polymorph into specific creatures?

[newguydude1]

can you do that?

so like if my friend is a 20 int wizard, can i polymorph any object into him and get 20 int?

im not seeing shapechanges restriction of a single nonunique creature in polymorph or alter self.

[Duke of Urrel]

can you do that?

so like if my friend is a 20 int wizard, can i polymorph any object into him and get 20 int?

im not seeing shapechanges restriction of a single nonunique creature in polymorph or alter self.

No, you can't really polymorph into a perfect clone of a specific creature, but you can seem to do so.

The general rule for spells of the Polymorph Subschool appears on page 320 of the Player's Handbook v. 3.5 (2012). (This rule also appears on pages 95 and 96 of the Player's Handbook II v. 3.5 (2006).)


Unless otherwise noted in the spell's description, the subject of a Polymorph spell takes on all the statistics and special abilities of an average member of the assumed form in place of its own. (The emphasis is my own.)

Most Polymorph spells also conform to the following rule from the descriptive text of the Polymorph spell, which appears on page 263.


The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores of the new form but retains its own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores (The emphasis is my own.).

The Polymorph Any Object spell modifies this rule as follows (page 263).


Unlike Polymorph, Polymorph Any Object does grant the creature the Intelligence score of its new form.

The Polymorph Any Object still follows the general rule of the Polymorph Subschool above. This means that even when you change your Intelligence score, your new score must be the score "of an average member of the assumed form." (The Baleful Polymorph spell follows this rule, too, but probably not to the subject's benefit.)

In contrast, the Shapechange spell (page 277) follows the rule that you keep your own Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Although the Shapechange spell gives you the greatest freedom of any Polymorph spell, it still doesn't allow you to assume the form of a unique creature. Therefore, you still must accept the physical ability scores of an average creature of the assumed form.


This spell functions like Polymorph, except that it enables you to assume the form of any non-unique creature (of any [creature] type. (The emphasis is my own.)

Although you cannot use any Polymorph spell to become a perfect duplicate of a unique creature, you can create a very good disguise that makes you look just like any unique creature. The following rule also appears on page 320 and applies to the Polymorph spell, the Polymorph Any Object spell, and the Shapechange spell.


The spellcaster can freely designate the assumed form's minor physical qualities, such as hair color and skin color, within the normal ranges for the assumed form's kind. The assumed form's significant physical qualities, such as height, weight, and gender, are also under the spellcaster's control, but they must fall within the norms for the assumed form's kind. The subject of a polymorph spell is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its assumed form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.

So although you must always acquire the physical ability scores of an average creature of the assumed form, you can become a creature that is above or below average in size and that looks stronger or weaker than it really is.

[newguydude1]

thanks i always forget about that polymorph subschool exists and phbii errata'd it.

i guess im off to hunt for a humanoid with 14 intelligence stat block...

[Crake]

Although you cannot use any Polymorph spell to become a perfect duplicate of a unique creature, you can create a very good disguise that makes you look just like any unique creature. The following rule also appears on page 320 and applies to the Polymorph spell, the Polymorph Any Object spell, and the Shapechange spell.

Unique creatures are used to refer to creatures that are one-of-a-kind, so you couldn't for example, try and shapechange into a demon lord, or a tarrasque. It's referring to the creature being unique, not the individual. This is evidenced by the fact that previous spells are limited by creature type, but shapechange is only limited to non-unique creatures.

Unless you're suggesting that every polymorph spell before shapechange is able to turn into unique individuals, but shapechange, the final spell in the line, is not able to, since, y'know, alter self, polymorph, and polymorph any object make no mention whatsoever about unique creatures.

[Clistenes]

can you do that?

so like if my friend is a 20 int wizard, can i polymorph any object into him and get 20 int?

im not seeing shapechanges restriction of a single nonunique creature in polymorph or alter self.

Nope. You change into average members of the new race or species, no templates or class levels included. So for a human, 10 in every stat...

You gain the new form's Creature Type, Size, Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Extraordinary Special Attacks, Movement, Natural Armor Bonus, Natural Weapons, Racial Skill Bonuses and Racial Feats.

You keep your old form's Memories, Personality, hp, Wisdom, Charisma, Class Levels (including spells and class features), Alignment, Base Attack Bonuses, Base Save Bonuses, Spell-like and Supernatural Attacks and Supernatural Special Qualities...

The rule of thumb is, you can only polymorph into average members of the species, and if it is something biological, you get the features of the new form, but if it is something learned or magical, you get the features of the old form...

[newguydude1]

so i guess this means i cant polymorph into an illumian, grab assume supernatural ability illumian sigil and illumian words, and use naenhoon?

[aglondier]

Has anyone published feats or prcs around optimising your polymorph shapes stats? Like, instead of turning into an average human, I could turn into Conan...or rather, a human that is above average in strength health and agility...

[Kalkra]

so i guess this means i cant polymorph into an illumian, grab assume supernatural ability illumian sigil and illumian words, and use naenhoon?

I don't see why you couldn't, although you'd need to dig up the rules of humanoid RHD.


Has anyone published feats or prcs around optimising your polymorph shapes stats? Like, instead of turning into an average human, I could turn into Conan...or rather, a human that is above average in strength health and agility...

It's basically Minor Shapeshift, Reserves of Strength, (Greater) Assume Supernatural Ability and Metamorphic Transfer for feats, plus Otherworldly if you can swing it, and Surrogate Spellcasting if you need it.

For PrCs all I can think of offhand is Master Transmogrifist, and I guess sorta Paragnostic Apostle and Warshaper.

For spells, you've got Strength of the True Form, which you probably won't use unless you were scouting and need to attack or something, and anything that turns you into an outsider, Fiendform being the only one I know of available to wizards.

Generally, you might want to look here (http://www.bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=10479.0).

[newguydude1]

I don't see why you couldn't, although you'd need to dig up the rules of humanoid RHD.

illumians get illumian word at 2nd level. generic means 1st level warrior right, and does the generic have the illumian sigils that i want?