there's a new god in town. spread the word?

[King of Nowhere]

Scenario 1
A wizard has secluded himself in a tower to perform mighty experiments. After decades, he found out a ritual to ascend to godhood.
he performs the ritual and, for once, everything goes well. this guy is a new god!
but now what? he's a god, so he needs prayers to survive. but nobody is praying to him. nobody even knows he actually ascended. eventually, someone is going to discover it. but it won't translate to worship. the knowledge will likely remain contained among a few academics. even if it becomes widespread, why would jhonny the farmer forsake their old gods to worship this new guy?
I'm wondering, since this scenario may be relevant to my campaign, what the wizard god could do once he ascends to ensure that he won't die of starvation.

Scenario 2 (also relevant to my campaign)
this time, the wizard guy is not some secluded that nobody knows. this dude is a former supervillain. he already tried to ascend, by attempting to drain millions of souls to absorb their power. his attempt unleashed a world war. and he was stopped and eventually defeated, but he was spared. as a most brilliant researcher, he was granted life as long as he could make himself useful, kept prisoner under strong surveillance and forced to use his talents and knowledge for the benefits of all. and the wizard played along, because he's not an idiot. but then, a century later, he finds an opportunity. he may actually ascend, and this time it would most likely work - and it wouldn't even require evil means.
the difference with the first scenario is, this is not some secluded nobody knows. this guy is extremely well known. in fact, he's one of the most infamous people in history. nobody sane would ever want to worship him. and the whole world could be counted to systematically hunt down anyone worshipping him. because he's known as the most dangerous individual who ever lived. and if he ever made it to god, everybody could be counted to act swiftly and decisively to oppose him. though he's worked hard to improve his reputation, and indeed he's known as reasonable and pragmatic, this only accentuated his danger: this is the guy who can pretend to be good for centuries waiting for the perfect moment to strike, we absolutely cannot trust him, we must destroy him with all means necessary.
the other gods cannot act directly, but they can be counted on to declared crusades against his followers. because yes, he's feared that much.
what are his chances at surviving ascension? what could he do?
and considering that this wizard is already ageless and surviving on nothing but background magic (and the benevolence of those holding him prisoner, but they held him for a century, as long as he behaves he's pretty safe), would it really be a good idea to ascend? or would it be better to pass up the opportunity and wait until he's improved his position?

[Clistenes]

I think it largely depends on what he is allowed to do once he becomes a deity.

If he is allowed to travel around and do hero/adventurer/saviour stuff, he could gain a bunch of followers quite quickly and quite easily... just search the most unlucky, most oppressed, most discriminated group in the world, tell them you are a new young demigod, save them, destroy their enemies and bring them to some deserted tropical island or to a demiplane where you can use your epic level wizard magic and divine power to give them housing, food and protection.

You don't have to ask them to renounce their old gods. Just help them...

If you convince even a single one among them to worship you and become your priest, build a shrine and openly worship you, more will follow... why would they not join? Nobody is asking them to dump their old gods, and it is in their best interest to keep you happy...

That's pretty much the Wyvernspurr method: Save a group, become their god.

Alternatively, beat a few tribes of orcs, gnolls, goblins, trolls, ogres ...etc., and tell them "I AM YOUR GOD NOW!!! EVERYBODY WHO REFUSES TO WORSHIP ME WILL BE TORTURED TO DEATH, RAISED AS A GHOUL, WILL HAVE THEIR FOUR LIMBS CUT AND WILL BE KEPT HUNGRY FOREVER IN A PIT WITH A STEAK HANGING OVER HEADS!!!"

That is pretty much the Iuz method: WORSHIP ME OR PAY THE CONSEQUENCES!!!

If you can't act directly in the Prime Material Plane, on the other hand, it will be a tad more difficult. You will have to find a few overpowered proxies to do the job for you. You will have to find some ambitious powerful adventurers and bribe them to become your heralds, knowing that they can betray you if another deity offers them a better deal...

