Analysis Class and Level Geekery XVIII - Everyone's an Expert [Archive]

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Kurald Galain

2020-12-05, 12:16 PM

Welcome to the latest incarnation of the Class and Level Geekery thread! Here, we are discussing what the possible stats are for each of the six OOTS members. Below is an estimate of the characters' stats; this was first kept by Runolfr, Wrecan, Chrismith, and RMS Oceanic. I will update these posts as the discussion continues and as subsequent strips reveal more information about OOTS and the other characters.

The aim of this thread is that we give D&D statistics for the characters in the comic based on the events and statements made in the comic, plus statements by The Giant in the forum and his books. For this purpose, we assume that the comic strictly follows the 3.5E D&D rules. We are aware that The Giant has stated that he doesn't always follow the rules, because his goal is to write a story and not to write session reports from a D&D campaign. Nevertheless, in this thread we assume the rules are being followed anyway, and see what stats, feats, and skills could explain what happens. Essentially, that means we're taking the rules side of the comic more seriously than its author does; if you like, you can assume a little footnote on every factoid of this thread that says "* or The Giant used a houserule". Why? Well, because it's Geekery. If Star Trek fans can do it, then so can we :smallwink:

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: Does The Giant check this thread?
Yes, but only really for spell lists. (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?411301-Interview-Questions-For-Rich/page4&p=19164058#post19164058)

Q: Which source books are used in the comic?

Player's Handbook 1 and Dungeon Master's Guide 1
Book of Vile Darkness (certain monsters; Boost Spell Resistance feat)
Complete Adventurer (ninjas)
Complete Arcane (warlocks; Tsukiko's and Zz'dtri's spells)
Complete Warrior (hexblade)
Dungeonscape (Thog; the acid-breathing shark; note that The Giant co-wrote this book)
Expanded Psionics Handbook (blue; mindblade)
Fiend Folio (certain monsters)
Frostburn (Frostbite spell)
Magic of Incarnum (mentioned by Redcloak's lackey)
Monster Manual (mentioned by Celia and Vaarsuvius)
Monster Manual 2 (certain monsters)
Oriental Adventures (other samurai class, and mentioned by Xykon)
Races of the Dragon (winged kobold)
Spell Compendium (numerous spells that aren't from the PHB1)
uncertain: Epic Level Handbook (a feat and spell from this book are mentioned, but most epic characters or spells in the comic don't follow the rules from this book)

Q: In which comic do the characters demonstrate having leveled?

Level
:roy:
:belkar:
:durkon:
:elan:
:haley:
:vaarsuvius:

9
12
12
12
12
12
12

10
124
125
124
124
124
124

11
???
???
201
???
???
186

12
251
249
???
382
477
220

13
???, 665
???
556, 1162
392
511
397

14
485, 862
???
859
647
???
627

15
-
860
864
860
648
716

16
-
-
-
-
990
935

Q: Which characters are included in this thread?
(1) All named members of the Order, Team Evil, the Linear Guild, the Order of the Scribble, and the Vector Legion.
(2) Any frequently occurring character, as noted in the Character Appearances thread. Note that this includes Samantha: it was easier to be a common character back when the comic was shorter. We don't unlist characters just because they've died.
(3) Family members of the main characters, as long as we have something to write about them.
This means that Daigo and Bandana would be next in line, but we don't have a lot of material on either character.

Q: Which material is covered by this thread?
All comics on the web and in print (including SSDT, Gygax magazine, and the Kickstarter bonus stories), as well as anything written about the comic by The Giant. However, not included are any one-panel joke comics, such as used for incentives, t-shirts, or the fundraiser.
Note that even though the characters have stated they aren't sure whether this is the same continuity, certain items and abilities have been shown to carry over. We're listing all of it here for the sake of convenience, but any material from (e.g.) SSDT is clearly marked as such so that people can distinguish it from the main online comics.

Q: I've heard there was a fight over some topic years ago, and now we're not allowed to discuss it any more. Is that the case?
No; this thread does not have a banned topic list. Of course, the forum as a whole has one; please see the board rules for details.

Q: Is a character's statement about another character considered evidence?
Yes. We assume that when a character says something about another character's (or their own) ability scores, build, feats, and so forth, they are speaking the truth, except where this contradicts with other evidence or is clearly not possible within the rules.

Q: If a character makes a special attack like grappling, and the victim does not make an attack of opportunity, can that be evidence of a feat like Improved Grapple?
Yes, assuming the victim is armed, and otherwise capable of making AOOs. It is clear that the rules for attacks of opportunity are used in the comic, and there is no reason to assume that grappling/tripping/sundering is an exception.

Q: If somebody doesn't say the name of a spell while casting it, does that mean he has the Silent Spell feat?
Not necessarily. We know that Vaarsuvius doesn't have that feat, and yet V still occasionally casts spells while talking about something else.

Q: What does "Core" mean?
The three "Core" books in 3E D&D are the Player's Handbook 1 (PHB), Dungeon Master's Guide 1 (DMG), and Monster Manual 1 (MM). This is an official term defined by WOTC, who put the word "Core" in big letters on the cover of these three books. No other books are Core, and there is no such thing as "partially Core", "almost Core", or "semi-Core" - every book is either Core or non-Core. Note that both the OOTS comic and this thread contain numerous non-Core elements.

Q: Does The Giant use house rules?
Probably. But for the purpose of this thread, we assume that the comic doesn't, except where The Giant has explicitly said so, or where some event is clearly not possible by the rules. That is, we try to explain events in the comic within the rules as much as possible, and that means not leaving factoids out of this thread just because The Giant might not have followed the rules there.

Q: A character undertook this heinous/awesome/dutiful/impulsive/meh action. Does that mean they are now evil/good/lawful/chaotic/neutral?
No. As seen in a thousand forum threads, people have different ideas about alignment, and what defines and changes them. The alignments posted here are taken from the character's own mouth, someone else in a position to know their alignment, or their use of a spell/feat/whatever which has an alignment restriction. Kindly refrain from speculating from how a character's action changes their alignment, since it's not really something you can reason out with facts and numbers.

Q: A character undertook this brilliant/moronic/insightful/ignorant/inspiring/repulsive action. Does that mean they now have a high/low intelligence/wisdom/charisma score?
No. Similar to the previous question, people have different ideas about what the mental ability scores represent and how much they influence a character's personality. The ability scores posted here are taken from the character's own mouth, someone else in a position to know their scores, or their use of a spell/feat/whatever which requires a minimum ability score. Kindly refrain from speculating from how a character's personality changes their ability scores, since it's not really something you can reason out with facts and numbers either.

Q: How does Xykon cast Maximized Energy Drain in comic 652?
We don't know for sure. The most popular theories involve the feat Sudden Maximize, the feat Improved Spell Capacity, or a Rod of Metamagic. Each theory has its pros and cons. Note that comics 429 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html), 442 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html), and 1041 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1041.html) have implications for Xykon's level, and that 653 requires (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html) the Metamagic Specialist alternate class feature, regardless of his level.

Q: What magic item makes Xykon immune to fire damage in comic 653?
We don't know for sure; there are multiple items within RAW that make their user immune to fire, available from level 14. Note that Xykon doesn't specify whether it's an amulet, ring, belt, or other kind of item.

Kurald Galain

2020-12-05, 12:17 PM

:roy: Roy Greenhilt
Lawful Good (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0490.html), Human male Fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0285.html) 14+ (forum (http://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=19392374&postcount=533)).
Str 29 (same as a frost giant (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1075.html)).
Dex 13+ (required for Improved Grapple).
Con 12+ (151+ hit points (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1109.html)).
Int 14-17 (very good, less than Vaarsuvius, forum).
Wis 14+ (very good, forum).
Cha 12+ (decent, forum; less than Elan (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0101.html)).
Age: 29 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0500.html).
Feats: Cleave (prerequisite for Great Cleave), Combat Expertise (prerequisite for Improved Disarm), Great Cleave (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0102.html), Improved Disarm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1003.html), Improved Grapple (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0730.html), Improved Sunder (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0795.html), Improved Unarmed Strike (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1070.html), Least Legacy, Lesser Legacy, Power Attack (prerequisite for Cleave), Run (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0005.html), Spellsplinter Maneuver (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1003.html), Weapon Focus (prerequisite for Weapon Specialization), Weapon Specialization: greatsword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0064.html).
Skills: Bluff 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0139.html), Heal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0234.html), Intimidate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html), Jump (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1004.html), Knowledge: Arcana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0326.html), Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0808.html), Knowledge: Geography (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0690.html), Knowledge: Planes (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0669.html), Listen low (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0323.html), Profession: Baseball Player (BRITF), Profession: Goatherd (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0141.html), Ride 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0141.html), Sense Motive 0 (OOPC), Spellcraft (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0221.html), Spot low (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0323.html).
Items: Magical (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0693.html) heavy armor (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0902.html), Bag of Tricks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html), club (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0151.html), newspaper (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html), heirloom +5 Starmetal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0297.html) Greatsword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0136.html) of Legacy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1025.html), formal suit (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0310.html), shillelagh oil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0443.html), potion of delay poison (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0443.html), Ring of Protection (WXP), Manual of Gainful Exercise (SSDT), non-magical boots (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0896.html), bedroll (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0669.html), list of Xykon's spells, feats and magic items (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Belt of Giant Strength (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0687.html), book, sextant (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0690.html), runestone (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1024.html), Wrecan's book (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1025.html), scarf, potions of Cure Serious, Remove Paralysis, Magical Vestment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1099.html).

:belkar: Belkar Bitterleaf aka Ali S. Fakenamington (KS:US), aka the Belkster, aka Death's Li'l Helper (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0488.html)
Chaotic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0230.html) Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0489.html), Halfling (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0021.html) male Ranger 14 / Barbarian 1 (forum, deafened by Holy Word (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0860.html)).
Str 14-17 (jump exceeds movement, forum, and carrying capacity in SSDT).
Dex 13+ (required for Spring Attack).
Int <10 (OOPC).
Wis 9 (ability score penalty (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html), and can use a third-level scroll when buffed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html)).
Cha <10 (without any charisma (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0312.html)).
Age: 28+ (ranger for three years, over a year ago (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html)).
Feats: Endurance, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Track, Two-Weapon Fighting (all ranger bonus feats); Bounding Assault (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0176.html), Craft Disturbing Mental Image (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0249.html), Dodge (prerequisite for Spring Attack), Improved Sunder (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0325.html), Mobility (prerequisite for Spring Attack), Power Attack (prerequisite for Improved Sunder), Spring Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html); no feats related to special attacks (SSDT).
Skills: Balance 5+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0279.html), Climb (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0230.html), Craft: Alchemy (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0435.html)), Craft: Trapmaking (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0270.html), Handle Animal 0 (NCPB), Hide (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0468.html), Jump (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0019.html), Move Silently 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0270.html), Profession: gourmet chef 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html), Sense Motive 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0171.html), Speak Language: Halfling (racial), Spellcraft 4+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html), Spot 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0119.html), Survival 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0213.html), Tumble (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1026.html), Use Magic Device (SSDT).
Abilities: Halfling racial abilities, ranger and barbarian class abilities, animal companion: Mr. Scruffy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0682.html), favored enemy: human (forum) (http://www.sequentialtart.com/article.php?id=467) and undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0957.html), scent (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0383.html).
Items: Unholy symbol (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0011.html), red chalk (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0038.html), cloak (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0107.html), Ring of Jumping +20 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html), stilts, Sapphire guard disguise (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0294.html), Ring of Protection (WXP), quill (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0357.html), string (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0379.html), chef hat, Mama Bitterleaf's secret ingredient (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0476.html), clothespin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0526.html), bedroll (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0573.html), +4 and +2 daggers (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=16461748&postcount=668) (forum), mallet and spike (DSTP), mimic (SSDT), wand of dispel clothing (SSDT), 18 pounds of salt (GYG), book: Dune (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0690.html), bucket and spade (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0695.html), bag of holding full of money (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0807.html), +5 Dagger of Collision (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0960.html), +3 Vest of Resistance, Clasp of Protection from Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0969.html), Feather Fall item (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1015.html), spatula, stakes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1043.html), track-covering powder.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/MrScruffy.png Mr. Scruffy
True Neutral (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?p=15667889#post15667889) (forum), Cat male, animal companion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0682.html).
Str 6 (animal companion).
Dex 18 (animal companion).
Con 10 (racial).
Int 2 (racial).
Wis 12 (racial).
Cha 7 (racial).
Age: 7 (WXP).
Feats: Stealthy, Weapon Finesse (racial bonus feats).
Skills: Balance +10, Climb +6, Hide +16, Jump +10, Listen +3, Move Silently +8, Spot +3 (all racial skills).
Abilities: Racial abilities; animal companion abilities; 3 tricks, including attack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0520.html) and come (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0522.html).
Items: String (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0673.html), gear and wind-up key (UD), potion of Greater Magic Fang (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1099.html).

