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Koeh
2020-12-01, 01:17 PM
I'm almost done with a Monster Manual I've been working on in my limited free time over the last few years. It's for Rule of Cool's Legend system, for anyone that remembers that. (sunk cost fallacy... never heard of it....) But the system shouldn't be important for my questions.

I wanted to know if anyone might have suggestions for what they would consider "essential" in a monster manual for a generic fantasy setting. Feel free to comment on anything, but specifically:

1)Are there any specific types of monsters you would want to always see in a 1st Monster guide?

2)Any sort of elements in the descriptions or mechanics you like to see in monster guides? (such as living environment, social and eating habits, uses x ability against lightly armored foes, etc.). Or perhaps are such things just clutter and only the mechanics and stats of the monster are important? Currently I have a brief description of story about the monster Usually 3-4 sentences long, and the rest is mainly focused on mechanics.

3)Is there anything that you've always wanted to see in a Monster guide or perhaps is rare to see?

4) Do you think I should add a "How to run this monster" for every entry, or in general would it be best to let DM's figure out how they like to run the monsters? Right now I only have a seperate section for that on the higher level or mechanically complex entries.

Here's the list of the names for what is already included for anyone maybe see if I'm missing something specific. It's mostly inspired from my time with D&D 3.5 edition. Some names have been changed though, Such as Eye Tyrant for a Beholder, or All the Nyarlath stuff being a mix of multiple Aberrations.


CR1
Automaton ....................................17
Dire Rat .........................................94
Giant Spider ..................................139
Living Vortex ................................174
Ogre ...............................................203
Small Elemental, Air ....................7
Small Elemental, Earth ...............118
Small Elemental, Fire ..................129
Small Elemental, Water ...............246
Will-O-Wisp ..................................251
Wolf, Pack Leader ........................254
Zombie ..........................................260

CR2
Archon, Lantern ...........................42
Arrowhawk ....................................14
Bulezau Demon ............................66
Gelatinous Cube ...........................135
Ghost Blade ..................................136
Minor Devil, Imp .........................84
Nyarlath Spawn ............................56
Restless Spirit ................................212
Saguaro Sentinel ...........................215
Salamander ....................................217
Viper ...............................................245

CR3
Assassin Vine ................................15
Centaur ..........................................44
Dire Hawk .....................................94
Drider .............................................110
Dryad .............................................112
Invisible Stalker ............................170
Mantis Warrior, Hive Leader .....177
Mantis Warrior, Drone ................178
Minor Demon, Babau .................72
Monstrous Crab ...........................187
Wererat ..........................................231

CR4
Astral Deva Angel ........................34
Elemental, Air ...............................7
Elemental, Earth ..........................118
Elemental, Fire .............................129
Elemental, Water ..........................246
Fungal Horror...............................133
Gargoyle ........................................134
Griffin ............................................160
Hill Giant .......................................148
Hooked Horror ............................162
Lesser Vampire Spawn ................244
Minotaur ........................................184
Sahuagin .........................................216
Worg.............................................. .255

CR5
Clay Golem ...................................151
Cultist Initiate ...............................50
Digester Beetle, Drone ................178
Doppelganger ...............................96
Gorgon ..........................................158
Harpy .............................................161
Minor Devil, Hellhound .............84
Nightshade ....................................192
Pegasus........................................... 204
Werecanid ......................................226
Wyrmling Dragon ........................98

CR6
Archon, Hound ............................42
Basilisk ...........................................22
Bearded Devil ...............................74
Boneclaw .......................................25
Dire Bear .......................................94
Fire Giant ......................................144
Frost Giant ....................................146
Remorhaz ......................................211
Siren............................................. ...218
Taunting Haunt ............................222
Troll ................................................23 9

CR7
Arisen Demon ..............................32
Caller in Darkness ........................29
Mimic .............................................185
Minor Demon, Spiculum ............73
Night Mare ....................................201
Unicorn ..........................................240
Velociraptor ..................................93
Werecheetah..................................228
Werefox .........................................229