[Yora]

I think in either case, he should establish a cult. Either by walking the earth as an avatar, or do it before he becomes divine. Do it under a secret identity if needed. Just get a bunch of lunatic cultists and convince them that you're a god or the high priest of a god who will soon heap great rewards on all his worshippers. Should be easy enough to do for a powerful wizard. People do it all the time.
Then once you gor real divinity, send your cultists out to recruit more worshippers. It might help if your high priests are not as guilible and are in on the fact that the original cultists are just tools who can be discarded once you try to get a mainstream religion going.

[LibraryOgre]

It also somewhat depends on how you define your gods, and how you define worship.

So, let's say I'm the god of banana peels. Obviously, no one is going to worship the god of banana peels, that would be a silly god to worship. However, comedians are going to keep making JOKES about banana peels, invoking them and putting them into the public consciousness. Even without worship-by-my-name, that's an act of devotion towards me and my charges, the banana peels. It's an utter trickle, but I am worshiped.

Now, how do I survive on that? I tend to go with "Gods don't survive by worship, they are empowered by worship." Some of that power goes into immortality, but your second wizard has that, so he doesn't need to devote devotional energy to that. A young hero-god already has his life ahead of him, and can go out and get worshipers... your caged wizard god might not be able to go out, but he may be able to start sending out feelers. Finding those who will listen to his domain, whatever it is, as adopt him as their own.

This is part of where a divine patron for a new deity comes in handy. If your patron is a Greater Deity, they can siphon off some of the divine energy they gather, remain a Greater Deity, and boost you up. You then repay them when you're more established.

[Spiderswims]

New God Basics 101: So you become a god and now want worshipers. What do you do?

1.Godless Folks. This is the easy one. Find any people anywhere that have no god. Maybe their god was killed or lost or any such thing. Does not matter much. You just need to show up as the 'new god' just for them to 'save them'. As they have no god, they will often be quite open to having a god.

2.Folks on the edge. Every big religion will have people on "the edge". They "follow" the religion, mostly as it is the only one around, or it's popular or another reason other then faith. They are prime targets to be moved away to a new religion that more meets what they like and want in a religion.

3.Young folks. In a vague, general sense many young people will go for something "just because it is new".

4.Weak gods. Pick a weak god. Fight and kill them and absorb their worshipers. High risk here.

5.Fill a niche. Look at all the gods and find an opening. Something that no god is the god of will be attractive to followers.


The bad guy would have no problem getting worshipers....but sure they would be evil, crazy, insane, or such....but they would be worshipers.

[Xuc Xac]

Scenario 1
he's a god, so he needs prayers to survive. but nobody is praying to him. nobody even knows he actually ascended. eventually, someone is going to discover it. but it won't translate to worship. the knowledge will likely remain contained among a few academics. even if it becomes widespread, why would jhonny the farmer forsake their old gods to worship this new guy?

Why does he need prayers to survive? Is that a fact of the setting or just an unfounded assumption?

Why does his new godhood need to be "discovered" by anyone? Couldn't he just make a public announcement? It's not he has to stay in his wizard tower in the middle of nowhere. He could just go back to the nearest town and say "Hey! Check me out! I'm a god now!"

Why would anyone have to forsake their old gods to worship the new guy? If they already worship a pantheon of dozens of gods, what's the harm in adding one more? He could use his godly power to conjure up a big crate full of little statues of himself and hand them out to all the farmers: "Here. Put me on your home altar with the other gods. Let me know if you need anything. If your prayers are pleasing to mine ears and your problem is of interest to me, I might help you out."

[King of Nowhere]

Why does he need prayers to survive? Is that a fact of the setting or just an unfounded assumption?

