Creative ways to use Twins/Triplets as bad guys?

[Oramac]

My game currently has a Dracolich as the BBEG, and there's a few lieutenants. A friend of mine suggested that maybe they could all be twins/triplets/whatever, which I really like, but I'm not sure how to best use it. Just looking for ideas here.

For reference, these are lower level NPCs, so they are not clones or simulacrums. They would be actual, real, siblings.

Thanks!

[PhantomSoul]

The one that comes to mind first is seemingly conflicting accounts of what people did when -- if they can't make duplicates in some way, then it might cause some confusion when a single person seems to be doing multiple things at the same time far away from each other. (That also then turns into a hint at the twin/triplet thing, but in the meantime your players might worry about time travel, powerful duplication or illusion magic, lying or mistaken witnesses, or something along those lines.)

[GooeyChewie]

I once had a co-worker who had brother at another branch. People would always ask if they were twins, and he would simply answer 'no.' It was the truth; they were two-thirds of a set of triplets. He wouldn't explain that part, though. If you really want to throw the party for a loop, do what PhantomSoul suggested, but find an excuse for the party to get to ask authoritatively (Zone of Truth, asking a diety, something along those lines) if they are twins.

[PhantomSoul]

I once had a co-worker who had brother at another branch. People would always ask if they were twins, and he would simply answer 'no.' It was the truth; they were two-thirds of a set of triplets. He wouldn't explain that part, though. If you really want to throw the party for a loop, do what PhantomSoul suggested, but find an excuse for the party to get to ask authoritatively (Zone of Truth, asking a diety, something along those lines) if they are twins.

Definitely agreed (it was also a common theme for the Quagmire triplets in A Series of Unfortunate Events, with not being "downgraded" to twins upon the death of a triplet also being a recurring point that you could play on)

[Unoriginal]

My game currently has a Dracolich as the BBEG, and there's a few lieutenants. A friend of mine suggested that maybe they could all be twins/triplets/whatever, which I really like, but I'm not sure how to best use it. Just looking for ideas here.

For reference, these are lower level NPCs, so they are not clones or simulacrums. They would be actual, real, siblings.

Thanks!

First thought I had was "have triplets be the warrior-thief-mage team type, and once they're killed the Dracolich brings them back as a Skullord."

[RogueJK]

Or have them all three be spellcasters, and when two or three of them are together, they have the ability to become greater than just the sum of their parts (like a Hag coven).

Something like Triplet cultists/witches/warlocks, who feed off each other when nearby.

The party may initially encounter them alone, and then later at a higher level when together. Or may find out ahead of time that they're more powerful together, so will need to come up with a plan to divide and conquer.

[Crucius]

There is a thing called the Dark Triad; it describes three distinctly evil personality types: Narcissism, Machiavellianism and Psychopathy.

I found these personality types immensely useful for three lieutenants in my current game, and I am enjoying fleshing out their distinct flavors of evil. Maybe it could also work for you?

[greenstone]

The triplets can manufacture the myth that they are immortal. If one takes a serious wound, another appears in their place seemingly instantly healed, while the injured one heals up in private.

[Aett_Thorn]

An alternative would be to have three Dopplegangers that copied the same person. They'd have the exact same memories...up until a certain point. So they'd all have the same memories of their childhood, for instance, but not know what the other had for breakfast.

[Oramac]

Some great ideas y'all!


The one that comes to mind first is seemingly conflicting accounts of what people did when -- if they can't make duplicates in some way, then it might cause some confusion when a single person seems to be doing multiple things at the same time far away from each other. (That also then turns into a hint at the twin/triplet thing, but in the meantime your players might worry about time travel, powerful duplication or illusion magic, lying or mistaken witnesses, or something along those lines.)

Great idea! I'll definitely do that.


I once had a co-worker who had brother at another branch. People would always ask if they were twins, and he would simply answer 'no.' It was the truth; they were two-thirds of a set of triplets. He wouldn't explain that part, though. If you really want to throw the party for a loop, do what PhantomSoul suggested, but find an excuse for the party to get to ask authoritatively (Zone of Truth, asking a diety, something along those lines) if they are twins.

Will also do this, though I don't recall if anyone in the party actually has Zone of Truth available (perhaps the cleric).


Definitely agreed (it was also a common theme for the Quagmire triplets in A Series of Unfortunate Events, with not being "downgraded" to twins upon the death of a triplet also being a recurring point that you could play on)

Definitely a thing. Since the BBEG is a dragon turning dracolich, he can tie the triplets life force to him. As long as he lives, they can't die. (He may have failed to mention that when he becomes a dracolich he is no longer "living", and they will die anyway)


First thought I had was "have triplets be the warrior-thief-mage team type, and once they're killed the Dracolich brings them back as a Skullord."