:durkon: Durkon Allotrope Thundershield
Lawful Good (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0844.html), Dwarf (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0076.html) male Cleric of Thor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0007.html) 13 (required to cast Regenerate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1162.html)).
Str 16-21 (can carry Vaarsuvius (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0507.html), can't carry Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0038.html), before getting his belt).
Dex <10 (dex penalty, SSDT).
Con ~12 (racial).
Wis 22-23 (forum (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?485983-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XIV-We-are-the-Geek-Pantheon/page26)).
Cha <10 (low modifier (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html), see also DCF).
Age: 55+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0732.html).
Feats: Extend Spell or Sudden Extend (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0839.html), Extra Turning (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0016.html), Leadership (UD), Martial Weapon Proficiency: Warhammer.
Skills: Concentration 7+ (forum) (http://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23921708&postcount=418), Knowledge: Dungeoneering (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1239.html), Knowledge: Religion not maxed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html), Listen 0 (OOPC), Ride 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0141.html), Speak Language: Dwarven (racial) and Giant (SSDT), Spellcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html), Spot 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0318.html).
Abilities: Dwarf racial abilities, Turn Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0016.html), Good domain (required to cast Holy Smite (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0806.html)),
Items: Candles (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0007.html), bedroll (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0016.html), deck of cards (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html), holy symbol (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0073.html), Amulet of Natural Armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html), Ring of Protection (WXP), parcheesi board (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0380.html), spyglass (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0444.html), religious vestments (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html), scroll of Sending (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html), belt pouch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0673.html), Bleedingham papers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0732.html), flask of liquor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html), Macebook (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0739.html), 5,000+ gp of diamond dust (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0845.html) (Greg used 5000 for Symbol of Death), robe, Hammer of Thunderbolts, Gauntlets of Ogre Power (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1154.html), Belt of Giant Strength (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1160.html), plate armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1181.html).
Spells: Standard cleric list, domain spells, plus Bless Beer (WXP), Call Lightning (DCF), Cat's Grace (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0027.html), Control Winds (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0837.html), Cure Itchy Wounds (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0335.html), Heat Blisters of Eternal Pain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0007.html), Heathen Smiting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0007.html), Mass Death Ward with backdoor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0876.html), Thor's Lightning (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0473.html), and Tumor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0007.html), unspecified clock spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0690.html).

:elan: Elan
Chaotic Good (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0445.html), Human male Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) 14+ (required to retrain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html) to Cure Critical Wounds (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0949.html)) / Dashing Swordsman (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0390.html) 1+.
Str 10-11 (KS:H&J, and the same as Nale (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=821955&postcount=47), forum).
Dex 13-17 (required for Dodge, and to get a four on Move Silently (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0766.html)).
Con same as Nale.
Int 4-9 (too low to cast cantrips (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0127.html), but higher than Thog (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0388.html).
Wis <10 (not even a smidgen (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0080.html)).
Cha 22+ (required for 5th level spells at level 13 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html), +2 from belt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html)).
Age: 22 (same as Nale, who is five years older than Julia, who is 17).
Feats: Dodge, Mobility (both prerequisites for Spring Attack), Spring Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0761.html), Still Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0156.html).
Skills: Bluff 0 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0767.html), Concentration 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1065.html), Craft: Shiv 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html), Diplomacy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html), Hide (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0468.html), Listen (higher than Sir Francois, OOPC), Move Silently <3 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0766.html), Perform: riddles 2+ (BRITF), Perform: sing 12+ (required for Inspire Greatness (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0593.html)), Perform: string instruments 15+ (required for Song of Freedom (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0890.html)), Perform: kazoo 3+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html), Profession: Chef (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1236.html), Ride 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0141.html), Spot 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0318.html), Spellcraft 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0324.html), Tumble (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0026.html).
Abilities: Bard class abilities, charismatic strike (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0390.html), dramatic instincts (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0392.html), glass damage immunity (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0471.html).
Items: Bedroll (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html), Banjo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0073.html), coffee maker (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0081.html), espresto box (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html), ceremonial meat costume (OOPC), ritalin (OOPC), dice (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0121.html), Boots of Elvenkind (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html), kazoo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0198.html), jam, lantern, pingpong bat, roller skate, squirrel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0206.html), yoyo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html), Ring of Protection (WXP), dashing outfit (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0388.html), toothbrush (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0391.html), Lutey the Lute-tastical Lute (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0471.html), evil sword (SSDT), castanets and sombrero (SSDT), equipment lists (GYG), Belt of Charisma +2 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html), treasure chest (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0691.html), drawing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0693.html), The Stick the Order was named after (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0696.html), letter, Chaos Sabre (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0943.html), Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0970.html), Armand Vestinghole (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1091.html); no armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0594.html).
Spells: Animate Rope (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0156.html), Cure Critical Wounds (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0949.html), Disguise Self (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html), Ghost Sound (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1197.html), Greater Dispel Magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html), Heroism (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1221.html), Lesser Confusion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0721.html), Major Image (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0597.html), Mass Cure Light Wounds (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html), Mending (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0400.html), Neutralize Poison (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html), Prestidigitation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0085.html), Silent Image (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0674.html), Summon Plot Exposition (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0013.html); no Identify (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0766.html), nor Break Enchantment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0790.html).

:haley: Haley Starshine aka Mistress Nightingale, aka The Red Blur (OOPC), aka Dark Mistress Shadowgale (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0093.html)
Chaotic Good (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html), Human female Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0008.html) 16 (based on attacks per round (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0648.html) and leveled since then (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0990.html)).
Str 15-19 (high enough to carry Belkar (forum) (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24761499&postcount=1102), but can't carry Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0038.html)).
Dex 20-21 (modifier of +5, forum).
Con 9+ (higher than Vaarsuvius (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0843.html)).
Int 12+ (received bonus languages (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0247.html)).
Cha 12-19 (with any charisma (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0312.html); and with maxed out Bluff (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0412.html), for Hide to be her best skill (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0311.html), her cha mod has to be less than her dex mod).
Age: About 25 (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=12254291&postcount=24) (forum; was 24 here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html), and that was (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0198.html) over a (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0260.html) year ago (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0702.html)).
Feats: Dodge (SSDT), Improved Precise Shot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0615.html), Manyshot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0062.html), Martial Weapon Proficiency (longbow) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0454.html), Point Blank Shot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0062.html), Precise Shot (prerequisite for IPS), Ranged Pin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html), Ranged Sunder (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0511.html), Rapid Shot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0062.html).
Skills: Appraise (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0129.html), Bluff 18+ (maxed out) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0412.html), Climb (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1243.html), Disable Device (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0841.html), Forgery (OOPC), Hide 18+ (best skill) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0311.html), Knowledge: Arcana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0578.html), Knowledge: Planes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1028.html), Knowledge: Religion low (forum) (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=15175785&postcount=48), Open Lock 15 (forum), Ride 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0141.html), Search 10+ (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1219.html) not maxed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0840.html), Sense Motive 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0171.html), Spellcraft 9+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0867.html), Spot 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0318.html), Tumble (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0108.html), Use Magic Device 7+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0834.html), Use Rope 8 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0069.html).
Abilities: Rogue class abilities; three special rogue abilities, two spent on a feat (based on feat count for her level).
Items: Two gemstones (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0123.html), 8 Bags of Holding (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html), towel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html), hair dryer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0278.html), Ring of Protection (WXP), rope (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html), +5 Air Freshener of Pineness (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0526.html), a lot of clothes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0570.html), bedroll (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0573.html), +5 Icy Burst Longbow (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0615.html), bag of copper pieces (SSDT), magic leather armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html), dyed Boots (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html) of Speed (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=11095086&postcount=2) (forum), trowel, metal detector (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0692.html), Bleedingham papers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0726.html), 4+ quivers of green arrows (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0799.html) including silver and cold iron (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0062.html), three potions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0799.html) (since Belkar took one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0807.html)), thief's tools (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0841.html), Z's wands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html), Wand of Obscuring Mist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0971.html), Magic Missile (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0973.html), Fly (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0975.html), adamantine dagger (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0976.html), and four others (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0970.html), winter coat, Elan's coat (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1099.html), Quippie the dead osquip head.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/5O6gx.png Minrah Elle Shaleshoe
Lawful good (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1148.html), Dwarf female, Fighter 1+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1180.html) / Cleric 9+ (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1212.html).
Str 15-19 (prerequisite for Knockdown, and can fail to pierce a vampire spawn's DR (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1102.html)).
Con ~12 (racial).
Int 13+ (required for Combat Expertise).
Wis 16+ (based on spells per day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1123.html)).
Cha 6+ (can return as a ghost (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1148.html)).
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Knockdown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1167.html), Power Attack (to get through vampire DR after having all buffs dispelled), Improved Unarmed Strike (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1132.html), Improved Bull Rush, Knockback.
Skills: Knowledge: Planes 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1138.html), Knowledge: Religion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1148.html), Spellcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1109.html).
Abilities: Dwarf racial abilities.
Items: Holy symbol, non-silvered warhammer (based on vampire spawn DR), armor, helmet (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1109.html).