Why does his new godhood need to be "discovered" by anyone? Couldn't he just make a public announcement? It's not he has to stay in his wizard tower in the middle of nowhere. He could just go back to the nearest town and say "Hey! Check me out! I'm a god now!"


yes, i explicitly stated that gods need worship to live.
also, gods cannot directly fight each other, and they cannot directly influence the world. they can see almost everything, but they have to focus their attention in a single place, so they are far from omniscent, and indeed they don't know what they have no reason to have been looking. they can empower clerics, they can order clerics, they have limited forms of communication with their clerics.
those are all the things i explicitly established. i never considered a god without clerics

indeed, opening this thread helped me realize i need to fill this blank spot before proceeding. if my campaign will deal with this kind of stuff, then i need to establish it a bit better

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Plan ahead. The new god should have a cult ready before he ascends. Maybe even use their devotion to the cause to power the ritual. Deification through worship, becoming a god because others think of you as such.

Becoming a god without having followers to worship you is like wishing to be a genie without coming up with a solution for the lamp thing, you're ignoring a rule of your universe and act surprised when it comes back to bite you.

[King of Nowhere]

Plan ahead. The new god should have a cult ready before he ascends. Maybe even use their devotion to the cause to power the ritual. Deification through worship, becoming a god because others think of you as such.

Becoming a god without having followers to worship you is like wishing to be a genie without coming up with a solution for the lamp thing, you're ignoring a rule of your universe and act surprised when it comes back to bite you.

yes, that's the most straightforward way to do it. sometimes, though, it's not the only one. there are other sources of power. the party is currently investigating a druid that managed to create a zombie epidemics among wild animals with the purpose of luring in clerics to turn them. he set up ways to collect the divine energy of the undead turning. he's been doing it for 60 years, and by now he's got a sizeable amount of divine energy stored. but nobody knows him, and indeed, being known would be a liability.

and sometimes, there are unexpected opportunities. the party wizard wants to try ascending, and the evil dude from scenario 2 may be around. and he may try to syphoon the power to himself, or he may decide it's not worth the risk

[Aliess]

Don't start out with direct worship. Make sure that enough seers know there's a new God in town and if you don't make the correct sacrifice every month then expect a plague of bugs, lightning, undead, bad luck, whatever it is you're into. Don't make it anything big, a bowl of rice on the hearth each full moon, a statue buried at a crossroads before you go on a journey or something like that
Utterly wreck a couple of villages that ignore you (or one or two that don't if you need to) just to make sure everyone knows you're serious and it won't be long before the average villager is leaving the appropriate appeasement (it's not worship honest, just a small appeasement to make them look elsewhere).
Give it a few months and it won't be long before somebody points out that they've been leaving their bowl of rice out every month, but old farmer Smith thinks you're not real, so maybe you could go drop some frogs on him?

[Tvtyrant]

Go to one of the older gods and pledge a few millennia of service if they will retcon you into their worship services.

That god reveals to their priests that they should make a new holiday for you and offer you prayers as the other god's protege, then you eventually break out on your own. The other god gets access to your portfolio in return.

[Ajustusdaniel]

yes, i explicitly stated that gods need worship to live.
also, gods cannot directly fight each other, and they cannot directly influence the world. they can see almost everything, but they have to focus their attention in a single place, so they are far from omniscent, and indeed they don't know what they have no reason to have been looking. they can empower clerics, they can order clerics, they have limited forms of communication with their clerics.
those are all the things i explicitly established. i never considered a god without clerics

indeed, opening this thread helped me realize i need to fill this blank spot before proceeding. if my campaign will deal with this kind of stuff, then i need to establish it a bit better

At a certain point you have to wonder- what's the upside to becoming a god? Apart from a really good telescope and the ability to empower clerics that he doesn't have, what has he gained to offset all these new restrictions?

[jayem]

At a certain point you have to wonder- what's the upside to becoming a god? Apart from a really good telescope and the ability to empower clerics that he doesn't have, what has he gained to offset all these new restrictions?

Given those restrictions, it seems that there ought to be some case for Franchising (an even more basic case of the protege).
I can be your presence in XYZ town, constantly paying attention there, constantly making sure they worship you. Collate their prayer requests into a nice lump sum, and live off the commission (because if I can't live, you'll have to do the work).

