Phantasmal Force ideas for Aboleth.

[kbob]

As the title suggests.
I’m looking for ideas on uses for the Aboleths lair action, phantasmal Force. I’m just preparing in case the players decide to attack instead of engage in dialogue. The surrounding will either be on a cavernous, underground coastline or in the water in a cave under the coastline they came in on (all depending on how the players pursue it).

Ideas for both are welcome. Really mean and nasty ideas get bonus points. They are using this route as a short cut to their main objective. They have been warned numerous times of the danger. They even, went 1/3 on the longer path all to turn around and take this path. No hint of treasure or reward and plenty of warnings of danger. But sure. I guess the characters believe they can use more “experience” in life.
I put it in there as they are going to kill an Alhoon (a lich wannabe mindflayer to those that don’t know). Mindflayer are the one thing aboleths fear as they have no memory of them. Abs have perfect memory from their whole lives and their own ancestors. They are born with perfect memory of all of their lineage and they predate the gods. However, MFs are from the future so Abs don’t remember them. You fear what you don’t know.
So the Ab will seek to employ the players to bring back the body (or prisoner) of the MF. In return it will satisfies their deepest desires. It will just be done through enslavement and basically mind screwing them into thinking they’re in bliss (like the matrix).
Anyway, I just need to be prepared for the fight whether it happens before or after the alhoon. And I am craving dirty little tricks for phantasm Force. creative, mean, and funny too.
Thank you all in advance!

[Segev]

An important note is what the spell can and cannot create, which limits the "Creativity" it sometimes is attributed:
The target must make an Intelligence saving throw. On a failed save, you create a phantasmal object, creature, or other visible phenomenon of your choice that is no larger than a 10-foot cube and that is perceivable only to the target for the duration.

So, you can make a creature, an object, or a "visible phenomenon." It also "includes sound, temperature, and other stimuli, also evident only to the creature."

What it cannot do is make anything extant appear not to be there, so you can't hide an ally easily. However, if you're clever and careful about it, you could have an ally be "covered" by an illusory monster. The trouble is that you can't keep the ally hidden from the target if it moves away.

But, if you've got some battle-buddies using tactics like Sentinel or Pack Tactics and thus staying close together, you can have one appear to burst into a monster, and let the ally keep talking, but have the monster-he's-become jerk in with snarling and hateful interruptions to make it look like he's fighting himself even as he attacks the PC.

Now, this isn't great, because it has so many points of failure, and it also has the issue of the players having a good idea of what's going on even if the target character is fooled. (Might also cause metagaming to find excuses - such as "1d6 isn't that dangerous" - not to treat the illusion as real, anyway.)


Another trick would be an illusion of the aboleth, itself. Especially if the creature can hide under the water effectively, creating illusory aboleths for individual PCs to fight, each "hiding" to explain why the others aren't noticing, can confuse the players as well as the characters. The real one can even hide within the space of an illusory one to make that one more convincing, before slipping back to hide again.


If the aboleth can expose any of the PCs to its mucous, it could create an illusion of water engulfing them. Now they think they're drowning because they can't escape the water, rather than because they're in air they can no longer breathe. This will delay them attempting to get to the water, especially if the aboleth keeps feigning trying to drag them into said water. And even if their allies see them gasping on dry land, the players will think it's because the target is fooled by the fake water into suffocating.


While this is usually more effective with silent image, making the ground appear to extend ten feet further into the water than it does might trick some into faling into the water when they meant to stay on land.


Ooh, how about wriggling leeches inside their armor? Biting and bleeding them out and impossible to get at while the armor is still worn!

[heavyfuel]

A box is always good. It blocks vision and impedes movement. Put spikes inside the illusory box so it also deals damage.

I usuallyfluff my Phantasmal Force boxes as iron maidens just for fun.

[JackPhoenix]

A box is always good. It blocks vision and impedes movement. Put spikes inside the illusory box so it also deals damage.

I usuallyfluff my Phantasmal Force boxes as iron maidens just for fun.

Except it's not solid, so anyone can just take the damage from spikes and walk right through the box, justifiying it however they want. You need something they wouldn't want to touch or move in the first place.

