Assuming the order finds the gate. What next?

[WolvesbaneIII]

What is their long term/short term plans?

defend it from xykon and...

Its like in the princess bride where the one guy was in the revenge business for so long he didn't know what to do after that, not right away any way.

Without RC, they can't seal it.

With RC, that brings the baggage of TE being there too. not that RC would comply any way.

As to their plans, what are your thoughts on the "what if" scenario of finding the gate first? What do they do now?

[Roland Itiative]

Their plan is to have the area surrounding the Gate be the arena for their final climactic battle with Team Evil. Getting there first gives them the home turf advantage, as they will have time to survey the area and prepare it for combat their way, without giving Xykon and friends the opportunity to do the same.

Right now, there is no long-term plan from the Order, because there simply is no long-term if they fail, the gods will just destroy the world. If they succeed in stopping Team Evil, then they can delay the destruction of the world for long enough to actually start planning a more permanent solution, but at this point it all hinges on protecting this Gate from any and all immediate threats at all costs.

[Saint-Just]

When they were racing for the previous Gate Durkon intended to call a few Celestials with a Planar Ally to guard the Gate. He still can call them for 13 days even after losing levels. Not sure if he has the requisite XP, and also not sure whether it would be dramatically appropriate, but if we were talking about a game - not the worst plan; he is extremely unlikely to level up soon enough and they are already close to the finish line.

[Precure]

Blackmail the world powers for money and such?

[Metastachydium]

Their plan is to have the area surrounding the Gate be the arena for their final climactic battle with Team Evil.

I don't think any plan that includes fighting an enemy who spams Meteor Swarms around the one thing that keeps the world in one piece and the gods from destroying said world is a very good plan, especially if the aforementioned thing can be to expected to explode spectacularly from a small scratch.
In other words, I don't think the Order really intends to do that.

[understatement]

The Order's goal was never to defend Serini's gate. Their goal is to defeat Team Evil and prevent them from being a large-enough threat that the gods would take action.

[dancrilis]

Best option might be to commune to Thor to ask him for a similiar ritual to the one that Redcloak has so that Durkon and Vaarsuvius can give control to Thor and take the prize off the board for Team Evil.

Then they can focus on dealing with Team Evil in relative security and then negotiate with Redcloak from a position of strenght.

This of course requires:
1. Trusting Thor
2. That Thor can come up with a similiar ritual as The Dark One concocted.

[Ghosty]

Best option might be to commune to Thor to ask him for a similiar ritual to the one that Redcloak has so that Durkon and Vaarsuvius can give control to Thor and take the prize off the board for Team Evil.

Then they can focus on dealing with Team Evil in relative security and then negotiate with Redcloak from a position of strenght.

This of course requires:
1. Trusting Thor
2. That Thor can come up with a similiar ritual as The Dark One concocted.

I like this, and as you note, the Ritual is what's the problem here for the Gods. Not Team Evil in and of itself. (Though they can certainly blast the last Gate into oblivion via collateral damage, and that would obviously be bad.)

Accordingly, we know the Divine half of the Ritual hasn't been written down, but is psychically implanted within the mind of the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle. Per RedCloak, though maybe he was lying. My question is, if the Crimson Mantle goes away---because V Disjoins it, let's say---does RedCloak still remember all of the elements to the Divine half? I mean, before old age takes him like the guy who drank from the wrong cup in "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade?"

EDIT: Since we need a casted 9th level spell from a novel quiddity, the Order can't do anything that would prevent RedCloak from being able, eventually, to cast such spells in the interest of strengthening the Gates. Killing him through accelerated old age seems to get in the way of that...

And there's certainly no other extant member of a novel quiddity, that can cast 9th level spells, right? Like Wish?

[locksmith of lo]

my guess is that they are going to meet serini and maybe the gate, get a bunch of exposition and go off on a side quest, for some magical macguffin, and then try to stop TE from reaching the gate, because their brute force approach finally pays off, for the final confrontation?

there is still the IFFC (IIFC?) that has plans unfolding too. :smalleek:

[Ionathus]

Best option might be to commune to Thor to ask him for a similiar ritual to the one that Redcloak has so that Durkon and Vaarsuvius can give control to Thor and take the prize off the board for Team Evil.

Then they can focus on dealing with Team Evil in relative security and then negotiate with Redcloak from a position of strenght.

This of course requires:
1. Trusting Thor
2. That Thor can come up with a similiar ritual as The Dark One concocted.

Several spanners in the works here:
1. At some point, one of the characters mentioned the ritual taking at least a week, maybe longer. Time the Order certainly doesn't have.
2. If they're trying to get The Dark One's cooperation, stealing the Magical Nuke he was after and giving themselves control over it is likely to just drive him even more wild.
3. Most of the other gods would not be happy with Thor doing the same Bad Thing TDO wanted to do. Could even cause a schism in one or more pantheons.
4. If The Order took control of the Gate, immediately after criticizing Redcloak for trying to do the same, there's a 0% chance he'd ever consider working with them, even if defeated/captured.


EDIT: And there's certainly no other extant member of a novel quiddity, that can cast 9th level spells, right?

Careful, that's how you summon the rampant Banjo-Will-Become-Extremely-Important and/or Jirix-Is-Our-Only-Hope wild mass speculation.

[KorvinStarmast]

Blackmail the world powers for money and such? Is that you, Haley Starshine? :smallcool:

[Ghosty]

...Careful, that's how you summon the rampant Banjo-Will-Become-Extremely-Important and/or Jirix-Is-Our-Only-Hope wild mass speculation.

Those are doors I don't want to open, yeah. I was referring to the MITD being the last surviving member of the 'Greek' pantheon that got 'et by the Snarl. Though not a full Deity (but who knows?), he was an Outsider member of their group. We know that non-God Outsiders get mindwiped between different times the world gets remade. Perhaps he's a refugee from that time? And Wish explains the Escape! scene so well.

It allows an out if RedCloak rides this Greek tragic hero archetype into a smouldering ruin, and it turns out The Dark One is indeed a giant butthead who has been lying to RC all along, and has no intention of working with anyone.

[Metastachydium]

Those are doors I don't want to open, yeah. I was referring to the MITD being the last surviving member of the 'Greek' pantheon that got 'et by the Snarl. Though not a full Deity (but who knows?), he was an Outsider member of their group. We know that non-God Outsiders get mindwiped between different times the world gets remade. Perhaps he's a refugee from that time? And Wish explains the Escape! scene so well.