On a similar level but negotiating the other way, you could be open with your initial group that it's very much a mutual dependency. I can't do much, but it's all for you. You're more like their summoned creature until you can start calling the shots.

Either that or some kind of Ponzi/Leveraged bid, where you cash in all your resources to make a big show of how powerful you are and then hope you get their worship fast enough to deliver when they cash out, or suspect you are impotent.

[Clistenes]

At a certain point you have to wonder- what's the upside to becoming a god? Apart from a really good telescope and the ability to empower clerics that he doesn't have, what has he gained to offset all these new restrictions?

I have often wondered about it... Most uber-mages who became quasi-deities or full deities (mostly) on their own in the lore had 30 - 78 class levels, and were pretty much omnipotent even before ascension; they were virtually immortal, and could create their own demiplanes...

If deities aren't allowed to directly affect mortals, these uber-mages have little to fear from them (unless they piss them badly enough that they mobilize vast resources and hordes of worshipers led by their most powerful servants), and can in turn affect the world/multiverse more freely than gods...

And most important of all, their power, immortality and survival doesn't depend on maintaining mortals engaged in worship, and they don't have to work as cosmic janitors, taking care of the metaphysical plumbing of the multiverse...

Why would that immortal, near-omnipotent guy living in the magical floating castle above his island kingdom in this private demiplane feel the need to pursue divinity...?

EDIT: Going back to Gary Gygax's old lore, it seems like while guys like Heward, Keoghton and Murlynd reached Quasi-deity status (spellcasters almost as powerful as deities, basically) and stayed there, Kelanen went beyond that and became a Hero-deity (the lowest level of true divinity, a beginner Demigod) because he was SO focused and obsessed with swords and fencing that he could claim them as their portfolio...

Basically, Quasi-deities become true deities because they are monomaniacs that are consumed by their obsessions...

[Quertus]

Simply put, smart ascended beings have generally either already established a cult before ascending, or are allied with a greater power who will "spoon feed" the new baby godling.

Personally, I love the idea of this BBEG ascending, and the other gods calling him an idiot and beating him down trivially because of the trap of his new self-imposed limitations.

Personally, I tend to run the kind of Necromancer who would *create* his own species (singular or plural). It should be easy to get them a) to worship my Necromancer; b) as part of his ascended portfolio. So it's not the kind of problem I would usually need to worry about for my ascended PCs.

[Spore]

Going back to Gary Gygax's old lore, it seems like while guys like Heward, Keoghton and Murlynd reached Quasi-deity status (spellcasters almost as powerful as deities, basically) and stayed there.

This is important and could develop into a reason for being pushed into divinity. Maybe he tires of mortals, which ironically as a god he is bound more to than ever. Maybe some other deity wants his ass because of reasons, which ascending gives him much needed breathing room to plan and strategize while his minions, nor worshippers, are cannon fodder.

I can see a very cool thing where the villain ascends only for a short time to enact his plan. He then comes back, probably possessing his most potent cleric while stripping away the power of all his other worshippers, in a grandiose plan that angers all gods, so he kind of needs a master plan to survive that barring the party's intervention of course.

[Xuc Xac]

Why would that immortal, near-omnipotent guy living in the magical floating castle above his island kingdom in this private demiplane feel the need to pursue divinity...?

Wizard: Ha ha! I'm super powerful. I can do almost anything. I'm going to mess around with the world just because I can!

Gods: We would prefer if you didn't do that.

Wizard: You can't stop me. You're not allowed to interfere directly with mortals and I can beat down any of your followers that you send against me!

Gods: Stop it or else.

Wizard: Or what? I can alter reality at a whim! I can create my own planes! I cast Wish three times before breakfast! I can never die because I'm immortal!

Gods: So... You're messing up our stuff but you're no longer mortal?

Wizard: Uh. Wait! Let's talk about...

Gods: SMITE!

[PhoenixPhyre]

I'm of the opinion that if

a) gods need worship to survive
b) gods can only interact through their worshipers (and only indirectly at that)

then gathering a worship base has to be a prerequisite for the apotheosis ritual. Solves the problem neatly. Even better--they don't need to know exactly what or who they're worshiping. So deception is on the table for those people that no one few would knowingly worship.


