Two Reasonable Houserules?

[Guy Lombard-O]

Among other house rules, I was considering the two below. Each touches upon a subject that's been discussed many times, so I don't think either deserves a whole thread. But together, I was hoping for some quick feedback on the following ideas:

1. "Shock" mechanic:
When a creature is at zero hit points and then recovers at least 1 hit point, the creature may still be in shock. The creature must roll a Constitution saving throw at the beginning of its turn, and on a successful save the creature recovers fully. On a failed save, the creature is in shock and is incapacitated for the round. The creature remains in shock until it succeeds a Constitution saving throw. The DC equals half the damage of the blow or effect which reduced the creature to zero hit points, or DC 20, whichever number is lower.


2. Hexblade's Curse:
Starting at 1st level, you gain the ability to place a baleful curse on someone. As an action, choose one creature you can see within 30 feet of you. The target is cursed for 1 minute. The curse ends early if the target dies, you die, or you are incapacitated. Until the curse ends, you gain the following benefits:

You gain a bonus to damage rolls against the cursed target. The bonus equals your proficiency bonus.
Any attack roll you make against the cursed target is a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20 on the d20.
If the cursed target dies, you regain hit points equal to your warlock level + your Charisma modifier (minimum of 1 hit point).

You can’t use this feature again until you finish a short or long rest. Starting at 5th level, you can place this curse upon someone as a bonus action.

[stoutstien]

Eh. Not my favorite way to address yo yo healing but I could see it working. Note that the incapacitated condition doesn't stop them from running around. Also it doesn't prevent the party from continuing corpse tanking.

[MoiMagnus]

1) I'm not sure I've played a single time with official "0HP" death rules. Everybody seems to be using different houserules for those, so sure, why not. (My current DM tracks negative HP.)

2) The range of this feature makes it very difficult to cast before a fight. So a cost of one action instead of a bonus action makes it terrible (and totally unusable if for some reason you also need to use your first action of the fight to invoke your weapon). In fact, I'm not sure I would even use it once before level 5 if nerfed that way, I also need actions to cast spells! Honestly, I'd rather push away to level 5 one of the bonuses of the curse rather than changing its cost to an action. Alternatively, you could keep your nerf but significantly increase the range to really put the curse as a "you need to set up before the fight by sneaking up".
=> You don't want your player to end up thinking "I should just have build for Eldritch blast and forget my weapons altogether". And to compete with "ranged spell attack of 1d10+MCha pushing enemies", you need some kind of interesting effects...

[Darzil]

1) I'd recommend a lower DC than 20. On 20 a character without CON proficiency and 8 CON would never recover from shock! Maybe DC 10 (or half damage), to bring it in line with Concentration saves (which is essentially what this is)?

[Guy Lombard-O]

I'd recommend a lower DC than 20. On 20 a character without CON proficiency and 8 CON would never recover from shock! Maybe DC 10 (or half damage), to bring it in line with Concentration saves (which is essentially what this is)?

Right, but it's the LOWER of the two, not the higher. I was just putting a cap on it in case the character was downed by a Power Word Kill or whatever.


Also it doesn't prevent the party from continuing corpse tanking.

How do you mean, exactly?


2) The range of this feature makes it very difficult to cast before a fight. So a cost of one action instead of a bonus action makes it terrible (and totally unusable if for some reason you also need to use your first action of the fight to invoke your weapon). In fact, I'm not sure I would even use it once before level 5 if nerfed that way, I also need actions to cast spells! Honestly, I'd rather push away to level 5 one of the bonuses of the curse rather than changing its cost to an action. Alternatively, you could keep your nerf but significantly increase the range to really put the curse as a "you need to set up before the fight by sneaking up".
=> You don't want your player to end up thinking "I should just have build for Eldritch blast and forget my weapons altogether". And to compete with "ranged spell attack of 1d10+MCha pushing enemies", you need some kind of interesting effects...

You may be right about that. I wasn't really trying to be overly punitive to pure Hexblades, but just trying to curb the multiclass dipping (along with moving Hex Warrior's Cha attacks to Blade Pact). So maybe that's a little too harsh.