It allows an out if RedCloak rides this Greek tragic hero archetype into a smouldering ruin, and it turns out The Dark One is indeed a giant butthead who has been lying to RC all along, and has no intention of working with anyone.

That's also a door you shouldn't want to open. Mostly because Redcloak turning out to have been Redherring all along would feel wrong for quite a number of reasons, but also due to the little fact that this is certainly not the case: Redcloak knows what the Monster is, and he would probably make a greater fuss about him being a literal god.

[Ghosty]

That's also a door you shouldn't want to open. Mostly because Redcloak turning out to have been Redherring all along would feel wrong for quite a number of reasons, but also due to the little fact that this is certainly not the case: Redcloak knows what the Monster is, and he would probably make a greater fuss about him being a literal god.

How about the kid of an Elder Titan? (Which would tie into the whole feeding him babies gag, earlier in his arc.) RC knows what he is (or thinks he's really sure about it). I don't know that RC's ever shared that with Xykon though, although Xykon thinks the MITD is really powerful. The Stereotypical Big Game Hunters think he's unusual, but not unique, IIRC. Xykon doesn't think the MITD is a Deity, even a minor one, or he wouldn't have tried that mind-control compulsion on the MITD.

But does the MITD need to be a Deity to be of that pantheon's quiddity? Thinking of someone like Ganymede or Hercules; not Gods, but Demigods or hangers-on. Though holy crap, the list of Greek monsters/kids of one or another of the Titans, is not a short one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greek_mythological_creatures

Anyway, being an Outsider but not a Deity might be why the Snarl didn't smoke him instantly when it ravaged through that pantheon. Hypothetically.

If he did cast in Green, we'd never know it from that magical darkness he dwells within.

Getting away from all that, if there isn't a representative of another quiddity around that can cast 9s, RedCloak absolutely has to survive. Or The Dark One has to agree to help.

[KorvinStarmast]

RedCloak absolutely has to survive.
Or The Dark One has to agree to help.
This, or, MiTD needs to be a baby titan. :smallbiggrin: (Something like an Empyrean?)

[Ghosty]

This, or, MiTD needs to be a baby titan. :smallbiggrin: (Something like an Empyrean?)

Ya know, I had no idea what an Empyrean was. (Besides an HR company...) Googling around for it led me to the Pathfinder wiki, wherein I found this: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/feral-titan-lord/

Specifically, this part of the description:
A feral titan lord once walked the dimensions with other titans, but something in his planar travels went awry and sent the colossal creature plummeting down. Whatever anomaly stranded him in the disputed territories also deprived him of his memories and intellect, and he has since wandered the uncontrolled realms, living off the land and reduced to little more than an animal. There are rumors that a feral titan lord sometimes hides among the populace, masquerading as a simpleton laborer for reasons unknown

Sound a bit like anyone we know? (Minus the whole 'slaying-the-village-after-an-errant-insult' thing.)

[KorvinStarmast]

Ya know, I had no idea what an Empyrean was. (Besides an HR company...) Googling around for it led me to the Pathfinder wiki, wherein I found this: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/feral-titan-lord/

Specifically, this part of the description:

Sound a bit like anyone we know? (Minus the whole 'slaying-the-village-after-an-errant-insult' thing.) Yeah, but PF isn't 3.x, it's just related to it. We do have empyrean's in 5e, but this strip has nothing to do with 5e.

Caveat: I am out of line with my guess there, since we have entire threads (curated by Grey Wolf) regarding "What is the MiTD?" so let's not derail this one since all the detail one needs, and more (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?615971-MitD-XV-The-Other-Dark-One), exist there.

[Ghosty]

Yeah, but PF isn't 3.x, it's just related to it. We do have empyrean's in 5e, but this strip has nothing to do with 5e.

Caveat: I am out of line with my guess there, since we have entire threads (curated by Grey Wolf) regarding "What is the MiTD?" so let's not derail this one since all the detail one needs, and more (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?615971-MitD-XV-The-Other-Dark-One), exist there.

Oh, I agree; the last several posts really belong in the iterations of Guess the MITD. I simply thought the flavor text for this Titan entry was surprisingly suitable for what we know about the MITD.

I also can't think of another candidate for another quiddity. Which means RC must survive or the Dark One must come down and cast. That changes everything about fighting Team Evil. RC has to be able to use 9th level spells, even if that means the deaths of the Order of The Stick. Everything is secondary to ensuring the preservation of that quiddity.

Finding a refugee from the Greek pantheon, I thought, might give us some wiggle room, narratively.

[facw]

does RedCloak still remember all of the elements to the Divine half? I mean, before old age takes him like the guy who drank from the wrong cup in "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade?"

We've seen Redcloak take off the Crimson Mantle (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html) before and he didn't seem to forget about what he was doing, nor did he age rapidly. Of course possibly destroying it would have a more direct impact, but it seems like our first guess would be that he would retain what he knows and revert to aging at a normal rate.

In any event, finding the gate would give them an opportunity to prepare for battle on their own terms, which would be somewhat helpful. It also would potentially give them a chance to study the gate and the rift in a way they haven't been able to, which is important because even if they were to defeat Xykon, that would be at best a temporary fix to the problem of the Snarl. Thor has offered a possible permanent solution, but it's clear that even the gods don't have a full understanding of what is going on with the snarl.

[understatement]

Oh, I agree; the last several posts really belong in the iterations of Guess the MITD. I simply thought the flavor text for this Titan entry was surprisingly suitable for what we know about the MITD.

I also can't think of another candidate for another quiddity. Which means RC must survive or the Dark One must come down and cast. That changes everything about fighting Team Evil. RC has to be able to use 9th level spells, even if that means the deaths of the Order of The Stick. Everything is secondary to ensuring the preservation of that quiddity.

Finding a refugee from the Greek pantheon, I thought, might give us some wiggle room, narratively.

I think the point of showing how dead the Greco Pantheon were was to show how much hinged on the Dark One -- specifically, a new antagonistic god that doesn't fit in with any of the previous cosmic mold.

Also, the Order could get away with killing Redcloak and resurrecting him when it's less dangerous (sure, he'll lose a level, but he's likely above lvl 17 by now). This would also allow a chance for Redcloak to talk to his god.

[skim172]

I actually was thinking about that earlier - surely, if the Order's intent is to prevent the Gate from being used, wouldn't they be better off not discovering its location and all the secrets of Kraagor's Dungeon? Sure, if they find it, they can prepare a defense, but then they also reveal the location in the scenario that they lose. That the Gate's location is unknown has been so far its best defense.