I have something similar in my setting, although being an ascendant isn't exactly being a god (the true gods are chosen somewhat differently and their ranks are fixed). In order to ascend, you have to have a critical mass of energy income. There's a bootstrap ritual to catapult yourself past the barrier of death, or you can just die and transcend death at that point on the wings of your worship.

And it doesn't take tons--a few very dedicated people or a bunch of less-devout worshipers is enough to survive. But you're limited in two ways. First, you're effectively limited in your actions to places you have followers--if an ascendant tries to go personally somewhere he doesn't have followers, he's limited to whatever power he had before he ascended. And the local ascendants can bring their entire power to bear. So spreading the word is rather vital if you want a wide range of options. Second, there are bunches of other, more powerful ascendants who can and will kick your divine butt if you aren't careful about how you make waves. Third, as an ascendant (vis a vis a real god), you can't empower clerics. You can make pacts with Sworn (warlocks, basically), which is how ascendants get their priests. But the downside there is that the knowledge, once given, can't be taken back easily. You're basically teaching them tricks in exchange for service--better get paid in advance! A cleric can be depowered if he offends his god; a Sworn priest can't. Fourth, and most importantly, belief goes both ways. You gain power from worship (and can grant power to your worshipers, intervening on their behalf) but you are also shaped by their beliefs. So if they get the idea that you go around dressed in feather boas, well, better get used to that style of dress.

And as far as why people would want to ascend, there isn't cheap immortality in my setting. In fact, there isn't immortality or a real permanent afterlife except through ascension. The closest you get to "physical" immortality has all sorts of other tradeoffs that most find are not worth it.

[King of Nowhere]

At a certain point you have to wonder- what's the upside to becoming a god? Apart from a really good telescope and the ability to empower clerics that he doesn't have, what has he gained to offset all these new restrictions?

he's still far more powerful than any mortal wizard. actually, the "no direct interference" is not an actual limitation, simply something that the gods agreed they would not do, because it was escalating too much.
as for being a powerful wizard, it's overrated. ok, you're powerful and stuff, but you're not the only powerful person around. if you piss off too many people too much, you can and will be defeated.
but yes, it is indeed arguable whether a god is really better off than an immortal wizard with no particular problems.

[Clistenes]

Wizard: Ha ha! I'm super powerful. I can do almost anything. I'm going to mess around with the world just because I can!

What if he does NOT randomly mess with the world?

Also, I think a non-divine wizard would still count as mortal for the purpose of Divine Intervention even if he has learned to stop his aging...

[KineticDiplomat]

If there is the classic “treaty of the gods” that is limiting him, then, well, he’s not a signatory to that treaty is he?

The gods however are still presumably locked in god-detente, so anyone moving to stomp/recruit him on their own will possibly cause a war in heaven so to speak. He has some space to work with before the gods all sit down and negotiate amongst themselves what they’re going to do about this new godling.

In the interim, no doubt Cold War esque stuff is going on around him as the gods jockey for information and possibly influence, level threats, bribes, and so forth.

If he uses that time well, he can be in a strong position to actually join the pantheon.

[Tvtyrant]

If there is the classic “treaty of the gods” that is limiting him, then, well, he’s not a signatory to that treaty is he?

The gods however are still presumably locked in god-detente, so anyone moving to stomp/recruit him on their own will possibly cause a war in heaven so to speak. He has some space to work with before the gods all sit down and negotiate amongst themselves what they’re going to do about this new godling.

In the interim, no doubt Cold War esque stuff is going on around him as the gods jockey for information and possibly influence, level threats, bribes, and so forth.

If he uses that time well, he can be in a strong position to actually join the pantheon.

Or the opposite and treaty protections apply to everyone but them, and they get wiped out instantly or sign on.

