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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Super-level magic (greater than 9th level)



KittenMagician
2020-11-25, 05:24 PM
Overall I was sorely disappointed in the max level fireball. It never got bigger in size and it just did a little bit more damage per level increase. I wanted something bigger and I mean BIGGER. I was inspired by the explosion magic that Megumin does in the anime KonoSuba to make a spell that really is devastatingly powerful. But if I made one super awesome overpowered spell I would need to make more to have a variety. I decided that I needed to make at least one super level spell for each school of magic and find a way to balance them. I present to you my super-level magic.


Super-level Magic
The following spells come from ancient times when magic casters were much more powerful. These spells are available to wizards provided they are able to find a book to teach them. You must also be able to speak, read, and write the spells associated language, the spell is always written in that language after all. The amount of time it takes to copy one of these spells into your spellbook is exorbitant. It takes 48 hours worth of time to fully learn one of these spells and 1000 gold worth of materials.
Because of the nature of these spells and their power, it takes immense amounts of concentration and strength to not have the spell kill you. As such you cannot move on a turn in which you cast one of these spells and each of them consumes multiple spell slots. Starting from your highest-level spell slot, you use up 17 spell slots for each of these spells. At higher levels, you may spend more spell slots, if available, to amplify the effects of the spell in a certain way. If you attempt to cast one of these spells with less than 17 spell slots, the following effects occur:
- 16-15 spell slots: Your intelligence drops to zero, and you become catatonic, this can be reversed with a wish spell or a greater restoration
- 14-13 spell slots: same as previous, but you also drop to zero hit points
- 12 spell slots: Same as previous, but you are dead with no saving throws
- 11 spell slots: Your body disintegrates
- 10-1 spell slots: Your body disintegrates, and a 10-foot diameter rift in reality opens for 1 minute and sucks all creatures that do not succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity or Strength saving throw inside.

If you successfully cast the spell you drop to 1 strength. After one minute, you may make a constitution saving throw DC 5+ the number of spell slots used in the casting of this spell. On a success you regain your normal strength. You may repeat this save again once every minute. The DC of the save decreases by 1 for each minute that elapses.

The spells


Lustras' Perfect Transmutation
Super-level transmutation
Casting time: 1 turn (action and bonus action)
Range: Self
Components: V,S
Duration: Instantaneous
Language: Primordial

Choose a nonliving material such as stone metal wood (not living plants), etc. All of the chosen material that is not worn or held within a sphere with a radius of 800 ft with you on the edge is transmuted into another material. To determine the new material roll on the table below.
For each spell slot more than 17 you spend on this spell allows you to remove one option from the table for this casting of the spell.
D6| Result
1| Stone
2| Gold
3| Water
4| Iron
5| Coal
6| Sand



Deification
Super-level conjuration
Casting time: 1 turn (action and bonus action)
Range: Self
Components: V,S
Duration: 3 turns
Language: Celestial

You summon a god of the DM's choice that is of a domain you roll on the table below. The god possesses your body for the duration of this spell. The god is controlled by the DM and takes a turn immediately and further turns in your stead. The god takes your turn the turn it would dissipate. You have immunity to all damage types for as long as you are possessed. When the god dissipates, you are left with 1 hit point.
For each spell slot more than 17 you spend on this spell allows you to remove one option from the table for this casting of the spell.
D6| Result
1| Life
2| Death
3| War
4| Nature
5| Knowledge
6| Tempest



Grasp Heart
Super-level necromancy
Casting time: 1 turn (action and bonus action)
Range: 45 feet
Components: V,S
Duration: Instantaneous
Language: Abyssal

A creature within range that you can see must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failure the creature dies. On a success the creature is incapacitated until the end of your next turn. Undead and constructs are not affected by this spell.
For each spell slot more than 17 you spend on this spell increases the DC by 1 for this casting of the spell.



Colerra's Reinvigoration
Super-level evocation
Casting time: 1 turn (action and bonus action)
Range: Self
Components: V,S
Duration: Instantaneous
Language: Celestial

All creatures in a sphere with 100 foot radius centered on you regain all of their hit points. All undead within the sphere must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failure they are disintegrated. Plant life within the sphere is strengthened, they come into full bloom and there is new growth. All creatures within the sphere that have been dead for no longer than 10 years and that died for any reason except old age, and if the creature’s soul is free and willing, the creature is restored to life with all its hit points.
This spell closes all wounds, neutralizes any poison, cures all diseases, and lifts any curses affecting the creature when it died. The spell replaces damaged or missing organs and limbs.
For each spell slot more than 17 you spend on this spell increases the DC by 1 for this casting of the spell.



