Can Jump Distance Exceed Movent Speed?

[Yakmala]

I'm eager to try out the new Path of the Beast Barbarian. While most posts discussing the class have focused on their ability to get four attacks early in their careers, I'm equally excited about their 6th level ability Beastial Soul, which allows the Barbarian to make a Strength (Athletics) check when they jump and add the total to the roll. As written, this applies to both long jump and high jump.

For the game I'm using this Barbarian in, I'll re-making an existing 5th level character into a Beast Barb, so this level 6 ability is right around the corner. Even better, I'll be swapping out an uncommon magic item they possess for a Ring of Jumping.

Under normal circumstances, this Barbarian, which currently has a 16 strength, would have a long jump of 16' and a high jump of 6'. Using Beastial Soul, and assuming an average roll of 10 +6 from proficient Athletics, that increases the long jump to around 32' and the high jump to around 22'. Now triple that while under the effect of the Ring of Jumping and we're talking a 96' long jump and a 66' high jump. When raging and rolling the Athletics check with Advantage, it would be even further. Sounds fun!

However...

Reading the text of the Jump rules in the PHB we find that "each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement."

So, assuming a Barbarian with a movement speed of 40' due to Fast Movement, and taking into account that the jump requires 10' of a running start, can the character's leap actually exceed the 30 remaining feet of movement?

Were I DM'ing such a character, my personal interpretation would be that abilities like Beastial Soul and magic such as the Jump spell are modifiers to the character's movement speed for the purposes of Jump only, and the increased jump distance would work.

But this is just my interpretation. I'd like to hear what other people have to say on the matter.

[Quietus]

Unfortunately no. It's quite clear; you move 5', it counts as moving 5'. So if you have a 50' base speed, you cannot exceed that distance with a single jump. The part that is up to the DM is what happens if your jump exceeds that - are you left hanging midair, or are you only allowed to leap up to a maximum of your speed?

[Rakoa]

I would rule that your jump continues to use your movement turn by turn until you have landed.

[Throne12]

I would rule that your jump continues to use your movement turn by turn until you have landed.

This is how it is. I don't know where but I remember someone from wotc talking about this.

[Yakmala]

I would rule that your jump continues to use your movement turn by turn until you have landed.

I had considered this, but that could make enhanced jumping worse than useless. Using the example above, it would take three turns to complete a mighty jump. And what are you doing during those turns? If you are melee, absolutely nothing. And if you were leaping at a target, they have long since moved out of the way. You would have been far better off not jumping at all.

[Damon_Tor]

I allow "hang time". If you have a jumping distance greater than your speed you can end your turn mid jump, and must continue the jump on your next turn.

[Asisreo1]

Unless you're flying, you're on the ground.

That means if you have 40 ft jump and 30ft of movement, you jump in the air and land before your turn ends 30ft away.

If you want to move a further distance, you must dash. Think of it as putting more energy into the jump itself.

[Thunderous Mojo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abr_LU822rQ
I allow "hang time". If you have a jumping distance greater than your speed you can end your turn mid jump, and must continue the jump on your next turn.

6 second hang time..."it's gotta be the shoes!"

[Damon_Tor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abr_LU822rQ

6 second hang time..."it's gotta be the shoes!"

There isn't a 6-second period of inaction following your turn before your turn begins again: all the actions taken during a round happen more or less at the same time. So if you take some action or another, then run a bit and jump at the end of your turn, your next turn begins right after your previous turn ends.

Yes, if your jump distance is so absurdly beefy that you do cannot land even during your second turn, the result would be a very silly amount of hangtime.

[Naanomi]

So the trick is to... maximize jump distance while minimizing walk distance... to push that hang time as much as possible

[Segev]

The funny thing is that you can increase hang time by not dashing.

But abstraction is never perfect and this shouldn’t come up terribly often.

[Damon_Tor]

So the trick is to... maximize jump distance while minimizing walk distance... to push that hang time as much as possible


The funny thing is that you can increase hang time by not dashing.

But abstraction is never perfect and this shouldn’t come up terribly often.

The thing is, the hang time is a bad thing, not something a player is likely to want. You're the air so long the enemy has ample opportunity to move away (or towards) where you're jumping to, and you can't change your destination square mid-jump, so the enemy can intuit where you'll land.

