Sell me the Fighter.

[Tekrow]

So, as the title says, sell me the fighter. I've always felt like the fighter is mostly limited to combat(although they are pretty great at it), and doesn't have much in the way RP and social interactions, which is my favorite part.

[Foxhound438]

this is a pretty easy one for me: RP isn't a stat. I've played a lot of characters that have little to nothing in terms of RP centric abilities, and always have a blast with roleplaying. Fighter is excellent for the fact that you're not tied to any RP tropes - paladin kind of has to be religious or righteous or something like that, rangers kind of have to be nature warriors, barbarians have to get mad at everything, wizards have to be smart, but fighters can be pretty much whatever you want when the armor's off. Sure, you can subvert those other classes, but I feel that people trying to subvert their archetype tropes becomes a trope in itself (ie, "the dumb wizard" or "the calm barbarian").

[x3n0n]

So, as the title says, sell me the fighter. I've always felt like the fighter is mostly limited to combat(although they are pretty great at it), and doesn't have much in the way RP and social interactions, which is my favorite part.

If you like feats and play in tier 2, there's no better class for getting them.

Cavalier, Samurai, and post-Tasha's Battle Masters offer boosts to social skills.

They're blank canvases for your RP.

[Rfkannen]

What appeals to me about the rp side of fighters is actually the in combat side of fighters. Super eyepatch wolf had a video where he said dragonball was not a series about fighting, it was a series about people who fight. and I enjoy playing into that in dnd. I think there is a lot of interesting rp to be had about a fighter's drive to fight, their thoughts on violence, their training, their philosophy of combat. In a world where magic is available, where you can learn all sorts of different supernatural methods to aid yourself, what keeps you with a simple weapon and your own brawn, what drives you to fight.


Old school dnd has the fighter as the only class (other than halfling) which could rule a part of the world from level one, and I do enjoy playing into that. The fighter is a master of the mundane arts, including leadership. This works particularly well with a battlemaster focused on buffing maneuvers.


In a low magic setting it can also be very fun to play the straight man to your parties antics, the person who grounds the party to the magic level of the world.

[Tekrow]

What would you say are the most mechanically interesting fighters?

[Kane0]

The subclasses

[Bilbron]

So, as the title says, sell me the fighter. I've always felt like the fighter is mostly limited to combat(although they are pretty great at it), and doesn't have much in the way RP and social interactions, which is my favorite part.

I don't know jack about fighters, but I do know that anything halfway decent at producing damage is going to mess up a ton of enemies including casters by having Fighting Style: Blindsight, Alert, and an Eversmoking Bottle.

[Ir0ns0ul]

Take a look at this thread ( https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583957-An-Eclectic-Collection-of-Fun-and-Effective-Builds) made by master LudicSavant and find the build known as Wood Elf Magic Commando.

It’s a super flavorful Fighter Battlemaster with tons of utility and an amazing concept. I believe by the time this build was made Tasha’s didn’t exist, so you can even leverage new skill maneuvers and some new feats as well.

[Anonymouswizard]

The Fighter is good because it's a broad archetype with little in the way of fluff. It's bad because it's a broad archetype with little in the way of fluff.

The Fighter is a blank canvas, and if you leave it as a blank canvas it's not very interesting. But once you start adding some colour you get interesting things emerging.

The Fighter is the soldier or knight. But they're also the dwarven brewer searching for the perfect breed of hops, the women courtier riding the land to find new insults,, the gnomish warlord who's decided to turn over a new leaf and run for mayor of a small town, the lizardfolk artist who's searching for stone really shiny stones to finish their latest piece 'Dedication to the Wedding of the White Stag and the Deep Water'. Anything can fit into the Fighter.

Yes some of them could have been done with another class just as easily, but the advantage of the Fighter is that you don't have to build around any assumptions.

Also Slu'urk the Artist is totally a Samurai.

[Tanarii]

So, as the title says, sell me the fighter. I've always felt like the fighter is mostly limited to combat(although they are pretty great at it), and doesn't have much in the way RP and social interactions, which is my favorite part.Combat involves roleplaying. Often far more than social interaction. There are typically far more meaningful decisions to make.