[Segev]

Except it's not solid, so anyone can just take the damage from spikes and walk right through the box, justifiying it however they want. You need something they wouldn't want to touch or move in the first place.

This is a perpetual sticking point with illusions. If the player knows it’s an illusion, they are inherently thinking about it differently than if they think it’s real (in the context of the game). If a player is told he’s locked in a Iron Maiden, how likely is he to think to move out of the box by just stepping forward?

He’s more likely, though not guaranteed, to try to force it open and thus fail because there’s nothing to force and he’ll justify the failure in some fashion.

But if he knows it’s not real, the choice to just walk out seems obvious. But is metagaming. Which is hard to avoid when you have knowledge your character doesn’t. Now you have to figure out if you’re motivated by the sure knowledge of what’s going on or if you’re really planning based on only what the character knows.

[JackPhoenix]

This is a perpetual sticking point with illusions. If the player knows it’s an illusion, they are inherently thinking about it differently than if they think it’s real (in the context of the game). If a player is told he’s locked in a Iron Maiden, how likely is he to think to move out of the box by just stepping forward?

He’s more likely, though not guaranteed, to try to force it open and thus fail because there’s nothing to force and he’ll justify the failure in some fashion.

But if he knows it’s not real, the choice to just walk out seems obvious. But is metagaming. Which is hard to avoid when you have knowledge your character doesn’t. Now you have to figure out if you’re motivated by the sure knowledge of what’s going on or if you’re really planning based on only what the character knows.

If there's nothing to force, there's also nothing to stop the movement of his hands, which he'll justify as the lid not being locked, so he's free to just move away. How is that a failure?

[heavyfuel]

If there's nothing to force, there's also nothing to stop the movement of his hands, which he'll justify as the lid not being locked, so he's free to just move away. How is that a failure?

I agree with Segev that it's very metagamey. Since they still believe in the illusion, once they try to open it, the DM can say they thought for a second the thing was open, but it's still definitely locked.

That also counts as a rationalization.

[JackPhoenix]

I agree with Segev that it's very metagamey. Since they still believe in the illusion, once they try to open it, the DM can say they thought for a second the thing was open, but it's still definitely locked.

That also counts as a rationalization.

What about their arm that's now elbow-deep in what was supposed to be a solid, closed lid, then?

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I had mine set up in a cave with multiple twisty exits, like a Maze. When it fled it just put up an illusionary wall, and the party went down a for that had a cave in trap. Split up the party. Then if the Abolith isn't in too bad shape it can come back and finish of one or two that get through, maybe with some Chull.
Abolith are smart and long lived, so I tried to play it so it would only enter fights it could win.

[Gignere]

What about their arm that's now elbow-deep in what was supposed to be a solid, closed lid, then?

That’s the investigation check to see if they see through it. As DM that’s how I would rule if a player asks to push the door open. Basically they have described that they are investigating it, based on the results of the roll I will determine what happens to the player. If he passes he realizes it’s an illusion. If the check failed player takes a d6 in damage because they got damaged by the spike and they pull their hands back reflexively and think the Iron Maiden is real.

The actual timing of the damage may occur in the casters turn as per RAW but since everything happens concurrently it should work narratively.

[Segev]

If there's nothing to force, there's also nothing to stop the movement of his hands, which he'll justify as the lid not being locked, so he's free to just move away. How is that a failure?

That’s not how that works. It doesn’t say whatever they try works. It says they justify impossible things. Such as going through a bridge they think is there; they slipped or it broke or something.

It doesn’t say they successfully shove their hands through and know it. If they’re tackled out of it, then yes, they’ll justify that somehow. But they don’t have carts Blanche to ignore the illusion because it doesn’t react appropriately or they try something that can’t work but also doesn’t end with them in an impossible position.

They can try to shove it open, but they’ll fail and rationalize it as not being able to shove hard enough.

[JackPhoenix]

That’s not how that works. It doesn’t say whatever they try works. It says they justify impossible things. Such as going through a bridge they think is there; they slipped or it broke or something.

It doesn’t say they successfully shove their hands through and know it. If they’re tackled out of it, then yes, they’ll justify that somehow. But they don’t have carts Blanche to ignore the illusion because it doesn’t react appropriately or they try something that can’t work but also doesn’t end with them in an impossible position.

