Where back east?"
"Different places!"

https://themidult.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/julia-roberts-eat-pray-love-meditation-300x194.png

Guru Ghanath Candle’s Beacon

Mayor Trowbridge sat on a park bench and enjoyed a brief moment when one of her constituents was not asking her for anything, a hot cup of tea in hand.

“Pardon me, yerhonor, have you seen that newcomer in the town square?” the baker asked without saying hello. Moment passed.

Trowbridge sighed. “Is there anything that requires my immediate attention?”

“Well, far be it from me to tell you your business”—he actually said right to her face—“but I think you ought to see for yourself. I don’t like the looks of her, myself.”

Trowbridge climbed off the bench. “I’m heading that way anyways. Keep my spot warm for me, eh?” she said, sipped her tea, and left without saying goodbye.

In the square, a woman with a plain sort of covered wagon—not the patchwork Vistani travelers usually brought with them—stood on her head and hummed in some foreign language. A small crowd tried to copy her positioning with various degrees of success. Some were dressed for it in the tight clothing of Phiarlan acrobats. Others tugged at their shirts as they came untucked and covered their faces or just let them fall without a care, giggling in exuberant incompetence as they fell on their backs and scrambled to try again.

Reelection was around the corner, and Trowbridge knew she wouldn’t make any friends asking to see the newcomer’s permits. Instead, she waited for a few moments as the woman led the group through a few stretches punctuated by various other bits of language Trowbridge didn’t know. She was about to head back to to the park when she saw a few of the crowd hand the newcomer coins that disappeared into her palm. There weren’t many places to secret them away in her acrobat’s costume.

Trowbridge put her thumbs under her wide leather belt and walked up to the wagon as casually as she could without looking like a potential student.

“Planning on staying long?” Trowbridge put her elbow against the wagon’s wheel, stuck in place with chocks, the only thing at a convenient height for a halfling like herself.

The woman turned to her and knelt rather than bending at the waist, the polite way to greet Trowbridge’s kind. Now that she was closer, she could see the newcomer wasn’t a woman, but a drow, or something quite like one. Trowbridge considered asking if she was Crinti, but that was hardly appropriate conversation for a first meeting.

“Long as they’ll have me, I guess. Sorry you weren’t here sooner, we just had a great class,” she said. Before Trowbridge could ask if she were using the majestic plural, a small bird with feathers painted like a clown’s flitted down from the top of the wagon and landed on its mistress’s shoulder, digging its claws into the bright orange silk that lay wrapped around her shoulder.

“That would be me. I’m the mayor around these parts, miss…”

“Oh, that’s lucky! I’m so excited to meet you, your majesty. I’m Ghanath. Ghanath Candle’s Beacon.” She clapped both of her enormous hands around Trowbridge’s and shook it like she was trying to mix paint.

“‘Your honor’ is sufficient. You know, I’m sure the guard on duty at the town wall told you, but if you’re going to be staying here, miss Candle’s Beacon, you’re going to need to contribute to the city’s upkeep. Even if you’re staying in your wagon, you’re still using our roads, drinking our water, you get the idea,” Trowbridge said as delicately as she could.

She pulled her hand back and rubbed at her knuckles, trying not to be too obvious about feeling whether all the stones in her signet ring were still there.

“Oh, I understand completely. It’s important to show deference to one’s elders. My mentor in Toril taught me that.” Candle’s Beacon sighed. “Such a wise philosophy the Mulan have.”

Trowbridge decided to ruminate later on whether she’d been insulted. “Oh, is that where you’re traveling from?” she said, figuring she might as well satisfy her curiosity since getting her taxes from this woman didn’t seem like it was going to be easy.

“Huh? Oh, no, but I get that a lot. I’ve just got such an admiration for their culture, you know?” Candle’s Beacon wiped at her brow. The white ink that traced a pattern that looked vaguely like a Thayan wizard’s tattoo smudged against her gray-black skin, apparently dye or paint.

“Yes, of course. Well bearing that in mind, there’s a fee to park your wagon here. Other people need to use this square, you know,” Trowbridge said.

“Oh, right, I totally understand. I’m afraid I’ve already kicked up, though,” Candle’s Beacon said and showed the palms of her hands, bereft of coins.

“Please explain yourself.”

“Well, you see, it’s like this: these techniques have been passed down for many generations, and the master who taught them to me still needs to pay her bills, so when I teach a class, some of what I earn goes to her. I’m afraid there isn’t anything I can do about it. But I do have good news,” she said and reached for something in the wagon that didn’t sound like money.

“If you’ll permit me to stay a little while longer, if I can pass the secrets on, then when my students travel the land and kick up to me, I’ll be able to pay you back. You’ll do that for me, won’t you, your honor? You seem like such an understanding sort.”

“Understanding sort,” her parrot bleated to punctuate her point. Something made Trowbridge want to look the other way.

“I suppose that would be all right,” she found herself saying.

“I knew you’d see it my way,” Candle’s Beacon said. She handed Trowbridge a small jeweled figurine carved to look like a toad. “A token of my appreciation,” she said.

Trowbridge hefted it in her hand to see if it was real.

“Just glass, I’m afraid,” Candle’s Beacon said, as though privy to her thoughts. “If I can move about a hundred more of those, my master will teach me how to make real ones next time I’m back in Toril.”

“And that’ll happen if your students move what, about ten each?”

“Now you’re getting it! I’m sure you’re very busy with your mayor stuff, but do you think you’d like to join us tomorrow? It’s our beginner class, so it should be easy for any of our older students.”

Trowbridge frowned.

“Uh, should any show up, I mean,” Candle’s Beacon said. Trowbridge’s features softened.

“You know, I don’t like to brag, but I’m quite adept at gemcutting. I could probably show you how to make these faster,” Trowbridge said, running her thumb along the frog’s head, slightly uneven.

“You know, that would be great! You think you could bring about ten tomorrow morning?”

“I—I don’t think that would be a problem, miss Candle’s Beacon.”

She winced then smiled. “Oh, actually, it’s traditional among the Seren peoples to address one’s shepherd in this path as guru,” she said.

“Oh, my mistake, guru. Wait, didn’t you say you trained in Toril?”

Guru Candle’s Beacon laughed. “Oh, I’ve trained all over. We can talk about it in tomorrow’s class.” She patted Trowbridge’s head which somehow didn’t upset her in the least. “See you then.”

She couldn’t wait.

NE lesser drow shaman/mystic wanderer 4/ contemplative 1/ insidious corruptor 10

str 8
dex 8
con 14
int 14
wis 16 (increases here)
cha 16

racial mods: +2 dex -2 con

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
shaman 1
+0
+0
+0
+2
bluff 4, craft (alchemy) 3, diplo 4, k (nature) 1, k (religion) 4 perform 3, profession (herbalist) 1, sm 4 (2)
favored (knowledge: religion)
improved unarmed strike (bonus), animal companion, domains (trickery, nature)

2nd
shaman 2
+1
+0
+0
+3
diplo 1 (5), k (nature) 2 (3), k (religion) 1 (5), profession (herbalist) 2 (3)

spirit sight

3rd
shaman 3
+2
+1
+1
+3
bluff 2 (6), diplo 1 (6), k (religion) 1 (6), perform (dance) 2 (1)
extend spell
rebuke undead

4th
shaman 4
+3
+1
+1
+4
bluff 1 (7), concentration 1, diplo 1 (7), k (religion) 1 (7), perform (dance) 2 (2)
iron will (bonus)

5th
shaman 5
+3
+1
+1
+4
bluff 1 (8), concentration 1 (2), diplo 1 (8), k (religion) 1 (8), perform (dance) 2 (3)

spirits’ favor

6th
mystic wanderer 1
+3
+1
+3
+6
concentration 1 (3), k (religion) 1 (9), sm 2 (1)
persuasive
glory of the divine, sleep

7th
mystic wanderer 2
+4
+1
+4
+7
concentration 1 (4), k (religion) 1 (10), sm 2 (2)

familiar, lore of nature

8th
mystic wanderer 3
+4
+2
+4
+7
concentration 1 (5), k (religion) 1 (11) sm 2 (3)
attune gem (bonus)
gem magic, resist charm

9th
mystic wanderer 4
+5
+2
+5
+8
bluff 1 (9), k (religion) 1 (13*) sm 2 (4)
brew potion (bonus), primary contact (knowledge:religion, +1 rank)

10th
contemplative 1
+5
+2
+5
+10
diplo 4 (12)

bonus domain (domination), divine health

11th
insidious corruptor 1
+5
+2
+5
+12
bluff 5 (14), diplo 1 (13)

Claws of influence (1 target), manipulate senses

12th
insidious corruptor 2
+6
+2
+5
+13
concentration 6 (10)
trickery devotion
Probe thoughts

13th
insidious corruptor 3
+6/+1
+3
+6
+13
concentration 6 (16)

Manipulation, claws of influence (2 targets)

14th
insidious corruptor 4
+7/+2
+3
+6
+14
diplo 4 (17), forgery 2

Minion

15th
insidious corruptor 5
+7/+2
+3
+6
+14
bluff 4 (18), diplo 1 (18), forgery 1 (3)
persistent refusal
Swift enchantment

16th
insidious corruptor 6
+8/+3
+4
+7
+15
bluff 1 (19), diplo 1 (19), social recovery

Irresistible charm, claws of influence (3 targets)

17th
insidious corruptor 7
+8/+3
+4
+7
+15
k (planes) 4 (2), forgery 2 (5)

Greater manipulation

18th
insidious corruptor 8
+9/+4
+4
+7
+16
spellcraft 6
mastery of faerie enchantment
Greater minion

19th
insidious corruptor 9
+9/+4
+5
+8
+16
bluff 1 (20), diplo 1 (20), forgery 4 (9)

Irresistible compulsion, claws of influence (4 targets)

20th
insidious corruptor 10
+10/+5
+5
+8
+17
bluff 1 (21), diplo 1 (21), forgery 4 (13)

Master manipulator

Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
3
1+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
4
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
4
2+1
1+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
5
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
5
3+1
2+1
1+1
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
5
3+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
6
4+1
3+1
2+1
1
-
-
-
-
-

8th
6
4+1
3+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-
-

9th
6
4+1
4+1
3+1
2+1
1+1
-
-
-
-

10th
6
4+1
4+1
3+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-

11th
6
4+1
4+1
3+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-
-

12th
6
4+1
4+1
4+1
3+1
2+1
1+1
-
-
-

13th
6
4+1
4+1
4+1
3+1
2+1
1+1
-
-
-

14th
6
4+1
4+1
4+1
3+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-

15th
6
4+1
4+1
4+1
3+1
3+1
2+1
-
-
-

16th
6
4+1
4+1
4+1
4+1
3+1
2+1
1+1
-
-

17th
6
4+1
4+1
4+1
4+1
3+1
2+1
1+1
-
-

18th
6
4+1
4+1
4+1
4+1
3+1
3+1
2+1
-
-

19th
6
4+1
4+1
4+1
4+1
3+1
3+1
2+1
-
-

20th
6
4+1
4+1
4+1
4+1
4+1
3+1
2+1
1+1
-

Shaman offers great versatility through its spell list and supplements them with a breadth of interesting domain choices. Trickery helpfully provides bluff in order to pay insidious corruptor’s taxes, and nature offers us good spells and another pool of turns for later on to power divine feats. Improved unarmed strike helps shore up your offensive capability in melee, and your animal companion can protect you and offer flanks to you and your party as well. Spirit sight helps keep you abreast of unfriendly entities and potential allies alike. Turn undead can help out protecting you from undead, a common enemy at low levels and provide extra protection as well as laying groundwork for divine feats, and spirits’ favor lets you add cha to your saves to bolster defense. Spirit shaman helpfully provides iron will as well to help you get ready for mystic wanderer.

Congratulations, you are now in mystic wanderer, an obscure class that beefs up your spellcasting prior to insidious corruptor. Feel free to ditch your light armor, as you pick up your cha mod as a profane bonus to ac when unarmored through glory of the divine. You can also throw around sleep to expand your spell repertoire and have a familiar to aid you with scouting and reconnaissance. A parrot (simple cosmetic alteration to the raven) is the traditional choice since it can fly, speak, and tie knots and whatnot, and it’s helpful here as well for these reasons. Gem magic lets you store spells for later, especially helpful with some of the situational options on the shaman list, such as create spring which you may not be preparing every day, and to help save your domain spells for later on shoudl the situation call for it. You can also brew up the relevant spells as potions which improves versatility.

Favored grants you an additional rank in knowledge (religion) due to your affiliation with a political organization which offers it as an associated skill. This allows you to qualify for contemplative early to help you enter insidious corruptor in time to finish it. Contemplative grants the domination domain from The Mockery, which gives you the final thing insidious corruptor asks: dominate person. It is time to enter.

You’re in insidious corruptor from now on and are bringing other tools to bear to aid in your abilities from the class. Trickery devotion lets you keep enemies guessing with your clone which gradually becomes more convincing, and provides handy distractions in combat. Extend spell helps your bread and butter spells like dominate person only need be cast half as often for the time being. Keep your familiar nearby and you will always have a way to quicken the casting of these spells through swift enchantment by putting your claws on him so you will always have a release handy.

Mastery of faerie enchantment is now up and automatically extends enchantments without adjusting either casting time or spell level which helps you economize. You now have access to unique shaman tools such as compel to forcibly alter enemy alignment to make them more susceptible to your manipulations or get them fighting amongst one another, and it can easily be sped up via swift enchantment.

lesser drow: web article (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040215a&page=2)
oriental adventures: shaman
magic of faerun: mystic wanderer, attune gem
drow of the underdark: insidious corruptor
complete divine: contemplative
cityscape: favored, primary contact
srd: improved unarmed strike, iron will, persuasive, brew potion, extend spell
fiendish codex II: persistent refusal
player’s guide to eberron: mastery of faerie enchantment, the mockery
stormwrack: parrot
complete scoundrel: skill tricks

The Viscount

2020-12-07, 01:48 AM

Let's get pumped!

The Discourager of Hesitancy
https://i.imgur.com/AhYRkED.jpg

NE Lesser Drow Shugenja 8/Elemental Archon 2/Insidious Corruptor 10

Stats (with racial adjustments)
Str 10
Dex 8 (10)
Con 14 (12)
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 18 (increases)

Backstory
Elfred eyed the flyer with a weighted mixture of interest and bemusement.

“Listen to this, dear. Some nut sent an ad in with the paper.
‘Change your life in just 10 sessions! First one is free! Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back!’”
“Well what’s so wrong with that, Elfred?”
“Three sentences ending with exclamation points? Is he a businessman or a perky dog? He must be on his own hype if he’s that excited. I don’t buy it.”
“It sounds like you’re interested to find out what it’s like. What kind of stuff can he do?”
“Anything, if this is to be believed. ‘Finish that novel you’ve been working on! Increase your carrying capacity! Finally clean out the attic!’ Does this guy know he can use periods?”
“Oh Elfred, don’t be such a wet blanket. He sounds fun. And the back garden could use some tending to.”
“Dear I told you, I just haven’t found the motivation.”
“Well if you don’t find it soon, we’re going to start growing violet fungus in the back, and you know how that stuff attracts ruffians. Look the first session is free anyway. If it’s that bad you can stop.”
“All right, dear.”

***
Elfred wasn’t sure what he expected the self-aggrandizing man called the Discourager of Hesitancy to look like, but it wasn’t a scrawny drow in voluminous robes. He met Elfred at his house promptly at dawn, which already irritated him. He hoped the bum wouldn’t show.
“Good morning to you noble sir! I hope you’re ready to seize the day by the throat and pin it!”
“Give it a rest. I already agreed to test your service, you don’t need to keep selling me. Why did we need to start so early anyway?”
“Ohoho, you wound me good sir! I’m just trying to give you the full benefit of my service. You know, you seem like a smart man who knows what he wants and how to do it. In my experience, most people who need my service are a lot like you. It’s not that they can’t do something, it’s that they won’t.”
“Won’t? Are you calling me lazy?”
“Nothing of the sort, nothing of the sort my good man! I’m humanoid too, I know that life gets in the way of things. We all have things that we mean to do, but we just can’t seem to get done. That’s what I’m here for. I help people to overcome the hesitancy in their life and achieve all that they want.”
“And how do you do that? Encouraging words and that overactive energy?”
“Hahaha, aren’t you a corker! You’d need large quantities of substances that are… rather frowned upon in the region if you wanted my energy!”
“What was that?”
“Oh don’t be so serious! I know you hired me to do a job, but that doesn’t mean we can’t have fun while we’re here. Anyway, to business. I specialize in motivation that actually works. You haven’t gotten things done because it’s been too easy to choose not to do them. I’m going to show you how to make it harder. And I’ve got many ways to do it. If it’s positive motivation you’re looking for, I know all the ways to make you want to do exactly what it is you think you don’t. If you’re more the sort for disincentives, my buddies here are experts in that.”
“Buddies?”
“Oh how rude! I haven’t introduced you!”
At this the comically hyperactive drow produced a multitoned whistling halfway between a teakettle and a winter wind, and three chattering creatures swooped in in a chaotic swirl. They tumbled around each other as they wrestled and shrieked, barely managing to avoid hitting the delicate crockery on the credenza.
“Hey watch it!”
“Not to worry my good sir, they are masters of dexterity and grace. They’re very helpful for motivating people to go on a run in the morning.”
At this they stopped for the briefest of moments, looking up at their master with eager grins revealing sharp teeth.
“But we’re here to take care of that garden. Let’s get to it!”

***
Elfred collapsed into his comfortable chair, his joints aching in protest. His arms were covered in scratches from ripping up thorny weeds. He was bone tired. Many times during the ordeal he planned to stand up to go back inside, but that indefatigable nuisance always had just the right word to keep him from doing it. He resented it at the time, but he had to admit, the garden was done.
“That was great work today my good man! I’m really proud of you. I’ve got just the thing for those little scrapes.”
Elfred opened his mouth to deny whatever snake oil he was going to sell, but was surprised to find the drow only making smooth circular motions and quietly chanting as he laid hands upon the worst of the damage. He felt cooling relief as the pain melted away.
“All-inclusive package. I want to make sure you get the most out of this, and the best way to do that is to keep you feeling your best. My rates are high, but I’m sure you’ll find they’re quite fair. I’ll see you tomorrow at dawn. Unless of course, you’re not satisfied?”
“I’m no quitter. Tomorrow at dawn.”

