D&D Subclass Contest Chat Thread 2: Joke Entries Win with Alarming Frequency

[MoleMage]

This is the chat and feedback thread for the D&D 5e Subclass Contests.

Current Contest: Contest XXXI: Something Borrowed III (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?647563-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XXXI-Something-Borrowed-III)
Current Voting Thread:

Another Useful Link: nickl_2000's Subclass Creation Guide and Analysis (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wGeddYfci8vzpvCe_v19mtVrKL2w_h9ieNTPEFN3kk4/edit)

Contest I: It's Technical (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?559109-D-amp-D-5e-Subclass-Contest-I-It-s-Technical&p=23081646#post23081646) won by Ivellius's Circle of Progress (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?561693-D-amp-D-5e-Subclass-Contest-I-Voting-Thread&p=23159734#post23159734)
Contest II: It Came From Beyond! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?562876-D-amp-D-5e-Subclass-Contest-II-It-Came-From-Beyond!&p=23194072#post23194072) won by Ninja_Prawn's Mirrorkin Sorcerous Origin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23198206&postcount=3)
Contest III: So You Don't Have To (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?566491-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-III-So-You-Don-t-Have-To&p=23296993#post23296993) won by Icecaster's Circle of the Conclave (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?569653-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-III-Voting-Thread&p=23383018#post23383018)
Contest IV: I Read This in a Book, Once (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?570463-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-IV-I-Read-This-in-a-Book-Once) won by nickl_2000's Pinball Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23409001&postcount=5)
Contest V: Five Stars (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?573883-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-V-Five-Stars) won by Evil the Cat's Circle of Stars (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23513433&postcount=8)
Contest VI: Bunch of Fives (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?578579-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-VI-Bunch-of-Fives&p=23637385#post23637385) won by nickl_2000's College of the Luchador (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23643058&postcount=4)
Contest VII: Well, That's Fortunate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?581983-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-VII-Well-That-s-Fortunate&p=23735713&viewfull=1#post23735713) won in a tie between Man_Over_Game's Fate Sorcery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23741966&postcount=5) and Oubliette's Way of the Chance Dancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23762897&postcount=11)
Contest VIII: Something Borrowed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?585284-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-VIII-Something-Borrowed&p=23831912&viewfull=1) won by Fnissalot's Relic Grifter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23837067&postcount=7)
Contest IX: Follow Me! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?589501-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-IX-Follow-Me!&p=23952381) won by BerzerkerUnit's Tacticon Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23997305&postcount=17)
Contest X: Calling Card (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?594568-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-X-Calling-Card&p=24070888#post24070888) won by RickAsWritten's Bladecloak Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24075571&postcount=8)
Contest XI: Points For Everybody! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?598203-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XI-Points-For-Everybody!) won by RickAsWritten's Irradiated Fighter (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24165894&postcount=12)
Contest XII: It's Mind! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?601566-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XII-It-s-Mind!&p=24231948#post24231948) won by RickAsWritten's Nilbog Patron (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24234446&postcount=5)
Contest XIII: Hold My Ale (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?604871-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XIII-Hold-My-Ale) won by nickl_2000's Tavern Wench Rogue (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24316028&postcount=8)
Contest XIV: Make a Choice (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?607867-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XIV-Make-a-Choice&p=24383141#post24383141) won by Damon_Tor's Vestige Patron (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24384550&postcount=5)
Contest XV: The Pen is Mightier than the Sword (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?611180-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XV-The-Pen-is-Mightier-than-the-Sword&p=24475701#post24475701) won by nickl_2000's Way of the Shrine Guardian (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24477571&postcount=7)
Contest XVI: It Came from Beyond II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?614138-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XVI-It-Came-From-Beyond-II&p=24563730#post24563730) won by nickl_2000's Madness Domain (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24565407&postcount=5)
Contest XVII: The Band (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?616513-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XVII-The-Band&p=24632281#post24632281) won by RickAsWritten's School of the Avantguardian (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24639399&postcount=9)
Contest XVIII: Five Stars II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?618628-Subclass-Contest-XVIII-Five-Stars) won by nickl_2000's Chef Fighter (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24703084&postcount=7)
Contest XIX: Something Borrowed II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?621608-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XIX-Something-Borrowed-II) won by Crim the Cold's Moonlighter Rogue (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24787904&postcount=5)
Context XX: Subsystems Online (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624341-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XX-Subsystems-Online) won by Damon_Tor's Way of the Stone Foot Monk (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24855717&postcount=3)
Contest XXI: I Read this in a Book Once II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?627103-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XXI-I-Read-this-in-a-Book-Once-II) won by nickl_2000 with the Battling Bowman (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24931789&postcount=4)
Contest XXII: Follow Me! II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?629351-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XXII-Follow-Me!-II) won by Damon_Tor with the Deathtouched Sorcerer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24988931&postcount=4)
Contest XXIII: Bunch of Fives II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?631681-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XXIII-Bunch-of-Fives-II) won by Edea with the Path of the Dragon Queen Barbarian (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25052364&postcount=10)
Contest XXIV: Bigger is Better (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?633669-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XXIV-Bigger-is-Better) won by mr_stibbons with the Thug (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25142347&postcount=14)
Contest XXV: Hold the Line (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?635691-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XXV-Hold-the-Line&p=25211978#post25211978) won by nickl_200 with the Ley Line Sorcerer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25175924&postcount=5).
Contest XXVI: Warriors of Old (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?637436-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XXVI-Warriors-of-Old) won by Ilerien with the College of Laments (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25229280&postcount=2)
Contest XXVII: So You Don't Have To (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?639596-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XXVII-So-You-Don-t-Have-To-II) won by BerzerkerUnit with the Way of the Zerth'Arai. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25288010&postcount=2)
Contest XXVIII: Well, That's Fortunate (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?642373-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XXVIII-Well-That-s-Fortunate-II) won by Ilerien with the Serendipity Domain (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25360274&postcount=3)
Contest XXX: I Read This in a Book Once III (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?646093-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XXX-I-Read-This-in-a-Book-Once-III) won by Oerlaf with the Portrait Patron (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=25469319&postcount=3)



Chat Thread 1: Contests I - XIX (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?559110-D-amp-D-5e-Subclass-Contest-Chat-Thread)
Chat Thread 2: Contests XIX - ??? (Current Thread)



Rankings are based on number of submissions first, then number of contests.
Up to date as of Contest XXVIII


Class
Total Number of Submissions
Number of Contests
Rank


Artificer
9
9
13th


Barbarian
35
21
2nd


Bard
26
19
5th


Cleric
17
14
10th


Druid
15
15
12th


Fighter
34
19
3rd


Monk
37
25
1st


Paladin
16
12
11th


Ranger
19
11
8th


Rogue
29
18
4th


Sorcerer
19
15
9th


Warlock
22
16
7th


Wizard
24
17
6th


Other/Homebrew
8
8
Unranked





Themes re-enter the pool after not being used for 9 contests (approximately one year).

Bigger is Better
Bunch of Fives
Calling Card
Five Stars
Follow Me!
From Zero to Hero
Help the Unpopular
Hold my Ale
Hold the Line
I Read this in a Book, Once
It Came From Beyond
It is Written
It's Mind!
It's Technical
Keep it Simple
Make a Choice
My Way is Different
Points for Everybody
Refine Mayhem
Scaling Strangely
So You Don't Have To
Something Borrowed
Subsystems Online
The Band
The Pen is Mightier than the Sword
Warriors of Old
Well, that's Fortunate
This Season On
Foods and Foodies
I'm Only Joking



The class must fit the theme of the contest.
Your class must be posted in the contest thread. If you wish, you can use external formatting, such as Google Docs or Homebrewery, though I recommend sharing it as a PDF to ensure that it works on most computers.
You may only create one subclass, which must follow the normal progression for the class it belongs to. Please specify what class it is for. You can use any base class published in official material (including the Unearthed Arcana posts), or any existing homebrew class (don't make a whole base class just for your submission). If you are going to use a homebrew base class, make sure you get permission from its original creator and post a link so we know where to find it! Failure to get permission will be grounds for disqualification.
Until the contest is finished, do not post your subclass anywhere else. If you are found to have done so, that subclass will be disqualified (though you will be allowed to post a new one if you wish, within reason).
Your subclass must be complete by the deadline. After that, I will put up a voting thread. Any submissions or edits after that point will be considered invalid. A two week extension is implemented if at least three requests are made in the chat thread.
Have fun, be respectful.

Tiebreakers, in order:

The entrant who voted during the voting period wins ties against the entrant who did not vote.
The entrant who claimed a greater number of 1st-place votes wins ties against the entrant who claimed fewer.
Any tie unresolved after these two rules stands, with both entrants winning.

[MoleMage]

At some point I'm going to hit the character limit in post 1, especially with all the formatting woes. So I'm reserving this post to edit some of it down a post just in case.

[nickl_2000]

Woo! We made it to #2 thread.

[Twelvetrees]

More review.

Panicked Attack
I can see Disengage working with a barbarian that relies quite a bit on skirmishing tactics, but the Hide action seems like it will be hard to take advantage of. You need to be in melee to use Reckless, so you'll likely be taking an opportunity attack (that the creature will have advantage on) if you move somewhere else to hide.

I'm No Warrior
While it doesn't force a character to choose Stealth as the skill, typical barbarian ability score allocations and Panicked Attack will certainly push Path of Panic barbarians in that direction. Acrobatics will also be an attractive choice.

It's some nice skill utility for a class that doesn't usually have much flexibility in that area, which I like.

OUCH!!!
This feels a little odd when compared to the cowardly theme you've got going for this subclass because you have to consciously choose to lean into the blow to utilize this ability. I see no issues with the balance of it and I can see the relationship with Uncanny Dodge, but it doesn't fit quite as well as the other features.

Coward’s Sense
Danger Sense works well with Dexterity saves because there is clear physical danger for those saves. It's harder to tell with other saves, which makes the effects of this ability slightly unclear. Does it work against poison? How about something like a Nagpa's Paralysis or a Jackalwere's Sleep Gaze? I'd have difficulty as a player or DM figuring out the right call for some effects.

Blind Panic
This fits well with the idea of someone who is panicking, but being blinded during it makes this a pain to use. You are reduced to normal attack rolls with Reckless and I'm not sure the bonus damage makes up for it. This also feels like a more convoluted way of giving the benefits of Great Weapon Master.

It's cool, but I think something that mechanically conveyed losing control of oneself might fit better. Losing the pun would be a loss, admittedly. Throwing some ideas out there: attacking adjacent creatures at random, moving in a random direction each turn, becoming frightened and causing contagious fright to nearby creatures.


I will mention that I forgot this subclass was supposed to be borrowing from another class partway through my review. I'm not sure whether to attribute that to seamless integration of rogue features or to advise that you make the inspiration more clear.

MoleMage, a heads up - the current contest thread still links to the old chat in its first post.

[MoleMage]

MoleMage, a heads up - the current contest thread still links to the old chat in its first post.

Fixed it. Thanks for the heads up.

[CountDVB]

Well, this is really nice how far we've come.

Also, tweaked a bit on some of the stuff.

[Old Harry MTX]

Mmm, but why don't just make a dedicated topic for each contest like we already do for the base class contests?

[Crim the Cold]

Replying to subscribe to new thread.

[Twelvetrees]

Continuing to review.

Trusted Steel
Wearing heavy armour means that Path of Steel barbarians won't rely as much on having high Dexterity as other barbarians because they won't be adding it to their AC. That's nice because it frees up some choice to choose which abilities to focus on. Being unable to use Fast Movement hurts, however.

Fighting Style
This almost feels like a non-feature. Barbarians want to rage. Incentivizing them not to do so feels counterproductive. Would you consider something similar to the Berserker's Frenzy feature and only allow them to use the chosen Fighting Style while raging a certain number of times per day?

Strong Flesh
Woo! Fast Movement is back, one level late.

This is strong, which is odd for a 6th level barbarian feature, but after the 3rd level features, that appears to be needed. A straightforward port of Second Wind. Enhancing a barbarian's tankiness through healing is a new avenue for a barbarian subclass and is absolutely one I'm a fan of.

Steel Will
One free reroll of a saving throw per turn. That's powerful, especially for a barbarian.

I'm not a fan of being punished for failing a saving throw again. Failing a save twice in a row and then being forced out of rage on top of whatever nasty effect you failed to save against is no fun. Especially when you can't rage again for a minute. Sure, you could succeed on the second save and keep your rage as well, but having extremely binary results based on the result of the rerolled save makes it hard to tell the balance of this feature.

Preventing a barbarian from doing their primary schtick does not make this feel fun.

The Riddle of Steel
Waiting 14 levels to be able to use Fighting Styles while raging hardly feels worth it, especially when it is so easy to multiclass one level into fighter.

Ditto for the equivalent of Action Surge once per long rest. A minor rider on top of it does not make up for being able to take a second level of fighter and have access to Action Surge once per short or long rest.

The Riddle of Steel feels lackluster in comparison to the other abilities that this subclass gives. I'm disappointed by that because the fluff of this subclass had led up to it being something cool. I think I was expecting something more along the lines of being able to attack three times with Extra Attack and to have access to Action Surge on top of that.

If I compare this with the Berseker's Retaliation for example, it's pretty clear what the better feature is.




I want to like this subclass, but I'm having difficulty doing so because of how it's features clash with enabling barbarians to rage and my issues with its capstone. :smallfrown:

[RickAsWritten]

More review.

Panicked Attack
I can see Disengage working with a barbarian that relies quite a bit on skirmishing tactics, but the Hide action seems like it will be hard to take advantage of. You need to be in melee to use Reckless, so you'll likely be taking an opportunity attack (that the creature will have advantage on) if you move somewhere else to hide.

Barbarians get speed boosts and care less about opportunity attacks than other classes because of Rage. In addition, reach weapons or Mobile completely negate that concern. Hide is there mostly for thematics, but it has niche use.

I'm No Warrior
While it doesn't force a character to choose Stealth as the skill, typical barbarian ability score allocations and Panicked Attack will certainly push Path of Panic barbarians in that direction. Acrobatics will also be an attractive choice.

It's some nice skill utility for a class that doesn't usually have much flexibility in that area, which I like.

Thanks. This idea started as a skill monkey Barbarian, but I pivoted to a cowardly one when couldn't come up with a good way to implement skill bonuses during Rage that were good enough to make you want to use it outside of combat.

OUCH!!!
This feels a little odd when compared to the cowardly theme you've got going for this subclass because you have to consciously choose to lean into the blow to utilize this ability. I see no issues with the balance of it and I can see the relationship with Uncanny Dodge, but it doesn't fit quite as well as the other features.

Yes it is slightly against-theme, but I didn't want to have every feature be focused on damage mitigation. Barbarians are naturally beefy, so this little trade off shouldn't be too punishing. As for theme, it is a common trope for the weak, cowardly character to overcome fear and do something heroic. Cowardly Lion - TV Tropes (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CowardlyLion)

Coward’s Sense
Danger Sense works well with Dexterity saves because there is clear physical danger for those saves. It's harder to tell with other saves, which makes the effects of this ability slightly unclear. Does it work against poison? How about something like a Nagpa's Paralysis or a Jackalwere's Sleep Gaze? I'd have difficulty as a player or DM figuring out the right call for some effects.

Eh, Danger Sense is an ability that requires adjudication from the get go. I've played with DM's that have said Fireball doesn't count because it appears out of nowhere at a point, and others that have said it applies to everything with a Dex save. I had been thinking about limiting this to Str and Con. Those should be mostly physical effects. I found a chart that has all of the saves for each spell and monster ability, and I think Str and Con should be fine.
As for poison, it depends. Is it a poison breath, yes. Is it a poison bite, probably no.

Blind Panic
This fits well with the idea of someone who is panicking, but being blinded during it makes this a pain to use. You are reduced to normal attack rolls with Reckless and I'm not sure the bonus damage makes up for it. This also feels like a more convoluted way of giving the benefits of Great Weapon Master.

It's cool, but I think something that mechanically conveyed losing control of oneself might fit better. Losing the pun would be a loss, admittedly. Throwing some ideas out there: attacking adjacent creatures at random, moving in a random direction each turn, becoming frightened and causing contagious fright to nearby creatures.

Yeah, I'm not in love with this ability yet. It's too finicky. You're blind, but you're not blind. I've been brainstorming a more elegant way to phrase it but haven't struck gold yet. I will consider your suggestions.

I will mention that I forgot this subclass was supposed to be borrowing from another class partway through my review. I'm not sure whether to attribute that to seamless integration of rogue features or to advise that you make the inspiration more clear.

I'm gonna go with the former lol. Kidding aside, thank you for the feedback. You've given me some good points to consider during my revision.


See italics

[Twelvetrees]

I don't know how you've managed to fit so many reviews in one day before, nickl_2000. It's seriously impressive. :smallsmile:

My current pace has me at only my second review of the day, but here's a review of your subclass.

Spellcasting
Cantrips
This text mentions that you know two cantrips and learn another at 10th level, while the table has you gaining another one at 7th level. Wait.

Does the 7th level feature grant one?

Ah.

See my first comment on Divine Guidance below. It's confusing to gain another cantrip partway through the progression. I understand it now, but I was confused after just looking at this feature and the table.

Spells Prepared of 1st-Level and Higher
This is a significant departure from other one-third casters. Spells prepared instead of spells known and no limitation besides using the cleric list instead of a fraction of the wizard list has alarm bells going off in my head. Ritual Casting and a holy symbol for Spellcasting Focus increases the volume.

Low level cleric spells can be incredibly potent, especially when combined with a class that naturally gets proficiency in Constitution saving throws. They also have good options for spells that can be cast as a bonus action, which fighters can make good use of. Healing word, sanctuary, shield of faith, and spiritual weapon are all bonus action spells that I'd be immediately looking at for this sort of character.

In addition, there are a few cleric spells that can lead to some nasty combinations when used in conjunction with Action Surge. Hold person springs to mind, as does silence + grappling on a spellcaster. These combinations can be pulled off with a couple of characters normally, but having both options exist for one character means there's no trouble with timing everything properly.


I'm of the opinion that there ought to be a limiting factor on spellcasting. It feels too strong right now.

Divine Weapon
Ha, I enjoy the minor effect that occurs if someone else attempts to hold the weapon. :smallbiggrin:

I have a distinct sense that this feature is sticking its tongue out at Weapon Bond and making fun of it. Am I missing something, or is this just Weapon Bond+?

Divine Guidance
Is this the level seven feature? It doesn't say.

This is another strong feature, which feels like a bit much after the spellcasting section. And it encourages guidance spam. I won't deny the mechanical benefits of spamming guidance, but I personally find it annoying. Is there another cantrip this could be switched out with, like spare the dying?

I can certainly still see cleric traits shining through in this feature.

Shared Healing
I'm a fan of this. No problems with the balance or flavor.

Divine Connection
The second part of the feature is a cool extra.

I've got no issues with the first part, it does a nice job of making it hard for enemies to escape the fighter. It did remind me that this subclass enables a fighter with spiritual guardians, which is terrifying.

Healing Boost
My first reaction was thinking this feature was strong, but I'm no longer so sure.. You've still only got 11 spells per day and an additional +1 attack and damage is not a lot either, even for someone with a lot of attacks. I like this capstone. It's got pieces of the Life Domain's Blessed Healer and Divine Strike mixed together.

Notes
I can't say I noticed this aura piece until you called it out here.

The rest of these comments make sense, but I'd still like to see spellcasting toned down in some fashion.

[Lvl45DM!]

Continuing to review.

Trusted Steel
Wearing heavy armour means that Path of Steel barbarians won't rely as much on having high Dexterity as other barbarians because they won't be adding it to their AC. That's nice because it frees up some choice to choose which abilities to focus on. Being unable to use Fast Movement hurts, however.

Fighting Style
This almost feels like a non-feature. Barbarians want to rage. Incentivizing them not to do so feels counterproductive. Would you consider something similar to the Berserker's Frenzy feature and only allow them to use the chosen Fighting Style while raging a certain number of times per day?

Strong Flesh
Woo! Fast Movement is back, one level late.

This is strong, which is odd for a 6th level barbarian feature, but after the 3rd level features, that appears to be needed. A straightforward port of Second Wind. Enhancing a barbarian's tankiness through healing is a new avenue for a barbarian subclass and is absolutely one I'm a fan of.

Steel Will
One free reroll of a saving throw per turn. That's powerful, especially for a barbarian.

I'm not a fan of being punished for failing a saving throw again. Failing a save twice in a row and then being forced out of rage on top of whatever nasty effect you failed to save against is no fun. Especially when you can't rage again for a minute. Sure, you could succeed on the second save and keep your rage as well, but having extremely binary results based on the result of the rerolled save makes it hard to tell the balance of this feature.

Preventing a barbarian from doing their primary schtick does not make this feel fun.

The Riddle of Steel
Waiting 14 levels to be able to use Fighting Styles while raging hardly feels worth it, especially when it is so easy to multiclass one level into fighter.

Ditto for the equivalent of Action Surge once per long rest. A minor rider on top of it does not make up for being able to take a second level of fighter and have access to Action Surge once per short or long rest.

The Riddle of Steel feels lackluster in comparison to the other abilities that this subclass gives. I'm disappointed by that because the fluff of this subclass had led up to it being something cool. I think I was expecting something more along the lines of being able to attack three times with Extra Attack and to have access to Action Surge on top of that.

If I compare this with the Berseker's Retaliation for example, it's pretty clear what the better feature is.




I want to like this subclass, but I'm having difficulty doing so because of how it's features clash with enabling barbarians to rage and my issues with its capstone. :smallfrown:

This is good feedback. I guess Im too focused on the subclass by itself rather than gelling with barbarian. And I feel like I gimped myself by mixing the theme of a multiclass with what i really wanted to do, which was just the Conan movie.

Ok So i changed it so that you get your fighting style in Rage but raging while wearing heavy armour gives you exhaustion. So you are better armed and armoured at all times, but raging is a little harder.

Ok I added a Con mod limit to the Indomitable knock-off. This solves the issue that the stupid level 20 feature gives. Rassle Frassle.

Ill take another run at the Riddle of Steel.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Maybe given the title of this thread I should still make the entry I was doubting about since day one...

Not sure I can find the time though. I'm not requesting an extension unless I have something solid in the bag.

[Twelvetrees]

Another review!

The introduction to this subclass is succinct and funny.

Moon Shape
The third bullet point might be better worded if it was something along the lines of "you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to use Moon Shape."

I'm already imagining delightfully fun shenanigans with this feature. It's inventive. I'm having trouble figuring out the balance of it because it mostly enhances utility, but it seems fine at face value.

Beasts' Cant
This is delightful.

Moon Shape Expertise
Interesting. Your moon shape can now afford to take a hit.

I'm hesitant about this, but I think between the ability to automatically cause an attack to miss and the ability to hide in an opponents space, Moon Shape Expertise might be a little strong. Compared to other rogue subclass abilities at the same level, it offers a bit too much. My suggestion would be to cut one of the last two bullet points.

Multi-Morph
More utility, more awesomeness, more inability on my part to figure out the balance of a feature. Nothing jumps out about it to me as broken, so I think it's fine.

Moon Swarm
Well that's fun.

The boost to survivability in combination with the bonus hit points from Moon Shape Expertise makes me think this might be a bit too strong. It's right on the edge of balanced <-> too strong.

Bonus Content
Okay, that's just icing on the cake. :smallsmile:


And avoiding the double-post by editing another review into this post.

I appreciate the time you took to craft the introduction to this subclass. I'm interested to see how well the features convey what you describe.

Soulbook
I'm reminded of the wizard in more ways that one. Spellbook? Check. Overpowered feature? Also check.

This feature more than doubles the number of spells a sorcerer has access to in a given day. Oh, and gives access to a better spell list.

Between the spells normally known by sorcerers and the bonus spells this feature allows you to prepare, you have access to more spells in a given day than a wizard. This needs to be toned down.

Ultimate Savant
Wait, you get expertise in Arcana and Investigation on top of everything else you already got at 1st level? I think this could easily be switched to just Arcana.

I do like the ability to use a sorcerer spell as a ritual.

Magus's Recovery
What. I was all prepared to move on to the 6th level feature. But this is also gained at 1st level! Hmm. Can one of these features just be cut? There's too much going on right now.

Ultimate Lucubration
Automatic Subtle Spell on over half the spells you have access to in a given day. Also strong. This could be limited to a certain number of times per day or once between rests. I think that would make it more reasonable.

Magus's Intuition
This is one 6th level feature too many, in my opinion. Especially with how strong Ultimate Lucubration is in its current state. I'd advise choosing between one of these features for the 6th level feature.

Ultimate Metamage
Heightened and Twinned are the only metamagic effects that don't have their costs reduced to 0 with this feature. I don't even know what to suggest here.

No? Please don't?

Mantle of the Archmagus
Am I missing something or is this just Spell Mastery, but better?



I really like the Ultimate Magus as a concept. With some toning back, I think this could work quite well.

[MoleMage]

Mmm, but why don't just make a dedicated topic for each contest like we already do for the base class contests?

I modeled this one off the old 3.5 contests, which had continuous chat threads. I guess I could swap it to the other format (which was used by Requilac when he first started the 5e Base Class Contests or at least the current iteration, and which I kept by request of most of the other users over there).

I kinda like the continuous format, personally. Discussions carry over from one contest to the next sometimes, and people only have to subscribe to it once. But if there seems to be general consensus for per-contest I can flip it for the next one.

[Twelvetrees]

This was a long one.

From the introduction, I'm expecting abilities that allow a Way of the Chameleon monk to imitate others and to disguise themselves.

Bonus Proficiency
Being able to get any proficiency if you already have Deception is rather good, but it fits with the idea of this subclass.

Aptitude Focus
Why at any time during a long rest? Most long rest associated abilties happen at the end of one - what led to this design decision?

This feature disabling Ki, half of Deflect Missiles, Stunning Strike, half of Diamond Soul, and Empty Body leads me to think these aptitudes are going to be strong. In addition, I'm wondering if you'll really still feel like a monk while focusing on one of these aptitudes.

This line

When you activate a specific focus, choose one skill.
would be better phrased as "When you activate a specific focus, choose one associated skill."

I really like everything you've included to account for multiclassing and magic item use. That's helpful to have.

Floating Talent
Getting an equal number of feats as a fighter can have and being able to switch one/two out on a long rest gives you an awful lot of versatility.

The way feats are worded also has some odd interactions with this feature. Tough, for example, increases your hit point maximum when you gain it. A RAW reading would seem to indicate that each time you selected Tough, your hit point maximum would continue to increase. I doubt this was your intention. I think it would help to have a line somehere in here about losing whatever benefits you gained from feats when you switch them out.

Double Aptitude
This feels like it has the potential to be extremely strong, but I haven't gotten to the Foci yet.

Rapid Refocus
More versatility, but doesn't appear unbalanced.

Foci


Common Features
Martial Synergy is better than a Kensai's Kensai Weapons feature. Making a note of that.

Armor proficiency conflicts with Unarmored Movement, as a note.

Amok Focus
Adding your martial arts die to damage rolls is better than the barbarian's bonus damage from Rage.

You likely won't be able to make Strength-based attacks that well, but if you built a character with that in mind, I feel like you could make a better barbarian using this chassis than if you made an actual barbarian.

Arcane Focus
I'm guessing this will play like a different flavor of Eldritch Knight, but with access to more spells. My first instinct was that it wasn't very good, but I suspect there are some tricks that could be pulled with this.

Divine Focus
Reminds me of the paladin.

Eldritch Focus
Mystic Arcanum
This pushes the bounds of what a non-spellcasting class can do. In addition, you have enough ki points at this level to spam these spells. If you get a couple of short rests in a day, you could cast more 7th level spells than a full caster. I'd take a hard look at this and see if it is really needed.

Handicraft Focus
Spellcasting
It worries me that you can cast the same level of spells as a normal artificer.

Heritage Focus
Similar feeling to Arcane Focus.




Nothing sticks out to me about the rest of these. They allow you to use other class's features. What I'm interested in now is seeing what Double Aptitude allows.

I spent a half hour on this and didn't come up with anything particularily broken. That's a good sign. :smallsmile:


Adding another review.

Spellcasting
Spells Known
Make it clear that you must choose the other school that you will get to choose spells from when you enter this subclass. When I read this the first time, I was under the impression that you could choose additional spells from whatever school you wanted each time you got to choose spells.

Spellcasting Ability
Needing to use Intelligence hurts. Monks are already MAD and want good Dexterity, Wisdom, and Constitution. Needing good Intelligence as well only makes it worse. This will certainly push characters using this subclass to take spells that don't rely on Intelligence in any way.

Punchimancy
This is distinctly more powerful than an Eldritch Knight's War Magic. Especially once you get Stunning Strike, it means you can cast a spell and then still likely stun a foe or two.

Maybe you could allow a Punchimancer to make one unarmed strike for no ki points instead? Or switch the level at which you get access to this feature?

Deflect Magic
I would attach a ki point cost to this feature. It allows you to make your best saving throw and re-target a spell. When it comes up, that's quite good.

Ki Magic
Wow, this allows shield or invisibility to be cast quite a number of times. In combination with Patient Defense, you become nearly untouchable. But other than those two spells, this feature appear to be reasonable.

Arcane Flurry
Bonus damage is something the monk lacks, so I'm a fan of this ability.



Overall, I think my advice would be to use another school other than abjuration. Patient Defense and shield pair a little too well together.

[Ilerien]

This was a long one.Thank you for the feedback! :)


Bonus Proficiency
Being able to get any proficiency if you already have Deception is rather good, but it fits with the idea of this subclass.I have a feeling that including the clause "choose any other skill/tool if you have it already" for bonus proficiencies is sort of lowest common denominator for not letting a character lose one "proficiency slot". After all, if you have identical proficiency already, likely you've got it from a background, and with background rules as flexible as they are you could have chosen some other proficiency without any fuss.


Aptitude Focus
Why at any time during a long rest? Most long rest associated abilties happen at the end of one - what led to this design decision?

As I explained in response to nickl_2000's review, it's an attempt to formalize "first you lose anything gained from your previous active focus, then you gain effects of your new active focus". Will make a fix shortly.

Floating Talent
Getting an equal number of feats as a fighter can have and being able to switch one/two out on a long rest gives you an awful lot of versatility.

The way feats are worded also has some odd interactions with this feature. Tough, for example, increases your hit point maximum when you gain it. A RAW reading would seem to indicate that each time you selected Tough, your hit point maximum would continue to increase. I doubt this was your intention. I think it would help to have a line somehere in here about losing whatever benefits you gained from feats when you switch them out.This whole subclass is about versatility. :) You're correct, should specify losing any benefits of a switched out feat explicitly.


Double Aptitude
This feels like it has the potential to be extremely strong, but I haven't gotten to the Foci yet.It is. A bit limited by the same ki pool, and I tried to assign ki cost to most activated features even when a feature in question is unlimited for the parent class.


Martial Synergy is better than a Kensai's Kensai Weapons feature. Making a note of that.It is, and that's sort of intentional. One should be able to wield a greatsword efficiently if one has to pose as a greatsword-based fighter, which Kensei doesn't have to.


Armor proficiency conflicts with Unarmored Movement, as a note.It's kind a problem indeed, and one I don't have an elegant solution for, so just decided to leave it as is.


Amok Focus
Adding your martial arts die to damage rolls is better than the barbarian's bonus damage from Rage.

You likely won't be able to make Strength-based attacks that well, but if you built a character with that in mind, I feel like you could make a better barbarian using this chassis than if you made an actual barbarian.To invest highly into Strength is to cripple Dexterity or Wisdom, as is pointed out in the design notes. Besides, it's one less variable to keep track of, and an actual barbarian would have a subclass to boot. :)

Eldritch Focus
Mystic Arcanum
This pushes the bounds of what a non-spellcasting class can do. In addition, you have enough ki points at this level to spam these spells. If you get a couple of short rests in a day, you could cast more 7th level spells than a full caster. I'd take a hard look at this and see if it is really needed.This is a good point, actually. I'll stick with a 6th level spell and increase the ki point cost to cast it.

Handicraft Focus
Spellcasting
It worries me that you can cast the same level of spells as a normal artificer.I didn't want to make separate spell slot level progression because the subclass description is already extremely cumbersome, and artificer spell list is limited and doesn't contain any spells unique to the class. Though it might be indeed an issue like maybe with rangers and paladins.

Upd: implemented some tweaks based on your feedback. :smallsmile:

[Twelvetrees]

Upd: implemented some tweaks based on your feedback. :smallsmile:

Glad to see them! I'll let you know if I stumble across any weird exploits that the Chameleon can accomplish while reviewing the rest of the entries.

Here's the next review.

Acknowledging that wizards used to have access to metamagic in the introduction makes for a wonderful meta joke about changes across editions of the game.

Metamagic Savant
This feature makes it relatively easy to reduce the cost of any spell you want to copy, but gold and spell access is so dependent on campaign that I don't think it really matters.

Metamagician
Calculating this out:
2nd-4th level: 2 points
5th level: 4 points
6th level: 6 points
7th level: 9 points
8th level: 12 points
9th level: 16 points
10th level: 20 points
11th level: 25 points
12th level: 30 points
13th level: 36 points
14th level: 42 points
15th level: 49 poinits
16th level: 56 points
17th level: 64 points
18th-19th level: 72 points
20th level: 80 points

Metacrush and Metasight break 5e's bounded accuracy in half. Metacrush stands out more because you could make a spell have a saving throw DC so high it was impossible to make and you'd be able to do so multiple times per day.

Metacelerity does the equivalent of giving you access to Action Surge and the cost is low enough that you can afford to spam it. Taking away the limitation of only one leveled spell a turn leads to too much power.

Metamorph allows you to get around resistances with ease for a really cheap cost. This would stand out as being too good if it wasn't surrounded by abilities that are even stronger.

Metasplice and its granted ability to have two Concentration spells going for one round breaks a fundamental expectation of the game. Personal opinion, but I don't think Concentration expectations should be messed with.

Specialty
Where is the information on your specialty school located?



Metadupe strikes me as being better than Twin Spell, which makes me think it is too powerful.

Metatransfer: Can you target enemies with this? If so, how would that work?

Metatrespass: Feign Death becomes the equivalent of a Save-or-Die spell with this option. Dimension Door allows you to teleport an enemy 500 feet straight up. Those were two examples off the top of my head. This is likely too strong. And what sort of save do foes make?

Metaconversion: When you switch a spell to have a save, what save would it be? Do you just get a free choice?

Empowered Metabias is better than the School of Evocation's 2nd level ability.

Empowered Metacrush was already absurdly powerful. This makes it more so.

Ditto for Empowered Metasight.

Empowered Metamagnitude eventually allows for things like Tensor's transformation to be cast on your entire party. That's on the low power end of exploits this option would allow.

Empowered Metamorph: The Cold effect is extremely debilitating. Also, sonic damage doesn't exist. I think you want Thunder damage.

Empowered Metasplice: I really would advise against this.

Signature Style
This gives you access to more metamagic options than a sorcerer. That's a little much.

Expert Spellcraft
I don't even know where to begin with this one.




You appear to have taken the sorcerer's metamagic options and made them better and cost less and given them to the wizard. At a minimum, I would suggest sticking with the sorcerer's normal metamagic options.


Two more.

A Bandage and a Prayer
This is quite comparable to the Thief's Fast Hands and is in line with the capabilities you describe in the introduction to this subclass. I appreciate how those tie together.

Retribution Strike
This continues to build off your introduction. I'm seeing no issues with it. Extra damage is nice.

Tend Wounds
At the level you gain this feature, you can heal more than a paladin's Lay on Hands if you get one short rest. And that's only if one specific creature needs healing. If you've got enough healer's kits, you can restore 25 hit points per creature per rest. That's a lot of healing. This ability doesn't improve, but its baseline is good enough that it remains powerful.

This feature reminds me of the second bullet point of the Healer feat.

Could you perhaps replace this with a less powerful version of Lay on Hands? Maybe a version of Lay on Hands that requires uses from a healer's kit or something like that?

Bring Out Courage
This stacks with the paladin's Aura of Protection, which potentially makes it too good. It works fine if you don't have to worry about that. Maybe you could add a line about it not stacking?

Silence the Wicked
This is comparable to an Inquisitive's Eye For Weakness and is actually likely to be weaker because of the specificity of the prerequisites that need to be met. Again, more damage is nice.



This could use a few tweaks for balance, but it's got a solid base. I will note that there's not particularly anything jumping out to me as something that would make me excited to play a Blade of Justice. Could be personal taste, so I'd be interested in seeing others' opinions.


Tool proficiency and Woodcarver casting
Nothing sticks out to me here.

Nature's Blessing
What sort of action does it take to command the animal figure?

Anything with a fly speed is going to be a strong choice.

Druidic knowledge
Shillelagh allows you to do a bit more damage in melee, but on its own I'm not foreseeing any issues.

Wooden quickness
This is comparable to the Battle Smith's Extra Attack. No problems that I can see.

Wooden Armor
Having a maximum AC of 19 if using this feature and a shield will not change much. And wearing wooden armor is cool, so that's a fun bonus!

Root Down
This feels underpowered in the middle of combat, especially because you don't have a way of breaking out of it once you start it. Out of combat, it's free healing to full hit points, which is too strong. I think setting a number of uses on this ability, perhaps changing how much healing you get to correspond with an ability score, and making it so you can end the ability would help.

Mighty Oak
I'm reminded more of the barbarian than the druid with this feature. I don't think this is strong enough, especially because artificers aren't likely to be relying too much on either ability. I'd look over the druid and see if there is another feature you could use.

[Damon_Tor]

The barbarian Path of Possession (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24821747&postcount=17) is up.

Sorry I wasn't around to vote in the last one.

[Damon_Tor]

Keeping in mind that I love the flavor, Arcane Expulsions is near broken, Indwelling requires a player centric reimagining, and Jealous Occupation is weak for a capstone.

Arcane Expulsions: 1/turn Eldritch Blast (even without invocations) on top of regular barbarian damage is going to skew far too strong and that's as a pure Barbarian, Chill Touch would be nearly as bad. As a Hexblade/Barbarian Multiclass EB would be nuclear.

The comparison to the Zealot's bonus damage is relevant here. The Zealot's bonus damage is 1d6+half barbarian level. So at 10th level that's 8.5 average damage, at 15th it's 10.5, and at 20th it's 13.5. A firebolt or eldritch blast (without invocations, which is another issue) will deal 17.5 average damage at 11th-16th levels and 22 at 17th-20th. So the Zealot's feature only deals around 50-60% of the damage of the Possessed, but as long as you hit with a weapon attack the Zealot's damage is automatic, while the Possessed damage also relies on the save/attack of the cantrip. So as long as the chance to hit a given target is around 50-60% (which is reasonable, considering it uses the barbarian's secondary stat) the two subclasses should be reasonably balanced against one another.