CR8
Blight ..............................................23
Cadaver Collector ........................27
Dullahan ........................................113
Minor Devil, Fallen Angel ..........84
Nightspector .................................194
Ocean Giant ..................................149
Pixie ................................................20 7
Pterosaur........................................8 7
Wyvern ...........................................256

CR9
Chimera .........................................45
Dire Elephant ...............................94
Hell Lion Devil .............................78
Land Shark ....................................173
Redcap ...........................................209
Seraphim Angel ............................38
Succubus Demon .........................71
Vampire Spawn ............................244
Weretiger .......................................233
Werewolf .......................................235
Yrthak ............................................258

CR 10
Archon, Trumpet .........................43
Death Knight ................................59
Dragon, Adult ...............................99
Flesh Golem .................................152
Hound of Ulster ...........................21
Large Elemental, Air ....................7
Large Elemental, Earth ...............118
Large Elemental, Fire ..................129
Large Elemental, Water ...............246
Nyarlath Mage ..............................54
Nyarlath Stalker ............................57
Treant .............................................237

CR11
Cultist Devotee .............................50
Giant Corpse .................................137
Hydra .............................................166
Pharaoh ..........................................205
Plesiosaur .......................................85
Stone Golem .................................156
Werebear .......................................224
Winged Serpent ............................252

CR12
Chain Devil ...................................76
Effrit ...............................................124
Honey Badger ...............................95
Kracken .........................................171
Manticore ......................................175
Minor Demon, Nalfeshnee ........73
Triceratops ....................................89

CR13
Amoebic Creeper .........................10
Cerebelith Demon .......................67
Elder Elemental, Air ....................7
Elder Elemental, Earth ...............118
Elder Elemental, Fire ..................129
Elder Elemental, Water ...............246
Greater Vampire Spawn..............244
Marilith Demon ............................69
Sphinx ............................................220
Windigo .........................................249

CR14
Banshee ..........................................21
Cloud Giant ..................................142
Draugwood ...................................106
Giant Worm ..................................140
Nightterror ....................................196
Lionel Angel ..................................36
Tyrannosaurus Rex ......................91


CR15
Abyssilisk .......................................5
Cultist Priest ..................................51
Demi-Lich .....................................61
Dragon, Ancient ...........................100
Ice Devil ........................................80
Vampire Lord ...............................242

CR16
Dracolich .......................................104
Dread Wraith ................................108
Horrornet ......................................164
Iron Golem ...................................154
Master of Masks ...........................179
Nyarlath Herald ............................52

CR17
Dullahammer ................................115
Eye Tyrant .....................................126
Nightwalker ...................................198
Primal Elemental, Air ..................8
Primal Elemental, Earth ..............119
Primal Elemental, Fire .................130
Primal Elemental, Water .............247

CR18
Angel of Decay .............................12
Balor Demon ................................63
Eldritch Titan ...............................121
Pit Fiend Devil .............................82
Roc .................................................2 13

CR19
Banshee Queen .............................18
Inevitable .......................................168
Master of the Hunt ......................181

CR20
Avatar of Nyarlath .......................47
Dragon, Great Wyrm ..................102
Nevermore ....................................188
Solar Angel ....................................40

Alternative Rules ..........................261
Errata (Legend 1.1) ......................267
Monstrous Feats ...........................268
[Legendary] Tracks.......................270

Thanks!

MoiMagnus
2020-12-01, 02:03 PM
Good luck for your project!

Essential Monsters:

I believe you covered most of them but I didn't check in details.

Humans!
Seriously, the sections on NPCs from 5e's monster manual is the most used section for me. It's not the most interesting, but it's very useful.

Dragons, Vampires, Genies
Those are IMO the most iconic "big iconic magical creatures" that scream "we're in a fantasy world".
I'm hesitating to put angels and devils/demons here too, but I don't really consider them as essential.

