Gnome Artificer Alchemist: Meh?

[Chester]

Hello everyone, I just got Tasha's cauldron of everything and I'm excited to play a Rock gnome artificer.

I built a fifth level alchemist, and I really like the idea of it. However, I feel like I'm missing something. It almost feels like The alchemist doesn't really do anything.

Am I missing something? What's the consensus about alchemists?

[stoutstien]

Alchemist is kinda sad as a subclass. Not unplayable but just feeling lacking in comparison to the others. The EE just have too many limitations to be easy to use. If your DM allows you or a familiar to inject allies that are not down it helps.

[TheMango55]

Alchemist is bad, play an artillerist or battle smith.

[Naanomi]

Their spell list is pretty good, and fill the 'support artificer' role well (my alchemist made items for party members to use, whereas the artillerists and battle smiths I've seen are much more inclined to make items for themselves) but... do lack a bit of mechanical identity that the other options provide. A bit better if your GM allows item crafting (potions being easier and cheaper to make than other nonsense)

[stoutstien]

Tasha did help them out a tad. Grabbing a homunculus that has an attack that keys of the artificer's spell attack gives a nice bonus action filler. The homunculus can also take any other action now which includes administering EE/other potions.

[Makorel]

Green Flame Blade is pretty good on an Alchemist thanks to Alchemical Savant adding your Intelligence modifier to the attack. You can start with 16 Dex and then upgrade to Gauntlets of Ogre Power and then a Belt of Giant's Strength later. You can also get your Homunculus to give you advantage on the attack roll.

[stoutstien]

Green Flame Blade is pretty good on an Alchemist thanks to Alchemical Savant adding your Intelligence modifier to the attack. You can start with 16 Dex and then upgrade to Gauntlets of Ogre Power and then a Belt of Giant's Strength later. You can also get your Homunculus to give you advantage on the attack roll.
Not quite if you are looking at RAW. The homunculus can only act after the artificer and if you want the alchemist savant extra damage/healing you must use the alchemist supplies a a focus which can lead to juggling items. Also it means being solidly behind on attack stat until lv10.

[Dork_Forge]

Alchemist is a good support Artificer, focus on bumping your Int to get the most out of your spells and 5th level ability. It's not the most interesting of Artificers but I don't think it deserves the bad rap that it gets, at 5th level you cancast a buffed damage cantrip with your action and use Healing Word to head 1d4+8 as a ranged Bonus action, that's pretty darn good.

Focus on healing and buffing your party, grab a homuculus and make as many healing potions in your down time as you can. If you grab one of the new 'touched' feats then you can graba couple of useful spells for free once a day and dump your slots into chosen EE and heals.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Alchemist is a good support Artificer, focus on bumping your Int to get the most out of your spells and 5th level ability. It's not the most interesting of Artificers but I don't think it deserves the bad rap that it gets, at 5th level you cancast a buffed damage cantrip with your action and use Healing Word to head 1d4+8 as a ranged Bonus action, that's pretty darn good.

Yea, I think the reason it stands out so much from the other options is because Artificer as a whole doesn't feature many support options in its subclasses. In the short time since it's released in 5e every new addition since the first UA dropped with only two subclasses has been almost entirely offensive focused.

Probably the biggest drawback is for Action Economy where you have some decent in combat EE options that are held back by the fact that a creature must use an action to drink their potion as having it administered to a creature that isn't incapacitated isn't strictly allowed.

I think Alchemist is good. It has a strong theme, pretty good features. I would definitely agree with a statement that it's not the best subclass though, but that doesn't mean it's bad.

[Makorel]

Not quite if you are looking at RAW. The homunculus can only act after the artificer and if you want the alchemist savant extra damage/healing you must use the alchemist supplies a a focus which can lead to juggling items. Also it means being solidly behind on attack stat until lv10.

I admit that I didn't see the part with the homunculus acting after but GFB works with Alchemist Savant according to another thread I asked about this in.

