Trying to find suitable system/s for gritty modern->increasing fantasy

[Malachite]

Hi folks,

I'm trying to plan a game, but struggling to identify what system (or even systems) to run it in. Please avoid the following if you're in a Somerset, UK-based roleplaying group. Seriously, spoilers are no fun.
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All clear? Ok.


It would begin in a straight modern setting, with the players investigating a rise in conspiracy theories and strange happenings. At this stage, any enemies would be mundane foes and I'd prefer it to be more investigative than fighting. Going in guns blazing should mean things have escalated pretty far, particularly in a UK-based game where firearms are quite tightly regulated. I'd want any combat to be messy and dangerous, where the players need to win quick or have the wits to identify when things are turning against them and realise they need to get out of the situation.

I really liked the way the Cypher system manages to encourage this, with "GM intrusions" (normally occurring when a player rolls a 1) gradually increasing in frequency as the combat goes on (1-2 second round, 1-3 third round, etc.), but I'm not sure how well the system as a whole will fit the concept of the game. Perhaps Call of Cthulhu? I've never played it, though, let alone GMed.

As things progress, there would be increasing fantastic elements - some monstrous species are re-entering the world (perhaps orcs and trolls, for example) along with some other, more powerful entities working behind the scenes on both sides. At this stage, there would be more combat, though I'd like to avoid it becoming the sole focus - while a gun could certainly put down an orc, that orc's friend could really do a number on you in return with its sword, so combat would still be dangerous. Magic is beginning to be present, though it's not something the players would have access to in any form other than minor magical items ala Cloak of Invisibility or Tolkien-level items. If you've seen the Netflix film Bright, you'll know the power level I'm thinking of for the players (though it wouldn't go anywhere near as dark as that film went...)

Eventually, I'd like to progress things to an "awakening bloodline" style situation, where the characters are becoming more powerful and able to take on increasingly powerful foes, though still not being one-man armies. I'm torn on whether they ever gain access to explicitly magical powers, or whether we're just talking action hero-level abilities. You know, Ip Man/Ong Bak level martial arts and Equilibrium-level gun-fu. Like how Beowulf can wrestle Grendel's arm off but not throw a fireball. Orcs are now minions to be more inconvenience than genuine threat unless in great numbers or well-armed, and The Dragon (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDragon) may even be literal as well as a trope.

I'm not sure whether many systems that do gritty investigation in the shadows well could also support increasingly-epic modern fantasy, so I'm open to transitioning from one system to another at this point.


I'd really appreciate any advice the Playground can offer. The majority of my roleplaying experience has been in D&D4.5/5 (which I'm fairly certain are not the systems I want to use) followed by Dark Heresy and Weapons of the Gods (both are tied closely to their respective IPs and the latter is too high-powered for what I'm looking for, at least initially). I'm hoping the breadth of experience here can point me in the right direction.

Many thanks in advance!

[zarionofarabel]

Exalted, except the PCs start with ZERO Charms. As the Gonzo aspects are ramped up, give the PCs more and more Charms until they become the world shaking Exalts they were meant to be.

[Anonymouswizard]

GURPS would do this well. Combat is deadly, but according guns makes it slightly more survivable, it has a template for everything somewhere, and as a generic saying 'we're playing GURPS' won't spoil. On the downside the maths is very front loaded, and it's s lot of arithmetic to make a character (but nothing more complex than multiplying by fractions).

Fate might also work, with Compels possibly serving the same role as GM Intrusions. But the structure of the game might not be for your group, especially if possible don't like the idea of narrative mechanics, a metagame currency economy, or an adjective ladder.

World of Darkness/Chronicles of Darkness and Unknown Armies could both work, but magic in Unknown Armies is very much tied to the setting, and while EoD has a lot of supernatural elements they're assumed to have been around for a long time. But CofD might work using the design a monster rules rather than any of the gamelines, although it does have the side effect of making people expect fantasy elements.