:vaarsuvius: Vaarsuvius
True Neutral (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?p=11664984#post11664984) (forum), High Elf (OOPC) genderqueer (BRITF) Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0009.html): Evoker (DCF) 16 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1102.html) (+1 caster level from Blackwing's ioun stone).
Str 5-9 (can carry Yukyuk (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0800.html), and strength penalty (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0245.html)).
Dex <12 (no real attack bonus on rays, forum).
Con 8-12 (to have enough HP to survive the fight against Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html); also, lacks a decent con, forum; and lower than Haley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0843.html)).
Int 24 (forum (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=16647248&postcount=982)).
Wis 10-11 (moderate, forum).
Cha 6-9 (can return as a ghost (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0163.html), and without any charisma (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0312.html)).
Age: 131+ (WXP).
Feats: Alertness (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html), Empower Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0588.html), Extend Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1051.html), Improved Counterspell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1058.html), Maximize Spell (SSDT), Quicken Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0588.html), Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat); no Silent Spell (forum), nor Still Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0161.html).
Skills: Appraise +3 (from familiar), Concentration 12+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1160.html), Craft: Alchemy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0098.html), Decipher Script (SSDT), Knowledge: Arcana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0188.html), Knowledge: Dungeoneering (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1239.html), Knowledge: Engineering (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0896.html), Knowledge: Planes (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1056.html), Knowledge: Religion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0016.html) not high (forum) (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?p=15175785), Ride 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0141.html), Spot 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0318.html), Search 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0030.html), Speak Language: Elven (racial), raven (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0271.html), not draconic (SSDT), Spellcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0181.html), Use Magic Device 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0750.html).
Abilities: Elf racial abilities, familiar: Blackwing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html), share spells with familiar (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0691.html), scry on familiar, barred schools: Conjuration (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0340.html) and Necromancy (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=11686399&postcount=36) (forum; also by elimination).
Items: Headband of Intellect +4 (required to cast four 6th level spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0627.html) with a base int of 18 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0031.html) at level 11), doily (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0033.html), Ring of Wizardry III or IV (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0182.html), two small gemstones (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0123.html), many scrolls and spellbooks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0173.html), Ring of Protection (WXP), Finding Plot Holes for Dummies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0623.html), twelve more books (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0623.html), two potions (SSDT), apricot-scented face gel (SSDT), chalice (SSDT), jar of diamond dust (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0679.html), Bleedingham papers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0726.html), defensive potions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0923.html), Tarquin's whip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0932.html).
Spells: Arcane Sight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0693.html), Banishment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0585.html), Bear's Endurance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1116.html). Bull's Strength (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0104.html), Bugsby's Cat-Retrieving Hand (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0781.html), Bugsby's Clenched Fist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0896.html), Bugsby's Expressive Single Digit, Bugsby's Flicking Finger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0624.html), Bugsby's Grasping Hand (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0397.html), Burning Hands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1026.html), Chain Lightning (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0921.html), Charm Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0335.html), Cone of Cold (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0041.html), Crushing Despair (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0127.html), Detect Magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0116.html), Dimensional Anchor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0624.html), Dimensional Lock (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html), Disintegrate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html), Dispel Magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0049.html), Distant Inferno (OOPC), Dominate Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0800.html), Expeditious Retreat (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0005.html), Explosive Runes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0092.html), Feather Fall (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0240.html), Fireball (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0020.html), Fire Trap (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0323.html), Flamefinger (OOPC), Forcecage (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0627.html), Fly (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0507.html), Greater Dispel Magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0839.html), Greater Invisibility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1051.html), Gust of Wind (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html), Haste (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0684.html), Heroism (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0684.html), Hold Monster (SSDT), Hold Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html), Hold Portal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0178.html), Identify (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0009.html), Invisibility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0157.html), discount Invisibility Sphere (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0088.html), Light (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1101.html), Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0020.html), Locate Creature (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1020.html), Locate Object (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1077.html), Magic Missile (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html), Mass Bear's Endurance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0427.html), Mass Bull's Strength (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0427.html), Mass Enlarge Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0427.html), Mass Suggestion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1057.html), Mind Blank (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1104.html), Overland Flight usable on others (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0835.html), Owl's Wisdom (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html), Passwall (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0857.html), Polymorph (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0697.html), Power Word Blind (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0306.html), Power Word Stun (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0716.html), Prestidigitation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0323.html), Prismatic Spray (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0591.html), Protection from Arrows (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0240.html), Ray of Frost (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0950.html), Resilient Sphere (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0935.html), Scorching Ray (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html), See Invisibility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0624.html), Sending (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0630.html), Shadow Conjuration (http://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=19156714&postcount=6) (to cast Evan's Tentacles, forum), Silent Image a.k.a. Phantasmal Force (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0750.html), Sleep (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html), Stinking Cloud (DCF), Stoneskin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0790.html), Stone to Flesh (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0790.html), Suggestion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0178.html), Summon Plot Hole (Supercollider Mash-Up), Telepathic Bond (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1220.html), True Seeing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0691.html), Vaarsuvius' Enhanced Scrying (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0504.html), Vaarsuvius' Greater Animal Messenger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0563.html), Vampiric Touch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0049.html), Veil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html), Wall of Fire (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0919.html), Wall of Force (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0955.html), unspecified polymorph spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0955.html), unspecified sonic spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0345.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Blackwing.png Blackwing (Common name (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0674.html))
Raven (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html) male, familiar.
Str 1 (racial).
Dex 15 (racial).
Con 10 (racial).
Int 13 (familiar).
Wis 14 (racial).
Cha 6 (racial).
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Finesse (racial bonus feats).
Skills: Listen +5, Spot +7 (racial skills), can use Vaarsuvius's skill ranks (familiar).
Abilities: Racial abilities; familiar abilities.
Items: Bauble (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0679.html), sombrero, fake beard and mustache (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0679.html), wand (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0750.html), bracelet with Orange Prism Ioun Stone (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0967.html), sunglasses (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1119.html).

Kurald Galain

2020-12-05, 12:17 PM

Team Evil

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/trytoguess/PimpedXykon.png Xykon, pseudonym (SOD)
Chaotic (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=13027771&postcount=5) (forum) Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html), Human male lich (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0013.html), Sorcerer 21+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html) (see 429 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html), 442 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html), and 1041 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1041.html)), metamagic specialist (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html)
Str 15+ (forum).
Con n/a (undead).
Int ~15 (no evidence, age and lichdom).
Wis ~15 (no evidence, age and lichdom).
Cha 28+ (casts seven 9th level spells in one combat, SOD).
Age: 111+ (WXP).
Feats: Maximize Spell or Sudden Maximize (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0459.html), Still Spell or Sudden Still (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html), Epic Spellcasting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html), unspecified craft feat (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html), Dodge (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html).
Skills: Bluff (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0106.html), Concentration (required to cast while grappled (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html)), Spellcraft 24+, Knowledge: Arcana 24+ (required for Epic Spellcasting), Reverse Psychology 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0106.html), Speak Language: Draconic (NCPB); +8 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot checks.
Abilities: Fear aura, paralyzing touch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html), turn resistance, damage reduction (SOD), immunity to cold, electricity (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html), polymorph, and mind-affecting attacks (all lich abilities).
Items: Soul gem (SOD), Ring of Positive Plane Protection (SOD), Serini's diary (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0195.html), Widescreen crystal ball (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0376.html), Teevo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0415.html), crown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html) that radiates evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0202.html), Dorukan's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html) headband (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0484.html), unspecified item that gives fire immunity (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html), Ring of Protection that gives deflection bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html), unspecified item that boosts Spellcraft, bunch of scrolls (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html), Boots of Freedom of Movement (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1041.html).
Spells: Animate Dead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0037.html), Animate Dead Animal (SOD), Blackfire (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1227.html), Burning Hands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0459.html), Cloister (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html), Cloudkill (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Contingency (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Energy Drain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html), Epic Mage Armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Finger of Death (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0430.html), Fireball (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1215.html), Ghostform (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0370.html), Greater Invisibility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html), Greater Shatter (https://www.patreon.com/posts/36596373), Greater Teleport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Invisibility (SOD), Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0037.html), Magic Missile (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0112.html), Mass Hold Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0659.html), Meteor Swarm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html), Otiluke's Resilient Sphere (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Overland Flight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html), Ray of Frost (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0542.html), Soul Bind (SOD), Stoneskin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Superb Dispelling (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html), Symbol of Insanity (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html), Symbol of Pain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html), Telekinesis (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1214.html), Teleport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0192.html), Vampiric Touch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Xykon's Moderately Escapable Forcecage (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0376.html), planar travel spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html), summoning spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html), architecture spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0520.html), and wall-breaking spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0661.html).

Oona
Bugbear female, racial HD 3 / unknown class 3+ (required for Beast Heart) / Beast Heart Adept 9+ (required for yrthak companion).
Str ~14 (no evidence, racial).
Dex 15+ (required for Two-Weapon Fighting).
Con ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Cha ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Feats: Animal Affinity (required for Beast Heart), Track (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1216.html), Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1035.html), Two-Weapon Pounce.
Skills: Handle Animal 8, Knowledge: Arcana 4, Knowledge: Dungeoneering 4 (all required for Beast Heart Adept), Survival (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1216.html).
Abilities: Bugbear racial abilities, Beast Heart Adept class abilities, monstrous companions: Lancer and Greyview (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1037.html)
Items: Mask of Cold Resistance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1039.html), sack of monster parts (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1040.html), Two maces, dagger (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1213.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Redcloak.png Redcloak, pseudonym (SOD)
Lawful (required for Law domain) Evil (SOD), Goblin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0148.html) male, Cleric (SOD) 17+ (required to cast 9th level spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0826.html)).
Str ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Wis 20+ (based on saving throw difficulty class (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html)).
Cha 12+ (required to use Rebuke Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0459.html) four times (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0461.html) per day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0462.html)).
Age: 55+ (WXP), does not age physically (SOD).
Feats: Craft Wondrous Item (Xykon's phylactery in SOD), Extend Spell (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1039.html).
Skills: Diplomacy (SOD), Knowledge: Chemistry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0423.html), Knowledge: Nature (SOD), Speak Language: Goblin (racial), Spellcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html); no Draconic (NCPB).
Abilities: Goblin racial abilities, Rebuke Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0113.html), Command Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html), Destruction domain (required to cast Disintegrate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0480.html)) and Law domain (required to cast Hold Monster, SOD).
Items: Black armor (SOD), The Crimson Mantle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0369.html), backup unholy symbol (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html), Book of Vile Darkness, Fiend Folio, Monster Manual II (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html), eye patch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0701.html), spyglass (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0423.html), 8th level scroll (WXP), Xykon's Phylactery (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0827.html), Arcane half of the Snarl Ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html), Ring of protection from level drain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html), boots.
Spells: Standard cleric list and domain spells, plus Unseal, Greater Obscure Object, Superior Resistance, Hardening (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0831.html).

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/trytoguess/Tsukiko.png Tsukiko (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html))
Neutral Evil (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=15667889&postcount=57) (forum), Human female, Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0420.html): Necromancer (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?p=11637535) (forum) 3+ / Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html) 3+ (required for Mystic Theurge) / Mystic Theurge (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html) 6+, and two more levels of Wizard or Mystic Theurge (required to cast Create Undead).
Int 16+ (required to cast Create Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0708.html) as a wizard).
Wis 15+ (required to cast Flame Strike (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html) as a cleric).
Feats: Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat), Quicken Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0519.html).
Skills: Knowledge: Arcana 6+, Knowledge: Religion 6+ (required for Mystic Theurge (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html)).
Abilities: Rebuke Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html), barred school (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?p=11637535) (forum): Abjuration (by elimination).
Items: Spellbook (wizard feature), item that boosts caster level (to teleport six wights (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0513.html)), unholy symbol (required to cast Flame Strike (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html)), Xykon plushie (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html), Xykon portrait, various books and scrolls, quill (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html).
Spells: Standard cleric list, plus wizard spells Cold Orb (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0522.html), Create Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0708.html), Dominate Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html), Electric Orb (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0518.html), Fire Orb (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0519.html), Fireball (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0518.html), Fly (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html), Invisibility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0518.html), Lesser Acid Orb (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0519.html), Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html), Mind Fog (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html), Shout (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html), Teleport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0513.html), Tsukiko's Amazing Wight-Making Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0516.html) (forum (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=11664910)).

:mitd: Monster In The Darkness
Please see this thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?615971-MitD-XV-The-Other-Dark-One) for details.

