Iron Man or Thor? Why not both?? Armorer/ Tempest Build

[CMCC]

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_medium/11129/111293013/6669960-1a-27%5B1%5D.jpg

Artificer Armorer 11/ Tempest Cleric 9

8/10/14/15/15/8

Half elf is great here with Tasha - so you can get 3 16s in con, int, wis. Vhuman is great for the feat if you’re cool with a 14 con.

What is the tempest cleric missing? Where are the weaknesses? A few key areas.

1. Lack of quality lightning spells apart from Call Lightning (which competes with Spirit Guardians)
2. Lack of consistent lightning weapon damage
3. Stickiness for tanking (apart from Spirit Guardians)
4. Access to Booming Blade
5. High quality battlefield control
6. Extra attack
7. Utility/defensive spells

Strangely enough, the armorer actually fills every single one of these gaps, relatively well or perfectly in some cases, BUT not necessarily all at the same time.

Let’s go through each:

Lack of lightning spells. The armorer provides this at all levels. Shocking grasp, lightning lure, and lightning bolt.

Lack of consistent lightning damage. Besides the cantrips above you can also choose to use the infiltrator armor and all your attacks will deal lightning damage. Paired with thunder bolt strike you can push people around the battlefield in 10 foot increments. Unfortunately this is only ranged and you lose out on booming blade/defender combo damage.

Stickiness for tanking. Give disadvantage to a struck enemy that attacks anyone else. Pair that with booming blade, so now they get dealt damage along with disadvantage for trying to go attack someone else.

Access to booming blade. You get this at lvl1 artificer. This spell works great with your guantlets, divine strike, and destructive wrath. This is a pseudo-smite. Eventually you’ll have 1d8 gauntlets + 1d8 divine strike + 3d8 booming blade. When you crit: use destructive wrath for guaranteed 80+mod. Twice per short rest.

Battlefield control. The tempest gets fog cloud and sleet storm which are solid, but adding web and hypnotic pattern (both spells that work in early and late tiers) really makes battlefield control a viable tactic.

Extra attack. Clerics get one attack. The options to get that 2nd attack without going too MAD: ranger, fighter, and now armorer (battle smith works too here but is lacking in other areas).

Utility/defensive spells. Mirror image, blur, absorb elements, levitate, fly,
Longstrider, feather fall, invisibility etc.

Cons:
Two primary spellcasting stats. Int is probably more important than wisdom simple because it serves more functions (spells and attacks) but wisdom is still very important with a 9 level cleric investment.

Redundancy with free spells: shatter and thunder wave.

MAD: well, kind of. It’s honestly no more mad than any non-shillelagh melee cleric. You’re just moving strength to intelligence and making intelligence do more work for you than strength did. And like a sorcadin you’re going to want to invest in those two main stats.


Thoughts? Errors? Anything i missed?

[Evaar]

Seems promising. What would be the level progression? It seems like it works after you have a few levels in both, but I’m not sure how you’d minimize “dead” levels.

[CMCC]

Seems promising. What would be the level progression? It seems like it works after you have a few levels in both, but I’m not sure how you’d minimize “dead” levels.

I’d probably end up going armorer 5 > tempest 9 > armorer 11.

Yeah you don’t get lightning bolt for forever, but honestly I’m more interested in shocking grasp and the infiltrator armor.

The build “turns on” at lvl 7 when you get destructive wrath, but really from 3 on I expect it to be functional.

Levels 1-2 are probably going to be tough. I suspect you’re basically going to buff and heal at that point, but once you get the subclass it’s basically game on.

[Silpharon]

Hey CMCC, thanks for sharing. Glad you are like minded in thinking the Armorer is awesome.

The build is good, and I'm sure you could have fun with it! I'm working on Armorer builds as well, here are some thoughts:

1) If you go Artificer 13, you can keep up concentration on elemental bane thunder for 2d6 on booming blade instead of the 1d8 from divine strike, and then use your bonus action to command your tiny servants or Homunculus to use your spell storing item with shatter. The bane damage is per turn, so each tiny servant (or the Homunculus) would get another 2d6. For the upcasted tiny servant combo (7th level), you'd have 9 servants each doing 3d8+2d6, which on average would be 184.5 damage in a single round (assuming the saves failed).