***
“The back garden looks wonderful Elfred. I’m so glad you found the time.”
“Don’t thank me, thank the Discourager of Hesitancy.”
“Oh, so he’s not a nut after all?”
“No dear, he knows what he’s doing.”
Elfred couldn’t stop himself from smiling as he thought about the work he’d do tomorrow. He found himself liking the drow, though he couldn’t say why.
Build

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Shugenja 1
+0
+0
+0
+2
Concentration 4, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Nature) 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 4, (Bonus Languages: Drow Sign Language, Auran)
Magical Training
Elemental Focus (Air), Order of the Ineffable Mystery, Sense Elements

2nd
Shugenja 2
+1
+0
+0
+3
Concentration 5, Knowledge (Nature) 5, Knowledge (The Planes) 5, Spellcraft 1

Elemental Recognition

3rd
Shugenja 3
+1
+1
+1
+3
Concentration 6, Knowledge (Nature) 6, Knowledge (The Planes) 6, Spellcraft 4
Persuasive

4th
Shugenja 4
+2
+1
+1
+4
Concentration 7, Knowledge (Nature) 7, Knowledge (The Planes) 7, Spellcraft 5

5th
Shugenja 5
+2
+1
+1
+4
Concentration 8, Knowledge (Nature) 8, Knowledge (The Planes) 8, Spellcraft 6

6th
Shugenja 6
+3
+2
+2
+5
Concentration 9, Diplomacy 5, Knowledge (Nature) 9
Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightenment (Trickery Domain)

7th
Shugenja 7
+3
+2
+2
+5
Bluff 2, Concentration 10, Knowledge (Nature) 10

8th
Shugenja 8
+4
+2
+2
+6
Bluff 6

9th
Elemental Archon 1
+4
+4
+2
+8
Bluff 8, Sense Motive 2
Serpent Bloodline
Mephit Underlings (Air, Dust, and Ice), Skilled City Dweller (Survival to Sense Motive)

10th
Elemental Archon 2
+5
+5
+2
+9
Bluff 9, Concentration 11, Sense Motive 4

Power of Arrogance

11th
Insidious Corruptor 1
+5
+5
+2
+11
Bluff 12, Diplomacy 8

Claws of Influence (1 target), Manipulate Senses

12th
Insidious Corruptor 2
+6/+1
+5
+2
+12
Bluff 15, Diplomacy 11
Daylight Adaptation
Probe Thoughts

13th
Insidious Corruptor 3
+6/+1
+6
+3
+12
Bluff 16, Diplomacy 14

Manipulation, Claws of Influence (2 targets)

14th
Insidious Corruptor 4
+7/+2
+6
+3
+13
Bluff 17, Concentration 12, Diplomacy 17, Sense Motive 5

Minion

15th
Insidious Corruptor 5
+7/+2
+6
+3
+13
Bluff 18, Concentration 16, Diplomacy 18
Coercive Spell
Swift Enchantment

16th
Insidious Corruptor 6
+8/+3
+7
+4
+14
Bluff 19, Concentration 19, Diplomacy 19

Irresistible Charm, Claws of Influence (3 targets)

17th
Insidious Corruptor 7
+8/+3
+7
+4
+14
Bluff 20, Concentration 20, Diplomacy 20, Spot 2, Listen 1

Greater Manipulation

18th
Insidious Corruptor 8
+9/+4
+7
+4
+15
Bluff 21, Concentration 21, Diplomacy 21, Spot 3, Listen 3
Magic of the Land
Greater Minion

19th
Insidious Corruptor 9
+9/+4
+8
+5
+15
Bluff 22, Concentration 22, Diplomacy 22, Spot 5, Listen 4

Irresistible Compulsion, Claws of Influence (4 targets)

20th
Insidious Corruptor 10
+10/+5
+8
+5
+18
Bluff 23, Concentration 23, Diplomacy 23, Spot 6, Listen 6

Master Manipulator

Spells
Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
5
3

2nd
6
4

3rd
6
5

4th
6
6
3

5th
6
6
4

6th
6
6
5
3

7th
6
6
6
4

8th
6
6
6
5
3

9th
6
6
6
6
4

10th
6
6
6
6
5
3

11th
6
6
6
6
5
3

12th
6
6
6
6
6
4

13th
6
6
6
6
6
4

14th
6
6
6
6
6
5
3

15th
6
6
6
6
6
5
3

16th
6
6
6
6
6
6
4

17th
6
6
6
6
6
6
4
-
-
-

18th
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
3

19th
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-

20th
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
4
-
-

Spells Known (order spell first (with**), then Serpent Bloodline spells, then air spells (with *), then remaining)
0th: Resistance**, Daze*, Ghost Sound*, Guidance*, Know Direction*, Detect Magic, Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, Light (Magical Training: Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Sonic Snap)
1st: Entropic Shield**, Cause Fear, Disguise Self*, Silent Image*, Sleep*, Faerie Fire, Obscuring Mist
2nd: Obscure Object**, Hypnotic Pattern, Color Spray*, Minor Image*, Silence*, Bewildering Visions, Fog Cloud
3rd: Dispel Magic**, Sepia Snake Sigil, Haste*, Invisibility*, Wind Wall*, Call Lightning, Protection from Energy
4th: Spell Immunity**, Phantasmal Killer, Air Walk*, Discern Lies*, Hallucinatory Terrain*, Cure Critical Wounds, Restoration
5th: Spell Resistance**, Dominate Person, Dimension Door*, Greater Invisibility*, Bewildering Mischance, Feeblemind
6th: Antimagic Field**, Repulsion, Cloudkill*, Teleport*, True Seeing
7th: Spell Turning**, Power Word Blind, Mislead*, Resurrection
Level 5
Shugenja’s an odd duck. You technically have more cantrips of your element known than there are cantrips of your element on the list, so I’ve left that phantom 5th cantrip off the list. Magical training gives a few more cantrips, I’ve gone for utility. The real use will come later. Air shugenja focuses more on divination and illusion at the expense of abjuration, and it’s got some fun stuff on there that matches the general vibe the SI is going for.
Level 10
Add some more utility to the spell list, now a bit more survivable with some BFC and defensive options. Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightenment (a mouthful, I know) gives access to the domain power of a chosen domain. I’ve chosen Trickery domain to get Bluff as a class skill, which is neatly provided by Akadi, who is revered to qualify for Elemental Archon. A note on qualifying for Elemental Archon. It requires the ability to cast protection from elements as a divine spell. This is a 3.0 spell that does not exist in 3.5. Protection from energy is a 3.5 spell with the exact same effect. The update is not explicitly listed in the 3.0 to 3.5 update, though mass resist elements was updated to mass resist energy. Protection from elements was on shugenja’s list in OA, and is replaced by protection from energy in CDiv, so if this isn’t qualifying, I don’t know what is. Elemental Archon provides constant companions in the form of 3 mephits, who can scout, fight, and generally help out. They’ll really kick in once in the SI. Serpent Bloodline adds some neat spells known, most particularly dominate person, to get into the SI. It requires the ability to cast arcane spells spontaneously, which is why we have magical training.
Level 15
Into the SI. Daylight adaptation removes an irritating drow drawback. Coercive spell makes even damaging spells into debuffs. Slap it on to Sonic Snap for a cheap means of reducing will saves. The SI’s abilities are… distinctive. Claws of influence and Manipulation can amusingly be used on yourself and your allies as long as they are legal targets, and 4 targets by the end means you can cover yourself and your mephitis all at once. Boost everyone’s spot and listen for out of combat stuff. When it comes time for combat, you can use the abilities to push foes to attack “you” and then pull the rug out with illusions and invisibility. Push a melee foe to attack a mephit that’s out of reach, and the penalty is essentially guaranteed.
Level 20
Lot of the same tactics apply, but better. With mislead you can really get funky with effects targeting “you.” Your hype is now strong enough to work on yourself, so feel free to tell yourself what target to attack or cast against for the boost. Magic of the Land is a fun little addition to squeeze some healing out of your buffs. You’ve got some great options for combat, but don’t be afraid to teleport/mislead out if things get too real.
Sources
Shugenja: Complete Divine
Lesser Drow: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040215a&page=2]Web (
Elemental Archon: Faiths and Pantheons
Magical Training: Player’s Guide to Faerun
Bewildering Visions, Bewildering Mischance: Complete Champion
Daylight Adaptation: Races of Eberron
Planar Touchstone, Catalogues of Enlightenment: Planar Handbook
Serpent Bloodline: Dragon Compendium
Coercive Spell: Drow of the Underdark
Magic of the Land: Races of the Wild
Skilled City Dweller: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a]Urban ( Dead ( [url) Levels II

The Viscount

2020-12-07, 01:50 AM

That should be all of them. Judges, over to you!

Thurbane

2020-12-07, 01:52 AM

Yep, Vizzini hit hard. Some really creative entries there.

My stub was Lesser Drow Beguiler 11/Mindbender 1/IC 8 (not in that order). Using Versatile Spellcaster to get 9ths (and for early entry).

Got a ton of stuff going on IRL right now, but if I get time I will try to judge.

H_H_F_F

2020-12-07, 04:32 AM

Very interesting round. Well done, everyone!

Gruftzwerg

2020-12-07, 05:36 AM

QQ.. I'm to late to the party. I had to much to do with other d&d projects (Orochimaru and the next naruto villain build I'm working on).
But I have a another build idea that didn't come up and I would like to share it later if that is ok?
I would write it up in a short format and post it later this day or morning.

_____

The entrances are really looking interesting. Will give em a more careful view when I have time later.

Hiro Quester

2020-12-07, 08:12 AM

Wow. Well done, everyone! Some surprises there, (which I expected) for sure.

I was playing with the idea of cleric1/ vampire (+8 ECL) to qualify using the Vampire’s dominating gaze and +8 racial bonus to the relevant skills. That would have been a stretch in elegance, I’m sure.

Then IC 10, with Vampire Lord thrown in at the end.

it sounded cooler, more pure, In my head. But having practically no BAB, and only low-level cleric spells, and not being able to use the DC increase ability on dominate SLAs, I gave up trying to make it work.

I now see more potential in using CoI on your minions and allies (vampire spawn, slaves and dominated minions). Oh well.

Piggy Knowles

2020-12-07, 09:20 AM

I couldn't quite get it together to finish my entries, but I had two build ideas I really liked.

The first was a Human Heritage half-drow warlock/human paragon who used Aberrant Dragonmark to qualify for the SI and then advanced warlock. Human Heritage was a neat little workaround to the fact that drow are not a dragonmarked race, and let me get in with a warlock entry. Lots of nice synergy there. It also involved a familiar who would be always influenced via Claws of Influence for the senses bonus, and as a target to release in order to spam his enchantment invocations as swift actions or to supercharge the DC.

I had this one pretty well written up, but other than a vague puppeteer theme with lots of Being John Malkovich references, I kinda stalled out on the fluff and didn't quite get it together in time to write up the fluff. My thought had been that it was a half-drow who could "pass" as human due to his human parentage, but who secretly corrupted those around him on behalf of the drow and turned them into puppets. Here's what I had written up:

(snappy image goes here, look for Being John Malkovich stills)
NAME NAMERSON
Half-Drow, Human Paragon 3/Warlock 4/Evangelist 3/Insidious Corruptor 10

He’s got the world on a string…

Fluff fluff fluff

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Human Paragon 1
+0
+0
+0
+2
Bluff 4 ranks, gather information 4 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks, knowledge (religion) 4 ranks, perform (oratory) 4 ranks, sense motive 4 ranks, use magic device 4 ranks
Human Heritage
Adaptive learning (use magic device)

2nd
Warlock 1
+0
+0
+0
+4
Bluff 5 ranks (+1), intimidate 1 rank (+1), knowledge (religion) 5 ranks (+1), use magic device 5 ranks (+1)

Eldritch blast 1d6, invocation (least)

3rd
Human Paragon 2
+1
+0
+0
+5
Bluff 6 ranks (+1), diplomacy 5 ranks (+1), gather information 5 ranks (+1), perform (oratory) 5 ranks (+1), sense motive 5 ranks (+1), use magic device 6 ranks (+1)
Persuasive, Aberrant Dragonmark (shield)
Bonus feat

4th
Human Paragon 3
+2
+1
+1
+5
Bluff 7 ranks (+1), diplomacy 7 ranks (+2), perform (oratory) 7 ranks (+2), sense motive 6 ranks (+1), use magic device 7 ranks (+1)

Ability boost (+2 Cha), eldritch blast 2d6

5th
Warlock 2
+3
+1
+1
+6
Bluff 8 ranks (+1), intimidate 2 ranks (+1), sense motive 7 ranks (+1), use magic device 8 ranks (+1)

Detect magic

6th
Warlock 3
+4
+2
+2
+6
Bluff 9 ranks (+1), intimidate 3 ranks (+1), sense motive 8 ranks (+1), use magic device 9 ranks (+1)
Lesser Aberrant Dragonmark (bestow curse)
Damage reduction 1/magic, eldritch blast 3d6

7th
Warlock 4
+5
+2
+2
+7
Bluff 10 ranks (+1), intimidate 4 ranks (+1), sense motive 9 ranks (+1), use magic device 10 ranks (+1)

Deceive item, invocation (lesser)

8th
Evangelist 1
+5
+2
+2
+9
Bluff 11 ranks (+1), diplomacy 9 ranks (+2), intimidate 5 ranks (+1), perform (oratory) 9 ranks (+2), sense motive 10 ranks (+1), use magic device 11 ranks (+1)

Great orator (inspire dread)

9th
Evangelist 2
+5
+2
+2
+10
Bluff 12 ranks (+1), diplomacy 12 ranks (+3), intimidate 7 ranks (+2), sense motive 11 ranks (+1), use magic device 12 ranks (+1)
Greater Aberrant Dragonmark (dominate person)
Fast talk

10th
Insidious Corruptor 1
+6/+1
+2
+2
+12
Bluff 13 ranks (+1), diplomacy 13 ranks (+1), intimidate 9 ranks (+2), sense motive 12 ranks (+1), use magic device 13 ranks (+1)

Claws of influence (1 target), manipulate senses

11th
Insidious Corruptor 2
+7/+2
+2
+2
+13
Bluff 14 ranks (+1), diplomacy 14 ranks (+1), intimidate 11 ranks (+2), sense motive 13 ranks (+1), use magic device 14 ranks (+1)

Probe thoughts, eldritch blast 4d6

12th
Insidious Corruptor 3
+7/+2
+3
+3
+13
Bluff 15 ranks (+1), diplomacy 15 ranks (+1), intimidate 13 ranks (+2), sense motive 14 ranks (+1), use magic device 15 ranks (+1)
Obtain Familiar
Manipulation, claws of influence (2 targets)

13th
Insidious Corruptor 4
+8/+3
+3
+3
+14
Bluff 16 ranks (+1), diplomacy 16 ranks (+1), intimidate 15 ranks (+2), sense motive 15 ranks (+1), use magic device 16 ranks (+1)

Minion

14th
Insidious Corruptor 5
+8/+3
+3
+3
+14
Bluff 17 ranks (+1), diplomacy 17 ranks (+1), intimidate 17 ranks (+2), sense motive 16 ranks (+1), use magic device 17 ranks (+1)

Swift enchantment

15th
Insidious Corruptor 6
+9/+4
+4
+4
+15
Bluff 18 ranks (+1), diplomacy 18 ranks (+1), intimidate 18 ranks (+1), sense motive 18 ranks (+2), use magic device 18 ranks (+1)
Undead Empathy
Irresistible charm, claws of influence (3 targets), eldritch blast 5d6

16th
Insidious Corruptor 7
+9/+4
+4
+4
+15
Bluff 19 ranks (+1), diplomacy 19 ranks (+1), intimidate 19 ranks (+1), perform (oratory) 9.5 ranks (+.5, cc), sense motive 19 ranks (+1), use magic device 19 ranks (+1)

Greater manipulation

17th
Insidious Corruptor 8
+10/+5
+4
+4
+16
Bluff 20 ranks (+1), diplomacy 20 ranks (+1), intimidate 20 ranks (+1), perform (oratory) 10 ranks (+.5, cc), sense motive 20 ranks (+1), use magic device 20 ranks (+1)

Greater minion

18th
Insidious Corruptor 9
+10/+5
+5
+5
+16
Bluff 21 ranks (+1), diplomacy 21 ranks (+1), intimidate 21 ranks (+1), perform (oratory) 10.5 ranks (+.5, cc), sense motive 21 ranks (+1), use magic device 21 ranks (+1)
Improved Familiar (mirror mephit)
Irresistible compulsion, claws of influence (4 targets)

19th
Insidious Corruptor 10
+11/+6/+1
+5
+5
+17
Bluff 22 ranks (+1), diplomacy 22 ranks (+1), intimidate 22 ranks (+1), perform (oratory) 11 ranks (+.5, cc) sense motive 22 ranks (+1), use magic device 22 ranks (+1)

Master manipulator, eldritch blast 6d6

20th
Evangelist 3
+12/+7/+2
+6
+6
+17
Bluff 23 ranks (+1), diplomacy 23 ranks (+1), intimidate 23 ranks (+1), sense motive 23 ranks (+1), use magic device 23 ranks (+1), speak language 1 rank, Social Recovery skill trick

Great orator (inflame the righteous)

32 point buy:
Str 8/Dex 14/Con 12/Int 16/Wis 10/Cha 16

Boost Charisma at every available level.