The Linear Guild

:nale: Nale (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0913.html))
Non-lawful Evil (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=15364378&postcount=36) (forum), Human male, Fighter / Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) 2+ (required for Evasion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0810.html)) / Sorcerer 8+ (required to cast Dimension Door (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html)); total level 15 (deafened by Holy Word (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0860.html)).
Str 10-11 (same as Elan (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=821955), forum).
Dex 13-17 (same as Elan).
Con same as Elan.
Int 13+ (required for Combat Expertise).
Cha 15+ (required to cast Sending (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0337.html)).
Age: 22 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0258.html) (same as Elan (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html)).
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0361.html).
Skills: Bluff (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html).
Items: Longsword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html), business cards (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0804.html), wand of Enervation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0806.html), Elixirs of Negative Energy Protection (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0906.html).
Spells: Charm Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0383.html), Dimension Door (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html), Expeditious Retreat (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0067.html), Invisibility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0819.html), Prestidigitation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0142.html), Suggestion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html).

https://i.stack.imgur.com/ryRoj.png Hilgya Firehelm & https://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Kudzu_zpspgccwtdp.png Kudzu
Chaotic (required for Chaos domain) Evil (WXP), Dwarf female, Cleric of Loki (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html) 14+ (based on spells cast per day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1149.html)).
Con ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Wis 24+ (based on spells cast per day).
Cha 6+ (can use Turn Undead).
Skills: Speak Language: Dwarven (racial).
Feats: Empower Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1119.html).
Abilities: Dwarf racial abilities (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0076.html), Chaos domain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1117.html), Fire domain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html), Turn Undead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1105.html) (despite evil alignment (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1107.html)).
Items: Horned helmet, armor, shield (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0043.html), holy symbol (required to use rebuke ability (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html)), morningstar, carrying sling (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1105.html), anarchic water (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1109.html), wand of Protection from Law (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1110.html), plate armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1181.html).

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/trytoguess/Leeky.png Leeky Windstaff
Neutral Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0344.html), Gnome male, Druid (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0344.html) 13+ (required to cast Fire Storm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0359.html)).
Str ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Con ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Wis 17+ (required to cast Fire Storm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0359.html)).
Feats: Leadership (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html).
Abilities: Gnome racial abilities, druid class abilities, animal companion: hawk "Kitty" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0346.html) (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0359.html)).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Pompey.png Pompey
Neutral Evil (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=15667889&postcount=57), Half-Elf male, Wizard: Conjurer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0254.html) 5+ (required to cast Still Silent Animate Rope (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0342.html)).
Int 14+ (required to cast four 2nd level (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0350.html) spells per day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0354.html)).
Age: 44+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0258.html).
Feats: Scribe scroll (wizard bonus feat), Silent Spell, Still Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0342.html).
Skills: Knowledge: Arcana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0258.html).
Abilities: Half-elf racial abilities, barred schools: evocation and enchantment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0254.html).
Items: Spellbook (wizard feature).
Spells: Animate Rope (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0342.html), Summon Monster I (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0354.html), Summon Monster II, five unspecified touch-range buff spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0350.html).

:sabine: Sabine
Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0394.html), Succubus (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html) female, Racial hit dice 6 / Level adjustment 6 / Rogue (NCPB) 4+ (at least as high as her personal rival (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html) Haley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0616.html)).
Str 19+ (can carry Nale and Thog (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html)).
Dex ~13 (no evidence, racial).
Con ~13 (no evidence, racial).
Int 9+ (higher than Thog (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html), lower than Nale (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=11883778&postcount=198), forum).
Wis ~14 (no evidence, racial).
Cha ~26 (no evidence, racial).
Age: 2000+ (NCPB).
Abilities: Flight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0377.html), change shape (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0142.html), energy drain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0057.html), charm monster, detect good, detect thoughts, ethereal jaunt, suggestion, greater teleport: self plus 50 pounds of objects (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0804.html), summon demon, damage reduction 10 / cold iron or good (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0849.html), darkvision, electricity and poison immunity, acid cold and fire resistance, spell resistance 18, telepathy, tongues; plane shift 1/day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0380.html) (all racial abilities), rogue class abilities, immune to fatigue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0365.html).
Items: Cellphone (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0903.html)

:thog: Thog
Non-lawful (required for rage (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html)) Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html), Half-Orc male, Fighter 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0064.html) / Barbarian 9+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0396.html) (required to have 3 attacks a round).
Str 22+ (to break down an iron door (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html) while raging).
Con 16+ with Extend Rage feat, or 26+ without (based on rage rounds per day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0808.html)).
Int <8 (racial, dump stat (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html)).
Wis <10 (abysmal will save (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0066.html)).
Cha ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Age: 17+ (WXP).
Feats: Extend Rage (see above), Improved Bull Rush (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0808.html), Power Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0788.html).
Skills: Jump (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0808.html).
Abilities: Dungeoncrasher (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0808.html) (forum (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?p=11982830)), half-orc racial abilities, barbarian class abilities.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Yikyik.png Yikyik (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0063.html))
Chaotic Evil (same as Belkar, DCF), Kobold male, Ranger (DCF).
Str ~6 (no evidence, racial).
Dex 12+ (gets additional attack from Combat Reflexes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0048.html)).
Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Feats: Combat Reflexes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0048.html), Track (ranger bonus feat).
Skills: Speak Language: Draconic (racial).
Abilities: Kobold racial abilities.
Items: Dagger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0048.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Yokyok.png Yokyok (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0357.html))
Kobold male.
Str ~6 (no evidence, racial).
Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Skills: Speak Language: Draconic (racial).
Abilities: Kobold racial abilities.
Items: Rapier (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0348.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Yukyuk2.png Yukyuk (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0848.html))
Kobold male, Ranger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0792.html) 4+ (required for an animal companion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0790.html)) / Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0790.html).
Str ~6 (no evidence, racial).
Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Abilities: Ranger and rogue class abilities, animal companion: riding dog "Sir Scraggly" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0790.html).
Feats: Endurance, Track (ranger bonus feats).
Skills: Speak Language: Draconic (racial).
Abilities: Kobold racial abilities.
Items: Two Crossbows of Quick Loading (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0800.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Zzdtri.png Zz'dtri (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0908.html))
Neutral Evil (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=15667889&postcount=57) (forum), Drow (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html) male, Wizard: Transmuter (DCF) 15 (deafened by Holy Word (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0862.html)).
Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Int 17+ (required to cast Plane Shift (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0802.html)).
Cha ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Feats: Lightning Reflexes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0799.html), Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat), Silent Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html) (forum (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?p=822237)), Boost Spell Resistance, unspecified feat that increases Spell Resistance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0795.html), Empower Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0847.html).
Skills: Speak Language: Drow Sign Language (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0862.html).
Abilities: Spell Resistance 28+ (racial, +4 from feats and an item (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0790.html)); drow racial abilities; barred schools: Enchantment, Necromancy (by elimination).
Items: Spellbook (wizard feature), unspecified item that boosts Spell Resistance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0795.html).
Spells: Baleful Polymorph (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0792.html), Break Enchantment: short version (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0800.html), Dimension Door (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0795.html), Disguise Self (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0789.html), Flesh to Stone (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0053.html), Fly: 3.0 version (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0049.html), Greater Dispel Magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0906.html), Gust of Wind (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0860.html), Locate Object (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0894.html), Magic Circle Against Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0883.html), Phantasmal Killer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0800.html), Planar Binding (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0883.html), Plane Shift (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0802.html), Protection from Energy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0799.html), Scrying (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html), Shield (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html), Teleport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0862.html), Vitriolic Sphere (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0847.html), Wall of Ice (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0057.html), unspecified lightning spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0065.html).

Kurald Galain

2020-12-05, 12:18 PM

The Sapphire Guard

https://i.stack.imgur.com/ziT4b.gif Hinjo
Lawful Good, Human male, Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0409.html) 11+ (based on attacks per round (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0453.html)).
Cha 12+ (required for Lay On Hands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0409.html)).
Age: 24+ (WXP).
Skills: Diplomacy (GDGU), Swim 0 (GDGU).
Abilities: Paladin class abilities, Summon Conscience (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html), paladin mount: dire wolf "Argent" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0432.html).
Items: Cold-iron katana, silvered katana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0588.html); magic boots, cloak and armor (WXP).

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/trytoguess/lien.png Lien
Lawful Good, Human female, Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0479.html) 12+ (higher level than Hinjo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html)).
Str 13+ (required for Cleave).
Int 10+ (good, not dumb (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html)).
Wis 11+ (required to cast spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1042.html)).
Cha 12+ (required for Lay On Hands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0591.html)).
Age: 23+ (younger than Hinjo, GDGU).
Feats: Cleave (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0473.html), Power Attack (prerequisite for Cleave), Weapon Focus: Spear (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0591.html).
Abilities: Paladin class abilities, paladin mount: large shark "Razor" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0479.html).
Items: Spear (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0591.html); magic boots, cloak and armor (WXP); Ring of Waterbreathing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1031.html), crossbow (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1034.html).

:miko: Miko Miyazaki (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html))
Lawful Good, Human female, Monk 2+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html) / Fallen Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0407.html) 10-14 (three main-hand attacks per round (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html), higher level than Hinjo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0409.html), and three smites per day, forum (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=291639&postcount=489)).
Str 13+ (required for Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html)).
Dex 17+ (required for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html)).
Wis 11+ (required to cast Cure Light Wounds in the Miko fight (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?p=291639)).
Cha 12+ (required for Lay On Hands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0219.html)).
Age: 28+ (WXP).
Feats: Cleave (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0461.html), Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (two off-hand attacks per round (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html)), Improved Unarmed Strike (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0461.html), Power Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0374.html), Quick Draw (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0215.html), Stunning Fist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html), Track (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0213.html), Two-Weapon Fighting (prerequisite for ITWF).
Skills: Knowledge: the Planes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0373.html), Knowledge: What The Hell She's Talking About 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0371.html), Spellcraft 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0221.html), Survival 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0213.html).
Abilities: Monk class abilities, unavailable paladin mount: horse "Windstriker" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html).
Items: Magic boots, cloak and armor (WXP); katana, wakizashi (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html).

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/trytoguess/O-Chul.png O-Chul
Lawful Good, Human male, Fighter 8+ / Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html) 3-4 (has Aura of Courage (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0546.html) but no mount (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1034.html)), total level 12+ (higher than Hinjo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html)).
Str 11+ (can carry Vaarsuvius (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0661.html)).
Con ~25 (WXP).
Cha <10 (dump stat (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html)).
Age: 50+ (in GDGU, Hinjo is 15-16 (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?p=23309387) and O-Chul is 42).
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana (GDGU).
Skills: Bluff 0 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html), Diplomacy 2+ (http://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=19163226&postcount=74) (forum), Spellcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Swim (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0542.html).
Items: Protective cloak (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1031.html), go set, spyglass (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1042.html).

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/trytoguess/Shojo.png Shojo (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0407.html))
Chaotic Good (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0410.html), Human male, Aristocrat 14 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0289.html).
Str / Dex / Con ~4 (no evidence, age).
Int / Wis / Cha ~13 (no evidence, age).
Age: 72+ (WXP).
Feats: Improved Paranoia (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0405.html).
Skills: Bluff (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0289.html), Perform (puppetry) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0379.html).