Explosion
Super-level evocation
Casting time: 1 turn (action and bonus action)
Range: 1000 feet
Components: V,S
Duration: Instantaneous
Language: Infernal

A spot where you point within range erupts in a massive explosion. Each creature in a 40-foot-radius sphere centered on that point takes 10d12 fire damage. The fire spreads around corners. It ignites flammable objects in the area that aren’t being worn or carried. Objects within the first 10-foot-radius are disintegrated. Every creature within a 30-foot-radius outside the explosion must make a Strength or Dexterity saving throw. A target is knocked back 10 feet and takes 3d6 bludgeoning damage and is prone on a failed save, or half as much damage and are not knocked prone on a successful one.
For each spell slot more than 17 you spend on this spell increases the damage by 2d12 for the fire damage and 1d6 for the bludgeoning damage for this casting of the spell.



Lightning Annihilation
Super-level evocation
Casting time: 1 turn (action and bonus action)
Range: Self (500 foot line)
Components: V,S
Duration: Instantaneous
Language: Primordial

An uncountable number of lightning bolts spring forth from your out stretched hands and arms forming a line 500 feet long and 20 feet wide in a direction you choose. Each creature in the line takes 10d12 lightning damage. The lightning ignites flammable objects in the area that aren’t being worn or carried. Every creature within 20 feet of the line of lightning bolts must make a Strength or Dexterity saving throw. A target takes 3d6 thunder damage and is blinded and deafened on a failed save, or half as much damage and are not blinded on a successful one.
For each spell slot more than 17 you spend on this spell increases the damage by 2d12 for the lightning damage and 1d6 for the thunder damage for this casting of the spell.



Colerra's Ring of Peace
Super-level enchantment
Casting time: 1 turn (action and bonus action)
Range: Self
Components: V,S
Duration: 24 hours
Language: Sylvan

All creatures within a sphere with a 200 foot-radius centered on you when this spell is cast and each creature that enters the sphere or starts its turn within the sphere must make a Charisma saving throw. Each creature that fails cannot attack or cast spells that affect other creatures. Creatures within the sphere have immunity to magic cast from outside the sphere and all ranged attacks into the sphere from outside it automatically miss. Each creature that succeeds the saving throw, is magically teleported to the closest safe space they fit in outside the sphere.
For each spell slot more than 17 you spend on this spell increases the DC by 1 for this casting of the spell.



Sotellian's Reign of Chaos
Super-level enchantment
Casting time: 1 turn (action and bonus action)
Range: Self
Components: V,S
Duration: 24 hours
Language: Draconic

All creatures within a sphere with a 200 foot-radius sphere with you at the edge when this spell is cast and each creature that enters the sphere or starts its turn within the sphere must make a Charisma saving throw. Each creature that fails is driven into a rage with no regard for their own safety and must attack the nearest creature whether friend or foe. If they are capable of casting spells they may but they must move towards the nearest creature. Creatures within the sphere take double damage from spells cast from outside the sphere, automatically fail all spell saving throws, and all ranged attacks into the sphere from outside it automatically hit, you still roll to see if there is a critical hit. Each creature that succeeds the saving throw, is magically teleported to the closest safe space they fit in outside the sphere.
For each spell slot more than 17 you spend on this spell increases the DC by 1 for this casting of the spell.



Sotellian's Polylocation
Super-level illusion
Casting time: 1 turn (action and bonus action)
Range: Self
Components: V,S
Duration: 1 hour
Language: Sylvan

You create 4 copies of yourself at different open spaces of your choice within 30 ft of you that are under your control. They each take a turn immediately after your turn. They each have four 1st-level spell slots, one 2nd level spell slot and have the same prepared spells as you. They have the same abilities scores and proficiencies that you do. They have all the same items you do other than artifacts. When the duration of this spell ends the copies disappear along with their equipment and items.
For each spell slot more than 17 you spend on this spell increases the number of copies you create by 1 for this casting of the spell.



Utter Silence
Super-level abjuration
Casting time: 1 turn (action and bonus action)
Range: Self
Components: S
Duration: 12 hours
Language: Deep Speech

You create an area in which no sound can exist. For the duration, no sound can be created within or pass through a 1000-foot-radius sphere with you on the edge of it. Any creature or object entirely inside the sphere is immune to thunder damage, and creatures are deafened while entirely inside it. Casting a spell that includes a verbal component is impossible there. Telepathy is also impossible. While inside the area magical items become mundane.
For each spell slot more than 17 you spend on this spell increases the size of the radius by 100 feet for this casting of the spell.



Omniscience
Super-level divination
Casting time: 1 turn (action and bonus action)
Range: Self
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous
Language: Celestial

You are filled with all the knowledge of the multiverse for a brief moment. After this flash of knowledge you can ask a question in meditation and mentally receive a truthful answer to that question. Besides information, the answer helps you solve a puzzling problem or other dilemma. In other words, the knowledge comes with Wisdom on how to apply it.
For each spell slot more than 17 you spend on this spell increases the number of questions you may ask by 1 for this casting of the spell.


