The Complete Arcane: Divination [PEACH]

[GalacticAxekick]

I want to play a wizard who only uses one school of magic.

Simple right? But unfortunately, impossible to play. Wizards learn 4 cantrips, about 8 1st-level spells, and about 4 spells of every other level. But no school of magic has this many spells.

To solve this problem, I'm writing a huge number of new spells. I'm also revising old spells to make weaker options more appealing, moving certain spells between schools, revising wizard subclasses to take advantage the spells I'm offering them, and writing new subclasses for the other spellcasters when I think they deserve access to my new spells.

First up, The School of Divination (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/n4tDBxJT6).

Let me know what you think!

[GalacticAxekick]

Is there a thread for this somewhere?Yup! Right here.


I'm glad hunch isn't as abusable for casters, but its still abusable for creatures using two weapon fighting or which have a natural weapon that isn't their hand.Huh! I see it the exact opposite way!

Hunch is VERY abuseable for casters. If a caster casts an all-or-nothing spell like Chromatic Orb, but misses, she can use Hunch to undo that action and cast a similar spell, like Catapult. The caster spends her reaction to gain pseudo-advantage on a powerful and expensive attack that she can't afford to miss. And as the caster gains higher level spells, the value of this pseudo-advantage grows and grows.

Conversely, Hunch is only barely useful for two-weapon fighters. If a warrior attacks with scimitar 1, but misses, he can use Hunch to undo that action and then attack with scimitar 2. The warrior spends his reaction to gain pseudo-advantage on one weak attack that he can probably do without anyway. And as the warrior gains Extra Attacks, the value of this pseudo-advantage shrinks and shrinks.


Similarly, there's probably some wording for Lucidity that doesn't require changing the school of existing spells.I have no idea what you're talking about. Lucidity doesn't require changing the school of any existing spells.


These awkward spells are especially annoying because some of the other spells are really cool (notably Cold Reading, Spook, Forensics, and Recall).I'm glad you like these!

[sandmote]

Huh! I see it the exact opposite way!

Hunch is VERY abuseable for casters. If a caster casts an all-or-nothing spell like Chromatic Orb, but misses, she can use Hunch to undo that action and cast a similar spell, like Catapult. The caster spends her reaction to gain pseudo-advantage on a powerful and expensive attack that she can't afford to miss. And as the caster gains higher level spells, the value of this pseudo-advantage grows and grows.

Conversely, Hunch is only barely useful for two-weapon fighters. If a warrior attacks with scimitar 1, but misses, he can use Hunch to undo that action and then attack with scimitar 2. The warrior spends his reaction to gain pseudo-advantage on one weak attack that he can probably do without anyway. And as the warrior gains Extra Attacks, the value of this pseudo-advantage shrinks and shrinks. Huh. By RAI, do you keep the spell slot that you spent before using Hunch? I no longer recall what I thought the spell did, but I think it had something to do with that. But for some reason I didn't realize it worked the same way with spells.


I have no idea what you're talking about. Lucidity doesn't require changing the school of any existing spells. I assumed you changed Message and Sending to be divination spells so they fit with Lucidity, since requesting aid I probably the most common thing you'd be using it for. Although that sort of thing should probably be a subclass feature or part of a feat, given it doesn't follow the rules for how a spell is cast or lasts.

Adding to the above, I think Premonition, Prophecy, and Detect Lies should probably be higher level. With premonition, anything that doesn't kill you you can avoid at the cost of a 1st level slot. Prophecy seems stronger than Augury (which is higher level). Detect Lies should really require a saving throw, but even if it didn't it also isn't restricted to a particular area and doesn't tell the target you'll know they lied (while Zone of Truth has all three of these restrictions).

Oh, and the spell description for Preparation should probably say "You compel your past self to prepare for an event you could not have foreseen otherwise," or something similar. If you "feel compelled" at the time you expend the spell slot, I don't think the spell would actually do anything.

[GalacticAxekick]

Huh. By RAI, do you keep the spell slot that you spent before using Hunch? I no longer recall what I thought the spell did, but I think it had something to do with that. But for some reason I didn't realize it worked the same way with spells.RAI, you absolutely keep the spell slot you spent before using Hunch. Hunch makes it as if you did not take the action at all, but merely saw what the outcome of the action would be.