I do have concerns about the use of an invocation-boosted eldritch blast here. I could always just have them to use the sorcerer spell list instead of the warlock spell list. It's less thematically appropriate, but it would resolve this issue.
EDIT: Change made.


Indwelling: I understand the flavor but that means your level 6 ability is "you're an NPC for a few rounds." That's not fun. I've written a few classes and subclasses that provide additional personalities for the player to manage, I always put in a sidebar to discuss any conflicts with the DM and party at chargen so there's a good story to tell, and make it explicit your PC's actions are you, the player's decision even if some other force is supposed to be in charge of them bc this is something they're choosing (unlike say, a failed save vs Dominate Person).

For one thing, your level 6 feature will in many cases not result in you losing control at all. Much of the time I expect it would be used to extend a rage through rounds where the barbarian cannot attack, or to keep a rage going from one encounter to another. You don't lose control if you aren't incapacitated. Because you only lose control of yourself during a period of time when you would be unable to act anyway, there's no net loss of agency here. The passenger only takes the wheel if you aren't holding it anyway.


Jealous Occupation: Assuming it comes up at all (those save types come from spells and if the DM doesn't make regular use of psychic type monsters or Enchanter wizards, then this feature may never see use), using your reaction to use a good save is pretty weak. I would say either "While Raging add Con mod to Int/Wis/Cha saves and deal psychic damage of d12 + your Barbarian level to caster" so even if you fail the save there's a chance you break their concentration. Alternatively you could just make the Barbarian immune to the Charmed condition while raging, but you can move that down to level 6 like the berserker.

I suppose getting rid of the reaction requirement would be fine. I disagree about how uncommon such saves are though.
EDIT: I rolled a simpler version of this into the level 10 feature and replaced the level 14 feature.


Personally I think a Partial Possession capstone would be more fun where the Barbarian creates a weak Charm effect when initiating rage, like:

Partial Possession
Beginning at 14th level the influence of your Dark Passenger is stoked by your rage such that smoky tendrils of its power can emerge from your body to touch the minds of nearby creatures. While raging, you can use a bonus action to force a creature within 30 feet of you to make a Wisdom Saving throw against your Spell DC. On a failure they must make a melee attack against a creature of your choosing on their next turn. If they aren't within reach of their target they must use their movement or Dash to try and get within reach. If an affected creature is friendly to you, it can use its reaction to make this attack instead. You can use this Bonus action twice and regain all uses when you next Rage.

This is a powerful but limited control effect, evokes the Mindflayer of Stranger Things, it's something that's always useful even if you're fighting a solo target, maybe making it waste a turn running around to focus attacks on you or another hard target. I'm into it. I'll think about something like this, it's a good idea.
EDIT: Change made. The version I went with is weaker than what you proposed but also isn't limited to twice per rage.
EDIT2: Thumbing through Tasha's, it only just now occurs to be how similar this is to the Path of the Beast feature. I'm going to take some time to reconsider my capstone here.


Altogether, good flavor/concept but needs some work. Good luck!

Thanks.

[nickl_2000]

I don't know how you've managed to fit so many reviews in one day before, nickl_2000. It's seriously impressive. :smallsmile:

My current pace has me at only my second review of the day, but here's a review of your subclass.

Spellcasting
Cantrips
This text mentions that you know two cantrips and learn another at 10th level, while the table has you gaining another one at 7th level. Wait.

Does the 7th level feature grant one?

Ah.

See my first comment on Divine Guidance below. It's confusing to gain another cantrip partway through the progression. I understand it now, but I was confused after just looking at this feature and the table.

Spells Prepared of 1st-Level and Higher
This is a significant departure from other one-third casters. Spells prepared instead of spells known and no limitation besides using the cleric list instead of a fraction of the wizard list has alarm bells going off in my head. Ritual Casting and a holy symbol for Spellcasting Focus increases the volume.

Low level cleric spells can be incredibly potent, especially when combined with a class that naturally gets proficiency in Constitution saving throws. They also have good options for spells that can be cast as a bonus action, which fighters can make good use of. Healing word, sanctuary, shield of faith, and spiritual weapon are all bonus action spells that I'd be immediately looking at for this sort of character.

In addition, there are a few cleric spells that can lead to some nasty combinations when used in conjunction with Action Surge. Hold person springs to mind, as does silence + grappling on a spellcaster. These combinations can be pulled off with a couple of characters normally, but having both options exist for one character means there's no trouble with timing everything properly.


I'm of the opinion that there ought to be a limiting factor on spellcasting. It feels too strong right now.

Divine Weapon
Ha, I enjoy the minor effect that occurs if someone else attempts to hold the weapon. :smallbiggrin:

I have a distinct sense that this feature is sticking its tongue out at Weapon Bond and making fun of it. Am I missing something, or is this just Weapon Bond+?

Divine Guidance
Is this the level seven feature? It doesn't say.

This is another strong feature, which feels like a bit much after the spellcasting section. And it encourages guidance spam. I won't deny the mechanical benefits of spamming guidance, but I personally find it annoying. Is there another cantrip this could be switched out with, like spare the dying?

I can certainly still see cleric traits shining through in this feature.

Shared Healing
I'm a fan of this. No problems with the balance or flavor.

Divine Connection
The second part of the feature is a cool extra.

I've got no issues with the first part, it does a nice job of making it hard for enemies to escape the fighter. It did remind me that this subclass enables a fighter with spiritual guardians, which is terrifying.

Healing Boost
My first reaction was thinking this feature was strong, but I'm no longer so sure.. You've still only got 11 spells per day and an additional +1 attack and damage is not a lot either, even for someone with a lot of attacks. I like this capstone. It's got pieces of the Life Domain's Blessed Healer and Divine Strike mixed together.

Notes
I can't say I noticed this aura piece until you called it out here.

The rest of these comments make sense, but I'd still like to see spellcasting toned down in some fashion.


I find it extremely important to do the reviews. While we are here to compete and make the best received subclass, the real goal is to make a subclass that is playable and works in a game. I frequently send people to these contest posts because the entries are such high quality. I find that the peer review process it be extremely important in coming up with the best entries, so I try to make sure that I take a look at everything I can. That being said, I've spent a lot of time reviewing and analyzing subclasses, so I can do it a little faster than others. Also, the stream on conscious style to my reviews is faster than reading it through 4 times and having it a little more coherent (so that helps me as well).



Thank you for taking a look at mine as well. I really value all feedback from people!

Spells - I fixed the cantrips, I still left it the way that it was but explained it a little bit better and made the progression more standard. As for prepared vs known, you have a very solid point and argument. I also got rid of rituals, you are right that it gives power that probably shouldn't be there (even though I like it, but hey no one wants to make an overly powered subclass).

Divine Weapon - This was superior to the EKs weapon bond, so I tamed it down some. The first being that it no takes an action to summon/change the weapon type instead of a bonus action. That alone should take away some of the versatility of this feature. The light part of it was more for the sake of cool rather than being very helpful, in fact at early levels it's actually more of a negative than a positive.

Divine Guidance - Fixed the level things. Thank you for catching that!

So, the thing with Guidance is that every single person who has this subclass is going to take guidance. It is just way to good not to. Oddly though, I didn't see the bonus action guidance as being that powerful in combat. Guidance takes concentration, so you can't have Shield of Faith, Bless, or Spirit Guardians up and running when you cast it. Beyond that, it is helpful in grappling and spotting others in combat. The real gain is leaving it on someone with Counterspell/Dispel Magic though. Still, since it's concentration it is only on one person at a time and you can't concentrate on anything else. Plus it competes with other bonus actions for fighters. I will think about it more, but as of right now I think this one is fine the way it is.

Divine Connection - That combination of this with spirit guardians is what I was going for actually. It is brutal and nasty to go against, luckily the damage from spirit guardians isn't all that high when you are at level 15.


Thanks again for taking a look. I will try and take a look at the last 2 and provide comments today.

[CountDVB]

We have a bunch of good ones! Blade of Justice is pretty clever!

[nickl_2000]

Getting those last reviews in before the deadline.



Bandage and a Prayer - A good ability, pretty low impact and slightly takes away from the thief's use and object as a bonus action. However, I don't see this as a huge deal since it just for stabilization purposes and there are lots of other ways to do that. What about if you have the healer feat? Can you use the healing action as a bonus action as well, or is that left out on purpose?

Retribution Strike - I like it, very fitting, very appropriate, and useful. The only part I don't particularly like is adding an additional sneak attack die. At low levels this will be absolutely amazing in the difference in damage. At high levels more meh. Either way, it's more work to keep track of and remember.

Tend Wounds - This is interesting and a significant amount of healing per person. I might consider scoping it with a stat or proficiency modifier instead of a flat use of 5 kit usages. That way you see increases over time.

Bring Out Courage - What about Bless, does it stack with that? Bardic Inspiration? You have two choices for how to handle this, either say it doesn't stack with the Paladin's Aura or give it the same name as the Paladin's Aura. Either way it makes it clearer that Bless and Bardic Inspiration are okay.

Silence the Wicked - I don't think this is a bad ability, but tracking it might be a nightmare in actual play. Just a warning.


Overall I like the feel of this subclass. It's got some great things going on with it. I really like the mechanic of getting sneak attack by someone attacking an ally. This would be even more fun with sentinel on this rogue








The dark passenger term sounds familiar, did you or someone else in the contest name a feature a dark passenger before?

Dark Passenger - wow... two skills, with expertise on both of them, allowed to use a primary Barb stat, and a language? That is a lot, especially considering that there is more at level 3.

Arcane Expulsions - Whenever you gain a level... just note that it has to be a legal choice. I.e. no BB/GFB clearly.

A cantrip for free? That's actually huge for a damage difference. Personally I would choose Shocking Grasp and Mind Sliver since my goal would always to be within melee range. Although True Strike has some interesting potential here, weird potential since how it is phrased, but still interesting. I forgot to ask about spells that require concentration? If you cast Create Bonfire, can you keep concentration on it?

Symbiotic Resistance - Making int/wisdom/cha saves as Con is pretty amazing on it's own. I don't think you need the damage resistance.

Infective Possession - Hello Rogue friend who just doubled their damage. Making your allies get a reaction attack every single round as a bonus action may end up being overpowered. You would have to play test to make sure, but I think you may need to limit the amount of times this can be done to someone (pass or fail the save).

[BerzerkerUnit]

EDIT2: Thumbing through Tasha's, it only just now occurs to be how similar this is to the Path of the Beast feature. I'm going to take some time to reconsider my capstone here.
Thanks.

The damage of Zealot is reliable, but I think you might be underestimating the potential of EB's additional chances to Crit, but statistics aren't my specialty.

IME the number of times you can be incapacitated without being reduced to 0 hp is significant and I took it that your Ridealong got to act during any of them (Hypnotic Pattern, Stunning Strike, Sleep, some Charm effects, etc). But if that's not your intent, then perhaps my reading was weak.

Didn't realize there'd be overlap with Beast path. I stopped reading the new one when I saw they bumped the Thagomizer down a die size or 2. In that case I'd go with a Magic Jar-lite capstone.

Partial Possession
Beginning at level 14, when you're reduced to 0 hp your Dark Passenger can drag your soul from the realm between life and death into the body of a creature within 60 feet. The target creature must make a Charisma save vs your spell DC or become Possessed by you. For the duration of the possession, at the beginning of the creature's turn you can decide whether you'll control its movement, its action, or its bonus action and the creature will behave as you direct, it is then free to use the remainder of its turn as it chooses. The possession ends when you regain hit points, are stabilized, or die.
If the creature is reduced to 0 hit points before the possession ends, the departure of its spirit empowers your Dark Passenger. Your spirit returns to your body and you regain hit points equal to your Barbarian level. You can use this feature once, you regain its use after a short or long rest.

[Crim the Cold]

The introduction to this subclass is succinct and funny.

Moon Shape
The third bullet point might be better worded if it was something along the lines of "you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to use Moon Shape."

I'm already imagining delightfully fun shenanigans with this feature. It's inventive. I'm having trouble figuring out the balance of it because it mostly enhances utility, but it seems fine at face value.

Beasts' Cant
This is delightful.

Moon Shape Expertise
Interesting. Your moon shape can now afford to take a hit.

I'm hesitant about this, but I think between the ability to automatically cause an attack to miss and the ability to hide in an opponents space, Moon Shape Expertise might be a little strong. Compared to other rogue subclass abilities at the same level, it offers a bit too much. My suggestion would be to cut one of the last two bullet points.

Multi-Morph
More utility, more awesomeness, more inability on my part to figure out the balance of a feature. Nothing jumps out about it to me as broken, so I think it's fine.

Moon Swarm
Well that's fun.

The boost to survivability in combination with the bonus hit points from Moon Shape Expertise makes me think this might be a bit too strong. It's right on the edge of balanced <-> too strong.

Bonus Content
Okay, that's just icing on the cake. :smallsmile:



Thank you for the review. I definitely agree with your wording for cunning action. Moon Swarm may be a bit strong but at that level you have wizards wielding spells like Wish for the easiest example.

As for Moon Shape Expertise, my current D&D group had a player lose a character recently and the DM agreed to let him playtest this subclass. The group was level 11 and the penalty for character death is that your new character comes in at 1 level lower than the rest of the group. They usually catch up at the end of the current campaign before we swap out DMs. The auto miss rarely came up because of his tendency to remain in moon shape once transformed. Even when it did the two auto-misses per rest were not game breaking. The extra 40 hp from having two moon shapes at level 10 plus Uncanny Dodge did make for a tankier than normal rogue. Not too tanky though since that hp is wrapped up in an easy to smash low AC tiny bundle of fluff. I think my favorite part was the shenanigans he got into with an orc tribe by "hiding" on the backs of various tribe members as a spider. Lots of, "Don't move! I smash for you." He did ask me why I mentioned a murder squirrel in the intro but didn't make a stat block for a squirrel so I added that to the latest version.

Speaking of which version 3 of the moonlighter is up with the changed line in Moon shape and an additional stat block for a squirrel in the Bonus Content section.

I also updated the changelog.

[Twelvetrees]

Managed to find time for another review!

Spirit Points
Being more mobile appears to be the primary benefit this feature provides when it is first acquired. It's helpful, but a little underwhelming. The most use I can think of for this feature is to preserve your concentration on spells by enabling you to get out of range of foes.

Mental Fortress is incredibly good if you need to make any of those saves, but feels like a waste of points to use if you don't know the capabilities of your foes that well.

Wholeness of Mind
This can really add up to a lot of healing. But when Circle of the Moon exists, this is no issue in comparison.

Improved Spirit Points
Mental Fortress starts to become more useful at higher levels, so I can see an improved version being an attractive choice. There's also a good chance that Mental Fortress is something you have points to spare for at this level, so it won't feel like a loss if you use it and then don't need to make a save.

Become as Wind gives benefits that don't seem to do much for druids. The increased speed doesn't do a lot for a claass that has many ranged options and the weapon attack doesn't do much for a class that relies so heavily on spells.

Wholeness of Mind is probably the best option here. It will always be helpful when you choose to use it and it gives you a much better healing effect now as well. I think the other two options could offer some additional benefits to make them competitive with this one.

Tongue of the Wild
Yep, this is useful. And particularly strong when doing anything other than fighting.



My major takeaway here is that a Circle of Spirit druid is well suited to healing their own wounds.


Edit: Two more. :smallsmile:

I really like the flavor at the beginning. This is certainly a character archetype that I've seen before in stories, so I'm exciting to see how the features work out.

Dark Passenger
Giving a barbarian a route to using Intelligence-based skills and giving them an extra language fits well with the idea of having a passenger living inside of you. The only thing that I feel is missing from this feature is the story reasoning behind being able to use Constitution for these checks. Do you need to be particularly hardy to bear the strain of the truths your passenger communicates to you? Is it that you must fight to regain control of your body after your passenger speaks through your mouth to say what it knows?

Arcane Expulsions
Woah, wait. This is barbarian combined with sorcerer. I was expecting warlock. Okay.

This is better than the Eldritch Knight's War Magic. You get to make your attacks as normal and then cast a cantrip as well. I think this needs to be toned back, despite how well it gets across the idea of an entity living inside of you being the one casting the spell.

Indwelling
The most common use for this ability that I can see would be when your character drops to 0 hit points. Continuing to stay up after that point is quite the risk to take and would more than likely result in death. If your party has the resources to spare to bring you back to life, this ability is extremely strong, but if they don't then it likely won't see much use.

I think this might be work better if it was something you could activate when you dropped to 0 hit points. Maybe you could remain at 1 hit point and gain a certain number of temporary hit points and still lose control of yourself?

Symbiotic Resistance
I can get behind this. Nothing much to comment on here, this seems solid.

Infective Possession
This appears most similar to the Berserker's Retaliation feature. I think they are about the same strength, with this feature potentially being the weaker of the two. Can you explain why you made the choice to allow a creature that saves against this feature to be immune to it for 24 hours? I'm wondering if that is necessary.


Special Requirements
What's the reasoning behind requiring them to already have Expertise in Acrobatics instead of giving them it as a 3rd level feature?

Unarmored Defense
Okay. This is a slight boost to AC if the rogue has good Intelligence.

Wind Sprint and Jump Kick
I don't feel like a rogue gets much out of either of these abilities, surprisingly. Rogues can already use Cunning Action to move quickly and their weapons will outclass Jump Kick until 17th level. The unarmed strikes also aren't magical and don't ever become magical, which is a hinderance.

Light as a Feather
There's a lot going on here and it all feels quite convoluted. The climbing could apply to all movement with no issue. A Thief can do so from 3rd level, so I wouldn't see it being an issue. Falling damage being reduced by Acrobatics works but is quite variable. I think a set value would work better (and emulate the monk better).

Drop Attack feels unnecessarily complicated. I feel like it could be replaced with something along the lines of "If you fall on your turn and take no damage from the fall, deal +X extra damage this turn if you make a Sneak Attack."

Spinning Kick
More opportunities to land a Sneak Attack are useful

Leaf on the Wind
All of this feels too particular. As a player, I want to see new features, not slight expansions on old ones.

Walking on Air
I feel like the second paragraph of the monk's Unarmored Movement could replace this and be more clear. The saving throw granted by this feature is so specific that a character could go their entire career and never make use of it.

Tornado Kick
I think a set saving throw would be more appropriate than the saving throw DC set by an Acrobatics check.

[Damon_Tor]

I wrote the Path of Possession a new capstone, Dark Conduit. While raging, the Possessed Barbarian acts a gateway to his passenger's home plane, and he can use bonus actions while raging to produce Dark Underlings. These are quite weak as far as summons go, but he can produce several of them as the rage goes on, based on his constitution modifier. I don't think there's a summoner barbarian build yet so... here you go!


The dark passenger term sounds familiar, did you or someone else in the contest name a feature a dark passenger before?

IIRC, that was the phrase used to describe Diablo during the part of Diablo II when he was bound in the body the hero of the first game.


Dark Passenger - wow... two skills, with expertise on both of them, allowed to use a primary Barb stat, and a language? That is a lot, especially considering that there is more at level 3. But they aren't good skills. Neither knowledge checks nor languages are likely to move the needle in a typical game, so I consider this a ribbon.


Arcane Expulsions - Whenever you gain a level... just note that it has to be a legal choice. I.e. no BB/GFB clearly. I'll look into clarifying this, thank you. EDIT: Change made


A cantrip for free? That's actually huge for a damage difference. Personally I would choose Shocking Grasp and Mind Sliver since my goal would always to be within melee range. Although True Strike has some interesting potential here, weird potential since how it is phrased, but still interesting. I forgot to ask about spells that require concentration? If you cast Create Bonfire, can you keep concentration on it?I went other the math I feel justifies the damage in an earlier response: compared to a Zealot's bonus damage, the Possessed's cantrip breaks even assuming it hits between 50 and 60% of the time (depending on what level we're doing the comparison). As for concentration, I had written wording allowing it in an earlier version, but I realized it wouldn't work well with the way I had limited the cantrip to only effecting creatures who you had hit with a weapon attack that turn: on subsequent turns would be bonfire just stop burning them even if it was still there? I could have rewritten that prohibition to allow for bonfire to be functional (I admit it would be neat on a grappling barbarian) but I decided it wasn't worth the added complexity of the wording, so I just cut it. As written, the bonfire would deal its damage once then immediately fizzle.


Symbiotic Resistance - Making int/wisdom/cha saves as Con is pretty amazing on it's own. I don't think you need the damage resistance. You're probably right. EDIT: Change made


Infective Possession - Hello Rogue friend who just doubled their damage. Making your allies get a reaction attack every single round as a bonus action may end up being overpowered. You would have to play test to make sure, but I think you may need to limit the amount of times this can be done to someone (pass or fail the save). This ability has been replaced. As written the old ability was far too similar to an ability one of the TCoE barbarian subclasses gets.




The damage of Zealot is reliable, but I think you might be underestimating the potential of EB's additional chances to Crit, but statistics aren't my specialty.I changed this ability to pull from the Sorcerer spell list instead of Warlock, so EB shenanigans shouldn't be an issue.


IME the number of times you can be incapacitated without being reduced to 0 hp is significant and I took it that your Ridealong got to act during any of them (Hypnotic Pattern, Stunning Strike, Sleep, some Charm effects, etc). But if that's not your intent, then perhaps my reading was weak.No, your reading was accurate, the Passenger would take the wheel if you were effected by those spells. But the point is, those spells normally prevent you from acting. So you aren't giving up actions to your Passenger, your Passenger is taking actions you would otherwise not have been able to take at all. When those spells stop effecting you, you would immediately be back in the driver's seat.


Didn't realize there'd be overlap with Beast path. I stopped reading the new one when I saw they bumped the Thagomizer down a die size or 2. In that case I'd go with a Magic Jar-lite capstone.

Partial Possession
Beginning at level 14, when you're reduced to 0 hp your Dark Passenger can drag your soul from the realm between life and death into the body of a creature within 60 feet. The target creature must make a Charisma save vs your spell DC or become Possessed by you. For the duration of the possession, at the beginning of the creature's turn you can decide whether you'll control its movement, its action, or its bonus action and the creature will behave as you direct, it is then free to use the remainder of its turn as it chooses. The possession ends when you regain hit points, are stabilized, or die.
If the creature is reduced to 0 hit points before the possession ends, the departure of its spirit empowers your Dark Passenger. Your spirit returns to your body and you regain hit points equal to your Barbarian level. You can use this feature once, you regain its use after a short or long rest.I went a different way with it, opting to get rid of the offensive-possession concept entirely and go with a summoning ability instead.




I really like the flavor at the beginning. This is certainly a character archetype that I've seen before in stories, so I'm exciting to see how the features work out.

Dark Passenger
Giving a barbarian a route to using Intelligence-based skills and giving them an extra language fits well with the idea of having a passenger living inside of you. The only thing that I feel is missing from this feature is the story reasoning behind being able to use Constitution for these checks. Do you need to be particularly hardy to bear the strain of the truths your passenger communicates to you? Is it that you must fight to regain control of your body after your passenger speaks through your mouth to say what it knows? My interpretation: whenever the Passenger interacts with you, it hurts. It's voice might feel like a ringing in your ears or a burning in your brain. The higher your tolerance to pain, the more intimate and meaningful your connection to your Passenger can become. But that's fluff, and in general I don't like to get too in depth with that within the description of a given ability. Maybe one player's Passenger opens a Magic Mouth on the barbarian's chest to opine about the meaning of ineffable sigils. Maybe another Passenger feeds directly on the lifeforce of his host, and thinks more clearly if he's got more to feed on. Heck, maybe the passenger is an illithid tadpole that took a wrong at Albuquerque and took up residence in its host's liver instead of his brain, and so directly translates the vitality of its host into cognitive ability because his liver is kind of a secondary thinking organ.


Arcane ExpulsionsWoah, wait. This is barbarian combined with sorcerer. I was expecting warlock. Okay.
Blurry line I suppose. The Passenger is not a Patron, though comparisons can obviously be drawn. Mostly the core reason for using the Sorcerer spell list for this feature is mechanical: I didn't want Eldritch Blast to be a legal choice.


This is better than the Eldritch Knight's War Magic. You get to make your attacks as normal and then cast a cantrip as well. I think this needs to be toned back, despite how well it gets across the idea of an entity living inside of you being the one casting the spell.War Magic isn't limited by a daily resource like Arcane Expulsions is limited by Rage uses, so we expect features which only work while raging to more powerful than features that work all day. It's also relevant that Arcane Expulsions doesn't allow Booming Blade or Greenflame Blade, while War Magic does.


Indwelling
The most common use for this ability that I can see would be when your character drops to 0 hit points. Continuing to stay up after that point is quite the risk to take and would more than likely result in death. If your party has the resources to spare to bring you back to life, this ability is extremely strong, but if they don't then it likely won't see much use.I expect the most common use of this ability would be to stretch the duration of your rage from one encounter to another (a use which wouldn't cause you to lose control of yourself, I'll note). If you use it to stay standing after hitting 0 HP there's the risk of death, yes. It's weaker than the Zealot's Rage Beyond Death in this way, but then it should be weaker as the ability comes much sooner. As you get more rages/day the utility of stretching out your rages will diminish, but will become relevant again once you get Dark Conduit. Because your underlings vanish when your rage ends, by stretching out one rage you would prevent yourself from having to resummon your droogies after you start a new rage.


I think this might be work better if it was something you could activate when you dropped to 0 hit points. Maybe you could remain at 1 hit point and gain a certain number of temporary hit points and still lose control of yourself? That starts to step on the toes of the Zealot more than I would like.


Infective Possession
This appears most similar to the Berserker's Retaliation feature. I think they are about the same strength, with this feature potentially being the weaker of the two. Can you explain why you made the choice to allow a creature that saves against this feature to be immune to it for 24 hours? I'm wondering if that is necessary. As noted, this ability has been replaced.

[Damon_Tor]

I'd really like feedback on this:


Dark Conduit
Starting at 14th level, your dark passenger can use your body as a portal to its native plane. When you enter your rage, and as a bonus action while raging, you can summon a Dark Underling to an unoccupied space within 5 feet of you. You can use this ability a number of times equal to your constitution modifier and regain all uses of it when you begin a new rage. See its game statistics in the Dark Underling stat block.
You determine the creature's appearance; your choices have no effect on its game statistics.
When you gain this ability, pick one creature type (for example, fiend, fey, undead, aberration, etc): your underlings have that creature type
In combat, your underlings share your initiative count, but they take their turns immediately after yours. They follow your mental orders (no action required) to the best of their ability.
A Dark Underling vanishes when your current rage ends or when it is reduced to 0 or fewer hitpoints. Your Dark Underlings act on your initiative, taking their turns after yours. They follow your mental orders (no action required) to the best of their ability.




Dark Underling
Tiny
__________________________________________________
Armor Class 10
Hitpoints 1
Speed 30 ft., Fly 30 ft.
__________________________________________________



STR

DEX

CON

INT

WIS

CHA



10 (+0)

10 (+0)

10 (+0)

10 (+0)

10 (+0)

10 (+0)

__________________________________________________
Damage Immunities Any damage types dealt by cantrips chosen for your Arcane Expulsions feature
Senses Darkvision 60 feet, Passive Perception 10
Languages The language granted by your Dark Patron feature

Actions___________________________________________
Dark Underling Strike Melee Weapon Attack: Your spell attack modifier to hit, reach 5 ft., one target you can see. Hit: 1d6 Slashing Damage. This damage is considered magical.




They're deliberately low-paperwork minions. No HP to track, all saves at +0, AC at 10. They can be casually swatted away by just about anything, but even that's a win: an attack that gets wasted on an Underling doesn't land on you or your allies. Of course an AoE attack will wipe them out unless it's a damage type they're immune to, but even then you can call that a victory because you're getting that AoE dropped on your frontline instead of on top of your casters.

It's worth noting that the Possessed barbarian is unique in that he can "pre-rage" if he feels like it, using Indwelling to feed his rage with a Hit Die instead of needing to attack. So if the situation allows for it, he can take a minute and pre-summon a little swarm of these guys before he runs into battle.

[Crim the Cold]

Damon_Tor, I'm not the sharpest knife in the Caesar but usually abilities that either increase your party's action economy or reduce the enemy's action economy are usually very powerful. In this case, other classes get access to much more powerful abilities much sooner. I'd say its probably okay. It has the potential to be among the weakest or the strongest of the level 14 path abilities based on whether they snowball or not. It depends on the DM.

[Edea]

I'm withdrawing my entry, sorry. I simply don't have the time right now to go over it, Christmas On a Very Icy Day had wreaked havoc with my work schedule. Best of luck to other entrants.

[MoleMage]

Voting time!

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?623531-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XIX-Voting-Thread&p=24833915#post24833915

I also updated the first post with the new representation standings, tiebreaker rules, and the future contest ideas spoiler has been renamed to contest theme pool and updated with the full list of themes I am keeping track of in a spreadsheet, including indication of which ones are not currently in the voting pool.

[sengmeng]

My entry should be considered withdrawn :(

[MoleMage]

My entry should be considered withdrawn :(

Did I miss a request for that somewhere? Or are you withdrawing it as of now? It seems complete to me.

EDIT: Oh, just saw the missing 6th level feature. I'm okay with leaving it in the running since I missed it on the first passthrough and some votes are already in, but if you'd rather withdraw it still I can strike it out.

[sengmeng]

Did I miss a request for that somewhere? Or are you withdrawing it as of now? It seems complete to me.

EDIT: Oh, just saw the missing 6th level feature. I'm okay with leaving it in the running since I missed it on the first passthrough and some votes are already in, but if you'd rather withdraw it still I can strike it out.

You don't have to do anything, I just thought I'd warn future voters it's not complete so as not to waste their time.

[sengmeng]

1. Monk: Way of the Punchimancer sengmeng

I'm flattered and confused

[sleepyhead]

I'm flattered and confused

Just a big fan of the concept. Most entrys could use more development (especially my own) so as long as the idea and general direction are in place I'm not really concerned about completeness.

[CountDVB]

3 days of voting left everyone!

[Damon_Tor]

Why are subclasses so much more popular than base classes in 5e?
(Replying here so as to not clutter the voting thread)

It's fairly challenging to come up with a concept that doesn't fit in well with one of the other base classes. Looking at the base class homebrews I spend all my time thinking "why isn't this just a subclass of x?". It's extremely unusual that someone comes up with a base class that I really feel needs its own identity. I feel like that's baked into 5e, where the base classes are very basic by design are are intended to be expanded upon via subclasses.

[sengmeng]

(Replying here so as to not clutter the voting thread)

It's fairly challenging to come up with a concept that doesn't fit in well with one of the other base classes. Looking at the base class homebrews I spend all my time thinking "why isn't this just a subclass of x?". It's extremely unusual that someone comes up with a base class that I really feel needs its own identity. I feel like that's baked into 5e, where the base classes are very basic by design are are intended to be expanded upon via subclasses.

Very complete and well thought out answer, my two copper pieces to add is that making a base class means making 2 or 3 subclasses as well to go with it, plus the basic chassis will likely be even more work than that, so on top of Molemage's excellent reasoning above, it's also about five times as much work.

[Old Harry MTX]

(Replying here so as to not clutter the voting thread)

It's fairly challenging to come up with a concept that doesn't fit in well with one of the other base classes. Looking at the base class homebrews I spend all my time thinking "why isn't this just a subclass of x?". It's extremely unusual that someone comes up with a base class that I really feel needs its own identity. I feel like that's baked into 5e, where the base classes are very basic by design are are intended to be expanded upon via subclasses.


Very complete and well thought out answer, my two copper pieces to add is that making a base class means making 2 or 3 subclasses as well to go with it, plus the basic chassis will likely be even more work than that, so on top of Molemage's excellent reasoning above, it's also about five times as much work.

Totally agree to both. Several times I have had ideas not suitable to be developed as subclasses, but which were not rich enough to be developed as base classes with 2 or 3 dedicated subclasses.

To be honest, I think that there's absolutely nothing wrong to develop base classes with no subclasses.

[Damon_Tor]

Totally agree to both. Several times I have had ideas not suitable to be developed as subclasses, but which were not rich enough to be developed as base classes with 2 or 3 dedicated subclasses.

To be honest, I think that there's absolutely nothing wrong to develop base classes with no subclasses.

Choices are important, even if those aren't exactly subclasses.

For example, I've only ever put together one full class for 5e, a dragonborn racial class meant to recreate the experience of playing as a dragon. It didn't have subclasses per-se but it was structured loosely on the Warlock progression and you gained additional features based on your draconic ancestor at the same levels a warlock would gain patron features, a one time choice at level 3 taking the place of the pact boons, and a selection of various dragon features you can add to your body which progress at the same rate Warlocks gain their invocations. The end result of all these choices is that you could build one these guys as a melee brute or a breath-weapon nuker or even a high-charisma infiltrator even without anything that looks anything like a subclass proper.

[Old Harry MTX]

Choices are important, even if those aren't exactly subclasses.

For example, I've only ever put together one full class for 5e, a dragonborn racial class meant to recreate the experience of playing as a dragon. It didn't have subclasses per-se but it was structured loosely on the Warlock progression and you gained additional features based on your draconic ancestor at the same levels a warlock would gain patron features, a one time choice at level 3 taking the place of the pact boons, and a selection of various dragon features you can add to your body which progress at the same rate Warlocks gain their invocations. The end result of all these choices is that you could build one these guys as a melee brute or a breath-weapon nuker or even a high-charisma infiltrator even without anything that looks anything like a subclass proper.

You are right, but giving choices with a Fighting Style, the pick of a spell or a maneuver, or similar feature that let you choose between several effect are a thing, a subclass is completely different.

A subclass usually needs a proper flavour and/or a proper mechanic.

[nickl_2000]

I don't make new classes very often myself (in fact, I've only made one and wasn't happy with it). It's for a few reasons, one is because it is so much work. You need to design a new base class that has something unique and different and then 3 subclasses to go along with it, it's just a lot and I don't want to put that much time into it. The second is that nearly all of my ideas can be achieved through the design space that already exists. With the addition of the artificer, there is a lot of different feels of classes out there and most of my flavour and ideas can be fit into what already exists.

Beyond that, I only have so many ideas. Eventually I run out of new mechanics that I can put into a character. When I am creating a subclass, I only need 2-3 new mechanics or ideas (sometimes less) and can make something unique and makes an impact. When creating a new class, I need 15 or so new ideas and that can be painful to have all of them without feeling like I am re-hashing what already exists.

TL:DR I can do what I want with the classes that already exist and I'm to lazy to make a whole new class.

[Damon_Tor]

Unless my math is wrong, it looks to me like Subsystems Online and I Read it in a Book are tied. If so I'm happy to swap my choice to break the tie in favor of Subsystems Online: I don't really have a strong opinion between the two.

[CountDVB]

Unless my math is wrong, it looks to me like Subsystems Online and I Read it in a Book are tied. If so I'm happy to swap my choice to break the tie in favor of Subsystems Online: I don't really have a strong opinion between the two.

How would Subsystems Online work? We make our own sub-mechanic or borrow it from homebrewed sources? What counts as homebrew?

[MoleMage]

Time to count up our winnings and get out of here with our borrowed class features. Other than first place, it was a tight race with three classes earning 6 and two classes earning 7 points, but that's why I codified the tiebreaker rules a couple contests back.

In 3rd place, losing the tiebreaker but earning 7 points, it's MoleMage's Circle of Spirit! Master the self, and you master all, and that applies for druids as much as for monks.

In 2nd place, winning out that same tiebreaker by dint of more 1st-place votes, also earning 7 points, it's Ilerien's Way of the Chameleon! Why borrow one class's features when you can borrow them all?

And in 1st place, winning with a staggering 12 points, nearly twice as many as any other entrant, it's Crim the Cold's Moonlighter Rogue! Turn into small, seemingly helpless animals, then use the advantage provided by your cuteness to commit crimes!

For our themes, we had a tie in total points, but Subsystems Online took the greater number of 1st place votes, so what we're going to do is this: Context XX will be Subsystem's Online, and Contest XXI will be I Read This in a Book. There won't be a voting pool for theme next voting thread, and we'll start over with a newly randomized batch of themes in the one after that.

Voting has been called! I'll be formatting the Context XX entry thread over the next couple minutes, but I'm sure some of you have already got ideas in the works.

[CountDVB]

I did better than last time! That's good! Congrats and happy holidays!

How would subsystems work excatly? At least as you put it? Kinda like how we have the Battle Master mechanics, but we make it ourselves?

[MoleMage]

New Thread is up!

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624341-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XX-Subsystems-Online&p=24855423#post24855423


I did better than last time! That's good! Congrats and happy holidays!

How would subsystems work excatly? At least as you put it? Kinda like how we have the Battle Master mechanics, but we make it ourselves?

I got into a little more detail in the submission thread, but essentially yeah. I'd consider Battle Master maneuvers and Spellcasting to be the big "subsystems" in core play. Really any feature that can be lifted, have the stats and maybe the number known changed, and dropped on another class. When I'm thinking to myself I call them "shared mechanics" (any mechanic used by more than one class with small variations).

[CountDVB]

New Thread is up!

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624341-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XX-Subsystems-Online&p=24855423#post24855423



I got into a little more detail in the submission thread, but essentially yeah. I'd consider Battle Master maneuvers and Spellcasting to be the big "subsystems" in core play. Really any feature that can be lifted, have the stats and maybe the number known changed, and dropped on another class. When I'm thinking to myself I call them "shared mechanics" (any mechanic used by more than one class with small variations).

Would stuff from unreleased Unearthed Arcana count or no?

[MoleMage]

Would stuff from unreleased Unearthed Arcana count or no?

I'll say go for it. It's not technically homebrew, but it's not published content either.

[CountDVB]

I'll say go for it. It's not technically homebrew, but it's not published content either.

True, though I suppose we could ask you if something counts as viable, right?

[Lvl45DM!]

Yeah what about Blood Hunter Mutagens or Warlock Invocations? Are those subsystems?

Cos my Artificer Specialty: Fleshwarper or Sorcerous Origin: Bloodline Infuser would be closer to them.

[Damon_Tor]

I feel like we're always pretty relaxed about what "counts" for meeting the theme. I'm a little worried people are going to get hung up on "choose x amount of features from this long list of features" (like spellcasting, maneuvers, infusions, invocations, etc) but that's not how I read the theme. Psi dice (both as presented in UA and in print) would be a subsystem. I would argue that a paladin's "smite" could even be considered a subsystem considering that warlocks got their own version of it.