So perhaps the Order's plan isn't to find the Gate - they haven't said that explicitly. Their mission is simply to kill Xykon and/or Redcloak. But if that's the case, then they're really not equipped to do that. Their side consists of a 6-person team that can't really take Xykon and Redcloak in a straight fight - and there are very few scenarios in which the odds would be shifted in their favor. The army of bugbear minions alone would probably be too much for them to handle.

Setting aside the standard fantasy trope that small teams of underdogs with low odds and nothing to lose are the most powerful martial power imaginable - they really are not the proper force to do this job. Considering what's at stake, it's bizarre that no one else is fussed enough to swing by to try to intervene. Those dwarves might've sent along a squad or two as backup. The Azurites might've spared more than two scouts. At the very least, I hope those sky pirates are still hanging nearby to provide moral support. We're talking the end of the world here, with possibly the end of all things - surely there's more urgency required?

If the Order is here to assassinate Xykon - then strategically, this is a very flawed plan. But ... if the Order's intent was to run the dungeon and discover the Gate, then sending a small group of adventurers would be the right plan.


Fantasy tropes say that of course, it's always going to be a small brave band of heroes that brings events to their exciting climax, and of course the Order is going to explore the dungeon and find the Gate - by intent or accident - because otherwise, this would not be an exciting fantasy story.


But if this was the real world ... well, imagine that Cthulhu suddenly awakens, arises, and occupies the city of Montreal, where he and his horde of humanoid giant squids construct a doomsday artifact by which they hope to disassemble the fabric of space-time. And the only people headed towards Montreal at this moment are UFC champion Khabib Nurmagomedov and a team composed of a Olympic shooter, a quantum physicist, a doctor, an indie folk singer, and a psychopath serial killer - all of whom have outsized personalities, hilarious badinage, and moving backstories. The rest of the world - sits back and watches.

Just feels like we could be more active somehow.

[Metastachydium]

But if this was the real world ... well, imagine that Cthulhu suddenly awakens, arises, and occupies the city of Montreal, where he and his horde of humanoid giant squids construct a doomsday artifact by which they hope to disassemble the fabric of space-time. And the only people headed towards Montreal at this moment are UFC champion Khabib Nurmagomedov and a team composed of a Olympic shooter, a quantum physicist, a doctor, an indie folk singer, and a psychopath serial killer - all of whom have outsized personalities, hilarious badinage, and moving backstories.

You never disappoint, skim.

[Hopeless]

What if Serini is behind ALL of this?

She lost faith in her group for some reason giving X her diary so he could destroy everything her party accomplished so she could finally feel like she could rest and get back at them for believing they abandoned her?

What if the reason their group failed is not because they sealed the gate, but because they didn't travel to the Snarl's world to deal with it properly?

I mean what's more epic than the final arc being going up against a god killing eldritch abomination within the remains of the world they all originated from if you take the gods version of events as accurate?

[Goblin_Priest]

IF they find they gate, which they might not, I would expect it either leads to a confrontation with Team Evil, which given what Elan just said seems unlikely, or it serves to present them with new unpredictable information. Perhaps more lore on to what the gates actually are, and what's actually in the rifts.

[Metastachydium]

What if Serini is behind ALL of this?

She lost faith in her group for some reason giving X her diary so he could destroy everything her party accomplished so she could finally feel like she could rest and get back at them for believing they abandoned her?

What if the reason their group failed is not because they sealed the gate, but because they didn't travel to the Snarl's world to deal with it properly?

I mean what's more epic than the final arc being going up against a god killing eldritch abomination within the remains of the world they all originated from if you take the gods version of events as accurate?

While I could never quite understand how Serini could be so stupid as to write down the coordinates of all the Gates in one place and then just lose the book, there's the thing that the defenses of her Gate worked just fine thus far, and thereby it would seem she did not want to actively sabotage her own efforts, after all.

[Arcane_Secrets]

I like this, and as you note, the Ritual is what's the problem here for the Gods. Not Team Evil in and of itself. (Though they can certainly blast the last Gate into oblivion via collateral damage, and that would obviously be bad.)

Accordingly, we know the Divine half of the Ritual hasn't been written down, but is psychically implanted within the mind of the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle. Per RedCloak, though maybe he was lying. My question is, if the Crimson Mantle goes away---because V Disjoins it, let's say---does RedCloak still remember all of the elements to the Divine half? I mean, before old age takes him like the guy who drank from the wrong cup in "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade?"

EDIT: Since we need a casted 9th level spell from a novel quiddity, the Order can't do anything that would prevent RedCloak from being able, eventually, to cast such spells in the interest of strengthening the Gates. Killing him through accelerated old age seems to get in the way of that...

And there's certainly no other extant member of a novel quiddity, that can cast 9th level spells, right? Like Wish?

So does the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle have to be goblinoid? What if they managed to steal it from Redcloak and used it as a focus so Durkon could talk to the Dark One directly, tell him what's happening, and then call it off?

[understatement]

So does the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle have to be goblinoid?

The Dark One pretty much only let goblins worship him, so yes.


What if they managed to steal it from Redcloak and used it as a focus so Durkon could talk to the Dark One directly, tell him what's happening, and then call it off?

The Mantle isn't a two-way telephone. Redcloak says it himself that he's never directly talked with his god; and unless the Dark One has the same intelligence as Elan, he will notice an enemy dwarf trying to scam out a plan he's worked on for decades.

[Metastachydium]

The Dark One pretty much only let goblins worship him, so yes.



The Mantle isn't a two-way telephone. Redcloak says it himself that he's never directly talked with his god; and unless the Dark One has the same intelligence as Elan, he will notice an enemy dwarf trying to scam out a plan he's worked on for decades.

Pretty much. I can't quite see how Durkon (or anyone else form the Order) could concievably become a priest of the Dark One (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0829.html).

[understatement]

Pretty much. I can't quite see how Durkon (or anyone else form the Order) could concievably become a priest of the Dark One (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0829.html).

Easy.


1) First, it must be acknowledged that the Dark One is Lawful Evil, and clerics can only be one step of their god's alignment. Durkon is LG (Thor likely being NG), so he has to shift down to Lawful Neutral, minimum.
2) But of course, it's pretty hard to switch alignment in the span of a few days. Thus, Durkon can take 2 paths:

a) Quickly commit some Evil acts Miko-style. Never mind that it would be horribly out of character - just have him kick Mr. Scruffy a couple of times.

b) Find a Helm of Opposite Alignment. Again, considering the Order only has a few days and no means of fast transport (now that the Mechane has likely departed), this has a high chance of succeeding.