If you want to be good at roleplaying in social interactions, put a 14 in Charisma, choose an appropriate skill for the kind of social interactions you want to be good at, choose a background with a feature that matches / enhances it, and then go to town with the making decisions for your character (aka roleplaying) during social interactions.

Any class can do this, but Fighters can typically spare the 14 score more than a lot of others.

[bendking]

The Fighter is all about single-target damage. This is a role that needs to be filled by someone, and it just so happens the Fighter is the best martial for the job.
Indeed, he doesn't have a lot of out-of-combat utility. However, his roleplay isn't limited in any way.

Interesting Fighters are not the same as mechanically strong. I find the Samurai and Battlemaster to not be highly interesting, but highly effective.
Psion Warrior, Rune Knight, and Echo Knight are all quite interesting, and while they are effective, are probably not as powerful as the above.
Eldritch Knight is both (somewhat) interesting and highly effective, so that might be your best shot.

Oh, and don't even try Arcane Archer, Champion, and Purple Dragon Knight.

[Segev]

I don’t know how well it fits “fighter,” but the echo Knight looks like it could be a lot of fun. More or less at will short range teleporting, an extra “you,” and extra attacks are all very nice.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

My Echo Knight is tons of fun to roleplay. After years as a slave in the Underdark his tortured and broken mind manifested an imaginary friend materially who helped him escape. His Echo has his own name and personality, often having a different opinion "Well I say we charge in, but Barry thinks we should try to lure some of them out here and use these crates for cover."

Also there isn't an explicit skill for logistics. So it's easy for the fighter to add that as an out of combat role especially with a stereotypical background with Soldier.

[Throne12]

Outside spells what rp abilities does other classes have that make them Superior. One feat and the fighter can have expertise. If they want more skills or tools they can train to get them or again a feat. They get the most asi.

Samurai: gets 1.Bonus Proficiency, 2.Elegant Courtier.

Arcane Archer: 1.Arcane Archer Lore.

Banneret: Royal Envoy

Battlemaster: 1.Student of War, 2.Maneuvers, 3.Know Your Enemy

Cavalier: 1.Bonus Proficiency

Champion: 1.Remarkable Athlete

Eldritch Knight: 1.you get spells.

Rune Knight: 1.each runes first ability.

So what else do you want.

Also when your RP your using your skill more often then a ability. Or are you looking for abilities like favorite terrain, Divine sense, countercharm,


People have a hard time RPing with fighters because of the same reason people have a hard time with sandbox games. There isn't anything telling them what to do. You as a player need to come up with things to do.

The party is looking for someone in a town. The wizard might cast a spell. The Druid might ask the animals to look or if they seen them. The fighter gos around and talk to people or used the skills or tools she is trained in.

[Ashrym]

So, as the title says, sell me the fighter.

$20 PM me how you would like to pay. :-P

5e fighters are my favorite of any edition. Straight forward, easy to apply a concept or style, and the 5e "megafeat" concept can give the bonus ASI's good value.

Out of combat abilities cone from races, backgrounds, (bonus) feats, and subclasses. Class is a big part of the character but it's not the whole picture.

As much as the champion gets panned crit fishing works in some builds, with some equipment, and in parties who buff the fighter instead of themselves in average damage calcs. More hoops / less reliability, however. Remarkable athlete can have perks but generally is minor, a second fighting style can be nice, and survivor is a great ability. Survivor is also far away. ;-)

If skill benefits are what you are looking for then Tasha's improved that with battle master maneuvers and rune knight. DEX battle master archers were already fun so this is gravy.

[Hael]

I would say the strongest fighter mechanically at the moment is probably the Echo knight. Its also the one that has the most flavor and utility. However you don't build it at all like any of the other fighters. It's not going to do Samurai or Battlemaster lvl dpr. It has much more battlefield control possibilities and getting the most out of it requires some tactical experience.

The Battlemaster, the Samurai and (I think) the Psi Fighter are going to be well rounded standard fare that can put up a lot of damage and be a solid melee combatants. The Eldritch Knight is more about pure tanking, and will be the best at that particular role.