Invocations Known:
Least- Beguiling influence, baleful utterance, dark one’s own luck
Lesser- Charm, fell flight, relentless dispelling
Greater- Dark whispers

Final Skill Layout
Bluff 23 ranks
Diplomacy 23 ranks
Intimidate 23 ranks
Sense motive 23 ranks
Use magic device 23 ranks
Perform (oratory) 11 ranks
Gather information 5 ranks
Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks
Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks
Social Recovery skill trick
Speak language (whatever is most campaign-relevant - speak language is a class skill for the evangelist, so any spare skill points during evangelist levels get spent here)

Levels 1 - 5
Human Paragon 3Warlock 2

With Human Heritage and human paragon, you open up as a more skillful version of a warlock. Warlocks tend to excel at low levels, and you’re no different. Your social skills in particular start strong thanks to Persuasive, beguiling influence and your excellent Charisma (further boosted by human paragon), and you can still operate as a standard warlock and plink away at foes for easy damage.

Levels 6 - 10
Human Paragon 3/Warlock 4/Evangelist 2/Insidious Corruptor 1

Going up to warlock 4 gives you deceive item, allowing you to take 10 on UMD checks. With a UMD bonus of +19 before items, you always succeed at activating wands, emulating races or abilities, deciphering spells of up to 4th level and using scrolls with CL 9 or less. Your warlock powers also expand to give you a +6 or more to all saves via dark one’s own luck, shatter things at will and charm foes. Meanwhile, your aberrant dragonmarks also improve, giving you bestow curse and dominate person. And to bring it all together, you have two levels of evangelist. This provides you with two key abilities: inspire dread, which allows you to give everyone who can hear and understand you -4 to their Will saves, and fast talk, which halves the penalty for rushed diplomacy checks. Standing naked without a single item you’ve got a +29 diplomacy check at this point, meaning that you can make a rushed diplomacy check as a full-round action, roll a 1 and still hit DC 20 to convert hostile foes to unfriendly or friendly allies to helpful. Throw in level-appropriate items and you’re guaranteed to succeed in making any foe who can hear and understand you go from hostile to indifferent in a single round, with a decent chance of making them friendly instead.

And since you have dominate person as an SLA you can now begin taking levels in insidious corruptor. Claws of influence is a great way to hang onto high-value targets, making sure you worm your way into their favor completely and absolutely.

Levels 11 - 15
Human Paragon 3/Warlock 4/Evangelist 2/Insidious Corruptor 6

For the latter half of your career you will focus on insidious corruptor, which allows you to further manipulate those around you. In addition to providing a +6 insight bonus on relevant checks to interact with your influenced minions, you can also release their influence to swift-cast enchantment spells or SLAs or give an excellent +4 to the DC of a charm spell/SLA. This is quite valuable alongside your at-will charm. In fact, it’s so valuable that you should always have an ally under your claws of influence so you can release it at will. Enter your newfound friend, the raven: this talking bird should always be under influence by you, boosting its perception skills via manipulate senses and ready to be released from influence for a quick boost to your charm or dominate person. Your raven familiar helps in other ways, aiding you on all your relevant skills and firing off magic wands in combat for some nice action economy thanks to the fact that it shares your skill ranks.

Of course, as fun as it is to abuse your raven familiar to power your invocations, you’ll want to use your claws of influence on targets you wish to control as well. With the ability to dominate them, instantly read their minds or press them into attacking or moving as you’d like, you’ve got some excellent control over them.

Ah, but what about the undead? They’ll be immune to your enchantments, making them powerful foes. While some of this can be handled via UMD, you have an even better tool: Undead Empathy. This allows you to use diplomacy even against mindless undead, and even as a full-round action you are guaranteed to make the check necessary to prevent them from attacking you. You also get a very nice boost against intelligent undead, allowing you to manipulate them easily as well despite their immunity to some of your more powerful charms.

Levels 16 - 20
Human Paragon 3/Warlock 4/Evangelist 3/Insidious Corruptor 10

The latter half of insidious corruptor has some very juicy abilities. Greater minions in particular is quite nasty, giving you brief control over four targets at once. You also progress up to greater invocations, giving you dark whispers, a souped-up version of suggestion. With the ability to quicken it via swift enchantment or boost its DC via irresistible compulsion, you should easily be able to manipulate everyone around you. Oh, and speaking of manipulation, you’ve got a diplomacy check in the low 50s at this point, and against your claws of influence targets you get another +10. Enjoy going from hostile to helpful in a single round, guaranteed, or even converting some of your allies into fanatics.

Oh, and while you’re here, go ahead and upgrade your familiar with a mirror mephit. This has all the advantages of your raven but with a better Charisma and some excellent SLAs, most notably simulacrum. This latter should allow you to eventually replace key targets with identical duplicates that obey your every command. And once you complete the IC, you can spend the last level to pick up another level of evangelist. You should have many allies to benefit from inflame the righteous, and the skills and extra use of your orations are certainly appreciated.

fluff fluff fluff

sources
go
here

As the poet said, ‘The puppeteer’s voice need not merely be the record of man. It can be one of the pillars, the props to help him endure and prevail,’ and I believe that.

--Being John Malkovich

The second build involved an early entry into mindbender, using cloistered cleric: with the Knowledge and Oracle domains, cloistered cleric could give a +3 to the CL on divinations. Add on a level of a jester, which meets your skill requirements (including intimidate, which other key options like beguiler and bard lack) and gives you arcane spells, get yourself an additional +1 CL from somewhere, and you could cleanly qualify for mindbender with just those two levels. Seven levels of that gave you a dominate SLA to qualify for the SI (technically dominate monster, but the text of it references dominate person, so I was hoping it would fly).

Anyhow, mindbender gave a lot of nice synergy with the SI, so I really liked this one, too. Mindsight by level 3 is always nice, but claws of influence + eternal charm was an especially neat little combo. The build worked off of the idea of heavy debuffs + claws of influence to soften foes up for eternal charm, and then using claws of influence on the eternally charmed, diplomancing them up from friendly to fanatic, and being able to release those claws targets to hit up new foes.

I decided to go hard on the debuff route by combining Focalor's aura of sadness with unseelie fey for -(2+Cha) to saves of adjacent foes, and leaning hard on "you can't hit me" style effects like sanctuary or hide from undead to move around unharmed. Fluff was going to be a sad clown, Pagliacci-style.

Pagliacci
"But doctor, I am Pagliacci!"
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6f/75/79/6f7579a833522e4edeb202260ea90b1d.jpg

Unseelie Fey Half-Drow, Jester 1/Cloistered Cleric 1/Mindbender 8/Insidious Corruptor 10
Domains: Charm, Oracle, Knowledge

1 Jester1- Spell Thematics
2 Cloistered Cleric1- Unseelie Court Noble Kelir*
3 Mindbender1- Mindsight
4 Mindbender2-
5 Mindbender3-
6 Mindbender4- Bind Vestige
7 Mindbender5-
8 Mindbender6-
9 Mindbender7- Persuasive
10 Insidious Corruptor1-
11 Insidious Corruptor2-
12 Insidious Corruptor3- Improved Bind Vestige
13 Insidious Corruptor4-
14 Insidious Corruptor5-
15 Insidious Corruptor6- Imperious Command
16 Insidious Corruptor7-
17 Insidious Corruptor8-
18 Insidious Corruptor9- Trickery Devotion
19 Insidious Corruptor10-
20 Mindbender8-

*Maybe. Kinda cheesy to get a free feat because of a random online article, but I love the idea of an "offensive" use of diplomacy. Maybe have this in extra options.

Spells:
0- Detect magic, prestidigitation, daze, light, mage hand, create water
1- Silent image, sanctuary, grease, ventriloquism
2- Alter self, glitterdust, undetectable alignment, touch of idiocy
3- Tongues, suggestion, haste, crushing despair
4- Polymorph, greater invisibility

Anyhow, really enjoyed both builds but the stars didn't quite align for time + motivation, so I didn't get them in. Shame, it looks like there was a really good crop this round. I'll be eagerly following regardless!

H_H_F_F

2020-12-07, 09:44 AM

Two very impressive builds, Piggy. Motivation can be difficult. Hopefully we'll have you next round!

Zaq

2020-12-07, 10:54 AM

I got one build in, but I had two other ideas that I couldn't get off the ground.

One was trying to combine self-targeted Greater Manipulation with control body by using a Magic Mantle ardent to argue that psionic dominate, which directly references dominate person, would qualify under Complete Arcane's rules for a SLA that mimics a specifics spell (there is, of course, the stupid rule in XPH that manifesting psionics is a psi-like ability, and since a Magic Mantle user treats magic and psionics as identical, I felt like there was a good argument there). So the idea is that I'd target myself with Claws and with control body to attack the way I chose to but taking advantage of the bonuses that each of those two abilities gives the target. That fell apart upon realizing that I'd need to take two instances of Expanded Knowledge to get psionic dominate and control body, and I'd need to invest in three mental stats, plus if I wanted to pretend that I was actually making attack rolls then I needed to have a decent melee foundation to build upon—just not great.

I was also trying to make a stealthy character who took advantage of the fact that supernatural abilities (like Claws) don't have verbal or somatic components and the fact that manipulate senses can penalize Spot/Listen, but I couldn't think of a hook to make the character really pop. It felt like a good supporting component but didn't feel like a good primary trick, and I couldn't figure out what the primary trick would have been. Maybe a beguiler, since they already benefit from casting while unseen, but I couldn't think of a nice elegant way to get HiPS without either lighting way too many feats or way too many levels on fire, and I didn't feel like using the Dark template. I considered seeing if I could hack dominate person onto the assassin list, but by that point I basically didn't have enough room for the SI, so that was a nonstarter.

The builds that everyone else submitted are quite nice! I fully expect to be a ho-hum also-ran this time. Not that being an also-ran is shameful! I say this with 100% sincerity and not even a trace of irony: simply submitting a build is an awesome achievement that is worthy of pride. I mean that with every drop of my soul! My point is that the build I got in is... fine, but I self-judge it to be not one of my more memorable submissions.

Mr. Chair, please check your PMs.

Piggy Knowles

2020-12-07, 11:07 AM

Maybe a beguiler, since they already benefit from casting while unseen, but I couldn't think of a nice elegant way to get HiPS without either lighting way too many feats or way too many levels on fire, and I didn't feel like using the Dark template. I considered seeing if I could hack dominate person onto the assassin list, but by that point I basically didn't have enough room for the SI, so that was a nonstarter.

I know it's considered a pretty mediocre feat by most, but for something like this, what about Improved Diversion? It ties in with the Charisma and bluff synergy, and combined with some ready source of concealment (some form of darkness, obscuring mist, etc.) it effectively gives you HiPS without cutting into your actions: standard action to do whatever you need to do (possibly summon up your preferred source of concealment), move action bluff check to create a diversion, 5' step into hiding.

Also, being that this SI requires drow, there's always the Blend into Shadows feat. Usually best with a warlock or DFA dip, of course, but that's not exactly a bad thing with this SI.

(I know it's past submission time, but brainstorming different ideas is like 75% of the fun for me!)

Zaq

2020-12-07, 01:05 PM

I know it's considered a pretty mediocre feat by most, but for something like this, what about Improved Diversion? It ties in with the Charisma and bluff synergy, and combined with some ready source of concealment (some form of darkness, obscuring mist, etc.) it effectively gives you HiPS without cutting into your actions: standard action to do whatever you need to do (possibly summon up your preferred source of concealment), move action bluff check to create a diversion, 5' step into hiding.

Also, being that this SI requires drow, there's always the Blend into Shadows feat. Usually best with a warlock or DFA dip, of course, but that's not exactly a bad thing with this SI.

(I know it's past submission time, but brainstorming different ideas is like 75% of the fun for me!)

Yeah, that’s reasonably clever if you’ve got concealment on tap, though you still need total concealment to hide (many forms of HiPS negate that requirement, but Improved Diversion doesn’t), so you’d probably want a nice long-term form of invisibility that doesn’t break when you use an ability that forces a saving throw. Not sure what the best such option is without Persistomancy. It’s a shame greater invisibility is 4th level or else I’d start talking about using it with quick potion and Delay Potion to get your action economy back. You’d need master alchemist for that, and that takes levels that aren’t in the SI.

Blend Into Shadows is hard to use with the SI because it takes swifts, which the SI also takes. (Delay Potion takes one as well, but only one.)

Is there any way to get death attack with a non-terrible DC while still getting good progress in the SI? My original vision was a hidden character telepathically probing someone, scoping out their usefulness for a few rounds, and then either sending them off on a nefarious mission if they were useful or popping out to death attack them if they weren’t useful (either they were uncooperative or they didn’t have any further good info for the killer).

Piggy Knowles

2020-12-07, 01:44 PM

Yeah, that’s reasonably clever if you’ve got concealment on tap, though you still need total concealment to hide (many forms of HiPS negate that requirement, but Improved Diversion doesn’t)

Just regular concealment, not total, right?

You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway.

Standard concealment is pretty easy to get reliably. Some things that come to mind are darkness (obtainable a variety of ways, including via cantrips and a number of magic weapons), fog/smoke (lots and lots of spells beginning at 1st level, alchemical items such as smokesticks, smoking weapons, Profane Aura, Cloudy Conjuration, Winged Warrior, a bunch of class features), and then just general class features that grant concealment (a number of these, but most of them are about equally as cheap as HiPS, so diminishing returns here).

Can't really think of any decent death attack option, though.

Hiro Quester

2020-12-07, 02:02 PM

Yep, Vizzini hit hard. Some really creative entries there.

My stub was Lesser Drow Beguiler 11/Mindbender 1/IC 8 (not in that order). Using Versatile Spellcaster to get 9ths (and for early entry).

I was really expecting a few more beguilers and mindbenders. We Vizinni’d that option hard.

daremetoidareyo

2020-12-07, 03:29 PM

I had a wierd build:
Lesser drow
Hidden talent Soulknife 6 or 7/half elf paragon 1/IC 10

With the 4 illithid feats you can get psionic dominate which qualifies you. But other than having such a wierd entry, nothing synergized at all.

I had a psywarrior stub using the illithid feats that could enter by level 7, but again, IC wasn't at all psionics friendly

H_H_F_F

2020-12-07, 03:46 PM

To change the subject from potential builds: Is anyone besides Thurbane considering stepping up to judge this round?

I think the competition always benefits from extra judges!

Zaq

2020-12-07, 06:41 PM

Just regular concealment, not total, right?

Standard concealment is pretty easy to get reliably. Some things that come to mind are darkness (obtainable a variety of ways, including via cantrips and a number of magic weapons), fog/smoke (lots and lots of spells beginning at 1st level, alchemical items such as smokesticks, smoking weapons, Profane Aura, Cloudy Conjuration, Winged Warrior, a bunch of class features), and then just general class features that grant concealment (a number of these, but most of them are about equally as cheap as HiPS, so diminishing returns here).

Can't really think of any decent death attack option, though.

Right, silly me, I was mixing it up with 4e's rules. (3.5 needs normal cover/concealment but you can't be being observed; 4e gets rid of the "can't be being observed" rule but requires total cover/concealment in the absence of special exceptions.)

The Viscount

2020-12-07, 10:29 PM

Gruftzwerg

2020-12-08, 12:26 AM

The Grey Eminence

Chameleon (C-E)
Urban Druid 5 / Planar Shepherd 5 / Insidious Corruptor 10

(Urban Druid 1-5, Planar Shepherd 6-10, Insidious Corruptor 10-20)
1: Racial Emulation
3: Persuasive
6: Spontaneous Summoner
9: Nightbringer Initiate (Swift Concentration - Skill Trick)
12: Practiced Spellcaster
15: Widen Supernatural Ability
18: Draconic Aura: Vigor
Str: 8
Dex: 8
Con: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 14
Cha: 18 (+5 from lvlUp + 5 from Wish + 6 from item = 34)

Urban Druid is a nice base to enter Insidious Corruptor and Planar Shepherd. At lvl 7 we will take a wheelchair as mount (large animated object as urban companion). The Urban Shape class feature will give us Humanoid Shape which we will abuse for our evil schemes. Finally it has Cha based casting which is in line with our Insidious Corroptor abilities.

Planar Shepherd: Dal Quor
The wstrongest prc in the game imho. With our plane choice set on Dal Quor, we can alter the time in our Planar Bubble. The Planar Shift ability is great to escape or to lure people into the dreamworld to later murder em without any trace.

Story / Role:
This character strives for power and wealth. He has settled in a large city and is one of / it not the biggest player in the town who runs the city. His humanoid shape helps him to plot intrigues and live under multiple identities.
The public role is that of a fragile old businessmen in a (magical) wheelchair and the owner and commentator of the (show) arena fights. He abuses his Planar Bubble to speed up the arena and the combatants. Due to the 1/10 rounds ratio time-flow difference, the gladiators can now act slowly through their Choreography, while it looks super high speed for anyone outside perceiving the fight. The Draconic Aura will heal most of the damage, since they aren't attacking every turn (even if it seems from the outside). Add in the Subjective Directional Gravity and the Highly Morphic properties and you have a spectacular fight for the viewers.
At the same time he runs an underground arena with full speed up death fights for those wealthy enough to bet on those fights. Or for those fighters, who want to change their lives and want to escape from their background. Death Prisoners take often the option to fight for their freedom in Death Prisoner tournaments. Wealthy people may bring their own Gladiators/Slaves for a lil fee. This causes a competition under the rich people: "Who has the best and strongest gladiator."
But the arenas aren't his sole play fields. He also trades all kinds of (legal and illegal) goods in several disguises. He is also manipulating politics as much as he can.
Another business model of him is to sell dreams. He lets the rich pay for his planar bubble. They can play with the gravity and try to experiment with the Highly Morphic property as they like (and feel like a magic user). And those who are super rich and can effort it (or those in high power), get a Plane Shift to a Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion in Dal Quor for an entire day to party.
Over time more and more rich and wealthy people will fall prey to your shows and parties. Those who discover your evil plans or are an obstacle in any kind will get your special treatment. You will Plane Shift them to Dal Quor and kill em there without any trace in the real world.

edit: forgot to explain the reason for Swift Concentration (SC).
SC will be used mainly to concentrate on the Planar Bubble. This enables us to concentrate as swift action while we are either commentating the fights or to abuse a standard action for our dominate abilities.