[paddyfool]

It's been ages since I've played it, but d20 modern isn't a terrible fit. To fit with the power curve you want, you could either hand out XP fast, or invent a template that they acquire at level X with some extra stat bonuses etc.

[Malachite]

Thanks folks, some great suggestions there for me to have a look at!

[Belac93]

City of Mist is probably exactly what you're looking for, or maybe Urban Shadows. Both of them are PbtA games which will get you a better arc/character focused experience than trad-RPGs.

[Berenger]

The Urban Arcana Setting from d20 Modern is basically exactly this, you just have to switch off the Weirdness Censor (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WeirdnessCensor) if the general population is meant to be aware of these gradual intrusions. The system can do a transition from "gritty" (one good pistol shot can take down most level 1 characters) to "John McClane" action hero territory just by levelling up. If you want more gritty than that, you can easily replace the Hit Point system with a Wound Point / Vitality Point system. "Awakening bloodlines" can be done by allowing one or more player to take advanced classes with supernatural abilities (Shadow Slayer, Telepath, Mage...).

Link: http://www.d20resources.com/

[Malachite]

Thanks again, folks, all good suggestions!

I've considered Shadowrun too, and just cutting out the magical element to begin with - anyone have any experience with this system?

Also, how about the idea of running a game with a hidden system i.e. players declare their intent, maybe have an idea of their skills and bonuses, and the GM handles everything else behind the scenes? I played in this way when first introduced to D&D 2e (so still have no idea how that system actually works!), and am wondering whether this will increase player creativity by not trying to make everything fit into something they can use an ability for. To use the 2e example, my crazy dwarf fighter attached his axe to a rope and swung it around when faced with an invisible foe, made an impromptu gas mask out of a beer mug full of charcoal and set his armour on fire while fighting ice giants - all things there are no set mechanical rules for, and I don't know whether I'd have thought of those if I had a list of things I could do.

[Berenger]

I found Shadowrun much too complicated, but that may be because we only ever played it every couple of weeks / months and I kept forgetting too much between sessions to attain system mastery. I absolutely love the (depth of the) setting.

Hidden system: Not my cup of tea, as I enjoy the character building minigame. Also, with no mechanically informed decisions to make for the players, there is little need for a system at all, the game master can just allow whatever idea he likes or finds reasonable for a given character concept, deny any idea he finds unreasonable and let the player flip a coin if he is not sure.

[DeTess]

I've considered Shadowrun too, and just cutting out the magical element to begin with - anyone have any experience with this system?


Shadowrun has the advantage that most of the special stuff (hacking, magic, cyberware, being a crazy drone-mom, etc.) has their own separate subsystem, so cutting them out and introducing them later, if at all, isn't that hard. All editions are really crunchy though, and all have some serious flaws. In my opinion, the Shadowrun rulebooks are better used as setting source books to pair with a lighter system like Fate or similar, and I definitely wouldn't use the Shadowrun rules to run something that isn't Shadowrun.

edit: if you want to keep the focus mostly on non-combat stuff, Fate might be pretty good. Otherwise you'll need something capable to support a bit more crunchy combat and progression.

[Morty]

Other than the suggestions so far, I feel like Savage Worlds wouldn't be a bad option. A modern/sci-fi setting with superpowers and/or magic is arguably its default mood.

[Seto]

Not sure if that's the best system for it, but I've run that exact kind of progression in FATE. (FATE accelerated, to be precise). It's rules-lite, if that's okay.
The reason that it worked is that the DCs aren't fixed numbers, but they represent difficulty relative to the characters. My PCs started as normal people, and they rolled against Average DCs and Difficult DCs for picking a door or running away from spies. Then they gained increasingly stronger powers, to the point of being basically superheroes, able to teleport or create acid waves. Now, picking a door or running away from spies didn't require rolling, it wasn't meaningful opposition to them. I just let them declare they did it. They still rolled the same Average and Difficult DCs, but now those meant melting down a bunker or shielding their thoughts from a mind-reading superbeing.
Basically, don't change the numbers, just pick a narrative system that lets you think of it in terms of "A is trivial now, B has become average difficulty for the PCs". They roll the same kind of checks with the same kind of numbers for the whole adventure, but the same results lets them do greater things. Their playground keep expanding.