If the players want to be silly and jump in slow motion then that's fine, I'm inclined to let them have their fun, they won't gain much mechanical advantage from doing so.

[Naanomi]

Not often, but sometimes... especially if you are high enough (or can jump high enough) to be out of melee range while you still have ranged options... flight light

[Damon_Tor]

Not often, but sometimes... especially if you are high enough (or can jump high enough) to be out of melee range while you still have ranged options... flight light

You know, if the player can figure out a build that actually gets this working in a functional way, I'll just call it a wushu campaign and roll with it. But I have a hard time imagining this would be worth it.

[Chauncymancer]

I had considered this, but that could make enhanced jumping worse than useless. Using the example above, it would take three turns to complete a mighty jump. And what are you doing during those turns? If you are melee, absolutely nothing. And if you were leaping at a target, they have long since moved out of the way. You would have been far better off not jumping at all.


The thing is, the hang time is a bad thing, not something a player is likely to want. You're the air so long the enemy has ample opportunity to move away (or towards) where you're jumping to, and you can't change your destination square mid-jump, so the enemy can intuit where you'll land.

If the players want to be silly and jump in slow motion then that's fine, I'm inclined to let them have their fun, they won't gain much mechanical advantage from doing so.
I think we're maybe ignoring the fact that if you're actually jumping in combat, it's probably because a pit or a platform or deadly rough terrain is in between you and your target, so the alternative to hangtime is not an effective combat maneuver, it's falling 2000' into the lava below. If you have to spend two whole turns jumping, why is the enemy 160 unwalkable feet away from you?

You know, if the player can figure out a build that actually gets this working in a functional way, I'll just call it a wushu campaign and roll with it. But I have a hard time imagining this would be worth it.
In the forgotten realms there is a tree dwelling humanoid species who, in an earlier edition, got a +1 hit, +1d6 damage bonus for every ten feet of falling they did before hitting an enemy. Put that feat on a thri-kreen with a ring of jump and had a blast.

[MaxWilson]

I would rule that your jump continues to use your movement turn by turn until you have landed.

So if I'm a Str 12 halfling PC, and I'm wearing heavy armor to reduce my speed to 15', and then I step on caltrops to reduce my speed to 5', I can make my standing long jump (6' long) last for six seconds?

Edit: and as long as someone keeps hitting me with Ray of Frost, I'll never come down.

[Damon_Tor]

So if I'm a Str 12 halfling PC, and I'm wearing heavy armor to reduce my speed to 15', and then I step on caltrops to reduce my speed to 5', I can make my standing long jump (6' long) last for six seconds?

Edit: and as long as someone keeps hitting me with Ray of Frost, I'll never come down.

If the ray of frost can change the velocity of your jump after your feet have left the ground, presumably the caltrops would cease to effect the velocity of your jump once you lift off. For consistency. Either your velocity is "locked in" when your feet leave the ground or it can be changed, but you can't have it both ways.

And as noted earlier, the "6 second hangtime" problem is just a framing issue. If your feet leave the ground at the end of one turn and hit the ground again at the start of the next, 6 seconds hasn't passed, an arbitrary number of seconds which is <6 has passed. This is only an issue when you optimize it to the point where your jump can last for more than two rounds. At which point I would allow my players to be as silly as they like with their brand new wushu characters and invent villains for them who do the same thing.

[Naanomi]

Our Hero is ready to jump, she has supporters on hand to help, and she has read tome after tome to get her stats to well beyond normal mortal limitations. She has trained for this moment.

30': Base Longjump (Strength Score)
+1d8': Satyr
Result of an Athletics Check: Barbarian{Beast}6
30': Fighter{Champion} 7 (Strength Score)
10': Rogue{Thief}3 (Dexterity Modifier)
2X: Monk2, Step of the Wind

3X: Jump Spell (cast by someone else)

Now... that Athletics check...
1d20: Base
7: Proficiency Bonus, With Ioun Stone of Mastery
7: Expertise in Athletics
1: Stone of Good Luck
1d12: Bardic Inspiration (by friendly Bard)
1d4: Guidance (cast by someone else)
1d4: Emboldening Bond (Used by friendly Peace Cleric)
1d4: Bend Luck (Used by friendly Wild Sorcerer)

Assuming perfect rolls that means... 774' Jump? With a move speed of 30 (I can kill the move speed bonuses from classes by wearing heavy armor) that is a hang time of... 26 Rounds (before finding other ways of artificially lowering movement speed)

I... Suspect we might milk more with Shapeshift/Polymorph/Wildshape?? but I don't have resources on hand to dig through all the options.