"Ladies and Gentlemen. Lets get readyyy to RUUUMBLEEEEEE!"
______________

As said, sorry that I couldn't make a full detailed build in time... I've been very busy these days..^^
I hope that you still like the idea xD

edit: the character was inspired by Professor X, Mystique & Dark Sun

eversilentone

2020-12-09, 04:06 AM

H_H_F_F

2020-12-09, 04:18 AM

Oh man, I used to have a very hard time with the tables too. It just clicked after a few times, though it's still a mess to look at (at least the way I do it.) Maybe others would have more useful advice, but my experience has been that it just takes some getting used to.

Vizzini was explained earlier this thread, in a discussion that began near the end of page one.

Korahir

2020-12-09, 06:17 AM

I'm gutted to have missed the round - again - because this is a PrC that I've been desperate to see work! This is the third time I've tried to enter and just not been able to. The biggest barrier for me is the table formatting, I really struggle with it :smallfrown: I've searched online and others have talked about a tool to help format the text into the code but I can't seem to work that out either (which makes me feel very old!). If others have any suggestions I'd be very grateful as I'd really love to participate as a Chef (I'm neither competent nor confident enough to Judge, and it would feel bold indeed to offer without having cooked previously).

For what it's worth, my first Iron Chef entry was going to be Warlock base with entry via Dragonmarks, Blend Into Shadows abuse, but it didn't really seem to do enough. The second was a Sublime Chord build which I assumed would be widely used, so was trying to find alternatives.

There are some great builds here and I continue to find masses of inspiration - this competition is consistently my favourite thread, and I'm so grateful for everyone's contributions (including the judges). Thank you all!

p.s. Having a mental blank - what does it mean if something has been Vizzini'd?!

For me personally the easiest way to format the table is the forums own message system. I struggled a lot with the table before realizing I can send myself messages and edit them. In the upper left corner of the menu is the Switch button between wysiwyg mode and source mode. You can just use Reply with Quote and then copy all the text of one entry into the message to yourself. Thereby you not only learn all the source codes but you have an already perfect table which you can refill everytime.

Hope that helps you enter one of the next contests.

Gruftzwerg

2020-12-09, 06:34 AM

For me personally the easiest way to format the table is the forums own message system. I struggled a lot with the table before realizing I can send myself messages and edit them. In the upper left corner of the menu is the Switch button between wysiwyg mode and source mode. You can just use Reply with Quote and then copy all the text of one entry into the message to yourself. Thereby you not only learn all the source codes but you have an already perfect table which you can refill everytime.

Hope that helps you enter one of the next contests.

There is always the source code for the tables in the spoiler below the example tables in the #1 post.
- mark the source code with your cursor
- copy + paste with CTRL+C & CTRL+V into a fresh post
- switch to WYSIWYG-mode (top left corner as you said)

edit:
Maybe we should add a mini guide spoiler for that? Or somebody could make a 30sec youtube guide that we could link? I don't have experience with recording software, otherwise I would do it myself..^^

daremetoidareyo

2020-12-09, 08:32 AM

There is always the source code for the tables in the spoiler below the example tables in the #1 post.
- mark the source code with your cursor
- copy + paste with CTRL+C & CTRL+V into a fresh post
- switch to WYSIWYG-mode (top left corner as you said)

edit:
Maybe we should add a mini guide spoiler for that? Or somebody could make a 30sec youtube guide that we could link? I don't have experience with recording software, otherwise I would do it myself..^^

This is how I do it.

Build your dude in Google sheets, use the exact layout of entry table.

Copy the table source code into a forum post or a message.

Hit WYSIWYG button, so that you have an empty table.

Copy your Google sheet character build but leave off the headers

Paste it under the empty table. Because WYSIWYG mode is on, it should show up as a table.

Hit the WYSIWYG button again turning the empty table and your build into code

Delete the table row of code off of your build, and the 20 blank levels from the source code table, creating a frankenstein of the source code table headers and your build

Hit WYSIWYG button again to see t that your build golem works.

Piggy Knowles

2020-12-09, 09:51 AM

I tend to write my entries up in a google doc. The advantage is that once you have a format that you like, you can pretty much just reuse it again and again, pasting in the new content.

I usually like to brainstorm by making build skeletons in a format like this:

Half-Drow, Human Paragon 3/Warlock 4/Evangelist 3/Insidious Corruptor 10
1 Human Paragon1- Human Heritage
2 Warlock1-
3 Human Paragon2- Persuasive
4 Human Paragon3- Aberrant Dragonmark (shield)
5 Warlock2-
6 Warlock3- Lesser Aberrant Dragonmark (bestow curse)
7 Warlock4-
8 Evangelist1-
9 Evangelist2- Greater Aberrant Dragonmark (dominate person)
10 Insidious Corruptor1-
11 Insidious Corruptor2-
12 Insidious Corruptor3- Obtain Familiar (raven)
13 Insidious Corruptor4-
14 Insidious Corruptor5-
15 Insidious Corruptor6- Undead Empathy
16 Insidious Corruptor7-
17 Insidious Corruptor8-
18 Insidious Corruptor9- Improved Familiar (mirror mephit)
19 Insidious Corruptor10-
20 Evangelist3-

While I’m doing it, I’ll make notes for feat/class requirements, etc. Then I’ll go back over it all, and add in class features, BAB, saves, skills, etc., like so:

Half-Drow, Human Paragon 3/Warlock 4/Evangelist 3/Insidious Corruptor 10
1 Human Paragon1- Human Heritage
+0 +0/+0/+2
Adaptive learning (use magic device)
Bluff 4 ranks, gather information 4 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks, knowledge (religion) 4 ranks, perform (oratory) 4 ranks, sense motive 4 ranks, use magic device 4 ranks

2 Warlock1-
+0 +0/+0/+4
Eldritch blast 1d6, invocation (least), knowledge (religion) 5 ranks,
Bluff 5 ranks (+1), intimidate 1 rank (+1), knowledge (religion) 5 ranks (+1), use magic device 5 ranks (+1)

3 Human Paragon2- Persuasive, Aberrant Dragonmark (shield)
+1 +0/+0/+5
Bonus feat
Bluff 6 ranks (+1), diplomacy 5 ranks (+1), gather information 5 ranks (+1), perform (oratory) 5 ranks (+1), sense motive 5 ranks (+1), use magic device 6 ranks (+1)

4 Human Paragon3-
+2 +1/+1/+5
Ability boost (+2 Cha), eldritch blast 2d6
Bluff 7 ranks (+1), diplomacy 7 ranks (+2), perform (oratory) 7 ranks (+2), sense motive 6 ranks (+1), use magic device 7 ranks (+1)

5 Warlock2-
+3 +1/+1/+6
Detect magic
Bluff 8 ranks (+1), intimidate 2 ranks (+1), sense motive 7 ranks (+1), use magic device 8 ranks (+1)

6 Warlock3- Lesser Aberrant Dragonmark (bestow curse)
+4 +2/+2/+5
Damage reduction 1/magic, eldritch blast 3d6
Bluff 9 ranks (+1), intimidate 3 ranks (+1), sense motive 8 ranks (+1), use magic device 9 ranks (+1)

7 Warlock4-
+5 +2/+2/+7
Deceive item
Bluff 10 ranks (+1), intimidate 4 ranks (+1), sense motive 9 ranks (+1), use magic device 10 ranks (+1)

8 Evangelist1-
+5 +2/+2/+9
Great orator (inspire dread)
Bluff 11 ranks (+1), diplomacy 9 ranks (+2), intimidate 5 ranks (+1), perform (oratory) 9 ranks (+2), sense motive 10 ranks (+1), use magic device 11 ranks (+1)

9 Evangelist2- Greater Aberrant Dragonmark (dominate person)
+6/+1 +2/+2/+10
Fast talk
Bluff 12 ranks (+1), diplomacy 12 ranks (+3), intimidate 7 ranks (+2), sense motive 11 ranks (+1), use magic device 12 ranks (+1)

10 Insidious Corruptor1-
+6/+1 +2/+2/+12
Claws of influence (1 target), manipulate senses
Bluff 13 ranks (+1), diplomacy 13 ranks (+1), intimidate 9 ranks (+2), sense motive 12 ranks (+1), use magic device 13 ranks (+1)

11 Insidious Corruptor2-
+7/+2 +2/+2/+13
Probe thoughts, eldritch blast 4d6
Bluff 14 ranks (+1), diplomacy 14 ranks (+1), intimidate 11 ranks (+2), sense motive 13 ranks (+1), use magic device 14 ranks (+1)

12 Insidious Corruptor3- Obtain Familiar (raven)
+7/+2 +3/+3/+13
Manipulation, claws of influence (2 targets)
Bluff 15 ranks (+1), diplomacy 15 ranks (+1), intimidate 13 ranks (+2), sense motive 14 ranks (+1), use magic device 15 ranks (+1)

13 Insidious Corruptor4-
+8/+3 +3/+3/+14
Minion
Bluff 16 ranks (+1), diplomacy 16 ranks (+1), intimidate 15 ranks (+2), sense motive 15 ranks (+1), use magic device 16 ranks (+1)

14 Insidious Corruptor5-
+8/+3 +3/+3/+14
Swift enchantment
Bluff 17 ranks (+1), diplomacy 17 ranks (+1), intimidate 17 ranks (+2), sense motive 16 ranks (+1), use magic device 17 ranks (+1)

15 Insidious Corruptor6- Undead Empathy
+9/+4 +4/+4/+15
Irresistible charm, claws of influence (3 targets), eldritch blast 5d6
Bluff 18 ranks (+1), diplomacy 18 ranks (+1), intimidate 18 ranks (+1), sense motive 18 ranks (+2), use magic device 18 ranks (+1)

16 Insidious Corruptor7-
+9/+4 +4/+4/+15
Greater manipulation
Bluff 19 ranks (+1), diplomacy 19 ranks (+1), intimidate 19 ranks (+1), perform (oratory) 9.5 ranks (+.5, cc), sense motive 19 ranks (+1), use magic device 19 ranks (+1)

17 Insidious Corruptor8-
+10/+5 +4/+4/+16
Greater minion
Bluff 20 ranks (+1), diplomacy 20 ranks (+1), intimidate 20 ranks (+1), perform (oratory) 10 ranks (+.5, cc), sense motive 20 ranks (+1), use magic device 20 ranks (+1)

18 Insidious Corruptor9- Improved Familiar (mirror mephit)
+10/+5 +5/+5/+16
Irresistible compulsion, claws of influence (4 targets)
Bluff 21 ranks (+1), diplomacy 21 ranks (+1), intimidate 21 ranks (+1), perform (oratory) 10.5 ranks (+.5, cc), sense motive 21 ranks (+1), use magic device 21 ranks (+1)

19 Insidious Corruptor10-
+11/+6/+1 +5/+5/+17
Master manipulator, eldritch blast 6d6
Bluff 22 ranks (+1), diplomacy 22 ranks (+1), intimidate 22 ranks (+1), perform (oratory) 11 ranks (+.5, cc) sense motive 22 ranks (+1), use magic device 22 ranks (+1)

20 Evangelist3-
+12/+7/+2 +6/+6/+17
Great orator (inflame the righteous)
Bluff 23 ranks (+1), diplomacy 23 ranks (+1), intimidate 23 ranks (+1), sense motive 23 ranks (+1), use magic device 23 ranks (+1), speak language 1 rank, Social Recovery skill trick

Final skill list:
Bluff 23 ranks
Diplomacy 23 ranks
Intimidate 23 ranks
Sense motive 23 ranks
Use magic device 23 ranks
Perform (oratory) 11 ranks
Gather information 5 ranks
Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks
Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks
Social Recovery skill trick
Speak language (whatever is most campaign-relevant)

Invocations:
Least- Beguiling influence, baleful utterance, dark one’s own luck
Lesser- Charm, fell flight, relentless dispelling
Greater- Dark whispers

Then I’ll open up the google doc of one of my previous entries, erase all the stuff specific to the old build (if I was smarter I’d just save an “empty” version as a base template… actually, why don’t I go do that now, it would save me a lot of time), and paste in the relevant bit to the right chart. Dual monitors of some sort help there, if that’s a possibility for you, but they aren’t required. Between Iron Chef and the Optimization Showcases (which use a similar table format), I’ve become pretty good at knocking out the tables and formatting really quickly.

But yeah, like anything else, it gets easier the more you do it. Good luck and I hope you enter a future contest!

Zaq

2020-12-09, 10:27 AM

My roomie wrote some kind of script that automatically turns Excel spreadsheets into GitP tables. I'll have to ask him how it works and see if it can be shared with the masses. I have no idea how it works myself--I just fling it at him and bribe him with food. I know it works with OpenOffice as well as with Excel, though, so that's something.

Of course, making the content to even go into the table in the first place is itself a challenge! How do you folks handle building the skill portion? I try something different every time, and every time I feel like there's gotta be a simpler method.

A few that I've tried:

Make a nice bulleted list in OneNote and copy/paste it at every step while actually selecting skills, then copy/paste that into Excel for the magic script to turn into GitP format. Pros: Nicely spaced and relatively easy to read early on. Cons: Even more C&P than usual.
Just bash through one line at a time and build the whole thing by hand. Pros: You have to handle each part of it, so it's harder to slip and lose something. Cons: Takes FOREVER.
Lay out all the skills in Excel columns, then list your ranks at each level. (F.A.S.T. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24281639&postcount=117) was like this.) Pros: Means you don't have to write out the skill names over and over, and honestly in some ways it's easier to read than the usual. Cons: You've gotta know which skills you care about from the beginning, you have to be careful not to lose anything, and if you have a LOT of different skills then it becomes unwieldy. Also, as you can see with F.A.S.T., it's not exactly Iron Chef standard, though nobody complained. Also hard to keep track of in-class/cross-class.
Similar to the above, use some baby-level Excel formulas to just enter skill points spent in each skill each level. Have a column for in-class and a column for cross-class and color-code them so you know which to use at each level. Then have a formula to check that you spent the right number of points and a formula to keep track of your total ranks! I used that this level and then used it as a template to fill out a "standard" style table. Pros: I like this a lot! It makes it very hard to overspend skill points and hard to accidentally forget which skills are CC or not. Cons: Requires simple formulas, does involve some setup ahead of time, means you have to know which skills you care about before you start, and VERY non-standard output that does indeed require some rejiggering into a normal style.

The Viscount

2020-12-09, 11:11 PM

Of course, making the content to even go into the table in the first place is itself a challenge! How do you folks handle building the skill portion? I try something different every time, and every time I feel like there's gotta be a simpler method.

I copy the template from the OP into word, then I just fill them in level by level. It works, but I have to do it in one session, or I'll forget what I'm doing and why. I have a bunch of tabs open with all my requirements and close the tabs as I fulfill them. When I make a character with a lot of skill points, it gets rough.

This is one of several reasons why I will never use Dungeon Delver as an ingredient. I couldn't do that to people.

WhamBamSam

2020-12-09, 11:27 PM

I copy the template from the OP into word, then I just fill them in level by level. It works, but I have to do it in one session, or I'll forget what I'm doing and why. I have a bunch of tabs open with all my requirements and close the tabs as I fulfill them. When I make a character with a lot of skill points, it gets rough.

This is one of several reasons why I will never use Dungeon Delver as an ingredient. I couldn't do that to people.I do pretty much the same. Generally I take care of everything except skills first, then skills later.

I've actually kind of wanted Dungeon Delver ever since Heliomance pulled the plug on it many rounds ago. I have a stub ready.

Hiro Quester

2020-12-10, 12:57 PM

[Helpful advice about tables and build example]

Piggy, I have been meaning to ask what the attraction of Evangelist was in that build. I briefly toyed with the idea of an Evangelist, because the schtick seemed so appropriate. The Fast Talk ability seemed promising. Something with bard and sublime chord seemed to have potential

But I gave up. Perhaps too quickly. Evangelist 4 ability seemed worth pursuing, to get a bunch of people switching to your alignment. But I stopped trying because I hate losing casting, and the abilities didn’t seem worth giving up that many levels of casting progression. And then I realized I didn’t have time to build anyway.

Why take Evangelist to 3 in that build? The Evangelist 3 class ability seemed to me to have little utility, and very underpowered. I’m sure I’m mssing something here.

Piggy Knowles

2020-12-10, 01:52 PM

Really it was the first two levels that I was interested in: inspire dread for the -4 to Will saves and fast talk for accelerated diplomacy. But once I finished insidious corruptor and had a spare level remaining, it made the most sense for me to take another level in evangelist for the skills and additional use of oration, since another level in warlock wouldn't actually get me anything useful.

I agree that the 4th level is great, but I couldn't figure out a way to fit it, alas...

H_H_F_F

2020-12-11, 12:45 PM

Friends, we're a little more than a week away from the deadline, and as far as I can tell, we have no confirmed judges at this point. Thurbane, do you know if you'll be judging or not?

Is anyone else thinking about judging?

AvatarVecna

2020-12-11, 01:52 PM

I've started judging. idk when I'll be done.

H_H_F_F

2020-12-11, 02:13 PM

Thank you, AvatarVecna! And good luck!

AvatarVecna

2020-12-11, 05:13 PM

Ravre and Apushri Xarann appear to be two builds presented as one. Am I missing a thing that means they should be judged together like Leadership or dvati or something? Or are they two builds that should be judged separately?

Piggy Knowles

2020-12-11, 05:53 PM

I can recall a previous precedent where someone submitted 4 builds in a single entry, and all four were judged individually.

Edit: found it, Big Sun from shadow sun ninja.

AvatarVecna

2020-12-11, 06:51 PM

1) All scores start at 3, and increase/decrease based on that.

2) Originality is based on what I expect to get used in general, and also on what I expect to get used specifically for an ingredient like this. As an example, if this contest's SI was Bloodstorm Blade (and thus focused on throwing), I'd penalize Hulking Hurler heavily (for being popular theorycrafting in general, and popular for throwing builds in particular), I'd penalize Incantatrix lightly (for being popular theorycrafting in general, but not usually applied to throwing builds), I'd give a null score for Master Thrower (for being unpopular in theorycrafting but popular to thrown builds), I'd give a slight bonus to Exotic Weapon Master (for being bad op in general, and only vaguely applicable to throwing builds), and I'd give a significant bonus to something like Alienist (which is not only pretty eh on its own, but is so divorced from thrown builds that I get excited to see how they mesh together). As an example from an actual contest, the Dwarven Defender round saw one person put forth a sorcerer/master of the unseen hand build, and it worked beautifully and was hella original.