Tipping my hand a little, I'm working on a monk subclass that can enter a "stance" which comes with bonuses and penalties. Each turn he can go deeper into his stance and the bonuses and penalties increase. That's kind of it, that's what I'm planning. The new subsystem is "stances" and in theory any subclass might have a stance or stances they can enter and deepen in the same way. Stances are mutually exclusive, and you must exit one stance before you enter another. This monk just has the one stance, but there's not a reason another monk (or fighter or rogue or whatever else) couldn't have one or more stances of their own.

[MoleMage]

Yeah what about Blood Hunter Mutagens or Warlock Invocations? Are those subsystems?

Cos my Artificer Specialty: Fleshwarper or Sorcerous Origin: Bloodline Infuser would be closer to them.

Yes, those are both subsystems, though the Warlock Invocations one would not be an ideal fit because the theme calls for homebrew subsystems (the Blood Hunter, though extremely widely known and used, is still technically not official content and I consider it homebrew). Damon Tor's examples are also good, Psi Dice is an excellent example (the basic mechanics work the same for all classes that use them, but the actual usage varies). Smite is one I hadn't considered but definitely fits the theme.

And as Damon Tor said, we don't really enforce theme as a matter of permissibility. If you think it fits, we accept that entry, and nobody has yet made one that was so flagrantly off-theme that we had to question it (this isn't a challenge). Many people do consider how well aligned to the theme an entry is when they are voting or giving feedback.

[Lvl45DM!]

Yes, those are both subsystems, though the Warlock Invocations one would not be an ideal fit because the theme calls for homebrew subsystems (the Blood Hunter, though extremely widely known and used, is still technically not official content and I consider it homebrew). Damon Tor's examples are also good, Psi Dice is an excellent example (the basic mechanics work the same for all classes that use them, but the actual usage varies). Smite is one I hadn't considered but definitely fits the theme.

And as Damon Tor said, we don't really enforce theme as a matter of permissibility. If you think it fits, we accept that entry, and nobody has yet made one that was so flagrantly off-theme that we had to question it (this isn't a challenge). Many people do consider how well aligned to the theme an entry is when they are voting or giving feedback.

Oh no, certainly not just taking those existing ones. If im gonna work with a subsystem then the challenge is to make a subsystem.
also holy crap, two entries already? Y'all are nerds :smalltongue: I love it.

[nickl_2000]

Voting has been called! I'll be formatting the Context XX entry thread over the next couple minutes, but I'm sure some of you have already got ideas in the works.

Congratulations folks!

[MoleMage]

Oh no, certainly not just taking those existing ones. If im gonna work with a subsystem then the challenge is to make a subsystem.
also holy crap, two entries already? Y'all are nerds :smalltongue: I love it.

At this point I'm surprised if we don't have at least one full entry by the end of the first day.

[CountDVB]

Inspired by the "Wild Card Gambit" of Legends of Runeterra: Dark Tides of Bilgewater's Wild Card Rogue (this counts as homebrew according to the D&D wikidot, so that's my justification)...

I present the Cleric's Fortune Domain, Version 1.0

[RickAsWritten]

Wizard Arcane Tradition – Anti-Mage (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24857338&postcount=7)

This...is the most ambitious subclass that I have ever attempted. I pretty much chopped-and-screwed one of the most iconic classes in fantasy gaming. I...really don't know if this is balanced or even how to balance it without extensive play-testing. I know that it's front-loaded, but I tried to keep multiclassing in mind. That said, I love the anti-mage trope and have been wanting to create something like this for a while, but none of the contests matched up theme-wise. Even if it needs some work, I'm proud of it and think it would be a lot of fun to play.

[sengmeng]

I like how the Atoner turned out. PEACH

[Ilerien]

Wizard Arcane Tradition – Anti-Mage (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24857338&postcount=7)

This...is the most ambitious subclass that I have ever attempted. I pretty much chopped-and-screwed one of the most iconic classes in fantasy gaming. I...really don't know if this is balanced or even how to balance it without extensive play-testing. I know that it's front-loaded, but I tried to keep multiclassing in mind. That said, I love the anti-mage trope and have been wanting to create something like this for a while, but none of the contests matched up theme-wise. Even if it needs some work, I'm proud of it and think it would be a lot of fun to play.
Quick feedback just to point out what catches the eye immediately:

You have a strong innate ability to perform magicFluff-wise, sounds like a sorcerer to me, not a wizard, to be honest. :) Mechanics-wise, a sorcerer would make more sense too: would be odd if a 1st level wizard suddenly became its own antithesis after levelling up. Sorcerers get their subclass at the 1st level.

In addition, the spell slots gained from this class cannot be used to cast spells from another class’ spell list.There's an inconsistency with 5e multiclassing rules: if you have spellcasting from more than one class, you can't distinguish between spell slots gained from one class or the other. I suggest disallowing spellcasting using spell slots altogether.

In exchange for losing the ability to cast magic, you gain the innate abilities listed below and you can use the power of your spell slots to power anti-mage abilities that you gain as you level up.There should be more options fueled by spell slots: I see only one, and it's kinda situational. Before you get to the 6th level, you won't use your spell slots much. Also, most (if not all) options should take into account the expended slot's level.

[RickAsWritten]

Quick feedback just to point out what catches the eye immediately:
Fluff-wise, sounds like a sorcerer to me, not a wizard, to be honest. :) Mechanics-wise, a sorcerer would make more sense too: would be odd if a 1st level wizard suddenly became its own antithesis after levelling up. Sorcerers get their subclass at the 1st level.

Hah, yeah it was originally a sorcerer, but I didn't feel comfortable with how much stuff I would have had to make available for a one-level dip. I know two isn't all that much better, but it's still twice the cost and twice the delay to your other class.

There's an inconsistency with 5e multiclassing rules: if you have spellcasting from more than one class, you can't distinguish between spell slots gained from one class or the other. I suggest disallowing spellcasting suing spell slots altogether.

Good suggestion, and fitting with the theme of being cut off from the weave.

There should be more options fueled by spell slots: I see only one, and it's kinda situational. Before you get to the 6th level, you won't use your spell slots much. Also, most (if not all) options should take into account the expended slot's level.

There's sort of two, but the other is mostly passive. Arcane Resistance requires you to have slots left.

Good point though. I will definitely add some more uses for spell slots.

See highlighted Thanks for the feedback!

[Damon_Tor]

On the fortune cleric: chess has no luck element, and presumably neither does dragon chess. It feels a bit odd that it would be available as a possible game proficiency for a fortune cleric with that in mind.

[Damon_Tor]

The Stone Foot monk is ready for initial critique.

[CountDVB]

On the fortune cleric: chess has no luck element, and presumably neither does dragon chess. It feels a bit odd that it would be available as a possible game proficiency for a fortune cleric with that in mind.

I went with what the preexisting system had and so on for it. I’ll see if I can come up with other names though

[Damon_Tor]

Wizard Arcane Tradition – Anti-Mage (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24857338&postcount=7)

This...is the most ambitious subclass that I have ever attempted. I pretty much chopped-and-screwed one of the most iconic classes in fantasy gaming. I...really don't know if this is balanced or even how to balance it without extensive play-testing. I know that it's front-loaded, but I tried to keep multiclassing in mind. That said, I love the anti-mage trope and have been wanting to create something like this for a while, but none of the contests matched up theme-wise. Even if it needs some work, I'm proud of it and think it would be a lot of fun to play.

Its a wizard with no spells, with (in effect) a d8 hit die and armor and weapon proficiencies. I can't help but feel like the base class here is entirely irrelevant mechanically, so it's purely a fluff decision. You could make this a druid subclass and avoid having to change the hit points and armor, flavor it like a druid sect that believes magic is anathema to nature. Or it could be a cleric domain for a god is opposition to spellcasting. I'm just struck by the "why a wizard" problem.

[RickAsWritten]

Its a wizard with no spells, with (in effect) a d8 hit die and armor and weapon proficiencies. I can't help but feel like the base class here is entirely irrelevant mechanically, so it's purely a fluff decision. You could make this a druid subclass and avoid having to change the hit points and armor, flavor it like a druid sect that believes magic is anathema to nature. Or it could be a cleric domain for a god is opposition to spellcasting. I'm just struck by the "why a wizard" problem.

I can't tell if that is a weakness in my design, or proof-positive that it follows the contest prompt to a tee. Probably both. It gives an easy sub-system template to remove spellcasting from other spellcaster classes, but at the same time doesn't go far enough to have a true identity.

[Damon_Tor]

I went with what the preexisting system had and so on for it. I’ll see if I can come up with other names though

You could expand your theme to be more of a "games" domain more broadly. But I don't think you need a third option that badly. You could cut the chess set and focus on the other two feature sets.

[CountDVB]

You could expand your theme to be more of a "games" domain more broadly. But I don't think you need a third option that badly. You could cut the chess set and focus on the other two feature sets.

I did go with what the original "Wild Card" subclass pattern had, which was dragonchess alongside die and cards. I might change it with something else if that's cumbersome.

[sengmeng]

I like how the Atoner turned out. PEACH

Bump. Not sure if this got seen since it was the final post last page.

[Damon_Tor]

Bump. Not sure if this got seen since it was the final post last page.

I like it, it's probably my favorite so far. The simplicity of the system is good: I feel like complexity is looking like a challenge in this particular topic given the pressure to design a robust "system", but you've avoided it well without sacrificing the core of the theme. I could easily see a reverse ability, where a paladin could accrue good boy points for healing with his spell slots which he could then apply to his attacks like a smite.

I have some balance concerns, but I haven't had a chance to sit down and really look at the numbers yet. My gut says that getting a level one spell every time you deal 5 sneak attack damage is probably broken. I'm not sure what would be more appropriate without doing some math. Given an average number of encounters we would want this guy to cast a similar number of spells per day comparable to a 1/3 caster of the same level, so whatever value would give you those numbers is what you should go with.

I'll note that Detect Evil and Good doesn't actually do what it says on the tin anymore, so unless you really want to trick someone into thinking you're a fiend or a celestial, Karma Chameleon doesn't seem very useful.

[sengmeng]

I like it, it's probably my favorite so far. The simplicity of the system is good: I feel like complexity is looking like a challenge in this particular topic given the pressure to design a robust "system", but you've avoided it well without sacrificing the core of the theme. I could easily see a reverse ability, where a paladin could accrue good boy points for healing with his spell slots which he could then apply to his attacks like a smite.

I have some balance concerns, but I haven't had a chance to sit down and really look at the numbers yet. My gut says that getting a level one spell every time you deal 5 sneak attack damage is probably broken. I'm not sure what would be more appropriate without doing some math. Given an average number of encounters we would want this guy to cast a similar number of spells per day comparable to a 1/3 caster of the same level, so whatever value would give you those numbers is what you should go with.

I'll note that Detect Evil and Good doesn't actually do what it says on the tin anymore, so unless you really want to trick someone into thinking you're a fiend or a celestial, Karma Chameleon doesn't seem very useful.

I agree with your concerns for the most part, but the math involved is really simple as it is now. I might trash the spellcasting altogether if I can think of some other abilities.

[Damon_Tor]

I agree with your concerns for the most part, but the math involved is really simple as it is now. I might trash the spellcasting altogether if I can think of some other abilities.

The math is complicated only because its notoriously difficult to balance unlimited abilities against short-rest resources and against long-rest resources.

A rogue deals ~3.5 sneak attack damage in a turn for every two levels in the class. At level 3 that's 7 damage per turn. At ~3 rounds per encounter, that's 2 1st level spells cast per combat, so with just two combats per day that's more than a paladin, artificer or ranger can manage per day at that level. That seems too high to me, especially because the rogue is a martial class, and thus any spellcasting subclasses should probably be balanced as 1/3 casters. I would think 10 bad karma points would be a more appropriate cost per spell-slot level.

But as I said, this sort of balance is challenging. How many combat rounds exist in a given adventuring day can vary wildly from one table to the next, and from one module to another. IMO, assuming an adventuring day of 6 combat encounters of 3 rounds each is appropriate when attempting to balance a daily resource against an unlimited one.

[sengmeng]

The math is complicated only because its notoriously difficult to balance unlimited abilities against short-rest resources and against long-rest resources.

A rogue deals ~3.5 sneak attack damage in a turn for every two levels in the class. At level 3 that's 7 damage per turn. At ~3 rounds per encounter, that's 2 1st level spells cast per combat, so with just two combats per day that's more than a paladin, artificer or ranger can manage per day at that level. That seems too high to me, especially because the rogue is a martial class, and thus any spellcasting subclasses should probably be balanced as 1/3 casters. I would think 10 bad karma points would be a more appropriate cost per spell-slot level.

But as I said, this sort of balance is challenging. How many combat rounds exist in a given adventuring day can vary wildly from one table to the next, and from one module to another. IMO, assuming an adventuring day of 6 combat encounters of 3 rounds each is appropriate when attempting to balance a daily resource against an unlimited one.

I meant the math the player has to do for bookkeeping. Now I've altered it to have significantly less casting power, but oddly more healing power. I may rein in the healing.

[Damon_Tor]

I meant the math the player has to do for bookkeeping. Now I've altered it to have significantly less casting power, but oddly more healing power. I may rein in the healing.

Spellcasting looks much more balanced now.

You're right, the healing might be a little much right now, but I wouldn't worry about it too much: it costs an action and has a range of touch, which limits its utility.

[CountDVB]

Hope everyone had a good New Year!

Alot of these definitely look interesting

[MoleMage]

Alrighty everyone, I hope you had a good new year! My last week has been a little busy (mostly of the fun kind, fortunately), but I'm going to try to set aside a little time this week to get reviews up. While I'm at it, I'll be trying to think of ideas for an entry of my own. I certainly have enough systems already written, though I may be tempted to ask for permission to adapt someone else's.


While we're in the voting period, there's a couple things I wanted to ask about, regarding potential special rules in contests.

In general, how do people feel about special rules for specific contests?
These can be simple things, like the "I Read This" contest requiring that you specifically name the source of inspiration, or we could do a theme where they are more complicated, like my question below regarding the potential future Subsystems theme. Are they too interruptive? Do they make things more fun? What sort of restrictions should apply before an additional rule is declared?



Subsystems Online is doing consistently well in the theme voting, now in its third consecutive vote as it carried forward on the runner-up rule. For this contest specifically I had a few optional rules ideas, but I obviously don't want to do anything that makes the contest less fun.

All of these rules options hinge on the idea that this contest requires the creation of a new game system, like Battlemaster Maneuvers or Spellcasting in the core book, which the submitted subclass will use.


Option 1: The contest is done as normal.
Option 2: The contest is done as normal. During the voting round, a bonus round is submitted simultaneously in the same thread where in addition to voting for the best subclasses, votes can be made for the best subsystems.
Option 3: A special rule is introduced, allowing players to submit a second subclass which must use the same subsystem. This subclass is not eligible for the initial round of voting, but a bonus round made up of these second classes exists (possibly combined with a second bonus round for subsystems themselves).
Option 4: A special rule is introduced, allowing players to collaborate in teams of up to 3. Members of a team may each submit their own subclass, which must implement a subsystem that the whole team worked on together. Subclasses are voted on individually, while subsystems receive voting in a bonus round. If a subsystem wins, credit goes to all members of that team.
Option 5: Participants are allowed to use a subsystem created by another participant (EDIT: with permission). This works like option 4, but only the original creator of the subsystem gets credit for victories won by their subsystem.
Option 6: A combination of options 3, 4, and 5. No subsystem is allowed to have more than 3 official creators or more than 3 subclasses created for it, but a creator can submit a second class for it, or further participants can receive permission to create an additional class for it. Subsystems can be made by individuals or teams, and receive a bonus voting round. In this one, secondary classes created by a single person would only receive a bonus round if a minimum number existed (otherwise they serve only to showcase the subsystem).


While I'm here, I remembered and used the Search Function to find this discussion from 19 months ago specifically about this contest. Woulda been better if I had remembered that before making the contest, because it's a little late to change the rules on the contest. I like the way the current version is running, besides.

However, I'm now considering opening a mini-contest during voting (so only two weeks instead of the customary four), for anyone who wants to create a different subclass using one of the entries' new systems (obviously only with permission), including the option to create a second subclass for your own new system. Thoughts?

[CountDVB]

Little more than a week left

[nickl_2000]

Little more than a week left

Sorry folks, I haven't been able to find the time to write or review anything this time around. I will be back for the next one and will vote when those are up.

[CountDVB]

Sorry folks, I haven't been able to find the time to write or review anything this time around. I will be back for the next one and will vote when those are up.

No worries! It has been a bit quiet here.

[MoleMage]

Would anyone else like an extension? Time got away from me a bit this month but I would still like to do reviews and make a subclass for this one.

[Damon_Tor]

Would anyone else like an extension? Time got away from me a bit this month but I would still like to do reviews and make a subclass for this one.

I don't need one, but I have no objections. Seconded.

[Twelvetrees]

Would anyone else like an extension? Time got away from me a bit this month but I would still like to do reviews and make a subclass for this one.

Thirded. I think I'll have time to get mine finished before the current deadline, but I could use some more time to get reviews out.

[MoleMage]

Three's the cutoff, two week extension is now in place!

[MoleMage]

Reviews!


Frankly, if I had my druthers, magic users would have more varied mechanics. Everyone being Vancian (even pseudo-Vancian) makes the system a lot cleaner, but I love mechanics.

This is your Song: the 18th level magical secrets would give this subclass the ability to use two (different) 9th level spells each day. No other class has the ability to cast more than one 9th level spell per day (the Cleric can do so once per week, provided their Divine Intervention roll succeeds or they are level 20, I guess).

Actually, other than that I don't have a lot to say here. The mechanic looks fun to use, if a little challenging if you want to cause damage (since you can only use each damage type category once, as I understand it). Overture and Haunting Melody work well to expand the underlying system, and I don't see any overt abuse. It's hard to fit something like this onto the College level progression, so any more would make certain levels feel very bloated.



I really like the flavor of this class, and I enjoy the stance mechanics too. I'm a little sad that there's only one stance for it, but I see how another would get in the way of the theme and features. I would add the ability to

The individual features all look okay to me, though the focus on grappling ironically seems hindered by the limited mobility, since you can't really drag people around very easily (on the other hand, you can shove whatever you want with a +10 to Str checks once you get Earthroot Chakra and max Wis). Muladhara Binding looks hilarious, just the idea of grabbing guys and chucking them at other guys is a really iconic adventure story thing that 5e really doesn't have a good way to model, until now.

Incidentally, would you mind if I used the Stance mechanic in an entry of my own? I'm curious about trying to expand it.



You know, until you wrote this I had forgotten about 3.5's fleshgrafts. I assume they were in the inspiration.

Grafting: You have an optional sidebar about not gaining infusions in exchange for gaining grafts (seemingly in case the grafts seem too powerful). As an alternative, you could allow infusions as normal, but make it so that Grafts count against your infusion limit (with their own stricter limit on top of it, and correspondingly higher power).
Gaining a Graft: Generally 5e measures monsters against their Challenge, rather than their Hit Dice like 3.5 did. Other than that, this seems fine, if a little dependent on your DM being forgiving. An ability that allows you to preserve a limited number of grafts would be nice, though perhaps too strong.

The Grafts: I would add an extra line so they read:


Graft Name
Graft Type
Location:
Donor Creature:
Description of the graft and its effects.

The current wording makes it hard to tell whether the Donor is specific or general (for example, the first sentence of Keen Sense makes it seem like you need parts from specific creatures, while the second and fourth suggest that any creature is acceptable provided it has the right trait).

Other than that, I think you have a solid start, though you have your work cut out for you filling the graft list.



I think the features of the class function mechanically, but I have two slight gripes. The first is balance-based. The Atoner can essentially produce karma points indefinitely provided he can Sneak Attack creatures. While this puts a practical limitation on the short term frequency, it also suffers from the "bag of rats" problem. The rate of gain is also a little too high relative to the usability (a 9th level Atoner can cast a 1st level spell basically every other round, or every round if it's a bonus action to cast).

The other gripe is that there's no way to get good karma!

As a more specific note, Karma Chameleon does very little unless your rogue is already some sort of extraplanar entity. In 5e, there aren't any core features that detect alignment, or any at all that I know of other than some artifact weapons not functioning for certain alignments. The second part of it is powerful enough to maybe count as a whole feature by itself, and I guess you could technically use it as written to appear as a celestial being to paladins and spellcasters.



There are a lot of different mechanics here, so I'm not entirely clear on what is supposed to be the transferrable subsystem. Is it adding extra effects to tool sets? The Wild Card system looks pretty nifty and I could see expanding that, but that's not even a guaranteed feature.

Loaded Dice: I like that the number scales with Proficiency, but the limit per use does not; proficiency scaling is clean but dangerous for multiclassing abuse, this mitigates that significantly.
Dragonchess--Sylph: The range on this is perhaps more limiting than it needs to be for its effect (predictive defenses are hard enough to use already, and this feature does nothing if nothing explodes during that round).

Hallowed Fortune: This isn't Potent Cantrips nor Divine Strike, but it fills the same niche so I'll let it slide (for now).
Sanctified Wild Card: I really like transformation capstones, so this gets a pass in my book. The fact that it refreshes your special mechanics is nice too, because it means that the cleric isn't likely to nova with it early on, creating a more tactical mindset to it.

Overall it looks like a fun domain, but I'm not seeing what the subsystem is supposed to be here.


Anti-mage, Jade Phoenix Magic, and Beast Spirit reviews planned for tomorrow!

[BerzerkerUnit]

Reviews!


Frankly, if I had my druthers, magic users would have more varied mechanics. Everyone being Vancian (even pseudo-Vancian) makes the system a lot cleaner, but I love mechanics.

This is your Song: the 18th level magical secrets would give this subclass the ability to use two (different) 9th level spells each day. No other class has the ability to cast more than one 9th level spell per day (the Cleric can do so once per week, provided their Divine Intervention roll succeeds or they are level 20, I guess).

Actually, other than that I don't have a lot to say here. The mechanic looks fun to use, if a little challenging if you want to cause damage (since you can only use each damage type category once, as I understand it). Overture and Haunting Melody work well to expand the underlying system, and I don't see any overt abuse. It's hard to fit something like this onto the College level progression, so any more would make certain levels feel very bloated.


Thanks so much for the feedback!

2 9th level castings is an unexpected interaction, but since you can’t pick the same one twice I think double wishes is about the only thing you’d really need to look out for at that level. You trade away a lot of oomph for the versatility Works of Art represent.

About Works, damage type is limited only by amount of passion, it’s the Conditions like Prone, Poisoned etc that you need to rest before using again.

While I don’t go into it bc it’s intended to be a system of personal expression, I think of damage types as colors or keys, so while an artist might have a Blue Period (all Cold damage), or an album in Minor E (all Psychic damage), they will change up subjects and technique or instruments and lyrics (the conditions).

[Damon_Tor]

I really like the flavor of this class, and I enjoy the stance mechanics too. I'm a little sad that there's only one stance for it, but I see how another would get in the way of the theme and features. I would add the ability to

The individual features all look okay to me, though the focus on grappling ironically seems hindered by the limited mobility, since you can't really drag people around very easily (on the other hand, you can shove whatever you want with a +10 to Str checks once you get Earthroot Chakra and max Wis). Muladhara Binding looks hilarious, just the idea of grabbing guys and chucking them at other guys is a really iconic adventure story thing that 5e really doesn't have a good way to model, until now.

Incidentally, would you mind if I used the Stance mechanic in an entry of my own? I'm curious about trying to expand it.


The depth of your stance is meant to be a tactical consideration. You'll need depth 4 or 5 to wrestle the tarrasque, but for dragging the enemy archmage back into the anti-magic field that would be overkill. Also, from a balance perspective, consider that monks can do things like dash as a bonus action, so putting some limits on a monk designed to be top-tier grapplers seemed like a good idea; I'm not a stranger (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624030-The-Hextuple-Psychic-Piledriver-Or-how-to-wield-THE-PLANET-as-a-20d6-weapon) to the balance problems that can arise from grappling builds. (EDIT: misremembered my own stance penalty for a minute there)

Yes please, I'm happy to let you use the stance mechanic. :smile:

[MoleMage]

The use of spell slots for effects other than spells is pretty cool, but I think the real draw here is Arcane Resistance; it would be cool to lean into this new-to-5e "if you have spell slots remaining" mechanic.

Martial Training: It should probably specify that it also grants light armor proficiency, if we follow traditional wording design. Unless it actually doesn't, in which case it should definitely specify that.
Nullify Magic: This comes three full levels before the actual Counterspell spell, but it's an action instead of a reaction, so it's probably okay. I might make it a Spellcasting Ability Check instead of a Wisdom Saving Throw, though it's probably fine without that change.

Arch Anti-mage: The Surged Strike description should either read "two/three additional attacks" or "you can make three/four total attacks". Right now it seems like you're getting three/four extra attacks. It should also specify whether all attacks get the bonus damage or just one (I assume all of them).

I rather like it. It's an extremely nontraditional use of the wizard base class, but I think you've got enough going on here that a character who builds this way is going to feel like they still have stuff to do, especially when fighting spellcasters (which is the whole point, right?).



Oh man, I remember that Martial Adept. It was such a cool adaptation. Good to see it renewed again.

I also want to say how happy I am to see you've made a full-progression class in one mechanic (spellcasting) with a partial-progression subclass in another (Initiating) because pretty much every time I design a new mechanic (I'm up to four, each with at least one full progression class, I think?) I want to do that too. I mentioned on a previous review that I want a version of 5e with more than one power mechanic and hybrid (sub)classes like that would be key to making it really cool.

Looking at it, it looks like this is actually a half-progression instead of one-third progression. That may be a little too much power. It's hard to say for sure without testing it (since you're still battling the action economy and Arcane Escalation burns through your spell slots if you want to initiate strongly), but my gut says one-third would be a more ideal target.

2nd level is pretty slim by necessity, since you need to fit in the whole new mechanic. Arcane Escalation is an excellent hybridizing feature, exactly what I want to see from this sort of subclass.

6th level: The Greater stance benefits for both of the unique stances are seriously strong, but I also notice that you can't even maintain a Greater stance without burning a slot every turn until 20th level, so I guess it's not unreasonable.

10th level: Quickening Strike worries me a little bit since maneuver dice are essentially a free resource. The other two seem more okay since they don't mess with the as-they-say action economy.

At a few points throughout, you specify some variant of "spells, but not cantrips". There's wording used in a handful of places in the PHB (I know for sure Wild Magic Sorcerer) that says "spell of 1st level or higher". You could also use the slightly wordier "expend a spell slot to cast a spell" if the goal is to make it resource-limited (since Signature Spell exists for Wizards).

Emerald Immolation: It's a better return than most actual uses of a 7th-level spell, but only just. Again I'd have to see it in play to be sure.

Overall, it's faithful to the original mechanic and expands on it logically, but I'm a little worried about its ability to go resource-hog compared to a normal wizard. It has more resources and too many of its features revolve around giving it ways to dump them more quickly. I'd look at some of them and find ways to encourage alternating resources instead (like Empowering/Heightening strike already do). Would definitely play if given the opportunity though.



It looks like the Subsystem for this one is the pet mechanic used by UA Drakewarden? A solid pick, functional pet mechanics are hard to pull off in 5e for some reason.

Spirit Form: These stats seem really high to me, especially the Armor Class and the 6-level early fly speed (the swim speed restriction is less egregious). If you pick an owl, you've turned a 1 HP creature into a basically-untouchable flying greatsword (owls get Flyby, and with the extra AC and HP you can still shrug off at least a couple ranged attacks).

Animal Spirit: Does this consume a resource? As written you can just resummon this as an action to restore it to full HP at will. I would either make it cost a resource (wild shape or spell slots) or require that you summon it during a rest.

Enhanced Spirit: this is fine. You have a specialized form, now you have a big specialized form.

Spirit Calling: It looks okay (not any stronger than say, Conjure Woodland Beings, other than the lack of concentration), but it should have some more details about how you interact with the extra pets; for example, when I command my Animal Spirit with a bonus action do all of them receive the same command or can each one do something different?

Master of Spirit: I assume the effects of increasing the size of your spirit animal(s) are the same as the effects of Enhanced Spirit (less the magic attacks)? Should probably specify that here.

Overall, I think it's a little too strong. The stats on spirit form are too high, a fully scaled pet on top of that, and the 9 levels of spellcasting with really solid options like Call Lightning all come together to make this feel more like the 3.5 druid's level of power. The idea seems good though.

[Ilerien]

Oh man, I remember that Martial Adept. It was such a cool adaptation. Good to see it renewed again.

I also want to say how happy I am to see you've made a full-progression class in one mechanic (spellcasting) with a partial-progression subclass in another (Initiating) because pretty much every time I design a new mechanic (I'm up to four, each with at least one full progression class, I think?) I want to do that too. I mentioned on a previous review that I want a version of 5e with more than one power mechanic and hybrid (sub)classes like that would be key to making it really cool.

Looking at it, it looks like this is actually a half-progression instead of one-third progression. That may be a little too much power. It's hard to say for sure without testing it (since you're still battling the action economy and Arcane Escalation burns through your spell slots if you want to initiate strongly), but my gut says one-third would be a more ideal target.

2nd level is pretty slim by necessity, since you need to fit in the whole new mechanic. Arcane Escalation is an excellent hybridizing feature, exactly what I want to see from this sort of subclass.

6th level: The Greater stance benefits for both of the unique stances are seriously strong, but I also notice that you can't even maintain a Greater stance without burning a slot every turn until 20th level, so I guess it's not unreasonable.

10th level: Quickening Strike worries me a little bit since maneuver dice are essentially a free resource. The other two seem more okay since they don't mess with the as-they-say action economy.

At a few points throughout, you specify some variant of "spells, but not cantrips". There's wording used in a handful of places in the PHB (I know for sure Wild Magic Sorcerer) that says "spell of 1st level or higher". You could also use the slightly wordier "expend a spell slot to cast a spell" if the goal is to make it resource-limited (since Signature Spell exists for Wizards).

Emerald Immolation: It's a better return than most actual uses of a 7th-level spell, but only just. Again I'd have to see it in play to be sure.

Overall, it's faithful to the original mechanic and expands on it logically, but I'm a little worried about its ability to go resource-hog compared to a normal wizard. It has more resources and too many of its features revolve around giving it ways to dump them more quickly. I'd look at some of them and find ways to encourage alternating resources instead (like Empowering/Heightening strike already do). Would definitely play if given the opportunity though.


My sincere gratitude for the review! :smallsmile:

Loved this maneuver mechanic at the first sight, tbh :D

Half-progression is indeed a bit strong, but numbers just don't add up if maneuver dice progression is slowed down. There are two core points: the ability to match full Martial Adept initiating power at any level by expending a slot of appropriate level; the ability to maintain a greater stance at 20th level without burning through spell slots, sort of an implicit capstone.
I don't think Quickening Strike is an issue. Consider that you have to 1) have a strike/dash readied, and regaining maneuvers puts additional strain on your action economy; 2) deal damage with it meaning you have to hit with a melee weapon attack except the strike from Desert Wind; 3) divide your limited maneuver dice between the maneuver itself and a spell you want to quicken which still consumes a spell slot in addition to maneuver dice (unless it's a signature spell), or quicken a cantrip which isn't a big deal.

Emerald Immolation is usable once per long rest and is sort of situational: do you really want to nova everything around yourself at the cost of removing yourself from combat for several rounds? It's fairly useful to get rid of annoying poisoned condition with a long duration outside of combat or just heal yourself without expending hit dice.

Wording could use some improvements indeed, I'll make them shortly. :)

[RickAsWritten]

The use of spell slots for effects other than spells is pretty cool, but I think the real draw here is Arcane Resistance; it would be cool to lean into this new-to-5e "if you have spell slots remaining" mechanic.

Martial Training: It should probably specify that it also grants light armor proficiency, if we follow traditional wording design. Unless it actually doesn't, in which case it should definitely specify that.
Nullify Magic: This comes three full levels before the actual Counterspell spell, but it's an action instead of a reaction, so it's probably okay. I might make it a Spellcasting Ability Check instead of a Wisdom Saving Throw, though it's probably fine without that change.

Arch Anti-mage: The Surged Strike description should either read "two/three additional attacks" or "you can make three/four total attacks". Right now it seems like you're getting three/four extra attacks. It should also specify whether all attacks get the bonus damage or just one (I assume all of them).

I rather like it. It's an extremely nontraditional use of the wizard base class, but I think you've got enough going on here that a character who builds this way is going to feel like they still have stuff to do, especially when fighting spellcasters (which is the whole point, right?).


Thanks for the feedback. Made a bunch of changes based on your suggestions. See spoiler.

Added light armor proficiency
Changed Surged Strike and its upgrade to better match existing WoTC wording
Added several instances of the "while you have spell slots remaining" mechanic
Changed the flavor text
Added bonus ability to Signature Spell replacement
Added phrasing to to limit some feats
Added limited 10th level aura to Arcane Resistance.


And here's a link to the thread since it has become buried on the second page.
D&D Subclass Contest XX: Subsystems Online (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624341-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XX-Subsystems-Online&p=24857338&viewfull=1#post24857338)

[CountDVB]

Thanks, @MoleMage. I wasn't sure much on this so I tried using the game-based subsystem of the Wild Card subclass for it.

[Damon_Tor]

Stormscar Fighter
(Using Damon_Tor's stance mechanic)
You have faced the storm, and you know its dangers.

To certain cultures, the weather represents the largest threat to their livelihood, worse even than monsters, bandits, or the drums of war. In those places, the greatest warriors prove themselves by facing down the storm, or the tornado, or the crashing waves of a typhoon. Some special few not only survive, but develop understanding of the storm, and learn to harness the lashing winds or cracking thunder.

Neat! I love this concept, it's very similar conceptually to the storm herald barbarian. I like subclasses that are supernatural without being "spellcasters" and this works well.


Stormscar Stances
When you first take this archetype at 3rd level, you learn to channel the fury of the storm through two different stances: the Cutting Gale stance and the Crashing Thunder stance. Once on each of your turns, you can choose to enter a stance if you are not already in one, or to deepen your current stance by one level if you are. A stance has a depth of 1 when you enter it and has a maximum depth equal to your Wisdom modifier. Every level of depth in a stance gives different cumulative effects.

You can end a stance on your turn instead of deepening it. You cannot enter a new stance on the same turn you end it, and each stance has a unique penalty on the turn that you end it.

"You cannot enter a new stance on the same turn you end a stance" is probably a good general rule going forward.

This is a great take on the system, exactly the sort of thing I had in mind.


Cutting Gale Stance
The cutting gale surrounds you, protecting you as long as you respect its dangerous winds.
While in the cutting gale stance, you gain the following effects:

Your melee slashing weapons can make ranged attacks against targets up to 20 feet away times your depth in this stance
Your armor class against ranged attacks increases by 1
As a reaction when attacked in melee, you can cause your attacker to take 1d6 slashing damage per two levels of depth in this stance
If you move more than half your speed on your turn, you take 1d6 slashing damage per level of depth in this stance, as you outpace the dangerous gale you have formed around yourself.


When you exit the cutting gale stance, you are blinded until the start of your next turn, as the winds lash at your face.

A more interesting mobility limiter than the one I came up with, I admit.

I'm a little confused how the ranged attacks are supposed to work: if you're throwing the weapon (and it returning to you) it should say so. There are rules issues which crop up if you aren't using the thrown property: for example, as you have it written, using this ability with a longsword would have to use dexterity instead of strength for the attack and damage roll because it's an aspect of the thrown property that allows a thrown melee weapon to use strength for a ranged attack.

I would write this as "Your slashing melee weapons have the thrown property with a normal range equal to 20 feet times your depth in this stance. The weapons return to your hand after you throw them."


Crashing Thunder Stance
You focus your efforts on breaking down a creature through repeated blows. When you attack a creature for the first time while in crashing thunder stance, it becomes your focused target. You may only have one focused target; attacking a different creature causes that creature to become your focused target. Some of this stance's benefits deal with your focused target.
While in crashing thunder stance, you gain the following effects:

Your melee weapon attacks deal 1 additional thunder damage to your focused target.
You ignore up to 5 feet of difficult terrain each turn
Your armor class against attacks made by your focused target is increased by 1 per two levels of depth in this stance
When you attack a new creature for the first time, before it becomes your focused target, you deal 1d6 reduced damage to that creature with that attack per level of depth in this stance



When you exit the crashing thunder stance, all of your weapon attacks deal 1d4 reduced damage until the end of your next turn, as your focused energies dissipate.

Excellent.


Stormchaser
At 7th level, natural storms do not reduce your or your companions' overland traveling speed, and you never suffer disadvantage on melee or ranged attacks due to high wind or stormy weather.

Pretty niche, but flavorful (and in keeping with the ribbony 7th level features other fighters get). Maybe add to the travel time clause a provision which protects ships you're on board from the negative effects of stormy weather? In my experience it's aboard ships where DMs are most likely to try to use weather to mess with you.


Stance Mastery
At 10th level, you can enter a new stance on the same turn that you exit a different stance. You cannot re-enter the same stance that you just left using this feature.

I'm not sure how exciting of a feature this is going to be. You're penalized pretty heavily for exiting your stances, so it's not going to be something you're going to want to do very often, and even with this ability you're going to want to pick a stance and stick with it for each encounter whenever possible. Maybe give them the ability to ignore a stance-end penalty 1/short rest or something?


Wind Dancer
At 15th level, you have a fly speed equal to your land speed plus ten, but you must touch solid ground at least once on each of your turns in order to stay aloft.

A very neat flight ability. Feels similar to the "end your turn on the ground or you fall" versions, but is more useful and elegant.


Perfected Stances
At 18th level, your maximum depth with all stances increases by 1. In addition, you can choose to increase your depth by 2 or decrease your depth by 1 whenever you could increase the depth of a stance you are in.

Solid capstone.

[Twelvetrees]

Loan Shark is up. Ugh, that took me much longer than I thought it would. :smallannoyed:

We'll see if I have any time to make comments on the others before the deadline.

[Damon_Tor]

Loan Shark

Rogue Subclass

You've got so many gifts to share with everyone! They'll have to pay you back with interest, of course, but there's no need to worry about that now. You there! You've always wanted to understand Giant, right? Of course you have! Trade in your athletic ability and start speaking with Storm Giants today! They'll surely want to be your friend and take you on all sorts of journeys as they traverse their ocean homes!