The Vector Legion

https://i.stack.imgur.com/DCpby.png Tarquin
Lawful Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html), Human male Villain (DSTP), level 16+ (unaffected by Holy Word (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0861.html)).
Str 16+ (can carry Nale (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0862.html)).
Dex, Con ~9 (no evidence, age).
Int, Wis ~11 (no evidence, age).
Cha 16+ (higher than Nale, BRITF).
Age: 51+ (adventuring for 35 years (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0854.html)).
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0929.html), Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0861.html).
Skills: Speak Language: Drow Sign Language (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0862.html), Ride (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0851.html), Spellcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0722.html), Spot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0858.html).
Abilities: Evasion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0853.html), Counter Charge, Soaring Throw (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0851.html).
Items: helmet (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0722.html), two Rings of Regeneration (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0762.html), Ring of True Seeing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0819.html), Glamered (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0849.html) plate armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0850.html), mask that says "Nope" on it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0852.html), Extra Strength Keoghtum Ointment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0863.html).

https://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Soul-Muncher_zps9mnpfpuq.png Soul Muncher
Intelligent (BRITF) ki focus (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0861.html) axe.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Jacinda_zps7hwo2mqt.png Jacinda
Evil (forum), Catfolk female.
Items: Dagger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0915.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Kilkil.png Kilkil
Lawful Neutral (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=15667889&postcount=57) (forum), Winged Kobold male, level 6-10 (paralyzed by Holy Word (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0861.html)).
Str ~6 (no evidence, racial).
Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Items: Glasses (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0718.html).
Skills: Speak Language: Draconic (racial).
Abilities: Kobold racial abilities, Flight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0847.html).

https://i.stack.imgur.com/hbvD8.png Laurin Shattersmith
Evil (forum), Human female, Psion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0911.html) 15+ (required to craft a +5 collision weapon (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0960.html)).
Str, Dex, Con ~7 (no evidence, age).
Int 18+ (required to manifest Matter Manipulation).
Wis, Cha ~12 (no evidence, age).
Age: 58+ (forum).
Feats: Craft Psionic Arms and Armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0960.html), Expanded Knowledge x2 (can manifest Clairvoyant Sense, Control Body, and Mind Probe).
Items: Headband (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0758.html), two Ioun Stones (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0935.html).
Powers: Body Adjustment (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html), Clairvoyant Sense (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0945.html), Control Body (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0927.html), Dimension Door (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0931.html), Disintegrate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0914.html), Dispel Psionics (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0929.html), Energy Adaptation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0935.html), Matter Manipulation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0960.html), Mental Disruption (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html), Mind Probe (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0913.html), Telekinetic Force (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0929.html), Wormhole (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html), unspecified attack power (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0925.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Malack.png Malack (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0906.html)), pseudonym (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html)
Lawful (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?339912-Vampire-question-settled&p=17331234) Evil (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=15715754&postcount=56) (forum), Lizardfolk (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) male vampire (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0870.html), Cleric of Nergal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) 12 (required for Craft Staff (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0878.html), but no higher spells (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=15715754&postcount=56), forum).
Str ~18 (no evidence, racial).
Dex ~14 (no evidence, racial).
Con n/a (undead).
Int ~13 (no evidence, racial, age).
Wis 20+ (from spells per day (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=15716359&postcount=751), forum).
Cha ~17 (no evidence, racial, age).
Age: 200+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html).
Feats: Craft Staff (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0878.html), Quicken Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html).
Skills: Speak Language: Draconic (racial), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0849.html).
Abilities: Vampire abilities, Death and Destruction domains (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=15715919&postcount=61) (forum).
Items: Holy Symbol.
Spells: Standard cleric list and domain spells, plus Protection from Daylight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0871.html).

https://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Miron_zpsolsb8sfv.png Miron Shewdanker
Evil (forum), Human male, Wizard 15+ or Sorcerer 16+ (required to cast Horrid Wilting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html)).
Str, Dex ~9 (no evidence, age).
Con 6+ (forum).
Wis ~11 (no evidence, age).
Int or Cha 18+ (required to cast Horrid Wilting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html), depending on his class).
Age: 38+ (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=16361374&postcount=218) (forum).
Spells: Baleful Polymorph (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0926.html), Contingency (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html), Greater Dispel Magic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0925.html), Horrid Wilting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html), Teleport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0928.html), unspecified defensive spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0925.html).

http://i.imgur.com/Uqj3cnA.png ???
We don't seem to know anything about the sixth member of the Vector Legion.

Kurald Galain

2020-12-05, 12:18 PM

The Order of the Scribble

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/SoonKim.png Soon Kim (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html))
Lawful Good, Human male Sacred Watcher (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0459.html), Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) 21+ (Low Epic (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=15415463&postcount=331)).
Str 13+ (required for Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana).
Con n/a (Deathless).
Cha ~14 (no evidence, Sacred Watcher).
Abilities: Flight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0449.html), Paladin class abilities, Sacred Watcher abilities, Deathless abilities.
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html).
Items: Enchanted Armor, Katana (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0449.html).

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd40/rtg0922/OotSSmilies/Dorukan.png Dorukan (deceased and soulbound, SOD)
Neutral Good (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=15667889&postcount=57) (forum), Human male, Wizard 21+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html).
Str/Dex/Con ~4 (no evidence, age).
Int 19+ (required to cast Gate, SOD).
Feats: Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat), Craft Wondrous Item (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html), Epic Spellcasting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html).
Skills: Knowledge: Arcana 24+, Spellcraft 24+ (both required for Epic Spellcasting).
Spells: Arcane Half of the Mystic Gate ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), Cloister (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html), Gate (SOD), Meteor Swarm (SOD), Monster Ward (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html), Prismatic Spray (SOD), Pure Heart Ward (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0057.html), Seal Rift (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), Scrying (SOD), Teleport (SOD), unspecified fire spell (SOD), unspecified summoning spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html).

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u93/Reed_Copperstrand/Girard_new.png Girard Draketooth (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0846.html))
Chaotic Neutral (http://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=19163226&postcount=74) (forum), Black dragon-blooded human (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0842.html) male, Ranger 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0694.html) / Sorcerer 19+ (low epic (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=15415463&postcount=331), forum).
Cha 19+ (required to cast Microcosm).
Feats: Track, Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), no Epic Spellcasting (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=15415463&postcount=331) (forum).
Spells: Microcosm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0886.html), Recorded Message Trap (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0695.html), unspecified illusion spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html).

https://i.stack.imgur.com/UQSbX.gif Kraagor (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html))
Non-lawful, Dwarf male, Barbarian (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html).
Con ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Cha ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Skills: Speak Language: Dwarven (racial).
Items: Axe (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Lirian.png Lirian (deceased and soulbound, SOD)
Neutral Good (forum), Elf female, Druid (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) 21+ (Low Epic, forum).
Dex ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Con ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Wis 19+ (required to cast Shapechange, SOD).
Skills: Speak Language: Druidic (class) and Elven (racial).
Spells: Standard druid list, plus Divine Half of the Mystic Gate ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), Guardian Virus (SOD).

http://dantas.com/giantitp/serini_1228_th.png Serini Toormuck
Halfling female, Rogue 21+ (Low Epic (http://forums.giantitp.com/showpost.php?p=15415463&postcount=331)).
Str ~5 (no evidence, racial, age).
Dex ~9 (no evidence, racial, age).
Con ~7 (no evidence, age).
Int/Wis/Cha ~12 (no evidence, age).
Abilities: Regeneration from troll blood.
Feats: Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1239.html).
Skills: Bluff, Climb (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1241.html), Craft: Alchemy, Use Magic Device.
Items: Shortbow (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), staff, Instant Magic Pot, crossbow, wand of Dimension Door, goggles, pouch (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1229.html), blowgun with poison darts (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1239.html).

Family and other characters

https://i.stack.imgur.com/rMw71.gif Celia
Lawful Good (DSTP), Sylph (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0053.html) female, 6+ HD (required to cast Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0070.html)).
Str 14+ (required to pick up Roy (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0315.html)).
Cha 16+ (required to cast four 3rd level spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0578.html) in a day).
Age: 22+ (WXP).
Abilities: Flight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0053.html), cast sorcerer spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0530.html), shoot lightning out of her fingers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0529.html) (all racial abilities).
Skills: Knowledge Nature (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0540.html), Profession: Lawyer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0269.html), Spellcraft 10+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html).
Items: Cell phone (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0053.html), feeblemind causing blue dress (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0310.html), black eyeliner pencil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0537.html), bedroll (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0573.html).
Spells: Alter Self (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0538.html), Charm Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0530.html), Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0070.html), Fog Cloud or Obscuring Mist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0604.html), no necromancy spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0538.html).

http://dantas.com/giantitp/chuck_0611_th.png Chuck
Nonlawful, Human male Rogue 3+/Wizard 5/Arcane Trickster 1
Int 12+ (required to cast 2nd level spells)
Feats: Scribe scroll (bonus wizard)
Skills: Decipher Script 7+, Disable Device 7+, Escape Artist 7+, Knowledge (arcana) 4+.
Abilities: Sneak Attack +2d6 or more, other Rogue class abilities, Wizard class abilities, Arcane Trickster class abilities
Items: Shortsword (the sword he uses looks shorter than the one used by another character).
Spells: Mage Hand, Bull's Strength, Acid Arrow and Scorching Ray.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Eugene.png Eugene Greenhilt (deceased, OOPC)
Lawful Good (SOD), Human male ghost (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html), Wizard: Illusionist (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0291.html) 11+ (required to cast Permanent Image (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html)).
Str/Dex ~4 (no evidence, age).
Con n/a (undead).
Int 16+ (required to cast Permanent Image (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html)).
Wis ~13 (no evidence, age).
Cha 10+ (6 required to become a ghost (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html), +4 bonus from ghost template).
Age: 81+ (WXP).
Feats: Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat).
Items: Spellbook (wizard feature).
Spells: Birth Control Spell (SOD), Conjure Chair (OOPC), Detect Scrying (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0292.html), Fly (SOD), Invisibility Sphere (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0088.html), Minor Image (OOPC), Permanent Image (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0295.html), Summon Boot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0525.html), Teleport (SOD), unspecified fire spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/DurkonVampire_zps6711c6b8.png Greg (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1030.html) (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1131.html))
Lawful Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0883.html), Dwarf (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0076.html) vampire (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0878.html) male, Cleric of Hel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html) 15 (required to cast Symbol of Death (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1109.html)).
Str 20-25 (same as Durkon; +6 as vampire).
Dex <14 (same as Durkon; +4 as vampire).
Con n/a (undead).
Int ~12 (no evidence; +2 as vampire).
Wis 24-25 (same as Durkon; +2 as vampire).
Cha <14 (same as Durkon; +4 as vampire).
Abilities: Dwarf racial abilities, vampire abilities.
Spells: Standard cleric list, plus Accelerate Vampirization (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1101.html).

https://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/GontorVampire_zpshuuydh50.png Gontor Hammerfalls (deceased)
Evil, Dwarf vampire male, Cleric of Hel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1158.html) 13+ (required to cast Summon Monster VII (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1161.html)).
Con n/a (undead).
Wis 19+ (required to cast Gate from a scroll (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1158.html)).
Skills: Decipher Script, Use Magic Device (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1158.html).
Abilities: Dwarf racial abilities, vampire abilities.
Items: Armor, belt, scrolls (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1158.html).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/IanGladiator.png Ian Starshine, aka Red (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0758.html)
Chaotic Neutral (http://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=15667889&postcount=57) (forum), Human male, Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0938.html).
Str, Con ~7 (no evidence, age)
Int, Wis, Cha ~12 (no evidence, age).
Age: 60+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0915.html).
Skills: Bluff (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0008.html), Knowledge: Local (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0758.html), Move Silently (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0815.html), Not Dying (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0746.html), Open Lock (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0784.html).
Abilities: Rogue class abilities.
Items: Signed amnesty papers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0815.html), Elan's plan to take down Tarquin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0941.html), dagger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0942.html).

http://dantas.com/giantitp/jenny_0622_th.png Jenny
Chaotic neutral, Human female Rogue 1+/Bard 3+/Sorcerer 1+
Cha 11+ (required to cast Hideous Laughter as a Bard. If she had cast as a Sorcerer, it would need to be 12+)
Skills: Perform (?*) 6+ (required to use Inspire Competence)
Abilities: Bard, rogue, and sorcerer class abilities.
Items: Harp.
Spells: Hideous Laughter.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/XGShF.png Julia Greenhilt
True Neutral (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0343.html), Human female, Wizard 3+ (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0485.html).
Int 15+ (required to cast Sending (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0337.html)).
Age: 17 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1193.html).
Feats: Scribe Scroll (wizard bonus feat).
Skills: Spellcraft (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1192.html).
Spells: Feather Fall (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0485.html), Improved Sending (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1192.html), Magic Missile (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0354.html), Mask Scent (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0838.html).