3) Elegance, in my mind, is a measure of how much leeway you require from DMs in general for them to allow such a weird build at their table without intense scrutiny. It is a measure of what kind of tables would be willing to allow you to play as you are - some tables have a higher cheese tolerance, some tables will play with interpretations that don't work with pure RAW, and some tables are run by grognards who think dips and templates are for cheating optimizers. If you show up with Wizard 20, nobody will bat an eye, but if you show up with wizard 5 and 15 levels in 15 separate Wizard PrCs, even if everything is on the up-and-up you're going to get the hairy eyeball. Flaws, questionable interpretations, multiclass penalties, these are all things that can cause you problems if you try to bring them to a real table. For an example of a common penalty here: if you don't qualify for a feat or PrC when you take it, but you qualify later, that's -0.25; If you never qualify for it, that's -0.5; these penalties are doubled if the thing you didn't qualify for was the Secret Ingredient.

4) UotSI is about the whole ingredient. If your build is Wizard 10/SI 10, but realistically you're playing a god wizard who wasted 8 levels and would've only dipped SI 2 for a real game and doesn't really use the rest of the SI for anything, you're not really a [SI] character, you're a Wizard with a gimmick, and your score will reflect that.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Lesser Drow
-0.25: Half-Fey
-0.25: Lolth-Touched
+0.25: Thug Fighter
-0.25: Paladin Of Slaughter
+0.00: Warblade
+0.25: Divine Crusader
+0.00: Skill selection
+0.25: Feat selection
+0.50: Overall concept

Your basic concept - a divine-casting Corruptor with a specialty in melee prowess and intimidation - isn't likely to be particularly common in this round, or at the very least is an approach I wasn't expecting. Of course, melee fear builds are still rather common sights in the playground, so while the dish being served wasn't expected for this round, there's not really many surprising ingredients in it. The racial elements all pop up frequently in online discussions, and lesser drow in particular is something I expect every single build in this contest to use because nobody has any balls. Still, serving a bruiser for a social manipulator round is a bold choice, and it's boosted your score a bit.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Low Level Power
+0.00: Low-Mid Level Power
+0.00: Mid Level Power
+0.00: Mid-High Level Power
+0.25: High Level Power

At ECL 5, you have awful AC, 17 HP, Saves +7/-1/-1, +5 to-hit, 1d10+4 damage, reach, and flight/flyby attack. Your damage is okay, and reach+flyby attack is fairly nice for avoiding melee troubles, but you other defenses make you a glass cannon, and not a particularly hard-hitting one. You have the HP of a Con 12 Wizard, and ranged combat (arrows or spells) will be a major problem for you. This is the level fireball came online, and that spell will take you out in one shot. So much for being a bruiser.

This is a pattern throughout your career: LA +3 is giving you some nice buffs, but the lost HD means lower BAB, lower saves, and fewer feats. You have BAB +13 at lvl 20, worse than medium BAB. You pick up Power Attack at lvl 6 but you can't barely do anything with it because you have BAB +3, and you don't have the feat support to really stretch PA into being particularly useful. Imperious Command is a nice pick, but it comes online so late in your career that most games will be lucky to ever see it get any use. You have bad maneuvering, bad casting, and bad melee. You've tried to be different from the bunch by refusing to be a social-focused caster and instead trying to bake a bruiser into a social-caster pie, and it's just not working.

TL;DR you're trying to avoid being a one-trick-pony that Insidious Corruptor is kinda typecast into, which is good. But your jack-of-all-trades is less than the sum of his parts. Core-only Bard 20 would suffer similar jack-of-all-trades problems, but Core-only Bard 20 would also fight, cast, and manipulate better than you. That's not good.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.50: Template-Stacking
-0.25: Thug Fighter, 2-level dip
-0.25: Paladin Of Slaughter, 2-level dip
+0.25: Avoids multiclassing penalties
+0.50: Qualifies for all feats
+0.50: Qualifies for all PrCs
+0.25: Provides a list of sources
-0.25: Template RAW vs Balance

Template-stacking is frowned upon, and I've gotten into arguments with DMs who wouldn't allow half-fey to have full enchantment immunity. The dips are unfortunate, although I appreciate that you weave the levels such that you never have multiclass penalties, which is a problem a lot of contest builds tend to run into. You qualify for everything, so mostly what makes your build look weird is a couple questionable decisions that seems most definitely more for power than fluff.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.50: Starts SI extremely late
-1.00: 4 levels not taken
+0.50: Makes good use of four SI features

When it comes down to it, you're not really an Insidious Corruptor. You start the SI when most people would be wrapping it up. At lvl 14, you're still not an Insidious Corruptor at all, and actual play past lvl 14 is a bit rare. Even if we assume your table tends to play all the way to 20th, you don't really make much real use of the class abilities until you pick up Swift Enchantment and Irresistible charm - at 19th and 20th lvl respectively. You miss out on four levels of the class.

You aren't an Insidious Corruptor. You are a jack-of-all-trades who has begrudgingly spent 1/3 of their levels to have a neat lvl 20 gimmick. If you were playing this character in a real game, built however you pleased, you wouldn't take this class, even as a dip - 6 levels is just too much investment for what you're getting out of it. Still, you do make rather good use of those two abilities when you get them - they pair nicely with the rest of your build - so you get a tiny bit of credit.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Lesser Drow
+0.00: Urban Druid
+0.50: Feat selection
+0.00: Skill selection

I'll be honest, I didn't expect to see any kind of druid this round, especially an ACF that's a full tier weaker than normal druid. Points for style though - an urban druid could be a very interesting approach to Insidious Corruptor. Watching with interest.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.50: Low Level Power
+0.50: Low-Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid-High Level Power
+0.50: High Level Power

Compared with a lvl 20 caster, you've given up 1 CL and 1 spell level in exchange for all the Insidious Corruptor benefits. Every step of the way you've squeezed whatever extra potential you could out of corrupt spells, the companion feature, and synergies between them and your SI features. This build is playable and powerful from lvl 1 to 20 and honestly gives straight casting a run for its money. It falls a little behind in the middle (ie at lvl 13 you have CL 9/5th lvl spellcasting compared to CL 13/7th lvl spellcasting most casters will have), but you make it back up in the end, and the lost casting is complemented well by the SI. Full marks.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.50: Only one non-SI class
+0.25: Avoids multiclassing penalties
+0.50: Qualifies for all feats
+0.50: Qualifies for all PrCs
+0.25: Provides a list of sources

Few builds are as elegant as this. Nothing to complain about, full marks once again.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.25: Starts SI on time
+0.25: Completes SI
+1.50: Makes good use of all SI feature

It's amazing how you took a crap class and weaved together something that makes use of the whole ingredient to great effect. I love how the companion pairs with Swift Enchantment for immediate-action defensive-debuffs. I love how it supports the party. I love how it abuses meh abilities to really cause the enemy problems. This is a fantastic use of Insidious Corruptor - using an Iron Chef ingredient to make a build that can compete with full casters is pretty impressive. Full marks once again.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Lesser Drow
-0.25: Necropolitan
-0.50: Enchanter Wizard
-0.25: Mindbender
-0.50: Ur-Priest
-0.25: Mystic Theurge
+0.25: Feat selection
+0.00: Skill selection

Oh wow would you look at that, Lesser Drow and Necropolitan, that's soooo much more interesting. Oh wow a Mindbender dip. Oh wow, Wizard/Ur-Priest/Mystic Theurge, never seen that before. There's a few neat feats I guess. DMM: Heighten is a weird one.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.50: Low Level Power
+0.25: Low-Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid-High Level Power
+0.25: High Level Power

Your casting progression starts out going full speed, but it slows down for those dips and your spell level and CL don't really catch up until pretty late in your build - and even then you're a bit behind. Still, solid casting throughout and some decent synergy with the SI gives you a pretty great score here.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: "Technically, Necropolitan is LA +0, and XP is a river anyway, so it's essentially free"
-0.50: Mindbender, 1-level dip
-0.25: Ur-Priest, 2-level dip
-0.25: Mystic Theurge, 2-level dip
+0.25: Avoids multiclassing penalties
+0.50: Qualifies for all feats*
+0.50: Qualifies for all
+0.25: List of sources

Your build is a mess, and I could see more than a few DMs having some serious problems with it. That these crimes against elegance are being committed because the build has to make room for the SI is no excuse.

*: I wasn't sure how to judge DMM Heighten so I asked my resident grognard DM for his opinion and he thought it was a bit weak, especially without the addons mentioned. I think it's problematic by RAW ("The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level" but DMM makes effective level normal level, so...hmm), but I and other DMs would probably allow it. It's not that problematic in its effect, though - the only weirdness is that Heighten Spell is a weird metamagic. I think most DMs would rule that it works how you'd expect it to work, and that "how you'd expect it to work" is perfectly fine for what you're investing.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Starts SI late
+0.25: Finishes SI
+0.50: Makes good use of four SI features

Fairly standard. You're using Insidious Corruptor benefits to make up for the fact that the build you went in with isn't much for Cha-based casting shenanigans in the first place, and IC makes up for that over time. Still, most campaigns will wrap up before you get the really fun abilities, and you don't really make mention of how to get good mileage out of them either. I'd have appreciated more strategizing about how to pair features with your specific casting, rather than vague handwaving of "this ability is useful for stuff".

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.00: Half-Drow
-0.25: Bard
-0.25: Sorcerer
+0.25: Fiend-Blooded
+0.25: Fatespinner
+0.75: Feat selection
+0.25: Skill selection

This build is doing a lot of unexpected things, and Doomspeak is a fantastic find that I'll have to make note of for my own use later. I'll also say that while I wasn't expecting Half-Drow for this, it's surprisingly less awful for this contest than Half-Elves usually are.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.00: Low Level Power
+0.25: Low-Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid Level Power
+0.50: Mid-High Level Power
+0.25: High Level Power

Your sorcerer casting is 1 CL and 1 spell level behind where casters will generally be, to start out, and that increases with every Insidious Corruptor level. You're making good enough use of your SI features that you're not falling too far behind despite that casting loss, but it still hurts you a bit.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.50: Bard, 1-level dip
-0.25: Fiend-Blooded, 2-level dip
+0.25: Avoids multiclassing penalties
+0.50: Qualifies for all feats
+0.50: Qualifies for all PrCs
+0.25: List of sources
-0.25: Slight item dependency

I don't like the dips or the extra PrCs, but that's about all there is to complain about here. One of your big tricks does kinda depend on a common charop item letting you abuse the action economy, so a slight ding for that.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.25: Starts SI on time
-0.50: 2 levels not taken
+0.50: Makes good use of four SI features

You get kudos for finding an unorthodox way to enter the SI on time, and you make good use of the features you get, but you didn't finish the SI, and that's a paddlin'.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.00: Half-Drow
-0.25: Paladin Of Tyranny
+0.00: Crusader
+0.25: Consecrated Harrier
-0.25: Ruby Knight Vindicator
+0.25: Feat selection
+0.00: Skill selection

It's a RKV build, but worse because it has to accommodate the SI. Ultimately ends up pretty average. Law devotion wasn't expected I guess.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.50: Low Level Power
+0.25: Low-Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid-High Level Power
+0.00: High Level Power

You start out fairly strong for a beatstick, and while you fall behind as a result of not being a real caster, you get enough stuff that you're not too far behind. Even so, we both know full well that "full consecrated harrier casting" sounds way more impressive than "4th lvl spells at lvl 15". Unfortunately, this isn't the category where you get points for presentation.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Crusader, 2-level dip
-0.50: Consecrated Harrier, 1-level dip
+0.25: Avoids multiclassing penalties
+0.50: Qualifies for all feats
-0.50: Never qualifies for Consecrated Harrier
-0.50: Eventually qualifies for Insidious Corruptor
-0.25: No list of sources

Consecrated Harrier requires the Track feat, which you never took. Now, let's ignore that for a second and pretend you 100% qualify for Consecrated Harrier. RKV 7 gives +5 levels of casting progression. That means you cast as a CH 6 at lvl 13, which means no 4th lvl spell slots, which means you don't qualify for Insidious Corruptor since you can't cast dominate person. Buuuuut you qualify at lvl 15, so you're eventually okay. I've already stated my general rule about qualifications that are eventually met.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.50: Enters SI extremely late
-0.75: 3 levels not taken
+0.50: Makes good use of four SI features

You enter so late that a lot of games will never see you with even a single level in this class. You don't end up finishing it, and it's mostly used for late-game gimmicks to tack onto your actual combat styles. Where Swift Enchantment is a cornerstone of some builds here, for you it's "a back-pocket tactic against the right enemy". The SI is supposed to be the main course, not the side-dish to an RKV steak.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.00: Half-Drow
+0.25: SA Thug Fighter
+0.25: Scarlet Corsair
+0.25: Divine Crusader
+0.50: Feat selection
+0.00: Skill selection
+0.25: Unexpected entry
+0.50: Overall concept

Another divine crusader beatstick character...and this one's a pirate! In particular the method of entry for Insidious Corruptor is a nice find. You're avoiding a lot of things I was expecting, so I'm looking forward to how you follow it up.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.50: Low Level Power
+0.50: Low-Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid-High Level Power
+0.25: High Level Power

Low levels, you're a solid beatstick. Low-mid, free action feinting makes up for the lack of casting. Mid-levels you suffer a bit while Insidious Corruptor and Divine Crusader are really coming online, and while you never catch up to proper casting in terms of total capability, you're by no means weak past that point.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Divine Crusader, 2-level dip
+0.25: Avoids multiclassing penalties
+0.50: Qualifies for all feats
+0.50: Qualifies for all PrCs
+0.25: List of sources

This build is relatively clean, with the dip and the extra PrCs the only things to really complain about.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Starts SI late
+0.25: Finishes SI
+1.50: Makes good use of all SI features

A fantastic highlight of the secret ingredient, even if it comes online a little late.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Lesser Drow
+0.00: Warblade
-0.25: Cloistered Cleric
-0.25: Binder
-0.25: Ruby Knight Vindicator
+0.50: Feat selections
+0.00: Skill selection

A bunch of expected elements thrown together around the SI. Feats are neat though.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.5: Low Level Power
+0.00: Low-Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid-High Level Power
+0.25: High Level Power

Start out strong, fall behind quickly with the sum of your parts less than the total, and you never really catch up. Underwhelming casting for most of your career, same for maneuvers, same for binding. Skills are good, but won't stand on their own, and IC abilities really build off whatever else you've got going. You've got some powerful mid-level tricks coming online at the high levels, but that's true of a lot of bad builds.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.50: Warblade, 1-level dip
-0.50: Binder, 1-level dip
+0.25: Avoids multiclassing penalties
+0.50: Qualifies for all feats
+0.50: Qualifies for all PrCs
+0.25: List of sources
-0.25: Illegal Point-Buy

Hate the dips but you're doing great besides that.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Start SI late
-1.00: 4 levels not taken
+0.50: Good use of 4 SI features

You use what you get, but you skip out on the later levels in favor of more casting and maneuvers.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Lesser Drow
+0.25: Sha'ir
+0.00: War Weaver
+0.25: Feat selection
+0.25: Skill selection

Sha'ir and War Weaver are interesting choices here. Looking forward to seeing if War Weaver's weirdness pairs well with Insidious Corruptor's.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.50: Low Level Power
+0.25: Low-Mid Level Power
+0.50: Mid Level Power
+0.50: Mid-High Level Power
+0.25: High Level Power

Losing 1 CL right when casting is really taking off hurts, but by the mid-levels, War Weaver features have made up the difference. The lost casting from IC still hurts, but the features pair well so it all evens out. Absolutely fantastic.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.25: 2 non-SI classes
+0.25: Avoids multiclassing penalties
+0.50: Qualifies for all feats
+0.50: Qualifies for all PrCs
+0.25: List of sources
-0.25: Illegal Point-Buy

Just a hair away from perfect elegance.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Starts SI late
+0.25: Finishes SI
+0.50: Makes good use of 4 SI features

I'm sure you can get some use out of even more SI features, but they weren't really mentioned much or explored in strategic uses. They're not the focus and it shows. A perfectly serviceable use of the SI.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.00: Half-Drow
-0.25: Bard
+0.25: Fiend-Blooded
-0.50: Sublime Chord
+0.25: Feat selection
+0.25: Skill selection

Sublime Chord is a pretty obvious way to have your social manipulation and casting progression without the 5/10 SI ruining the latter. The rest is pretty good though. Average overall.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.00: Low Level Power
+0.00: Low-Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid Level Power
+0.50: Mid-High Level Power
+0.50: High Level Power

Straight bard out the gate isn't great, but isn't bad either. Fiend-Blooded is a nice trick to enter the SI, and Sublime Chord+Insidious Corruptor is a good way to get some serious casting in the back half of your build. You still end up behind a proper caster, but you've got special abilities and spell quantity making up for it a good deal.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.50: Sublime Chord, 1-level dip
+0.25: Avoids multiclassing penalties
+0.50: Qualifies for all feats
+0.50: Qualifies for all PrCs
+0.25: List of sources

But for the dip and the extra PrCs, nothing to complain about.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.25: Enters SI on time
+0.25: Finishes SI
+1.50: Makes good use of all SI features

Full mark. A straightforward and solid demonstration of the SI's potential when paired with a good fast-casting class. In particular, the early spell access Sublime Chord gets pairs well with the various SI features.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.25: Any race that isn't even remotely drow
-0.25: Cloistered Cleric
+0.00: Fangshield Druid
+0.25: Nar Demonbinder
+0.25: Feat selection
+0.00: Skill selection

The race is a bit surprising, which leads to a couple neat feats. Not much beyond that worth mentioning.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.50: Low Level Power
+0.25: Low-Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid-High Level Power
+0.25: High Level Power

Cleric 1/Druid 3 isn't too bad, since druid is awesome, and low levels is where you can afford for your casting to fall behind a tiny bit. Nar Demonbinder/Insidious Corruptor keeps your casting from falling too far behind, but once you're a spell level down it's gonna start impacting you, and what you're abusing from IC isn't quite making up the difference. Versatile Spellcaster to double-cast 8th lvl slots for Dominate Monster is a pretty nice trick, although it also comes online a bit too late to make a huge difference to the build overall.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.50: Cloistered Cleric, 1-level dip
-0.25: Nar Demonbinder, 2-level dip
+0.25: Avoids multiclassing penalties
-0.25: "I'm good enough at lying to be Evil in a Good organization"
-0.25: "Any DM that doesn't let you pay to go to prison for stat bumps is a fascist"
-0.50: "I count as half-drow when I'm wild-shaped, that means I get to have the SI all the time"

Even beyond the dips, this build has multiple weird interpretations that I can see resulting in arguments with a DM, and I don't really see you getting your way all three times outside a very permissive setup. RAW isn't a flawless shield.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Starts SI late
+0.25: Finishes SI
+1.00: Makes good use of most SI features

You're mostly good here, outside of any elegance arguments about qualification. I particularly like that you've mentioned some synergy with a few druid enchantment spells.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Lesser Drow
+0.00: Shaman
+0.25: Mystic Wanderer
+0.00: Contemplative
+0.25: Feat selection
+0.00: Skill selection

MW is pretty surprising, the others a little bit less so. This build is mostly pretty standard but it's nice to see some variety.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.50: Low Level Power
+0.50: Low-Mid Level Power
+0.50: Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid-High Level Power
+0.25: High Level Power

Your casting only starts falling behind around 12th lvl, and the features you get are making up enough of the difference that you get full marks here.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.50: Contemplative, 1-level dip
+0.25: Avoids multiclassing penalties
+0.50: Qualifies for all feats
+0.50: Qualifies for all PrCs
+0.25: List of sources

That 1-level dip robbed you of .75 points. You're basically perfect besides that.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Starts SI late
+0.25: Finishes SI
+1.00: Good use of most SI features

I'm seeing a lot of good synergy between Shaman, Mystic Wanderer, and Insidious Corruptor. Solid build overall.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Lesser Drow
+0.25: Shugenja
+0.25: Elemental Archon
+0.50: Feat selection
+0.00: Skill selection

A shugenja build should be interesting...