The Rune Knight and the Cavalier fill slightly different niches but are still perfectly acceptable.

Don't play the arcane archer, champion or the Purple Knight. They're terrible.

[Xervous]

If you have a sufficiently accommodating GM and don’t care where your involvement in RP stems from fighter is as good as anything for RP. If you’re looking for mechanics and levers to pull, keep looking.

[Trafalgar]

One of my favorite characters in 5e is my Half Orc Eldritch Knight. He was raised by a Forest Gnome Illusionist and, as a fluff rule, I made him take a illusion spell whenever he was able. He was good in combat and had just enough utility spells to be fun outside combat.

Now, would I ever play a Champion? Probably not.

[Sception]

Fighters have relatively limited stat requirements built in. They want a good constitution, though ranged fighters can settle for merely above-average here. They want a good primary weapon stat - either strength or dexterity. Beyond that, they can do whatever, which means in point buy games you're free to put at least a decent score anywhere else you like. In terms of skill proficiencies, you definitely want either athletics or acrobatics depending on your weapon stat of choice, and you probably want perception because everybody wants perception, so that's your class skills gone, but any other skills - eg from race or background - can be chosen purely based on narrative and role playing interests rather than needing to meet particular expected utilities. You can be smart, or wise, or charismatic - though rarely multiple of those things on the same fighter - which lets you be actually good at whatever skills happen to come with your background, which allows for a lot of customization there, even if fighter itself doesn't add a lot beyond that.

Fighter lets you make nearly any kind of martial character concept you like, has a wide range of mechanically interesting subclasses (chief among them imo being echo knight & battle master, though I also like cavalier, eldritch knight, rune knight, and despite my disappointment with the 5e handling of psionics in general, the psionic warrior), and multiclasses well with just about any other class to add even more customized flavor as desired, whether you're dipping a little bit of something else into fighter or a little bit of fighter into something else.

Admittedly, fighter doesn't have the strong singular narrative archetype that you see in most other classes. 'My character is a fighter' doesn't say as much about what your character does, or how, or why, as 'my character is a paladin' or 'my character is a wizard' does. But that's by design. Fighter is much more of a 'build your own' class in terms of story and narrative but also in terms of mechanics and gameplay, since your stats are much more open, your subclass options have some dramatic variety in terms of flavor and abilities, and even in base class features one of your defining traits is extra ASIs which you can use for feats that offer a wild variety of different abilities, from specialized focus on particular weapon types to minor magical abilities to additional skill proficiencies or enhanced racial features.

Basically, fighter is a class for players who want to build their own character and define that character's place in the world themselves at a fine detail level, rather than have all of those choices bundled together into a singular class choice. Players who want to order their character a la carte, instead of just grabbing a package deal.

[Witty Username]

The fighter is probably the simplest class in the game, fighter is great if you want to tune out for combat allowing you more energy for RP and character, also it has the least narrative ties if you want to highlight background, race or have a backstory that doesn't mesh with the themes of other classes. If you want something more specific Eldritch Knight and Battle master are great for adding options without too much complexity. Also, even if you aren't the fighter, a reliable meat shield is helpful for party composition.

[Amechra]

Hilariously, Tasha's lets you make a skill-monkey Battlemaster who (initially) doesn't have any special subclass powers in combat. Just take Ambush, Commanding Presence, and Tactical Assessment as your starting maneuvers. Now you can add +1d8 to initiative checks, as well as to History, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Performance, Persuasion, and Stealth checks, up to four times per short rest. Grab Superior Technique if you want to actually have a maneuver that you can use in a fight, and enjoy being pretty great at being the party Rogue :p.

[Pex]

Have your Background help. Soldier is probably the easiest. Work with your DM to have your rank matter in the game world and roleplay being part of the military, going on missions and gaining Rank, Prestige, and Honor.

[loki_ragnarock]

The Fighter is actually a pretty versatile class, largely because of the number of ASI they gain and when they gain them.


Sure, you can take Great Weapon Master or PAM, but do you really need to be much better at fighting when the rest of the class supports it so well? Heck, even if you do, no worries! You've got enough ASIs to take one of those *and* Prodigy! Zounds!