2) If you did drop to level 7 in cleric to pick up elemental bane, and you want to use infiltrator mode a lot, I'd recommend going down to 6 to pick up a level in fighter for archery fighting style. You'd still be a 13th level caster from multiclassing with level 7 spell slot for tiny servants.

3) For feats, I'd recommend Fey Touched for Misty Step and Hunter's Mark. Sharpshooter if you want to use Infiltrator mainly. Telekinetic could be fun with Booming Blade.

4) Keep an eye out for a Portable Hole for use with Glyph of Warding buffs (Haste). Also a Ring of Spell Storing would be perfect for a Homunculus Servant (Haste/E. Bane).

5) You listed fly as a spell worth taking, but I'd say use your level 9 feature at level 10 to get winged boots instead.

6) Craft an uncommon Amulet of the Devout once you reach level 10 in artificer. Or see if you can get a +3 version from a quest to help with your spiritual guardians.

[DarknessEternal]

Your booming blade is still going to need Str or Dex to hit.

This build topples under MAD.

[Silpharon]

Your booming blade is still going to need Str or Dex to hit.

This build topples under MAD.

No it doesn't, Armorer hits with int attack.

[CMCC]

Your booming blade is still going to need Str or Dex to hit.

This build topples under MAD.

Both armorer and battle master use int. Armorer has the qualification that you have to use your armor to attack with the int bonus.

[CMCC]

Hey CMCC, thanks for sharing. Glad you are like minded in thinking the Armorer is awesome.

The build is good, and I'm sure you could have fun with it! I'm working on Armorer builds as well, here are some thoughts:

1) If you go Artificer 13, you can keep up concentration on elemental bane thunder for 2d6 on booming blade instead of the 1d8 from divine strike, and then use your bonus action to command your tiny servants or Homunculus to use your spell storing item with shatter. The bane damage is per turn, so each tiny servant (or the Homunculus) would get another 2d6. For the upcasted tiny servant combo (7th level), you'd have 9 servants each doing 3d8+2d6, which on average would be 184.5 damage in a single round (assuming the saves failed).

2) If you did drop to level 7 in cleric to pick up elemental bane, and you want to use infiltrator mode a lot, I'd recommend going down to 6 to pick up a level in fighter for archery fighting style. You'd still be a 13th level caster from multiclassing with level 7 spell slot for tiny servants.

3) For feats, I'd recommend Fey Touched for Misty Step and Hunter's Mark. Sharpshooter if you want to use Infiltrator mainly. Telekinetic could be fun with Booming Blade.

4) Keep an eye out for a Portable Hole for use with Glyph of Warding buffs (Haste). Also a Ring of Spell Storing would be perfect for a Homunculus Servant (Haste/E. Bane).

5) You listed fly as a spell worth taking, but I'd say use your level 9 feature at level 10 to get winged boots instead.

6) Craft an uncommon Amulet of the Devout once you reach level 10 in artificer. Or see if you can get a +3 version from a quest to help with your spiritual guardians.

A lot of great ideas here.

A 13/7 split makes you a 14th level caster, while the 11/9 split makes you 15th and gets you that 8th level slot.

Is that worth Elemental Bane? Not sure. The combo is pretty cool.

[d20familiar]

Neat idea!
A question though: are we sure that weapons from Arcane Armor feature (gauntlets and lightning gem-thing) are valid with for the 1sp cost limitation of blade cantrips? Or is it RAF / ask-your-DM territory?

[Silpharon]

A lot of great ideas here.

A 13/7 split makes you a 14th level caster, while the 11/9 split makes you 15th and gets you that 8th level slot.

Is that worth Elemental Bane? Not sure. The combo is pretty cool.
Just depends on what you're wanting from 5th level cleric spells. Also, 13th level caster and 14th level caster are identical, so that's why I suggested dropping to level 6 cleric and grabbing a non-spellcasting class like fighter. You could also grab lvl 1 wizard for shield, cantrips, and other level 1 Int-based spells so that you can focus your Artificer spells on higher levels.


Neat idea!
A question though: are we sure that weapons from Arcane Armor feature (gauntlets and lightning gem-thing) are valid with for the 1sp cost limitation of blade cantrips? Or is it RAF / ask-your-DM territory?