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.50: Low Level Power
+0.50: Low-Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid-High Level Power
+0.25: High Level Power

Your casting suffers a bit in the back half of the build, and there's not as much synergy going on as I'd like. Still, 7th lvl spells with IC benefits is nothing to sneeze at, and you've got a solid list there.

+3.00: Starting Position
+0.25: 2 non-SI classes
-0.25: Elemental Archon, 2-level dip
+0.25: Avoids multiclass penalties
+0.50: Qualifies for all feats
+0.50: Qualifies for all PrCs
+0.25: List of sources

Little to complain about besides the dip.

+3.00: Starting Position
-0.25: Starts SI late
+0.25: Finishes SI
+1.00: Makes good use of most SI features

Maybe it's just not having shugenja earlier on the list, but I'm enjoying the tricks here a lot more than I have for some previous builds. The thematic synergy with air shugenja is nice too.

H_H_F_F

2020-12-12, 01:29 AM

Thanks for judging, AvatarVecna!

AvatarVecna

2020-12-12, 08:47 AM

Thanks for judging, AvatarVecna!

Not a problem. I look forward to telling disputes to take a hike.

The Viscount

2020-12-12, 12:18 PM

Thank you for judging AvatarVecna!

As for the deadline, I wasn't thinking when I posted it as the standard 2 weeks. If people are eager to judge but need more time we can extend it like we usually do around the holidays.

Thurbane

2020-12-12, 02:15 PM

Re-evaluating my schedule, I won't be able to judge. Apologies.

The Viscount

2020-12-12, 03:56 PM

Re-evaluating my schedule, I won't be able to judge. Apologies.

No worries, Thurbane.

Zaq

2020-12-12, 06:00 PM

Thanks for a speedy (and, from a quick read, ultimately quite fair, even if you penalize some things I personally wouldn't ever penalize) judgment, AvatarVecna!

I like your judging format quite a lot. Clean and easy to read without robbing the chef of that sweet sweet commentary that needs to flow into our veins.

AvatarVecna

2020-12-12, 06:52 PM

A quick note: Faderyn's score has been bumped +0.5 in total. +0.25 is because another glance indicated that I hadn't given his lvl 13-16 stats quite as much credit as they deserved. Additionally, I found that I'd given him an Elegance penalty for Lesser Drow that nobody else received. Given that I'm already penalizing it on everybody for Originality, and given that I'm lazy and it's easier to change one thing than like...five...I just removed the penalty from Faderyn. He's still the lowest-scoring build out of all of them.

The Viscount

2020-12-13, 02:34 AM

Speaking of Faderyn, I have a dispute for you, AvatarVecna.

First thing first: thank you for judging, AvatarVecna!

Now, I was seriously considering not tabling this dispute, as it couldn’t possibly bring Faderyn anywhere near a medal. However, I decided that I still wish to defend the honor of my ugly duckling. If this dispute somehow ends up being the only thing delaying the reveal, just skip it – but otherwise, I would like you to address my concerns, as I feel my build was judged somewhat unfairly. Here are my issues:

1. Only one other entry qualified for dominate person without being able to cast it. It was mentioned in their originality, so it may have given them a boost. Faderyn’s case didn’t get mentioned – so if a boost was given for qualifying through unusual means, I find it strange. If it didn’t, you may ignore this point.
(As an aside, this also connects to his late entry – he got into the SI the moment he could, and stuck with it to the end. The earliest one could qualify with his entry method would’ve been one ECL earlier, by having less LA.)

2. You’re mistaken about his bonuses at ECL 5 (and maybe at further levels?). His saves are +7/1/0, his to-hit is +8, his damage is 1d10 +9.
I also tend to assume full HD at first level, as per the rules, which would put him at 21 HP. However, I accept that this contest may be geared towards NPCs, which would make your calculation the correct one. I have more disagreements that may or may not stem from this issue, and they are developed in points 3, 4, and 4.5.

3. Tankiness: at ECL 5 his HP is better than 4, worse than 7. It’s better if you assume full HP at level 1. Not great, but not aweful, and changes quickly. By the end, Faderyn is the tankiest submission.
He’s also tactically less vulnerable than most entries, including the casters, by having a 60 ft. flight speed and flyby attack. His reflex save, at +1 (not minus 1), is not that different from most of the field. His will save is worse – but he’s also immune to all enchantment spells and effects. Besides, all his saves increase by 6 just one level later.
He’s also not just a bruiser – especially at this level, he’s also a face. A couple of face skills and +6 CHA go a long way at this ECL, and he has an at-will charm person (dc 17). He doesn’t need to be any tankier than the rest of the field, and he’s not even doing that bad.
Lastly, how is his AC atrocious? He’s wearing plate with a +1 dex modifier. That’s above standard for a melee brute, it’s a good AC, and it’s also (as far as I can tell) the best AC on the field outside of polymorph or wildshape.

4. Power attack: First off, at ECL 5, he has the same to-hit as a full bab, 16 Str, 0 la entry. 5+3, 2+6. That stays the case up to ECL 10. I don’t think you’d penalize anyone for taking PA with those stats, and anyone taking a steeper punishment at ECL 5 than a +2 is taking a risk as is. PA also makes sense given his 1/day smite for +6 to-hit, and it especially makes sense for him at ECL 7 (just one level later!) when he gets access to Emerald Razor. He’s not usually a full attacker, and with Flyby and Emerald Razor, he can do some serious damage. I’d be a fool not to take PA.

4.5. I feel that this connects with the previous point. Yes, LA is hard at early levels. That is why you yourself mentioned not being a lesser drow would take balls. But Faderyn is negating those vulnerabilities unusually well from level 1 with his feat choice, his split-role, and his fighting style, and that trend continues throughout his career. I feel like you’re overblowing his vulnerabilities and downplaying his achievements – again, he should have equivalent to-hit and equivalent or better damage than a full bab, 16 STR from his very first level, he’s got good immunities from level 1 and great saves from level 3, and he’s got the best AC a character can have without being explicitly focused on AC through class choices, or carrying a shield.

5. As for taking the SI, I respectfully disagree that it’s such a terrible choice for Faderyn. He gets all the spells he cares about, including one that makes the loss of bab less of an issue – a loss of bab that probably only exceeds by 1 the bab he would lose for staying a full caster, and getting Greater Shout and Storm of Vengeance. Half casters are the main option we need to look at here, and as far as half casters go: insidious corruptor gives him the skill points to make intimidate happen, lets him buff his subordinates’ allies’ perception, some utility he lacks as a due to his limited casting/slas, a debuff that is very well suited to his chassis (more on that in section 6) and two phenomenal abilities which work wonders for his chassis, letting him use his high level SLAs without losing any actions he needs for fighting or intimidating while flying around the battlefield.

6. I assume the 2 abilities he gets credit for using are the ones you mention. He doesn’t seem to get any credit for making use of manipulation. As I’ve mentioned, it is absolutely clutch for a melee, especially at high levels where huge full attacks are quite common, and especially for a melee who (most of the time) doesn’t want to full attack himself. “Move or suck” is awesome for Faderyn, and explicitly mentioned. It might go slightly out of fashion once he can do some truly insane stuff with swift enchantment, but it’s an excellent use of his immediate action for 3 levels, and remains a solid option to the end.

I hope I didn’t write too much. I appreciate you devoting the time and attention to judgement! None of my disagreements change that.

AvatarVecna

2020-12-13, 11:55 AM

1. Only one other entry qualified for dominate person without being able to cast it. It was mentioned in their originality, so it may have given them a boost. Faderyn’s case didn’t get mentioned – so if a boost was given for qualifying through unusual means, I find it strange. If it didn’t, you may ignore this point.

Let us suppose that this were an alternate universe where templates that give you racial SLAs based off HD are only based on racial HD, and class HD don't count. If that were how the rules were set up, I would agree that qualifying via a template SLA is very unexpected - I would very much not expect somebody to show up with so much RHD and LA that they have dominate Person as an SLA, if that were how the rules worked. But as class levels contribute to HD for the purposes of accumulating template, somebody taking a weird template that gives Dominate Person SLA is a method I was expecting to see at least once for this contest. The one other entry that entered via an SLA got that SLA not from race or template, but from an aberrant dragonmark. Dragonmarks in general aren't particularly good, outside of a few noteworthy exceptions that can get pretty impressive, but even for that entry, this just resulted in a mention in their note section, not an increase to their originality score. Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I'll rectify it immediately.

Cap'n Calwyn/Originality +0.25: Unexpected Entry

(As an aside, this also connects to his late entry – he got into the SI the moment he could, and stuck with it to the end. The earliest one could qualify with his entry method would’ve been one ECL earlier, by having less LA.)

A fighter 100 who finally ascends to godhood and gets access to every spell in the game could then enter Insidious Corruptor and honestly say he entered the class as soon as he could, too. How early you specifically were able to enter the SI is not my concern, for your build or any other. This is a class where the straightforward entry has them starting the class at 8th lvl. If you started the class at 8th lvl, despite using weirder methods of entry, then you get points. If you started a bit later, you get a small penalty. If you enter extremely late, like after the point where a lot of campaigns will naturally die off or finish, you get a larger penalty. If you tried to play this specific build in a real game, even if it's with a long-time group of friends who aren't likely to quit a campaign before it's finished, you've only got maybe a 50% chance that Faderyn would have a single level in the SI before the campaign was concluded, and I consider that a serious problem.

2. You’re mistaken about his bonuses at ECL 5 (and maybe at further levels?). His saves are +7/1/0, his to-hit is +8, his damage is 1d10 +9.
I also tend to assume full HD at first level, as per the rules, which would put him at 21 HP. However, I accept that this contest may be geared towards NPCs, which would make your calculation the correct one. I have more disagreements that may or may not stem from this issue, and they are developed in points 3, 4, and 4.5.

It seems I based my assumption of your bonuses on your first line of attributes, that's definitely my mistake. However, I don't expect it to change anything that much.

3. Tankiness: at ECL 5 his HP is better than 4, worse than 7. It’s better if you assume full HP at level 1.

I assume "better than 4, worse than 7" is referring to the entries in order of submission, making 4 Master Of Puppets and 7 Ravre Xarann.

Faderyn: Fighter 1/Paladin 1, 2d10+6 (17), or 1d10+16 (21.5).

Master Of Puppets: Bard 1/Sorcerer 4, 1d8+4d4+4 (19.5), or 4d4+12 (22).

Ravre Xarann: Warblade 1/Cloistered Cleric 4, 1d12+4d6-10 (10.5) or 4d6+2 (16).

I guess you meant it the other way around? but also "I'm less tough than a Sorcerer, but tougher than a cloistered cleric with Con 6" isn't exactly impressing me about your hit points, my dude.

(Side-note: Master Of Puppets should have +2 Ref from Bard that isn't mentioned on their table, although that doesn't really boost their power enough to affect their score, it just makes them a good bit less vulnerable to fireballs than Faderyn is. More importantly, the drow twins have purchased 7s via point-buy, which isn't a thing. That's a paddling!)

Ravre Xarann/Elegance -0.25: Illegal Point-Buy

Apushri Xarann/Elegance -0.25: Illegal Point-Buy

Not great, but not aweful, and changes quickly.

I think that a frontline bruiser, flyby+reach or no, who is more vulnerable to fireballs and arrows than a sorcerer of the same ECL, has problems. That's not great, and it is awful. Yes, it changes quickly, but it takes awhile for the difference to get made up.

This is assuming the garbage NPC fighter build in the DMG. This is WotC optimized build. I'll even assume max at lvl 1, since the fighter does.

ECL
Faderyn
Fighter
Winner

1
-
1d10+2 (12)
Fighter +12

2
-
2d10+4 (19)
Fighter +19

3
-
3d10+6 (27)
Fighter +27

4
1d10+3 (13)
4d10+8 (34)
Fighter +21

5
2d10+6 (21)
5d10+10 (42)
Fighter +21

6
3d10+9 (30)
6d10+12 (45)
Fighter +15

7
4d10+12 (38)
7d10+14 (57)
Fighter +19

8
1d12+4d10+15 (48)
8d10+16 (64)
Fighter +16

9
2d12+4d10+18 (57)
9d10+18 (72)
Fighter +18

10
3d12+4d10+21 (67)
10d10+20 (79)
Fighter +12

11
3d12+4d10+1d8+24 (74)
11d10+22 (87)
Fighter +13

12
3d12+4d10+2d8+27 (82)
12d10+24 (94)
Fighter +12

13
3d12+4d10+3d8+30 (89)
13d10+26 (102)
Fighter +13

14
3d12+4d10+4d8+33 (97)
14d10+28 (109)
Fighter +12

15
3d12+4d10+4d8+1d6+36 (103)
15d10+30 (117)
Fighter +14

16
3d12+4d10+4d8+2d6+39 (110)
16d10+32 (124)
Fighter +14

17
3d12+4d10+4d8+3d6+42 (116)
17d10+34 (132)
Fighter +16

18
3d12+4d10+4d8+4d6+45 (123)
18d10+36 (139)
Fighter +16

19
3d12+4d10+4d8+5d6+48 (129)
19d10+38 (147)
Fighter +18

20
3d12+4d10+4d8+6d6+51 (136)
20d10+40 (154)
Fighter +18

By the end, Faderyn is the tankiest submission.

"In a caster contest, I made a beatstick. But look how many hit points he has by the end!"

Your relative HP tankiness is not why your power score is higher in the latter half of your build. I won't say it's completely irrelevant, but it's mostly irrelevant. Your high saves past lvl 6 matter far more, honestly.

He’s also tactically less vulnerable than most entries, including the casters, by having a 60 ft. flight speed and flyby attack. His reflex save, at +1 (not minus 1), is not that different from most of the field. His will save is worse – but he’s also immune to all enchantment spells and effects. Besides, all his saves increase by 6 just one level later.

My power rankings are split into 5 groups, which are 4 levels each. At lvl 4, you have a single HD, and a neat combat style that makes you virtually immune to melee and nothing else. It's a neat trick, but there's a good reason you're at full penalty for Low Power rank. By the time we get to Low-Mid Power rank (5-8), the LA is no longer the majority of your build, you've picked up a big save boost and Power Attack, and you've even started getting some maneuvers. It's still really late (Warblade 1 at lvl 8 means you don't have that many), but it's more than enough to pump you up a bit, even if I'd still rather be playing a straight paladin or warblade. That Cha to saves is a big part of why he remains relevant going forward.

As far as tactics go, flight with melee means he's still going into melee, even if it's with a reach weapon. But at lvl 5 onward, enemies with reach are already becoming fairly common, to say nothing of enemies that have had ranged attacks and casting for a few levels already. If you had flight, flyby attack, and reach weapons at lvl 1-4, instead of just at lvl 4 with your 1 bare HD, you'd be a lock for +0.50 Low Level Power, but as it stands, the low HP is just really hurting you early on, and regardless of your arguments to the contrary, I can't really pretend otherwise.

Finally, regarding your Will save, I'm in a bit of a weird spot. Because you're right, but it's a wash either way, at least with me specifically. See, the Half-Fey template gets a nice pile of SLAs and a fly speed. That's plenty worth LA +2. But it also gets that enchantment immunity. That's a really nice effect, even if it doesn't cover as much ground as proper MA immunity, but I also think it's a mistake, and I know I'm not the only one cuz I've gotten in arguments with a couple DMs trying to take Half-Fey myself. What it boils down to is that Fey aren't as a rule immune to enchantment the way Half-Fey are, but Fey are immune to things like Charm Person and Dominate Person because of the type targeting. Being a 3.0 template, the "this isn't a humanoid, so they're not affected by Person spells" line wasn't so ubiquitous yet, and it's been the opinion of idiots I argue with frequently that if Half-Fey had originally been made in 3.5, it would have such a line instead of the blanket enchantment immunity.

That being said, RAW is what it is, and it's not your fault the template is badly written. Given that it's not full MA immunity, though, it's not doing quite as much to overcome your bad Will save as you're making it out to do - the Cha to saves is doing far more for your Will defense than enchantment immunity at Low-Mid, for example. There's enough problematic low-level enchantments that I could maybe see this and your slightly higher AC being enough to boost your Low Level Power +0.25, but if this were included, it'd also warrant an Elegance penalty -0.25 for the ensuing argument. Hence why I say it's a wash. I'm fine making those changes, for what it matters.