[Spiderswims]

1.Shock-fells a bit too annoying and too much of a way to keep a character out of a fight. You might not want to add to the game another effect that tells a player "ok, you just sit there, you are not allowed to play yet".

If you want a shock mechanic maybe just give the character a -2 to rolls or force them to move at half speed or something like that. So the players can still have their character act, just not at 100%.


2.I guess this minor curse is ok. But I wonder what it will really do? Obviously the hexblade with auto use this power at the start of every fight. And then loose the power until they rest.

This just adds to the annoying short rest yo-yo: The player will fight a single goblin and then demand their character run away and short rest so they can come back and use the ability/power again.

So you might want something like:

Easy recharge: If the hexblade kills the foe they recharge the ability. This not only give the player a reason to fight, but also can keep the ability going for hours. I like the idea that the hexblade can 'save' and reuse a bad curse.

[Garfunion]

When it comes to yo-yo healing my solution was to just give a player character who’s hit points dropped to zero, a level of exhaustion.

[Guy Lombard-O]

When it comes to yo-yo healing my solution was to just give a player character who’s hit points dropped to zero, a level of exhaustion.

Yes, I recall seeing that solution before. I don't dislike it, but it feels a bit harsher than what I was going for. I'm seeking a lighter curb, one that won't carry over from fight to fight (let alone be an all-day disability).

[Amdy_vill]

I have my own "Shock" mechanic. when you drop to zero hit points and make a death saving throw you gain 1 point of exhaustion. instead of penalizing players for raising fallen party members, I reword them. an old warcraft bit and switch. this also makes fights more dangerous and encourages no combat options. I have found thou, like most homebrew it is better to use it after playing with a party for a while and getting familiar with their play styles.

Also if you have made 5 death save nad have not died you last death save does not give you a point of Exhaustion if you succeed. it would be supremely evil if you succeed on a death save just to die of exhaustion because of house rules.

My players like this rule but we have suspended it when playing a more powerful game. my normal games are tough as nails hards and focus on surviving the dangerous wilds so when we step back and play a more power fantasy game I pull this rule back to only failed death saves. oh and I also don't have exhaustion effect rolls while downed. according to the rules, Exhaustion does affect death saves so to prevent a death spiral any exhaustion gained during the death saves does not apply until you are up. this does mean that if it is your second time down you may still death spiral.

[MoiMagnus]

You may be right about that. I wasn't really trying to be overly punitive to pure Hexblades, but just trying to curb the multiclass dipping (along with moving Hex Warrior's Cha attacks to Blade Pact). So maybe that's a little too harsh.

If you fear multiclassing, I'd say move the "+ prof dmg" of the curse to level 3. And maybe say that you don't get the proficiency to medium armour, shield and weapons if you multiclassed into hexblade (similarly to how you don't get the heavy armour proficiency if you muticlass into fighter).

Oh, and do your players start at level 1?
If yes, because of your change on the Cha attacks, you need to be very clear with your warlock players on how much time they will take to level up to level 3, because that changes how much you put in Dex (or Str).

[micahaphone]

1) personally, I'm against houserules for death save penalties, it seems to punish melee martials more than casters. Having monsters hit downed characters is enough to make the game deadlier. But if you want to have some penalties, rather than action denial I'd apply some level of Bane, or if subtracting a D4 is too much slowdown, just add a -2 or -3 penalty to everything the character does until they have a few minutes to catch their breath.

2) I totally get why you'd want to nerf hexblade, but I think the best methods are to either fold the medium armor, shields, cha attacks into pact of the blade, or just have a conversation with players where you request that if they're going warlock/hexblade, that they spend more than 2 levels in the class. A gentleman's agreement to not dip and dive. I'd personally be okay with a hexblade player from level 1 if I knew they weren't going to multiclass out the second it became opportune.

[stoutstien]

How do you mean, exactly?


A downed PC is still the best target unless they are dead dead. So they can still eat attacks and a single HP of healing reset the whole cycle. Unless the party has a way of dropping a lot of recovery on a single action, yo yo healing the fallen ally is still the best strategy even with the risk of incapacitation.