((NOTE: Not enough class levels to get a few extra bonuses, Paladin{Glory}3; Warlock{Fiend}6, Bard{Lore}14+))

[MaxWilson]

If the ray of frost can change the velocity of your jump after your feet have left the ground, presumably the caltrops would cease to effect the velocity of your jump once you lift off. For consistency. Either your velocity is "locked in" when your feet leave the ground or it can be changed, but you can't have it both ways.

I don't see why not. We're already in the realm of the absurd RAW. Why would my speed increase just because I'm in the middle of a jump?

BTW multiple-round jump is already achieved by this guy via Ray of Frost (or grappling himself), but if you don't like that then let's let him have a Jump spell. Now it takes him three rounds and part of a fourth to make his 18' standing long jump.

[Samayu]

I had considered this, but that could make enhanced jumping worse than useless. Using the example above, it would take three turns to complete a mighty jump. And what are you doing during those turns? If you are melee, absolutely nothing. And if you were leaping at a target, they have long since moved out of the way. You would have been far better off not jumping at all.

If you were intending to use a mighty jump to increase the amount of distance you could cover in a turn, then yes, worse than useless. And by that I mean that the rules don't support this.

On the other hand, if you could jump 80 feet, and had a 70 foot chasm to cross, and no other way to defeat the bad guys, then you'd be the hero, even if it did take you two turns to get across.

[Imbalance]

I'm flashing back to the fight scene in Shrek when Fiona takes time to fix her hair mid jump kick as she trounces the Merry Men.

[MoiMagnus]

Cross-Movement speeds are absurd anyway:
If you have "flying 60ft and walking 30ft", you can walk 20ft then fly for 40ft, but if you start by flying for 40ft you can no longer walk after that.

So it's not a surprise if jumping rules are weird.

As a general rule, you cannot have more controlled movement per turn than your movement speed, and jumping is counted as a controlled movement. Uncontrolled movement is unbounded: e.g Xanathar says that you free fall 500ft per turn, and in general being pushed around doesn't count toward your speed.
=> It would not be absurd to consider that if you're trying to jump for more than your movement speed, the remaining of your jump is assumed "uncontrolled", so you crash on the ground at your destination and take falling damages adequate to the distance.

[KorvinStarmast]

You know, if the player can figure out a build that actually gets this working in a functional way, I'll just call it a wushu campaign and roll with it. Monk. Use Step of the wind to increase move distance. Be a tabaxi or a wood elf. Get a belt of hill giant strength or ogre gaunts (Uncommon). Get a ring of jumping (Uncommon).
Bounce all over the map. IIRC, the athlete feat lets you get max jumping with only 5 feet head start. 4.
You can make a running long jump or a running high jump after moving only 5 feet on foot, rather than 10 feet

[Mr Adventurer]

You know, if the player can figure out a build that actually gets this working in a functional way, I'll just call it a wushu campaign and roll with it. But I have a hard time imagining this would be worth it.

Just do the jump at the end of your movement, no need for shenanigans.


Monk. Use Step of the wind to increase move distance. Be a tabaxi or a wood elf. Get a belt of hill giant strength or ogre gaunts (Uncommon). Get a ring of jumping (Uncommon).
Bounce all over the map. IIRC, the athlete feat lets you get max jumping with only 5 feet head start. 4.

Step of the Wind also doubles jump distance, so combined with Ring of Jumping, you can get a multiplier of x6 (x2 x3). Belt of Hill Giant Strength is Str 21, so you get a Jump distance of 126 feet.

