Fiends and mindflayets

[CrazyCarppy]

I have read the wiki on metamorphosis. It doesnt say anything about using fiends as a host. I'm planning on "upgrading" a recurring cambion npc im this fashion.
I have some ideas on how I want to do this, but I'm curious about how you guys would handle it. I'm not shooting for any particular CR with this, but i want it to be tough. 7 characters just reached 6th level. Id like this guy to be able to be a recurri g enemy until at least level 10.

Thoughts?

[Naanomi]

I have read the wiki on metamorphosis. It doesnt say anything about using fiends as a host. I'm planning on "upgrading" a recurring cambion npc im this fashion.
I have some ideas on how I want to do this, but I'm curious about how you guys would handle it. I'm not shooting for any particular CR with this, but i want it to be tough. 7 characters just reached 6th level. Id like this guy to be able to be a recurri g enemy until at least level 10.

Thoughts?
Traditionally, ceremorphosis only works on 'material' beings... so not pure fiends/celestials, nor aberrations or elementals. That being said, a cambion may be 'mortal' enough to work... I wouldn't have it completing the entire process, instead just give the fiend a host of psionic powers, levitation, maybe some fiendish intellect devourer spawn

[MaxWilson]

Traditionally, ceremorphosis only works on 'material' beings... so not pure fiends/celestials, nor aberrations or elementals. That being said, a cambion may be 'mortal' enough to work... I wouldn't have it completing the entire process, instead just give the fiend a host of psionic powers, levitation, maybe some fiendish intellect devourer spawn

Plus some juicy insanities.

[Naanomi]

Plus some juicy insanities.
I mean... I'm sure it isn't mentally healthy but... from a mortal perspective, Outsiders are already a bit incomprehensible

[JackPhoenix]

Doesn't work. Successful ceremorphosis requires humanoid host, preferably human. Various experiments led to a variety of mutant monsters when the larva was implanted into dragons, beholders or ropers, but all those are living creatures with actual biology. Fiends and other planar creatures are made out of planar material, and simply aren't compatible with the illithid larvae.

[Naanomi]

Doesn't work. Successful ceremorphosis requires humanoid host, preferably human. Various experiments led to a variety of mutant monsters when the larva was implanted into dragons, beholders or ropers, but all those are living creatures with actual biology. Fiends and other planar creatures are made out of planar material, and simply aren't compatible with the illithid larvae.
1) Cambion are half mortal, which which makes it not as unreasonable as a pure fiend would be
2) Mindwitness are made from Aberrations which (depending on edition) are distant demonspawn, Far Realm creatures, or living dreams from the realm of nightmares

[Sigreid]

If I wanted to do this as a DM, I'd do it. I would have the mindflayers have to have a way to get to Hell or the Abyss in order to have access to the actual body and not the representation of the body created by the summoning rituals.

[CrazyCarppy]

The mindflayers are actually on a layer of the abyss that was ripped out of the Abyss and held in the prime material by powerful and ancient divine beings.

[OldTrees1]

True illithids (mindflayers in monster manual) are only the result of the illithid tadpoles inserted into humans or near human humanoid species.

If the target is a bit abnormal then the outcome is also a bit abnormal. In 3E there was a Half Illithid template to see the weird outcomes when illithid tadpoles were inserted into lizardfolk or halflings.

If the target is very abnormal, then the outcome is unique enough to have its own name / statblock as a new subspecies. The Mindwitness mentioned earlier is an example of a beholder.

A cambion is somewhere between case 1 and case 2 unless their is some unknown reaction with demon heritage pushing it to case 3.


Oh, but consider this the death of the cambion. The victim does not survive the process of transformation.

[CrazyCarppy]

Ok. I have in game explanations for why this works.
Stat wise I am combining the cambion and the mindflayer stat blocks, with a couple of buffs.
Attributes will take the better of the two. Proficient in all saves except dex.
Immune to fire, has magic resistance and resists from the cambion stat block.
He will have an expanded innate spellcasting list that im working on.

His multiattack will give him 3 attacks, able to mix melee ranged and mindblast if its up.
The attacks will be beefed up cambion spear and fire ray attacks.
As a reaction to getting hit by a melee attack he can attack with his tentacles to try to grapple. Maybe restrain instead?
He will do psychic damage to grappled target as a mindflayer. But cant eat the brain.
Instead of multiattack he could try to charm a target as per cambion with the dc bumped by 1.

200hp. Ac 19. Move of 30 or fly 60.


Too much? Boring?
Thoughts?