Invoked creatures
Elementals, skeletons, whatever is possible in the universe.

Some barbaric non-extraplanar creatures
It can be orcs, goblins, whatever.

Some civilised non-extraplanar creatures
It can be giants, elves, whatever.

Descriptions
a) Some typical environment they might try to use at their advantage. For clever creatures, it can be traps.
b) For creatures where negotiations is possible, the deal breakers (disrespecting the dragon, trespassing on a sacred place). The equivalent of real life tourist guides that says "don't do drug in this country or you will get death penalty".
c) If your game does not follows the philosophy "when a combat start, one side will be fully exterminated by the end of the fight", then some guide to how reckless those creatures are.
d) Monster-defining abilities should be clearly identifiable, or in the guide associated. You don't want something along the line of "At will ability: Light, Minor illusion, Dominate person. Once per day: Jump." where a major component of the monster is lost at the middle of RP ribbons.This example was absurdly exaggerated, but you get the idea.

General informations that would be welcome
+ Note on whether it is assumed that the monsters start at full power their encounter, or that they already have HP/resources exhausted.
+ How to quickly resolve a trivial encounter in few rolls.


Bonus
Squads. Something I've home-brewed quite frequently was the monster "squad of archers" that can attacks with a barrage of arrows (Dex save to halve damages) until they become dispersed into normal archers (usually because half of them died from a fireball). I've never been fully satisfied of my implementations (sometimes the barrage of arrows was a capacity from regular archers, sometimes it was a capacity from the officers with a power proportional with the remaining of alive archers, etc), but it was a great way to handle hordes of enemies.

zarionofarabel
2020-12-01, 08:24 PM
No Rust Monster!?!?

LordCdrMilitant
2020-12-01, 08:34 PM
I'm almost done with a Monster Manual I've been working on in my limited free time over the last few years. It's for Rule of Cool's Legend system, for anyone that remembers that. (suck cost fallacy... never heard of it....) But the system shouldn't be important for my questions.

I wanted to know if anyone might have suggestions for what they would consider "essential" in a monster manual for a generic fantasy setting. Feel free to comment on anything, but specifically:

1)Are there any specific types of monsters you would want to always see in a 1st Monster guide?

2)Any sort of elements in the descriptions or mechanics you like to see in monster guides? (such as living environment, social and eating habits, uses x ability against lightly armored foes, etc.). Or perhaps are such things just clutter and only the mechanics and stats of the monster are important? Currently I have a brief description of story about the monster Usually 3-4 sentences long, and the rest is mainly focused on mechanics.

3)Is there anything that you've always wanted to see in a Monster guide or perhaps is rare to see?

4) Do you think I should add a "How to run this monster" for every entry, or in general would it be best to let DM's figure out how they like to run the monsters? Right now I only have a seperate section for that on the higher level or mechanically complex entries.

Here's the list of the names for what is already included for anyone maybe see if I'm missing something specific. It's mostly inspired from my time with D&D 3.5 edition. Some names have been changed though, Such as Eye Tyrant for a Beholder, or All the Nyarlath stuff being a mix of multiple Aberrations.


CR1
Automaton ....................................17
Dire Rat .........................................94
Giant Spider ..................................139
Living Vortex ................................174
Ogre ...............................................203
Small Elemental, Air ....................7
Small Elemental, Earth ...............118
Small Elemental, Fire ..................129
Small Elemental, Water ...............246
Will-O-Wisp ..................................251
Wolf, Pack Leader ........................254
Zombie ..........................................260

CR2
Archon, Lantern ...........................42
Arrowhawk ....................................14
Bulezau Demon ............................66
Gelatinous Cube ...........................135
Ghost Blade ..................................136
Minor Devil, Imp .........................84
Nyarlath Spawn ............................56
Restless Spirit ................................212
Saguaro Sentinel ...........................215
Salamander ....................................217
Viper ...............................................245