I think the armor bring worth over 1sp should count, but good question.

[Silpharon]

One other thought - the "boots of the winding path" infusion should be nice for guardian mode:

1) Walk up to your foe
2) Booming blade
3) Boots of winding path

Now he's stuck there with disadvantage on attacks, doesn't want to move, and can't hit you with an opportunity attack if you need to move somewhere else.

[CMCC]

Neat idea!
A question though: are we sure that weapons from Arcane Armor feature (gauntlets and lightning gem-thing) are valid with for the 1sp cost limitation of blade cantrips? Or is it RAF / ask-your-DM territory?

I had the same question. But gauntlets clearly have value. You can buy gauntlets. They are part of armor which has a gp value. And these gauntlets count as weapons.

“Thunder Gauntlets. Each of the armor’s gauntlets counts as a simple melee weapon while you aren’t holding anything in it.”

So this should definitely be compatible with BB and GFB RAW and I believe RAI.


Just depends on what you're wanting from 5th level cleric spells. Also, 13th level caster and 14th level caster are identical, so that's why I suggested dropping to level 6 cleric and grabbing a non-spellcasting class like fighter. You could also grab lvl 1 wizard for shield, cantrips, and other level 1 Int-based spells so that you can focus your Artificer spells on higher levels.


Yeah I’d prob be more inclined to do the 13/6/1 split. You do lose out on some solid 4th level spells. But honestly 5th levels are quite a bit better for the tempest - specifically destructive wave which is pretty awesome.

Armorer spells are pretty awesome too at high levels (wall of force!), but IMO 6 in tempest is the absolute minimum this build should go.

But I think you’re making a good point that there are multiple break points that work for this build (again, similar to the sorcadin).

I’m kind of hoping this becomes an alt: sorcadin build for those who don’t like the ubiquity of the charisma caster multiclass builds.

[Silpharon]

Another option then:

Go 11/7/2 Armorer/Cleric/Divination Wizard
You'll have an 8th level slot and can do the fabled utter disintegration lightning bolt:
Have a natural 20 from Portent: Cast Witch Bolt level 8 for 16d12 maximized with Destructive Wrath. That's 192 lightning damage flat, no rolls. You only have a 5% chance per day of being able to do this, but at least then you know how to use your highest spell slot!

[CMCC]

Another option then:

Go 11/7/2 Armorer/Cleric/Divination Wizard
You'll have an 8th level slot and can do the fabled utter disintegration lightning bolt:
Have a natural 20 from Portent: Cast Witch Bolt level 8 for 16d12 maximized with Destructive Wrath. That's 192 lightning damage flat, no rolls. You only have a 5% chance per day of being able to do this, but at least then you know how to use your highest spell slot!

Oh yeah

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11138/111387967/7256508-gif%20%289%29.gif

[kore]

No it doesn't, Armorer hits with int attack.


Both armorer and battle master use int. Armorer has the qualification that you have to use your armor to attack with the int bonus.

Perhaps you can point me to where this was officially clarified, but from a strict reading (see Armor Model) the Armorer only uses INT for the special weapons built into each model (Guardian and Infiltrator). It is only the Battle Smith that gets INT to attacks with any magical weapon (see Battle Ready).

[Droppeddead]

I had the same question. But gauntlets clearly have value. You can buy gauntlets. They are part of armor which has a gp value. And these gauntlets count as weapons.

“Thunder Gauntlets. Each of the armor’s gauntlets counts as a simple melee weapon while you aren’t holding anything in it.”

So this should definitely be compatible with BB and GFB RAW and I believe RAI.

If you go SUPER-STRICT by RAW, there are no such item as "Thunder gauntlets" (or even regular gauntlets) on the list of buyable weapons which means that it doesn't count. If you take the more rational approach, they do. I'm all for being rational. :P

[Silpharon]

Perhaps you can point me to where this was officially clarified, but from a strict reading (see Armor Model) the Armorer only uses INT for the special weapons built into each model (Guardian and Infiltrator). It is only the Battle Smith that gets INT to attacks with any magical weapon (see Battle Ready).

Your reading is right, but why do you think we're talking about using anything other than the special Armorer weapons? That's all we're referring to here.