Swift Hunter Query

[kkortekaas]

So I've got a question regarding the Swift Hunter feat found in Complete Scoundral. The feat basically allows you to stack Scout and Ranger levels for determining Skirmish abilities and likewise for Favored Enemy Abilitys
ie.
4 Scout / 4 Ranger = effective level 8 for purposes of determining Skirmish bonus and favored enemy bonuses.

Anyways, my question is this, the final paragraph of the feat's text seems to imply (at least to me) that regardless of the situation, I am able to automattically apply my skirmish damage to my favored enemy (even if I don't actually move the 10ft to activate my skirmish ability) Am I understanding this correctly?

Thanks.

[Keld Denar]

No, you still have to qualify for skirmish. The meaning of that verbage is that you can apply your precision based damage against favored enemies that are normally immune to precision based damage. That means Undead, Constructs, Plants, and Oozes with the approraite favored enemy selection.

[kkortekaas]

No, you still have to qualify for skirmish. The meaning of that verbage is that you can apply your precision based damage against favored enemies that are normally immune to precision based damage. That means Undead, Constructs, Plants, and Oozes with the approraite favored enemy selection.

Righto. Thanks for the clarification

[Person_Man]

FYI, Swift Hunter works well for ranged builds, its good fluff, and its fun.

But if you're going close combat instead, I prefer to stick with strait Ranger or Ranger/PrC. With Favored Power Attack and Oversized TWF or Improved Unarmed Strike, you can deal some very serious damage.

Also, there are a ton of very useful Ranger spells in the expansions. And the Sword of the Arcane Order feat (Champions of Valor) allows Rangers (or Paladins) in the Forgotten Realms to memorize Wizard spells. This gives them access to all sorts of useful gish possibilities, without losing any BAB or special abilities.

So multi-classing and spending a feat for an extra 5d6ish Skirmish damage isn't always a great idea.

[Keld Denar]

So multi-classing and spending a feat for an extra 5d6ish Skirmish damage isn't always a great idea.

Unless you are Greater Multishotting. Then you are all kinds of silly. You'll be dropping more d6s than a fireball happy warmage.

[cupkeyk]

Are the spells of a Sword of the arcane order Arcane? Can he use that to qualify for the spellcasting prerequistes of a prc like swiftblade or aburant champion?

[kkortekaas]

FYI, Swift Hunter works well for ranged builds, its good fluff, and its fun.

But if you're going close combat instead, I prefer to stick with strait Ranger or Ranger/PrC. With Favored Power Attack and Oversized TWF or Improved Unarmed Strike, you can deal some very serious damage.

Also, there are a ton of very useful Ranger spells in the expansions. And the Sword of the Arcane Order feat (Champions of Valor) allows Rangers (or Paladins) in the Forgotten Realms to memorize Wizard spells. This gives them access to all sorts of useful gish possibilities, without losing any BAB or special abilities.

So multi-classing and spending a feat for an extra 5d6ish Skirmish damage isn't always a great idea.


It's funny that you mention the ranged thing, as this guy is an archer. He's currently a Scout 2 / Ranger 1, and by 6th level I'll have met all the pre-reqs for Swift Hunter at which point I'll be a skirmishing machine.

Any suggestions on a good PRC that has archery in mind, or like a woodsy scouty guy?

[cupkeyk]

Technically, prc'ing is a bad idea, you get the greater manyshot ability by level twelve and by then you are already spellcasting. The swift hunter handbook is here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=12511855#post12511855).

Its a pretty well established build.

[Azerian Kelimon]

I'd say Order of the Bow initiate is good, but it was a 3.0 class. Another one is Arcane Archer, but it's no luminaire.

[Keld Denar]

No PRC needed. I'd get Ranger to 2, then Scout to about 3-4, then Ranger all the rest of the way. This nets you more BAB, and Ranger spells. There are lots of good Ranger spells to deal with Archery. Arrow Mind, Hawk Eye, and quite a few others. Look in SC and CAv for most of them.

[Person_Man]

Are the spells of a Sword of the arcane order Arcane? Can he use that to qualify for the spellcasting prerequistes of a prc like swiftblade or aburant champion?

As far as I know, your spells are still divine spells. So it depends on the wording of the specific PrC.

Also, its a poor idea to use a Ranger to get into most caster PrC, because you still use Ranger caster progression, which is pretty slow.