3) Once Durkon is comfortably settled as Lawful Neutral, he can now pop over to Redcloak and ask nicely for the Mantle. Again, never mind that the Order has no clue how the Cloak works or its power. Also, this requires Durkon to defeat Redcloak, which despite a minimum of four levels gap is easily achievable and effortless.

4) Now, Durkon has to switch gods. Imean, a major part of the last book was him reaffirming his faith in Thor, but Thor understands emergencies. Durkon, who hasn't even heard of the Dark One until a few days ago, will now believably switch an entire religion to a god whose people he has a racial bonus against.

5) The Dark One, who apparently has the observational skills of an ooze, won't notice Durkon performing this well-timed and intelligent switch. Something's off about his High Priest, as in someone completely different from a guy who has worn the cloak for over 30 years. No biggie.

6) Durkon decides to tell the Dark One to call it off. When asked "or else what?" Durkon has nothing to respond with because he has zero leverage.

Wait...

[Metastachydium]

Easy.


1) First, it must be acknowledged that the Dark One is Lawful Evil, and clerics can only be one step of their god's alignment. Durkon is LG (Thor likely being NG), so he has to shift down to Lawful Neutral, minimum.
2) But of course, it's pretty hard to switch alignment in the span of a few days. Thus, Durkon can take 2 paths:

a) Quickly commit some Evil acts Miko-style. Never mind that it would be horribly out of character - just have him kick Mr. Scruffy a couple of times.

b) Find a Helm of Opposite Alignment. Again, considering the Order only has a few days and no means of fast transport (now that the Mechane has likely departed), this has a high chance of succeeding.

3) Once Durkon is comfortably settled as Lawful Neutral, he can now pop over to Redcloak and ask nicely for the Mantle. Again, never mind that the Order has no clue how the Cloak works or its power. Also, this requires Durkon to defeat Redcloak, which despite a minimum of four levels gap is easily achievable and effortless.

4) Now, Durkon has to switch gods. Imean, a major part of the last book was him reaffirming his faith in Thor, but Thor understands emergencies. Durkon, who hasn't even heard of the Dark One until a few days ago, will now believably switch an entire religion to a god whose people he has a racial bonus against.

5) The Dark One, who apparently has the observational skills of an ooze, won't notice Durkon performing this well-timed and intelligent switch. Something's off about his High Priest, as in someone completely different from a guy who has worn the cloak for over 30 years. No biggie.

6) Durkon decides to tell the Dark One to call it off. When asked "or else what?" Durkon has nothing to respond with because he has zero leverage.

Wait...



Feh. You make it look hard, when it really isn't. As we know, whoever vanquishes a Supreme Leader will immediately become the new Supreme Leader, and as such, an honorary hobgoblin. Now, all Durkon has to do is torture Redcloak to death while he sleeps and then desecrate his corpse or whatever, to become non-Good. And then all he needs to do is don the Mantle and Big Purple will certainly recognize this new, somewhat short and hairy hobgoblin as his new high priest, because this short and hairy hobgoblin will be a hobgoblin and all. And then suddenly everything will be all sunshine and happiness, because it will turn out Big Purple was a really nice guy all along, and Redcloak was a bad influence on him.

[Hopeless]

What if Redcloak's niece turns up?

Assuming she knows what Redcloak did to her father and her lonely pilgrimage results in her becoming a cleric and discovers Redcloak isn't a follower of the Dark One, retains his powers only because he has the mantle?

Its a bit late for a reveal of thats sort, but what if the paladins wasn't the only ones watching the area and they were picked up too?

[Schroeswald]

I do expect Redcloak’s niece to show up eventually and my current theory is that she is trying to avenge her father by killing Redcloak

[Arcane_Secrets]

Feh. You make it look hard, when it really isn't. As we know, whoever vanquishes a Supreme Leader will immediately become the new Supreme Leader, and as such, an honorary hobgoblin. Now, all Durkon has to do is torture Redcloak to death while he sleeps and then desecrate his corpse or whatever, to become non-Good. And then all he needs to do is don the Mantle and Big Purple will certainly recognize this new, somewhat short and hairy hobgoblin as his new high priest, because this short and hairy hobgoblin will be a hobgoblin and all. And then suddenly everything will be all sunshine and happiness, because it will turn out Big Purple was a really nice guy all along, and Redcloak was a bad influence on him.

These answers are both so implausible for Durkon doing any of this or the Dark One buying it that congratulations-you've really talked me out of thinking that him ever using the Crimson Mantle could ever work even if he could get it.

[KorvinStarmast]

Assuming she knows what Redcloak did to her father and her lonely pilgrimage results in her becoming a cleric and discovers Redcloak isn't a follower of the Dark One, retains his powers only because he has the mantle? Uh, explain to me again the part about Redcloak not being a follower of TDO? Not seeing how you arrived there.

[skim172]

Feh. You make it look hard, when it really isn't. As we know, whoever vanquishes a Supreme Leader will immediately become the new Supreme Leader, and as such, an honorary hobgoblin. Now, all Durkon has to do is torture Redcloak to death while he sleeps and then desecrate his corpse or whatever, to become non-Good. And then all he needs to do is don the Mantle and Big Purple will certainly recognize this new, somewhat short and hairy hobgoblin as his new high priest, because this short and hairy hobgoblin will be a hobgoblin and all. And then suddenly everything will be all sunshine and happiness, because it will turn out Big Purple was a really nice guy all along, and Redcloak was a bad influence on him.

Hmm. That leads to a question: Does Redcloak ever take off his red cloak? Or is it like something he's got to keep on at all times? In which case, how does he get it laundered? How can he take a shower? Does Redcloak just smell really awful all the time? Does that cloak have a century's worth of mud, blood, crud, and general filth encrusted upon it?

If he does take it off - then what if someone swipes it and puts it on while Redcloak's away? Does that dude then become the Dark One's high priest, on virtue of wearing the cloak? In which case, is the Dark One's church a cloak-ocracy? And is it a fair system of governance?

Could Durkon just pose as a dry cleaner, swing by to pick up the mantle, put it on, and then have a face-to-face convo with the Dark One?

More on the Crimson Mantle - wouldn't the crimson start to fade after a while? We know it can get tattered and torn, so the thread is not invulnerable. So does the dye fade, too? Does Redcloak have to regularly re-dye the cloth to maintain the color? What does he do when the stitches start to go and the hem starts to fray? Does he have to get it patched and restored? Does it lose any of its holiness when he does so?