I haven't looked at Mordenkainen's much, but after reading the Skull Lord, I love it!! It's a bit higher CR than I was going for, but I may find a way to use it anyway.


Or have them all three be spellcasters, and when two or three of them are together, they have the ability to become greater than just the sum of their parts (like a Hag coven).

Something like Triplet cultists/witches/warlocks, who feed off each other when nearby.

The party may initially encounter them alone, and then later at a higher level when together. Or may find out ahead of time that they're more powerful together, so will need to come up with a plan to divide and conquer.

Good stuff too. I might even have them as part of the final fight with the BBEG. Though that's a long ways off at this point.


There is a thing called the Dark Triad; it describes three distinctly evil personality types: Narcissism, Machiavellianism and Psychopathy.

I found these personality types immensely useful for three lieutenants in my current game, and I am enjoying fleshing out their distinct flavors of evil. Maybe it could also work for you?

I absolutely LOVE this! Sadly, there's a couple younger kids in the game, and I'm trying to avoid the heavily dark tones this might cause.


The triplets can manufacture the myth that they are immortal. If one takes a serious wound, another appears in their place seemingly instantly healed, while the injured one heals up in private.

Yes! I think I'm already planning to use a variation of this.

[Amechra]

One of the twins/triplets/whatever isn't actually evil. Because why not have some cases of mistaken identity as well?

[Naanomi]

For combat tricks... make one a squishy caster, a sorcerer perhaps. Have them run via teleport as soon as death is on the table.

The next encounter is the ‘same’ guy; robes and familiar and everything... but is really a beefy frontline capable monk or Barbarian who is happy when people try to lockdown the caster

[Oramac]

Hey everyone, sorry to bring this thread back. I have a follow up to this and didn't want to start a new thread.

Anyway, my players just yesterday met the second of the triplets, and after speaking with him, they're convinced there's some other random bad guy using illusion magic to pretend to be the Baron. They rolled insight to see if this guy was lying, and of course he wasn't, because HE didn't raze the town they had been protecting. His brother did.

So my challenge is, I want to find a way to get them to see two of the triplets in the same place (or close enough together to rule out magical deception), but I'm at a loss for how to do it. One triplet is in the capital city some 900 kilometers away, one is in the current town, and the third is a runner that pretty much goes where needed. Obviously I'm going to use that runner for this, but I'm just not sure how. Any thoughts?

[Unoriginal]

Hey everyone, sorry to bring this thread back. I have a follow up to this and didn't want to start a new thread.

Anyway, my players just yesterday met the second of the triplets, and after speaking with him, they're convinced there's some other random bad guy using illusion magic to pretend to be the Baron. They rolled insight to see if this guy was lying, and of course he wasn't, because HE didn't raze the town they had been protecting. His brother did.

So my challenge is, I want to find a way to get them to see two of the triplets in the same place (or close enough together to rule out magical deception), but I'm at a loss for how to do it. One triplet is in the capital city some 900 kilometers away, one is in the current town, and the third is a runner that pretty much goes where needed. Obviously I'm going to use that runner for this, but I'm just not sure how. Any thoughts?

The one in town needs an item or message delivered to him, and the runner was the best for the job?

[Hand_of_Vecna]

For a extra bit of weirdness that sounds feasible, have four of them as identical twin double first cousins. Identical twin brothers married identical twin sisters and each couple had a set of twins conceived and born on the same day that are identical.

For a twist when two are working together they are more likely to be cousins than brothers.

[LordShade]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomax_and_Xamot

Perhaps you could have the triplets have very subtle visual differences. E.g., one parts his hair on the left, the other on the right, and the third down the middle, or something like that.

[Vogie]

Mechanically, you could look at the 3.P Teamwork feats to give them "abilities" that involve them fighting alongside each other. One that springs to mind is if they're within 5 ft of each other, any attacks have a mirror-image style chance to hit one of the "wrong" triplets.

[Segev]

Hey everyone, sorry to bring this thread back. I have a follow up to this and didn't want to start a new thread.

Anyway, my players just yesterday met the second of the triplets, and after speaking with him, they're convinced there's some other random bad guy using illusion magic to pretend to be the Baron. They rolled insight to see if this guy was lying, and of course he wasn't, because HE didn't raze the town they had been protecting. His brother did.

So my challenge is, I want to find a way to get them to see two of the triplets in the same place (or close enough together to rule out magical deception), but I'm at a loss for how to do it. One triplet is in the capital city some 900 kilometers away, one is in the current town, and the third is a runner that pretty much goes where needed. Obviously I'm going to use that runner for this, but I'm just not sure how. Any thoughts?