[Ajustusdaniel]

he's still far more powerful than any mortal wizard. actually, the "no direct interference" is not an actual limitation, simply something that the gods agreed they would not do, because it was escalating too much.
as for being a powerful wizard, it's overrated. ok, you're powerful and stuff, but you're not the only powerful person around. if you piss off too many people too much, you can and will be defeated.
but yes, it is indeed arguable whether a god is really better off than an immortal wizard with no particular problems.

Well, I think it comes down to this. If he has powers beyond any mortal, he uses those powers to accumulate worshippers. If he cannot use their powers (whether by meta-divine law or for fear of angering bigger meaner gods), he might as well not have them, which returns us to, he probably doesn't bother ascending.

That being said, maybe he didn't realize the full deal, or maybe his ambition outstripped his long term planning ability. I'd take a look at Neil Gaiman's American Gods and Terry Pratchett's Small Gods for examples of worship dependent deities trying to function without a consistent group of true believers.

[Democratus]

Why would anyone worship gods if they couldn't affect the world?

Seems like a system designed to make all gods die off.

[KineticDiplomat]

Well, I assume that “treaties of the gods”, much like real treaties, are less about the legalese and more about balance of power/trade/whatever. You also assume that all the parties involved think that what they’re getting out of the treaty is better than the results of just trying to do what they want - in this case because no one wants to kill a mortal and start a multi-planar war whose outcome is wildly uncertain and might end up being a broken back war anyhow.

If you assume that the gods don’t intervene because everyone wants to avoid The Big One, then the real point is at what line will someone actually step up?

If a new demigod arrives on scene and one side or the other makes a play to recruit/kill him outright, what’s the likely outcome? How far into the pesky third world of mortals are the super power gods willing to let each other go when push comes to shove - for real, not what’s written in an inherently flexible treaty? How far can they go without exposing too much and possibly taking a sucker punch out in the big boy leagues?

[King of Nowhere]

Why would anyone worship gods if they couldn't affect the world?

Seems like a system designed to make all gods die off.

they can influence in minor ways, but most importantly, they can gift spellcasting to clerics. that alone is more influence than any mortal can get on his own
and there is also the chance to get into a specific afterlife.


Well, I assume that “treaties of the gods”, much like real treaties, are less about the legalese and more about balance of power/trade/whatever. You also assume that all the parties involved think that what they’re getting out of the treaty is better than the results of just trying to do what they want - in this case because no one wants to kill a mortal and start a multi-planar war whose outcome is wildly uncertain and might end up being a broken back war anyhow.

If you assume that the gods don’t intervene because everyone wants to avoid The Big One, then the real point is at what line will someone actually step up?

If a new demigod arrives on scene and one side or the other makes a play to recruit/kill him outright, what’s the likely outcome? How far into the pesky third world of mortals are the super power gods willing to let each other go when push comes to shove - for real, not what’s written in an inherently flexible treaty? How far can they go without exposing too much and possibly taking a sucker punch out in the big boy leagues?

all those are very good questions.

[FrogInATopHat]

they can influence in minor ways, but most importantly, they can gift spellcasting to clerics. that alone is more influence than any mortal can get on his own

That seems peachy-keen for clerics and less of a deal for pretty much any other worshiper in the multiverse.

[LibraryOgre]

That seems peachy-keen for clerics and less of a deal for pretty much any other worshiper in the multiverse.

To an extent, it is "The God provides power to his clerics, and his clerics provide access to the god's power." If you want access to Thor's power, you either become a cleric, or you go to one of Thor's authorized magical outlets (i.e. a cleric). Or, if you're in 3e, you can go to a black-market cleric (i.e. Ur-Priest), and some games will let you go to a wholesaler (i.e. generic cleric).

For a young god, though, looking for worshipers (or an old god, desperate to build their base)? Be generous with your first followers. Bob the Sheepherder who stumbles across your shrine? You give him what magic you can, and tell him that he gets to keep it if he tells people about you. You may later find better clerics and evangelists than Bob, but you make sure you always keep Bob handy to show your loyalty.