Tabaxi Feline Agility doubles your speed, as does Step of the Wind, for a x4 modifier. Have someone cast Longstrider on you (or do it yourself via Magic Initiate or a Ring of Spell Storing or something). Monk already grants you +10 movement at the level you get Ki. Let's say you take Mobile as well, so your base speed is 50 ft., x4 is 100 ft. If you can also get Haste on you, your speed is doubled, for a speed of 200 ft.

[Amdy_vill]

no, but with some give. so the rules prevent you from jumping farther than your movement speed, but it doesn't explain what happens if you can. some people rule that you land at the end of your turn, some people rule that you can continue moving on your next turn. I suggest the second. if you can jump 50ft but only move 30 you move 30 on your first turn then 20 on your next.

[Samayu]

That thing where people say that if you don't have enough movement left to complete your jump, you stop moving? And suddenly start falling? That's stupid. I mean D&D rules can break the laws of physics just for the sake of playability, but this does so rather pointlessly. I mean, the rules don't even support that interpretation, so why choose the interpretation that breaks physic even worse?

[Luccan]

That thing where people say that if you don't have enough movement left to complete your jump, you stop moving? And suddenly start falling? That's stupid. I mean D&D rules can break the laws of physics just for the sake of playability, but this does so rather pointlessly. I mean, the rules don't even support that interpretation, so why choose the interpretation that breaks physic even worse?

Has anyone said that? I thought the argument was you "stop" (keeping in mind each round happens in the space of six seconds so that's just the distance you happen to move in the round, you don't actually pause midair) and then land after completing your full jump the next round.

Personally, I don't see this coming up all that often. Jump isn't a very popular spell, even with the Invocation that lets you cast it for free. Beyond that and a couple magic items you're usually jumping under your movement speed anyway, unless you're combining a bunch of class abilities that... honestly wouldn't be that impressive of a multiclass. Which I assume was done on purpose. I'm more inclined to just let the magically enhanced jumper choose exactly how far they jump, so as not to waste movement on the next turn. So they know how far they can move and if they still want to move that distance in a jump they can, but now "wasting" the movement is their choice.

[Segev]

Has anyone said that? I thought the argument was you "stop" (keeping in mind each round happens in the space of six seconds so that's just the distance you happen to move in the round, you don't actually pause midair) and then land after completing your full jump the next round.

Personally, I don't see this coming up all that often. Jump isn't a very popular spell, even with the Invocation that lets you cast it for free. Beyond that and a couple magic items you're usually jumping under your movement speed anyway, unless you're combining a bunch of class abilities that... honestly wouldn't be that impressive of a multiclass. Which I assume was done on purpose. I'm more inclined to just let the magically enhanced jumper choose exactly how far they jump, so as not to waste movement on the next turn. So they know how far they can move and if they still want to move that distance in a jump they can, but now "wasting" the movement is their choice.

It's anecdotal, but I do have a character I'm about to play in a game starting up in the next few weeks who will be actively seeking a Ring of Jumping. Of course, "bonus action to cast at will" is even better than the Invocation, so....

[Luccan]

It's anecdotal, but I do have a character I'm about to play in a game starting up in the next few weeks who will be actively seeking a Ring of Jumping. Of course, "bonus action to cast at will" is even better than the Invocation, so....

A relatively minor problem I think WotC has is that they don't consider jumping to be something you'd want to do all that often in combat. More fully, they seem to assume anyone without the ability to fly or teleport is uninterested in special movement options. So you get weird holes like this. Again, I don't think it will come up often, but as you demonstrate here it can come up. Despite my relative lack of concern it's something I have to consider in an E4 game I want to run since Jump will be the main shareable options for accelerated vertical movement, what with Fly off the table and Levitate being otherwise stationary and explicitly limited in height.

[Zalabim]

A relatively minor problem I think WotC has is that they don't consider jumping to be something you'd want to do all that often in combat. More fully, they seem to assume anyone without the ability to fly or teleport is uninterested in special movement options. So you get weird holes like this. Again, I don't think it will come up often, but as you demonstrate here it can come up. Despite my relative lack of concern it's something I have to consider in an E4 game I want to run since Jump will be the main shareable options for accelerated vertical movement, what with Fly off the table and Levitate being otherwise stationary and explicitly limited in height.