School of Ancient Magics
I made a new Wizard subclass to go along with these new spells.

Student of the Ancients
At 2nd level when you choose this sub class you learn to speak read and write one of the following languages: Abyssal, Celestial, Deep Speech, Draconic, Infernal, Primordial, or Sylvan.

Initiate of Ancient Techniques
At 2nd level your study of ancient magics allows you to understand a wider variety of magics. You may learn cantrips and 1st level spells from any spell list in the same way that you learn wizard spells. These spells count as wizard spells for you. You may only have a number of spells not normally found on the wizard spell list prepared equal to your proficiency bonus (this does count against your number of prepared spells.)

Adept of Ancient Techniques
At 6th level you understand the mysteries of what people of ancient times found commonplace a little bit better. You can now learn 2nd level spells from any spell list and you learn 2 more cantrips of your choice. In addition select 2 cantrips you know. When you cast the chosen cantrips you may cast them as a bonus action if they have a casting time of 1 action. These spells count as wizard spells for you. You may only have a number of spells not normally found on the wizard spell list prepared equal to your proficiency bonus (this does count against your number of prepared spells.)

Master of Ancient Techniques
At 10th level you fully comprehend ancient techniques and how to enact all but the most powerful powers and spells. You can now learn 3rd and 4th level spells from any spell list. These spells count as wizard spells for you. You may only have a number of spells not normally found on the wizard spell list prepared equal to your proficiency bonus (this does count against your number of prepared spells.) In addition select another cantrip you know. When you cast the chosen cantrip you may cast it as a bonus action if it has a casting time of 1 action.

Penultimate Master of Magic
At 14th level your intense study for years has finally allowed you to learn ancient magic of unimaginable power. You learn one super level spell of your choice. In addition select another cantrip you know. When you cast the chosen cantrip you may cast it as a bonus action if it has a casting time of 1 action.



thanks for reading and your feedback. for those of you wondering you get 17 spell slots at level 13 and you max out at 22 spell slots at level 20.

Anymage
2020-11-25, 06:32 PM
#1: I really don't know that spellcasters need even more love. Especially because their problems don't necessarily come from combat, but what they can do with their spells on a day off. (When the martials can, at most, work for a salary.)

#2: The costs are high enough to make these not worth using in combat (unless you want to have a low level wizard cast a kamikaze save or die), but again like most things castery can have some tricky implications when cast during a day off (when you can rest up and recover afterwards). Turn a few buckets of water into gold coins? Call up a god of knowledge to ask him some questions? You'll have a lot on your plate. Compared to a hugely costly SoD when you could just cast a normal SoD from slots.

#3: If you want to include plot device level spells, tying them to spell slots in general can send you astray. Once it's in a spellbook and tied to spell slots, players expect it to be part of their normal toolkit. If you want bigger plot device spells to be a thing, take more inspiration from incantations (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm). Can require adventures to get to the right location and/or find the required macguffins, can be time sensitive so players don't just bust it out whenever, and tends to do something dramatic but limited so it doesn't become another versatile tool in the toolbox. Bonus point, tying it to arcana (or religion/nature if appropriate) allows for other people to do cool stuff instead of expecting that every party has a wizard.

noob
2020-11-25, 06:33 PM
There is no logic at all in the languages used by the spells.
For example Celestial is nonsense for deification since it is about picking at random a god that might be evil or good and giving it a presence in the world: the alignment language for chaos would make 1000 times more sense.
Furthermore they are reached at level 14 so it means that they are level 7.5 and not 9.
And sorcerer wizards can overcast the heck out of them due to sorcery points allowing them to turn higher level slots in many level 1 spell slots.
Sorcerer wizards can also access them early due to spell slot to points to spell slots which I think is not intended.
Also Colerra's Reinvigoration should be from the necromancy school due to the absolutely massive amount of resurrections it causes.
(also resurrection and healing are not particularly associated with celestials: everybody spams healing and resurrections)

Sotellian's Polylocation is just absurd when you are a sorcerer wizard: trade all your level 1 spell slots for higher amounts of level 2 and level 1 spell slots.(also why sylvan and not for example gnomish while this kind of shenanigan fits gnomes way better)
It becomes way worse if you have consumables like for example a scroll of stone wall: create entire cities in the span of an hour.

sandmote
2020-11-25, 11:29 PM
The reason spells scale poorly is to encourage you to prepare and cast higher level spells once you can. So rather than upcasting fireball forever, the idea is that you'll eventually be preparing Frozen Sphere, Reverse Gravity, Sunburst, and/or Meteor Swarm. Meteor Swarm has better action economy, higher average damage, higher range, and can hit a larger area than your Explosion spell.