If, over time, the Crimson Mantle is re-patched and restored, with its threads and fabric having to be replaced bit by bit, until eventually none of the original materials remain - then can it still be said the same Crimson Mantle? Is its power imbued within the physical matter itself - or is it the essential idea of the Mantle that holds the power?

Does Redcloak ever wrap himself in it while in the nude, wearing nothing but the cloak? If so, is that sacrilege?

[Reboot]

b) Find a Helm of Opposite Alignment.

Which would make Durkon CE, not LN, and so just as far from TDO as he was already.


Hmm. That leads to a question: Does Redcloak ever take off his red cloak? Or is it like something he's got to keep on at all times?

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html

[skim172]

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html

Excellent.

So now the Order just needs to set up a reputable dry cleaning franchise.

[WolvesbaneIII]

Excellent.

So now the Order just needs to set up a reputable dry cleaning franchise.

:roy: Ahoy hoy! Good day sir! I can see you are a goblin of good taste and prestiege! Might I offer you our services? we do high quality dry cleaning at the low low price of (x) gold pieces!

:redcloak: Hmm. I am in need of a good dry cleaning service out in this part of the world. What is your dry cleaning services company name?

:elan: Uh, the uh, Order of the rinse?

:redcloak: Disintegrate

[B. Pseudonym]

My main objection to the dry-cleaning scheme is that Redcloak kind of knows what some of the Order looks like. It only took him like a page, maybe a page and a half to recognize Durkon.

Given the rich potential for situation comedy inherent to the dry-cleaning scheme, it is unlikely that they would be able to get the cloak in less than a page and a half.

Therefore, only party members that either know Redcloak won't recognize them or have some effective means of disguising their faces could take point on this operation, and I don't actually know which ones Redcloak would recognize, leaving us only the disguise users.

The Order's supply of disguise/illusion users consists of Elan, Vaarsuvius, and arguably Haley.

I don't think I trust any of those people to carry on a conversation with Redcloak. Each one has their own set of fascinating reasons to screw things up.

But maybe we're overthinking it. Haley and Vaarsuvius are really fast and mobile, and Redcloak does have to sleep. Just tear it off him when he's not looking and fly away. Redcloak can't fly, and therefore will not be able to chase them.

It's foolproof!

Unless he gets a lucky Disintegrate or two off before they get out of range. Or if he summons a flying creature. Or if Oona, Xykon, and/or possibly MitD go after them. Or if he manages to restrict their movement somehow. Or if the clasp on the Mantle is too well-made for Haley and V to overcome without waking him up. Or if they make a noise on their way in. Or if it turns out some member of Team Evil watches Redcloak sleep, for whatever reason, and notices the cloak being stolen.

But other than that? Foolproof.

[BeerMug Paladin]

As long as people are considering outlandish ideas, I feel the need to point out that the reincarnate spell exists, and Belkar could thus reincarnate as a goblin of some variety, then don the cloak and start taking cleric levels. Bam, there we go, an evil goblin bearer of the crimson mantle on the order's team.

Even with a wisdom score too low to cast spells, he would still have the spell slots. He'd just solo Xykon and MITD after that back-to-back and just gain 16 more levels from it to allow for the final sealing of the snarl. Then he'd drop dead after realizing his entire life peaked, as that's clearly an achievement that he'll never top, so living any longer is utterly pointless.

Onto other matters, I don't think there is a group plan for what to do with the gate if they happen to stumble across it. They simply have hiding to buy time on their agenda at the moment until they can make a better plan. So whatever they do next will just be contingent on whatever they happen to blindly stumble across.

[Metastachydium]

These answers are both so implausible for Durkon doing any of this or the Dark One buying it that congratulations-you've really talked me out of thinking that him ever using the Crimson Mantle could ever work even if he could get it.

Mission target: accomplished!


Hmm. That leads to a question: Does Redcloak ever take off his red cloak? Or is it like something he's got to keep on at all times? In which case, how does he get it laundered? How can he take a shower? Does Redcloak just smell really awful all the time? Does that cloak have a century's worth of mud, blood, crud, and general filth encrusted upon it?

I'd say this is how negative stereotypes about the goblinoids were born:even their high priest smells.


More on the Crimson Mantle - wouldn't the crimson start to fade after a while? We know it can get tattered and torn, so the thread is not invulnerable. So does the dye fade, too? Does Redcloak have to regularly re-dye the cloth to maintain the color? What does he do when the stitches start to go and the hem starts to fray? Does he have to get it patched and restored? Does it lose any of its holiness when he does so?

Shouldn't we perhaps add Professon (tailor) to his entry in the Class and Level thread then?


Does Redcloak ever wrap himself in it while in the nude, wearing nothing but the cloak? If so, is that sacrilege?

I strongly hope the answers to those question are no, and yes, in that exact order.

[Goblin_Priest]

Easy.


1) First, it must be acknowledged that the Dark One is Lawful Evil, and clerics can only be one step of their god's alignment. Durkon is LG (Thor likely being NG), so he has to shift down to Lawful Neutral, minimum.
2) But of course, it's pretty hard to switch alignment in the span of a few days. Thus, Durkon can take 2 paths:

a) Quickly commit some Evil acts Miko-style. Never mind that it would be horribly out of character - just have him kick Mr. Scruffy a couple of times.

b) Find a Helm of Opposite Alignment. Again, considering the Order only has a few days and no means of fast transport (now that the Mechane has likely departed), this has a high chance of succeeding.

3) Once Durkon is comfortably settled as Lawful Neutral, he can now pop over to Redcloak and ask nicely for the Mantle. Again, never mind that the Order has no clue how the Cloak works or its power. Also, this requires Durkon to defeat Redcloak, which despite a minimum of four levels gap is easily achievable and effortless.

4) Now, Durkon has to switch gods. Imean, a major part of the last book was him reaffirming his faith in Thor, but Thor understands emergencies. Durkon, who hasn't even heard of the Dark One until a few days ago, will now believably switch an entire religion to a god whose people he has a racial bonus against.

5) The Dark One, who apparently has the observational skills of an ooze, won't notice Durkon performing this well-timed and intelligent switch. Something's off about his High Priest, as in someone completely different from a guy who has worn the cloak for over 30 years. No biggie.

6) Durkon decides to tell the Dark One to call it off. When asked "or else what?" Durkon has nothing to respond with because he has zero leverage.

Wait...



Is TDO lawful evil? Do we have any canon source on that? The only canon references I know of states he is evil, nothing more. Maglubiyet, on which he is based, in NE iirc. In D&D, goblins are NE, and he is a goblin. Further, as the goblinoids have races for each alignment, not being NE would prevent him from having CE clerics.