But you're not too far behind on your attacking stat since you've still got access to +1 weapons. The alchemist still hits the important level 5/6 and level 11 damage breakpoints while dipping a bit in the center. The only problem is the fact that it's all fire damage.

Nevermind. I think I was calculating with the rider for the second enemy.

[Dork_Forge]

I admit that I didn't see the part with the homunculus acting after but GFB works with Alchemist Savant according to another thread I asked about this in.

But you're not too far behind on your attacking stat since you've still got access to +1 weapons. The alchemist still hits the important level 5/6 and level 11 damage breakpoints while dipping a bit in the center. The only problem is the fact that it's all fire damage.

Nevermind. I think I was calculating with the rider for the second enemy.

The component for both of those cantrips now has a monetary cost, how are you casting them using Alchemists tools to get the damage bump?

[ZiddyT]

The component for both of those cantrips now has a monetary cost, how are you casting them using Alchemists tools to get the damage bump?

You need both - the weapon and your Tool/Focus. Every Artificer spell requires a Focus to cast, including scagtrips, meaning you're still casting them through your focus even if you're not using it as a material component. See the "Tools Required" feature.

[MrCharlie]

You need both - the weapon and your Tool/Focus. Every Artificer spell requires a Focus to cast, including scagtrips, meaning you're still casting them through your focus even if you're not using it as a material component. See the "Tools Required" feature.
Well, you can cast it with just an infused item, but unless this infused item is both a weapon and your alchemists tools, which is not technically impossible but not clearly supported by any method I know of, you don't get the damage boost. It does appear that you can choose to hold your alchemists tools in the other hand and cast greenflame blade using them, but it does not appear to be a requirement.

[tokek]

Hello everyone, I just got Tasha's cauldron of everything and I'm excited to play a Rock gnome artificer.

I built a fifth level alchemist, and I really like the idea of it. However, I feel like I'm missing something. It almost feels like The alchemist doesn't really do anything.

Am I missing something? What's the consensus about alchemists?

It's not really a combat-focussed subclass so if you want the starring role in combat I would look elsewhere. It is very much a support specialist.

I learned to think of the Elixirs in a different way - its like having an extra 6 spells always ready and a couple of them are really good for a level 1 slot if that is what you need. Both Fly and Alter Self as effective spells without concentration and which cannot be dispelled are surprisingly good. Only the swiftness always felt like a waste to me. The ability to get reliable non-concentration Fly on a 3rd level character is not to be sniffed at, a lot of encounters swing quite hard if you can grant someone the ability to fly.

Healing Word is very often the best Bonus Action you can have available. The ability to pop one of your party back up and into the fight from distance can be a game-changer and yes even if the cleric has it you still really need it on someone else in case the cleric is the one to go down or they are just in the wrong part of the initiative order. You get good bonus actions on the artillerist and battle smith but very often this one that the alchemist gets is more impactful.

Support magicians are very often the least flashy and most effective class out there, that is the role that you want your alchemist in as it is the role they excel in. The rest of your party might even think you are not doing much in combat but believe me those combats would often go a lot worse if you swapped out for a character who just adds some damage output.

The main drawback to the alchemist is how fast you can find yourself burning through your spell slots. Its definitely worth looking to get magic items or infusions which give you good support abilities which do not burn through your slots.

[stoutstien]

Stretching those slots is hard for the alchemist.
As a DM I've only seen one in play long term and that is in an all artificer party. They make a good utility caster with enough flexibility to always have someway to help out but will rarely shine as a stand alone PC. I would double down on utility and go for ritual caster and healer.

[tokek]

Stretching those slots is hard for the alchemist.
As a DM I've only seen one in play long term and that is in an all artificer party. They make a good utility caster with enough flexibility to always have someway to help out but will rarely shine as a stand alone PC. I would double down on utility and go for ritual caster and healer.