Back on topic, there are no really good archer PrC. Futhermore, if you want to be a Swift Hunter, you want to avoid PrC. The Swift Hunter feat only applies to Ranger and Scout levels, not PrC levels.

[RebelRogue]

Unless you are Greater Multishotting. Then you are all kinds of silly. You'll be dropping more d6s than a fireball happy warmage.
I don't know the Greater Multishot Feat explicitly, but normally you only apply one set of Sneak Attack/Skirmish damage for volley attacks such as the one granted by an (ordinary) Manyshot Feat. Are you sure this is not the case here?

[Fax Celestis]

I don't know the Greater Multishot Feat explicitly, but normally you only apply one set of Sneak Attack/Skirmish damage for volley attacks such as the one granted by an (ordinary) Manyshot Feat. Are you sure this is not the case here?

Greater Manyshot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterManyshot) explicitly states that you apply precision damage to all your attacks.

[RebelRogue]

Greater Manyshot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterManyshot) explicitly states that you apply precision damage to all your attacks.
OK, I stand corrected. In that case: ouch!

[Person_Man]

OK, I stand corrected. In that case: ouch!

Meh. Your damage output tends to be:

d8+Str+magic+Skirmish+Favored Enemy per arrow

Nice, but not impressive. At mid levels you're shooting 2-4 arrows, each dealing around 10-30ish damage. And you have a huge defensive benefit in that you can Move and Fire more then one arrow every turn. At higher levels, you can buy a +1 Flaming Shocking Etc. Bow, and fire +1 Acid Wounding Ad Nasuem Arrows, and have a friend cast Greater Magic Weapon on your bow, and you end up firing +4 Flaming Shocking Acid Wounding Etc. Ad Nasuem arrows. Plus DR is rarely an issue, since you can just stockpile arrows of every type.

So it can be done, and done well.

But having played a strait Scout, a strait Ranger, and a Swift Hunter in a wide variety of encounters, I can tell you that it gets boring in combat. You use the same tactic in every combat. Your damage output can't compete with casters or melee builds. You rarely add interesting effects other then damage to your attacks. You have no battlefield control. And you lack UMD, which means you can't stockpile fun wands to use.

My advice is to play it and have a good time, but avoid it if its going to be a very long term campaign. Otherwise, you'll get bored to tears the 100th time you announce "I Move and then Shoot X arrows."

[Rad]

To spice the swift hunter up there is the 3-levels dip in a PrC from Races of the Dragon that gives you +1d6 skirmish damage and spellcasting as a 1st level sorcerer; then you can enter Unseen Seer (CMage) for more skirmish and spellcasting and close with Abjurant Champion. You end up with 6th level spells which is not bad and allows you to do more diverse things.

[Fax Celestis]

To spice the swift hunter up there is the 3-levels dip in a PrC from Races of the Dragon that gives you +1d6 skirmish damage and spellcasting as a 1st level sorcerer; then you can enter Unseen Seer (CMage) for more skirmish and spellcasting and close with Abjurant Champion. You end up with 6th level spells which is not bad and allows you to do more diverse things.

Also, you'll end up with better Skirmish damage, but worse Skirmish AC. That's not a bad tactic, actually.

[cupkeyk]

Also, you'll end up with better Skirmish damage, but worse Skirmish AC. That's not a bad tactic, actually.
Depending when and if your dm permits partial BAB progression, your bab may not be affected at all.

[cupkeyk]

But having played a strait Scout, a strait Ranger, and a Swift Hunter in a wide variety of encounters, I can tell you that it gets boring in combat. You use the same tactic in every combat. Your damage output can't compete with casters or melee builds. You rarely add interesting effects other then damage to your attacks. You have no battlefield control. And you lack UMD, which means you can't stockpile fun wands to use.

On the contrary, a quiver of fifty spell storing arrows costs only 8350 gp. With proper spell selection, although you may never be Batman, you could very well be Green Arrow. Select spells that offer no saves or partial effects on a save. Although you won't ever expect to overcome the SR of a dragon to one shot him with a Shivering Touch arrow, an Arrow of Iron Bands is still effective against a fighter. Each golem is weak against a specific spell your mage is unlikely to memorize, simply because they are evoc. With an appropriate knowledge check you an target a creatures weakest save and still expect some effect from save/negates. Carrying around an arrow with Dimensional anchor stored in it is always smart.

remember to buy a quiver of ehlonna to limit the micromanagement of your spell arrows because the quiver always lets you draw what you desire