To an extent, I could see 5e Warlocks being a good example of those early priests. First, they have good Charismas, meaning they're great evangelists. Then, they've got some great, but limited, powers, and are more reliant on a direct relationship (i.e. pact) with their patron. Now I kinda want to play one. Maybe I should work up some rules for them in Hackmaster, my game of choice.

[King of Nowhere]

That seems peachy-keen for clerics and less of a deal for pretty much any other worshiper in the multiverse.

this is a comfortable way to explain why the gods don't intervene and do stuff on their own all the time. I already took some pain to justify why my world has a healty population of high level people who are, mostly, locked into a sort of cold war. then i wrote the gods out of the picture in the same way. this way, i can give a low or mid level party some meaningful quest without wondering too much on "why don't someone more competent handle this?", while at the same time i will still have meaningful challenges around for when that group will have become high level and join the big league. and at that point, i don't want the gods to randomly intervene and steal the scene, hence i must lock them out of action in some way.

[LibraryOgre]

To an extent, I could see 5e Warlocks being a good example of those early priests. First, they have good Charismas, meaning they're great evangelists. Then, they've got some great, but limited, powers, and are more reliant on a direct relationship (i.e. pact) with their patron. Now I kinda want to play one. Maybe I should work up some rules for them in Hackmaster, my game of choice.

Hey, look what happened. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?623239-HM-Evangelist-Class&p=24826732)

[aglondier]

I think the major flaw in scenario 1 is that there is no provision for divine portfolio. Ascending to godhood should require becomming the god of something, which automatically gives a connection to the mortal world and to a worship base...

[JusticeZero]

How do other gods get established?

In my current game, all the gods get their power from horrible acts on a large scale, "The nightmares of the dead". Their first worshippers come from:

1) People who fear them and want to appease the horror
2) People who fear the victims of the horror, who support the God.

For instance, the God of Pain and Surgery was a combat doctor who used brutal vivisection for research on prisoners of war during a losing war against another country. The vivisection and the stories they let the enemy learn about them empowered them, then they turned their new power on the enemy. Now they give their medical knowledge to their people and their followers, and their culture adopted the elements of their flavor, such as scarification and a pain/blood focus.

The Dragon God of Greed was a wealthy merchant who had a monopoly over the island. He extorted the people of the island until they were secretly farming to avoid having to buy food, then lit a grass fire, burning the crops and condemning people to starvation or crushing wage slavery. The dying cursed him, and he became a dragon bound to his horde, with power of flames.
Nowadays, there is a permanent fire atop the island where his lair is. He no longer can engage in his merchant trade, bound in place as he is. But he is feared and worshipped, and he has to be helpful to his island lest he be starved of worship. Each generation fears him less and reveres him more.

[Endarire]

From what I can tell, being a deity under your terms is kinda like being a business: You're expected to advertise to draw favorable attention and sustain and grow your power/influence base.

[King of Nowhere]

How do other gods get established?

In my current game, all the gods get their power from horrible acts on a large scale, "The nightmares of the dead". Their first worshippers come from:

1) People who fear them and want to appease the horror
2) People who fear the victims of the horror, who support the God.

For instance, the God of Pain and Surgery was a combat doctor who used brutal vivisection for research on prisoners of war during a losing war against another country. The vivisection and the stories they let the enemy learn about them empowered them, then they turned their new power on the enemy. Now they give their medical knowledge to their people and their followers, and their culture adopted the elements of their flavor, such as scarification and a pain/blood focus.

The Dragon God of Greed was a wealthy merchant who had a monopoly over the island. He extorted the people of the island until they were secretly farming to avoid having to buy food, then lit a grass fire, burning the crops and condemning people to starvation or crushing wage slavery. The dying cursed him, and he became a dragon bound to his horde, with power of flames.
Nowadays, there is a permanent fire atop the island where his lair is. He no longer can engage in his merchant trade, bound in place as he is. But he is feared and worshipped, and he has to be helpful to his island lest he be starved of worship. Each generation fears him less and reveres him more.

are there any good gods in your setting?