Which, mind you, would fit the whole "the bugbears don't give a big whoops about TDO", and why they have shamans and not clerics, if TDO is LE and they are CE.

So, him being LE would totally fit what we know, but, still, I don't think we have canonical confirmation of him being LE.

And as was pointed out, opposite of LG is CE. Which, if TDO is LE, wouldn't be any better.


Feh. You make it look hard, when it really isn't. As we know, whoever vanquishes a Supreme Leader will immediately become the new Supreme Leader, and as such, an honorary hobgoblin. Now, all Durkon has to do is torture Redcloak to death while he sleeps and then desecrate his corpse or whatever, to become non-Good. And then all he needs to do is don the Mantle and Big Purple will certainly recognize this new, somewhat short and hairy hobgoblin as his new high priest, because this short and hairy hobgoblin will be a hobgoblin and all. And then suddenly everything will be all sunshine and happiness, because it will turn out Big Purple was a really nice guy all along, and Redcloak was a bad influence on him.

While I don't see it happening, Durkon becoming the bearer of the Crimson Mantle on the technicality of being a honorary hobgoblin for defeating the Supreme Leader would be frigging hilarious.

[skim172]

My main objection to the dry-cleaning scheme is that Redcloak kind of knows what some of the Order looks like. It only took him like a page, maybe a page and a half to recognize Durkon.

Given the rich potential for situation comedy inherent to the dry-cleaning scheme, it is unlikely that they would be able to get the cloak in less than a page and a half.

Therefore, only party members that either know Redcloak won't recognize them or have some effective means of disguising their faces could take point on this operation, and I don't actually know which ones Redcloak would recognize, leaving us only the disguise users.

The Order's supply of disguise/illusion users consists of Elan, Vaarsuvius, and arguably Haley.

I don't think I trust any of those people to carry on a conversation with Redcloak. Each one has their own set of fascinating reasons to screw things up.

But maybe we're overthinking it. Haley and Vaarsuvius are really fast and mobile, and Redcloak does have to sleep. Just tear it off him when he's not looking and fly away. Redcloak can't fly, and therefore will not be able to chase them.

It's foolproof!

You're thinking too small. What the Order does is take that Crimson Mantle and then dye it with polka dots.

He'd become a laughingstock. His followers would abandon him in droves. Xykon would abandon him as an ally because he can't be seen with someone so uncool. The Dark One himself will reconsider his choice of servant.

No leader can ever be taken seriously while wearing polka dots. It's why Minnie Mouse holds no religious office.

[mormon_soldier]

:roy: Ahoy hoy! Good day sir! I can see you are a goblin of good taste and prestiege! Might I offer you our services? we do high quality dry cleaning at the low low price of (x) gold pieces!

:redcloak: Hmm. I am in need of a good dry cleaning service out in this part of the world. What is your dry cleaning services company name?

:elan: Uh, the uh, Order of the rinse?

:redcloak: Disintegrate

Redcloak takes the name dry cleaning very seriously.

[Fish]

I don't know why we would assume that the Order finds the gate. It seems likely they'll encounter the defenders of the gate, Kermit and Scooter. The gate? I wouldn't bet money on it.

Finding the gate does not strongly drive the plot through the middle of the current book, at least not from the protagonists' perspective. They would ... put up defenses of some kind, and wait until something happened?

[understatement]

Is TDO lawful evil? Do we have any canon source on that? The only canon references I know of states he is evil, nothing more. Maglubiyet, on which he is based, in NE iirc. In D&D, goblins are NE, and he is a goblin. Further, as the goblinoids have races for each alignment, not being NE would prevent him from having CE clerics.

Which, mind you, would fit the whole "the bugbears don't give a big whoops about TDO", and why they have shamans and not clerics, if TDO is LE and they are CE.

So, him being LE would totally fit what we know, but, still, I don't think we have canonical confirmation of him being LE.

And as was pointed out, opposite of LG is CE. Which, if TDO is LE, wouldn't be any better.

Thanks. I thought the Helm only changed alignment in one direction, so to speak.

I'm not sure on god alignments, but Redcloak has the Law domain and he labels his god Evil several times, so I'd thought it'd be safe to assume The Dark One is LE. Also, it looks like the goblin afterlife is Acheron, between LN and LE.

Maybe the shamans could be NE? There might not also be that one-step rule for clerics, in consideration of Durkon and Thor. I dunno.

[hamishspence]

Maglubiyet (god of goblinoids) in 3e is NE, resides in Acheron, and offers the Chaos domain. So a god's alignment does not need to match their home plane, and it does not need to exactly match the domains they offer.

If the same is true in OOTS, then the Dark One could be like Maglubiyet but Law-leaning rather than Chaos-leaning - NE but offering the Law domain.

[Edric O]

But if this was the real world ... well, imagine that Cthulhu suddenly awakens, arises, and occupies the city of Montreal, where he and his horde of humanoid giant squids construct a doomsday artifact by which they hope to disassemble the fabric of space-time. And the only people headed towards Montreal at this moment are UFC champion Khabib Nurmagomedov and a team composed of a Olympic shooter, a quantum physicist, a doctor, an indie folk singer, and a psychopath serial killer - all of whom have outsized personalities, hilarious badinage, and moving backstories. The rest of the world - sits back and watches.

Just feels like we could be more active somehow.
But in the Stickverse, the rest of the world doesn't know what is happening at all, and the Order couldn't spare the time to inform them or wait for backup. So it's not like Cthulhu and his horde of humanoid giant squids occupying the city of Montreal, it's more like them occupying a random spot in Antarctica, and the Order of Khabib are the only people close enough to reach Cthulhu before he successfully disassembles the fabric of space-time.

[skim172]

But in the Stickverse, the rest of the world doesn't know what is happening at all, and the Order couldn't spare the time to inform them or wait for backup. So it's not like Cthulhu and his horde of humanoid giant squids occupying the city of Montreal, it's more like them occupying a random spot in Antarctica, and the Order of Khabib are the only people close enough to reach Cthulhu before he successfully disassembles the fabric of space-time.

I dunno, the Dwarves and the Azurites, at least, must know the urgency. And Tarquin and his buddies are aware of the problem generally.

Yes, only the residents of Thane City are definitely updated on the urgency of the circumstances and the Azurites are weakened and far away - but you'd think those groups would send what they could, given the stakes?