CR3
Assassin Vine ................................15
Centaur ..........................................44
Dire Hawk .....................................94
Drider .............................................110
Dryad .............................................112
Invisible Stalker ............................170
Mantis Warrior, Hive Leader .....177
Mantis Warrior, Drone ................178
Minor Demon, Babau .................72
Monstrous Crab ...........................187
Wererat ..........................................231

CR4
Astral Deva Angel ........................34
Elemental, Air ...............................7
Elemental, Earth ..........................118
Elemental, Fire .............................129
Elemental, Water ..........................246
Fungal Horror...............................133
Gargoyle ........................................134
Griffin ............................................160
Hill Giant .......................................148
Hooked Horror ............................162
Lesser Vampire Spawn ................244
Minotaur ........................................184
Sahuagin .........................................216
Worg.............................................. .255

CR5
Clay Golem ...................................151
Cultist Initiate ...............................50
Digester Beetle, Drone ................178
Doppelganger ...............................96
Gorgon ..........................................158
Harpy .............................................161
Minor Devil, Hellhound .............84
Nightshade ....................................192
Pegasus........................................... 204
Werecanid ......................................226
Wyrmling Dragon ........................98

CR6
Archon, Hound ............................42
Basilisk ...........................................22
Bearded Devil ...............................74
Boneclaw .......................................25
Dire Bear .......................................94
Fire Giant ......................................144
Frost Giant ....................................146
Remorhaz ......................................211
Siren............................................. ...218
Taunting Haunt ............................222
Troll ................................................23 9

CR7
Arisen Demon ..............................32
Caller in Darkness ........................29
Mimic .............................................185
Minor Demon, Spiculum ............73
Night Mare ....................................201
Unicorn ..........................................240
Velociraptor ..................................93
Werecheetah..................................228
Werefox .........................................229

CR8
Blight ..............................................23
Cadaver Collector ........................27
Dullahan ........................................113
Minor Devil, Fallen Angel ..........84
Nightspector .................................194
Ocean Giant ..................................149
Pixie ................................................20 7
Pterosaur........................................8 7
Wyvern ...........................................256

CR9
Chimera .........................................45
Dire Elephant ...............................94
Hell Lion Devil .............................78
Land Shark ....................................173
Redcap ...........................................209
Seraphim Angel ............................38
Succubus Demon .........................71
Vampire Spawn ............................244
Weretiger .......................................233
Werewolf .......................................235
Yrthak ............................................258

CR 10
Archon, Trumpet .........................43
Death Knight ................................59
Dragon, Adult ...............................99
Flesh Golem .................................152
Hound of Ulster ...........................21
Large Elemental, Air ....................7
Large Elemental, Earth ...............118
Large Elemental, Fire ..................129
Large Elemental, Water ...............246
Nyarlath Mage ..............................54
Nyarlath Stalker ............................57
Treant .............................................237

CR11
Cultist Devotee .............................50
Giant Corpse .................................137
Hydra .............................................166
Pharaoh ..........................................205
Plesiosaur .......................................85
Stone Golem .................................156
Werebear .......................................224
Winged Serpent ............................252

CR12
Chain Devil ...................................76
Effrit ...............................................124
Honey Badger ...............................95
Kracken .........................................171
Manticore ......................................175
Minor Demon, Nalfeshnee ........73
Triceratops ....................................89

CR13
Amoebic Creeper .........................10
Cerebelith Demon .......................67
Elder Elemental, Air ....................7
Elder Elemental, Earth ...............118
Elder Elemental, Fire ..................129
Elder Elemental, Water ...............246
Greater Vampire Spawn..............244
Marilith Demon ............................69
Sphinx ............................................220
Windigo .........................................249