I get the impression that the ability to jump over Difficult, impassable, or dangerous terrain was an expected benefit that it turns out most players just never use. Having a good jump distance means you can cover more ground than other characters in these common situations. It feels like WotC cares more about jumping in combat than players do.

[Tanarii]

Under normal circumstances, this Barbarian, which currently has a 16 strength, would have a long jump of 16' and a high jump of 6'. Using Beastial Soul, and assuming an average roll of 10 +6 from proficient Athletics, that increases the long jump to around 32' and the high jump to around 22'. Now triple that while under the effect of the Ring of Jumping and we're talking a 96' long jump and a 66' high jump. When raging and rolling the Athletics check with Advantage, it would be even further. Sounds fun!

You can't exceed movement, but you can make a 48' standing long jump, and a 33' standing high jump. A Barbarian with Longstrider on them can do those without being capped.

IMX since standing jumps are far more commonly used that long jumps, it take a fair amount before a character hits the movement limit.

[Telok]

I get the impression that the ability to jump over Difficult, impassable, or dangerous terrain was an expected benefit that it turns out most players just never use. Having a good jump distance means you can cover more ground than other characters in these common situations. It feels like WotC cares more about jumping in combat than players do.

Probably true. I think players care more about jumping to get somewhere, while the designers thought more about jumping to avoid having to use a less effective attack form.

More precisely I think the designers thought jumping was for a fighter to get over a patch of terrain to make several melee attacks instead of throwing a javelin, while players think about things like jumping to the top of a wall or balcony to do something. So the designers never considered jumping more than your move because then you couldn't attack. But players consider jumping over big bottomless pits and up castle walls because they can't fly and unless they can get from point A to point B they can't do anything useful in some situation.

[Luccan]

Anecdotally I don't think I've run into many situations where jumping over difficult terrain would be practical or possible. I just haven't seen many jumpable patches, probably due to a combination of suddenly ending up in them (from spell or abilities) meaning you normally have to use 20ft of movement to start the jump or it being placed in such a way I would have to back up to jump it or the area being too large to jump or it being more practical to keep hitting the bad guys over here

[Segev]

Anecdotally I don't think I've run into many situations where jumping over difficult terrain would be practical or possible. I just haven't seen many jumpable patches, probably due to a combination of suddenly ending up in them (from spell or abilities) meaning you normally have to use 20ft of movement to start the jump or it being placed in such a way I would have to back up to jump it or the area being too large to jump or it being more practical to keep hitting the bad guys over here

Technically, a standing jump might mean you jump half the distance, but you don't use more movement. So if you can jump over the terrain, you can "hop" across it. The big downside is that you have to make a DC 10 Athletics check not to fall prone when you land in difficult terrain.

[Mr Adventurer]

Technically, a standing jump might mean you jump half the distance, but you don't use more movement. So if you can jump over the terrain, you can "hop" across it. The big downside is that you have to make a DC 10 Athletics check not to fall prone when you land in difficult terrain.

Great observation.

[Tanarii]

Anecdotally I don't think I've run into many situations where jumping over difficult terrain would be practical or possible. I just haven't seen many jumpable patches, probably due to a combination of suddenly ending up in them (from spell or abilities) meaning you normally have to use 20ft of movement to start the jump or it being placed in such a way I would have to back up to jump it or the area being too large to jump or it being more practical to keep hitting the bad guys over hereWhich is why standing jumps are far more common than running ones.

[Segev]

Great observation.Thanks! Secondary point that may or may not be obvious: the difficult terrain may or may not have height to it. The PHB says the DM may require a DC 10 Athletics check to clear a "low" obstacle. (I think it says "waist-high.") I know that you can have difficult terrain that fills 3D space; see web. So this isn't a carte blanche past difficult terrain.


Which is why standing jumps are far more common than running ones.

Arguably, too, if you just landed from a jump that carried you at least ten feet, you had the ten feet of lead-up movement and could jump again with a running jump. If not, you could have a series of standing jumps to get the 10 feet of movement.

[Mr Adventurer]

Arguably, too, if you just landed from a jump that carried you at least ten feet, you had the ten feet of lead-up movement and could jump again with a running jump. If not, you could have a series of standing jumps to get the 10 feet of movement.

I think this latter point is evidenced in sporting triple jumps! Also the Hulk.