Like, if the Order of Khabib's only allies were the residents of Saskatoon and what remained of the Australians after Cthulhu arose from his sleep underneath Sydney Opera House - I'd think they'd try to send what they could, you know? Like whatever was left of the Australian Defense Force, and maybe the local Saskatchewan troop of Mounties. What else do they have on their schedule that outweighs "imminent end of the cosmos"? You'd think there'd be some volunteers.

And why don't the Order of Khabib just ask broadly for some more help, y'know? Send out a request for assistance. It's the end of all existence - couldn't they put together a crowdfunding campaign at least to cover costs? Sure, secrecy is important - the Australian Secret Intelligence Service/Sapphire Guard has devoted decades to preserving the secret that New South Wales was just R'yleh's penthouse - but it feels like secrecy should be a secondary priority at this point.

[Fish]

And why don't the Order of Khabib just ask broadly for some more help, y'know?
In a world in which being evil is literally a life choice, let's broadcast a warning: if you come here to the North Pole and kick this gate hard enough, the world will be destroyed. Who's with us?

Yeah, I don't think that's a very good plan. You're going to get a lot of responses, but maybe not all of them will be people helping you.

[Emanick]

In a world in which being evil is literally a life choice, let's broadcast a warning: if you come here to the North Pole and kick this gate hard enough, the world will be destroyed. Who's with us?

Yeah, I don't think that's a very good plan. You're going to get a lot of responses, but maybe not all of them will be people helping you.

This is a fair point, but a more targeted request for backup still seems like it would be a good idea.

For instance, it seems like Hinjo should be putting together a delegation to ask the elven government to help with the situation. He probably has the ability to get their attention, and they should have both the ability to help and the motive to do so. Sure, there are reasons why they might say no, but I still think it would be worth a shot.

Narratively, of course, this is extremely unlikely to happen, but it's conceivable that Hinjo does try this and that that's why he shows up at the North Pole during this book, which seems likely since he "still has a major part to play" in the story and Belkar needs to save his life one more time. Perhaps the elves send a strike team to help defend the Gate on the condition that Hinjo goes with them, and the strike team gets killed somehow?

[skim172]

In a world in which being evil is literally a life choice, let's broadcast a warning: if you come here to the North Pole and kick this gate hard enough, the world will be destroyed. Who's with us?

Yeah, I don't think that's a very good plan. You're going to get a lot of responses, but maybe not all of them will be people helping you.

I don't know about that. The end of the universe is imminent - should we be worrying about the long-term ramifications of broader public knowledge of the Snarl's existence, when the short-term is hardly guaranteed? It'd be like the X-Files covering up knowledge of aliens during the finale of Independence Day - I think that people will figure out the truth when the world explodes.

I'd also question if there are many persons who would be motivated to enact the end of all things. The Snarl isn't just a force for evil - it's literally the end of everything, including evil folks. Xykon himself has stated he's not particularly desirous of that outcome. It's tough for evil people to achieve evil goals when the universe doesn't exist. Kim Jong-Un is a pretty evil dictator, but I think even he would hesitate to undo all the molecules of the solar system if that technology was made available. Continued existence is generally a shared goal among mortals of all alignments.

In fact, the only evil schemes we've observed so far that incorporate the end of the world as a potential outcome or a planned-for contingency have all come from the gods, who are all aware of the Snarl anyway.

Again - I accept that for this story to work in any way, this plot direction wouldn't be at all feasible. But if you ever so happen to discover that indeed Cthulhu has occupied the city of Montreal and is on the verge of voiding all the laws of nature, and somehow no one on Earth besides you are aware of it ... I really would hope you'd reconsider attacking the problem with only yourself and a ragtag team of misfits who no one else believed in.

[dancrilis]

I don't know about that. The end of the universe is imminent - should we be worrying about the long-term ramifications of broader public knowledge of the Snarl's existence, when the short-term is hardly guaranteed? It'd be like the X-Files covering up knowledge of aliens during the finale of Independence Day - I think that people will figure out the truth when the world explodes.

I'd also question if there are many persons who would be motivated to enact the end of all things. The Snarl isn't just a force for evil - it's literally the end of everything, including evil folks. Xykon himself has stated he's not particularly desirous of that outcome. It's tough for evil people to achieve evil goals when the universe doesn't exist.

The Holey Brotherhood (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) didn't seem evil but were in favour of holes existing, so it is not just evil people you need to worry about but also the misguided - and many evil people will likely discount your warnings in favour of claiming the power for their respective forces (demon lords, arch devils, themselves etc).



Again - I accept that for this story to work in any way, this plot direction wouldn't be at all feasible. But if you ever so happen to discover that indeed Cthulhu has occupied the city of Montreal and is on the verge of voiding all the laws of nature, and somehow no one on Earth besides you are aware of it ... I really would hope you'd reconsider attacking the problem with only yourself and a ragtag team of misfits who no one else believed in.
If this happens not only will I keep it to myself but I will not actually try to tackle the problem.
What is more likely.
1. That Cthulhu is raising and only I know about it.
2. I have went insane.

I think 2 is the likely more reasonable option and so I would likely be better off keeping my crazy to myself.

[skim172]

If this happens not only will I keep it to myself but I will not actually try to tackle the problem.
What is more likely.
1. That Cthulhu is raising and only I know about it.
2. I have went insane.

I think 2 is the likely more reasonable option and so I would likely be better off keeping my crazy to myself.

I'm now convinced that Cthulhu has risen and only you know about it.
This is the "Refusal of the Call" stage of your hero's journey.


Next is "Supernatural Aid", so be on the lookout for wandering wizards, mystic oracles, or an artifact falling from the heavens. I understand the Hayabusa-2 space capsule safely returned to Earth yesterday with samples collected from an asteroid. It certainly must hold the answers you seek.

[KorvinStarmast]

What else do they have on their schedule that outweighs "imminent end of the cosmos"? You'd think there'd be some volunteers. People are too busy following a hilarious, or an aggrivating, Twitter feed. Or watching The Voice.

And why don't the Order of Khabib just ask broadly for some more help, y'know? They set up a GoFundMe page. :smallcool:
It'd be like the X-Files covering up knowledge of aliens during the finale of Independence Day - I think that people will figure out the truth when the world explodes. Which would be a touch too late.