General overview: this scores highly on my "would you play it" metric. It looks like fun. And I'd love to understand how you see this working from a lore perspective. That said, I have a little trouble seeing how it fits the chosen theme. It's a good system and I like it, but I'm not sure how well it would work for another subclass unless it was just the same concept on a different chassis.

Everything to follow is quibbles.


Smooth Talker
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in the Deception skill if you don't already have it. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses that proficiency. Alternatively, you learn two languages of your choice.

I have a hard time with features like these: it feels to me like a rogue playing the conman archetype is already likely to have proficiency and expertise in deception, and in general "more proficiencies and expertises from the rogue list" isn't very exciting. Two languages as a consolation prize feels meh. Of course this isn't your only 3rd level ability, so it's free to be ribbony, but IMO ribbons should be more interesting than slightly expanding existing class features.


Loan the Intangible
Starting at 3rd level, you gain the ability to lend moments of great capability to others. To do so, you use a bonus action on your turn to choose one willing creature other than yourself within 60 feet of you who can see or hear you. That creature gains one Intangible Loan, the benefit of which you choose from the table below. You can give out Intangible Loans a number of times equal to your Dexterity modifier (a minimum of once). You regain any expended uses when you finish a long rest.

The chosen creature then owes you one Debt, which you can use to gain a benefit of your choice from the second table. All Debts are removed when you finish a long rest. Using a Debt restores one use of an Intangible Loan.

I feel like this should be tied to cha, not dex. Rogues are already some of the SADest builds, so it bugs me a little when a subclass links magicy stuff to dex.

I would also limit this to humanoids. I feel like there are probably unintended interactions with familiars and other disposables which would be easily circumvented by adding that limit.




Intangible Loans


The creature's speed increases by 30 feet during its next turn


The creature gains proficiency in Dexterity (Stealth) checks for 1 minute


The creature can speak and understand Thieves' Cant for 1 hour


The creature is invisible for the duration of their next turn


The creature gains temporary hit points equal to your level


The creature can use a bonus action on their turn to teleport, switching places with you


If the creature succeeds on a Charisma check during a social interaction within the next 10 minutes, the creature they are interacting with is charmed by them for 1 hour


The creature can see from any location within 10 feet of their physical location for 1 minute


The creature can speak and understand any language you know for 1 hour


The creature gains proficiency in Wisdom (Insight) checks for 1 minute


The creature gains a climb speed equal to their walking speed for 1 minute


The creature gains darkvision out to a range of 60 feet for 1 hour



These are neat.

The bonus action teleport needs to say "The creature can use a bonus action on their next turn to teleport" Otherwise the ability is a bit too open ended, and the swap could happen hours later.

[quote]

Debts


When spending hit dice to heal, you can remove one Debt to use the hit dice of the creature that owes you the Debt in addition to your own hit dice, up to a number equal to your Dexterity modifier


When you make an attack, you can remove one Debt to gain advantage on the attack. The creature whose Debt you removed has disadvantage on their next attack roll


You can remove one Debt as a bonus action to gain proficiency in one skill the creature whose Debt you removed is proficient in. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses the chosen skill. This proficiency lasts for 1 hour and for the duration, the creature whose Debt you removed loses their proficiency in the skill.


You can remove one Debt as a reaction when you fail a saving throw against a spell. You are the creature whose Debt you removed teleport, swapping places, and that creature receives the effects of the failed saving throw.


You can remove one Debt as an action to see through the eyes of the creature you removed the Debt from for 1 minute. For the duration, the creature whose eyes you look through has disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) and Intelligence (Investigation) checks. Your own ability to make these checks while looking through their eyes is unimpeded.


You can remove one Debt at the start of your turn to double your speed for 1 minute. The creature whose Debt you removed has their speed halved for the same duration.



Also neat

I have some concerns about the efficacy of the teleportation: the debt can be called in hours later, so I feel like there needs to be some kind of distance limitation to prevent this from being used as an extremely efficient means of travel (especially when combined with a familiar who can carry the debt). There are also major issues with this ability and the capstone (see below) that a distance limitation would mitigate.


Debts Must Be Paid
At 9th level, you gain another use for the Debts you are owed. If you are owed at least one Debt, when you are reduced to 0 hit points you can drop to 1 hit point instead. Choose one of the creatures that owes you a Debt and remove one Debt from them. That creature then takes all of the damage you would have taken in excess of the damage that reduced you to 1 hit point.

I like it.


Offer Many Loans
At 13th level, when you use Loan the Intangible, you can choose two willing creatures within 60 feet of you and can choose different benefits for both. As normal, both creatures will owe you a Debt.

I'm not sure if this doubles the number of loans you can make in a day. If so, it seems rather strong. If not, it seems rather weak.


Sell to Anyone
When you reach 17th level, the creatures you target with Loan the Intangible no longer have to be willing targets.

Yeah, that's going to need some kind of a check and balance. Because this gives you the ability to (as one example) teleport someone into a volcano miles away while forcing them to fail a save vs your wizard friend's spell of choice hours after you meet them and from miles away and without a save.

IMO, give them a wis save against 8+cha+prof when you attempt to use it against an unwilling target.

[sengmeng]

Well, I made some last minute adjustments to the Atoner rogue. The bag of rats problem is sort of solved: you can't gain more than the hitpoints the target had before the sneak attack, and also it has to drop the enemy to zero, and you still gain no more than half your sneak attack damage. You can also gain good karma now, and some subclass features only function while your karma is bad, and others only while it is good. Good luck on final revisions!

[MoleMage]

Neat! I love this concept, it's very similar conceptually to the storm herald barbarian. I like subclasses that are supernatural without being "spellcasters" and this works well.



"You cannot enter a new stance on the same turn you end a stance" is probably a good general rule going forward.

This is a great take on the system, exactly the sort of thing I had in mind.



A more interesting mobility limiter than the one I came up with, I admit.

I'm a little confused how the ranged attacks are supposed to work: if you're throwing the weapon (and it returning to you) it should say so. There are rules issues which crop up if you aren't using the thrown property: for example, as you have it written, using this ability with a longsword would have to use dexterity instead of strength for the attack and damage roll because it's an aspect of the thrown property that allows a thrown melee weapon to use strength for a ranged attack.

I would write this as "Your slashing melee weapons have the thrown property with a normal range equal to 20 feet times your depth in this stance. The weapons return to your hand after you throw them."



Excellent.



Pretty niche, but flavorful (and in keeping with the ribbony 7th level features other fighters get). Maybe add to the travel time clause a provision which protects ships you're on board from the negative effects of stormy weather? In my experience it's aboard ships where DMs are most likely to try to use weather to mess with you.



I'm not sure how exciting of a feature this is going to be. You're penalized pretty heavily for exiting your stances, so it's not going to be something you're going to want to do very often, and even with this ability you're going to want to pick a stance and stick with it for each encounter whenever possible. Maybe give them the ability to ignore a stance-end penalty 1/short rest or something?



A very neat flight ability. Feels similar to the "end your turn on the ground or you fall" versions, but is more useful and elegant.



Solid capstone.

Thanks for the feedback!

I added some clumsy wording on the ranged attacks. I was imagining slicing wind blades being launched by the weapon when I originally wrote it, but they should be possible with Strength or Dexterity. Added the "ignore exit penalty" clause to Stance Mastery and Stormchaser now also applies while traveling on a ship.

[MoleMage]

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?626392-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XX-Voting-Thread&p=24909996#post24909996

Voting time is upon us! Go cast your votes!

[nickl_2000]

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?626392-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XX-Voting-Thread&p=24909996#post24909996

Voting time is upon us! Go cast your votes!

Looking forward to looking over everyone's entries. It will be a fresh look through of everything. I will try and get a vote out tomorrow.

[Twelvetrees]

General overview: this scores highly on my "would you play it" metric. It looks like fun. And I'd love to understand how you see this working from a lore perspective. That said, I have a little trouble seeing how it fits the chosen theme. It's a good system and I like it, but I'm not sure how well it would work for another subclass unless it was just the same concept on a different chassis.

Thanks for the comments. :smallsmile:

My original intention had been for Intangible Loans to allow for the loaning of class features, but that idea slipped away from me by the time I had finished it. You're completely right about the capstone. If I had more time before the deadline I would have liked to revise some of the effects.

[RickAsWritten]

Don't forget to de your civic duty everyone. Only a few days until the contest closes.

And a reminder: you don't have to have made an entry to vote (or give feedback in this thread). We are a chill and open community, and are happy to help anyone that wants to jump into the (highly)addicting world of homebrewing, or to improve their homebrewing skills.

[CountDVB]

Don't forget to de your civic duty everyone. Only a few days until the contest closes.

And a reminder: you don't have to have made an entry to vote (or give feedback in this thread). We are a chill and open community, and are happy to help anyone that wants to jump into the (highly)addicting world of homebrewing, or to improve their homebrewing skills.

I wonder how many people aren't aware of that...

[Ilerien]

And a reminder: you don't have to have made an entry to vote (or give feedback in this thread). We are a chill and open community, and are happy to help anyone that wants to jump into the (highly)addicting world of homebrewing, or to improve their homebrewing skills.It's indeed kinda sad to see there are many people interested in homebrew (judging by this subforum activity), but not participating in voting. :smallfrown:

[MoleMage]

Alright votes are tallied up, and the point differences were narrow this time, with only one point here or there making the difference!

Our third place winner, with 7 points earned, we have Twelvetrees's Loan Shark Rogue! Share intangible abilities, then call the loan due at the right time!

In second place, with 8 points earned, we have MoleMage's Stormscar Fighter. Slashing winds and crashing thunder are your weapons, but be careful because they can hurt you too if misused!

In first place, with 9 points earned (all of them top pick points), we have Damon_Tor's Way of the Stone Foot. Suplex a dragon! Become very heavy, but remember that anchoring yourself to the ground can work against you.

The next contest was set in digital stone already, and I put the thread up earlier. Check out Contest XXI: I Read this in a Book Once II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?627103-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XXI-I-Read-this-in-a-Book-Once-II&p=24930342#post24930342)!

Voting has concluded and the new contest is up! I look forward to seeing what sorts of borrowed media we end up with this time.

[Damon_Tor]

Well, knowing the theme ahead of time, I've been working on this for weeks already, so the Path of the Titan (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24930525&postcount=2) is ready for critique.

[nickl_2000]

It's indeed kinda sad to see there are many people interested in homebrew (judging by this subforum activity), but not participating in voting. :smallfrown:

It's pretty typical, although there was a higher bar on reviewing and voting in this contest than there has been in other ones. Since several of them were utilizing things from other homebrew classes and subclasses you needed to read more than just the entry, but also the things that the entry is coming from. That is what got in the way for me when I looked at voting. So, I put it off thinking I would do it later. Well it's later and I missed voting completely.

[nickl_2000]

Wow I have absolutely no idea why I'm struggling to get excited about an idea. I've had several ones where I've got "ohhh, I like that" oh it's already been done by the Inquisitive Rogue or Beast Barbarian or something else.

[CountDVB]

I have two ideas for this. One is a serious one, the other... I do not allow if I am allowed to do it, though part of me still wants to do so for the chutzpah of it.

Who should I ask if I should try or should I go and make it anyway?

[nickl_2000]

I have two ideas for this. One is a serious one, the other... I do not allow if I am allowed to do it, though part of me still wants to do so for the chutzpah of it.

Who should I ask if I should try or should I go and make it anyway?

PM/DM/ Whatever Message MoleMage.

[CountDVB]

Went with my first idea, enjoy! Cue the awesome intro!

[Phhase]

Kept you waiting, huh? Pyromaniac Sorcerer is up! Feedback!


Titan's Grip - I love the support for dual wielding heavy weapons, but maybe categorize by the two-handed property rather than the damage dice? If you can dual wield lances unmounted, why not glaives? Also love the support for weapon summon abilities. I just in general love when subclasses take abilities outside of immediate context into proper consideration.

Argaen Forge - It seems a little odd to have an entire level dedicated to giving yourself the ability to access your class's required tools. Don't get me wrong, I LIKE this - it's great to have the option to simply upgrade what you have rather than having to go bargain hunting for exactly what you need. But the second clause has me a little confused. The ability to do a full week's labor in a day, with no limiters except an exhaustion point? If it's as universally applicable as it sounds, then that means with a few artificer levels, you have a magic item manufactorium with an absolutely massive 7x speed boost. I like the sound of it - just be sure you're ok with having a universal 7x crafting speed boost on demand.


Destroyer - Hm. The feature is fine, it just highlights for me that it seems odd that you're normally completely unable to attack at all with a large weapon while not raging. This feature also gives no combat bonuses, so be sure you're ok with the only combat capabilities granted over ten levels being a few more damage dice with a weapon that is only situationally even usable, and even then with an attack penalty.

Titanic Mastery - Seems odd that this is the capstone rather than the first benefit. Other than that, they look like fun options. Does Titan Sweep make you attack EVERY creature in your reach, including allies? And it seems odd to me that one would consider the cover granted by enemies in the way when throwing a massive weapon at all, and the kill clause is also very situational. Instead, consider forcing each creature hit to make a Strength save or be shoved into an adjacent square by the impact. If a creature makes their save, the attack against the next creature in the line is at -1 (stacking as one goes).

Have your read the Path of Unshackled Steel barbarian subclass? It does something very, very similar to this, but approaches it from a different angle. It does some things better, and other things worse, I recommend reading it if you haven't already.




Collection of tomes - love the support for options like Mage Hand. I also find the flavor of always having a relevant book immediately on hand, no matter the subject, to be absolutely hilarious (whips out book of 101 pickup lines).

Loose Character - Cool idea! I'm just a bit confused by the death clause, are these magical constructs, or actual people? And how long do they last? Do they require upkeep? Permanent seems a bit odd.

Heroism and villany - What's the difference between protag and antag?

Worlds Collide - Interesting...

Despite getting the gist of the afterword, I am still of the opinion that it's far too powerful for me to play without feeling guilty about it. Also - couldn't you just write your own little original stories in-universe to have exactly what you need at all times? It feels a little...wrong to just create so much, including life, ex nihilo like this.



Dragon link - Looks good

Draconic Element - Given the existence of gem dragons, you could consider adding sonic, radiant, necrotic, and force as well. The absorption and immunity clauses are a bit strong - could you cast a spell that deals that damage type on yourself to heal/megabuff yourself? Consider Tasha's caustic brew healing you every round for 1 minute. Also, "advantage on casting spells" isn't a thing, but advantage on spell attack rolls is - although I think it's hardly necessary at all, considering everything else. Especially since you could use Scribes Wizard or metamagic to change the element of a spell to conform to your specialty.

Dragon's roar - The sorcery point empowerment clause is very weak (4 points is a steep cost for a measly increase), in contrast to the rest of the feature which I contest is extremely strong. Never underestimate flat damage. Although I'm not sure about spending a sorcery point for this. What if it was proficiency/long rest?

Claws of the elements - Typo: in *tune, not in turn. This is a cool idea for a feature, but the fact that it costs a sorcery point AND concentration AND means you are making a melee attack instead of casting a spell that would probably do more damage, meaning you're a squishy in range of big damage, means that despite the flat damage making it potentially quite strong, especially if combined with Haste or Flurry of Blows, it's really not worth using in my opinion.

Dragon Force - I see what you did there. "Become as if a dragon"? As if a dragon what? Otherwise, seems fine, mostly.

All in all, despite a few wonky balance points to tweak, looks like a cohesive entry! Nice work.

[CountDVB]

Dragon link - Looks good

Draconic Element - Given the existence of gem dragons, you could consider adding sonic, radiant, necrotic, and force as well. The absorption and immunity clauses are a bit strong - could you cast a spell that deals that damage type on yourself to heal/megabuff yourself? Consider Tasha's caustic brew healing you every round for 1 minute. Also, "advantage on casting spells" isn't a thing, but advantage on spell attack rolls is - although I think it's hardly necessary at all, considering everything else. Especially since you could use Scribes Wizard or metamagic to change the element of a spell to conform to your specialty.

Dragon's roar - The sorcery point empowerment clause is very weak (4 points is a steep cost for a measly increase), in contrast to the rest of the feature which I contest is extremely strong. Never underestimate flat damage. Although I'm not sure about spending a sorcery point for this. What if it was proficiency/long rest?

Claws of the elements - Typo: in *tune, not in turn. This is a cool idea for a feature, but the fact that it costs a sorcery point AND concentration AND means you are making a melee attack instead of casting a spell that would probably do more damage, meaning you're a squishy in range of big damage, means that despite the flat damage making it potentially quite strong, especially if combined with Haste or Flurry of Blows, it's really not worth using in my opinion.

Dragon Force - I see what you did there. "Become as if a dragon"? As if a dragon what? Otherwise, seems fine, mostly.

All in all, despite a few wonky balance points to tweak, looks like a cohesive entry! Nice work.


Draconic Element- Gem Dragons I know are in 3e but not really 5e (that I know of except Sapphire dragon) and I was going off of base stuff, hence the notes added about the additional dragon typing and so on I added to there. And them eating the element is a main point of the inspiration. Like, that's one of the core facets, so making it into a spell or something kinda weakens it.

Though I should note that you cannot use your own spell for the feature. Plus if you're unconscious or so on, you can't use this feature.

Dragon's Roar- I might have miscommunicated that. Let's say you use the feature at 20th level. It would normally do 40 damage. However, for each sorcery point you use, it would go up by half your level, so in this, an additional 10 damage. It's just that you have a cap of 4 sorcery points (a total of 5 sorcery points spent) or 40 additional damage for a total of 80 damage on a successful hit or 40 on a partial hit. The extra sorcery points means you're putting extra oomph in it.

Claws of the Elements- Hmmm.... good point. How about needing a bonus action to activate and remaining active for 1 minute before needing to once more?

Dragon Force- It's not a reference to the band XD. It's what the mode is called.And as for what "as if a dragon" was just me trying to dramatically say being as strong as a dragon.

[CountDVB]

Kept you waiting, huh? Pyromaniac Sorcerer is up!

I love it! It looks like alot of fun though I do think you could do something with cold. Maybe you're burning all the heat from them or something with Coldfire or maybe they suffer a temperatue shock explosion from the sudden conversion of hot to cold?

I am surprised you don't have a feature involving the Pyro's Airblast.

[Phhase]

Draconic Element- Gem Dragons I know are in 3e but not really 5e (that I know of except Sapphire dragon) and I was going off of base stuff

That's fair, I just personally like paying homage to cool things from 3.x that were massacred in the transition to 5e (Which is a great many things).


Dragon's Roar- I might have miscommunicated that. Let's say you use the feature at 20th level. It would normally do 40 damage. However, for each sorcery point you use, it would go up by half your level, so in this, an additional 10 damage. It's just that you have a cap of 4 sorcery points (a total of 5 sorcery points spent) or 40 additional damage for a total of 80 damage on a successful hit or 40 on a partial hit. The extra sorcery points means you're putting extra oomph in it.

Oh, I see, I see. Still not quite convinced, though. Is adding 10 (potentially 5) damage to this attack really worth more than, say, twinning Finger of Death? Between the activation point and the boosting (especially considering you have to max level to get 10 damage per extra point) I'm not convinced that metamagic isn't just better.


Claws of the Elements- Hmmm.... good point. How about needing a bonus action to activate and remaining active for 1 minute before needing to once more?



That helps, but it doesn't fix the fact that everything else a 14th level sorcerer can do is a better idea than making a single melee attack. I get that it fits thematically, and I like the idea, but in this form with no support, it's literally a trap. What if instead of an attack enhancer, it was a burst-style ability? Instead of empowering future attacks that you make, use your action to make an Ora-ora style punch rush of empowered attacks immediately, useable x times per y and either a clause to spend sorcery points to use it again when you have no uses or a clause to spend sorcery points to boost the effect when you do use it. Here, how about this:

At 14th level, you can unleash your draconic might in a blur of furious barehanded attacks. As an action while not wielding a weapon or shield, move up to 30ft without provoking attacks of opportunity. Then, make up to 5 melee attacks, split in any fashion against creatures within your reach. These attacks are unarmed strikes, and you are considered proficient with them for this purpose. Each attack is magical and deals 1d4 + your Strength bonus in bludgeoning damage and your Charisma bonus in the associated elemental damage. You can use this ability a number of times equal to your proficiency score per long rest. If you have no uses remaining, you can spend 3 sorcery points to use it again.


I love it! It looks like alot of fun though I do think you could do something with cold. Maybe you're burning all the heat from them or something with Coldfire or maybe they suffer a temperatue shock explosion from the sudden conversion of hot to cold?

I am surprised you don't have a feature involving the Pyro's Airblast.

Thanks! The issue with cold is it would be weird to be dealing damage that was both fire and cold at the same time. It's not that you have the option to change damage type, it's that all of your damage is now dual-typed. Meh. Just me I guess.

Airblast is a good idea, but there are spells like Thunderwave for knockback, and reflecting projectiles is kinda a monk thing already, not to mention weird to fit into a sorcerer's action economy. And reflecting spells is crazy powerful. I prefer the Axtinguisher finishing move, trading the consistent fire damage for a powerful burst that has the potential to finish them, but relies on you hitting a weapon attack.

[CountDVB]

That's fair, I just personally like paying homage to cool things from 3.x that were massacred in the transition to 5e (Which is a great many things).

Oh, I see, I see. Still not quite convinced, though. Is adding 10 (potentially 5) damage to this attack really worth more than, say, twinning Finger of Death? Between the activation point and the boosting (especially considering you have to max level to get 10 damage per extra point) I'm not convinced that metamagic isn't just better.

That helps, but it doesn't fix the fact that everything else a 14th level sorcerer can do is a better idea than making a single melee attack. I get that it fits thematically, and I like the idea, but in this form with no support, it's literally a trap. What if instead of an attack enhancer, it was a burst-style ability? Instead of empowering future attacks that you make, use your action to make an Ora-ora style punch rush of empowered attacks immediately, useable x times per y and either a clause to spend sorcery points to use it again when you have no uses or a clause to spend sorcery points to boost the effect when you do use it. Here, how about this:

At 14th level, you can unleash your draconic might in a blur of furious barehanded attacks. As an action while not wielding a weapon or shield, move up to 30ft without provoking attacks of opportunity. Then, make up to 5 melee attacks, split in any fashion against creatures within your reach. These attacks are unarmed strikes, and you are considered proficient with them for this purpose. Each attack is magical and deals 1d4 + your Strength bonus in bludgeoning damage and your Charisma bonus in the associated elemental damage. You can use this ability a number of times equal to your proficiency score per long rest. If you have no uses remaining, you can spend 3 sorcery points to use it again.


Thanks! The issue with cold is it would be weird to be dealing damage that was both fire and cold at the same time. It's not that you have the option to change damage type, it's that all of your damage is now dual-typed. Meh. Just me I guess.

Airblast is a good idea, but there are spells like Thunderwave for knockback, and reflecting projectiles is kinda a monk thing already, not to mention weird to fit into a sorcerer's action economy. And reflecting spells is crazy powerful. I prefer the Axtinguisher finishing move, trading the consistent fire damage for a powerful burst that has the potential to finish them, but relies on you hitting a weapon attack.

Yeah, I miss the Gem Dragons too. Heck, if we have the sapphire ones, bring everyone else back in.

Fair point on Dragon's Roar there. I'll see what I can figure out.

I actually really like that idea! I'll tweak it a bit (I think you're always proficient in unarmed strikes regardless), but I very much like it (especially since it could be an homage to a scene from the inspiration, when Natsu fought another Dragon slayer for the first time). Thank you very much!

With Airblast, i was more thinking for things like being able to shove friends out of the way from a distance, putting out fires (after all, you gotta put out that amateur stuff/clean up the mess) and maybe the projectile reflection.

[Ilerien]

By the way, is nominating a ported prestige class from D&D 3.5 stretching it?
The class must fit the theme of the contest. For our twenty-first contest, we are revisiting an old theme: Other Media. It doesn't have to be books; movies, music, TV shows, comics, video games, tall tales, mythological figures, even tabletop games that aren't 5e DD&D are all on the table.I have a couple of adaptations I consider quite good that have never been shown to general public (yes, I'm a shameless hoarder of homebrew :D) and a brand new beast I adapted from Dragon Age games specifically for the contest before the thread was created with older editions of D&D allowed (to my genuine surprise! :smallsmile:).

[CountDVB]

I updated Draconic Elementalist to 1.2 with the feedback from some more thinking and especially inspiration from Phhase.

[nickl_2000]

First draft of the Artificer, Battling Bowman is out there and ready for review. I will try and get reviews done tomorrow or monday!

[CountDVB]

First draft of the Artificer, Battling Bowman is out there and ready for review. I will try and get reviews done tomorrow or monday!

I spotted a good chunk of those references XD

Also, Antler Arrow fit in because that Quiver is at least 25% Bag of Holding.

Bowman definitely looks pretty good though I am wondering how well it syncs up with the other Infusions and so on.

[nickl_2000]

And here we go again :)



Don't forget Cloud and Sephiroth as examples from another genre, although you don't need more support for why this is here, you have plenty.

Titan's Grip - I do have some more questions about "large weapons." Do they lose other properties? What is considered finesse for dex attacks or heavy for GWM? Also, as it is right now, you are allowed large bows and crossbows. Is that okay with you?

Argean Forge - I consider this a fluff ability personally. It's cool thematically and theatrically, but really only makes a difference in the character once they pick up a magical weapon (and I imagine that any DM allowing this class would allow you to find mundane large weapons fairly easily). I feel like level 6 needs something else, maybe an extra skill proficiency or something like that.

Destroyer - Again, this is a cool ability but still pretty fluffy. I am not sure about your games, but the attacking on object doesn't happen all that often that an extra levels worth of skills should be devoted to it. I'm not sure what would fit in here best, but you need another minor or circumstantial ability to make level 10 feel worthwhile getting to.

Titan Sweep - This is a brutal ability, especially with a reach weapon (and a Bugbear). Sure it's somewhat edge case, but a Bugbear with an oversized reach weapon can make an attack with the weapon against all creatures and objects in a 15 foot radius. That has potential to be a lot of creatures and a lot of damage each round.

For the level 14 ability, I don't see myself using anything other than Titan Sweep and Titanic Toss. The other two abilities are good, but nothing compared to the effectiveness of those two in normal situations.

As a side note in your Q&A, as a Giant Ape you don't know how to wield weapons. So, it would be cool but still not that effective.

Overall, I think you have a really cool subclass here, it fits well into the Manga/Comic/Video Game/movie trope and fits the theme really well. As I mentioned in the comments, you have a few levels that are pretty dead and should be boosted.






A little bit of bolding would make things a lot easier to read :)

Collection of Tomes - Clarification, is this any ability check that utilizes Wis, Int, or Cha or a direct check against Wis, Int, or Cha? This makes a significant difference since otherwise you are effectively giving expertise on more than half the skills (something terribly broken).

Loose Characters - This is an interesting feature, how do you get rid of someone you summoned? How long do they stay summoned?

As a side note, it is unusual that you don't have a use of bardic inspiration usage at level 3

Worlds Collide - How long does this last? What is stopping you from summoning an area in the center of a volcano and sticking people in there?

You have a good theme going here, but I think it needs to be more fleshed out. More of the how longs and more clarification on what you can exactly do.






Draconic Element - The damage absorption is a problem here that it allows you to gain HP. If you gain HP through fire and an ally has control flames, create bonfire, or any other cantrip that does fire damage you will never not be at full HP. The better way to do this would be to give THP all the time (no matter how many HP you have). Since current THP are replaced with new THP it helps.

-Lightning - How many lightning attack paralyze? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Elemental Dragon’s Roar - I'm not saying it's wrong, but it is odd that you don't have variable damage in this at all. Straight damage is not used all that ften.

Dracoelemental Body - So you AC is now 13+Dex+Cha? Seems like that will end up being pretty high for a sorcerer (as in a minimum of 18 AC in a caster class). Other than the AC change, this seems fine to me.

Dragon Force - This seems fine to me.

There is some overlap with the Draconic Sorcerer, but there is enough of a difference that they feel unique.






Okay, I really like this class, but I think there are a few possible power problems. For one thing, once you hit level 18 you can completely disable pretty much anyone anytime. Each turn you can cast a Flame Missile (magic missile -> fire) and light someone on fire. Since magic missile cannot miss and there is no save against the level 18 ability I can turn 3 people blind every turn with a first level spell. Then, they either stay blind of waste an action suppressing the flames. You have the ability to completely shut a lot of people down with a 1st level spell.

Hungry Plasma seems like the same thing since a -1 to attack and -1 to AC at the start of each round (especially since they can't stop it before the start of each round). All enemies with weapons and armor will lose it on round 5/6 pretty much all the time.

The other issue I see with this class is that all spells at level 1 deal fire damage and it is completely out of your control So, if you run into something immune to fire before level 18, you literally cannot do damage to it and the Elemental Adept (Fire) feat is basically a feat tax for you.




Caught up for now, as soon as I see more entries I will try and do more reviews :)




I spotted a good chunk of those references XD

Also, Antler Arrow fit in because that Quiver is at least 25% Bag of Holding.

Bowman definitely looks pretty good though I am wondering how well it syncs up with the other Infusions and so on.


I took a look at the infusions and don't see anything that will be a substantial problem. The +1 weapon and elemental weapon will help boost damage overall, but not that much really and this is available to everyone. Returning weapon will allows you to use a thrown weapon instead of a bow for this, which makes the subclass fit more overall genres and types. There are things in there that will certainly help this subclass, but nothing that I look and say "this would be amazingly broken"

[Phhase]

Okay, I really like this class, but I think there are a few possible power problems. For one thing, once you hit level 18 you can completely disable pretty much anyone anytime. Each turn you can cast a Flame Missile (magic missile -> fire) and light someone on fire. Since magic missile cannot miss and there is no save against the level 18 ability I can turn 3 people blind every turn with a first level spell. Then, they either stay blind of waste an action suppressing the flames. You have the ability to completely shut a lot of people down with a 1st level spell.

Hungry Plasma seems like the same thing since a -1 to attack and -1 to AC at the start of each round (especially since they can't stop it before the start of each round). All enemies with weapons and armor will lose it on round 5/6 pretty much all the time.

The other issue I see with this class is that all spells at level 1 deal fire damage and it is completely out of your control So, if you run into something immune to fire before level 18, you literally cannot do damage to it and the Elemental Adept (Fire) feat is basically a feat tax for you.




Your point on Hungry Plasma is salient, and I thing I just might make burn damage at the end of turns rather than the beginning. And possibly consider further changes to it after.

Note that blindness doesn't completely shut down all enemies. Enemies that posses blindsight, are immune to being blinded, or that have AOE attacks can still Do Things that aren't extinguish themselves. And if worst comes to worst, if you're in attack range and haven't moved from your tile since last turn, they can still make normal attack rolls at disadvantage on you (assuming that it's an ability that doesn't have a "That you can see" clause). Also note that allies or minor sidekicks/minions can extinguish for them, allowing them to ready their action for when they can see again.

While Magic Missile is powerful in this scenario, it's probably not the most powerful thing that any standard 18th level sorcerer can do.

The "fixed damage type" being a bit of a gimp is intended. The burn effects and the autocrit pseudosmite are VERY strong with the right multiclassing (For example, sneak attack, or Eldritch Smite), so having it keyed off of an inferior damage type is the drawback. And remember, just because they don't take the damage doesn't mean you can't set them on fire, and then Slice the Wick. Hell, some enemies like Fire Elementals probably qualify as Permanently On Fire right from the getgo, opening up Wick Slicing with no setup!

Also, just realized: There's technically no language that prohibits you from changing the damage type of a spell using metamagic! That might help.

[BerzerkerUnit]

And here we go again :)



A little bit of bolding would make things a lot easier to read :)

Collection of Tomes - Clarification, is this any ability check that utilizes Wis, Int, or Cha or a direct check against Wis, Int, or Cha? This makes a significant difference since otherwise you are effectively giving expertise on more than half the skills (something terribly broken).

Loose Characters - This is an interesting feature, how do you get rid of someone you summoned? How long do they stay summoned?

As a side note, it is unusual that you don't have a use of bardic inspiration usage at level 3

Worlds Collide - How long does this last? What is stopping you from summoning an area in the center of a volcano and sticking people in there?

You have a good theme going here, but I think it needs to be more fleshed out. More of the how longs and more clarification on what you can exactly do.





Thanks for the feedback. You aren't creating life, it's more like conjuring someone from an alternate reality. You can get rid of your summons the same ways you can get rid of anyone you don't like, kick to curb and/or murder. I guess you can also summon new people until the one you want gone loses their charmed status and wanders off. Then you're just giving the DM a plot where one of your cast offs Kill Bills you.

This feature was supposed to require bardic inspiration, but because of its relative strength I decided scaling on proficiency was less likely to lead to abuse.

Collection of Tomes was supposed to be expertise on skills you're already proficient in and proficiency in a mental/social ones (a modest benefit given jack of all trades is already giving you half that bonus and only provided you pull out a book (which you might not have access to if you're a hostage, etc. The book would require a free hand, the object interaction to draw, etc, so it's not unlimited use even if there's no cap on its use).

Worlds Collide in a volcano would just wreck an area of the lava as described. If you summon it above the lava and let it drop in I'd think the DM would be well within their rights to say it sinks or breaks apart on impact and rendered to slag

[Damon_Tor]

Titan's Grip - I love the support for dual wielding heavy weapons, but maybe categorize by the two-handed property rather than the damage dice? If you can dual wield lances unmounted, why not glaives? Also love the support for weapon summon abilities. I just in general love when subclasses take abilities outside of immediate context into proper consideration.

I don't actually consider the interchangeability of similar weapons a new rule, but rather an extension of the way the "improvised weapon" rules allow an object which is similar to a given weapon to be used as that weapon: this is why it's in a sidebar. A greatsword is similar enough to a large short sword to make use of this rule. So to be clear, you aren't dual wielding lances, you are treating two lances as improvised large spears. The problem with a similar exchange for glaives is that there are no small, one-handed polearms, though you could have a very similar build by dual wielding large whips (2d4 is near enough to 1d10)


Argaen Forge - It seems a little odd to have an entire level dedicated to giving yourself the ability to access your class's required tools. Don't get me wrong, I LIKE this - it's great to have the option to simply upgrade what you have rather than having to go bargain hunting for exactly what you need.

I don't see it as any different from classes/subclasses that have "your attacks with X count as magical". It fills a need, but isn't very exciting.


But the second clause has me a little confused. The ability to do a full week's labor in a day, with no limiters except an exhaustion point? If it's as universally applicable as it sounds, then that means with a few artificer levels, you have a magic item manufactorium with an absolutely massive 7x speed boost. I like the sound of it - just be sure you're ok with having a universal 7x crafting speed boost on demand.

I don't have balance concerns about this: by the time this combo would come online casters (and full-classed artificers) will already have fabricate.


Destroyer - Hm. The feature is fine, it just highlights for me that it seems odd that you're normally completely unable to attack at all with a large weapon while not raging.

That's true. All barbarian subclasses focus on rage, and any combat abilities they gain from the subclass are tied to the rage mechanic. As far as I know there aren't any exceptions to this, so this barbarian lacking access to their subclass feature outside of rage isn't a unique limitation.


This feature also gives no combat bonuses, so be sure you're ok with the only combat capabilities granted over ten levels being a few more damage dice with a weapon that is only situationally even usable, and even then with an attack penalty.

I think of this ability is an invitation for violent creativity with destructible terrain elements, which I think would be fun as heck, in or out of combat. One of my favorite spells right now is shatter for exactly this reason, it's great to be able to blow the floor out from under someone's feet or drop a tree on someone.

Further, I've always thought of the Path of the Totem as one of the best designed barbarian subclasses, and it also features out-of-combat abilities at 6th and 10th levels. But I'll reconsider. Maybe some defensive benefit while fighting larger opponents?


Titanic Mastery - Seems odd that this is the capstone rather than the first benefit. Other than that, they look like fun options. Does Titan Sweep make you attack EVERY creature in your reach, including allies?

Yes. It also attacks objects. I recommend you don't use it around load-bearing walls. Or do.


And it seems odd to me that one would consider the cover granted by enemies in the way when throwing a massive weapon at all, and the kill clause is also very situational. Instead, consider forcing each creature hit to make a Strength save or be shoved into an adjacent square by the impact. If a creature makes their save, the attack against the next creature in the line is at -1 (stacking as one goes).

Mostly the kill clause for cover ignorance is for objects providing cover (even total cover), creating synergy with the Destroyer feature. I feel like making every creature roll a save on top of every attack roll could be a lot of rolls in one turn, especially since the ability can be used a whole lot, every turn while raging.


Have your read the Path of Unshackled Steel barbarian subclass? It does something very, very similar to this, but approaches it from a different angle. It does some things better, and other things worse, I recommend reading it if you haven't already.

I'll check it out, thanks.



Don't forget Cloud and Sephiroth as examples from another genre, although you don't need more support for why this is here, you have plenty.

I did make note of Cloud when discussing examples, but I didn't provide an illustration.


Titan's Grip - I do have some more questions about "large weapons." Do they lose other properties? What is considered finesse for dex attacks or heavy for GWM? Also, as it is right now, you are allowed large bows and crossbows. Is that okay with you?

A greatsword you are treating as a large shortsword has all the properties of a shortsword and none of the properties of a greatsword: it is light and finesse, it is not two-handed nor heavy. The ability is limited to melee weapons: "starting at third level, you can wield melee weapons made for large creatures (hereafter simply called "large weapons") while raging."


Argean Forge - I consider this a fluff ability personally. It's cool thematically and theatrically, but really only makes a difference in the character once they pick up a magical weapon (and I imagine that any DM allowing this class would allow you to find mundane large weapons fairly easily). I feel like level 6 needs something else, maybe an extra skill proficiency or something like that.

Well it does give you a tool proficiency, as well as the work-week-in-a-day ability. Out-of-combat benefits to be sure, but I think they're better benefits than things like Spirit Walker or Consult the Spirits.

Destroyer - Again, this is a cool ability but still pretty fluffy. I am not sure about your games, but the attacking on object doesn't happen all that often that an extra levels worth of skills should be devoted to it. I'm not sure what would fit in here best, but you need another minor or circumstantial ability to make level 10 feel worthwhile getting to.[/quote]

Maybe I'm blessed with more creative players than most, because my table attacks/casts spells at environmental elements all the time. That said, you're the second person to bring up this objection, so I'll rethink the way the class is set up.