Logann Brightstone
Dwarf male, Fighter 6+ (based on attacks per round (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1171.html)).
Con ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Int 13+ (required for Improved Disarm).
Cha ~8 (no evidence, racial).
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1171.html).
Abilities: Dwarf racial abilities.
Items: Armor, Dwarven Waraxe.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/7z1rQ.png Qarr
Lawful (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html) Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html), Imp (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html) male, Sorcerer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0625.html) 8-10 (required to cast Charm Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0559.html), and to get only two Scorching Rays (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0797.html)).
Dex ~17 (no evidence, racial).
Int 12+ (based on Zz'dtri's level).
Wis ~12 (no evidence, racial).
Cha 14+ (required to cast Charm Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0559.html)).
Feats: Dodge, Weapon Finesse (racial bonus feats).
Abilities: Flight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0792.html), poison, detect good, detect magic, invisibility: self (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0624.html), suggestion, commune, alternate form, damage reduction 5/good or silver (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html), darkvision, fast healing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0627.html), poison immunity, fire resistance; greater teleport: self plus 50 pounds of objects (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0630.html), plane shift (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html), summon devil (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html) (all racial abilities).
Spells: Charm Monster (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0559.html), Extraplanar Phone Connection (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0903.html), Lesser Telepathic Bond (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0503.html), Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0797.html), Scorching Ray (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0792.html).

Right-Eye (pseudonym; deceased, SOD)
True Neutral (http://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=15667889&postcount=57), Goblin male, Rogue
Str ~2 (no evidence, racial, age)
Dex ~6 (no evidence, racial, age)
Con ~4 (no evidence, age)
Int 15+ (can speak common before aging; age)
Wis ~13 (no evidence, age)
Cha ~11 (no evidence, racial, age)
Age: 40+ (venerable)
Feats: Martial Weapon Proficiency: greataxe
Skills: Craft: carpentry, Diplomacy 0, Listen 2+
Abilities: Rogue class abilities.
Items: Eyepatch, greataxe, deck of cards, hooded cloak, Deathstrike Bracers, 3 credit cards, scroll of Regeneration.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Samantha.png Samantha (deceased (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0189.html))
Evil (NCPB), Human female, Sorcerer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0166.html) 12 (required to cast exactly three 6th level spells in a day (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html)).
Cha 16-21 (required to cast Chain Lightning (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0166.html), but has no bonus spells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html) at level 6). Also, her charisma is higher than Haley's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0161.html).
Age: 18 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0159.html).
Feats: Maximize Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html), no Silent Spell, nor Still Spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0169.html).
Spells: Chain Lightning (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0166.html), Fireball (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0166.html), Fly (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0160.html), Hold Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0166.html), Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html), Magic Missile (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html), Protection From Arrows (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0168.html).

Previous Threads:
XVII - When you Wish upon a Stat (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?607385-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XVII-When-you-Wish-upon-a-Stat)
XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?579856-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XVI-These-Characters-May-Now-Drive-the-Plot)
XV - What's the Damage of a Thrown Pineapple? (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?545476-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XV-What-s-the-Damage-of-a-Thrown-Pineapple)
XIV - We are the Geek Pantheon (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?485983-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XIV-We-are-the-Geek-Pantheon)
XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended. (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?392439-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XIII-Comic-As-Written-not-Comic-As-Intended)
XII - Even Nerds Call Us Nerds (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?329816-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XII-Even-Nerds-Call-Us-Nerds)
XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?311888-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XI-Can-Now-Argue-Three-Times-Per-Page)
X: deals +1d6 thread damage (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?282328-Class-and-Level-Geekery-X-deals-1d6-thread-damage)
IX: the thread levels up again! (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?253978-Class-and-Level-Geekery-IX-the-thread-levels-up-again!)
VIII (spoilers ahoy!) (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?230935-Class-and-Level-Geekery-VIII-(spoilers-ahoy!))
VII (some [spoilers]) (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?210883-Class-and-Level-Geekery-VII-(some-spoilers-))
VI (some [spoilers]) (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?131219-Class-and-Level-Geekery-VI-(some-spoilers-))
V (some [spoilers]) (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?125953-Class-and-Level-Geekery-V-(some-spoilers-))
IV (some [spoiler]s) (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?95005-Class-and-Level-Geekery-IV-(some-spoiler-s))
III (some [spoiler]s) (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?61354-Class-and-Level-Geekery-III-(some-spoiler-s))
II (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?4912-Class-and-Level-Geekery-II)
Class and Level Geekery (http://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?5124-Class-and-Level-Geekery)

dancrilis

2020-12-05, 12:27 PM

I suppose this would be the place to begin the discussion now.

We are using Pompey being able to untie himself and Sabine as evidence of silent and still spell, however as animate rope has a duration of 1 round per level and he could have cast it to tie them up when Roy announced his presence and then untie them a few rounds later when Roy was in front of them it seems that his usage is not conclusive of his level or feat selection.

I don’t know that spell well, but it’s one of those spells you can keep controlling after the initial casting like, say, Telekinesis? If so I’d agree with you.

Effectively yes - you cast it on a rope and then you can manipulate that rope for 1 round per level - so if Pompey were level 3 he could manipulate it for 18 seconds, round one to tie the rope, round two to do nothing and round three to untie the rope.
This is a very tight timeframe but not impossible.

Seperately I also just realised that Sabine might have untied herself so I should not have mentioned her initially in the above inner quote.

Quartz

2020-12-05, 01:12 PM

We are using Pompey being able to untie himself and Sabine as evidence of silent and still spell, however as animate rope has a duration of 1 round per level and he could have cast it to tie them up when Roy announced his presence and then untie them a few rounds later when Roy was in front of them it seems that his usage is not conclusive of his level or feat selection.

Roy didn't hear him so I agree that that strip is not evidence of Still Spell but I do think it's evidence of Silent Spell.

MultitudeMan

2020-12-05, 01:18 PM

Hey, Kurald Galain, can you put Heroism (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1221.html) on Elan's spell list?

dancrilis

2020-12-05, 01:26 PM

Roy didn't hear him so I agree that that strip is not evidence of Still Spell but I do think it's evidence of Silent Spell.

If he cast when Roy entered and announced his presence then I see no reason for why Roy who is listed as having a low listen would hear him (particularly if he was trying to be quite).

Saint-Just

2020-12-05, 01:28 PM

So, is this thread a counterpart to "What D&D world or setting would you choose to live in?". I assume this one want us to imagine how we would fare in D&D settings as lvl 1 Experts.

Ephemera

2020-12-05, 01:29 PM

And here's the expertly written new expertise thread for experts: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?623429-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XVIII-Everyone-s-an-Expert

Hehe, my evil plan succeeded and by spending two threads flogging my proposed thread title I have made it the easiest answer and gotten it through. :smallcool:

Now that I've named a thread, I have accomplished my entire extremely modest bucket list of forum accomplishments and I should just retire. But that would require the ability to actually keep my mouth shut, so no chance of that...

Ephemera

2020-12-05, 01:31 PM

So, is this thread a counterpart to "What D&D world or setting would you choose to live in?". I assume this one want us to imagine how we would fare in D&D settings as lvl 1 Experts.

No, clearly if we were going there, the relevant question for this crowd would be how powerful a setting could you rule as a level 20 Expert, outlawing multiclassing of any sort (or at least using PC classes) but allowing for all other forms of munchkin in your build...but that would probably take its own thread to answer, as I'm sure someone could come up with a good answer...

Quartz

2020-12-05, 05:02 PM

If he cast when Roy entered and announced his presence then I see no reason for why Roy who is listed as having a low listen would hear him (particularly if he was trying to be quite).

Does that fit in with the Verbal component? After all, he heard the muffled Julia.

Gurgeh

2020-12-05, 07:49 PM

Just going to be That Guy and bring up Oona's levels again; she shouldn't need 3+ levels of the unknown class for Beast Heart Adept. If the class has Handle Animal as a class skill then she only needs two levels (since her max skill rank will be 8 at character level 5), and if it doesn't have it as a class skill then she needs a whopping ten levels in order to raise the maximum skill rank (character level 13 + 3 = 16 max rank for class skills, 8 max for non-class skills), since Handle Animal isn't a racial skill for Bugbears.

So she needs either 2+ or 10+ levels in this unknown class - 3+ isn't really relevant.

Wildstag

2020-12-05, 09:55 PM

So, is this thread a counterpart to "What D&D world or setting would you choose to live in?". I assume this one want us to imagine how we would fare in D&D settings as lvl 1 Experts.

Per my job description and skills of the trade, I'd actually put myself as a Ranger instead, which is probably worse than some niche Expert build.

On a serious note, and to build off of the assumption that Oona has Ranger levels that lead into her Beast Heart Adept levels, we should open up PHB2 for the list of sourcebooks, as it would account for her having an effect that does the effect of Two-Weapon Pounce (which by all accounts it looks like she could have used in 1213). She would almost certainly qualify for it and we see exactly two "whunks", so if she had a normal Pounce it would almost certainly be more than just two attacks.

P.S. Even if her base class isn't Ranger, then she'd still have more of a claim to that feat, since she'd need the Dex to even take TWF.

Bilbo Baggins

2020-12-05, 11:20 PM

Does anyone know how Roy's Spellsplinter Maneuver works, mechanically? I'm guessing that's been discussed here before and I wonder what the conclusions were, if any.

Wildstag

2020-12-06, 01:25 AM

Does anyone know how Roy's Spellsplinter Maneuver works, mechanically? I'm guessing that's been discussed here before and I wonder what the conclusions were, if any.

I have seen it called "Totally not Mage Slayer" in these threads, but it also doesn't really do everything that feat does (since it seems the opponent doesn't automatically know they can't cast defensively).

danielxcutter

2020-12-06, 01:40 AM

Interestingly, Spellcasting Harrier(essentially a strict upgrade aside from the fact that it's not the prerequisite for Pierce Magical Protection/Concealment) also has a "the caster knows they'll get a sword to the face if they blow the check" line, presumably to prevent the user to get free shots against every caster-type they fight for the first time.

Mechanical-wise it's not too hard to explain why this is so, but I do suppose it'd be more likely for that to catch the opponent off guard at least the first time. Doesn't mean Rich thinks so, though, or even if he's even aware that such feats even exist. Or if the Spellsplinter Maneuver works like that.

dancrilis

2020-12-06, 03:44 AM

Does that fit in with the Verbal component? After all, he heard the muffled Julia.

It seems to yes.

Effectively Roy would needed to have rolled better then Pompeys's move silently to hear him cast if he was trying to cast quitely - seemingly, now that seems to be an accurate reading of the rules, but one I am personally dubious about as such we will see about it without move silently.

DC 15 people whispering, +1 per 10 feet of distance.

Effectively if Roy was 10 to 20 feet away from Pompey as he whispered his casting he would need a listen check of 16 to hear him but even then he would only hear what was being said if he beat the DC by 10 or more - so a DC of 26.
If Pompey was not whispering that goes down by 15, so DC 1 to hear him but DC 11 to know what was being said.