They can try to shove it open, but they’ll fail and rationalize it as not being able to shove hard enough.

How is the ability to reach through what should be a solid object not an impossible situation?

They can't fail, because again, there's nothing to stop the movement of their hands. If their hands move through what was supposed to be a solid object, the most obvious rationalization for the result is "the object moved when pushed and the lid is open" not "I've pushed my hands through the lid, but the lid somehow remains closed". The iron maiden is still there, but it doesn't stop them from simply walking out, just like the bridge in the PHB example is still there, but can't support their weight.

[Segev]

How is the ability to reach through what should be a solid object not an impossible situation?

They can't fail, because again, there's nothing to stop the movement of their hands. If their hands move through what was supposed to be a solid object, the most obvious rationalization for the result is "the object moved when pushed and the lid is open" not "I've pushed my hands through the lid, but the lid somehow remains closed". The iron maiden is still there, but it doesn't stop them from simply walking out, just like the bridge in the PHB example is still there, but can't support their weight.

Doesn’t mean they perceive that they put their hands through solid metal. Otherwise, they also perceive that the illusory monster didn’t wound them when it bit them. The damage is all psychic, after all, and the monster’s teeth went in and out without leaving marks.

I think people try to make this spell weaker than it is and in the process make it truly useless.

Worse, the uselessness of it in any but some very specific ways means that it gets used to do only a very narrow and limited set of things. What good is a phenomenon or creature when the only use that works is a blindfold that can’t be removed?

This is supposed to be a very convincing illusion due to being in the target’s mind. It explicitly has tactile and olfactory properties, but people seem to want to render the former entirely useless by letting “impossible acts” extend to the illusion not convincing them that it’s real enough that they failed to try things that would violate the tactile element.

The target perceives the metal walls and spikes as solid. He knocks on them and feels their unyielding hardness. He hammers at them and shoved desperately, and he doesn’t feel nor see his hands go through any more than he sees the bridge turn whispy when his foot falls through. Just as he rationalizes that he slipped off the bridge, he rationalizes that he tried to punch through the steel and failed. He sees and hears his fists pounding on metal. Whether he subconsciously holds his hands from going through or he just misperception his hands as stopping when they didn’t is irrelevant.

In fact, I’d go so far as to suggest that maybe even if he simply walks forward, the illusory box follows him and he rationalizes that he ran into the side and did t move. He thinks he’s still in the same place; after all, it would be impossible to walk through it, and he still sees it around him, so clearly he walked into the side of it and pushed but got nowhere.

[Gignere]

In fact, I’d go so far as to suggest that maybe even if he simply walks forward, the illusory box follows him and he rationalizes that he ran into the side and did t move. He thinks he’s still in the same place; after all, it would be impossible to walk through it, and he still sees it around him, so clearly he walked into the side of it and pushed but got nowhere.

I would go as far as actions trying to defeat the illusion is basically the player spending their action on an investigation check and the results of that check determines whether the PC defeats the illusion or not.

[Segev]

I would go as far as actions trying to defeat the illusion is basically the player spending their action on an investigation check and the results of that check determines whether the PC defeats the illusion or not.

That’s reasonably fair. I only object to the character getting a free “escape the illusion” action because the player knows it’s one and decides to do an “impossible action” that is rationalized as freeing them.

Also, the size limitation is already problematic for even some of the examples given. A bridge that fits within a ten foot cube is hardly one they need to walk across. More than half of characters can jump ten feet.

[Gignere]

That’s reasonably fair. I only object to the character getting a free “escape the illusion” action because the player knows it’s one and decides to do an “impossible action” that is rationalized as freeing them.

Also, the size limitation is already problematic for even some of the examples given. A bridge that fits within a ten foot cube is hardly one they need to walk across. More than half of characters can jump ten feet.

I always rule it that way and if a player complains I just point out they don’t complain when they need to spend an action to escape web so they shouldn’t complain when they need an action to escape Phantasmal Force.

Also this circumvents the need for the DM to judge whether the PC made a good illusion or not. Sometimes letting the dice decide is the fairest course of action and I think this is the case for PF.