Because of the number of ASIs available you aren't sitting there making Sophie's Choice every time one comes around. Every other class is faced with a decision of increasing their core competency (DC, to hit, key skill bonuses, etc) or something interesting that gives them something extra beyond their class (Alertness, Mobile, Skulker, Observant, etc).

And because their core class focuses so well on that core competency, it's almost unnecessary to grab those feats that make you better at combat. This leaves them almost uniquely capable of grabbing those feats that other people have to struggle with justifying.


When people say "The Fighter is only good in combat" it really does them a disservice. The *can* be only good at combat, but if so the player has made that choice. A fighter can be all sorts of other things, with greater freedom than other classes, because of the additional feats. An expandability that only increases as more feats are published.

You can play a fighter that's fastidious and has an animal companion. (Feat: Magic Initiate (Wizard),Prestidigitation, Find Familiar.)
You can play a fighter with expertise. (Feat: Prodigy, That-New-One-in-Tasha's-That's-a-Straight-Upgrade-to-Prodigy)
You can play a fighter with a wide away of skills. (The above, Skilled)
You can play a fighter with great exploration utility. (Observant, Dungeon Delver, Ritual Caster)
You can play a fighter who is a first class sneak. (Skulker, Wood Elf Magic)

You can also play a fighter that disregards all those potentials to double down on being a fighter. But that's a choice.

In a real sense, the Fighter can be these things where other classes would struggle to. Can a Paladin grab Skulker and Wood Elf Magic? Of course! Later. And more importantly, at the great cost of not increasing their core competency. Where a paladin grabs one at 4 and one at 8 and ignores their Charisma, Constitution, and Dex scores, the Fighter grabs them earlier (4 and 6th level) giving them more play time with their preferred stealthy style *and* boost their dex come level 8. Where the Paladin is effectively punished for straying from their core competency, the Fighter is enabled.
For a wizard, it's much the same; they could grab observant and dungeon delver... but at the cost of not increasing their DCs or spells prepared. Spell Slots with prepared spells is going to be more flexible, ultimately. Even spells known is going to be more flexible; that's just a byproduct of their being hundreds of published spells vs dozens of published feats and more slots than ASIs.

But it's entirely possible to make a Fighter that's good outside of combat. You just have to choose to do that. A choice you can make with confidence that others lack.

[KorvinStarmast]

Played a half orc Champion through 14, nearly made 15 before DM had to stop Dming due RL.

Fighting sword and board, dueling style, shield master at 4, 18 Str at 6. I later boosted dex and got medium armor master. Second fighting style Defensive since we'd gotten me + 1 half plate and +1 shield.

Worked out great, had a barrel of fun.

I don't need stats to RP.

My second favorite fighter was an orc Battle Master.
Pole arm master/spear/shield.
This was a more thinking man's build, but I enjoyed it immensely.
Sadly, campaign ended.

[Morty]

Hilariously, Tasha's lets you make a skill-monkey Battlemaster who (initially) doesn't have any special subclass powers in combat. Just take Ambush, Commanding Presence, and Tactical Assessment as your starting maneuvers. Now you can add +1d8 to initiative checks, as well as to History, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Performance, Persuasion, and Stealth checks, up to four times per short rest. Grab Superior Technique if you want to actually have a maneuver that you can use in a fight, and enjoy being pretty great at being the party Rogue :p.

It's feeling increasingly like the majority of "do something interesting without casting a spell" design space is being shoved into a single subclass of a single class. Since not even non-combat abilities beyond proficiency and expertise wound up there.

[TheMango55]

Rune Knight not only gives some powerful combat abilities but also some abilities to make you a crafty and deceptive character out of combat.

[Vogie]

One of the best parts of the fighter class is incredibly subtle - they get 2 extra ASIs than most other classes. Before we get into anything else, that's super important. What that means is you can build a character concept around Feats and Backgrounds rather than subclasses, if you want to. The fact that you're a fighter... could be your character's background, in essence, rather than their 'thing'.