Do the triplets know or know of each other? Or are they estranged from birth? Are they all allied under the dracolich mentioned, and deliberately spreading confusion? Why do you want them to see two of them together?

Or, broadly, what is it you want to accomplish with the triplets that you need the players to learn there are identical siblings running around, rather than fomenting the confusion this is causing?

[Oramac]

Do the triplets know or know of each other? Or are they estranged from birth? Are they all allied under the dracolich mentioned, and deliberately spreading confusion? Why do you want them to see two of them together?

Or, broadly, what is it you want to accomplish with the triplets that you need the players to learn there are identical siblings running around, rather than fomenting the confusion this is causing?

This is actually something that an IRL friend brought up just a few minutes ago. Good call.

To answer the questions, yes, they know each other and all 3 are working for the (soon-to-be) Dracolich in return for power.

I originally wanted the party to see two of them together to help sow confusion and make them question their assumption that magic is the reason for the discrepancy (in their eyes). However, as you point out, there's not really any good reason to stop the players from maintaining/pursuing their incorrect assumption. Especially since nothing they try to "defeat" the magic will actually work. Plus, it will probably make the ultimate reveal of the triplets that much more effective.

[Segev]

This is actually something that an IRL friend brought up just a few minutes ago. Good call.

To answer the questions, yes, they know each other and all 3 are working for the (soon-to-be) Dracolich in return for power.

I originally wanted the party to see two of them together to help sow confusion and make them question their assumption that magic is the reason for the discrepancy (in their eyes). However, as you point out, there's not really any good reason to stop the players from maintaining/pursuing their incorrect assumption. Especially since nothing they try to "defeat" the magic will actually work. Plus, it will probably make the ultimate reveal of the triplets that much more effective.

That was more or less my thought. Showing two of them together will just "give away the game." And since you seem to be using the identical sibling thing as a means of creating mystery, giving away the game this early doesn't achieve much.

I would, in fact, have them encounter the triplets in far-apart places and have to question how they got there ahead of them. It seems likely the runner will become the one they encounter the most, and he should mostly be encountered "normally." But the other two being so separated and not traveling with them should cause some confusion.

If these are enemies, eventually it's likely the PCs will kill one. If they haven't figured it out, yet, having them encounter one of the others before that other hasn't heard of his brother's death will cause some confusion. Whether they love each other enough that, if the PCs say "we killed you," and the triplet figures out they mean they killed one of his brothers, this causes him to fly into a rage could either be telling or further confusing.

It sounds like the one they talked to this last time was deliberately confounding them by saying HE didn't burn down their village, but probably knew that his brother had. So it sounds like they play this up on purpose? Or am I wrong, there?

[Oramac]

That was more or less my thought. Showing two of them together will just "give away the game." And since you seem to be using the identical sibling thing as a means of creating mystery, giving away the game this early doesn't achieve much.

I would, in fact, have them encounter the triplets in far-apart places and have to question how they got there ahead of them. It seems likely the runner will become the one they encounter the most, and he should mostly be encountered "normally." But the other two being so separated and not traveling with them should cause some confusion.

Yea, I'm starting to lean in this direction. It makes more sense with the story, and likely will be more meaningful to the party in the long run


If these are enemies, eventually it's likely the PCs will kill one. If they haven't figured it out, yet, having them encounter one of the others before that other hasn't heard of his brother's death will cause some confusion. Whether they love each other enough that, if the PCs say "we killed you," and the triplet figures out they mean they killed one of his brothers, this causes him to fly into a rage could either be telling or further confusing.

So......They will fight and eventually "kill" one of the triplets. I put it in quotes b/c one of the mechanics I'm using is that the triplets cannot be killed separately. They must all be together, and killed within one round of each other. (I've already started laying hints in this direction)


It sounds like the one they talked to this last time was deliberately confounding them by saying HE didn't burn down their village, but probably knew that his brother had. So it sounds like they play this up on purpose? Or am I wrong, there?

Oh yes. The triplets definitely know what each other are doing and kinda ham it up for confusion. I suppose that's just one more reason to not have them appear with each other [until the opportune moment].

[Unoriginal]

Anyone else think it'd be fun if they had a fourth brother, except he's a decent guy who makes a living teaching combat arts or being a bard or something like that and who hasn't seen his brothers in years?

[HPisBS]

I originally wanted the party to see two of them together to help sow confusion and make them question their assumption that magic is the reason for the discrepancy (in their eyes). However, as you point out, there's not really any good reason to stop the players from maintaining/pursuing their incorrect assumption. Especially since nothing they try to "defeat" the magic will actually work. Plus, it will probably make the ultimate reveal of the triplets that much more effective.

I assume you've already settle on classes / abilities for each of them.