I think that StaRs, written by GrodtheGiant on these forums, had that kind of mechanic too. The same numbers could mean different things according to what "scope" you were rolling them in: average, action hero, superhero etc.

[Xervous]

Cutting out the matrix, drones, cybernetics and most magic generally removes most of the problematic mechanics from various editions of Shadowrun. To be fair you are removing most of the game at that point... but the mechanical framework and general game flow with incentives heavily being on avoiding messy combat while still being prepared to do or die should remain in place.

Shadowrun is a case of heavy rules and thematics overlap, so there’s going to be a lot of home brewing to fill the gaps if you cut off all the features that don’t fit your world. Without all the cyberpunk and magic you’ve got the character skill framework, items and not much else.

[DrMartin]

A cute system that could serve you well is Double Cross. The premise to the game is that a virus can mutate humans and grant them powers they can use, but the more they use their powers, the more the virus takes over. The last stage is becoming a real monster, when the disease takes over. This would be your dragons and trolls and other classic fantasy critters.

In the game all the players are supposed to start with powers, but nothing stops you from having them start as normies and have them get the virus that grants them their syndromes (powers) gradually.

The game focuses a lot on relationships and how your bonds with other humans plays a role on keeping your inner monster in check. During characer creation you pick connection with known NPCs and other player, and those have a clearly defined mechanical weight in the game.

It has quite a few of interesting ideas, like awarding xps to the player instead of the character (and this includes the GM) to encourage troupe play, rotating GMs, and being OK in having a character overdo it and turn into a monster if the story demands (you get your xp refunded).

The game suggests framing sessions in scenes to steer the play toward a cinematic experience - this is the part of the system I didn´t like quite as much as other parts, as you sort of need to decide ahead if there are stakes and possible drama in what is about to happen (that makes it a "real" scene, and characters who wants to take part need to acquire encroachment, which is the stat that determines how much the virus has power over you) or if it´s just "free play", where more or less people just describe what happens. Switching from one to the other felt kind of clunky when I played, but that goes down to system familiarity I guess.

The game comes from Japan but nothing in the setting is particuarly tied to it - except the art, which is clearly anime.

[DeTess]

A cute system that could serve you well is Double Cross.

This sounds like a really cool system!

[Mutazoia]

I would suggest taking a look at "Call of Cthulhu"

[Satinavian]

Thanks again, folks, all good suggestions!

I've considered Shadowrun too, and just cutting out the magical element to begin with - anyone have any experience with this system?
Shadowrun can work. Especially martial adepts there would allow you to do the slow empowerment of the PCs pretty well. Downsides are that SR derives a lot of fun from cool powers and futuristic gadgets which you all intend to cut. The base system might be a bit bland. Another problem is that small dice pools often lead to hard to predict results.


Also, how about the idea of running a game with a hidden system i.e. players declare their intent, maybe have an idea of their skills and bonuses, and the GM handles everything else behind the scenes? I played in this way when first introduced to D&D 2e (so still have no idea how that system actually works!), and am wondering whether this will increase player creativity by not trying to make everything fit into something they can use an ability for. To use the 2e example, my crazy dwarf fighter attached his axe to a rope and swung it around when faced with an invisible foe, made an impromptu gas mask out of a beer mug full of charcoal and set his armour on fire while fighting ice giants - all things there are no set mechanical rules for, and I don't know whether I'd have thought of those if I had a list of things I could do.I would strongly advise against this. Proper planning on the player side requires that players are able to gauge the abilities of their characters. Only free form RPG works well this way. Hidden rules don't.