Faderyn/Power +0.25: Low Level Power
Faderyn/Elegance -0.25: Template RAW vs Balance

He’s also not just a bruiser – especially at this level, he’s also a face. A couple of face skills and +6 CHA go a long way at this ECL, and he has an at-will charm person (dc 17).

This is a face contest. Everybody is a face. Everybody else was also a more impressive caster overall. I will admit I wasn't giving you much credit for at-will Charm Person, and while I feel it's not enough to drag up your Low Power score, I think that's enough to warrant a boost to Low-Mid and Mid.

Faderyn/Power +0.25: Low-Mid Level Power
Faderyn/Power +0.25: Mid Level Power

Lastly, how is his AC atrocious? He’s wearing plate with a +1 dex modifier. That’s above standard for a melee brute, it’s a good AC, and it’s also (as far as I can tell) the best AC on the field outside of polymorph or wildshape.

Part of it is that I initially thought you were looking at 17 with full plate, because I misread your attributes. 19 is better, but it's not enough to boost your low-level score because attack bonuses are still pretty decent on monsters of this level. But a bit more to the point, the others aren't metaphorically screaming "hit me". This is the whole point about your opening, isn't it? Where the other entries in the contest are being subtle and sneaky and using trickery and casting to their advantage, you're a big guy with a big weapon flying around and getting in people's faces. You're going to get attacked more, that's just the reality of things, and when I thought you were looking at AC 17/HP 17 for lvl 5 bruiser, that was kinda a problem. With AC 19, he's a lot more on-par defensively than I initially gave him credit for - although on its own that wouldn't be enough to bump his power.

(Granted: going forward, it becomes harder and harder to pump AC enough that it keeps up with monster attack bonuses, but as you advance in levels, your HP is no longer quite as proportionally abysmal as it was starting out, so I'll say that's a wash.)

4. Power attack: First off, at ECL 5, he has the same to-hit as a full bab, 16 Str, 0 la entry. 5+3, 2+6. That stays the case up to ECL 10. I don’t think you’d penalize anyone for taking PA with those stats, and anyone taking a steeper punishment at ECL 5 than a +2 is taking a risk as is. PA also makes sense given his 1/day smite for +6 to-hit, and it especially makes sense for him at ECL 7 (just one level later!) when he gets access to Emerald Razor. He’s not usually a full attacker, and with Flyby and Emerald Razor, he can do some serious damage. I’d be a fool not to take PA.

I'm not penalizing you for taking Power Attack, it's a good choice. But for 6th lvl, I expect ToBers to have maneuvers that are pulling a good deal more weight, and for Fighter 6 I expect Shock Trooper or Dungeoncrasher (or both) to have come online. For both, I expect iteratives to make a difference as well. PA isn't downgrading your score, it's just failing to upgrade your score as much as it does a more optimized beatstick build. You've got other advantages over such builds, sure, but your damage output isn't where I'd like it to be for a frontliner of your level.

4.5. I feel that this connects with the previous point. Yes, LA is hard at early levels. That is why you yourself mentioned not being a lesser drow would take balls. But Faderyn is negating those vulnerabilities unusually well from level 1 with his feat choice, his split-role, and his fighting style, and that trend continues throughout his career. I feel like you’re overblowing his vulnerabilities and downplaying his achievements – again, he should have equivalent to-hit and equivalent or better damage than a full bab, 16 STR from his very first level, he’s got good immunities from level 1 and great saves from level 3, and he’s got the best AC a character can have without being explicitly focused on AC through class choices, or carrying a shield.

His fighting style helps him against melee enemies who don't have reach. It's very useful for 1v1 against other bruiser PCs, it's less useful for fighting enemy monsters who can fly, or who have ranged attacks, or who have casting, or who have reach. Against enemies with reach, he's going to be sucking up an AoO every time he swoops down, so he's not even safe from monstrous beatsticks, and reach is showing up a lot more at this lvl.

Overall, regarding your power, though: if this were a beatstick contest, you'd be judged purely against other beatsticks. I wouldn't mark a dwarven defender contest as -0.50 across the board for everybody just because they don't have casting, and even if somebody managed to bring a mediocre caster into the contest, that would just bump their score, it wouldn't be significant enough for me to shift what a +0.00 is, or what a +0.50 is for that contest. But if somebody somehow found a way to bring a full-ish caster into that Dwarven Defender contest (say for example, Fighter 2/Beholder Mage 10/Dwarven Defender 8, somehow), that would be significant enough power imbalance to warrant not just full power marks for that character, but would lower everybody else since the bar had just been raised that much.

It's a similar situation here. Caster is the default, even if it's just half-caster. But where a lot of builds (including you, sort of) used fast-casting PrCs to sorta get around that problem while still essentially making a skilled caster from 1-20, you made a beatstick with some neat magic tricks. They are very neat magic tricks, especially near the end, but it's not giving you the same breadth as a lot of other entries are getting. Building what is essentially a noncaster for the caster contest not only lowered your own score a good deal, but it raised up everybody else because the lowest point had been redefined as "HD 1/ECL 4 beatstick".

Overall you've ended up getting quite a boost from this argument, but it's still not making that big a difference - I think you're just out of last place at this point, but that could very well change if the other low-scoring builds submit their own disputes.

5. As for taking the SI, I respectfully disagree that it’s such a terrible choice for Faderyn. He gets all the spells he cares about, including one that makes the loss of bab less of an issue – a loss of bab that probably only exceeds by 1 the bab he would lose for staying a full caster, and getting Greater Shout and Storm of Vengeance. Half casters are the main option we need to look at here, and as far as half casters go: insidious corruptor gives him the skill points to make intimidate happen, lets him buff his subordinates’ allies’ perception, some utility he lacks as a due to his limited casting/slas, a debuff that is very well suited to his chassis (more on that in section 6) and two phenomenal abilities which work wonders for his chassis, letting him use his high level SLAs without losing any actions he needs for fighting or intimidating while flying around the battlefield.

The loss of BAB wouldn't be an issue on a caster because they're primarily targeting touch. By your own admission in the very next part of your dispute, you are still a melee beatstick well into the high levels, and for somebody attacking AC, your low BAB is hurting you. You are the equivalent of a Monk with Dex 18 and no feat support, as far as your accuracy goes. I'm sure I don't have to educate you about what the community means by "flurry of misses".

Insidious Corruptor is synergizing well, which is why your power is doing well in the back half of your build (among other reasons). But when the really big boost comes online at ECL 19 and 20, it's not exactly impressing me as much as if it came online at 13th/14th, the way it would if you started on time. In any case, you weren't penalized for being somebody who'd be better off not taking the SI, it's more reflected in how the various SI abilities aren't really made use of (in no small part because you never get some of them).

6. I assume the 2 abilities he gets credit for using are the ones you mention. He doesn’t seem to get any credit for making use of manipulation. As I’ve mentioned, it is absolutely clutch for a melee, especially at high levels where huge full attacks are quite common, and especially for a melee who (most of the time) doesn’t want to full attack himself. “Move or suck” is awesome for Faderyn, and explicitly mentioned. It might go slightly out of fashion once he can do some truly insane stuff with swift enchantment, but it’s an excellent use of his immediate action for 3 levels, and remains a solid option to the end.

This is a fair point. I think at this point I was very done with Faderyn and didn't wanna give him credit for much of anything, but he does make good use of a couple other abilities.

Faderyn/UotSI +0.25: 2 additional abilities made good use of

AvatarVecna

2020-12-13, 12:03 PM

Made a sortable table so that we could easily enter scores in order while still being able to see who's scored highest.

Build
AvatarVecna
Total

Faderyn
11.75
11.75

The Truthseeker
18.25
18.25

The Betrayer Of Faith
12.50
12.50

Master Of Puppets
14.75
14.75

The Scarlet Overlord
11.25
11.25

Cap'n Calwyn
18.50
18.50

Ravre Xarann
12.25
12.25

Apushri Xarann
16.50
16.50

Grysylla Maure
16.25
16.25

Bob Yaga
13.50
13.50

Candle's Beacon
16.75
16.75

The Discourager Of Hesitancy
17.00
17.00

The Viscount

2020-12-13, 02:05 PM

One last clarification for you, AvatarVecna.

I just wanted to clarify that by "better than 4, worse than 7" I meant the number of entries on the field he had better or worse hitpoints than. I didn't mean to call out or even mention any specific entry!

No further disputes, thanks for considering my case.

EDIT:
And one more.

Thanks for judging AvatarVecna. I do have a few points of contention, however.

-0.25: Bard
-0.50: Sublime Chord

Sublime Chord is a pretty obvious way to have your social manipulation and casting progression without the 5/10 SI ruining the latter. The rest is pretty good though. Average overall.I feel like the expectation of Bard and Sublime Chord is overlapping. Seems like getting pinged twice for the same thing to get more than a -0.5 total for Bard/SC.

+0.00: Low Level Power
+0.00: Low-Mid Level Power
+0.25: Mid-High Level Power

Straight bard out the gate isn't great, but isn't bad either. Fiend-Blooded is a nice trick to enter the SI, and Sublime Chord+Insidious Corruptor is a good way to get some serious casting in the back half of your build. You still end up behind a proper caster, but you've got special abilities and spell quantity making up for it a good deal.I don't see how 'straight Bard paying feat taxes' is that much worse than 'Sneak Attack Fighter with 12 Str and Dex, Aberrant Dragonmark and Weapon Focus' or for that matter how 'Bard with early access to Dominate Person and an extra social skill boost' is notably worse than 'SA Fighter/Scarlet Corsair with said physical statline.' Low levels are the best time to be a martial character, but I don't think Fighter>Bard to that degree in that level range, or that Grysylla represents Bard optimization that far below the standard of Capt. Calwyn's Fighter optimization.

This isn't meant as a slight to Capt. Calwyn, just a comparison with a high-scoring build that I think is more favorable to Grysylla than how it was scored.

Also, mid-high levels are definitely being underestimated. Grysylla essentially catches up to a straight caster (or at least an enchantment-focused one) at those levels due to Sublime Chord being able to take advantage of Bard discounts on Irresistible Dance and Familial Geas (which are 8ths on the Sor/Wiz list), and the ability to swift cast them.

-0.50: Sublime Chord, 1-level dipThis seems like it's basically a penalty for using Sublime Chord, or really any accelerated casting PrC at all. It's basically impossible not to dip Sublime Chord in the context of Iron Chef, particularly a PrC with entry requirements like Insidious Corrupter's. Unless there's a method of entering earlier than I know of or anyone else used, it isn't possible to take more than 3 levels of Sublime Chord and finish the SI, and doing so would frankly seem weird and inelegant to me, since it would be taking effectively dead levels to avoid 'dipping,' which isn't really what you're doing when you enter a fast-casting PrC for the purpose of progressing it in the first place.

+1.00: Makes good use of most SI featuresWhich features do you feel Grysylla neglects compared to builds that got credit for making good use of all features? It seems to me that between having a familiar, social skill boosts, and high DCs she does about as well as anyone with various Claws of Influence features, and has a better spells to make use of the casting features than pretty much everyone else.

AvatarVecna

2020-12-13, 06:07 PM

I feel like the expectation of Bard and Sublime Chord is overlapping. Seems like getting pinged twice for the same thing to get more than a -0.5 total for Bard/SC.

With Originality, I don't look at the dish as a whole, I look at how expected/unexpected the individual ingredients are - I even went over this in my "general approach" spoiler.

Bard 10/Insidious Corruptor 10 is a straightforward build that could've been submitted for this contest. Bard gets 6th lvl casting, good social stuff, andu useful class features. It gets a good deal of focus in general charop discussions online for being a core class, but it's not something post people would think to immediately pair with Insidious Corruptor - it's decent enough, as you've shown, but sorcerer/wizard is obvious intended entry to get in on time, and IC doesn't steal those classes away from what used to be their primary features. This, in my mind, makes Bard about as expected for this kinda build as Incantatrix is for a thrower - Bard isn't specifically great as the lead-in to IC, but it's flexible enough that you can make it work really well with IC. So you get a slight ding.

Sublime Chord, on the other hand, is super-popular in online discussion for being a super-good fast-casting class (seriously, the tiers there go like....Beholder Mage, then Ur-Priest tied with Sublime Chord, then every other PrC that gets their own casting progression). But for this specific contest, where entering Beholder Mage first is a problem, and Ur-Priest has trouble qualifying, that makes Sublime Chord the best of the fast-caster PrCs to pair with this. It's a good pick. And it was my first thought for building when I saw the secret ingredient myself, so I 100% expected it, and it gets the big ding.

TL;DR Bard 10/Insidious Corruptor 10 is kinda expected but kinda weird. Bard 10/Sublime Chord 1/Insidious Corruptor 9 is exactly the kind of thing I was expecting for this particular round, so you get the extra-big penalty. Sucks, but that's how I handled originality for everybody - each element gets judged on its own.

I don't see how 'straight Bard paying feat taxes' is that much worse than 'Sneak Attack Fighter with 12 Str and Dex, Aberrant Dragonmark and Weapon Focus' or for that matter how 'Bard with early access to Dominate Person and an extra social skill boost' is notably worse than 'SA Fighter/Scarlet Corsair with said physical statline.' Low levels are the best time to be a martial character, but I don't think Fighter>Bard to that degree in that level range, or that Grysylla represents Bard optimization that far below the standard of Capt. Calwyn's Fighter optimization.[/quote]

It's worse because tier isn't everything.

At lvl 5, you're putting out 2 2nd lvl spells from up to 3 options, and you're giving a +1 to attack and damage for each teammate for a few minutes per day. You've got three social skills maxed out, compared with Cap'n's two. Cap'n having Str/Dex 12 means attack bonus is a point or maybe two behind where it should normally be, while damage is still up +3d6 at lvl 5. Even at low levels when spells are expensive to spend and don't do much, they can still be right handy. In the first third of the game, where limited-use abilities like bardic music and spellcasting are still coming into their own a bit, at-will abilities just shine more. Lvl 8 sees Cap'n with full BAB, full SA, and free action feint.

This argument seems to be that Fighter is T4, and Bard is T3, and that both builds seem to be trying about the same level of effort, therefore bard should still be considered better than fighter. And the hard truth is that tiers are more about mid-level play where most games take place - the levels where spells have started leaving behind fighters, where bardic music is getting good options and enough uses per day to always happen, the levels where scry-n-die happen. That's the point where Cap'n is no longer top-tier and starts making up the lost ground with casting of his own, and he's still falling behind almost to the point of +0.00 in the middle there.

(My scoring isn't super-granular here, but I will say that if I was measuring things in 10ths instead of 4ths, you'd be doing a bit better and Cap would be doing a bit worse.)

Also, mid-high levels are definitely being underestimated. Grysylla essentially catches up to a straight caster (or at least an enchantment-focused one) at those levels due to Sublime Chord being able to take advantage of Bard discounts on Irresistible Dance and Familial Geas (which are 8ths on the Sor/Wiz list), and the ability to swift cast them.

Getting two spells early is not the same thing as catching up to full casters in terms of capabilities - unless they're way more focused on enchantment than even y'all are, a straight sorcerer is still outplaying you in those mid-high levels. Individually-broken spells aren't what makes casters so great, it's the versatility and the overall power in concert. However, for some reason while writing it seems I thought you only got swift enchantment at lvl 16+, but looking back I'm not really sure why. Mid-High is definitely performing a bit better than I gave it credit for.

Grysylla Maure/Power +0.25: Mid-High Level Power

This seems like it's basically a penalty for using Sublime Chord, or really any accelerated casting PrC at all. It's basically impossible not to dip Sublime Chord in the context of Iron Chef, particularly a PrC with entry requirements like Insidious Corrupter's. Unless there's a method of entering earlier than I know of or anyone else used, it isn't possible to take more than 3 levels of Sublime Chord and finish the SI, and doing so would frankly seem weird and inelegant to me, since it would be taking effectively dead levels to avoid 'dipping,' which isn't really what you're doing when you enter a fast-casting PrC for the purpose of progressing it in the first place.

It is not a penalty aimed at such classes in particularly, although if you had asked me before the reveal "how many builds do you think will dip a fast-casting PrC", I would've said "all of them". It sucks that the major, obvious way for somebody to make Insidious Corruptor not suck quite as hard is to use a fast-casting PrC to mitigate the primary downside. It sucks even more than whenever I judge for any contest, I always penalize dips like this. But the fact that the SI sucks doesn't make dips any less controversial table-to-table. The fact that everybody did it is kinda the point: Faderyn is set up to be this hulking brute who has no time for all this casting nonsense outside his inherent divine gifts, so why dip into Divine Crusader? He didn't do it for fluff, he did it to min-max. You dipped for the same reason. Everybody dipped for the same reason. It's just the obvious and straightforward way to make this PrC worthwhile.

And that's great! Or at least, it's great for the Power section, and the UotSI section. In those, you'll get rewarded for choosing power and versatility over characterization, you'll get rewarded for finding ways to make the SI less painful. But in Elegance, at least as far as I'm concerned and IME playing at a number of tables that aren't virtual, a 2-level dip gets you the hairy eyeball, and a 1-level dip gets you an argument. Hence, penalties.

It sucks. I feel for you. But I'm not changing how I judge Elegance.

Which features do you feel Grysylla neglects compared to builds that got credit for making good use of all features? It seems to me that between having a familiar, social skill boosts, and high DCs she does about as well as anyone with various Claws of Influence features, and has a better spells to make use of the casting features than pretty much everyone else.

I think I messed that up. You mention Minion but not Greater Minion, and you mention Greater Manipulation and not the lesser version. You didn't mention Probe Thoughts but basically nobody did and it's kinda eh anyway.

Grysylla Maure/UotSI +0.50: Uses All SI features well

WhamBamSam

2020-12-13, 07:17 PM

Thanks for the speedy judging and responses AvatarVecna.