Titan Sweep - This is a brutal ability, especially with a reach weapon (and a Bugbear). Sure it's somewhat edge case, but a Bugbear with an oversized reach weapon can make an attack with the weapon against all creatures and objects in a 15 foot radius. That has potential to be a lot of creatures and a lot of damage each round.[/quote]

Sounds great to me.


For the level 14 ability, I don't see myself using anything other than Titan Sweep and Titanic Toss. The other two abilities are good, but nothing compared to the effectiveness of those two in normal situations.

That's fine, I feel like there's room for several play styles here. And bugbears are explicitly one of the races I would like to see attracted to this class, so I'm pleased there's synergy.


As a side note in your Q&A, as a Giant Ape you don't know how to wield weapons. So, it would be cool but still not that effective.

Sure, you'd lose your proficiency, and the Giant Ape's fists already do 3d10 damage (with a 2x multiattack) so yes you're right it wouldn't be a very good tactic.


Overall, I think you have a really cool subclass here, it fits well into the Manga/Comic/Video Game/movie trope and fits the theme really well. As I mentioned in the comments, you have a few levels that are pretty dead and should be boosted.

Right now I'm thinking about scrapping Argean Forge, moving Destroyer up to 6th level, then putting in a defensive ability in at 10th, probably something to help you tank hits from larger opponents, but I don't really know exactly what form that ability will take yet.

[CountDVB]

And here we go again :)



Draconic Element - The damage absorption is a problem here that it allows you to gain HP. If you gain HP through fire and an ally has control flames, create bonfire, or any other cantrip that does fire damage you will never not be at full HP. The better way to do this would be to give THP all the time (no matter how many HP you have). Since current THP are replaced with new THP it helps.

-Lightning - How many lightning attack paralyze? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Elemental Dragon’s Roar - I'm not saying it's wrong, but it is odd that you don't have variable damage in this at all. Straight damage is not used all that ften.

Dracoelemental Body - So you AC is now 13+Dex+Cha? Seems like that will end up being pretty high for a sorcerer (as in a minimum of 18 AC in a caster class). Other than the AC change, this seems fine to me.

Dragon Force - This seems fine to me.

There is some overlap with the Draconic Sorcerer, but there is enough of a difference that they feel unique.




Well, they are based on Dragon magic, which is probably why, but well, couldn't resist given how much Fairy Tail is.

I like the temporary HP idea so I'll use that.

As for the for the lightning attack thing, well I can't think of anything else right now so I'd appreciate some suggestions.

Straight damage I figured could be for some fun

I thought base unarmored AC was 10? so with Dracoelemental body, your new unarmored base AC would be 10 + Dex modifier + Charisma modifier

Thank you very much

[Lvl45DM!]

Honestly I was torn between doing a Dunedain Ranger from Lord of The Rings or a Knight of the Round Table from Holy Grail.

But I take my DnD seriously I guess. And Rangers dont get enough love.

So allow me to present my rough-as Conclave of the Dunedain.

[nickl_2000]

More entries? More reviews



Alright, I saw path of the Reaver and immediately went to a different place than Dragonage. :smallbiggrin:

Blood Frenzy - The interesting thing on this is that it encourages the barbarian to be sword and board rather than a GWM barbarian. I'm actually glad to see that as a S&B style player (since you resist less damage it it better to not get hit as much). This class really does want you to be doing critical damage, with the extra die that will make a 19 very exciting.

Devour - This is a bit of a bookkeeping nightmare for the player/DM. For any particular creature the player kills, they will need to keep track of the CR and all the saves for this creature. I don't see the CR as a big deal really, but the saves are a little bit more of a struggle (especially if the DM doesn't want to give the players the saves on a particular creature since they will be running into more of them in the future). It may be simpler for saves to give advantage on the saving throws rather than use the consumed creatures saves instead. Although now that I read it again, the CR thing isn't a big deal because it only lasts until the end of your next turn.

"A creature whose essence was devoured this way cannot be returned to life by means of spells, unless a spell of 7th level or higher is used." can be simplified by "A creature whose essence was devoured this way cannot be returned to life by a spell of lower than 7th level."

Terrifying Fury - Okay, I was bothered by this at first thinking it would trigger to often when you have advantage (especially with elven accuracy). However, since it only last until the end of your next turn it isn't as bad.

So, overall you have hit your aim. This is definitely a glass canon style barbarian, which is a very different design space than most barbarians. You did a good job making sure that you can't abuse this with multiclassing. It looks good to me :)






Dunedain Endurance - The part of this feature where you lose exhaustion during a short rest is a duplicate of the 10th level Tireless feature of Tasha's option ranger abilities. It's very fitting to the theme and the character, but it may be worth changing that some (maybe something that prevent exhaustion rather than curing it) to prevent overlap of abilities.

Hands of a Healer - Personal pet peeve here. If they do have medicine proficiency, they don't get anything from this. Either give expertise or the choice of another ranger skill if they do have it. That way it isn't worthless.

Ancient Lore - I don't see the need to make this only for only 1 creature type. You only get to use it once per long rest, and there is a save vs the charm affect. You could easily open this to all creature types and it wouldn't cause any problems at all. Also, you didn't mention the action cost for Friend.

Will of the Dunedain - Seems fine to me.

The Return of The King - You forgot to mention the level here. Also, did you mean to limit the amount of times you can do this? I think at will is a little much. Especially if you can get something like a flaming sphere up and do damage with your bonus action.






Well, they are based on Dragon magic, which is probably why, but well, couldn't resist given how much Fairy Tail is.

I like the temporary HP idea so I'll use that.

As for the for the lightning attack thing, well I can't think of anything else right now so I'd appreciate some suggestions.

Straight damage I figured could be for some fun

I thought base unarmored AC was 10? so with Dracoelemental body, your new unarmored base AC would be 10 + Dex modifier + Charisma modifier

Thank you very much

Base unarmored AC is 10, but you are a sorcerer and will be casting Mage armor with a 1st level slot to get 3 extra AC (because why wouldn't you). That is where I got 13 + Dex + Cha. Mage Armor is not considered armor nor is it a shield. This gets even higher if you have magical items that boost your AC.

Let me think on the lightning ability. Shocking Grasp removes your reaction. Lightning Lure pulls people towards you. That's all that spells that do lightning damage do, everything else is straight lightning damage. Damage resistance would be the easy fallback damage type. Grounding someone else so they don't take lightning damage would be cool. Maybe if you take lightning damage, you can use your reaction to grab someone and pass some of the damage along to them (since electric charge passes through one object to another). That is what I have right now, but I will think on more.

[Lvl45DM!]

Dunedain Endurance - The part of this feature where you lose exhaustion during a short rest is a duplicate of the 10th level Tireless feature of Tasha's option ranger abilities. It's very fitting to the theme and the character, but it may be worth changing that some (maybe something that prevent exhaustion rather than curing it) to prevent overlap of abilities.

Hands of a Healer - Personal pet peeve here. If they do have medicine proficiency, they don't get anything from this. Either give expertise or the choice of another ranger skill if they do have it. That way it isn't worthless.

Ancient Lore - I don't see the need to make this only for only 1 creature type. You only get to use it once per long rest, and there is a save vs the charm affect. You could easily open this to all creature types and it wouldn't cause any problems at all. Also, you didn't mention the action cost for Friend.

Will of the Dunedain - Seems fine to me.

The Return of The King - You forgot to mention the level here. Also, did you mean to limit the amount of times you can do this? I think at will is a little much. Especially if you can get something like a flaming sphere up and do damage with your bonus action.






Endurance: Ugh really? I didnt get Tashas. I just wanted a Strider ability that wasnt just extra movement. Call it twice as long to gain levels of endurance naturally?

Hands of a Healer:Yeah they can pick another skill seems fair.

Ancient Lore:Ah yeah thats cos I toned it down from all creatures in 30ft without making something else stronger. Yknow cos Aragorn had an army. But then i realized thats an encounter ender and I dont like those sort of abilities.

Return of the King:I was sorta on the fence about that, but I wasnt thinking about BA. Definitely a limit. Whats sorta annoying is that thematically its a CHA ability but making it tied to CHA would be clunky on the rest of the chassis.

[nickl_2000]

Endurance: Ugh really? I didnt get Tashas. I just wanted a Strider ability that wasnt just extra movement. Call it twice as long to gain levels of endurance naturally?

Hands of a Healer:Yeah they can pick another skill seems fair.

Ancient Lore:Ah yeah thats cos I toned it down from all creatures in 30ft without making something else stronger. Yknow cos Aragorn had an army. But then i realized thats an encounter ender and I dont like those sort of abilities.

Return of the King:I was sorta on the fence about that, but I wasnt thinking about BA. Definitely a limit. Whats sorta annoying is that thematically its a CHA ability but making it tied to CHA would be clunky on the rest of the chassis.

Endurance:
-You can do a forced march extra without getting exhaustion
-once per long rest you can shrug off an effect that would cause a level of exhaustion (similar function, but not overlapping).
-You can go without sleep for a longer period of time

Just a few ideas.

[Damon_Tor]

Hands of a Healer - Personal pet peeve here. If they do have medicine proficiency, they don't get anything from this. Either give expertise or the choice of another ranger skill if they do have it. That way it isn't worthless.

IIRC, there's already a provision in the general rules that if you would ever gain a proficiency you already have, you can get a different proficiency of the same type of your choice instead. It's possible I'm misremembering that though.

[Lvl45DM!]

IIRC, there's already a provision in the general rules that if you would ever gain a proficiency you already have, you can get a different proficiency of the same type of your choice instead. It's possible I'm misremembering that though.

It is! PHB 125

[Twelvetrees]

Cannibal Witch is ready for review. I'm not happy with how poorly the 6th and 10th level features work together so if someone has a better idea for the 6th level feature, I'd love to hear. it.

[nickl_2000]

IIRC, there's already a provision in the general rules that if you would ever gain a proficiency you already have, you can get a different proficiency of the same type of your choice instead. It's possible I'm misremembering that though.


It is! PHB 125

I always assumed that applied to backgrounds only since it was in the background section. Especially since the newer books (Tasha's) use this language for the armorer

"You also gain proficiency with smith’s tools. If you already have this tool proficiency, you gain proficiency with one other type of artisan’s tools of your choice."


Either way, it doesn't hurt to put it in there for clarities sake.




Cannibal Witch is ready for review. I'm not happy with how poorly the 6th and 10th level features work together so if someone has a better idea for the 6th level feature, I'd love to hear. it.


Okay, so both the level 2 features feel like fluff features to me. They are neat and they are thematic, but they won't make a huge difference in the game. There is nothing in there that yells to me, this is what I will be doing all that time that fits the theme and makes me more powerful.

Maybe your house can have a charm affect where while it is standing all creatures within a certain distance must make a save or be charmed and forced to move towards the cottage and spend their action eating it? Or maybe if they do eat it they must make a con save or have their speed slowed for 1 minute (because they are so full of sweet). Something that has either direct or indirect combat implications.

Fatten Them Up - That is a lot of temp hp. When you are level 10 you are giving 50 hp, considering a fighter at that level would have 86 you are adding over 50% more hp to them. This gets to be even more when it's factored into a barbarian who gets damage resistances. Personally, I would look to make this a smaller about and allow you to do it once per person per short rest. That way is has an impact on the game, but it is spread more evenly around. Another possible issue here is the feeding of it to enemies or people that aren't enemies. You can force feed them food and give them disadvantage from your suggestion and charm spells forever basically. The concept is a cool one, but how does the NPC avoid that?

Into the Oven - How many people can be in the oven at once?

Cook and Eat Them - Do my a favor and say that your regain hit points equal to their hit dice (rounded down). That way it's extremely clear that you can't just start throwing CR 1/8 creature in there until you are at full hit points.


So, I don't see an issue with the level 6 and 10 features not working together. Both of the are related to your theme and it makes it so you get a feature when your house has been destroyed.

[Lvl45DM!]

I always assumed that applied to backgrounds only since it was in the background section. Especially since the newer books (Tasha's) use this language for the armorer

"You also gain proficiency with smith’s tools. If you already have this tool proficiency, you gain proficiency with one other type of artisan’s tools of your choice."


Either way, it doesn't hurt to put it in there for clarity's sake.

It specifies "any source". But it doesn't hurt, no.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I actually got an idea these last few days. I think I'll be competing this round, if someone doesn't beat me to the execution.

[Ilerien]

Alright, I saw path of the Reaver and immediately went to a different place than Dragonage. :smallbiggrin:

Blood Frenzy - The interesting thing on this is that it encourages the barbarian to be sword and board rather than a GWM barbarian. I'm actually glad to see that as a S&B style player (since you resist less damage it it better to not get hit as much). This class really does want you to be doing critical damage, with the extra die that will make a 19 very exciting.

Devour - This is a bit of a bookkeeping nightmare for the player/DM. For any particular creature the player kills, they will need to keep track of the CR and all the saves for this creature. I don't see the CR as a big deal really, but the saves are a little bit more of a struggle (especially if the DM doesn't want to give the players the saves on a particular creature since they will be running into more of them in the future). It may be simpler for saves to give advantage on the saving throws rather than use the consumed creatures saves instead. Although now that I read it again, the CR thing isn't a big deal because it only lasts until the end of your next turn.

"A creature whose essence was devoured this way cannot be returned to life by means of spells, unless a spell of 7th level or higher is used." can be simplified by "A creature whose essence was devoured this way cannot be returned to life by a spell of lower than 7th level."

Terrifying Fury - Okay, I was bothered by this at first thinking it would trigger to often when you have advantage (especially with elven accuracy). However, since it only last until the end of your next turn it isn't as bad.

So, overall you have hit your aim. This is definitely a glass canon style barbarian, which is a very different design space than most barbarians. You did a good job making sure that you can't abuse this with multiclassing. It looks good to me :)


Thank you for taking a look! :smallsmile:
Your suggested wording improvements are sound and much appreciated! :)

I have to admit, I don't entirely like the saving throw boost option of Devour precisely for the same reason: if devoured creature's CR is just one number to keep track of, saves are the whole 6 more, so a DM would have to look up the save modifiers when their player uses this option. I'm reluctant to give an advantage and call it a day because it should be dependent in some way of the creature devoured. Maybe just give a CR/2 bonus? Would be more powerful, but not really a big deal I think.

Elven accuracy doesn't work with strength-based attacks, so it won't work with reckless attack (that gives advantage only to strength-based attacks).
The effect of Terrifying Fury itself is kind of in line with 10th level feature of Berserker. Doesn't take up an action itself and affects more targets, sure, but actually triggering it requires some measure of luck. Has particularly good DC out of the box for pretty much any barbarian, but once an enemy makes the save, it's immune to further occurrences of this feature.

[Damon_Tor]

Changelog: I removed the Argean Forge ability from the Path of the Titan and moved Destroyer to 6th level. At 10th level they gain "Clash", a defensive reaction to being hit with a melee weapon attack, reducing the damage by the result of a strength (athletics) check. If you reduce the damage to zero you totally overpower the incoming attack and get to make a free melee weapon attack against the opponent.

This is supposed to model the iconic weapon clash, especially popular between characters with massive freaking weapons: https://media.moddb.com/images/members/1/413/412539/inuyasha15-01.jpg

EDIT: Thinking about it, Inuyasha might be my closest archetype, using his (racially derived) claws most of the time then pulling out his magical x-box-hueg sword when something really needs its ass kicked. This is especially true at the start of the story, then relying more and more on his sword as the story progresses (ie, as he gains barbarian levels and can rage more often). And he is definitely an emotional, reckless fighter, fitting the barbarian class to a T.

[Damon_Tor]

re: Battling Bowman

How about a grappling-hook arrow?

Great subclass. I'd like it if you replaced some of the instances of the word "arrow" with the more generic "projectile". It would be good, I think, to allow the class to function with crossbows and slings as well. (IIRC, kobolds have, or maybe had in past editions, an NPC type that uses a sling to launch clay pots filled with glue or smoke bombs. This subclass could model that mechanic.)

[nickl_2000]

re: Battling Bowman

How about a grappling-hook arrow?

Great subclass. I'd like it if you replaced some of the instances of the word "arrow" with the more generic "projectile". It would be good, I think, to allow the class to function with crossbows and slings as well. (IIRC, kobolds have, or maybe had in past editions, an NPC type that uses a sling to launch clay pots filled with glue or smoke bombs. This subclass could model that mechanic.)

Thanks for taking a look.

Good call, while this is modelled after the Green Arrow and Hawkeye, it was intended to be applicable to all projectiles (bolts, arrows, thrown daggers, darts, sling bullets, etc).

I added in the grappling hook projectile trick shot since that it pretty iconic. I actually left it out since it seemed pretty abusable, but I think I locked it down well enough to keep it to the intended purposes

[MoleMage]

Alright I'm torn. Which of these would people like to see?

Mantis Kinden Ranger (based on Adrian Tchaikovsky's Shadows of the Apt book series) [Includes a "birthright" mechanic that I haven't figured out yet but probably just means mutual exclusivity with other birthrights.]
Way of the Mists (based on Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn series)
Hollowborn Fighter (Based on the video game Hollow Knight)
Malaised One Fighter (Based on the video game Dead Cells) [Includes a "roguelike" inspired mechanic where each day you get random boons or penalties, encouraging you to adjust your playstyle on the fly]
Way of the Watcher (Based on the video game Slay the Spire) [Honestly might just use still yet more stances; it's her thing in-game]

[nickl_2000]

Alright I'm torn. Which of these would people like to see?

Mantis Kinden Ranger (based on Adrian Tchaikovsky's Shadows of the Apt book series) [Includes a "birthright" mechanic that I haven't figured out yet but probably just means mutual exclusivity with other birthrights.]
Way of the Mists (based on Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn series)
Hollowborn Fighter (Based on the video game Hollow Knight)
Malaised One Fighter (Based on the video game Dead Cells) [Includes a "roguelike" inspired mechanic where each day you get random boons or penalties, encouraging you to adjust your playstyle on the fly]
Way of the Watcher (Based on the video game Slay the Spire) [Honestly might just use still yet more stances; it's her thing in-game]

I personally vote for Way of the Mist, but that is because it is the only one of those I've read or played.

[RickAsWritten]

Way of the Watcher (Based on the video game Slay the Spire) [Honestly might just use still yet more stances; it's her thing in-game]

Hah, I've spent the last few days chewing over how I could get the Defect or the Silent to transfer over to 5e mechanics. That game is so, so good. Can't go wrong with Mistborn (or anything BrandoSando) either.

[MoleMage]

Hah, I've spent the last few days chewing over how I could get the Defect or the Silent to transfer over to 5e mechanics. That game is so, so good. Can't go wrong with Mistborn (or anything BrandoSando) either.

It was a tossup between Silent and Watcher for me to put on that list.

EDIT: I think the Defect needs a whole class; its mechanics just don't line up with anything in 5e so far.

[Lvl45DM!]

Added a few adjustments to the Dunedain ranger.

[RickAsWritten]

My entry is up. A fighter subclass based on everyone's favorite Irish corporate hitman, Zane from Borderlands 3. Truth be told, in regards to the balance...I'm not sure if I "hit a cows arse with a banjo," but it's done and it stays mostly true to the character.

Fighter Archetype: Magitech Mercenary (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24952622&postcount=11)

[Phhase]

More text.


Sorry I meant to say, Arrowman Artificer.

I like Quick quiver. Does it function like a magazine for a crossbow? Potentially making it effectively a repeater? Would be sweet. Also, if you're proficient with improvised weapons (c.f. Tavern Brawler feat, I think) can you store pretty much anything of a certain size in the quiver? The part where it says that items stored are not lost on destruction makes me think it'd be a REALLY good alternative to leomund's secret chest in a pinch.

Interesting to make the specialized ammunition a maneuver-like system rather than, well, just specialized ammunition. That you can make. It's not a problem just a quirk to me. The fact that you inevitably learn all the maneuvers does feel odd though, kinda like Legolas is a wasted subclass feature. What if you learn more at certain milestones after the first level and just have something else in that spot? + to uses on rolling initiative is usually a capstone ribbon (which is odd since the capstone already does that).

I think calling Speedy Extra Attack would be good, since that's what it is. Something about specific rules interactions between class features and the "Extra Attack" feature specifically. I forget the details, but there's some sort of mechanical significance to it somewhere. Unless you foresaw that and are ok with odd stacking interactions, naturally.

Hmm, What dyou think about grappling or restraining your target with the bola arrow instead, spellpower as escape DC? For the Glue then I'd maybe try the effect that the UA artificer tanglefoot bag formula has, an AOE of diffucult terrain and then starting your turn in it reduces your speed by half again, so effectively 1/4 speed zone.

What happens if you shoot a creature with a grapple? Can you pull then out of the sky? Out of a fall? Like a harpoon towards you?

Rain arrows are pretty badass. Does it enable the use of Call Lightning?

I like the capstone, looks good. Overall, pretty good!





I like blood frenzy. The near death mechanics and trading resistances for damage is a cool idea. Does the critical strike enhancer stack with other sources of such effects? Also the wording on the last feature is a little confusing, say the "When you are at half or less of your max hp, then..." part first.

Devour is also a cool feature. I like having choices. I assume the Extra necrotic damage is 1d8 minimum for a CR 1 Creature? You've got some bag-of-rats protection in there, and I kind of like that you don't have to be raging to use this feature. Does the necrotic damage double on a crit like a smite? Do you declare it before or after an attack hits? Useless in single combat, though, which I think is a fair trade off given its power and the flavor of the archetype.

I like aura of pain too, lots of good features here! The Devour Synergy is great. I just wonder if you'd consider a flat save penalty over disadvantage. Although literally that's only because I associate AoE pain debuff effects with 3.5e Symbol of pain which inflicts flat penalties (I think).

Terrifying Fury is ok. I'm not sure how good it is considering it only lasts one turn, relies on crits, and has an immunity clause, but I think the otherwise unlimited use balances it out? It's cool, at any rate.

Good entry, very cohesive, concise, and interesting! Gives me Guts vibes.



Only note for Endurance is that the definition of "natural exhaustion gain rate" is a very blurry concept you may want to look into.

Endurance and maxed short rests are both niche but very good in a hardcore campaign. Good design.

I like the idea of having favored friends as a variant on favored enemies, that's a cool idea. To be clear, you get resistance whether or not the attempt succeeds, right? I also like that that you get some hard benefits alongside the soft informational benefits that might not be as useful if you accidentally memorize monster statblocks the way I do (although it'd still be amazing against nonstandard enemies).

Everything looks fine! Good recreation of that one guy from that one trilogy. I probably wouldn't play as this, but I'd be happy to have one in the party.




Just summon a wholeass gingerbread house. I love it, that's hilarious.

Oooh, I like the idea of trading off making enemies tougher to make them softer for your spells, interesting.

How many creatures can fit in the oven at once? Does it affect allies too? And what's the max creature size? That could be pretty OP in the right scenario. Especially since you effectively have to make 2 saving throws in a row to successfully escape the oven, because you make the first save at the end of your turn, then start your turn next to it again forcing another save.

Cook and eat is a bit meh though, although the fact that it fails bag of rats makes it obtusely useful.

Overall a pretty sweet meme subclass lol. :smallbiggrin:




Missed one "defender" when retrofitting the text, in the mending clause. I like the ranged attack fire support. If you communicate with it remotely, does that mean you can make skill checks at basically any range?

Barrier seems decent.

Cloner is ok. Lacking in any depth, but mechanically solid, I think? It it good enough? I dunno.

Since only one ability has either one of the specified clauses, I don't think you need to be so general with Kill Skill.

Does the duplicate gain the benefits of any buff spells or other enhancers like magic weapons that you are currently benefiting from? That could be pretty sweet. Also, what does "One use of the indomitable ability" mean? I didn't see any such ability.

Overall decent. I trust it's faithful to the source material, but I personally feel it lacks something. I dunno, I'm probably wrong.



<Dragonelement Sorc>
Having looked over the change to Dragonelement Sorcerer, I think you're trying to cram an entire subclass with a separate playstyle into a single class feature. I understand the angle, and as is it's okay as a feature, but I still think the ability-burst is a better idea both flavor and balance-wise. Funnily enough, the actual Pyro from TF2 suffers from a similar problem that I tried to fix rather thn emulate with my design. That's part of the reason I went for Axtinguisher rather than Airblast for my Pyro Sorcerer, because Pyro as a TF2 class is already in a strange identity confusion crisis between close and medium range, and offense/DoT/Burst/Ambush/Support/Other features. For a sorcerer, I wanted a reason to get into melee range that was in line with the offensive nature of the class without compromising its identity. What sort of reason would an offensive midrange class that has less HP than it could have to get into close range where it's dangerous? Well, for an offensive class with DoT components, you wouldn't want to be in melee range for very long, right? So how about trading consistent damage over time for an instant burst of damage for a finishing blow? Ideally, your opponent will either be killed by it, or will perish soon after limiting your exposure to danger - pretty much the same way the actual Axtinguisher works in TF2! Conversely, Dracoelemental Body is like the Sharpened Volcano Fragment. As a weapon, it's either redundant, or completely outclassed by anything else the class can do, and even if you can make it work in a given situation, it's still not because of anything unique it itself offers that anything else you have doesn't also offer. On a different class, the Sharpened Volcano Fragment would be a great weapon (As Dracoelemental Body would be great on, say, Monk or Fighter or maybe Warlock) but for Sorcerer it's...kind of just there. But that's all just opinion, do as you will.

<Titan Barbarian>
Apropos of reshaping terrain as a core class feature of Giant Weapon Barbarian - don't get me wrong, I LOVE environmental combat. I'm personally of the opinion that if I am making a basic vanilla weapon attack with no frills on any given turn, something is wrong. However, it's very DM-dependent, and I usally try to accomplish this sort of thing using systems at least one step removed from my base class features. What you've done is make the core fighting style of the class completely dependent on the DM for being effective in a given situation through emergent gameplay. I like the idea, I just think it could use some backup. And while I do cede that many Barbarian class features are keyed to rage, I think that being able to swing your weapon at all is a step too far. That's part of what I like about the Path of Unshacked Steel version of this subclass - it's not about using the weapon it all, it about how you use it and how effective you are when doing so (c.f. disadvantage by default, offest by Momentum and Brutality mechanics). Also, while you're right about equivalency and the improvised weapon rules (an interesting point that I hadn't considered), I still think that with the rules as they are, you ought to be able to dual wield glaives if you can dual wield lances. Just because there's no name for the other version of the weapon doesn't mean it shouldn't work imo. It would be like...a glaive used as an improvised large spear that deals slashing damage instead, I guess. Point is, while I do love the elegancy of dovetailing into existing rules, I don't think that ought to allow for fringe arbitrary limitations as I see it.

[Lvl45DM!]

More text.




Only note for Endurance is that the definition of "natural exhaustion gain rate" is a very blurry concept you may want to look into.

Endurance and maxed short rests are both niche but very good in a hardcore campaign. Good design.

I like the idea of having favored friends as a variant on favored enemies, that's a cool idea. To be clear, you get resistance whether or not the attempt succeeds, right? I also like that that you get some hard benefits alongside the soft informational benefits that might not be as useful if you accidentally memorize monster statblocks the way I do (although it'd still be amazing against nonstandard enemies).

Everything looks fine! Good recreation of that one guy from that one trilogy. I probably wouldn't play as this, but I'd be happy to have one in the party.


Thanks. Yeah you get the hard benefits regardless of success. I figured since its running off creature type they might not get to use it much, and that would suck, so I made it a little stronger.

About Endurance, I might need to read the rules clearer, but its for things like forced marches or weather. But there isnt a neat list in the books of what causes exhaustion.

I just realized, it makes a half decent Witcher subclass with the ancient lore thing. Just switch Medicine to making alchemy and some stuff like that.

[Ilerien]

Good entry, very cohesive, concise, and interesting! Gives me Guts vibes.
Thank you for your feedback! :)

I like blood frenzy. The near death mechanics and trading resistances for damage is a cool idea. Does the critical strike enhancer stack with other sources of such effects? Also the wording on the last feature is a little confusing, say the "When you are at half or less of your max hp, then..." part first.Critical range increase shouldn't stack with similar effects. As I understand, it works on the same principle as base AC: you may choose any option you have to determine it, but only one of them. So 14th level Reaver with 3 levels of Champion fighter would crit on 19-20 normally or on 18-20 when using reckless attack while in blood frenzy.
The wording indeed could use some improvements, I'll look into it more closely.
Devour is also a cool feature. I like having choices. I assume the Extra necrotic damage is 1d8 minimum for a CR 1 Creature? You've got some bag-of-rats protection in there, and I kind of like that you don't have to be raging to use this feature. Does the necrotic damage double on a crit like a smite? Do you declare it before or after an attack hits? Useless in single combat, though, which I think is a fair trade off given its power and the flavor of the archetype.Your assumption is correct: it will be 1d8 if CR 1 creature is devoured. Necrotic damage doubles on crit: it's additional dice after all. You declare it after the attack hits, much like a rogue does with sneak attack (hence "when you hit with..." clause).
I like aura of pain too, lots of good features here! The Devour Synergy is great. I just wonder if you'd consider a flat save penalty over disadvantage. Although literally that's only because I associate AoE pain debuff effects with 3.5e Symbol of pain which inflicts flat penalties (I think).5e's Symbol of Pain says "Each target must make a Constitution saving throw and becomes incapacitated with excruciating pain for 1 minute on a failed save." I like 3.5 version, but flat bonuses and penalties are seldom used in 5e.
Terrifying Fury is ok. I'm not sure how good it is considering it only lasts one turn, relies on crits, and has an immunity clause, but I think the otherwise unlimited use balances it out? It's cool, at any rate.I tried to capture the feeling of reasonably high reward (frightening everyone around) triggered by chance. Though one has the ability to influence the probability: just frenzy and go on with reckless attack! :smallbiggrin: I do think it would become unreasonably powerful if its duration is extended or if immunity clause is lifted: with 2 attacks per round and crit on 18-20 it's very likely a reaver will crit at least once per 2-3 rounds. Woe to the weak-willed who fail their save repeatedly. :)

[RickAsWritten]

Missed one "defender" when retrofitting the text, in the mending clause. I like the ranged attack fire support. If you communicate with it remotely, does that mean you can make skill checks at basically any range?

Barrier seems decent.

Cloner is ok. Lacking in any depth, but mechanically solid, I think? It it good enough? I dunno.

Since only one ability has either one of the specified clauses, I don't think you need to be so general with Kill Skill.

Does the duplicate gain the benefits of any buff spells or other enhancers like magic weapons that you are currently benefiting from? That could be pretty sweet. Also, what does "One use of the indomitable ability" mean? I didn't see any such ability.

Overall decent. I trust it's faithful to the source material, but I personally feel it lacks something. I dunno, I'm probably wrong.



Made a couple changes based on your feedback. Thanks!


Fixed typos
Added speed boost Action to SNTNL
Altered wording for cover from Barrier
Added speed boost to Kill Skill
Clarified Doubled Agent

[nickl_2000]

More text.

Sorry I meant to say, Arrowman Artificer.

I like Quick quiver. Does it function like a magazine for a crossbow? Potentially making it effectively a repeater? Would be sweet. Also, if you're proficient with improvised weapons (c.f. Tavern Brawler feat, I think) can you store pretty much anything of a certain size in the quiver? The part where it says that items stored are not lost on destruction makes me think it'd be a REALLY good alternative to leomund's secret chest in a pinch.

Interesting to make the specialized ammunition a maneuver-like system rather than, well, just specialized ammunition. That you can make. It's not a problem just a quirk to me. The fact that you inevitably learn all the maneuvers does feel odd though, kinda like Legolas is a wasted subclass feature. What if you learn more at certain milestones after the first level and just have something else in that spot? + to uses on rolling initiative is usually a capstone ribbon (which is odd since the capstone already does that).

I think calling Speedy Extra Attack would be good, since that's what it is. Something about specific rules interactions between class features and the "Extra Attack" feature specifically. I forget the details, but there's some sort of mechanical significance to it somewhere. Unless you foresaw that and are ok with odd stacking interactions, naturally.

Hmm, What dyou think about grappling or restraining your target with the bola arrow instead, spellpower as escape DC? For the Glue then I'd maybe try the effect that the UA artificer tanglefoot bag formula has, an AOE of diffucult terrain and then starting your turn in it reduces your speed by half again, so effectively 1/4 speed zone.

What happens if you shoot a creature with a grapple? Can you pull then out of the sky? Out of a fall? Like a harpoon towards you?

Rain arrows are pretty badass. Does it enable the use of Call Lightning?

I like the capstone, looks good. Overall, pretty good!



Since you are playing an artificer, you have access to the repeating infusion and the XBE feat. I didn't want to replicate those, so I didn't give that effect on purpose.

As for the maneuver system, in my mind canon the magical quiver is building the arrow as you draw it out, having it do whatever you need it to do. That was you have the almost magical ability to pull just the arrow you need for the situation. Plus, I didn't want someone to have to pick at a short rest, it's a bookkeeping hassle I didn't want to have to introduce.

Thanks, yes since I named it Speedy, it would have technically stacked with extra attack and it should. I resolved that issue.

I change the trick shots to be 4 at 3, 8 at 9, 12 at 15 and only left if get a trick shot if you have none as part of the capstone. Then added in a 9th level ability to allow you to nock two arrows at once and make two attacks against a single target in place of a single attack a few times a day (i.e. nova damage).

Touched up the Bola and Glue arrows based on your suggestion. As for the grappling arrow, it has this rider at the end "This trick shot can only be used against an object, and one that is not being carried by a creature." I did that on purpose to avoid the concept of a grappling hook hitting something and the problem involved in that.

As for rain arrows, you are creating a storm. I see no reason why you couldn't use them to make it storm and make the Druid's Call Lightning spell do more damage. Seems like awesome team work to me and the thing I love seeing in a game.



Thank you for all the suggestions and comments!

[nickl_2000]

SNTNL - So, the stat block on this seems mostly good, although Zoomer need some sort of range to it. Looks like a companion style fighter. There are a few wonky things with the duration though.

1) You Summon it as a bonus action, and you need a bonus action to command it to do anything other than dodge. So, one the first turn you summon it, the SNTNL will be twiddling it's thumbs. If this isn't intentional, you may want to consider putting in something that allows you to summons and command on the first turn in the same bonus action.

2) It's summoned for 1 minute. Mending takes 1 minute to cast (and isn't normally accessible to the fighter without a feat or multiclassing). So, unless you are doubling the summon time, you can't actually heal it at all.

3) Speaking of doubling the summon time. Does the time grow exponentially or does it grow by 1 minute each time? I.e. is the progression 1,2,3,4,5 (etc) minutes, or 1,2,4,8,16,32 (etc) minutes.

I don't know the theme all that well, but would it be fitting to give the PC mending as well?

Barrier - Seems okay. The action cost is pretty high, but it's a large barrier and half-cover for all your allies is pretty darn good. Same question with the summoning time.

Kill Skill - Small typo in the first sentence. When you get to 1 hour is that the max length on the abilities? Or does it keep increasing by an hour each time you kill a CR1+ creature?

Doubled Agent - So, bonus attack once per round when you have mirror image up. Makes sense, and is sensibly limited.

Question on all the kill someone to get a new ability. If I'm level 10 and kill a CR 2 critter, do I get a Clone, Barrier, and SNTNL back or just one of them?



This is certainly an interesting subclass. I really like the teamwork aspect that it offers for a fighter, which isn't always available. There were a few questions above about durations. Other than than the only other comment I have is that there is a lot of competition for your bonus action each turn. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does limit the power of the subclass a little bit. Overall though, this is a really solid entry and a good subclass that I would enjoy seeing at my table.

[Snowben Gaming]

So I discovered this for the first time yesterday and I made the Dragonstone Warrior: a fighter subclass based on Corrin from Fire Emblem Fates. It's... not good, to say the least. I made it in about an hour or so, and I'm pretty sure it's only my 2nd ever homebrew subclass. So critique is more than welcome.

[nickl_2000]

So I discovered this for the first time yesterday and I made the Dragonstone Warrior: a fighter subclass based on Corrin from Fire Emblem Fates. It's... not good, to say the least. I made it in about an hour or so, and I'm pretty sure it's only my 2nd ever homebrew subclass. So critique is more than welcome.

New entry, new review :) And for an hours worth of work, I think it is actually pretty darn good.



Welcome to the party! Glad to see new names and fresh aviators!

Draconic Regality - Looks good, no complaints here

Dragonstone Transformation - Small typo that changes the intended meaning "If you loose this stone" I assume should be "if you lose this stone."

For the Arcane Blast on this feature, this actually seems a little underpowered in terms of damage. Once you use this, you loose your over abilities so it's effectively a finishing move in combat if you need it. A fighter at level 5 will be doing 2 attacks, each at around 1d8+4. So average damage on hit of 8.5 each to do 17 damage a round. This ability will do an average of 10.5 damage in a round, and making you lose your +1 AC bonus. Really, there are only rare situations where it would be worthwhile to use this ability as it is. I may look at either boosting the amount of damage done by 1d6 or making it a small AoE ability to make it more worthwhile to use.

On the other hand, the light, reach weapon that does 1d8 is a little to powerful. The only other martial weapon that is similar is the whip, which does 1d4 damage. Since it's part of an ability, doing 1d6 damage feels right to me. Or either remove the light or the reach property (probably the light because I'm assuming the reach is part of the theme).

Blood of the First Dragons - Seems fine to me as is.

Dragonfang - Despite this ability causing it to no longer end the transformation, I would still keep the damage higher. Otherwise this seems good, the ability to use it in place of the last attack is powerful, but is sensibly limited. This making it cool, effective, and well balanced.

Dragon's Soul - Makes sense. A lot is based on your dragon form up until now, so it's nice to be able to use it more often.

Dragon-kin - The last bullet on here seems a little much to me. Being able to make 2 to 3 attacks and then dropping 5d6 (or 6d6) damage on someone at will is really, really powerful. Everything else is good, even moving the damage to 1d10 on the force lance weapon. You have a capstone, it should be cool.

Ignore all of the above. As I read on further, I saw that you could only do this once per long rest. Given that's the case I retract everything and see this as perfectly fine the way it is. It's powerful, but it is limited enough to make it balanced.


Overall, this is a really good entry. It's got a lot of good flavour to it and feel to it. There is plenty to do while playing the class and seems great.

[Snowben Gaming]

New entry, new review :) And for an hours worth of work, I think it is actually pretty darn good.



Welcome to the party! Glad to see new names and fresh aviators!

Draconic Regality - Looks good, no complaints here

Dragonstone Transformation - Small typo that changes the intended meaning "If you loose this stone" I assume should be "if you lose this stone."

