dark chaos shuffle and epic levels

[newguydude1]

if your level 22, can you use the dark chaos shuffle to change all of your 1-18 feats into epic feats?


one of them is immediately removed and replaced by any other feat for which the subject qualifies

thats the extent of the limitation. so does this mean i can use dark chaos shuffle to put ignore material components on a 3rd level feat slot, improved spell capacity on my 9th and 12th level spell slots, etc.?

or is there a generic epic feat rule im not aware of that forces you to put them solely on feat slots obtained above 20th level?

[Doctor Despair]

By RAW, you should also be able to use the PHB retraining rules to replace your 1-18 feats with epic feats over a much longer period of time. However, it's something you should be prepared to have the DM veto as a houserule, as it's a very TO technique.

[newguydude1]

By RAW, you should also be able to use the PHB retraining rules to replace your 1-18 feats with epic feats over a much longer period of time. However, it's something you should be prepared to have the DM veto as a houserule, as it's a very TO technique.

you cant use retraining rules because every single one of those clauses repeat that you must show that you could qualify for the feat at the time.

[Doctor Despair]

you cant use retraining rules because every single one of those clauses repeat that you must show that you could qualify for the feat at the time.

I looked back at it, and you're right; I was misremembering that you could use them this way. You can use the retraining rules to lose feats you used as prerequisites for a prc though.

I'll also note that it's not ALL of the clauses; skills, for example, don't care when the skill became a class skill

[newguydude1]

I looked back at it, and you're right; I was misremembering that you could use them this way. You can use the retraining rules to lose feats you used as prerequisites for a prc though.

seems your right. class features explicitly say that you cant retrain something that would make a later choice illegal. but feat retraining lacks that clause.


as it's a very TO technique.

i dont think its to. epic feats have such stupid prerequisites in order to not wait until levle 30 something which games never reach you need to do things like what im trying to do.

[Anthrowhale]

For the OP question, I believe the answer is "yes" by RAW.

[blackwindbears]

i dont think its to. epic feats have such stupid prerequisites in order to not wait until levle 30 something which games never reach you need to do things like what im trying to do.

The point of those pre-reqs is so that you can't reach them until level 30. This is like arguing that you need to do some weird TO technique to get level 9 spell slots at level 7, because most games don't reach level 17.

[Doctor Despair]

The point of those pre-reqs is so that you can't reach them until level 30. This is like arguing that you need to do some weird TO technique to get level 9 spell slots at level 7, because most games don't reach level 17.

Eh, some classes really need the help to stay competitive (e.g. Bards with Music of the Gods)

[blackwindbears]

Eh, some classes really need the help to stay competitive (e.g. Bards with Music of the Gods)

None of those classes have Embrace the Dark Chaos on their spell list though