Looks like this round will close out on schedule, just in time for Christmas. I can only assume that Viscount has a choice lump of coal to place in our collective stocking, or worse*, that he means to light up our tree with Shining Blade.

*I'm actually sort of looking forward to Shining Blade, but y'know.

H_H_F_F

2020-12-13, 07:22 PM

.
*I'm actually sort of looking forward to Shining Blade, but y'know.

I'll be happy to judge Shining Blade when it comes, but there's no way in hell I'm cooking for it.

daremetoidareyo

2020-12-13, 08:12 PM

Shining blade! Shining blade!

Thurbane

2020-12-13, 08:42 PM

No, spare us from half-casters for a bit! lol

The Viscount

2020-12-13, 08:49 PM

I've got something selected for the holiday season. It isn't Shining Blade. We've suffered enough this year.

AvatarVecna

2020-12-13, 09:32 PM

I've got something selected for the holiday season. It isn't Shining Blade. We've suffered enough this year.

Beastmaster, and the winner is the person who cheats their way into 8 or 9 reindeer companions.

H_H_F_F

2020-12-14, 06:28 AM

Hiro Quester

2020-12-14, 11:07 AM

Do we have any other potential judges, that could submit judgement up to December 27th?

If yes, great. If not, then due to AvatarVecna's swift judgement, I'd say we can give it another couple of days for disputes and go on to the next round, no?

I would appreciate not waiting until the 27th for the next round, if nobody else is judging. I was too busy with my job to cook this round. But I'me done with all that by this weekend, and would love to do some fun thinking and writing, during the break if you we get a SI I can sink my teeth into.

Thurbane

2020-12-14, 02:45 PM

No, spare us from half-casters for a bit! lol

You know what might make an interesting ingredient at some point in the future? Witch Hunter (OA).

It's 5/10 casting (unless that was updated in Dragon?), but the advancement is more back-end loaded than usual, which would make it more likely to want to take all 10 levels.

Having said that, it's a pretty bland PrC.

H_H_F_F

2020-12-14, 04:27 PM

I would be in favour of one of the weird CAdv classes that don't advance anything in particular. Those are hard to deal with, but they have no "expected entry", which could make them very interesting. I think the Dread Pirate competition was a great example of how cool a flavourful ingredient doing its own thing can be.

Other than that, full bab 1-4 casting classes can always make great ingredients, IMO.

The Viscount

2020-12-14, 11:27 PM

Let it never be said that I am not a fair and just tyrant.

If you have a dispute or an intention to judge, PM/post something to that effect in the next 48 hours.

Zaq

2020-12-15, 10:22 AM

I have no disputes. Since I entered, I semi-obviously have no current intent to judge.

nosborm

2020-12-16, 01:51 PM

Venger

2020-12-16, 01:54 PM

It might just be a sampling bias. Speaking to the contest as a whole, such builds usually score poorly in elegance. Next round, if such a build speaks to you and you think you would have fun writing it up, go for it, but don't feel obligated to do whatever gets the most objective power if it's not what you're interested in. There are 3 categories besides power.

Wolfem will update the sheet after the reveal. He is extremely reliable about it but may be busy with holiday stuff as the rest of us are.

Zaq

2020-12-16, 02:19 PM

Big thank you to everyone for the help along the way and our judge (and chair)! I love this competition and I am thankful to be a part of it. I don't plan on judging and have no disputes here primarily because they're minor nitpicks and I don't think it would move the needle for my build.

However, I am a bit discouraged in that it seems the best way to 'win' Iron Chef (in general, not just this round) is to just go: Most Powerful Base Class 5 / Secret Ingredient 10 / Most Powerful PrC 5. Maybe that's just a mis-perception on my part but it's how I've interpreted the last two rounds I've been in. I contemplated Archivist 5 / IC 10 (or worse: Any 5 / Ur-Priest 5 / IC 10) but discarded it because it wasn't fun but perhaps this is Vizzini catching up with me. I'm ultimately glad I did and my score is slowly moving up to where I hope to compete, but I think I might be operating under the 'optimize with classes instead of feats' school of thought which hurts me in judging. Again, no shade at the judges, I really really really appreciate the time, effort, diligence, and commentary (and especially the formatting and rubric this round!), but I'm still learning what this particular competition prizes. Like I said, maybe I'm off the mark here due to a limited sample size, regardless I'll keep giving it the old college try.

Also, big thank you to our chair for the extension. I was also struggling to put everything in the right format and that was clutch for me to get it in. Sunday morning deadlines are really tough on my schedule. I was also glad to see almost all of my ideas were fleshed out either in builds or followup comments. Finally, thanks for all the help, advice, and encouragement. I am especially looking forward to using the formatting tips for next round. Please take care of yourselves everyone, I'm excited to see what we're cooking up next!

P.S. Is anyone updating the IC Google Sheet? That was a very helpful resource to link to every build, see scores, etc. I am happy to help with that but I only have read permissions currently.

I don't want to invalidate your feelings, nosborm! It sucks to feel like that and to feel that your efforts are just going in the wrong direction.

If it helps, though, I've won this contest a number of times, and never once has it been with a 5 / 10 / 5 build that just lunges for power. The closest to that was Memyadu (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=22893369&postcount=65) in the fatemaker round, but that was 9 / 9 / 1 (plus one LA) rather than 5 / 10 / 5, and it definitely wasn't starting with a T1 base.

There's never a single path to victory. Sometimes I win by going far enough into audacity that the judge can't help but appreciate it. Sometimes I win by simply making the judge less angry than the other builds do. Sometimes I come up with a clever new trick; sometimes I just put together a solid build that holds its own at low and high and doesn't need to rely on a single trick to do so.

I don't judge much recently, but when I do, honestly the ones that just lunge straight for juxtaposing a T1 base with a crap SI rarely go especially well, at least not if that's all they do and they don't really incorporate the SI into the mix. That said, if a build does do well incorporating the SI into the mix, well, that's kind of what it's all about, isn't it? We all want to showcase the ingredient. Sometimes you do that by sandbagging the rest of the build so that the SI doesn't get outshone (I once took third place in a round of sixteen by tanking my HP down to literally zero (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=19553609&postcount=256) so that I had a reason to use the SI's stupid primary ability) and sometimes you do that by finding a way to boost whatever (usually lackluster) trick the SI offers.

Venger is right. The most important thing you can do is make sure that you have fun with the build. And that isn't just feel-good "if you had fun, you're a winner!" pablum, either! When I'm judging, it's immediately apparent to me which chefs were having the most fun while cooking and which chefs were just frustrated and struggling with the ingredient. And no joke, the chefs who were having fun usually do better! If your heart's in a build, that honestly shows, even if it's not necessarily traditionally powerful.

My style tends towards the goofy and outlandish! Less so than, like, daremetoidareyo (love ya, dare!), but I'm generally not afraid to take a weird idea (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=22441645&postcount=106) and run with it (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24597225&postcount=49) (both of those builds took gold, and they were both bonkers) until I can't stop giggling during the writeup. And that often works! Is it the only thing I do? No, it's not. And my wacky builds don't always win! Some chefs tend to be a bit more cautious, and when they get into their groove, they can also win. It's about what works for you. You can't force it! But if it feels right or fun, you should probably go with it. One of the single most important lessons I've learned in Iron Chef is to never talk myself out of anything. Just grab it and lean in!

H_H_F_F

2020-12-16, 02:26 PM

Nosborm:

I get where you're coming from, but I don't think that's the case. Looking at the past few competitions before the last one, we're seeing no such tendency (or any real trend that would show a wat to "hack the system") in Primeval. In Atavist we can see Piggy slaughtering the competition (and rightly so) with Mother Jones, one of the messiest builds I've ever seen. Psion Uncarnate saw Zaq winning with T.W, which, come on.

Even this round (though we shouldn't discuss it too much before the reveal) currently has Calwyn in the lead, and she doesn't answer to your description. If anyone does, it's Begida, and he's not doing so hot.

5-10-5 is pretty, and will often get an elegance boost. Powerful classes will obviously get a good power score. This kind of submission will always do pretty well - but to win, you need to get those and the two other categories. That takes work, and creativity, and weird synergies - all things you've proven yourself to be good at.

Also, I know I was harsh on Killer Mike last round, and I'm really sorry if that made you feel bad. But you can't say he lost because he didn't go 5-10-5. He lost because his entry was incomplete. Getting a 3 in elegance would tie him for gold - and I truly believe from looking at the scores that if you had a bit more time, and would have been more thoughtful and careful, he probably would have usurped Wynfrith and gotten the gold.

An entry like the one you've described would almost never be dead last. It would almost never win. If you get weird, you could crash and burn, hard, or you could pull off a victory. I think that's a big part of the fun.

I really hope you don't get discouraged, because I really want to keep seeing what you have to bring to the competition.

nosborm

2020-12-16, 02:44 PM

Wow! I did not expect such kind, thoughtful, and quick responses. It truly warms my heart (in a middle of a snowstorm no less) to be welcomed into such a wonderful community.

Venger is right. The most important thing you can do is make sure that you have fun with the build. And that isn't just feel-good "if you had fun, you're a winner!" pablum, either! When I'm judging, it's immediately apparent to me which chefs were having the most fun while cooking and which chefs were just frustrated and struggling with the ingredient. And no joke, the chefs who were having fun usually do better! If your heart's in a build, that honestly shows, even if it's not necessarily traditionally powerful.

I'm delighted to hear that it's likely just a fluke of the last few rounds and that my slightly off-beat / class-heavy entries are definitely welcomed in the arena.

I really hope you don't get discouraged, because I really want to keep seeing what you have to bring to the competition.

Killer Mike definitely deserved what he got and your honest feedback helped whip me into shape for this round! It actually helped motivate me a bit since I knew I could compete but I needed to really push myself to integrate the CharOp bits with everything else. Don't worry I'll keep cooking (assuming work doesn't overwhelm me come Spring time).

Venger - I didn't quote you directly but thank you for the words of encouragement!

EDIT: Currently dying of laughter after reading Lil' Brudder!

AvatarVecna

2020-12-16, 02:52 PM

Other people have already said the things I was thinking better, but I do have one thing to tack on to it: a round with a single judge is inevitably going to get skewed by that judge's biases - and every judge has them, for better or worse. The most we can do is hope that a one-judge round doesn't have somebody untethered from reality, the way we have in a couple rounds of Villainous.

I think fast casting is a cheap, easy, and boring way to make a half-caster SI not suck so hard; everybody already knows that Ur-Priest and Sublime Chord and Beholder Mage are great, dipping them for big power isn't some super-secret optimization trick that guarantees you first place. And whadayya know, 5 of the top 7 scored builds don't use fast-caster PrCs.

(But 1st place did, because even that particular bias isn't the end-all-be-all.)

Ultimately, I'm not changing how I judge builds because I'm not changing how I think about builds that much - this contest has introduced me to some neat tricks which will slightly tilt how I view particular options going forward, but at this point I've seen enough stuff that my general opinions about the edition and its subsystems are pretty well set. And that's okay, if I'm not the only judge - if somebody else steps up to give their opinions as well, our biases will inevitably be slightly different, and will balance each other out. 3 judges is the sweet spot, where unless a judge is actively judging in bad faith*, biases will be mostly erased and quality builds will rise to the top by their own merits. More than 3 can be better, but the jump from 2 to 3 is more important than the jump from 3 to 4, and even getting three judges is a big ask in the first place.

EDIT: *: Probably the worst thing I've ever done as a judge was in the Aerial Avenger round, where I gave everybody a UotSI penalty based on their power rating, because I hated the class so much that I thought "if you're not worthless, you've failed to correctly convey the spirit of the SI". Somehow, not a single dispute called me out on this.

H_H_F_F

2020-12-16, 05:02 PM

I'll definitely say that one of the things I liked a lot reading through previous rounds (before deciding to join in on the fun myself) was the multitude of judges highlighting their likes and dislikes about each build. Hopefully we'll manage to get back to that being the norm one day.

I judged solo for two rounds here, and it feels like a lot of pressure - knowing there'll be no one else to balance my errors of judgement.

Thurbane

2020-12-16, 05:46 PM

H_H_F_F

2020-12-16, 05:51 PM

Having done brief stints as chair of Villainous Comp and Junkyrd Wars, sometimes the toughest part was getting judges. It (judging) can definitely be a daunting task, that's for sure - I've only done it a handful of times myself.

I've told myself I'll try to judge (on average) once for every two times I cook. It's hard, but someone's gotta do it.

daremetoidareyo

2020-12-16, 06:06 PM

Zaq

2020-12-16, 06:15 PM

Look, im not one to give advice on this, cuz I don't play to win, and i sometimes make decisions i know will not go over very well and rely on argument that the rules *could* be interpreted in my favor.

My goal, typically, is to play to impress. And usually that means looking at a build component slantwise and figuring how to use it in a wierd way.

Dare, I can say with confidence that your builds always impress. I mean that with 100% sincerity.

AvatarVecna

2020-12-16, 06:30 PM

That reminds me, anybody got thoughts on Honorable Mention this time 'round?

The Viscount

2020-12-17, 12:52 AM

It's that time once again!

Congratulations to all of our chefs. I'm glad that people liked this weirdo ingredient. Next round up here. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624099-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-CVIII)

Build
AvatarVecna
Total
chef
place

Faderyn
11.75
11.75
H_H_F_F
10th

The Truthseeker
18.25
18.25
Korahir
2nd

Begida, The Betrayer Of Faith
12.50
12.50
H_H_F_F
8th

Master Of Puppets
14.75
14.75
Nosborm
6th

The Scarlet Overlord
11.25
11.25
Heavenblade
11th

Cap'n Calwyn
18.50
18.50
Zaq
1st

Ravre Xarann
12.25
12.25
Aplatypus
9th

Apushri Xarann
16.50
16.50
Aplatypus
4th

Grysylla Maure
16.25
16.25
WhamBamSam
5th

Bob Yaga
13.50
13.50
WhamBamSam
7th

Guru Ganath Candle's Beacon
16.75
16.75
Venger
3rd

The Discourager Of Hesitancy
17.00
17.00
The Viscount
N/A

Venger

2020-12-17, 12:59 AM

Congratulations to the other medalists.

H_H_F_F

2020-12-17, 04:36 AM

That was a fun round for sure! I really enjoyed the various entries.

My top pick is the captain, which I thought was very creative. Definitely deserved the win. I think her flaw and a lower power score would probably hold her back if I were judging, but she’d still be my favorite. I keep realizing I’m just a big fan of Zaq.

The Truthseeker was a great find for sure – I wasn’t familiar with the urban druid, and it works. Actually seems like a more natural entry than sorcerer or bard – Cha focused, dominate at the right level, required skills as class skills. Well done, Korahir!

Consecrated Harrier was a smart find for the purposes of a high bab build by Heavenblade. Shame about missing track and the second “dead” level of RKV.

Gotta give it to Whambamsam for Bob Yaga – he was NOT going for a gold with that build; “How many questionable decisions can I make in a pretty straight-forward 20 level build?” seems to have been the research question. I was truly impressed.
However, I did not see any way for him to give his hut legs. 0/10.

Finally, Viscount’s fluff on The Discourager of Hesitancy was my favorite this round.

As for my builds:Begida was my “boring idea” which I ended up thinking was worth submitting, as I found the task of getting 10 levels of the SI and 9th level prepared casting to be very difficult. I’m sure it seemed obvious to many of the more experienced optimizers here, but it was a challenge to me. I also liked the +3 to bluff from the elf sub level, the thematic (though therefore unoriginal) cohesion of his classes, and his high skill point count allowing him to get his face skills on. Speaking of which, I was very surprised with him being the only entry bothering with disguise. I know it’s not a prerequisite skill, but it’s obviously necessary for the chassis, IMO.
I was not expecting much from him, though I was surprised by 9th level ur priest casting not managing to get a +0.5 on late level power. I still hope his cohesion, simplicity, and his tricks for qualifying were enjoyable enough to be worth your time.

Faderyn went through a LOT of iterations. I was not hoping that he would place, especially once I saw the other submissions, but I definitely thought he’d do better than he did. The original idea was using half fey to qualify with a divine gish chassis. I ran into half fey while working on another build, and while I didn’t end up using it I liked it a lot, and marked it for future use. I didn’t know it was considered common or cheesy in optimization, especially not on a melee build, as I thought most people would dread 2 LA.
The original final build was an RKV, but I was unhappy with it. It really did feel like what Faderyn was (IMO incorrectly) eventually seen as – a build that took corruptor levels because it had to, that had an obviously better thing to do with said levels. What I wanted to do was to create a build that would be the opposite of the SI thematically, but would harmonize with it mechanically. Manipulation was my focus – I thought “move or suck” as a move action was very powerful, and I wanted to build around it. That meant I needed people to have a hard time pouncing me and reaching me, and I needed to not want to full attack them. Flyby attack was a natural fit, and I made a lot of effort to make sure I’ve got interesting melee things to do with a standard action despite my low bab. Touch attacks worked great for that, and fear tactics too – and those also synergized well with having the skill points, persuasive feat, high Cha and bluff synergy that the SI dictated.
However, I still didn’t want to submit the build until I ran into the wrath domain. After being unhappy with the original build, I looked up Lolth’s domains and started looking into them one by one. Wrath worked wonders for Faderyn thematically (He was actually called “The Wrath of Lolth” before becoming “The Furious Fae” so it just made sense,) it had plenty of enchantment spells without feeling like an enchantment domain at all, and it had Tenser’s Transformation – which was the final selling point or me. I’ve never seen it used efficiently before – you either don’t need it, don’t want it, or both – but on Faderyn it just worked. This is the point at which I felt everything clicked together well enough for me to be able to say that Faderyn really does benefit from the SI – not getting full Bab suddenly becomes pretty OK, and you have a very fun double-capstone with this and irresistible compulsion.
I was expecting Faderyn to score middle of the road in power (which he eventually did) and in UOSI (which he did not – the level-focused metric did NOT work in his favor), but I really thought he’d get pretty good elegance and good originality. Such is life. I still like him a lot.

Thanks to everyone for participating, big thanks to AvatarVecna for his judgement, and as always: Thank you to our wonderful chairman! Your work is always greatly appreciated.

See you all next round!