Undead wizard hp

[cartejos]

Doea a necropolitan wizard gain d4 hit dice from wizard levels or the d12 from being undead?

I assume the d4, because unless their is a specific rule for undead, wouldnt humanoids gain a d8?

[Remuko]

Doea a necropolitan wizard gain d4 hit dice from wizard levels or the d12 from being undead?

I assume the d4, because unless their is a specific rule for undead, wouldnt humanoids gain a d8?

Right under creating a Necropolitan


Hit Dice: Increase to d12.

So yes, all Necropolitan HD are D12s. The example Necropolitan also has 5d12 for HD despite being a 5th level wizard

[KillianHawkeye]

This is something that undead templates usually do, and it's because undead don't have a Con score for bonus hit points and they also are destroyed as soon as they reach 0 hp.

Note, however, that non-templated undead creatures, like the example in the Monster Manual of a mummy cleric, do not gain this upgrade and take the normal hit dice of any class levels they gain.

[Doctor Despair]

As a wizard, you gain d4s at each level.

Upon taking the Necropolitan template, all your current HD increase to D12s.

If you take class levels after taking the Necropolitan template, you would again gain HD appropriate for your class. If you take levels in wizard, it means you would gain d4s, not d12s.

As an undead creature, you would gain no bonus HP from whatever your con score was. This could be problematic for a character who will be in the line of fire for any appreciable amount of time.

You can offset this somewhat by, if you are allowed to use Dragon material, taking the Faerie Mysteries Initiate feat, allowing you to use Int for bonus HP instead of Con.

There are also two specific abilities that allow you to use charisma instead of con (one granted by the Dry Lich template, and Undead Resilience, a quality posessed by specific undead creatures), but both are difficult to access.

If you are unable to take the Initiate feat, and the other two abilities aren't viable for your character, you can gain a different template just by existing for a century or more: Evolved Undead. This grants you fast healing 3, which should make up for whatever con bonus your wizard used to have providing you aren't killed in one attack.

Additionally, as an undead creature, you are vulnerable to spells like Detect Undead, Turn/Rebuke Undead, and, more dangerously, Greater Turning. Be aware of that. Spells like Disguise Undead can be valuable for that reason. Being a Changeling with Racial Emulation can offset this risk somewhat, as you would detect as a living creature for all purposes.

[ChaosStar]

As a wizard, you gain d4s at each level.

Upon taking the Necropolitan template, all your current HD increase to D12s.

If you take class levels after taking the Necropolitan template, you would again gain HD appropriate for your class. If you take levels in wizard, it means you would gain d4s, not d12s.

As an undead creature, you would gain no bonus HP from whatever your con score was. This could be problematic for a character who will be in the line of fire for any appreciable amount of time.

You can offset this somewhat by, if you are allowed to use Dragon material, taking the Faerie Mysteries Initiate feat, allowing you to use Int for bonus HP instead of Con.

There are also two specific abilities that allow you to use charisma instead of con (one granted by the Dry Lich template, and Undead Resilience, a quality posessed by specific undead creatures), but both are difficult to access.

If you are unable to take the Initiate feat, and the other two abilities aren't viable for your character, you can gain a different template just by existing for a century or more: Evolved Undead. This grants you fast healing 3, which should make up for whatever con bonus your wizard used to have providing you aren't killed in one attack.

Additionally, as an undead creature, you are vulnerable to spells like Detect Undead, Turn/Rebuke Undead, and, more dangerously, Greater Turning. Be aware of that. Spells like Disguise Undead can be valuable for that reason. Being a Changeling with Racial Emulation can offset this risk somewhat, as you would detect as a living creature for all purposes.
Nope. All current and future HD become d12s, that's part of all Templated Undead.

[Doctor Despair]

Nope. All current and future HD become d12s, that's part of all Templated Undead.

The template reads: All HD become d12s. It does not confer any special benefit to future HD. I was in your camp for years until someone pointed it out to me recently on these forums that it requires a (very reasonable) house rule for it to apply to future HD.

[Crake]

Nope. All current and future HD become d12s, that's part of all Templated Undead.


The template reads: All HD become d12s. It does not confer any special benefit to future HD. I was in your camp for years until someone pointed it out to me recently on these forums that it requires a (very reasonable) house rule for it to apply to future HD.

It's arguable, since "All HD" does encompass.. well... all the HD the creature both has currently, or will get in the future. It doesn't say "All current HD" like the lich or vampire template (which then also adds in future HD as well), it merely says "All HD".

I think if you take note of precedence in previous undead templates, it makes sense for it to mean current and future.

[Rijan_Sai]

Right under creating a Necropolitan



So yes, all Necropolitan HD are D12s. The example Necropolitan also has 5d12 for HD despite being a 5th level wizard

That may not be entirely true... Looking through some of the other undead templates, a few examples (Ghost Brute, Gravetouched Ghoul, Necropolitan) all have that same "HD: Increase to d12". However, a few others (Mummified Creature, Vampire, Ghost) all state "HD: All current and future HD become d12s (Or for MC: Increase all current and future HD to d12.")
(Side note: That was all the templated undead I could find in LM)
Mummified Creature comes from the same book (Libris Mortis) as the first set, but specifically calls out "all current and future HD" while the others only say "increase to d12". Note that while Ghost Brute has "Advancement: -" indicating that the creature does not change from the time it becomes a ghost, most of the others lack an "Advancement" line at all, indication that there is no change from the base creature (Vampire does have "Advancement: By character class", so that's... something?)
Anyway, the point I'm trying to get at is that it seems, at least to me, that the "Group 1" monsters only increase current HD to 12, while the "Group 2" ones increase all HD forever.

Also please note that this is not an "in-depth" study of undead HD; these are just a few examples I found with a quick glance through LM & MM.
Just a bit of an aside: the MM Mummy and Ghoul are their own separate creatures, not templates. As such, they advance by HD rather than class (with Lacedon and Ghast being alternate forms of Ghoul.) The exception to this is the Mummy Lord, which is specifically allowed to advance by class; none of these are available for players anyway, given the "Level Adjustment: -" line, whereas all the others except for Ghost Brute are given LA, and thus are available player options (DM discretion, of course).


And as more has been said since I started this: looking at the Undead Type in the glossary of the MM, it does say "-12-sided HD" However, this is part of the "Features" category and not the "Traits". The distinction there is that, just like classes, "features" is what you get for each "level" (read: HD) of undead that you have (the sample Ghost Brute, for example, has 2d12 HD, because the dog it was has 2 HD. Thus is has all of the "features" of the undead HD: d12 HD, poor BAB, Good Will, 4+Int skill points.
"Traits" are what all undead get from the Undead Type.

Thinking a little more about it, "Group 1" would likely change only Racial/Type HD to d12s, particularly those that can advance by class. "Group 2" still changes any and all HD to d12s, as noted. (<-But I can't currently confirm this to be true.)

Minor Edit, but similar "theme":
This whole question is very similar to the question of the Feral Creature from SS: "A feral creature gains additional special attacks/qualities depending on it's Hit Dice..." I've heard it argued that those would only be gained from Racial HD, and not advanced with any class levels. I believe this is relevant because, if that it true, it would lean heavily towards the "Only Racial HD are changed to d12" for the "Group 1" monsters.
If, however, a Feral Creature's special attacks and qualities can increase with class levels, then it would give more precedence to "Group 1" changing class HD to d12s as well.
At least, this is how I see it...