I assumed you changed Message and Sending to be divination spells so they fit with Lucidity, since requesting aid I probably the most common thing you'd be using it for. I changed Message, Sending, and Telepathy to divination because they're all telepathy spells, and telepathy is obviously a form of divination. I have no idea why Message was ever a transmutation spell (what does it transform?) or why Sending and Telepathy were ever an evocation spells (what energy do they produce?).

The most common thing you'll do with Lucidity is stand watch while you take a long rest. But the spell is open-ended, which allows you to do many other things:
You can enhance your watch with spells like Tingle, Detect Thoughts, Forewarning, Preparation and Size Up
You can burn leftover spell slots scouting during a long rest. Spells like Prophecy, Locate Object, Recall, Clairvoyance, Arcane Eye, Locate Creature and Scrying are all useful in this context.
You can cast Premonition after being reduced to 0 hit points, meaning that you can take suicidal risks on your turn for scouting's sake. Jump down a pit to see what's at the bottom! Try every route through a minefield! "Dormammu, I've come to bargain!"
The same spells that allow you to call for help (Message, Sending, Telepathy and Rary's Telepathic Bond) allow you to offer advice! Use your various divination spells to gather knowledge, then share it telepathically even while you are out of the fight!



Although that sort of thing should probably be a subclass feature or part of a feat, given it doesn't follow the rules for how a spell is cast or lasts. Because the effect is completely passive, it better resembles a feat or feature than other spells. You're right!

But by making it a subclass feature, I constrain this effect to certain spellcasters (when I think any practitioner of divination should have access). And if I make it a feat, I lock it away from the 1st level characters I want to access it.

I don't see any reason why spells MUST be cast as actions, bonus actions, etc. I think cantrips offer an awesome framework to give spellcasters passive features similar to Eldritch Invocations, and that there should be more cantrips in this vein.


Adding to the above, I think Premonition, Prophecy, and Detect Lies should probably be higher level. With premonition, anything that doesn't kill you you can avoid at the cost of a 1st level slot. Prophecy seems stronger than Augury (which is higher level). Detect Lies should really require a saving throw, but even if it didn't it also isn't restricted to a particular area and doesn't tell the target you'll know they lied (while Zone of Truth has all three of these restrictions).Premonition can only be cast during your own turn. It will save you from opportunity attacks, traps, and your own stupidity, but it won't save you from other creatures' actions. I think this justifies the low level, since it's more a scouting tool than a survival tool.

Prophecy is stronger than Augury, but that doesnt mean Prophecy should be higher level. If anything, Augury should be demoted to cantrip, since its terribly weak and impossible to spam.

Detect Lies should be higher level. You're completely right.


Oh, and the spell description for Preparation should probably say "You compel your past self to prepare for an event you could not have foreseen otherwise," or something similar. If you "feel compelled" at the time you expend the spell slot, I don't think the spell would actually do anything.The spell already says "From a player's perspective, this spell lets you retroactively take one action at any moment during the last 24 hours. [...] From a character's perspective, on the other hand, this spell urged you to take an action long ago in anticipation of the present moment."

But if this is unclear, I can edit it the way you describe

[sandmote]

I changed Message, Sending, and Telepathy to divination because they're all telepathy spells, and telepathy is obviously a form of divination.

I have absolutely no idea why Message was ever a transmutation spell (what does it transform?) or why Sending and Telepathy were ever an evocation spells (what energy do they produce?). I actually consider Telepathic Bond the odd one out, as Sending and Telepathy "create" things in the recipient's minds (presumably the same energy that allows non-magical thoughts).

I think Message is meant to be transmuting the vibrating air as it leaves your mouth, which is why you have to whisper the message and why it is blocked by magical silence.


But by making it a subclass feature, I constrain this effect to certain spellcasters (when I think any practitioner of divination should have access). And if I make it a feat, I lock it away from the 1st level characters I want to access it.

I don't see any reason why spells MUST be cast as actions, bonus actions, etc. I think cantrips offer an awesome framework to give spellcasters passive features similar to Eldritch Invocations, and that there should be more cantrips in this vein. If the wonkiness is intentional I'll leave it.


Premonition can only be cast during your own turn. It will save you from opportunity attacks, traps, and your own stupidity, but it won't save you from other creatures' actions. I think this justifies the low level, since it's more a scouting tool than a survival tool.