If you haven't already, I'd say to give each the same - or mostly the same - equipment. Since you're building up to a dracolich, something like a Night Caller to let each Animate Dead would be a good fit, for example. And since that's only uncommon, it's perfectly reasonable for all three to have one.

Spies' Murmer is another uncommon item, and this one could help them coordinate when they eventually come within 1 mile of each other. That could help the PCs stay confused... or give them a clue if they manage to recognize the item.

[RSP]

Obviously you should have an NPC that looks like Steven Seagal hint at what the secret to the bad guy’s power is....

Also, completely unrelated to that, you should watch 1990’s “Marked For Death.”

[Naanomi]

Once the PCs figure it out, at least partially, having minions disguise themselves as a triplet can add some confusion to the situation for the later game

[Oramac]

I assume you've already settle on classes / abilities for each of them.

I'm treating all 3 of them as Necromancers (https://www.5esrd.com/gamemastering/monsters-foes/npc/spellcasters/necromancer/). I've already sown those seeds, so I can't really turn back on that. I like the Spies Murmer, but I'm not sure how often they'll actually be that close to each other to use it. Can't hurt to have, though.

[Segev]

So......They will fight and eventually "kill" one of the triplets. I put it in quotes b/c one of the mechanics I'm using is that the triplets cannot be killed separately. They must all be together, and killed within one round of each other. (I've already started laying hints in this direction)Ah, in that case, fury would be inappropriate. Smirking and mockery might. Which of course only further sows confusion, as he seems to be claiming to be unkillable. ...which he kind-of is.

Also, frankly, this rule of the three needing to die "together" means them avoiding ever being in the same place is wise. Only two ever meet at once, and even that sparingly and with care.


Oh yes. The triplets definitely know what each other are doing and kinda ham it up for confusion. I suppose that's just one more reason to not have them appear with each other [until the opportune moment].

Definitely. In fact, I'd have it be a moderate to major victory that they see them together, based on it being something the triplets never intended to be possible.

[Aett_Thorn]

Could you give the party a quest outside of town, maybe given by the baron, and have the “runner” one come across the party on the road? He might have his cloak up or something so as not to be recognized, but invent some contrivance to have the party catch him with his cowl down for a second or two.

“Hey, that man in the back of the merchant wagon looks an awful lot like the Baron!”

[Oramac]

Sorry to delay. I went out of town for a long weekend and just came back to this.


Ah, in that case, fury would be inappropriate. Smirking and mockery might. Which of course only further sows confusion, as he seems to be claiming to be unkillable. ...which he kind-of is.

This I love! I will definitely be using this.


Also, frankly, this rule of the three needing to die "together" means them avoiding ever being in the same place is wise. Only two ever meet at once, and even that sparingly and with care.

So I already kinda worked around that. The triplets are (unknowingly) one of the components for the Dracolich transformation. They will all 3 need to be in the same place for that, and I have the idea that they'll be in the same place a time or two to "practice" the spell on a lesser dragon (which will of course die instead of the triplets).


Could you give the party a quest outside of town, maybe given by the baron, and have the “runner” one come across the party on the road? He might have his cloak up or something so as not to be recognized, but invent some contrivance to have the party catch him with his cowl down for a second or two.

“Hey, that man in the back of the merchant wagon looks an awful lot like the Baron!”

The party hasn't really traveled a lot recently, but I do like this idea. The real trick will be finding the right place to put it.

[Ettina]

An alternative would be to have three Dopplegangers that copied the same person. They'd have the exact same memories...up until a certain point. So they'd all have the same memories of their childhood, for instance, but not know what the other had for breakfast.

Reminds me of this one fanfiction I read that had Spiderman and a clone of his with shared memories pre-cloning as two main characters. Lots of neat character development involved in them becoming more distinct people over time.

[JoeJ]

Give them distinct personalities. Initially, this helps add to the confusion, and once the truth is finally revealed, it allows the PCs to try to turn one of them against the others.

[Arkhios]

One possibility that came to mind would be that while these siblings all share a purpose (that is, the grand scheme of the BBEG), all have different ideas of fulfilling that purpose. In effect, they are their own rivals and reside in different areas of the BBEG's Headquarters, scheming all on their own with different approaches, while still aiming to achieve same end result (whatever that is).

Actually, I think it might be kinda fun if this BBEG is the siblings' only surviving parent that they are yet to inherit, unable to challenge him or her alone, yet utterly unable to work together due to their own rivalries. :smallbiggrin:

[da newt]

I'd have them all dress the same but the feather in their hat is a different color. Then every time they see a brother, the feather is a new color (so there are 8+ different colors). This could lead the party to believe there are even more of them than 3, or just one with many hats. Then later on they can find a pile of hats in the badguy's room all with different colored feathers.