For the Arcane Blast on this feature, this actually seems a little underpowered in terms of damage. Once you use this, you loose your over abilities so it's effectively a finishing move in combat if you need it. A fighter at level 5 will be doing 2 attacks, each at around 1d8+4. So average damage on hit of 8.5 each to do 17 damage a round. This ability will do an average of 10.5 damage in a round, and making you lose your +1 AC bonus. Really, there are only rare situations where it would be worthwhile to use this ability as it is. I may look at either boosting the amount of damage done by 1d6 or making it a small AoE ability to make it more worthwhile to use.

On the other hand, the light, reach weapon that does 1d8 is a little to powerful. The only other martial weapon that is similar is the whip, which does 1d4 damage. Since it's part of an ability, doing 1d6 damage feels right to me. Or either remove the light or the reach property (probably the light because I'm assuming the reach is part of the theme).

Blood of the First Dragons - Seems fine to me as is.

Dragonfang - Despite this ability causing it to no longer end the transformation, I would still keep the damage higher. Otherwise this seems good, the ability to use it in place of the last attack is powerful, but is sensibly limited. This making it cool, effective, and well balanced.

Dragon's Soul - Makes sense. A lot is based on your dragon form up until now, so it's nice to be able to use it more often.

Dragon-kin - The last bullet on here seems a little much to me. Being able to make 2 to 3 attacks and then dropping 5d6 (or 6d6) damage on someone at will is really, really powerful. Everything else is good, even moving the damage to 1d10 on the force lance weapon. You have a capstone, it should be cool.

Ignore all of the above. As I read on further, I saw that you could only do this once per long rest. Given that's the case I retract everything and see this as perfectly fine the way it is. It's powerful, but it is limited enough to make it balanced.


Overall, this is a really good entry. It's got a lot of good flavour to it and feel to it. There is plenty to do while playing the class and seems great.



Thanks for the feedback!

The "loose" should be "lose", that was indeed a typo.

The Arcane Blast was the main thing I was worried about in this to be honest, my rationale for its current state was that it deals force damage, which isn't commonly resisted. I'll probably make it a small AoE (5ft radius sphere maybe?) as it is effectively the closest thing you get to a breath weapon, rather than increase the damage (although I might end up doing so anyways).

The natural weapon is a weird one, as Corrin (who this whole thing is based off) can attack with it after making a weapon attack with a 1 handed weapon, indicating that it has the light property (but then again, he usually makes it after an attack with his sword, which is best represented in 5e by a longsword, which doesn't have the light property, so I can only assume he just took the Dual-Wielder feat) and although it has way more reach than any melee weapon in FE: Fates, it doesn't actually increase his in-game reach (probably because he only uses it as part of a combo which has a % chance of being triggered by any attack he makes on his turn, so the attack uses the reach of the weapon he used. Not to mention all melee weapons in Fire Emblem have the same reach.), all of which means that, if I'm being faithful to the source, it shouldn't have either property. I'm definitely going to keep the reach though, so I'll probably drop the damage down to a d6 or remove the light property. I'm leaning towards damage, but that of course raises the point of if I need to lower the damage while in true dragon form. (Although I forgot to remove the ability to actually wield manufactured weapons (and other object interactions) while in true dragon form, as you're walking around on all fours, so that'll probably balance out... hopefully.) Never mind, Corrin still has hands in dragon form, but his equipment is absorbed into him (like how it is for a druid's Wildshape, so I'll add that as a clause instead.

I'm glad to hear everything else holds up, I was half expecting the capstone to be too weak, and half expecting it to be way too strong, so I'm real happy that it's actually ok.

Thanks again!

[Phhase]

Welcome to the clan, Snow! I'm the needlessly complex one.

As far as dragonstone warrior goes, honestly, not much to say. Looks pretty good! I really can't think of many changes to make, it's pretty well done. Seems faithful to the source, not the most flexible but certainly consistent, strength seems ok. Good entry!

Way of Mist isn't done, but what is there seems neat. I like the extra turn and the healing pool, though 5 points might be a bit much for just advantage.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Wait, quick question, is there a spell or other magical way to identify a person, like just point at them and say "what's their name?" basically?

[Snowben Gaming]

Welcome to the clan, Snow! I'm the needlessly complex one.

As far as dragonstone warrior goes, honestly, not much to say. Looks pretty good! I really can't think of many changes to make, it's pretty well done. Seems faithful to the source, not the most flexible but certainly consistent, strength seems ok. Good entry!

Thanks! I'm honestly kind of surprised as to how well it holds up, but I'm definitely glad to hear it does.


Wait, quick question, is there a spell or other magical way to identify a person, like just point at them and say "what's their name?" basically?

:smallconfused: I... don't believe so, but if you need something that does so, you can always make it.

Well then, I guess I should do my part and give some feedback.
First Metals: This (and the subclass as a whole) does depend on what the metals actually do, so I'll probably give an extra bit of feedback once you've had the time to do them.

Allomantic Reserves: Again, depends on the metals, but assuming that all of the metals require ki to activate, this will be a really good feature.

Augur: This is pretty cool. I do have a question though: when assigning bonus ki from Allomantic Reserves, do you gain 3 gold points per ki point, or just 3 no matter how many ki points you put in. I assume it's the former, but I just figured I'd ask, as the wording doesn't make it clear (at least for me).

Atium: Now this is good. No further comments here.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

:smallconfused: I... don't believe so, but if you need something that does so, you can always make it.

No, I need there to not be such a thing, or I need to put in a sentence that protects against it somewhere. :smallbiggrin:



I let it get right down to the wire this month. I honestly wouldn't mind a week extension, which I would use to give feedback on all your great creations and maybe nerf some of these optional abilities I wrote into the Masked Menace. But I'm also good to go as is.

[Snowben Gaming]

No, I need there to not be such a thing, or I need to put in a sentence that protects against it somewhere. :smallbiggrin:

Fair enough.


I let it get right down to the wire this month. I honestly wouldn't mind a week extension, which I would use to give feedback on all your great creations and maybe nerf some of these optional abilities I wrote into the Masked Menace. But I'm also good to go as is.

Well, even if you don't get time to do any revisions, have some feedback:
Alter Ego: Beyond a minor typo (acquire of scavenge should be acquire or scavenge) this is a pretty snazzy ribbon ability, as befitting a rogue subclass.

Quick Change: This feels more like an extension of Alter Ego to me. Additionally, 5e doesn't have full round actions, so the second sentence needs to be changed (at least the wording does, it could still take a full round, you'd just have to specify that if you take the action and no bonus actions or movement on your turn then you get the benefits). Also, Stealth checks should be written as "Dexterity (Stealth) checks", but that's just a writing thing rather than a balance thing, so it's easily changed.

Level 3 Overall: The features here are really good flavour wise, but they're both ribbons, whereas the official rogue subclasses get a ribbon and a combat-based feature. Since Alter Ego and Quick Change are so closely related, I'd say you'd be able to pass them off together as the ribbon and then add an extra combat-based feature.

Rumoured Reputation: All of these features are real good flavour wise, but they aren't balanced against each other. I am the Night is too powerful I think, as the Thief only gains advantage on stealth checks if they move less than half movement on their turn, whereas this gives advantage on all dex saves, which is just too powerful. Leading by Example and Fear Itself should be good, as they're about balanced with the thief's 9th level ability. Fear not my Friends is good, but I don't think it's too good. (It's also what I would take if I were playing this subclass.)

Skilled for Two: Extra skills never hurt anyone, especially a rogue.

Superb Reputation: Most of these are really cool! I am the Night definitely needs a nerf, I'd recommend giving what you gave it at 9th (advantage on dex saves) assuming you nerfed it at 9th. For Fear Itself you'd probably just be better off saying "all creatures of your choice" rather than making a distinction between allies, enemies and neutrals. Other than that, these are great!

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Thanks, good stuff! I can definitely sneak at least some of that in there later today.

(EDIT: made changes based on that feedback, added "No Surprises" to lvl 3, hoping it's not a smidgen too strong.)

[Snowben Gaming]

Thanks, good stuff! I can definitely sneak at least some of that in there later today.

You're welcome. Happy to be of help!

[Snowben Gaming]

(EDIT: made changes based on that feedback, added "No Surprises" to lvl 3, hoping it's not a smidgen too strong.)
No Surprises: Doesn't seem OP to me at least. War Wizards add int to initiative at level 2 which will probably be a higher number anyways (and will stay that way (assuming an increase to int mod at all ASI opportunities) until proficiency becomes +6) so that part of the feature seems fine to me. I'm kinda confused about the wording of the second part of the ability, I'm reading it as "you get a turn at the end of the surprise round and then your regular turn at the initiative you rolled on all consecutive turns" but I'm not sure if that's what it's actually supposed to do. If it is, it seems good to go.

I am the Night Revised: Yeah, this is a whole lot better now, non-magic dex saves at 9th and all dex saves at 17th is a whole lot better.

Conclusion: Everything looks pretty cool to me! :smallsmile:

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I'm kinda confused about the wording of the second part of the ability, I'm reading it as "you get a turn at the end of the surprise round and then your regular turn at the initiative you rolled on all consecutive turns" but I'm not sure if that's what it's actually supposed to do. If it is, it seems good to go.

Yes, that's what I meant. Both to make it not quite as strong as going in proper order during the surprise round, and to prevent that awkward situation where the DM goes "okay, so nothing has happened yet, you didn't see anything, it's your turn now."

I'll see what I can do about the wording.

[Snowben Gaming]

Yes, that's what I meant. Both to make it not quite as strong as going in proper order during the surprise round, and to prevent that awkward situation where the DM goes "okay, so nothing has happened yet, you didn't see anything, it's your turn now."

Yeah, that makes sense. It's a pretty cool ability, I just wanted to make sure I understood what it actually did.

[MoleMage]

Well then, I guess I should do my part and give some feedback.
First Metals: This (and the subclass as a whole) does depend on what the metals actually do, so I'll probably give an extra bit of feedback once you've had the time to do them.

Allomantic Reserves: Again, depends on the metals, but assuming that all of the metals require ki to activate, this will be a really good feature.

Augur: This is pretty cool. I do have a question though: when assigning bonus ki from Allomantic Reserves, do you gain 3 gold points per ki point, or just 3 no matter how many ki points you put in. I assume it's the former, but I just figured I'd ask, as the wording doesn't make it clear (at least for me).

Atium: Now this is good. No further comments here.


Thanks for the feedback! I changed Augur's ongoing effect to be "automatically succeed" against ongoing effects instead (they're common but not usually game breaking to escape easily, and it only works if a save is allowed in the first place). Fixed the wording (you do indeed get 3 gold points per bonus ki) also. I wrote the metals; they aren't equal right now but I don't have time to work through them, tried to eyeball it early on. All metals give an active effect costing Ki points, generally fitting a category: Iron/Steel is about offense, Tin/Pewter are saves and abilities, Zinc/Brass are more defensive, and Copper/Bronze are about dealing with magical effects.

[Twelvetrees]

Okay, so both the level 2 features feel like fluff features to me. They are neat and they are thematic, but they won't make a huge difference in the game. There is nothing in there that yells to me, this is what I will be doing all that time that fits the theme and makes me more powerful.

Maybe your house can have a charm affect where while it is standing all creatures within a certain distance must make a save or be charmed and forced to move towards the cottage and spend their action eating it? Or maybe if they do eat it they must make a con save or have their speed slowed for 1 minute (because they are so full of sweet). Something that has either direct or indirect combat implications.

Fatten Them Up - That is a lot of temp hp. When you are level 10 you are giving 50 hp, considering a fighter at that level would have 86 you are adding over 50% more hp to them. This gets to be even more when it's factored into a barbarian who gets damage resistances. Personally, I would look to make this a smaller about and allow you to do it once per person per short rest. That way is has an impact on the game, but it is spread more evenly around. Another possible issue here is the feeding of it to enemies or people that aren't enemies. You can force feed them food and give them disadvantage from your suggestion and charm spells forever basically. The concept is a cool one, but how does the NPC avoid that?

Into the Oven - How many people can be in the oven at once?

Cook and Eat Them - Do my a favor and say that your regain hit points equal to their hit dice (rounded down). That way it's extremely clear that you can't just start throwing CR 1/8 creature in there until you are at full hit points.


So, I don't see an issue with the level 6 and 10 features not working together. Both of the are related to your theme and it makes it so you get a feature when your house has been destroyed.



Thanks for the feedback!

My intention with the House was for it to be more of a way to bar the way for foes than anything else. Charm effects were considered, but I felt that they were likely to be too similar to the School of Enchantment's level two ability. Frankly, I've had difficulty figuring out how effective the ability to create a wall at low levels is.

I changed it to be easier to create and removed the limitation on how often it could be created. Hopefully that makes it more useful.

The other changes I made follow your advice pretty closely.






Just summon a wholeass gingerbread house. I love it, that's hilarious.

Oooh, I like the idea of trading off making enemies tougher to make them softer for your spells, interesting.

How many creatures can fit in the oven at once? Does it affect allies too? And what's the max creature size? That could be pretty OP in the right scenario. Especially since you effectively have to make 2 saving throws in a row to successfully escape the oven, because you make the first save at the end of your turn, then start your turn next to it again forcing another save.

Cook and eat is a bit meh though, although the fact that it fails bag of rats makes it obtusely useful.

Overall a pretty sweet meme subclass lol. :smallbiggrin:



And there's the second comment on the how many creatures can fit in the oven at once... :smalltongue:
Added information on that.

The bag of rats issue has been fixed. Thanks for catching that!

[MoleMage]

I was just getting ready to put the voting thread up when I noticed that I accidentally posted this contest for 3 weeks instead of the customary 4. Extending it an extra week for free, so if you had any edits in the work go ahead and put them up now!

[LumenPlacidum]

Oh, I just posted a subclass for Barbarian that was based on a prestige class from a previous edition of D&D, so I guess it qualifies here? Can I still enter, or has a window closed?

[MoleMage]

Oh, I just posted a subclass for Barbarian that was based on a prestige class from a previous edition of D&D, so I guess it qualifies here? Can I still enter, or has a window closed?

It would qualify, but one of the rules prohibits sharing the subclass outside the contest during the duration. In the past, we've allowed it if the original thread is taken down until the contest concludes, though.

[LumenPlacidum]

No problem! I'll join the next one

[Twelvetrees]

I was just getting ready to put the voting thread up when I noticed that I accidentally posted this contest for 3 weeks instead of the customary 4. Extending it an extra week for free, so if you had any edits in the work go ahead and put them up now!

Woo! I've got time for reviews!

Getting this going with a review of Magitech Mercenary.

I'm not familiar with the Borderlands character, but I think I got a pretty good idea from the features you laid out. This feels like a high-tech soldier who isn't afraid to get their hands dirty.

Mechanics Comments

SNTNL -
Force Slug isn't quite a straightforward as it appears. You're using "weapon attack modifier" to determine its bonus to hit, but which weapon attack modifier does this refer to? You probably want to specify an ability modifier + proficiency bonus. You could do something like 2x PB instead if you wanted to keep it simple to read.

Barrier -

The barrier is translucent, glowing with magic, and can be passed through by creatures. Any creature that is on the same side of the barrier that you are and is within 15 feet of the barrier, receives half-cover and can attack or cast spells through the barrier.
This piece is confusing. I don't think I understand why your position in relation to the barrier matters. It seems like it would be easier to say "The barrier provides half cover to creatures behind it." In addition, the wording you've got also implies that creatures can't normally attack or cast spells thorugh the barrier.

As something else to consider, what happens when you are directly to the side of the barrier?

SNTNL/Barrier/Kill Skill -
Every creature has at least one hit die, so the bit in parenthesis doesn't have any functional impact.

Another!

I gotta admit, Artificer feels like an odd choice of chassis for this. I would have expected ranger, rogue, or fighter. Maybe even monk.

Heh, those are some fun references. :smallsmile:


Mechanics

Spells -
Seems fine, but I didn't delve into the details.

Quick Quiver -
Is there a limit to how many items can fit in the quiver?

Trick Shots -

You may make your proficiency mod number of trick shots per long or short rest.
I'm going to be picky. Can you clean up this wording to make it clear how many of these trick shots you get? It's ambiguous right now.

Legolas' Double Shot -
Is the "spell attack" language here intentional? And how exactly does this work with Trick Shots? My reading is that you'd choose a Trick Shot projectile and then if you decided to make a Double Shot with that projectile, the Trick Shot would vanish into the ether.

Trick Shots -
Boomerang: Does this require another attack roll or does the second attack automatically hit?

Glue: How long does the reduction to movement speed last? What can be done to remove that penalty?

Multishot: This option outclasses every other option that adds damage, especially because you can aim all of the projectiles at a single creature. Hold on, this outclasses Action Surge when it improves. I think this needs something of a nerf. Suggestions: Force them to target multiple creatures or reduce the damage of each projectile.


Overall:
I'm still questioning the choice of Artificer, but the subclass imitaties its source material well. My bar for using homebrew is high, but I'd have no issue with a player who wanted to use this. It seems like it'd be fun.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

It would qualify, but one of the rules prohibits sharing the subclass outside the contest during the duration. In the past, we've allowed it if the original thread is taken down until the contest concludes, though.

Speaking as probably the most recent person who has been allowed to do this: everyone here was very chill about it. I didn't even have the old thread deleted, I just made it a referal to the contest instead. And I can still move the subclass back in there now for purposes of being found if I want to. I got plenty of good feedback here too, which is the real draw.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Okay, so me giving my two cents time. I'm not sure how far I'll get, so I'm starting on the recent end, assuming the first classes posted already got the most feedback.

I'll be saying "I'm not familiar with the source material" a lot in these reviews, which means I have very little idea of how well it connects to the inspiration.

I'm not familiar with the source material.

There's a lot of content here, through the four metal pairings and the two relatively complex powers each pairing grants. Eventually getting 3 out of the 4 pairings strikes a good balance between customization and not missing out on important features, although I feel like the class certainly wouldn't suffer from the addition of a fifth and even sixth pair as options.

I feel like the choice to make every one of these powers cost ki points does a good job of reigning in their power, even with the small amount of extra ki points.

In fact, I feel like the 17th level feature in particular could even use a little more oomph. And extra turn is very nice, but using this power is also a significant investment of resources. I would almost be tempted to make this either cost 6 ki points or be usable only one per day rather than both.

I'm not familiar with the source material. This becomes relevant immediately because at the Dragonstone Transformation section I go "huh, why would dragon powers give you spears and blasts of arcane energy? Why not claws or wings of breath weapons or something connected to dragons? But I'm sure that there is a good connection to the actual inspirational lore here.

An extra skill is nice. Intimidation or persuasions seems like a good thematic choice of two.

Resistance to force damage is exceptional, and on a monster this would make it a strong feature, as force is the damage type you use to hit highly resistant things. But on a PC I think it's quite a fair passive ability, not that many enemies that do force damage. Again, doesn't sound as dragony to me as resistance to fire or lightning or acid or... but enough about my lack of literacy.

The natural weapon counting as magical is fine or even overdue by 10th level, a fighter should do magic weapon damage by then. Especially since the damage is only 1d6, this weapon can certainly use any advantage you can give it.

I think there is a good case to be made for making the arcane blast a bit less strong but removing the restrictions on when you can use it as well (ends your transformation, later on can be used without doing this ones per day). That may provide some flexibility that players may really enjoy. Balance wise I think the current version is good though.

The amount of transformations per day is maybe a little wonky. It starts at three and becomes "unlimited, but no spamming arcane blast" at level 15. I think there is something to be said for a more gradual scale. Maybe start at two per long rest, than one more per short rest at level 7 and than the level 15 power at level 15.

Level 18 seems like a good martial capstone. Your equipment merging with you is even a bit of a penalty sometimes. Given that this is at level 18 I probably wouldn't mind if they could just have this as their every transformation instead of once per day, with maybe only the complete immunity to force damage reduced. But even that's pretty okay in the grand scheme of things. Size large is a little underwhelming for a d&d dragon, but on the other hand I get that from a player perspective it's not great to grow to huge or larger inside a dungeon or such. Maybe an alternative could be giving people a choice at character creation to make the dragon form two size categories larger than their regular size, but then again that delegitimizes the concept that this is a full transformation, a fully transformed dragon shape shouldn't depend on your own size.

[nickl_2000]

I gotta admit, Artificer feels like an odd choice of chassis for this. I would have expected ranger, rogue, or fighter. Maybe even monk.

Heh, those are some fun references. :smallsmile:

Overall:
I'm still questioning the choice of Artificer, but the subclass imitaties its source material well. My bar for using homebrew is high, but I'd have no issue with a player who wanted to use this. It seems like it'd be fun.

Thanks for the overall comments. My idea on Artificer is that you are depending on technology to design and create these arrows, whereas the ranger has more of a mystical connection to it (in my mind). That being said, this could very easily be ported into a ranger subclass were someone to want to do it. As for allowing it at your table, I see that as the highest praise one can give a homebrew class or subclass, so thank you!




Quick Quiver -
Is there a limit to how many items can fit in the quiver?


Nope, this was purposely left empty. Since you can only put projectiles in there, it shouldn't get out of hand. Outside of the hijinks of tavern brawler, it's not that abusable and I feel a DM can curtail the tavern brawler hijinks easily enough.




Trick Shots -

I'm going to be picky. Can you clean up this wording to make it clear how many of these trick shots you get? It's ambiguous right now.



Please be picky, I would rather someone be picky and therefore make it cleaner overall. I changed to wording to match the battlemaster's maneuvers more closely.

"You get proficiency mod trick shots. You regain all of your expended trick shots when you finish a short or long rest."





Legolas' Double Shot -
Is the "spell attack" language here intentional? And how exactly does this work with Trick Shots? My reading is that you'd choose a Trick Shot projectile and then if you decided to make a Double Shot with that projectile, the Trick Shot would vanish into the ether.


It was actually, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I removed the language to make it a normal ranged attack. The intent of this is that you can't use either of these shots as a trick shot. So, I made that much more clear.




Trick Shots -
Boomerang: Does this require another attack roll or does the second attack automatically hit?

Glue: How long does the reduction to movement speed last? What can be done to remove that penalty?

Multishot: This option outclasses every other option that adds damage, especially because you can aim all of the projectiles at a single creature. Hold on, this outclasses Action Surge when it improves. I think this needs something of a nerf. Suggestions: Force them to target multiple creatures or reduce the damage of each projectile.



Added in a 2nd attack roll in boomerang. An auto-hit is not a good thing :)

My intent on glue is that people who failed the save would have their movement reduced by half for one turn. I added a few words in to clarify that more.

Good call on multi-shot, that is totally broken (especially at high level). The concept I was trying to get at with that trick shot is covered by Legolas's Double shot. So, I removed it entirely.






Also a few more entries, so a few more reviews :)



Lurcher - Do you mean if they are "carrying significant amounts of metal"? Or is it wearing only? I was initially worried about the Wisdom check vs other check, but then I saw that you were considered proficient in it. So, it seems perfectly fine to me.

Coinshot - This one confuses me. If you spend a bonus action are you attacking 1 person or 3 people? A bonus action to make a ranged attack for 1 ki makes sense (even 2 since then it will equal flurry of blows). As for the ranged attack, that one confuses me. Does that have a ki cost, or are you just able to do it without a ki cost?

Pewterarm - How long do the temp hp last for? Normal duration (until the next rest)?

Rioter - If there are 5 creatures within 60 feet of you and you spend 3 ki, how do you determine who must make the save? Do you choose?

Allomantic Reserves - Thanks for adding in the line at the end where they are lost. That's an important distinction

Atium - Even better than an action surge. I like this a lot.


This is a really, really good subclass. You get the flavour of the series and abilities down incredibly well, while keeping it both fun and balanced. There are a few minor touch ups needed, but not much at all.





Alter Ego - Is there any mechanical gains you get from this? Does it give people disadvantage on an insight check to figure out who you are? Does it protect you from "Locate" spells or divination spells? It probably doesn't need it anything as this feels mostly flavourful, but I had to ask.

It is unusual that you don't get a bonus action usage for the rogue at level 3. I feel like Alter Ego and Quick Change are more fluff abilities than impactful combat abilities. I wouldn't mind seeing quick change and alter ego combined and a smaller thing be added for a bonus action. Maybe some sort of insult, quip, or other witty dialogue that does something to an opponent?

Rumored Reputation - Fear not my Friends seems pretty weak. You can replicate this ability with a healing kit that costs 2gp for 10 uses. When I saw the name of this, I really expected that it would provide a bonus against fear and charm for your allies.

There is a lot of good fluff and flavour in this subclass. I can feel the Zorro vibes to it. However, it feels a little bit combat light and weak to me. You aren't really giving the rogue much more to do during combat than they get from the base class Rogue. Other ideas that might fit into this theme if you wanted to add more.

Some sort of charm ability - Zorro is a charmer
Vicious Mockery as a bonus action - Insult sword fighting is a thing
Weakened deflect missiles as a reaction - doing amazing things with a sword
Dodge as a bonus action - How do they keep missing with ranged attacks?
Fancy jumps to get through enemy spaces safely

There is nothing bad about this subclass at all. It fits the theme really well and would make a very fun character to roleplay, I just don't feel it would keep up with other pre-existing options.

[RickAsWritten]

Woo! I've got time for reviews!

Getting this going with a review of Magitech Mercenary.

I'm not familiar with the Borderlands character, but I think I got a pretty good idea from the features you laid out. This feels like a high-tech soldier who isn't afraid to get their hands dirty.

Mechanics Comments

SNTNL -
Force Slug isn't quite a straightforward as it appears. You're using "weapon attack modifier" to determine its bonus to hit, but which weapon attack modifier does this refer to? You probably want to specify an ability modifier + proficiency bonus. You could do something like 2x PB instead if you wanted to keep it simple to read.

Good point. I ripped most of the stat block from Tasha's and boogered the revision when porting it to Fighter. Will change.

Barrier -

This piece is confusing. I don't think I understand why your position in relation to the barrier matters. It seems like it would be easier to say "The barrier provides half cover to creatures behind it." In addition, the wording you've got also implies that creatures can't normally attack or cast spells thorugh the barrier.

As something else to consider, what happens when you are directly to the side of the barrier?

Yeah, I really struggled with transitioning this to 5e game terms. I was concerned that simply stating "creatures behind it" would be too simple, but I will edit it. Probably add something about "you choose a front and back of the Barrier and all creatures behind it gain the bonuses."

SNTNL/Barrier/Kill Skill -
Every creature has at least one hit die, so the bit in parenthesis doesn't have any functional impact.

This is my defense-against-the-bag-of-rats-trick clause. All creatures have at least 1 hit die, but a creature that has more than one is going to be more difficult to kill and would require time and resources to "bag of rats."


Thanks for the feedback, lotsa good points. I made notes in italics in the spoiler.

[Snowben Gaming]

I was just getting ready to put the voting thread up when I noticed that I accidentally posted this contest for 3 weeks instead of the customary 4. Extending it an extra week for free, so if you had any edits in the work go ahead and put them up now!
Huh. Cool. I guess I've got time have a proper look at all of the earlier entries (although I'm not sure there's much left to be said.), but first: I have some feedback to respond to.


I'm not familiar with the source material. This becomes relevant immediately because at the Dragonstone Transformation section I go "huh, why would dragon powers give you spears and blasts of arcane energy? Why not claws or wings of breath weapons or something connected to dragons? But I'm sure that there is a good connection to the actual inspirational lore here.Yeah, Corrin (the inspiration) is... weird, all of their dragon powers are water based (but it's specifically magical because it scales with their magic stat, hence force damage, as it has no other defining characteristics that would suggest another damage type. If anyone has a better idea for a damage type, then I'm all ears though) and their arm literally becomes a weird magical energy-based spear-looking thing with stands of... dragon flesh(?) (something physical growing out of them at any rate) wrapped around it.


Resistance to force damage is exceptional, and on a monster this would make it a strong feature, as force is the damage type you use to hit highly resistant things. But on a PC I think it's quite a fair passive ability, not that many enemies that do force damage. Again, doesn't sound as dragony to me as resistance to fire or lightning or acid or... but enough about my lack of literacy.Yeah, I'm glad it's not too OP to just give force resistance flat out, I figured it wouldn't be due to force's rarity, but I just though I'd check.


The natural weapon counting as magical is fine or even overdue by 10th level, a fighter should do magic weapon damage by then. Especially since the damage is only 1d6, this weapon can certainly use any advantage you can give it.

I think there is a good case to be made for making the arcane blast a bit less strong but removing the restrictions on when you can use it as well (ends your transformation, later on can be used without doing this ones per day). That may provide some flexibility that players may really enjoy. Balance wise I think the current version is good though.Hmm... good points. I guess I could probably swap the 7th and 10th level abilities around? But I'm not sure how comfortable I am with the other part of dragonfang (arcane blast not ending the transformation and especially being able to substitute it for the last attack from your extra attack) at 7th level.

Arcane Blast's limitations are because Corrin uses the attack it's based on exclusively as a finisher move in a combo they can do (which is why it's the last attack) and they always ends his transformation after the attack (although they do revert back after his normal attacks as well, so I could remove the bit about it ending your transformation as long as I decrease the damage a bit, as enabling it to be used as part of extra attack is still a good feature in its own right.) But I think I'm gonna leave it alone. For now, at least.

The natural weapon was originally 1d8, but I changed it because it's a light weapon, so you can dual wield (the highest damage a light weapon does is 1d6 iirc). I could always increase its damage back up to 1d8 at 7th or 10th level. Probably 7th and leave the features where they are.


The amount of transformations per day is maybe a little wonky. It starts at three and becomes "unlimited, but no spamming arcane blast" at level 15. I think there is something to be said for a more gradual scale. Maybe start at two per long rest, than one more per short rest at level 7 and than the level 15 power at level 15.
Fair enough, I modelled the uses off the samurai's fighting spirit, although that's probably a terrible idea based on the power difference between the two. I'm not sure how I feel about the certain amounts of uses being regained on different rests though, as that just seems wrong to me, unless you mean something like the wizard's arcane recovery (you still have the same amount of uses but you can regain one on a short rest, but you can only do so once per long rest), in which case, that seems ok. I'll definitely do something about the number of uses though. Proficiency mod uses perhaps? And I've just realised that the transformation is much more in line with the barbarian's rage than it is with anything a fighter subclass gets (albeit with drastically different abilities than rage), and that barbarians don't get unlimited rages until level 20. So now I'm wondering if giving effectively unlimited uses (technically not unlimited as you only get an extra one back when you roll initiative, so if you're in a combat that lasts more than 1 min, you could run out) is way too powerful, so I might limit the initiative recovery to once or twice per long rest and increase the uses of the transformation gradually.


Level 18 seems like a good martial capstone. Your equipment merging with you is even a bit of a penalty sometimes. Given that this is at level 18 I probably wouldn't mind if they could just have this as their every transformation instead of once per day, with maybe only the complete immunity to force damage reduced. But even that's pretty okay in the grand scheme of things. Size large is a little underwhelming for a d&d dragon, but on the other hand I get that from a player perspective it's not great to grow to huge or larger inside a dungeon or such. Maybe an alternative could be giving people a choice at character creation to make the dragon form two size categories larger than their regular size, but then again that delegitimizes the concept that this is a full transformation, a fully transformed dragon shape shouldn't depend on your own size.As for the equipment, I'm gonna change it to what druids get for wild shape (merge, wear or drop). As for uses of full transformation... I could make it all transformations, but I think I'd rather leave it as only a limited amount of transformations (although I could increase it). The size is based on Corrin as he becomes what I can only assume to be large.

Conclusion:I'm probably going to hold off from making any changes just yet, as I want to make sure any change I do make is better than just leaving it.

[Snowben Gaming]

Well, since I said I'd review them when they happened:
For the most part, all of these seem really cool to me, so I don't really have much to say about most of them, so I'll just comment on the ones that I do have actual feedback for.
Pewterarm: Pretty sure someone already mentioned this, but does the temp HP have a time limit or is it just until the next long rest?

Rioter: This counting as the attack action for flurry of blows seems a tad strong (but that may just be me), otherwise, this is fine.

Yeah... that's it from me. I thought I'd have more to say, but then I actually read the metals, and I didn't really have anything much to say.

[Twelvetrees]

Battling Bowman looks good, nickl_2000. I've been turning Emerald Archer over in my mind trying to find anything cheesy but haven't run across anything yet. One more small note: Is the Rocket Trick Shot supposed to increase to 2d8 and 3d8 at higher levels or was the switch from 1d8 to 2d6 and 3d6 intentional?

Magitech Mercenary makes more sense to me now, RickAsWritten. I think I may have misread the pieces about hit dice on my first read because I'm not seeing anything wrong with them when I took another look.


More reviews!

This has a fun flavor, but anything that summons a plethora of creatures makes me nervous. Action economy is king and tilting it in your favor can cause some wild swings in how difficult a fight is.

I'm interested to see the noncombat aspects of this one as well.


Mechanics

Collection of Tomes -
No. This blows the College of Lore's Bonus Proficiencies out of the water in comparison. This is equivalent to proficiency in every skill except Acrobatics, Athletics, Stealth, and Sleight of Hand. But better because it also gives expertise to anything you were already proficient in.

My advice would be to give this a certain number of uses or to copy the Lore Bard feature instead.

Loose Characters -
This is roughly equivalent to using Animate Dead to create skeletons, except at level 3 instead of level 5. It's ridiculously good when first acquired but becomes less and less useful as you continue to gain levels. I don't have good ideas on how to balance this because it has all the usual issues with summoning and trying to pare that back runs directly counter to the aim of this subclass.

Heroism and Villainy -
This preserves the usefulness of Loose Characters for a little longer. Like that feature, it starts out strong then gets less useful. I think I get what you were going for, but I think the Protagonist/Antagonist would need to continue to grow more powerful to really capture the feeling that you've made someone real.

This feature also opens up the option to Bless your party without needing to concentrate. You can create an Acolyte, have them Bless the party and then they can run away from combat. It's low on the cheese scale, but it definitely feels like cheese.

Worlds Collide -
This is cool, but confusing. A couple of comments:

When used in a void, thin air, or on the Astral Plane this feature creates a 40 ft radius sphere of terrain appropriate terrain including a breathable atmosphere and functional versions of structures or vehicles that would have been found there. You can use this feature once and regain its use when you complete a long rest or expend a spell slot of 7th level or above to use it again.
Emphasis mine. What does this mean? Can you create anything you like? If you create terrain in midair, does it fall?

If this effect doesn't target thin air/void/Astral Plane can it go through solid objects? Do you get to choose the terrain for the sections that don't mesh with objects? Can this pass through something like a wall of force?

This is amazing and fits with barbarian really well. I knew I was predisposed to like this subclass when I started coming up with character ideas before I even finished reading it.

I love that it feels like a quintessential barbarian and does so in a way that is distinct from the Berserker.


Mechanics

Titan's Grip -
Gigantic weapons! This works well, especially because it acts like a miniature version of GWM, but I think your calculations from the Q&A section are missing one crucial point: This ability actively encourages using ASIs to bump Constitution instead of Strength. Barbarians already get more out of higher Constitution than any other class. If it increases their accuracy as well, that will probably tip the scale enough for people to make that choice.

Destroyer -
I'm not going to lie, I'm a sucker for terrain destruction. This ability hits the exploration pillar of the game in a way that few other abilities in the game do and makes my imagination churn with the possibilities.

Clash -
This feels really similar to the Berserker's Retaliation, except four levels earlier and better. Even with resistance from rage factoring in after you've already reduced the damage, you've still got a good chance to reduce the damage to zero.

Personally, I think a feature that allowed you to knock foes backwards would serve better at this level.

Titanic Mastery -
Titan's Reach is the only one of these that sticks out to me as unlikely to be chosen. I'm not seeing anything in particular with the rest. Titan's Reach conflicts with Clash and would work better with Sentinel and PM, but taking feats keeps your accuracy low. It's in an awkward spot right now in comparison to the rest and I think an attack ability like the other options would make it a more attractive choice.

Maybe something like adding a rider to knock creatures prone when you make a melee attack? You could limit it to once per turn if it feels too strong to get on every attack.

[nickl_2000]

Battling Bowman looks good, nickl_2000. I've been turning Emerald Archer over in my mind trying to find anything cheesy but haven't run across anything yet. One more small note: Is the Rocket Trick Shot supposed to increase to 2d8 and 3d8 at higher levels or was the switch from 1d8 to 2d6 and 3d6 intentional?



I spent a fair amount of time reading through spells on DNDBeyond to see what wouldn't make sense or would be broken. The most broken things I could think of either required costly components (Find Familiar, Revivify) or concentration (hex, hunter's mark, spirit guardians), or have a longer casting time (Find Steed), this the restrictions. Yet it still leaves lots of options open (suggestion, water breathing, cure wounds, catnap, darkvision, dispel magic, fireball, speak with dead). I think in a game the DM could open a few more options in a spell by spell basis, but how I limited it makes it more viable for general use. I actually see this as more of a utility ability than one that has direct combat implications, which is why I also give the 1 free trick shot and the ranged increments being doubled.

Thanks for noticing the Rocket Trick Shot, that is absolutely a copy/paste typo and wasn't intended.

[BerzerkerUnit]

More reviews!

This has a fun flavor, but anything that summons a plethora of creatures makes me nervous. Action economy is king and tilting it in your favor can cause some wild swings in how difficult a fight is.

I'm interested to see the noncombat aspects of this one as well.


[B]Mechanics

Collection of Tomes -
No. This blows the College of Lore's Bonus Proficiencies out of the water in comparison. This is equivalent to proficiency in every skill except Acrobatics, Athletics, Stealth, and Sleight of Hand. But better because it also gives expertise to anything you were already proficient in.

My advice would be to give this a certain number of uses or to copy the Lore Bard feature instead.

Loose Characters -
This is roughly equivalent to using Animate Dead to create skeletons, except at level 3 instead of level 5. It's ridiculously good when first acquired but becomes less and less useful as you continue to gain levels. I don't have good ideas on how to balance this because it has all the usual issues with summoning and trying to pare that back runs directly counter to the aim of this subclass.

Heroism and Villainy -
This preserves the usefulness of Loose Characters for a little longer. Like that feature, it starts out strong then gets less useful. I think I get what you were going for, but I think the Protagonist/Antagonist would need to continue to grow more powerful to really capture the feeling that you've made someone real.

This feature also opens up the option to Bless your party without needing to concentrate. You can create an Acolyte, have them Bless the party and then they can run away from combat. It's low on the cheese scale, but it definitely feels like cheese.

Worlds Collide -
This is cool, but confusing. A couple of comments:

Emphasis mine. What does this mean? Can you create anything you like? If you create terrain in midair, does it fall?