CR14
Banshee ..........................................21
Cloud Giant ..................................142
Draugwood ...................................106
Giant Worm ..................................140
Nightterror ....................................196
Lionel Angel ..................................36
Tyrannosaurus Rex ......................91


CR15
Abyssilisk .......................................5
Cultist Priest ..................................51
Demi-Lich .....................................61
Dragon, Ancient ...........................100
Ice Devil ........................................80
Vampire Lord ...............................242

CR16
Dracolich .......................................104
Dread Wraith ................................108
Horrornet ......................................164
Iron Golem ...................................154
Master of Masks ...........................179
Nyarlath Herald ............................52

CR17
Dullahammer ................................115
Eye Tyrant .....................................126
Nightwalker ...................................198
Primal Elemental, Air ..................8
Primal Elemental, Earth ..............119
Primal Elemental, Fire .................130
Primal Elemental, Water .............247

CR18
Angel of Decay .............................12
Balor Demon ................................63
Eldritch Titan ...............................121
Pit Fiend Devil .............................82
Roc .................................................2 13

CR19
Banshee Queen .............................18
Inevitable .......................................168
Master of the Hunt ......................181

CR20
Avatar of Nyarlath .......................47
Dragon, Great Wyrm ..................102
Nevermore ....................................188
Solar Angel ....................................40

Alternative Rules ..........................261
Errata (Legend 1.1) ......................267
Monstrous Feats ...........................268
[Legendary] Tracks.......................270

Thanks!


I'm going to second the notion that humanoid sentinent organized opposition is by far the most important part of a index of foes. The majority of random wandering monsters will go unseen and unused, and are likely to be irrelevant to the story anyway. [Also, IMO, there's an implicit assumption that encounters with wild monsters in the wilderness should be generally trivial for a party to deal with, otherwise things that are essential for a nation of any size to prosper like trade and farming would break down due to regular threat]

I would reccomend:
Irregulars [a gang member, conscript, cultist, etc]
Infantry
Archers
Cavalry
Mages
Veterans

Vahnavoi
2020-12-02, 04:02 AM
You should definitely have rules for human opponents as well as plenty of normal life.

But despite years of D&D telling you otherwise, those are not monsters. Really, if you want to figure which monsters are essential to fantasy, you have to for a moment forget D&D and other RPGs even exist and focus on concepts that were widespread in myth and folklore before modern fantasy fiction.

By and large those tend to be things that mix or blur two intuitive categories (person, animal, object, living, dead). Examples include:

Human but less: a person that lacks one defining trait of personhood, creating new and terrifying concepts such as: a person without a body (ghost), a person without a mind (zombie), a person that keeps doing people things despite being dead (skeleton, ghoul, vampire).

Human but more: a person with some skill or quality taken to impossible heights: giants, titans, gods and heroes.

Animal but human: anthropomorphized animals, talking animals.

Human but animal: lycantrophes, animalistic or savage humanoids (centaur, minotaur)

Animals but more: giant beasts, beasts with superlative qualities (Nemean lion, golden stag).

Animal and animal and yet another animal: all those weird mish-mash creatures, like chimera or sphinx or a dragon.

Object put person: talking swords, living statues, golems.

You don't need a lot of monsters from each category. One from each would be enough.

EDIT: now that I have more time, answers to the four questions:

1) No.

2) Morale and alignment - not necessarily described in way old school D&D and AD&D expressed them, but expressed nonetheless. Living environment and rarity are also good, make it easier to slot monsters into encounter design.

3) The five basic reactions in a hostile encounter are fight, flight, freeze, posture and submit. The last two can be replaced with parley and surrender for clarity. Each monster ought to have at least one sentence description of how it commonly acts in these basic scenarios.

4) Yes. My answer to 3) above is part of that. Imagine a roleplaying game where the game offers no information of how to play a given role to the player. That's what a game is doing when it gives GM a bunch of numerical mechanics and no clue as to what those mechanics are supposed to model. You are excused with mundane animals because a GM can always crack open an etiology book and figure out that way why, say, an elk has +N to swim and what it's supposed to do with it. With fictional creatures, the GM is at your mercy. You need to at least refer to source mythology in order for invented things to make sense.