Totally this - you need someone else to support as a support caster. I have run one to level 11 and there are a few flattish spots but nothing too bad, they are fun to play and are reasonably balanced to all pillars of the game.

Once you get past level 10 I think it all starts to even out between subclasses as you will lean heavily into magic item crafting and the spell storing item anyway.

Not that an alchemist is useless on their own, after all if you fly and blast things with Firebolt you can wreck face of anything that is weak with missile/magic retaliation. Problem is it just feels cheesy to do it. Alchemists do worthwhile damage with cantrips due to the bonus damage from level 5+.

If I were to play that character through the levels again the one thing I would change would be to have musical proficiency to use the Pipes of Haunting, a worthwhile AoE debuff 3 times per day takes a lot of strain off the spell slots IMO.

[Chester]

It's not really a combat-focussed subclass so if you want the starring role in combat I would look elsewhere. It is very much a support specialist.

. . .

The main drawback to the alchemist is how fast you can find yourself burning through your spell slots. Its definitely worth looking to get magic items or infusions which give you good support abilities which do not burn through your slots.

I'm good being support. We have enough damage dealers so I don't need to star in combat.

I think I'd still like to stay with the alchemist. Recommended magic items? (I took Replicate Item: Bag of Holding, Repeating Shot, Enhanced Defense, and Enhanced Weapon infusions).

[tokek]

I'm good being support. We have enough damage dealers so I don't need to star in combat.

I think I'd still like to stay with the alchemist. Recommended magic items? (I took Replicate Item: Bag of Holding, Repeating Shot, Enhanced Defense, and Enhanced Weapon infusions).

Homunculus Servant is really good unless someone else in your party already has a disposable scout. You can't talk with it unless someone has telepathy of some sort but its still very useful especially in exploration.

Repeating shot is amazing with hand crossbows, it lets you blast away while still holding a shield but as an alchemist you do not get an extra attack. Its an item that gives the best payback when loaned to a character with multiple attacks and even more so if they are a crossbow expert. An alchemist is usually better off using Acid Splash or Fire Bolt instead of a conventional weapon.

As for Enhanced Weapon, if you are running a low-magic campaign this is powerful on one of your frontline fighter types. If by level 5 most frontline characters already have a +1 weapon this is kinda redundant.

Thinking ahead to level 6 you start getting some very enticing infusion possibilities. Any sneak character should love a Cloak of Elvenkind and as I said earlier the Pipes of Haunting give you a good AoE debuff 3 times per day which can swing 3 combats without using a spell slot. A lot of people really like Radiant Weapon at this level, personally I got huge value out of the Repulsion Shield - it seems like a weaker effect but it has no save and with good positioning you can set up all sorts of good things.

[Silpharon]

Not quite if you are looking at RAW. The homunculus can only act after the artificer and if you want the alchemist savant extra damage/healing you must use the alchemist supplies a a focus which can lead to juggling items. Also it means being solidly behind on attack stat until lv10.

You can attack with alchemist supplies as an improvised weapon. This would be a fine thing to do if you've got the tavern brawler feat.

[Cikomyr2]

Replace Experimental Elixir with this:

"When you gain this ability, you may sacrifice an Artificier spell slot of the level of your choice. Select one of your Artificer spell with a range of Self or that can target creatures or humanoids (ex: charm person, heal, False life).

Every day after a long rest you can create *one* potion that replicates the casting of the selected spell, cast a the selected spell slot level, targeting only the person consuming the potion. You can have a number of active potions equal to your proficiency bonus, if you create a potion in excess to this limit, the oldest potion becomes stale.

These potions do not count against your number of maximum infused magical items.

You can change the selected spell to be potioned every time you gain a level. The number of spells you can select to be portioned increase to 2 at level 9, and 3 at level 15.

(note: the later restriction should be re-investigated)

You cannot create more than one potion per long rest, no matter what. Creating that potion does not interfere with the creation or infusion of any other magical item. You need an herbalist or alchemist kit to be able to create potions"


What do you think? Balanced?