If this effect doesn't target thin air/void/Astral Plane can it go through solid objects? Do you get to choose the terrain for the sections that don't mesh with objects? Can this pass through something like a wall of force?

Thank you for the feedback!
Collection
I think I will leave it, but require a minute for the benefit to kick in. Yes it’s still amazing, and yes those skills are usually only relevant when you’d have the extra minute, but it’s something a bad guy can take away.

Loose characters
It’s actually significantly worse than animate dead in most respects. Skeletons don’t need to eat or breathe, send them down a hallway to see if it’s trapped is fine, they can’t talk back. The group of helpers this summons can do a most things (certainly fewer problems in towns) but they’re still people. Admittedly when you get it they’ll be amazing till level 7 or so, but then they’re practically the Knight background feature.

Heroism and Villainy
As I recall this also turned your NPC into a turret for your spells? I think that and some of the other options (thug pack tactics) are good enough, especially since the Acolyte can throw some buffs and heals.

Worlds Collide
as written should probably be used as it states otherwise you’re asking the DM to make up rules for it.
so yes, you could summon a small island in the air and drop it. If I were the DM I’d just turn the 8d10 force into 8d10 bludgeoning and create rough terrain (a downgrade from the mandatory half move without acrobatics check and loss of cover).

No, you don’t get to choose what gets hit beyond “not these creatures.” So it’s pretty cool to go to a town besieged by undead and drop it stating “no living creatures” and nuke just the monsters, though the townies might not appreciate how a whole bunch of fantasy houses are sticking out of their houses at odd angles with corpses or undead fused into them afterward.

It’s utility really ends at “basic equipment, vehicles, and shelters in places where none exist” and in combat it creates a damage dealing restraining obstacle course.

I will try and tighten up the language though.

[Phhase]

Some minor Pyro tweaks:

Burn damage at the end of the turn rather than the beginning.
Stipulation for ignition is now "Once per spell, per creture, per turn", so that a creature hit by 5 Flaming Missiles is set on fire once, but hitting someone with a weapon set on fire by Arcane Weapon 2 turns in a row adds 2 burn.

Interesting note - if you're out of spell slots, you could use alchemist's fire to trigger Slice the Wick!

[Twelvetrees]

Speaking of the Pyro, I've got a review for it.

This is going to be silly, isn't it? Oh, good. :smallamused:

I'm surprised at the choice of sorcerer for the chassis, given that spells will give the character many more options than burning everything to a crisp. I feel like it dilutes the strength of the concept, but it's time to find out.

Mechanics

Flame Magic -
This is useful for getting fire-themed spells but given the subclasses in Tasha's I'm surprised you're not giving these as bonus spells known.

When all you have is a match -
I'm not sure this is a benefit at all. It makes your magic really hot and burning, but devils and anything fire resistant or immune are going to give you nightmares.

Consuming Inferno -
The longer a fight goes, the better this is. Its baseline use is worse than the Draconic sorcerer's Elemental Affinity, but given enough time, it's better. I'm cautiously saying this is balanced, but this is an ability I'd be keeping a close eye on in an actual game.

Slice the Wick -
I'm confused by this feature. Can you explain it? Most sorcerers aren't going to be great with weapons and nothing else in this subclass makes you better with them. Everything else focuses on your spells. Could this be replaced by some sort of spell attack in melee?

Everything Burns -
Soulflame and Magnesius Rage are obviously the best choices among the bunch. Imposing conditions at will that can't be saved against and have to be removed with an action is extremely strong. At a minimum, if you don't change the effects in any other way, I think they need saving throws to remove the penalty at the end of their turn. Soulflame could likely be limited to one type of save instead.

Here's one for the Way of the Mists as well.

It's always interesting to see allomancer homebrew because it's so difficult to do right. The sheer number of options are hard to fit into a subclass and they aren't really balanced against one another, so I'm looking forward to seeing what approach you took.

Mechanics

Allomantic Reserves and Augur -
No real comments here. More ki, some healing, and boosts to saves feels like typical monk features.

Atium -
Given that Thief rogues get a very similar ability at the same level and can use it every fight, I see no issue with making this recharge on short rests.

The Metals -
Pewterarm: That's a lot of temporary hit points you can give to yourself, especially if you have any ki points left over before you take a short rest. It almost doubles your effective hit points, which means it's probably too strong. I'd suggest limiting how many ki points you can spend on this or making the temporary hit points vanish after an hour to prevent spamming it before resting.

Smoker: How would a creature not be aware that their spell was foiled if they were using something like Detect Thoughts on a creature in the cloud?

Copper and Bronze: Unless you need to boost your party's Stealth, these don't appear to be that attractive of options in comparison to the other options. They give benefits in specific situations only, unlike many of the other metals and could use a boost.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Alter Ego - Is there any mechanical gains you get from this? Does it give people disadvantage on an insight check to figure out who you are? Does it protect you from "Locate" spells or divination spells? It probably doesn't need it anything as this feels mostly flavourful, but I had to ask.

It is unusual that you don't get a bonus action usage for the rogue at level 3. I feel like Alter Ego and Quick Change are more fluff abilities than impactful combat abilities. I wouldn't mind seeing quick change and alter ego combined and a smaller thing be added for a bonus action. Maybe some sort of insult, quip, or other witty dialogue that does something to an opponent?

Rumored Reputation - Fear not my Friends seems pretty weak. You can replicate this ability with a healing kit that costs 2gp for 10 uses. When I saw the name of this, I really expected that it would provide a bonus against fear and charm for your allies.

There is a lot of good fluff and flavour in this subclass. I can feel the Zorro vibes to it. However, it feels a little bit combat light and weak to me. You aren't really giving the rogue much more to do during combat than they get from the base class Rogue. Other ideas that might fit into this theme if you wanted to add more.

Some sort of charm ability - Zorro is a charmer
Vicious Mockery as a bonus action - Insult sword fighting is a thing
Weakened deflect missiles as a reaction - doing amazing things with a sword
Dodge as a bonus action - How do they keep missing with ranged attacks?
Fancy jumps to get through enemy spaces safely

There is nothing bad about this subclass at all. It fits the theme really well and would make a very fun character to roleplay, I just don't feel it would keep up with other pre-existing options.



P.S. I haven't forgotten about this, thanks for the feedback! Nor have I forgotten about my promise to check at least some more competitors out. But the time I have for this stuff always seems to slip away for some reason. Going to give it a try on Sunday.

[Phhase]

Speaking of the Pyro, I've got a review for it.

This is going to be silly, isn't it? Oh, good. :smallamused:

I'm surprised at the choice of sorcerer for the chassis, given that spells will give the character many more options than burning everything to a crisp. I feel like it dilutes the strength of the concept, but it's time to find out.

Mechanics

Flame Magic -
This is useful for getting fire-themed spells but given the subclasses in Tasha's I'm surprised you're not giving these as bonus spells known.

When all you have is a match -
I'm not sure this is a benefit at all. It makes your magic really hot and burning, but devils and anything fire resistant or immune are going to give you nightmares.

Consuming Inferno -
The longer a fight goes, the better this is. Its baseline use is worse than the Draconic sorcerer's Elemental Affinity, but given enough time, it's better. I'm cautiously saying this is balanced, but this is an ability I'd be keeping a close eye on in an actual game.

Slice the Wick -
I'm confused by this feature. Can you explain it? Most sorcerers aren't going to be great with weapons and nothing else in this subclass makes you better with them. Everything else focuses on your spells. Could this be replaced by some sort of spell attack in melee?

Everything Burns -
Soulflame and Magnesius Rage are obviously the best choices among the bunch. Imposing conditions at will that can't be saved against and have to be removed with an action is extremely strong. At a minimum, if you don't change the effects in any other way, I think they need saving throws to remove the penalty at the end of their turn. Soulflame could likely be limited to one type of save instead.

Thank! I appreciate :smallbiggrin:.
I may have just made it unclear, those are bonus spells known, I just didn't use a table to organize them since there weren't enough.

The idea behind When All You Have is kinda of an intentional gimp. This way, it enforces the fire flavor, leaves room for power elsewhere, and increases synergy with Consuming Inferno. And if you really, really, really need something that isn't fire damage, you can still use Metamagic to change the element. That's part of why I picked sorcerer, as well as the fact that you can also get spells that don't have to do with burning things so you're you have a little utility outside of your gimmick.

Slice the Wick is the imported version of Pyro's Flare Gun and Axtinguisher. You trade momentary safety for a powerful finishing move with the potential to kill your opponent outright, solving the matter of the danger you put your fragile self in - if you're careful with it. This is something you'll want to use after stacking burn on your opponent several times, so that you cash out a fat stack of fire damage (the burn damage is maximized!). Additionally, while it is admittedly an edge case, a guaranteed critical hit can be very powerful, especially if you have rogue levels (Sneak Attack), paladin levels (any Smite), or warlock (Eldritch Smite). I was actually more worried about this being a problem than anything else.

Are they, though? I see your point on Soulflame's saves, what about a flat penalty instead? As to Magnesious Rage, while blinding is a good condition, I contest that other options are also pretty good. Sonic has serious AoE potential, more monsters can heal than you think, and poison causes them to be on fire no matter what - even underwater. Consider that if you blind someone and don't move position immediately after, they can still attack you at disadvantage, and there's nothing that says enemies can't put each other out or find some other way to defend against burning.

[Twelvetrees]

The idea behind When All You Have is kinda of an intentional gimp.
That makes more sense now. I appreciate the elaboration.


Slice the Wick is the imported version of Pyro's Flare Gun and Axtinguisher. You trade momentary safety for a powerful finishing move with the potential to kill your opponent outright, solving the matter of the danger you put your fragile self in - if you're careful with it. This is something you'll want to use after stacking burn on your opponent several times, so that you cash out a fat stack of fire damage (the burn damage is maximized!). Additionally, while it is admittedly an edge case, a guaranteed critical hit can be very powerful, especially if you have rogue levels (Sneak Attack), paladin levels (any Smite), or warlock (Eldritch Smite). I was actually more worried about this being a problem than anything else.
On a pure Sorcerer, it's likely underpowered. A few maximized d4s doesn't add up to a lot of damage, even when added to a weapon crit. I'd guess it would be a bit better than casting firebolt. The fact that it works best with multiclassing means I'm going to reiterate my question from before: Could you replace this with a special melee spell attack that does more damage based on how much damage the creature is taking from being on fire?


Are they, though? I see your point on Soulflame's saves, what about a flat penalty instead? As to Magnesious Rage, while blinding is a good condition, I contest that other options are also pretty good.

A flat penalty would be an improvement to Soulflame, yes.

I'm doubling down on my assertion that they're better for a couple of reasons - consistency and power. Piranha Solution is the only other option to offer the same consistency and 1 more damage per burn isn't on the same level at all. Every other option is contingent on something being true.

Right now, Soulflame is a free Heighten on all mental saves on every creature that is burning. It can only be removed by a creature taking an action, roughly the equivalent of becoming Incapacitated for one round. Magnesius Rage gives your allies advantage to attack any time you set a creature on fire, which will be all the time. Nigh-permanent advantage on attacks is strong.


More reviews!

A draconic fighter is not something I can remember seeing before, so I'm curious how you're going to go about this.

Mechanics

Dragonstone Transformation -
+1 to AC is good, but needing to use light or Medium armor means this just puts you on equal footing with heavy armor. The rest of these abilities are cool, but feel underpowered. The weapon is a little bit better than a whip and Arcane Blast is comparable to a Dragonborn's breath weapon (which is generally seen as underpowered). Arcane Blast is probably fine, but would you consider bumping the damage die of the arcane spear to 1d8?

Edit: I noticed I'm directly contradicting an earlier comment from nickl_2000, so I'm going to math this out and compare to the Battle Master.

At 3rd level, a Battle Master using a whip can do an extra 4d8 damage with it, average of 18. With the arcane spear doing 1d6 (and an average of 1 more damage per hit than a whip), it would take 18 attacks to draw even.

At 11th level, the Battle Master does 5d10, for an average of 27.5 damage. The arcane spear will take an equal number of attacks to draw even and even at three attacks a turn, it still takes 9 rounds.

At 20th level, the Battle Master does 6d12, for an average of 39 damage. The arcane spear at four attacks a turn will take 10 rounds to draw even.

With the damage being 1d8, 3rd level is closer (9 attacks), 11th level is a reasonable 4-5 rounds, and 20th level is 5 rounds.
I'm standing by my statement: It could be bumped up to 1d8.


Is there a reason the transformation has a specific number of uses instead of being based off an ability modifier?

This feature does an excellent job of showing your draconic nature, which is really cool.

Blood of the First Dragons -
That's an uncommon resistance and it continues your established theme. Balanced and good synergy.

Dragonfang -
Oh, that's cool. The math of Arcane Blast in place of an attack is quite on par with a Battle Master using all of their Superiority Dice to add to damage. 4d6 to ~2 creatures versus 5d10 total damage to single creatures. It's even a little weaker because of the saves.

Spamming Arcane Blast at this level is no issue and I like that the option now exists to do so.

Dragon-kin -
Woohoo, flying Fighter!


Overall
Everything works together well and builds atop what has come before. I'm looking forward to seeing what else you can do with subclasses in future competitions.

From the description, I'm hearing what sounds like Assassin and Swashbuckler features. I'm interested to see how you differentiate this build.

Mechanics

Alter Ego -
Ah ha! Calling out the disguise as clearly a disguise works brilliantly to distinguish this subclass from anything that the Assassin gets and fits really well with the media you're imitating. Cool.

Quick Change -
*snort* Heh, this is a fluff feature that hits the exact note you want with this subclass. It's not likely to see much use in play, but when it does it'll be awesome.

No Surprises -
I'm not seeing any issues with this at low levels but Reliable Talent will apply to your initiative rolls at 11th level and higher now. Given that none of your other subclass abilities gain a benefit from going early in the initiative order, I'm cautiously optimistic about this.

Rumored Reputation -
Leading by Example and Fear Itself have vague wording. It would be more straightforward to just give advantage on the associated checks and then follow that statement up with the descriptor so players don't have to justify why they should have advantage on each check. Something like "While wearing your disguise you have advantage on Persuasion checks. Your stirring words call people to action" for Leading by Example.

Fear not my Friends is quite weak for a 9th level feature, especially when in direct comparison to advantage on skill checks. I think you could get away with giving an ability that provides a small amount of actual healing. You could also improve their ability to use Spare the Dying in some fashion.

Skilled for Two -
More skills at this level aren't quite as exciting as they are at lower levels, especially for a rogue who likely is already proficient in the skills they care about. If you want to do something with skills, can I suggest an ability that implies such a character's flair for the dramatic, allowing them to add their Charisma modifier to a skill?

Superb Reputation -
Being locked into this feature based on your level 9 choice feels bad.

Superb Leading by Example: This is extremely open ended. If you've called some of the other characters to action once, can you use this ability at will as long as you remain within 60 feet of one of them?

Superb Fear not my Friends: This is underpowered for 17th level. It's equivalent to feeding someone a Goodberry. There's so much untapped potential for wild abilities at this point in the game, so throw something spectacular out there, like a Revivify equivalent at will.

I'm feeling trepidation with this one. Trade-offs can cause a character's effectiveness to swing wildly back and forth, so I'm hoping your accounted for that in some fashion.

Mechanics

Blood Frenzy -

Removing damage resistances hacks away at the core idea of a 5e barbarian and acts as a huge penalty. I was aware something like this was coming, so I'm hoping the survival and endurance aspects are brought back somewhere else.
The damage bonus is about 0.5 damage more now. Okay, that's not much.
More crits means more damage, that makes sense.
Improved damage when at low health. You'd mentioned that in the description.

It looks like you end up with a little bit better damage than a Zealot when at low health at the cost of losing damage resistances. That doesn't seem like a great trade-off, especially because damage resistance is something barbarians are known for. Encouraging being at low health is also counter to how health usually works and will embolden players to yo-yo heal such a barbarian and for such a barbarian to remain at low health instead of healing to full.

Could you pare this back and keep the damage resistances but lower the bonus damage?

Devour -
I'm not a big fan of being dependent on killing high CR monsters to make best use of this feature. The effectiveness of this is entirely out of the player's control. I get why you've done this so I don't think a suggestion to avoid using CR to balance this will help.

Aura of Pain and Terrifying Fury both encourage being at low health as well and I'm convinced by this point that more benefits at low health will cause detrimental behavior to game play.


Overall

A Reaver is most effective at 1 hit point. All of their subclass abilities except Devour work best at low health and even Devour benefits tangentially because you can kill foes faster and trigger it more. Having one member of the party who wants to be at really low health plays all kinds of havoc with the game expectations. I fear that Reaver characters would have an unusually high death rate because of the inherent risky play they promote.

Despite all of my comments, you accomplished what you set out to do: Making a character that works best when close to death, so kudos for that.

[Snowben Gaming]

A draconic fighter is not something I can remember seeing before, so I'm curious how you're going to go about this.

Mechanics

Dragonstone Transformation -
+1 to AC is good, but needing to use light or Medium armor means this just puts you on equal footing with heavy armor. The rest of these abilities are cool, but feel underpowered. The weapon is a little bit better than a whip and Arcane Blast is comparable to a Dragonborn's breath weapon (which is generally seen as underpowered). Arcane Blast is probably fine, but would you consider bumping the damage die of the arcane spear to 1d8?

Edit: I noticed I'm directly contradicting an earlier comment from nickl_2000, so I'm going to math this out and compare to the Battle Master.

At 3rd level, a Battle Master using a whip can do an extra 4d8 damage with it, average of 18. With the arcane spear doing 1d6 (and an average of 1 more damage per hit than a whip), it would take 18 attacks to draw even.

At 11th level, the Battle Master does 5d10, for an average of 27.5 damage. The arcane spear will take an equal number of attacks to draw even and even at three attacks a turn, it still takes 9 rounds.

At 20th level, the Battle Master does 6d12, for an average of 39 damage. The arcane spear at four attacks a turn will take 10 rounds to draw even.

With the damage being 1d8, 3rd level is closer (9 attacks), 11th level is a reasonable 4-5 rounds, and 20th level is 5 rounds.
I'm standing by my statement: It could be bumped up to 1d8.


Is there a reason the transformation has a specific number of uses instead of being based off an ability modifier?

This feature does an excellent job of showing your draconic nature, which is really cool.
Well, the math has spoken: back to 1d8 it is. As for basing the uses off an ability mod: That is a good idea, I guess Con would make the most sense?


Blood of the First Dragons -
That's an uncommon resistance and it continues your established theme. Balanced and good synergy.

Dragonfang -
Oh, that's cool. The math of Arcane Blast in place of an attack is quite on par with a Battle Master using all of their Superiority Dice to add to damage. 4d6 to ~2 creatures versus 5d10 total damage to single creatures. It's even a little weaker because of the saves.

Spamming Arcane Blast at this level is no issue and I like that the option now exists to do so.

Dragon-kin -
Woohoo, flying Fighter!


Overall
Everything works together well and builds atop what has come before. I'm looking forward to seeing what else you can do with subclasses in future competitions.
Thanks! I'm glad everything holds up. I'm real excited to do more of these competitions, they're really fun.

[Ilerien]

Mechanics

Blood Frenzy -

Removing damage resistances hacks away at the core idea of a 5e barbarian and acts as a huge penalty. I was aware something like this was coming, so I'm hoping the survival and endurance aspects are brought back somewhere else.
The damage bonus is about 0.5 damage more now. Okay, that's not much.
More crits means more damage, that makes sense.
Improved damage when at low health. You'd mentioned that in the description.

It looks like you end up with a little bit better damage than a Zealot when at low health at the cost of losing damage resistances. That doesn't seem like a great trade-off, especially because damage resistance is something barbarians are known for. Encouraging being at low health is also counter to how health usually works and will embolden players to yo-yo heal such a barbarian and for such a barbarian to remain at low health instead of healing to full.

Could you pare this back and keep the damage resistances but lower the bonus damage?

Devour -
I'm not a big fan of being dependent on killing high CR monsters to make best use of this feature. The effectiveness of this is entirely out of the player's control. I get why you've done this so I don't think a suggestion to avoid using CR to balance this will help.

Aura of Pain and Terrifying Fury both encourage being at low health as well and I'm convinced by this point that more benefits at low health will cause detrimental behavior to game play.


Overall

A Reaver is most effective at 1 hit point. All of their subclass abilities except Devour work best at low health and even Devour benefits tangentially because you can kill foes faster and trigger it more. Having one member of the party who wants to be at really low health plays all kinds of havoc with the game expectations. I fear that Reaver characters would have an unusually high death rate because of the inherent risky play they promote.

Despite all of my comments, you accomplished what you set out to do: Making a character that works best when close to death, so kudos for that Thanks for the review! :)
All the points you've made here are very much valid (except the one with most effectiveness at 1 HP - a reaver has admittedly narrow window from 1 to barb level HP). It's just... not much could be done when the core idea of the subclass is "it kills better when at low health". Removing resistances actually helps a reaver to reach half hit points more quickly.
The features tend to hand control from a player over to the DM/chance/etc., but it's nothing new in 5e. Wild magic sorcerer is a textbook example.
I have a couple ideas to tweak it a bit.
First, upgrade the damage bonus to d6/d8/d10 so it's more in line with zealot's damage output. Though the zealot doesn't get that fancy crit range improvement.
Second, give some bonus or advantage to death saves?..
Both merit consideration, but I'm unsure if I should implement them.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Going for "I know this source material!" this time, rather than sticking to the reverse order.

I know this source material!

Mystical cook is good for flavor. Gingerbread house is silly, but not unbalanced. It seems fun!

Fatten them up seems good.

Into the Oven is... confusing me. It turns the house from a goodberry alternative and a werid thematic shelter for the night into some sort of trap. It looks like it works both mechanically and thematically, I just have trouble seeing all the applications and the actual power of this here. It feels a bit strong. Then again, it's for a tenth level wizard, those are strong...

Cook and Eat them is... Don't change it. This is the only place this subclass should go. That just makes me more comflicted about Into the Oven. This feature is certainly not OP in itself, just adding a little bit of healing.

I know this source material too! Although the one time I've read the whole thing through was before the movies even came out, so...

The bonus spells are good picks.

Hands of a healer seems super strong for a 3rd level feature. Not in a vacuum maybe, but in combination with any half decent healer in the same party? That's massiveT Up to 2x the average hit points, dependably. The extra skill here is fine.

Typically ranger subclasses get a defensive feature at level 7 and an offensive one at level 11, when the fighter gains a third attack and cantrip damage goes up. I do not disagree with these two having been switched around, their power level seems fitting like this, but it is atypical. Ancient Lore in particular feels very thematic too.

Return of the King is a very good ability too, can turn a fight around up to several times per day. Rangers have a bit of an early subclass capstone at level 15, which makes this close to overpowered for that level. Then again, having a high wisdom stat as a ranger is a significant investment, so it's probably okay overall.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Alter Ego - Is there any mechanical gains you get from this? Does it give people disadvantage on an insight check to figure out who you are? Does it protect you from "Locate" spells or divination spells? It probably doesn't need it anything as this feels mostly flavourful, but I had to ask.

It is unusual that you don't get a bonus action usage for the rogue at level 3. I feel like Alter Ego and Quick Change are more fluff abilities than impactful combat abilities. I wouldn't mind seeing quick change and alter ego combined and a smaller thing be added for a bonus action. Maybe some sort of insult, quip, or other witty dialogue that does something to an opponent?

Rumored Reputation - Fear not my Friends seems pretty weak. You can replicate this ability with a healing kit that costs 2gp for 10 uses. When I saw the name of this, I really expected that it would provide a bonus against fear and charm for your allies.

There is a lot of good fluff and flavour in this subclass. I can feel the Zorro vibes to it. However, it feels a little bit combat light and weak to me. You aren't really giving the rogue much more to do during combat than they get from the base class Rogue. Other ideas that might fit into this theme if you wanted to add more.

Some sort of charm ability - Zorro is a charmer
Vicious Mockery as a bonus action - Insult sword fighting is a thing
Weakened deflect missiles as a reaction - doing amazing things with a sword
Dodge as a bonus action - How do they keep missing with ranged attacks?
Fancy jumps to get through enemy spaces safely

There is nothing bad about this subclass at all. It fits the theme really well and would make a very fun character to roleplay, I just don't feel it would keep up with other pre-existing options.



I added the missing clarification that Fear not my Friends takes a bonus action to use, like the spell I was basing it on. I agree that without that part it is weak. I added a Chandelier Swinger "showoff" option for the reputation features (alongside the existing leader of the masses, team player, lone wolf surviving stuff and scary person options), as well as the option to at level 17 take 2 extra level 9 features instead of an upgrade to the feature you already have. Dodge as a bonus action sounds really thematic and I want to put it in... I just feel like maybe it's a bit much and now the character is just permanently resistant (well, sort of, after a fashion) to all damage.

If I have another epiphany or change my mind on the dodge before the voting thread goes up I might sneak in something else.

I kind of wish I was making a base class or something, so I could just stuff all of these weak but kind of fun ideas into it.

[Twelvetrees]

I know this source material!

Mystical cook is good for flavor. Gingerbread house is silly, but not unbalanced. It seems fun!

Fatten them up seems good.

Into the Oven is... confusing me. It turns the house from a goodberry alternative and a werid thematic shelter for the night into some sort of trap. It looks like it works both mechanically and thematically, I just have trouble seeing all the applications and the actual power of this here. It feels a bit strong. Then again, it's for a tenth level wizard, those are strong...

Cook and Eat them is... Don't change it. This is the only place this subclass should go. That just makes me more comflicted about Into the Oven. This feature is certainly not OP in itself, just adding a little bit of healing.

Thanks for the review!

I should point out that you don't have to add an oven to the house when you create it, which preserves its original usages. I wanted some way to make sure the oven from the story made an appearance and because I already have this subclass creating the house, I thought having the option to add an oven would work.

Would it make more sense to remove the line about being able to automatically succeed on the saving throw? If I did that a Cannibal Witch could end up in their own oven and I'd have a stronger thematic connection to the original fairy tale.


This ought to be interesting. My first thought is that you'll need to differentiate it from the Hunter subclass somehow because this reads like another archetypal ranger. Time to dig into the details and see how that went!

Mechanics

Dunedain Magic -
I was expecting more nature-based magic, but spells that emphasize leadership and force of presence make sense. I am a little bit worried that because all but one of them require Concentration, they won't see a ton of use.

Dunedain Endurance -
I don't know how to judge the balance of this. It's really strong in it's niche, but doesn't do anything if exhaustion doesn't come up in game. I'd probably categorize it as a mostly fluff ability, in which case it works well for its purpose

Hands of a Healer -
Subtly strong. This feature allows your party to stretch their resources out much longer and keeps everyone on their feet with ease. I am wondering if you intentionally left out some sources of healing by specifying that the healing had to be from spells or hit dice. It doesn't look like this feature would apply to a Celestial Warlock's Healing Light feature, for example.

Ancient Lore -
This ability runs into the usual issue ranger from previous editions of the game had to deal with. Namely, not being able to use it when the creature type you chose isn't present.

The Foe option becomes incredibly strong when the creature type you chose is present. Always-on advantage on attacks is better than the defining ability of Vengeance Paladins.

Given the source material, would you instead consider a feature that allows you to call ghostly undead to serve you?

Will of the Dunedain -
Rangers usually gain some ability at this level that gives them more attacks or more attack options, so passive benefits are a little unusual. That being said, immunity to charm and fear nullifies some of the most potent effects that can be used against you. I think you could get away with adding some sort of minor active ability as well.

The Return of the King -
Cool. I'm not seeing any issues.


Overall
I think the source material is imitated pretty well and thought it was intriguing that you managed to convey leadership ability without the need for Charisma.

This sounds extremely similar to the Draconic Bloodline but feeding off the elements is new. I'm expecting that this subclass will explore that aspect in detail. Time to see if I'm right.

Mechanics

Dragon Link -
This reads like an improved version of the Draconic Bloodline subclass's 1st level features.

I think you could do something to give different draconic abilities instead, like a dragon's senses or their tail/claws/teeth.

Draconic Element -
An at-will ability to take no damage from your chosen element at 1st level is ludicrously powerful, not least because it's in addition to the aforementioned feature.

This probably needs to be bumped up to be a feature you receive at a higher level if you're trying to have this subclass be on par with other sorcerer subclasses.

Elemental Dragon's Roar -
The name tricked me into thinking this was going to be a fear effect. Other than that, I think this is cool. It's a dragon's breath weapon.

Dracoelemental Body -
Again, this reminds me of the Draconic Bloodline but improved. This is much later in your progression, but it still feels like retreading old ground.

Dragon Force -
I understand why most of these bullet points are present. The resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing is one I don't. What draconic aspect is it supposed to represent? A dragon's toughness? I usually imagine scales deflecting blows for dragons instead of meaty hide that absorbs any hit.

[CountDVB]

This sounds extremely similar to the Draconic Bloodline but feeding off the elements is new. I'm expecting that this subclass will explore that aspect in detail. Time to see if I'm right.

Mechanics

Dragon Link -
This reads like an improved version of the Draconic Bloodline subclass's 1st level features.

I think you could do something to give different draconic abilities instead, like a dragon's senses or their tail/claws/teeth.

Draconic Element -
An at-will ability to take no damage from your chosen element at 1st level is ludicrously powerful, not least because it's in addition to the aforementioned feature.

This probably needs to be bumped up to be a feature you receive at a higher level if you're trying to have this subclass be on par with other sorcerer subclasses.

Elemental Dragon's Roar -
The name tricked me into thinking this was going to be a fear effect. Other than that, I think this is cool. It's a dragon's breath weapon.

Dracoelemental Body -
Again, this reminds me of the Draconic Bloodline but improved. This is much later in your progression, but it still feels like retreading old ground.

Dragon Force -
I understand why most of these bullet points are present. The resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing is one I don't. What draconic aspect is it supposed to represent? A dragon's toughness? I usually imagine scales deflecting blows for dragons instead of meaty hide that absorbs any hit.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it's a dragon's toughness. This takes inspiration from the anime/manga Fairy Tail, specifcially those who use Dragon Slayer Magic, such as the protagonist Natsu. See here if you see what I mean (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keOG816wTxk)

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Would it make more sense to remove the line about being able to automatically succeed on the saving throw? If I did that a Cannibal Witch could end up in their own oven and I'd have a stronger thematic connection to the original fairy tale. True, true. It would also be weirder to properly use as a class feature.

I don't actually really mind having some form of security in your shelter. I mostly feel out of depth judging where this falls on a power scale.

[Lvl45DM!]

Thanks for the review!

This ought to be interesting. My first thought is that you'll need to differentiate it from the Hunter subclass somehow because this reads like another archetypal ranger. Time to dig into the details and see how that went!

Mechanics

Dunedain Magic -
I was expecting more nature-based magic, but spells that emphasize leadership and force of presence make sense. I am a little bit worried that because all but one of them require Concentration, they won't see a ton of use.

Dunedain Endurance -
I don't know how to judge the balance of this. It's really strong in it's niche, but doesn't do anything if exhaustion doesn't come up in game. I'd probably categorize it as a mostly fluff ability, in which case it works well for its purpose

Hands of a Healer -
Subtly strong. This feature allows your party to stretch their resources out much longer and keeps everyone on their feet with ease. I am wondering if you intentionally left out some sources of healing by specifying that the healing had to be from spells or hit dice. It doesn't look like this feature would apply to a Celestial Warlock's Healing Light feature, for example.

Ancient Lore -
This ability runs into the usual issue ranger from previous editions of the game had to deal with. Namely, not being able to use it when the creature type you chose isn't present.

The Foe option becomes incredibly strong when the creature type you chose is present. Always-on advantage on attacks is better than the defining ability of Vengeance Paladins.

Given the source material, would you instead consider a feature that allows you to call ghostly undead to serve you?

Will of the Dunedain -
Rangers usually gain some ability at this level that gives them more attacks or more attack options, so passive benefits are a little unusual. That being said, immunity to charm and fear nullifies some of the most potent effects that can be used against you. I think you could get away with adding some sort of minor active ability as well.

The Return of the King -
Cool. I'm not seeing any issues.


Yes this went under several revisions before even posting because thematically its just...a Ranger. THE Ranger maybe, but still.

I did realize that they are Concentration, but I figured Rangers dont cast that many spells in combat usually. They'll slap on their strongest one and go to work. Besides, Aragorn don't be casting often, so Concentration spells seemed apt.

Endurance is mostly fluff, but also it can make the Ranger stand out in nasty wilderness survival games.

Hands of a Healer, well I didnt want to balance it with every possible version of healing so I simplified it. I always feel like rangers are like thieves from early editions, at their strongest outside of combat so thats what this is for.

Ancient Lore...Yeah I do dislike the limitations of needing your enemy there. Hrng.
Ok I adjusted it. Removed the rider affect from Friend, weakened advantage from Foe, and added Fell Power, for activatable Resistance whenever you want. Its not strong, but its neat.

Will of the Dunedain now lets them cast Command a few times as a bonus action.



[spoiler="The Dunedain Ranger"]I know this source material too! Although the one time I've read the whole thing through was before the movies even came out, so...

The bonus spells are good picks.

Hands of a healer seems super strong for a 3rd level feature. Not in a vacuum maybe, but in combination with any half decent healer in the same party? That's massive Up to 2x the average hit points, dependably. The extra skill here is fine.

Typically ranger subclasses get a defensive feature at level 7 and an offensive one at level 11, when the fighter gains a third attack and cantrip damage goes up. I do not disagree with these two having been switched around, their power level seems fitting like this, but it is atypical. Ancient Lore in particular feels very thematic too.

Return of the King is a very good ability too, can turn a fight around up to several times per day. Rangers have a bit of an early subclass capstone at level 15, which makes this close to overpowered for that level. Then again, having a high wisdom stat as a ranger is a significant investment, so it's probably okay overall.

Thanks. Maybe I'll limit Hands of a Healer to Wis mod people/long rest. So you cant just short rest after every little skirmish and gain the advantage.

Yeah I know how rangers normally go, but the ideas suit the levels better. So yknow, screw normal.

Cheers guys.

[MoleMage]

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?628592-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XXI-Voting-Thread

Voting is upon us!

[nickl_2000]

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?628592-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XXI-Voting-Thread

Voting is upon us!

Will be voting soon, but just so you know you gave Barbarian: Path of the Titan a bit of a bonus this time around (copy and paste error) :smallwink:



Battling Bowman Artificer - Now this is some good stuff. I'd play this... Heck, I might actually ask my DM if I can next time I need a character.


Thanks, and please do if you can. If you do, I would absolutely love to hear how it played and could/should be adjusted.

[Damon_Tor]

will be voting soon, but just so you know you gave barbarian: Path of the titan a bit of a bonus this time around (copy and paste error) :smallwink:

Such is the power!

[CountDVB]

2 days left everyone for this one!

[MoleMage]

Hokay calling it now. Sorry for my late vote, I got caught up in yardwork yesterday during my usual computing time (darn springtime).

We had some breakout entries this time, scoring far ahead of the otherwise fairly equal distribution.

Our third place winner, with 14 points tallied, MoleMage's Way of the Mists! You don't need to eat metal, your ki has you covered.

Our second place winner, with 18 points tallied (and a whopping 4 picks for first place), Damon_Tor's Path of the Titan! I guess we all just really wanted giant weapons.

And our first place winner, with 19 points tallied (receiving a vote from 9 out of 13 voters), nickl_2000's Battling Bowman! Trick arrows like Arcane Archer wishes it had.

In the theme category we had the opposite problem, coming in at nearly a 3-way-tie! We did have a 2-way tie, meaning contests XXII and XXIII are locked in for theme now. Follow Me!'s points came in before Bunch of Fives's, so we'll do that one first. Congrats everyone! I'll get the new contest thread up in a bit here.

Voting is called, new contest is made! Let's see some leadership!

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?629351-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XXII-Follow-Me!-II

EDIT: I also updated the class representation records in the first post with the data from the last two contests, and the Fighter has unseated the Monk as our most popular base class! The monk's sat on that position for a long while now, so I thought that was interesting.

[CountDVB]

For those who wish to make a deal to become the leader, then I present the Pact of the Regulator.

[BerzerkerUnit]

Monastic Tradition: Way of the Cruel Master is posted.

Not sure if I want to buff it to allow you to order Stunning strikes through your Aspirants.

Brutal Instruction is a step above Commander's strike since it costs no resource and allows you to have the wizard kick for a d10, but Monks are understood to be weaker than fighters as a class and unarmed damage stays behind weapon damage for all 20 levels so I'm not too worried.

[CountDVB]

Monastic Tradition: Way of the Cruel Master is posted.

Not sure if I want to buff it to allow you to order Stunning strikes through your Aspirants.

Brutal Instruction is a step above Commander's strike since it costs no resource and allows you to have the wizard kick for a d10, but Monks are understood to be weaker than fighters as a class and unarmed damage stays behind weapon damage for all 20 levels so I'm not too worried.

It definitely looks pretty nice and I like the student becoming the master angle. I would suggest changing the name to like Way of the Sifu or something, since Cruel Master seems kinda on the point (and when it comes to martial arts, a bit redundant since harshness was kinda the default if I remember correctly).

[Ilerien]

Brutal Instruction is a step above Commander's strike since it costs no resource and allows you to have the wizard kick for a d10, but Monks are understood to be weaker than fighters as a class and unarmed damage stays behind weapon damage for all 20 levels so I'm not too worried.This monk will be stuck using this feature to sic party rogue on enemies. :smallbiggrin: And if there's a battlemaster in the party as well, the rogue will be able to make 3 sneak attacks per round.
While your Aspirants can see you, losing face is unconscionable. When you fail an ability check, attack roll, or saving throw you can expend a point of ki to gain a bonus to the roll equal to the number of Aspirants that can see you, possibly turning a failure into a success.I think you want to cap this number at your proficiency or wisdom bonus. I mean, if this monk has 20 disciples...



For those who wish to make a deal to become the leader, then I present the Pact of the Regulator.A very dedicated face of a party. I like it.
The 10th level feature is a bit clunky not offering an alternative in case a warlock has the proficiencies already, but I think expertise makes up for it.
The martial aspect is less powerful than that of a hexblade, but, well, it's still an opportunity to make a frontliner warlock with pact of the blade and invocations to back it.

[MrStabby]

Added the guide - a ranger subclass focussed on supporting those around them.


https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24988964&postcount=5

[CountDVB]

A very dedicated face of a party. I like it.

The 10th level feature is a bit clunky not offering an alternative in case a warlock has the proficiencies already, but I think expertise makes up for it.