You can do things like:

grab the Chef feat to go with your Entertainer background to be a pissed off Gordon Ramsey
Grab the poisoner feat alongside the Criminal background to be a mob enforcer, or alongside the Noble background to be the King's Poisoner.
Grab the Defensive Duelist feat to be a scrappy fencing master.
Use the Actor feat to enhance your Charlatan Background to be a con man or other swindler.


If you look at the above, any of those concepts could go with any of the fighter subclasses - sure, some fit better than others, but the character isn't defined by what the subclass chosen actually is. A fencing master could be a champion, a battlemaster, a samurai, or even a cavalier. If you want to act like the Witcher, for example, and you don't want to be a Eldritch Knight, you can just as easily use a spare ASI

You can mix and match concepts that other classes can't do because their ASIs are a precious commodity.

[Anonymouswizard]

Yeah, 7 ASIs (8 with Vuman or Custom Lineage) is great. Pick the two stats you care about the most, boosting them to 20 will only take you four or five of them leaving you with three to play around with. I'm fairly certain this is the intent behind their additional ASIs instead of 'moar combat power'.

Or, because Fighters only need Strength/Dexterity and good Constitution, you could try a half-feat only Fighter. Only pick half-feats to soak up flavour abilities while still getting an increase to a stat every other ASI. Could be a decent optimisation challenge, and will either land you with a decent concept or put you down as a Jack of Trades, Master of One.

[+5 Vorpal Bunny]

Here we have a nice Level 3 Fighter for 1,000 gold, guaranteed to protect you, kill your enemies, and carry all your random stuff without complaint, or your money back! Going once... going twice...

Ooooh, you meant sell you on playing a fighter! Carry on than :P

[blackjack50]

Well it SOUNDS to me like what you want is a high charisma fighter so that you can contribute to skill based roles in social interactions. But honestly? Unless you are making a lot of rolls that are extremely important? Then it doesn’t matter. Or do you want high wisdom so you can read people?

Idk. Don’t get locked in to the “numbers.”

[SociopathFriend]

People really seem to sleep on Fighters getting access to History, Insight, and Intimidation- not just Acrobatics, Athletics, and Survival.

Two of those are built on dealing with other people and the other is about as ripe for RP as they come.

[TeChameleon]

*shrug*

Currently playing a human champion (limited races at the start of the campaign, bleh...) and while I do find him a bit hard to RP at times- my DM is a bit too fond of attaching numbers to every RP attempt, which limits what I can actually do- he's still a valued member of the party simply because... well, because meatshield. 28 AC at level 8 is at least moderately decent, I think. Add in a Cloak of the Manta Ray for drown-proofing, and you're pretty much good to go.

If you're looking for a skillmonkey, yeah, as others have said, keep looking. But don't sell the ability to be da tankiest tank what ever tanked short, either. It can actually noticeably change the tone of the game when the rest of the party knows they have a reliable meatshield ready to take point.

[loki_ragnarock]

*shrug*

Currently playing a human champion (limited races at the start of the campaign, bleh...) and while I do find him a bit hard to RP at times- my DM is a bit too fond of attaching numbers to every RP attempt, which limits what I can actually do- he's still a valued member of the party simply because... well, because meatshield. 28 AC at level 8 is at least moderately decent, I think. Add in a Cloak of the Manta Ray for drown-proofing, and you're pretty much good to go.

If you're looking for a skillmonkey, yeah, as others have said, keep looking. But don't sell the ability to be da tankiest tank what ever tanked short, either. It can actually noticeably change the tone of the game when the rest of the party knows they have a reliable meatshield ready to take point.

I have questions about that AC. Mostly, how?

[Morty]

Having played a battlemaster fighter with a spear (reskinned rapier) and shield in a one-shot... it was alright. It wouldn't have been as fun if it hadn't been a combat-heavy one-shot. And the GM was liberal with short rests - if he hadn't been, I would've run out of maneuvers quickly and been reduced to poking things with basic attacks. The game also began and ended on level 4 - if it had gone to even level 5, casters would've got cool new toys and I'd have been stuck with the same maneuver list. I don't think battlemasters even get to pick new ones on level 5.