Reasonable enough for Roy to fail - so no need for silent spell (or still spell, or level 5).

Just going to be That Guy and bring up Oona's levels again; she shouldn't need 3+ levels of the unknown class for Beast Heart Adept. If the class has Handle Animal as a class skill then she only needs two levels (since her max skill rank will be 8 at character level 5), and if it doesn't have it as a class skill then she needs a whopping ten levels in order to raise the maximum skill rank (character level 13 + 3 = 16 max rank for class skills, 8 max for non-class skills), since Handle Animal isn't a racial skill for Bugbears.

So she needs either 2+ or 10+ levels in this unknown class - 3+ isn't really relevant.

This seems fine - except that she doesn't seem to need Beast Heart Adept at all.
Both Worgs and Yrthaks are intelligent creatures and you don't need a class to form an alliance with an intelligent creature - and I don't think she has demonstrated any other ability from the class (and if she was 9th level she would have a third monsterous companion).

Also we have her Dex at 15+ however if she is a Ranger (as many people feel is likely even if unproven) she wouldn't need it for Two-Weapon Fighting so perhaps we should remove that.

Yanisa

2020-12-06, 04:29 AM

It seems to yes.

Effectively Roy would needed to have rolled better then Pompeys's move silently to hear him cast if he was trying to cast quitely - seemingly, now that seems to be an accurate reading of the rules, but one I am personally dubious about as such we will see about it without move silently.

DC 15 people whispering, +1 per 10 feet of distance.

Effectively if Roy was 10 to 20 feet away from Pompey as he whispered his casting he would need a listen check of 16 to hear him but even then he would only hear what was being said if he beat the DC by 10 or more - so a DC of 26.
If Pompey was not whispering that goes down by 15, so DC 1 to hear him but DC 11 to know what was being said.

Reasonable enough for Roy to fail - so no need for silent spell (or still spell, or level 5).

Casting spells with a verbal component must be in a firm voice, and characters gagged cannot cast spells with a verbal component. Page 140 of my copy of the PHB, because I don't think that rule is on the SRD.

Which prevent both Pompey casting while wearing a gag, and whispering the spell in general.

dancrilis

2020-12-06, 05:11 AM

Casting spells with a verbal component must be in a firm voice, and characters gagged cannot cast spells with a verbal component. Page 140 of my copy of the PHB, because I don't think that rule is on the SRD.

Which prevent both Pompey casting while wearing a gag, and whispering the spell in general.

If you review 1221 it seems that the spells are being cast in a smaller font then might normally be used which matchs them trying to remain quite (it is clear, but clear does not have to mean loud) - but ignoring that Pompey could cast the spell, puts on the gag then has the spell activate to tie him up wait for Roy to appear and untie him.

Yanisa

2020-12-06, 05:34 AM

If you review 1221 it seems that the spells are being cast in a smaller font then might normally be used which matchs them trying to remain quite (it is clear, but clear does not have to mean loud) - but ignoring that Pompey could cast the spell, puts on the gag then has the spell activate to tie him up wait for Roy to appear and untie him.

Actual whispering in the comic is depicted differently, with a different type of balloon. See #1217 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1217.html) for a recent example.
I do am curious for more instances of the smaller font being used. It seems to be generally used for jokes and remarks than main dialogue or spell casting. But perhaps it has been used before as a quieter voice.

Also I feel you generally cannot hold spells in DnD. The idea of preparing spells taking up an hour each morning is the "pre-casting" phase already, if I remember correctly. I know that spells with charges can be hold (in particular touch attacks), but other spells? Skimming trough the PHB I don't see anything like that. So where does your suggestion come from?

dancrilis

2020-12-06, 05:43 AM

Actual whispering in the comic is depicted differently, with a different type of balloon. See #1217 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1217.html) for a recent example.
I do am curious for more instances of the smaller font being used. It seems to be generally used for jokes and remarks than main dialogue or spell casting. But perhaps it has been used before as a quieter voice.

Fair enough - but still Roy would need to pass a listen check to know what was being said, and that it assuming that Pompey did all of it in fairly short order rather then before Roy entered the building.

Also I feel you generally cannot hold spells in DnD. The idea of preparing spells taking up an hour each morning is the "pre-casting" phase already, if I remember correctly. I know that spells with charges can be hold (in particular touch attacks), but other spells? Skimming trough the PHB I don't see anything like that. So where does your suggestion come from?
I am not sure what you mean or what you think I meant.

Animate Rope works for multiple rounds.
Round 1: Cast spell (standard action), pull down gag (free action), have the rope tie you up (move action)
Round 2: Do nothing.
Round 3: Have rope untie you.

Does that explain better?

danielxcutter

2020-12-06, 05:59 AM

Also who’s to say that the gag was properly tied? It’d probably need a Spot or Search check to notice that and Roy might not even have made one to do so.

Yanisa

2020-12-06, 07:01 AM

Fair enough - but still Roy would need to pass a listen check to know what was being said, and that it assuming that Pompey did all of it in fairly short order rather then before Roy entered the building.

I am not sure what you mean or what you think I meant.

Animate Rope works for multiple rounds.
Round 1: Cast spell (standard action), pull down gag (free action), have the rope tie you up (move action)
Round 2: Do nothing.
Round 3: Have rope untie you.

Does that explain better?

Yeah, I misread you, my bad.

I am kind of hang up on the fact we see the "spell being cast" aura, hence my misreading. Spells already in effect in general don't get that flair. But perhaps activating a dormant/earlier cast spell might also get an aura, like a magic item, but I can't find a good one to one comparison at the moment.

Also who’s to say that the gag was properly tied? It’d probably need a Spot or Search check to notice that and Roy might not even have made one to do so.

Still doesn't really help with the fact he needs a "firm voice" clause. Besides the fact if you could maintain a firm voice with a loosely tied cloth in front of your mouth, Roy in general shouldn't fail a listen when standing next to Pompey. Unless we assume Roy's dialogue distracts him so much he would fail a really easy listen check. (Plausible because he also ignores Julia.)

dancrilis

2020-12-06, 07:11 AM

I am kind of hang up on the fact we see the "spell being cast" aura, hence my misreading. Spells already in effect in general don't get that flair. But perhaps activating a dormant/earlier cast spell might also get an aura, like a magic item, but I can't find a good one to one comparison at the moment.

Xykon recently might be an example here panel 11 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1214.html) and here panel 20 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1216.html) he is presumedly using telekinisis to hold the statue head and to open the door respectively.

Yanisa

2020-12-06, 07:36 AM

Xykon recently might be an example here panel 11 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1214.html) and here panel 20 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1216.html) he is presumedly using telekinisis to hold the statue head and to open the door respectively.

If that spell is telekinesis, it must have been casted twice. Telekinesis ends when you cease concentration, and maintaining concentration is a standard action. We see Xykon casting spells between those two instances.

dancrilis

2020-12-06, 08:08 AM

If that spell is telekinesis, it must have been casted twice. Telekinesis ends when you cease concentration, and maintaining concentration is a standard action. We see Xykon casting spells between those two instances.

Fair enough - I did spend some time finding ways around that (which do exist) but I suppose they would be beside the point.

danielxcutter

2020-12-06, 08:35 AM

dancrilis

2020-12-06, 08:55 AM

Are any of those likely to be applicable to Xykon? I'm personally of the opinion that either it's not Telekinesis or the Giant is playing loose and fast with the rules, but that's not really relevant to this thread anyways and there's probably something that provides the displayed effect anyways.

The two feats that seem suitable are 'Familiar Concentration' and 'Extraordinary Concentration'.

The issues with them are that 'Extraordinary Concentration' is poorly written and that 'Familiar Concentration' requires a familiar (which we have not seen Xykon possess).

If we needed a feat for him to account for this I would say 'Extraordinary Concentration' works - but we would have complaints on that it is poorly written.

danielxcutter

2020-12-06, 09:05 AM

The two feats that seem suitable are 'Familiar Concentration' and 'Extraordinary Concentration'.

The issues with them are that 'Extraordinary Concentration' is poorly written and that 'Familiar Concentration' requires a familiar (which we have not seen Xykon possess).

If we needed a feat for him to account for this I would say 'Extraordinary Concentration' works - but we would have complaints on that it is poorly written.

I don't really see how Extraordinary Concentration is poorly written that much, though I did have to pause for a sec while reading it. There's a skill trick that could work, also - Swift Concentration.

Honestly I doubt Rich really knows about either but for the purposes of this thread...

Yanisa

2020-12-06, 09:23 AM

Besides the concentration, sustained telekinesis only works for 1 object. There is no mention of switching objects. (Only the violent thrust allows multiple objects to be affected.) Also, for perfect comparison we need a spell at allows directing an active spell, like animate rope allows.

What could help was a list of spells cast in the comic, does anyone have a list? I vaguely recall something on this forum, but I can't find it.

dancrilis

2020-12-06, 10:17 AM

I don't really see how Extraordinary Concentration is poorly written that much, though I did have to pause for a sec while reading it. There's a skill trick that could work, also - Swift Concentration.

The problem with Extraordinary Concentration it seems intended to allow multiple spells to be cast, however:

You can’t cast a spell while concentrating on another one.

Source (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#duration).

The reason you cannot cast spells while concentrating on one has nothing to do with the standard action of maintaining a spell - as such in the written word of Extraordinary Concentration it doesn't actually allow you to cast spells while concentrating on another one - it is clearly intended to (Swift Concentration does not seem to be) but it actually doesn't do it (at my reading of them).

Besides the concentration, sustained telekinesis only works for 1 object. There is no mention of switching objects. (Only the violent thrust allows multiple objects to be affected.) Also, for perfect comparison we need a spell at allows directing an active spell, like animate rope allows.
I am unsure about this the spell mentions 'You move objects or creatures by concentrating on them' so if you concentrate on a different object it stands to reason you can move that one, just like you would (on my reading) not be limited to tripping the same creature every round using the combat maneuver version.

danielxcutter

2020-12-06, 10:22 AM

I mean okay, maybe, but that still does work for this situation, as does the skill trick option.

Also random thought: aren't there optional spell components that give a caster bonus to certain kinds of spells? Maybe Tsukiko used one that applies for Conjuration(teleportation) spells or something?

locksmith of lo

2020-12-06, 02:41 PM

i was just reading the page for lich (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm) and it states that
"Each lich must make its own phylactery, which requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat" and i was wondering why xykon is listed as having only an
"unspecified craft feat" ?

i am assuming this has been argued before, but why it would be so? :smallconfused:

dancrilis

2020-12-06, 03:25 PM

i was just reading the page for lich (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm) and it states that and i was wondering why xykon is listed as having only an

i am assuming this has been argued before, but why it would be so? :smallconfused:

While purely on RAW Xykon should have Craft Wonderous Item, it seems to have been actually Redcloak who crafted it this is why Redcloak is listed as having 'Craft Wondrous Item (Xykon's phylactery in SOD)'.

I am dubious about it a ruling but not bothered enough to argue it.

Seperately we know Xykon crafts items on occassion so he has some craft feat.

MultitudeMan

2020-12-07, 12:22 AM

Xykon recently might be an example here panel 11 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1214.html) and here panel 20 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1216.html) he is presumedly using Telekinesis to hold the statue head and to open the door respectively.

Since we haven't got even near a full list of cantrips for Xykon, isn't it more likely that he's using Telekinesis for the head, and Open/Close for the door?

danielxcutter

2020-12-07, 12:28 AM

Also, would Mage Hand work for either of those instances?

Yanisa

2020-12-07, 12:54 AM

Mage Hand has a weight limit of 5 pounds. Open/Close has a limit of 30 pounds.