The martial aspect is less powerful than that of a hexblade, but, well, it's still an opportunity to make a frontliner warlock with pact of the blade and invocations to back it.

True though it does say weapon attack so it could apply to any weapon attack, so there’s no limits. I guess it would be including improvised weapons or unarmed strikes.

Yeah, thank you very much for the nice words!

[sengmeng]

Wasn't feeling inspired lately, until today. In the spirit of the thread title, I present: The Eldritch Pyramid Schemer Patron. Yes, it's a bookkeeping nightmare, but I hope it's funny enough to overcome that.

[BerzerkerUnit]

This monk will be stuck using this feature to sic party rogue on enemies. :smallbiggrin: And if there's a battlemaster in the party as well, the rogue will be able to make 3 sneak attacks per round.I think you want to cap this number at your proficiency or wisdom bonus. I mean, if this monk has 20 disciples...

Pretty sure I limited the number of Aspirants you can have at proficiency, I’ll tighten the language if it read differently. RAW, rogues can’t sneak attack with unarmed strikes, so I think that solves that issue.

[Damon_Tor]

The Deathtouched Sorcerer is feature-complete, except that there are a few new spells I need to write.

As noted, its core feature is very similar to one I came up with for my College of Fellowship bard a while ago, with a few important differences. This version is significantly stronger, with the sorcerer's shambling horde being both more durable and dealing more damage than the bard's mob: this is because the sorcerer's horde is built out of entities the sorcerer needs to spend spell slots to create, while the bard's followers just show up eager to serve, purely the product of class features.

[Ilerien]

Pretty sure I limited the number of Aspirants you can have at proficiency, I’ll tighten the language if it read differently. RAW, rogues can’t sneak attack with unarmed strikes, so I think that solves that issue.Must've been sleepy when reading your entry. *facepalm* Apologies, this was indeed my bad.
True though it does say weapon attack so it could apply to any weapon attack, so there’s no limits. I guess it would be including improvised weapons or unarmed strikes.It does allow more options than hexblade's feature, though I can't think of anything more appealing than taking pact of the blade and spirit shroud spell from Tasha's at least for a single-class warlock. If one gets extra attack from multiclassing, there might be alternatives worthy of consideration. Anyway, it's for sure a very good subclass on par with the hexblade. :smallsmile:

[KragBrightscale]

Sengmeng! You’ve done it haha.

Pyramid scheme or MLM was exactly where my mind went when I was thinking about this contest’s theme.

I was playing around with some ideas for how it could be pulled off as a patron but only had a few points sorted out before seeing that you beat me to it.

I got stuck figuring out what resource those below could provide those above. The other way around had plenty of options. Why didn’t I think of HP haha or even a hit dice. Nicely done.

I’ll write up my thoughts on what you’ve got so far along with some of my half baked ideas. I won’t be submitting anything this round as I don’t have the time to bring it to the level that is functional.



I love what you’ve got, there is a clear structure that could be extended to huge sizes. Still, there are some points which might need tweaking due to that. As it is now, what stops a pyramid schemer from recruiting the whole village they pass through and gaining 50 temp hp + 10 5th lvl longrest slots? other than the fact that there isn’t much in it for around 80% of the villagers due to not having access to spell slots as they will likely be out of stock or used by you.

Consider adding a cap to max direct recruits or max temp hp. Charisma Modifier + proficiency bonus? Class lvl based? Regular Incremental increase? No idea.

My idea was for recruits to start with access to limited use cantrips (mainly utility ones or low damage ones) and maybe eventually an invocation (that you already have selected for yourself) if they recruited enough followers. This would make joining your pyramid scheme tempting enough.

Only the best would get access to a spell slot (but again I limited its level to lvl 1) though I wasn’t sure if that should cost the use of your own spell slots. You solved the resource issue nicely by giving them a slot their own per 5 recruits.

Question: can other PC characters offer 1hp and recruit 5 followers to effectively get an extra spell slot each? Why wouldn’t they. Small price to pay for a lvl 5 slot, or eventually a lvl 9 spell once a day.

At higher levels, I considered allowing the highest ranking followers to take a single class level in warlock (even if they didn’t have the required multi class ability scores) with you as the patron. The cost for them? They spend their XP (to level up) but again, what would you gain from that? So I got stuck.

Question about lvl 14 ability. Say you bring along a couple of your direct followers, can you now effectively cast each mystic arcanum 3 times? Pretty powerful.

Thoughts on the Spell list: it makes sense as spells the top of the pyramid should use. Lots of enchantment, you are manipulating the masses. Great, however, are these spells you want your followers to use?

As the leader of the pyramid, spells are the products you are marketing. Consider throwing in a couple practical spells that you learned specifically because you knew others would want them. Ones that you can use in your elevator sales pitch.

Plant growth would be great for farmers who follow you. Aura of vitality or a minor healing spell could allow your followers to create a positive brand image in various towns. Faithful hound would be popular amongst travelers and merchants that need to spend the night outside. Visually impressive evocation magic like burning hands or ice storm would be an instant hit amongst youngsters who failed to get into a Wizards’ university.


Just some ideas.

Overall, it’s a fun entree. You’d probably end up playing a eldritch blasting meat shield with all that temp hp. At least in the morning after a good long rest. Ability to tank drops as day goes on.

[Snowben Gaming]

My entry for this contest is up, I present to thee: the Circle of the Pack (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24991869&postcount=7).

I have reservations about my entry, for multiple reasons:

I may have diluted the leadership aspect with melee weapon-ness (it's designed to be the druid's equivalent of bladesinger or swords bard with a bunch of leadership thrown in.)
Balance Issues, mostly with Pack Hunting and Alpha's Command
The wording of Pack Hunting was hard to do. Its intended to allow all other creatures have advantage on their first melee weapon attack against the designated target as long as this occurs before your next turn.
I'm not sure how "druidy" it really feels.

[Damon_Tor]

Finished adding the new spells for the deathtouched Sorcerer. All three are wizard/cleric spells available to the Deathtouched sorcerer only through his bonus spells.

EDIT: Lesser Animate Dead is renamed "Grim Puppet". This is a more interesting name, and draws attention to the fact that the summoned creature has no autonomy.

[CountDVB]

Circle of the Pack: A Druid Circle

Many animals are pack hunters, and druids of the Circle of the Pack seek to emulate this method of combat with their allies. Regarding their traveling companions and allies as pack mates, these druids often end up as the "alphas" of raiding bands or shock troops and don't shy away from the front lines of a combat.

Bonus Proficiencies
When you choose this circle at 2nd level, you gain proficiency in simple and martial weapons.

Pack Hunting
Also at 2nd level, you become a true pack hunter, leading your allies in tactics designed to pick off the opposition through numbers. Once on your turn, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can designate that creature as your prey. Until the start of your next turn, the first time a creature makes a melee attack against your prey, they have advantage on the attack roll. Multiple creatures can benefit from this advantage, although they can only do so once each time you designate a creature as your prey.

You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum of once), regaining all uses upon completing a long rest.

Extra Attack
Begining at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

Alpha's Command
By 10th level, you have become adept at leading your pack into battle. When you use your Pack Hunting feature, you can choose a friendly creature within weapon range of your prey. That creature can use its reaction to make a weapon attack against your prey.

Heart of the Pack
Starting at 14th level, you are an inspiration for your packmates, strengthening their resolve. Friendly creatures that can see you are immuned to the frightened and charmed conditions and have advantage on saving throws made to resist being compelled to act in a manner contrary to their own desires.


1st April
First playable draft
Reworded Pack Hunting to limit it to once on your turn (so you can't have multiple prey when you get extra attack)

Pack Hunting seems to be pretty all right though let me try with wording:
Also at 2nd level, you see your comrades as your pack and your wild instincts help you in leading the offensive with your pack on your prey. Once on your turn, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can designate that creature as the your pack's prey. Until the start of your next turn, all creatures you deem friendly have advantage on melee attack rolls against the creatue designated, though only on their first attack on the creature.

You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum of once), regaining all uses upon completing a long rest.

I would recommend changing Alpha's Command to something else (maybe a free usage of Conjure Animals with buff to them?) if you are insecure on your subclass being sufficiently druid-flavored.

Heart of the Pack is also good Here is another potential way of wording it if you like:
Starting at 14th level, you are an inspiration for your packmates, strengthening their resolve. All friendly creatures within 60 ft of you that can see or hear you are immune to being charmed and frightened along with having advantage on Wisdom saving throws.

[Snowben Gaming]

Pack Hunting seems to be pretty all right though let me try with wording:
Also at 2nd level, you see your comrades as your pack and your wild instincts help you in leading the offensive with your pack on your prey. Once on your turn, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can designate that creature as the your pack's prey. Until the start of your next turn, all creatures you deem friendly have advantage on melee attack rolls against the creatue designated, though only on their first attack on the creature.

You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum of once), regaining all uses upon completing a long rest.
Yeah, that wording is a lot better, thanks! I'm glad to hear the feature holds up in terms of balance though.


I would recommend changing Alpha's Command to something else (maybe a free usage of Conjure Animals with buff to them?) if you are insecure on your subclass being sufficiently druid-flavored. Yeah, replacing Alpha's Command with something more druidy is definitely a good idea, but I'm worried free/buffed conjure animals would step to heavily on shepherd druid's toes. I'll think about this.


Heart of the Pack is also good Here is another potential way of wording it if you like:
Starting at 14th level, you are an inspiration for your packmates, strengthening their resolve. All friendly creatures within 60 ft of you that can see or hear you are immune to being charmed and frightened along with having advantage on Wisdom saving throws.
Yeah, that's better wording.

Thanks a bunch! I'm gonna go implement the improved wording now, and I'll think about druidy replacements for Alpha's Command.

[nickl_2000]

The first draft of my entry Barbarian, Path of the Horde Leader is out there and read for someone to take a look at.


I will take a look at everyone else's entries on Monday :)

[Damon_Tor]

A few changes to Deathtouched:

Reinstated the AoE "weakness" of the horde. Being in the swarm is actually still protecting them some from AoE spells/abilities (as the swarm can pack more than one creature into each 5*5 square) but now a deathtouched sorcerer at least has a reason to be concerned about such tactics.
Added two more tiers of damage to Grasping Horde, keeping the damage more consistent with the number of undead in the horde and generally making the tactic more powerful, creating less incentive for the player to make many small hordes instead of fewer larger ones.
Added a "your minions' attacks count as a magical" to the 14th level ability. This is very late when compared to some other summoning classes, but as a sorcerer you have plenty of tools for dealing magical damage, so I'm not terribly concerned.

[CountDVB]

Yeah, that wording is a lot better, thanks! I'm glad to hear the feature holds up in terms of balance though.

Yeah, replacing Alpha's Command with something more druidy is definitely a good idea, but I'm worried free/buffed conjure animals would step to heavily on shepherd druid's toes. I'll think about this.

Yeah, that's better wording.

Thanks a bunch! I'm gonna go implement the improved wording now, and I'll think about druidy replacements for Alpha's Command.

I have a suggestion! Maybe something with Wild Shape? You Wild Shape into an "Alpha" form of that beast. The "Alpha" form could have its physical stats (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution) increased by your profiency bonus along with maybe its AC also getting an increase?

The "Alpha" form could also have the function of your attacks in beast form count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.

Maybe it could even be a size larger than normal, which explains the further boosted stats.

Could be a once per long rest sort of thing.

[Snowben Gaming]

I have a suggestion! Maybe something with Wild Shape? You Wild Shape into an "Alpha" form of that beast. The "Alpha" form could have its physical stats (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution) increased by your profiency bonus along with maybe its AC also getting an increase?

The "Alpha" form could also have the function of your attacks in beast form count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.

Maybe it could even be a size larger than normal, which explains the further boosted stats.

Could be a once per long rest sort of thing.
Nice! Yeah, something to do with Wildshape is a good idea, as the subclass doesn't currently do anything with it, so some feature that uses it would be a good idea. I'll go brainstorm (and also maybe run some math).

[CountDVB]

Nice! Yeah, something to do with Wildshape is a good idea, as the subclass doesn't currently do anything with it, so some feature that uses it would be a good idea. I'll go brainstorm (and also maybe run some math).

And it would make sense after all. How else to show you are the alpha/pack leader? By becoming the apex of that beast?

also, I hope everyone had a happy Easter!

[nickl_2000]

I got delayed in my reviews, but here we go!



Aspirants - The secondary ability here is pretty powerful, but you have it gated pretty well with the # of aspirants and ki usage. It is a little bit odd that it triggers when an aspirant can see you, but the bonus is based on the number of aspirants that you can see. There is a potential situation here were it could be triggers by an invisible aspirant seeing you, yet you not getting any bonus to your roll.

Brutal Instruction - I'm very glad that you make this unarmed strikes only, that really gets rid of the cheese for a rogue getting an extra sneak attack during all of your turns. I do have one question, if you take an attack action at level 3 and make someone else make the attack, do you still get the Monk unarmed strike as a bonus action?

Dodge! - I don't see any issues here. There is some funky interactions with initiative order, but you can plan for that.

Disciplined Hearts - This could potentially be a huge amount of THP gained, or none depending. If you have a wizard who is successfully avoiding combat and doesn't take any damage, they wouldn't actually gain an THP through this feature. On the other hand, you have someone spending 10 HD of healing (which can certainly happen), they would get, on average, 49 THP. Which is huge. Since it's gated by the HD spent, it is likely fine in practice. I don't wonder if you would see more reliable, and less swingy, results if you gave everyone Wis Mod + Martial Arts Die Roll during a long rest. That puts the feature a little bit weaker than the Inspiring Leader feat, but similar.

One School, Many Masters - I'm not totally sure I like the idea of Monks using two handed weapons as monk weapons, but you are at level 17 already. So, the difference in damage is minimal (1d10 v 1d12). I think the biggest problem here will come in when you combine weapons and feats. I spend 3 ki points and for the next hour I've picked up on how to use a great sword and have GWM running for a monk. Same thing on Sharpshooter.

What happens if I copy half feats? Do I get the stat bonus? Do I only get the stat bonus they chose, or can I get anything? How about things that let me choose bonuses (skill expert feat, skilled, Magic Initiate)? How about something like tough, do I get bonus HP and then lose those in an hour?

What spells can I copy? Can I only copy prepared spells, or do I get access to all their known spells? What is the cast mod for stolen spells? Can I borrow cantrips for 1 Ki and then cast them for free?

What is the action cost to borrow abilities? Or can I just do it on the fly? Hmm, someone is falling, I will borrow feather fall from the Wizard and cast it immediately.

Can I borrow an ability from someone who is unconscious? The healer drops, I take healing word from the healer and immediately cast it on them.


I like this class, it is a good representation of a brutal martial arts master. I have lots and lots of questions on the level 17 ability that need clarification before this is used at a table though.





Wow, this is really front loaded. Even for a Warlock. You get 2 cantrips (one being one of the best in the game), 2 skill expertise, medium armor, shields, and all weapons. That is absolutely killer. I might look at reducing some of the power here. Maybe give the skills and not expertise until later levels? Give the choice of Message or Guidance? Something like that.

Your Force of Will - Cha Mod to weapon attacks at level 6 is pretty late, but I prefer seeing this later than level 1. Hexblade is amazing because this is a level 1 ability. By level 6 it's a nice option and not overpowered. Question on the bonus to skills and throws, when do you declare you are going to add the bonus? Before the roll, after the roll, after the roll and knowing the results? For an ability like this it is a very important distinction.

Judging Gaze - Wow, more expertise and skills learned. You are a skill machine in this class and a social god. I think 2 more here is a little much as well personally.

Authorative Paradigm - This may be more personal opinion, but I don't like seeing reliable talent on other classes besides rogue. Rogues are supposed to be the skill monkeys and this takes away from them. As I was reading this class, I expected to see something more along the lines of a free casting of Dominate X at this ability, but that is me.


You have a different take on management than I expected on this one. I expected this to be more focused on domination and charm than skills. The skills aren't a bad take, but I think they are to much overall in this subclass. It's certainly worth playing and using though and could make a very compelling character





Death Magic - I've always wondered why free spells ended at level 5 for spell casting classes. I don't see anything wrong with going higher personally, and the sorcerer needs all the spells it can get.

One With Death - I think this should leave some DM fiat on it for the charming. Technically by your rules, if I cast Mage Armor on my charmed skeleton buddy it turns hostile on me. I do think you need to have a range on charming undead critters as well. As it is currently, you technically instantly charm all undead creatures in the world.

Shambling Horde - You need 4 critters to make a hoard. What happens if you lose control of one of them? Is it still a hoard? I also, wouldn't mind seeing a bonus to HP depending on how many creatures you used to make the hoard as a way to boost it slightly. Nevermind all of this. You completely took care of these questions/problems/suggestions in the stat block.

Infectious Necrosis - Seems good to me, a good way to get more, but sensibly limited.

Undying Loyalty - An appropriate capstone, although a little bit boring since it's a passive ability instead of an active one. The nice thing about it is that it makes everything else that you have learned better.


Spells
Grim Puppet - Should this be concentration? Having 2 Zombies under your command at level 1 is really strong.


A dark, evil leader is absolutely still a leader. I do like how you can start your minionmancy at level 1 instead of having to wait until level 3 to.





Mark Target - I'm glad this is per long rest as otherwise this would be way to powerful. How long does the AC penalty last? Do you need to concentrate on it per the Tasha's Favored Foe replacement? Is the penalty only against you or against everyone?

Lead the Charge - Even though this is a high level I am not a fan of this being used at will. You are effectively doubling the damage of the rogue in your party (or someone else, but let's be honest it will always by used on the rogue). If you limit it to a certain amount of times per long rest, then I think you are good to go.

Seize Victory - See above.

I like the simplicity of this subclass, you get options to use and things to do out of it but its easily usable and understandable. I like that the higher level ranger features give you more of a reason to stick with ranger.







This is one of the funnier subclasses that I have seen. It certainly captures the essence of the pyramid scheme. I would absolutely adore it if you had to pay 1 hp and get 1 free spell slot (at level 1, but it grows are you do in level) to use per day when you join this subclass at level (implying that you are part of the structure and you don't know exactly where you are). Add onto that a certain percentage of failure on the casting of that spell per day.






This is clearly a melee Druid, something that tends to be missing from other Druid subclasses. I think that you could easily add extra spells in here as Druid spells known without adding excessive power to anything.

Pack Hunting - Sensibility limited in uses. It's powerful, but since it's limited I thin you are perfectly fine.

Alpha's Command - One interesting thing here that I am not sure whether it was intentional or not. When you use pack hunting they get advantage on melee attack rolls, but the Alpha's Command allows you to make a ranged or melee weapon attack.

Heart of the Pack - This seems like a little much to me. With it being a passive ability your entire party gets these features all the time. I would rather see this as an active ability with an action cost. Maybe a bonus action to end fear and charm or a reaction to give one creature advantage on a saving throw. It still is a good ability and still meets the goal of what you are going for, but makes it more effective overall.

It's a good subclass and a good use of the melee template that is needed for Druids. I will mirror what others say in that it would be nice to see something use wildshape for added bonuses in melee.





There we go, I'm all caught up. Great entries everyone!

[CountDVB]

I got delayed in my reviews, but here we go!



Wow, this is really front loaded. Even for a Warlock. You get 2 cantrips (one being one of the best in the game), 2 skill expertise, medium armor, shields, and all weapons. That is absolutely killer. I might look at reducing some of the power here. Maybe give the skills and not expertise until later levels? Give the choice of Message or Guidance? Something like that.

Your Force of Will - Cha Mod to weapon attacks at level 6 is pretty late, but I prefer seeing this later than level 1. Hexblade is amazing because this is a level 1 ability. By level 6 it's a nice option and not overpowered. Question on the bonus to skills and throws, when do you declare you are going to add the bonus? Before the roll, after the roll, after the roll and knowing the results? For an ability like this it is a very important distinction.

Judging Gaze - Wow, more expertise and skills learned. You are a skill machine in this class and a social god. I think 2 more here is a little much as well personally.

Authorative Paradigm - This may be more personal opinion, but I don't like seeing reliable talent on other classes besides rogue. Rogues are supposed to be the skill monkeys and this takes away from them. As I was reading this class, I expected to see something more along the lines of a free casting of Dominate X at this ability, but that is me.


You have a different take on management than I expected on this one. I expected this to be more focused on domination and charm than skills. The skills aren't a bad take, but I think they are to much overall in this subclass. It's certainly worth playing and using though and could make a very compelling character


There we go, I'm all caught up. Great entries everyone!

It's about being able to bring order and stability. You are the leader and should be able to fully utilize your Charisma. It's about being the leader to keep the rowdy folks in line and being cpable enough in how you approach your leadership capabilities.

It shouldn't be focused purely on battle mechanics and I considered the possibility on using this subclass on some of the other PCs or the NPCs. I will tweak some stuff for balance though.

[CountDVB]

I tweaked Pact of the Regulator. Hopefully it's a bit more balanced now!

[nickl_2000]

It's about being able to bring order and stability. You are the leader and should be able to fully utilize your Charisma. It's about being the leader to keep the rowdy folks in line and being cpable enough in how you approach your leadership capabilities.

It shouldn't be focused purely on battle mechanics and I considered the possibility on using this subclass on some of the other PCs or the NPCs. I will tweak some stuff for balance though.

It doesn't need to be about combat and if it came across that way that was a mistake in typing. Warlocks are perfectly effective in combat as a base class and really don't need anymore than they already have to be good. I just felt like the skills were a little much, I wouldn't mind seeing one of the expertise replaced with a charm like ability (but that is just me).

[CountDVB]

It doesn't need to be about combat and if it came across that way that was a mistake in typing. Warlocks are perfectly effective in combat as a base class and really don't need anymore than they already have to be good. I just felt like the skills were a little much, I wouldn't mind seeing one of the expertise replaced with a charm like ability (but that is just me).

Yeah, that makes sense! I did tweak it a bit so it wasn't as skill crazy and specified on what you said with applying the bonus roll along with other stuff.

[sengmeng]

I got delayed in my reviews, but here we go!



This is one of the funnier subclasses that I have seen. It certainly captures the essence of the pyramid scheme. I would absolutely adore it if you had to pay 1 hp and get 1 free spell slot (at level 1, but it grows are you do in level) to use per day when you join this subclass at level (implying that you are part of the structure and you don't know exactly where you are). Add onto that a certain percentage of failure on the casting of that spell per day.




Ha that's a good idea! I'll probably do that.

[BerzerkerUnit]

I got delayed in my reviews, but here we go!



Aspirants - The secondary ability here is pretty powerful, but you have it gated pretty well with the # of aspirants and ki usage. It is a little bit odd that it triggers when an aspirant can see you, but the bonus is based on the number of aspirants that you can see. There is a potential situation here were it could be triggers by an invisible aspirant seeing you, yet you not getting any bonus to your roll.

Brutal Instruction - I'm very glad that you make this unarmed strikes only, that really gets rid of the cheese for a rogue getting an extra sneak attack during all of your turns. I do have one question, if you take an attack action at level 3 and make someone else make the attack, do you still get the Monk unarmed strike as a bonus action?

Dodge! - I don't see any issues here. There is some funky interactions with initiative order, but you can plan for that.

Disciplined Hearts - This could potentially be a huge amount of THP gained, or none depending. If you have a wizard who is successfully avoiding combat and doesn't take any damage, they wouldn't actually gain an THP through this feature. On the other hand, you have someone spending 10 HD of healing (which can certainly happen), they would get, on average, 49 THP. Which is huge. Since it's gated by the HD spent, it is likely fine in practice. I don't wonder if you would see more reliable, and less swingy, results if you gave everyone Wis Mod + Martial Arts Die Roll during a long rest. That puts the feature a little bit weaker than the Inspiring Leader feat, but similar.

One School, Many Masters - I'm not totally sure I like the idea of Monks using two handed weapons as monk weapons, but you are at level 17 already. So, the difference in damage is minimal (1d10 v 1d12). I think the biggest problem here will come in when you combine weapons and feats. I spend 3 ki points and for the next hour I've picked up on how to use a great sword and have GWM running for a monk. Same thing on Sharpshooter.

What happens if I copy half feats? Do I get the stat bonus? Do I only get the stat bonus they chose, or can I get anything? How about things that let me choose bonuses (skill expert feat, skilled, Magic Initiate)? How about something like tough, do I get bonus HP and then lose those in an hour?

What spells can I copy? Can I only copy prepared spells, or do I get access to all their known spells? What is the cast mod for stolen spells? Can I borrow cantrips for 1 Ki and then cast them for free?

What is the action cost to borrow abilities? Or can I just do it on the fly? Hmm, someone is falling, I will borrow feather fall from the Wizard and cast it immediately.

Can I borrow an ability from someone who is unconscious? The healer drops, I take healing word from the healer and immediately cast it on them.


I like this class, it is a good representation of a brutal martial arts master. I have lots and lots of questions on the level 17 ability that need clarification before this is used at a table though.



There we go, I'm all caught up. Great entries everyone!

Thanks so much for your feedback!

Taking the attack action trigger martial arts, so you don’t have to make any attacks, you’ve taken the required action. That’s my interpretation anyway.


I’ll clarify the level 17 feature. My understanding is that taking Monk to tier 4 is a bit of a fool’s game so I wanted the capstone to be something spectacular.
So yes, you can add in GWM/PAM and sharpshooter shenanigans, but I think it will be an appreciated boost and still avoid the worst cheese.

Intent was spend Ki and cast a spell your Aspirant can using the same kind of action and using your Ki DC. So yes you could make zombies if you have a necromancing aspirant by spending 3 ki and 1 minute. But if they’re dead or unconscious I don’t think that works. Might go spell you’ve seen them cast in the last minute.

[Damon_Tor]

Death Magic - I've always wondered why free spells ended at level 5 for spell casting classes. I don't see anything wrong with going higher personally, and the sorcerer needs all the spells it can get.

I did balance it against the other sorcerer subclasses by only giving them 1 spell at each level in this way, so fewer extra spells known total than others.


One With Death - I think this should leave some DM fiat on it for the charming. Technically by your rules, if I cast Mage Armor on my charmed skeleton buddy it turns hostile on me. I do think you need to have a range on charming undead critters as well. As it is currently, you technically instantly charm all undead creatures in the world.

The fluff here is that whatever magic sense it is that keeps zombies and skeletons from attacking other undead also keeps them from attacking you: you simply "ping" as undead to them unless you mess it up. Casting a beneficial spell on a skeleton (that you don't otherwise have control over) should absolutely turn it hostile, not because it doesn't like the mage armor or whatever, but because casting the spell drew its attention enough that it could see the spark of life lingering beneath the cloak of the necrotic energy that surrounds you. A charm effect from another source (the Dominate Undead spell for example) wouldn't be effected by casting the spell, so this shouldn't effect your control over your minions.

And yeah, all undead everywhere (below a certain Int score) are charmed by you in this way until you break them out of it: charmed is the default state. I could limit it to "undead who can see you" or "undead within 200 feet of you" or "undead aware of your presence" or something, but I don't see why I would need to. Charmed doesn't really do anything while you're offscreen.

Ultimately the charmed effect isn't perfect for what I'm going for, but it's a simple solution for what might otherwise be a more complex ability.


Grim Puppet - Should this be concentration? Having 2 Zombies under your command at level 1 is really strong.

The major limitation of the spell is in how much you have to micro-manage the minions. You can have 2 zombies under your control, but you can only make one of them do anything on any given turn because controlling them is a bonus action. They don't even dodge or move without it. The spell interacts nicely with Unholy Vigor, and later you can add them to your horde and control becomes moot, but by itself I think its fitting for a first level spell.


A dark, evil leader is absolutely still a leader. I do like how you can start your minionmancy at level 1 instead of having to wait until level 3 to.

There are shades of grey possible here: a necromancer or a death cleric chose to become what they are in one way or another, but a deathtouched sorcerer is born this way. Maybe they've gone all their life trying not to use their powers but are faced with an impossible choice when challenged by something darker, faced with a situation where raising the dead to save the living is the lesser evil.

[Snowben Gaming]

This is clearly a melee Druid, something that tends to be missing from other Druid subclasses. I think that you could easily add extra spells in here as Druid spells known without adding excessive power to anything.

Pack Hunting - Sensibility limited in uses. It's powerful, but since it's limited I thin you are perfectly fine.

Alpha's Command - One interesting thing here that I am not sure whether it was intentional or not. When you use pack hunting they get advantage on melee attack rolls, but the Alpha's Command allows you to make a ranged or melee weapon attack.

Heart of the Pack - This seems like a little much to me. With it being a passive ability your entire party gets these features all the time. I would rather see this as an active ability with an action cost. Maybe a bonus action to end fear and charm or a reaction to give one creature advantage on a saving throw. It still is a good ability and still meets the goal of what you are going for, but makes it more effective overall.

It's a good subclass and a good use of the melee template that is needed for Druids. I will mirror what others say in that it would be nice to see something use wildshape for added bonuses in melee.


Alpha's Command: I distinctly remember doing so on purpose, although I sure as hell can't remember why. Not like it really matters as Alpha's Command is going out the window for something using wildshape, haven't quite got the replacement feature up and running yet, but I shall do so soon.

Heart of the Pack: I'm gonna go with bonus action to end charm or fear, its a more powerful version of the monk's stillness of mind (as that feature is an action) but it's also 7 levels later so I'm pretty sure it should be ok, if not too weak. And you've probably got better things to be doing with your bonus action in most situations anyway.

Possible Circle Spells: Huh, I was thinking that bonus proficiencies would take the place of circle spells, but I guess spores druid has circle spells, symbiotic entity and halo of spores, so circle spells would still probably be ok power-wise. I'm not sure what spells I'd add though, other than Hunter's Mark. I'll think about it.

Thanks for the feedback!

[MrStabby]

I got delayed in my reviews, but here we go!




Mark Target - I'm glad this is per long rest as otherwise this would be way to powerful. How long does the AC penalty last? Do you need to concentrate on it per the Tasha's Favored Foe replacement? Is the penalty only against you or against everyone?

Lead the Charge - Even though this is a high level I am not a fan of this being used at will. You are effectively doubling the damage of the rogue in your party (or someone else, but let's be honest it will always by used on the rogue). If you limit it to a certain amount of times per long rest, then I think you are good to go.

Seize Victory - See above.

I like the simplicity of this subclass, you get options to use and things to do out of it but its easily usable and understandable. I like that the higher level ranger features give you more of a reason to stick with ranger.





Ah, thanks for the review.

Good shout on the Mark Target errors. Very poorly written on my part; I will tighten up.

On lead the charge...

I don't know. I am absolutely not saying you are wrong, but it takes things to an area of design philosophy I don't have settled views on yet.

To what extent should design reflect what other players might bring? Mark Target for example is utterly brutal if you have a necromancer in the party. Lead the Charge is much better if you do have a rogue in the group (but then so is haste, so is the order cleric ability to give another attack (from which I shamelessly stole this ability), so is commander's strike). Actually, saying this I am maybe more concerned about haste on the Guide.

I am really on the fence with this. On the one hand it is a highish level ability on a class that relies more than most on subclass features whilst also allowing someone else to shine - specifically that someone else is a class that falls off a bit in power (in my oppinion) at higher levels. The benefits are not every round, but rather every round they wouldn't have used a reaction to attack anyway. The subclass is already tracking daily uses of Mark Target so I don't want to get bogged down in bookkeeping - I was hoping to keep this simple to play and fill a niche for relatively simple support characters.

On the other side it IS potentially really powerful. That extra attack does exceed what a fighter can do with their level 11 ability.

One "fix" might be that the character gets its attack, not as a reaction but as an increase in the number of attacks it can make using the attack action. It keeps reactions open for fighters, paladins etc. and majorly nerfs the effects on Rogues. It does mean that it kind of sucks a lot more if you have a party heavy on casters who would be unwilling to take the attack action. It gets a bit fiddly though and is one more thing to remember between turns.

I am less worried about this on Seize Victory - the odds of there being TWO rogues in the party is relatively small and at level 15 I feel they could use a hand, especially as thee is a good chance they are stepping on eachother's toes a bit. Also... like this is the level where spells like feeblemind and force cage are being thrown about; something to give a bit of a buff to those in the party without access to ultimate arcane power seems good.

Trying to fix this at level 11 but leave the level 15 ability untouched is possible, but I can't easily thing of something that isn't an inelegant kludge.

I will do something... I am just not sure what. Thanks for the input.

[CountDVB]

Hope everyone is doing well. I'm wondering what other ideas people can still come up with

[MoleMage]

I'm still thinking. Nothing leapt out at me this contest, so I may pick one of my old homebrew base classes and try to knock together a leadership subclass for it.

[CountDVB]

Only a few days left!

[Snowben Gaming]

So I may have forgotten this existed. And only remembered the day before the deadline. Oops.

I've thrown a last minute update onto the Circle of the Pack, the changes are as follows:

Circle spells! (Including a homebrew spell that is literally just holy weapon with elemental damage types (and without the light and blinding effects)).
Alpha's Command is now only melee attacks. I was planning on replacing this feature entirely, but I procrastinated and never decided on a full replacement.

I'll try and be a lot more active for the next contest and actually get round to giving feedback.

[MrStabby]

So I may have forgotten this existed. And only remembered the day before the deadline. Oops.

I've thrown a last minute update onto the Circle of the Pack, the changes are as follows:

Circle spells! (Including a homebrew spell that is literally just holy weapon with elemental damage types (and without the light and blinding effects)).
Alpha's Command is now only melee attacks. I was planning on replacing this feature entirely, but I procrastinated and never decided on a full replacement.

I'll try and be a lot more active for the next contest and actually get round to giving feedback.

Yeah, I hope to do the same... I need to get my computer fixed. Trying to do in depth reviews on my phone has been... problematic.

[CountDVB]

Guess we'll be voting soon...

[MoleMage]

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?631004-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XXII-Voting-Thread&p=25033148#post25033148

Indeed we will, for the voting thread is upon us!

Don't forget, the most important tiebreaker is whether you vote!

[CountDVB]

Voted though what's the Bunch of Fives about?

[MoleMage]

Voted though what's the Bunch of Fives about?

Five fingers; it was the theme in contest 6, originally suggested along with a set of other themes themed on the number 5 for contest...5.

[nickl_2000]

Five fingers; it was the theme in contest 6, originally suggested along with a set of other themes themed on the number 5 for contest...5.

If anyone is having trouble finding themes around the number 5, let me know. I've got about 7 different themes that you can can use to base a subclass around.

[CountDVB]

Five fingers; it was the theme in contest 6, originally suggested along with a set of other themes themed on the number 5 for contest...5.

All right, so the theme is basically rule of five then? Five fingers, five things, so on and so forth, correct?

Just wanna make sure.

[MoleMage]

All right, so the theme is basically rule of five then? Five fingers, five things, so on and so forth, correct?

Just wanna make sure.

For Bunch of Fives it's subclasses that use their hands (like fists, but also five-finger discount, etc.)

[nickl_2000]

For Bunch of Fives it's subclasses that use their hands (like fists, but also five-finger discount, etc.)

Frankly I think you could get away with anything that includes the number 5. 5 Senses, five fingered discount, 5 love languages, High Fives, Take 5 (which is a term for a rest).

[CountDVB]

For Bunch of Fives it's subclasses that use their hands (like fists, but also five-finger discount, etc.)

All righty! Definitely will be a bit tricky, but should be alot of fun then.

[Ilerien]

For Bunch of Fives it's subclasses that use their hands (like fists, but also five-finger discount, etc.)I'm going to be rather uncreative and present a monk subclass :smallwink:

[Damon_Tor]

"Pair of Fives" made me think of cards and gambling, which was the starting point for the subclass I'll be posting (a rogue)... though it's drifted a bit from that concept.

My thought process went from "a gambler might have secret pockets for hiding aces and such" to "I bet he can hide small weapons in there too" to "okay, this is now a knife-throwing specialist with some minor gambling fluff". Oh well.

[Snowben Gaming]

So I've had an idea for Bunch of Fives ever since the previous voting period. Shadow animal bard time!

[Damon_Tor]

So I've had an idea for Bunch of Fives ever since the previous voting period. Shadow animal bard time!

Ooh, ooh, a bard focused on clapping. Like a... a preschool teacher or something.

[MrStabby]

Hmm. The Happy Slapper Barbarian might be coming out to play.

[CountDVB]

Congrats to the winners!

[MoleMage]

Aw sod I forgot to vote and I run the thing. I used to be so much better about this stuff. Oh well, time to tally.


Alrighty, even though I forgot to vote myself, it's time to tally those votes and find our...wow. clear breakway here.

In third place, earning 8 points overall, MrStabby's Guide Ranger! Take command of the situation and direct your allies strikes where they're needed most!

In second place, earning 10 points, we have BerzerkerUnit's Way of the Cruel Master! Your methods are questionable but the results undeniable.

And our overwhelming first place entry, with 16 points, we have Damon_Tor's Deathtouched Sorcerer! Raise the dead. Swarm your enemies with the dead. Spread the dead. A minionmancy subclass for the ages.

Next contest is Bunch of Fives (five fingers, that is). Thread coming soon!

Tally done. New contest soon!

[nickl_2000]

Aw sod I forgot to vote and I run the thing. I used to be so much better about this stuff. Oh well, time to tally.

I think as long as the vote is in before the tally thread you are good to go, and it's pretty easy for you to get it in before the tally thread :smallwink:



Congratulations on the great entries everyone and to the winners!

[MoleMage]

I think as long as the vote is in before the tally thread you are good to go, and it's pretty easy for you to get it in before the tally thread :smallwink:



Congratulations on the great entries everyone and to the winners!

I could, and if it were anyone else I'd let it slide as long as they beat me to the tally, but it feels like I'm taking advantage of being the organizer if I do it myself. I don't think my votes would have changed anything today anyway, we had some breakaway leaders at the front this time around.

New contest is up, too! https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?631681-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XXIII-Bunch-of-Fives-II&p=25050185#post25050185

[nickl_2000]

I could, and if it were anyone else I'd let it slide as long as they beat me to the tally, but it feels like I'm taking advantage of being the organizer if I do it myself. I don't think my votes would have changed anything today anyway, we had some breakaway leaders at the front this time around.

New contest is up, too! https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?631681-D-amp-D-Subclass-Contest-XXIII-Bunch-of-Fives-II&p=25050185#post25050185

I know I wouldn't be bother by it, even if I were pushed out of first place (although that wasn't an issue this time, way to many amazing entries for me to compete :) ). Also, since we knew about the next contest I got a head start. So, I've added my Druid Circle of the 5th element.