[Lokishade]

Fighters have access to all the weapons and all the armors and can use them with no penalty. They have few stats requirements, though you can choose to complexify if you so wish. Fighters are designed to be anything you want to be while cherry tapping the game with mundane means amidst all the chaos and magic. For an RPG, that's solid design.

But here's what I like best about Fighters. They are martials, and as such, they are everything casters cannot be, even with their magic: Unkillable. With heavy armor taken without one bit of penalty (I don't do stealth), you can wade around in a crowd of enemies like an idiot, just to rub your unkillableness in their faces. Ally downed? Nobody calls you an idiot anymore as you do that to save the Cleric. Sudden need to retreat? Just dash. Those five OAs will turn into five misses. Overdoing it? Dodge action and let your team plink at them from a distance because you've successfully drawn all the aggro. Also, being unlucky is not a problem, because you get the second highest hit die of the game. What would be suicide for casters is just another "I do that for a living" tale you tell in the tavern (which, I argue, makes you sexier than the frilly Bard).

But wait, there's more! We haven't touched the feats yet! Here's a non exhaustive list from the PHB alone, one of which can be yours right off the bat if you picked VHuman:
Polearm Master: OA anything that approaches you (don't forget to remind your DM), but you mostly take it for the extra bonus attack (uses a d4, but you max out STR at level 6, so you don't care). Limited to polearms, spears and even a plain long stick.
Sentinel: Pair with PAM for extra cheese. Use a reach weapon and the DM will hate you as you stop 5 foot reach enemies in their tracks... at 10 feet of you.
Crossbow expert: Extra attack, though limited to Hand Crossbow (again, you max out your primary stat at 6). Also, use ranged attacks like melee. And lastly, crossbows become machine guns.
Sharpshooter: Extra damage when hitting easy targets, quality of life for ranged attacks (you can snipe up to 600 feet with a clear view!), makes the Hand Crossbow a melee weapon as well as little more than a trown weapon.
Heavy Armor Master: You're so HAM you receive 3 less damage per hit (limited to mundane hits, but it still covers like 7/8th of the Monster Manual) Because getting attacked repeatedly is fun!
Great Weapon Master: Bonus damage when hitting easy targets (melee version). Bonus: Vestigial Cleave built in.
Shield Master: Add your shield AC to your Dex saves (against single target spells only, not much to brag about) and NEGATE FIREBALLS FOR FREE!!!*

Subclasses from the PHB:
Champion: You don't play a Fighter. You play DnD.
Battlemaster: You play DnD AND you play the Fighter.
Eldritch Knight: Not only you make the casters feel inadequate with your unkillability, you steal a page or two from their spellbook, all without sacrificing one bit of your martial prowess. Talk about rubbing it in!

So, yeah, Fighter. Give it a shot if you feel like it. You get quite a few options from the basics alone, so you bet you're not done exploring with all the supplements.

*Subjected to a Dex save. Unused Reaction required. A shield must be equipped at all times.

[Tanarii]

But here's what I like best about Fighters. They are martials, and as such, they are everything casters cannot be, even with their magic: Unkillable.I love martials that think they are unkillable. They're very likely to overextend themselves and get themselves killed. The players know they did it to themselves, and they know the all too often TPK that follows is on them too. :smallbiggrin:

Martials aren't as killable as squishies in T1 or T2 by any means. But when they think they're invulnerable and overdo it, it's just fun waiting to happen.

[TeChameleon]

I have questions about that AC. Mostly, how?

How? Lesse, quick breakdown...
* Full Plate +1 (19 AC)
* Shield +2 (+4)
* Armoured Fighting Style (+1)
* Ring of Protection (+1)
* Elven Chain +1 (+2, pretty sure this is a homebrew item)
* Aaaaand there's a miscellaneous +1 that I'm not sure where it comes from, and my notes aren't helping :smallconfused:

So maybe it should be 27 AC?