I'd also question if there are many persons who would be motivated to enact the end of all things. {snip} Continued existence is generally a shared goal among mortals of all alignments.
{snip} But if you ever so happen to discover that indeed Cthulhu has occupied the city of Montreal and is on the verge of voiding all the laws of nature, and somehow no one on Earth besides you are aware of it ... I really would hope you'd reconsider attacking the problem with only yourself and a ragtag team of misfits who no one else believed in. What? I tweeted my outrage over the lack of governmental response, isn't that doing enough? :smallyuk:

[Fish]

I don't know about that. ... I'd also question if there are many persons who would be motivated to enact the end of all things.
"So, ( Mr Bond | Superman | People of the New Republic ) now that I have you at my mercy, let me tell you about my doomsday device for destroying (the world | the world's supply of gold | the world's supply of water | global telecommunications | the state of California | the galaxy ) unless you give me ."

I think you'll find a lot of evil people would be happy to [i]pretend to destroy the world, and fight over the right to possess the doomsday device for their own reasons.

[Goblin_Priest]

Maglubiyet (god of goblinoids) in 3e is NE, resides in Acheron, and offers the Chaos domain. So a god's alignment does not need to match their home plane, and it does not need to exactly match the domains they offer.

If the same is true in OOTS, then the Dark One could be like Maglubiyet but Law-leaning rather than Chaos-leaning - NE but offering the Law domain.

We know Redcloak has the Law domain? I feel like I keep forgetting that.

Also... what? Gods granting alignment domains which they don't adhere to? That makes no sense at all.

[KorvinStarmast]

Also... what? Gods granting alignment domains which they don't adhere to? That makes no sense at all. Arwen Undomiel begs to differ with the second to last sentence in your signature. The lore in Minas Tirith is that on their honeymoon night her repetitious singing of "Sweet Mystery of Life, at last I've found you!" could be heard as far away as the Pellenor Fields

[The Pilgrim]

Assuming the Order finds The Gate, their next challenge is to find a way to get it destroyed without getting repetitive. After four gates blown up, it's not going to be an easy task.

[Precure]

Assuming the Order finds The Gate, their next challenge is to find a way to get it destroyed without getting repetitive. After four gates blown up, it's not going to be an easy task.

Greyview: Existence is pain *bites the gate*

KABOOOOM!!!

[littlebum2002]

Greyview: Existence is pain *bites the gate*

KABOOOOM!!!

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/73956312.jpg

[denthor]

The IFCC has plans. They have a device and the will to use it. This is not over with gate. This is not anywhere near the end. My guess 5 to 6 hundred strips. If not another 1,000 jokes must be made.

[KorvinStarmast]

The IFCC has plans. They have a device and the will to use it. This is not over with gate. This is not anywhere near the end. My guess 5 to 6 hundred strips. If not another 1,000 jokes must be made.

And I think that the device is an artifact ... :smallcool:

[skim172]

Greyview: Existence is pain *bites the gate*

KABOOOOM!!!

Order of the Scribble: "I know that for the last four gates, we constructed them so as they can be destroyed by fire, a self-destruct rune, a sword, and another sword - but this time, how about we make the gate out of pure nitroglycerin? Let's make it out of a material that actively counteracts its own existence.

"I mean, we could just pour 100 meters of concrete over it, but that's just silly."

[The Pilgrim]

Order of the Scribble: "I know that for the last four gates, we constructed them so as they can be destroyed by fire, a self-destruct rune, a sword, and another sword - but this time, how about we make the gate out of pure nitroglycerin? Let's make it out of a material that actively counteracts its own existence.

"I mean, we could just pour 100 meters of concrete over it, but that's just silly."

They already covered the last Gate with concrete (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0894.html).

It didn't work (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0899.html).

[skim172]

They already covered the last Gate with concrete (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0894.html).

It didn't work (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0899.html).

I was thinking more along the lines of a giant enormous hole in the ground that you fill in. Something nondescript so its location wouldn't immediately be obvious. Then you build an entire dungeon or pyramid on top of it. And you leave absolutely no passageways open that go to wherever the gate is - on the assumption that no mortal has any good reason to try to reach the gate's location (which I think is a reasonable assumption). Even the real pyramid builders in Egypt tried to blocked up the passageways to keep their mummies safe from looters. While I totally understand Girard's trust in the powers of illusion and deception of the mind, I think that these could've been supplemented with the power of "not constructing a corridor that leads directly to the gate's location".

I was also thinking of utilizing a concrete mixture formula that was not quite so brittle. A couple whacks from Roy's big knife and it falls apart? That's some unsafe building practices there. I think Girard needs to get his money back from whichever cowboy builders constructed his pyramid.

[KorvinStarmast]

A couple whacks from Roy's big knife and it falls apart? That's some unsafe building practices there. I think Girard needs to get his money back from whichever cowboy builders constructed his pyramid. That mixed metaphor didn't work. Concur with the 'not to code' building practices, however.

[Ionathus]

I was thinking more along the lines of a giant enormous hole in the ground that you fill in. Something nondescript so its location wouldn't immediately be obvious.

We have an actual real-world analogue, in the Finnish tunnels that will store nuclear waste (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoy_WJ3mE50) for millions of years! They tried brainstorming all sorts of warning messages that would be translatable no matter how language evolved...but in the end they're just gonna try hiding it.

I assumed that the gates need regular coatings of Dorukan's Mystical Gate Paint (Lead-free) to maintain their proper shine and prevent tarnishing.

[Malloon]

I dunno, the Dwarves and the Azurites, at least, must know the urgency. And Tarquin and his buddies are aware of the problem generally.

Yes, only the residents of Thane City are definitely updated on the urgency of the circumstances and the Azurites are weakened and far away - but you'd think those groups would send what they could, given the stakes?

Like, if the Order of Khabib's only allies were the residents of Saskatoon and what remained of the Australians after Cthulhu arose from his sleep underneath Sydney Opera House - I'd think they'd try to send what they could, you know? Like whatever was left of the Australian Defense Force, and maybe the local Saskatchewan troop of Mounties. What else do they have on their schedule that outweighs "imminent end of the cosmos"? You'd think there'd be some volunteers.

And why don't the Order of Khabib just ask broadly for some more help, y'know? Send out a request for assistance. It's the end of all existence - couldn't they put together a crowdfunding campaign at least to cover costs? Sure, secrecy is important - the Australian Secret Intelligence Service/Sapphire Guard has devoted decades to preserving the secret that New South Wales was just R'yleh's penthouse - but it feels like secrecy should be a secondary priority at this point.

Is it weird that I really, really want to watch a film about that?

[Metastachydium]

While I totally understand Girard's trust in the powers of illusion and deception of the mind, I think that these could've been supplemented with the power of "not constructing a corridor that leads directly to the gate's location".


By which you mean at least two, but up to four (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0892.html) corridors to make things even worse, don't you?


Is it weird that I really, really want to watch a film about that?

You're not the only one.