Koeh
2020-12-02, 03:55 PM
Good luck for your project!

Essential Monsters:

I believe you covered most of them but I didn't check in details.

Humans!
Seriously, the sections on NPCs from 5e's monster manual is the most used section for me. It's not the most interesting, but it's very useful.

Dragons, Vampires, Genies
Those are IMO the most iconic "big iconic magical creatures" that scream "we're in a fantasy world".
I'm hesitating to put angels and devils/demons here too, but I don't really consider them as essential.

Invoked creatures
Elementals, skeletons, whatever is possible in the universe.

Some barbaric non-extraplanar creatures
It can be orcs, goblins, whatever.

Some civilised non-extraplanar creatures
It can be giants, elves, whatever.

Descriptions
a) Some typical environment they might try to use at their advantage. For clever creatures, it can be traps.
b) For creatures where negotiations is possible, the deal breakers (disrespecting the dragon, trespassing on a sacred place). The equivalent of real life tourist guides that says "don't do drug in this country or you will get death penalty".
c) If your game does not follows the philosophy "when a combat start, one side will be fully exterminated by the end of the fight", then some guide to how reckless those creatures are.
d) Monster-defining abilities should be clearly identifiable, or in the guide associated. You don't want something along the line of "At will ability: Light, Minor illusion, Dominate person. Once per day: Jump." where a major component of the monster is lost at the middle of RP ribbons.This example was absurdly exaggerated, but you get the idea.

General informations that would be welcome
+ Note on whether it is assumed that the monsters start at full power their encounter, or that they already have HP/resources exhausted.
+ How to quickly resolve a trivial encounter in few rolls.


Bonus
Squads. Something I've home-brewed quite frequently was the monster "squad of archers" that can attacks with a barrage of arrows (Dex save to halve damages) until they become dispersed into normal archers (usually because half of them died from a fireball). I've never been fully satisfied of my implementations (sometimes the barrage of arrows was a capacity from regular archers, sometimes it was a capacity from the officers with a power proportional with the remaining of alive archers, etc), but it was a great way to handle hordes of enemies.

Ok, I'm going to have to revise my statement from "almost done" to "another year or so" :smallbiggrin: - but don't take that the wrong way! I was worried running out of stuff to do, so sincerely thank you all for the reply's and I welcome anymore suggestions. Got something unique and you want credit? I'll totally add in it.

The biggest time investment sounds like a I need more detailed descriptions for morale, "alignment", reactions and various expected behaviors. Noting favorite and iconic abilities sounds like a great idea too.

The base game comes with some "mook" rules for some quick basic characters, but I've always felt they were fairly limited, or too much time of a investment for anything other than a beat stick. Having a specific section for quick humanoid or intelligent NPC's using those rules as a starting point sounds perfect. And a squad is an easy addition here too. I'll probably use the list LordCdrMilitant suggested and I'll add a "shaman" for a healing option.

For specific monsters that were suggested:

I'll be adding a Djinn next to the Effrit entry. (probably going to do a spirit of earth and water as well to complement the fire and air).
I've tried to make a Rust monster before... it's never worked properly, since in the Legend system Items are either plentiful and thus the monster is barely an inconvenience or PC's barely use permanent items at all and so it's literally no threat, I feel that there's very little design space for them. The other way to run a Rust Monster, where the items are important and difficult to replace, seems to result in a "save or lose" situation, which Legend does a pretty good job at avoiding... But that's a setting and system specific problem which I'll try to avoid discussion here. I'll give it another shot at the drawing board see what I can come up with. - It would probably end up being a temporary debuff that's possible to remove, but I'm not sure that fits the "iconic" Rust monster.