[Tanarii]

How? Lesse, quick breakdown...
* Full Plate +1 (19 AC)
* Shield +2 (+4)
* Armoured Fighting Style (+1)
* Ring of Protection (+1)
* Elven Chain +1 (+2, pretty sure this is a homebrew item)
* Aaaaand there's a miscellaneous +1 that I'm not sure where it comes from, and my notes aren't helping :smallconfused:

So maybe it should be 27 AC?
Thats three rare items, an armor with a small chance of appearing in Tier 3, a shield that's got a small chance of appearing in Tier 2, and a ring with a small chance of appearing in Tier 2. Then stacking a second armor (or homebrew).

Realistic expectation of base AC for level 8 HA character would be AC 22 with a Shield +1, maybe AC 23 with a lucky find of either a ring of protection or a Shield +2.

Realistic expectation isn't relevant for your character, it is what it is and more power to you. Not trying to diss your character. It's fantastic for you and your fun! But it matters for selling someone else on the class.

[Droppeddead]

this is a pretty easy one for me: RP isn't a stat. I've played a lot of characters that have little to nothing in terms of RP centric abilities, and always have a blast with roleplaying. Fighter is excellent for the fact that you're not tied to any RP tropes - paladin kind of has to be religious or righteous or something like that, rangers kind of have to be nature warriors, barbarians have to get mad at everything, wizards have to be smart, but fighters can be pretty much whatever you want when the armor's off. Sure, you can subvert those other classes, but I feel that people trying to subvert their archetype tropes becomes a trope in itself (ie, "the dumb wizard" or "the calm barbarian").

Well, the meta-game archetypes that we call classes doesn't really have anything to do with what you as a character is like as a person. A "class" is ajust a set of abstract rules defining what that character has the abilitiy to do. A "barbarian" could just as easily be the member of a holy order who has honed their skills in combat to the point that when they go into their "battle mode" they can use their willpower to shrug of wounds that would kill lesser warriors. A gloom stalker ranger could be nothing more than a rat catcher keeping the city sewers free from vermin, and so on.

That said, fighters are pretty much a blank sheet which makes them perfect for pretty much any kind of hero (or villain). From Achilles to Jamie Lannister, from Joan of Arc to Luke Skywalker, Rambo or even the Terminator, the argument that these are "fighters" can easily be made. It's the versatility of the fighter that makes it such a great class, just look at the many examples in this thread alone.

Besides that, what you shouldn't forget is the fact that fighters can, without any magic whatsoever, perform even the most fantastic feats. You know those four attacks you have at level 20? Those shouldn't just be played as "I attack" four times per turn but as the almost godlike feats that they are. You know how in movies they show of how good the hero (or, again, villain) is by letting them dispatch a bunch of enemies in short order? That's pretty much what extra attacks are. Not just being "a bit quicker than the ranger" but being just as impressive as any 9th level spell. What a wizard needs years of practice, a cleric needs the help of actual gods or a warlock to sell their soul, you can do just because you are just that fracking awesome!

[TeChameleon]

Thats three rare items, an armor with a small chance of appearing in Tier 3, a shield that's got a small chance of appearing in Tier 2, and a ring with a small chance of appearing in Tier 2. Then stacking a second armor (or homebrew).

Realistic expectation of base AC for level 8 HA character would be AC 22 with a Shield +1, maybe AC 23 with a lucky find of either a ring of protection or a Shield +2.

Realistic expectation isn't relevant for your character, it is what it is and more power to you. Not trying to diss your character. It's fantastic for you and your fun! But it matters for selling someone else on the class.

Aye, fair enough- I figured that some of that was just the DM being generous (or just not thinking his treasure drops through, heh). Although I thought the Elven Chain Shirt stacked with other armour, and that was the whole point of it?

[Wizard_Lizard]

One thing I like about fighter is that it does have very little presumptions as a base class. A barbarian is presumed to be angry (note all of these have exceptions) an artificer is a brainy gadget person, a cleric has a god, a Druid is a nature hippie, etc etc a fighter is just.. a person who fights well. The rest is completely up to you!

[Unoriginal]

Aye, fair enough- I figured that some of that was just the DM being generous (or just not thinking his treasure drops through, heh). Although I thought the Elven Chain Shirt stacked with other armour, and that was the whole point of it?

Armors don't stack, in general, and in specific the Elven Chain's whole point is to allow those who only have light armor proficiency to wear a medium armor.