Prophecy is stronger than Augury, but that doesnt mean Prophecy should be higher level. If anything, Augury should be demoted to cantrip, since its terribly weak and impossible to spam. I suppose these make sense, although if Augury were a cantrip I think it would see even less use than it currently does. Probably the only time it sees use is when a Wizard, Tomelock, or someone with Ritual Caster was provided the spell by the DM.


The spell already says "From a player's perspective, this spell lets you retroactively take one action at any moment during the last 24 hours. [...] From a character's perspective, on the other hand, this spell urged you to take an action long ago in anticipation of the present moment."

But if this is unclear, I can edit it the way you describe I was thinking of the sentence "You feel compelled to prepare for a unknown future event," which I feel is contradicted in the rest of the spell. On a second read through I can see why this was unclear to people who aren't inside my head.

[GalacticAxekick]

I actually consider Telepathic Bond the odd one out, as Sending and Telepathy "create" things in the recipient's minds (presumably the same energy that allows non-magical thoughts). So when I send my thoughts into someone else's mind, I am creating "thought energy" and therefore practicing evocation

But when I force draw someone else's thoughts into my mind (Detect Thoughts), I am no longer dealing with thought energy, but "revealing their thoughts", and therefore practicing divination.

This doesn't seem consistent to me. And because "thought energy" is so abstract and so different from the heat/electricity/light/noise/force that evocation usually deals with, while "revealing thoughts" is completely consistent with mind reading/knowledge acquiring that divination usually deals with, I can only see these spells as divinations.


I think Message is meant to be transmuting the vibrating air as it leaves your mouth, which is why you have to whisper the message and why it is blocked by magical silence. That's an excellent point! Message should not be divination.


I was thinking of the sentence "You feel compelled to prepare for a unknown future event," which I feel is contradicted in the rest of the spell. On a second read through I can see why this was unclear to people who aren't inside my head.I know the sentence you are referring to. I thought that sentence was clarified by the two sentences I quoted.

It does not mean "You (at the moment that the player casts this spell) feel compelled to prepare for an unknown future event."

It means "You (at the moment that the character experiences this spell, up to 8 hours ago) feel compelled to prepare for an unknown future event."

But if this isn't clear, I can adopt your phrasing.

[sandmote]

But when I force draw someone else's thoughts into my mind (Detect Thoughts), I am no longer dealing with thought energy, but "revealing their thoughts", and therefore practicing divination.

This doesn't seem consistent to me. And because "thought energy" is so abstract and so different from the heat/electricity/light/noise/force that evocation usually deals with, while "revealing thoughts" is completely consistent with mind reading/knowledge acquiring that divination usually deals with, I can only see these spells as divinations. It been long enough since I studied the subject that I don't recall the technical terms for how the cascade of metal ions sending a message down a neuron works, which is why I used "thought energy." But I think the process of inserting a thought into someone else and the process of sensing a though from someone else aren't similar and I don't expect them to belong to the same school of magic.

Which actually explains Telepathic Bond now that I think about it: everyone is just reading each other rather than actively sending thoughts.


I know the sentence you are referring to. I thought that sentence was clarified by the two sentences I quoted.

It means "You (at the moment that the character experiences this spell, up to 8 hours ago) feel compelled to prepare for an unknown future event." Temporally, "spell lets you," is in the present tense, but the spell isn't compelling the player. Whereas "this spell urged you" is in the past tense, because the effect on the PC was in the past tense. I agree the other two sentences clarify what the spell does, but I don't see how this sentence matches either case.

You should probably check with a third party, but to me the rest of the spell description seems to contradict the first sentence rather than clarify it. Which doesn't affect what I think the spell does once I've read through it, but did make it harder to read through it in the first place.

[GalacticAxekick]

It been long enough since I studied the subject that I don't recall the technical terms for how the cascade of metal ions sending a message down a neuron works, which is why I used "thought energy." But I think the process of inserting a thought into someone else and the process of sensing a though from someone else aren't similar and I don't expect them to belong to the same school of magic. They both move a thought from one mind to another. The only difference is whether or not it's the caster's mind.

And more importantly, they both reveal information without having any tangible effect. That is the defining trait of divination spells.

I fully expect radically different spells to belong to the same school (e.g. Comprehend Languages, See Invisibility and Contact Other Plane) provided they share the trait that defines the school.


You should probably check with a third party, but to me the rest of the spell description seems to contradict the first sentence rather than clarify it. Which doesn't affect what I think the spell does once I've read through it, but did make it harder to read through it in the first place.I'll adopt your phrasing. Simple as that.