Conceptually, this drastically worsens the caster/martial divide, and is a mess for the casters anyway. A combat spell strong enough to be worth using in this manner is going to have the wizard nova once per day and sit back and do nothing the rest of the time. A utility spell is broken if the party doesn't adventure that day (or probably isn't worth casting at all).

Running down particular spells:

Lustras' Perfect Transmutation would be much better it was a longer lasting version of Creation. Have it last indefinitely, just with more material transmuted for less powerful stuff.
Deification doesn't have enough rules in place to explain what is supposed to happen in this case. Perhaps just knockoff Visage of the Deity from 3.5e? Otherwise, it's just "don't let a PC play for 3 rounds as Asmodeus runs around wreaking havoc."
Grasp Heart: saves or suck spells suck. Moreso given the spell leaves the caster defenseless afterward. Any enemy its worth using on that succeeds on the save is going to have one fewer party members to deal with. That's not going to be interesting to play.
I will grant Colerrra's Reinvigoration fits the concept. It's not always a good idea to cast (consider if you just wiped out a host of giants around the party), but I guess it can cripple hordes of undead occasionally.
Explosion: not worth it when Meteor Swarm is on the table.
Lightning Annihilation isn't worth it if you could just use Meteor Swarm either, even if it isn't so much worse. the Main Difference is that one of these leaves you with plenty of spellslots if you open combat with it.
Colerra's Ring of Peace: Slightly more interesting, but I would still drastically reduce the size (and make make t a cube so the area is easier to track) and drop it down to 6th-9th level. The fact it applies to everyone and not just enemies is actually really interesting, but I don't see many people wanting to cast it because of the massive expense.
Sotellian's Polylocation looks like mess to manage. I think Project Image also fills in what you're looking for.
The antimagic aspect of Utter Silence is odd. Otherwise, you could easily fill in the concept at 6th-9th level.
Omniscience can easily become a plot killer (asking for the enemy plan) or a complete waste (if the knowledge on this doesn't exist). Consider how many secret the gods would be able to keep if this was an available option to their clerics.


If you do want such effects, I think they would work better as the uses of legendary items obtained at the end of long, exciting quests.


There is no logic at all in the languages used by the spells.
For example Celestial is nonsense for deification since it is about picking at random a god that might be evil or good and giving it a presence in the world: the alignment language for chaos would make 1000 times more sense.
...
(also why sylvan and not for example gnomish while this kind of shenanigan fits gnomes way better) The spells all appear to use extraplanar languages (counting the fey as from the feywild). Also note the closest 5e gets to "alignment languages," is Celestial, Infernal, and Abyssal.

BerzerkerUnit
2020-11-26, 10:37 AM
I created a wizard subclass that could combine slots to upcast or split a slot to double cast 2 lower level spells at once, so I'm not opposed to this concept on its face.

I agree the mindset that inspired this (upcasting isn't good enough) is flawed since you should be casting higher level spells with bigger slots.

I'm also familiar with the Overlord Anime/Light Novels so the concept of Super Tier magic isn't brand new to me.

I think this might work a little better as Artifact Tomes with a Note that 11th level+ Casters can chose to create one of these instead of learning new spells when they level and if they are a Known Spells caster it permanently reduces their spells known (so they can't swap this one out). Spells so powerful they need a whole spellbook to memorize with preparation and casting so complex the most powerful take days and the swiftest still minutes with displays of magical power gathering during that time can be seen and heard for miles.

The sorcerer balancing factor can probably be managed by making each require a X level slot and all the preceding slots. If you're missing slots you suffer X Y or Z harm. and make the weakest require a 6th level slot to start. That's going to limit you to 1 per day no matter what since A) a sorc can't replace all those missing lower level slots and B) a sorc can't buy 6th+ level slots.

With that system, you're casting the spell but limited to cantrips for the rest of a fight, but a 9th level version of this would require so much effort, it would probably just win the fight anyway. If you saw the episode of Overlord where he uses Super Tier Magic he explains the pros and cons pretty succinctly.

In FR the concept of Super Tier Magic exists after a fashion as Mythal spells. Giving the players the option to cast a spell that determines a new core principle of the of the settings function might be a pretty interesting campaign midpoint.

Like maybe a Druid casts a spell that Steel is not a thing any more. Suddenly all these first world powers have equipment that dissolves into iron ore and coal or bone dust. All the cultures operating with Bronze Age equipment or natural weapons and armor are catapulted into positions of economic and military superiority.

Most would argue that's a plot device, which it is, but the idea of handing the players the keys to the kingdom at the midpoint of your campaign would certainly add some excitement. And to see how planned events unfold in a completely different fashion bc of their decision would be pretty neat collaborative storytelling.

KittenMagician
2020-11-26, 02:56 PM
Thanks for your input guys. it has given me some stuff to think about/consider.