Problem is we don't know the exact material or weight from these objects. I assume stone* and wood** based on appearances, so the statue head would weight more then 5, and the door could be less then 30 pounds. So mage hand is out, but Open/Close could work.

*The statue head is quite bouncy (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1214.html) for a solid stone object.
**We know the stone around the door is "multidimensional stone (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1040.html)", perhaps something similar is used for the door, but of a woodlike material.

(P.S. Telekinesis has a limit of 375 pounds, in case you wondered.)

danielxcutter

2020-12-07, 01:19 AM

Huh, I wonder what's stopping Xykon from just Ghostforming through the dungeons, actually. Something like at least half the Monster Manual can't even do anything to incorporeal creatures, even the mighty Tarrasque.

b_jonas

2020-12-07, 08:51 AM

About what spell Xykon is using to lift the statue head in #1214 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1214.html) and the door in #1216, we've been discussing that on and off for like five pages in the previous thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?607385&p=24705285#post24705285). I don't think we got a consensus.

But I totally didn't notice back than that there was a specific level 0 sorcerer spell called Open/Close (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/openClose.htm) and suggested other spells instead (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?607385&p=24740535#post24740535). Yanisa: thank you for pointing that out.

Emanick

2020-12-07, 02:22 PM

While purely on RAW Xykon should have Craft Wonderous Item, it seems to have been actually Redcloak who crafted it this is why Redcloak is listed as having 'Craft Wondrous Item (Xykon's phylactery in SOD)'.

I am dubious about it a ruling but not bothered enough to argue it.

Seperately we know Xykon crafts items on occassion so he has some craft feat.

""Each lich must make its own phylactery, which requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat" is pretty explicit. Redcloak clearly helped - perhaps lowering the DC, or issuing instructions on which steps to take - but by the rules, Xykon had to have the Craft Wondrous Item feat, and had to be involved enough in the process to be considered to be "making" his phylactery.

I think we should list Craft Wondrous Item as a feat Xykon has. There is no clear evidence that the rules weren't being followed in this instance, and thus we should assume they were in effect. Plus, common sense suggests that Xykon has the feat, given how much time he spends crafting magic items.

dancrilis

2020-12-07, 02:51 PM

""Each lich must make its own phylactery, which requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat" is pretty explicit. Redcloak clearly helped - perhaps lowering the DC, or issuing instructions on which steps to take - but by the rules, Xykon had to have the Craft Wondrous Item feat, and had to be involved enough in the process to be considered to be "making" his phylactery.

I think we should list Craft Wondrous Item as a feat Xykon has. There is no clear evidence that the rules weren't being followed in this instance, and thus we should assume they were in effect. Plus, common sense suggests that Xykon has the feat, given how much time he spends crafting magic items.

I have no issues with this - and Redcloak has not been shown crafting any other items to justify the feat.

danielxcutter

2020-12-07, 08:30 PM

I believe you can provide spells and stuff to aid with crafting items, such as the cleric helping the party wizard to craft a Ring of Protection +1(as Shield of Faith isn't a wizard spell). Could be something like that - Redcloak fills Xykon in on the required knowledge, Xykon does the actual crafting.

Reboot

2020-12-09, 01:06 AM

Thing is, while the SRD is kinda vague, it does require Caster Level 3 to craft a wonderous item. And Xykon was unable to cast even a cantrip at the time (it was *why* RC proposed making him a lich).

I'm pretty sure that by RAI, at least, you should not be able to craft if your spellcasting is suppressed.

danielxcutter

2020-12-09, 01:30 AM

Having a caster level is not the same as being able to cast spells to be fair. If you’ve blown all your slots you have a caster level but can’t cast.

Emanick

2020-12-09, 03:19 AM

Having a caster level is not the same as being able to cast spells to be fair. If you’ve blown all your slots you have a caster level but can’t cast.

Yeah, this. Xykon didn't cease to be a sorcerer with caster level 25, or whatever - he simply stopped being able to cast any spells.

The SRD is about as explicit as can be when it says "Each lich must make its own phylactery, which requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat." Either the rules are being ignored - which this thread assumes is not the case whenever possible - or Xykon is making use of his Craft Wondrous Item feat to craft his own phylactery, with Redcloak helping him, presumably both giving him instructions and providing spellcasting services when necessary.

There's definitely some RAI fuzziness here, since nowhere in the rules does it say that a lich can receive help from an outside source, but none of that requires us to assume that the rules aren't actually in effect.

hamishspence

2020-12-09, 04:57 AM

Some magic items require you to expend spell slots or prepared spells every day while making them. But a phylactery does not appear to be one of these:

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm

InvisibleBison

2020-12-09, 11:21 AM

I don't think it's actually possible to cooperatively craft a lich's phylactery. The MIC rules for cooperative crafting say that each character involved has to supply "some of the prerequisites". But a phylactery only has one prerequisite, Craft Wondrous Item. Thus, if the rules are being followed in SoD, Redcloak is simply providing information and instructions to Xykon, but isn't actually participating in the crafting of the phylactery. Unless there are other rules elsewhere about cooperative item crafting that disagree with and supersede those in the MIC, Craft Wondrous Item should be added to Xykon's entry and removed from Redcloak's.

Rogar Demonblud

2020-12-09, 11:59 AM

Really the CWI requirement is just a hack to explain how a lich has a phylactery. To the best of my knowledge no ruleset before or after spelled out the needs, just said a lich had one.

That said, I don't see a reason not to strip CWI from Redcloak.

DaOldeWolf

2020-12-09, 11:32 PM

I was checking the thread and I noticed that the item that Belkar is using cover the team´s tracks hasnt been added to the list of items he is carrying. Is there a reason? :smallconfused:

I am going to leave the real experts with telling the name of the item since my knowledge still remains pathfinder mainly. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Also, should the rat head be added to Haley´s inventory?

Emanick

2020-12-10, 12:33 AM

Also, should the rat head be added to Haley´s inventory?

Good catch. The rat head (its name is Quippie, according to an Utterly Dwarfed bonus strip) should be added to Haley's inventory.

Kornaki

2020-12-10, 11:15 PM

Although, is it about to leave her inventory?

Rogar Demonblud

2020-12-11, 12:28 AM

No, she specifically stated she's picking it back up.

Reboot

2020-12-11, 01:53 PM

Having a caster level is not the same as being able to cast spells to be fair. If you’ve blown all your slots you have a caster level but can’t cast.

But...

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm
Each lich must make its own phylactery, which requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells...

Quartz

2020-12-11, 02:21 PM

But...

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm
Each lich must make its own phylactery, which requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells...

Xykon was still able to cast spells from scrolls, wasn't he?

danielxcutter

2020-12-11, 09:48 PM

Was he? Honestly don’t know, don’t have SoD.

Emanick

2020-12-11, 10:47 PM

Was he? Honestly don’t know, don’t have SoD.

There's no direct evidence from SOD, but after reading the scroll use rules (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm), it does appear that Xykon would still be able to use scrolls.

I think we're getting a bit too nitpicky, though, and although being too nitpicky is arguably the entire purpose of this thread, in this case I don't think it would serve the purpose of nailing down character info very well, since the way Xykon and Redcloak collaborated on making the former a lich was obviously houseruled and probably wouldn't stand up to strict scrutiny. I think we should just stick with listing the basic requirements that lichdom requires of Xykon and leave it at that.

Metastachydium

2020-12-13, 06:17 AM

danielxcutter

2020-12-13, 08:50 AM

Good question actually. Maybe because she’s considered too minor a character?

Metastachydium

2020-12-13, 09:04 AM

Probably. Although I'd quite definitely rank her above Logann, Chuck, Jenny and freakin' Yokyok.

danielxcutter

2020-12-13, 09:13 AM

Probably. Although I'd quite definitely rank her above Logann, Chuck, Jenny and freakin' Yokyok.

Fair. Seriously, I barely remember half of those names...

Metastachydium

2020-12-13, 10:10 AM

I know, right?
#JusticeForVeldrina!

Riftwolf

2020-12-13, 12:37 PM

Possible typo: Gontor Hammerfalls entry only reads 'Hammerfall', and he should be listed as deceased.

I'd also argue Veldrina not having an entry while Jenny does is a shocking oversight.

dancrilis

2020-12-13, 01:27 PM

Probably. Although I'd quite definitely rank her above Logann, Chuck, Jenny and freakin' Yokyok.

Yokyok was an Linear Guild member there is a lower bar for entry for the others that is likely fair - and on that note I think Grewview should have an entry (we have one for Blackwing and Mr. Scruffy after all).

For that matter to have an adult son Yikyik would seem to have been 12+ from Races of the Dragon, which is listed as one of our sourcebooks for this topic.

Yanisa

2020-12-13, 04:44 PM

(Just wondering: why doesn't Veldrina have an entry yet? We know her sex (female), race (elf), class (favored soul), level (14+ to be capable of casting 7th level spells), her Cha score (17+ to be capable of casting 7th level spells), we have a list of earthly possessions (armour, boots, holy symbol, scroll of Wind Walk), we know she has ranks in Knowledge (religion) (to know as much about vampires as she does (v. negative particle vawe interference (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0987.html) etc. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0986.html))) and we know she knows Sending (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1023.html).)

From the FAQ

Q: Which characters are included in this thread?
(1) All named members of the Order, Team Evil, the Linear Guild, the Order of the Scribble, and the Vector Legion.
(2) Any frequently occurring character, as noted in the Character Appearances thread. Note that this includes Samantha: it was easier to be a common character back when the comic was shorter. We don't unlist characters just because they've died.
(3) Family members of the main characters, as long as we have something to write about them.

Veldrina currently has 14(ish) appearances. The current listing for frequent* is 30-60 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?611203-Number-of-Character-Appearances-VII-To-Absent-Friends). So that's the cold hard logic rule based reason she isn't included.

*Frequent characters has been renamed to secondary characters, but never updated in the FAQ of this thread.

Edit; I just realized I compared Veldrina to all strips so far, in stead of the strips when she appeared (like Samantha and Jenny). For fairness: Back in 2012 the Frequent character (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?231084) was also 30-60, Veldrina doesn't appear on that list, so even before she entered the comic, the minimal threshold was 30 appearances. Which she never made.

Besides that, I don't have a problem with listing Veldrina, but I do get why there is a line drawn, and why she is excluded.

Rogar Demonblud

2020-12-14, 12:21 AM

I think we also excluded her because as the Patreon cameo she's actually somebody's character.

Metastachydium

2020-12-14, 12:04 PM

From the FAQ

Veldrina currently has 14(ish) appearances. The current listing for frequent* is 30-60 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?611203-Number-of-Character-Appearances-VII-To-Absent-Friends). So that's the cold hard logic rule based reason she isn't included.

*Frequent characters has been renamed to secondary characters, but never updated in the FAQ of this thread.

Edit; I just realized I compared Veldrina to all strips so far, in stead of the strips when she appeared (like Samantha and Jenny). For fairness: Back in 2012 the Frequent character (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?231084) was also 30-60, Veldrina doesn't appear on that list, so even before she entered the comic, the minimal threshold was 30 appearances. Which she never made.

Besides that, I don't have a problem with listing Veldrina, but I do get why there is a line drawn, and why she is excluded.

The problem is that the line is not drawn with sufficient consistency: Logann (apparently) only has some 4 more appearences than Veldrina (and much less impact), while Chuck and Jenny lag way behind her.

I think we also excluded her because as the Patreon cameo she's actually somebody's character.

That's a fair point, but I don't think there is a rule against including such characters (mostly since there are no other characters like this).

Rogar Demonblud

2020-12-14, 12:37 PM

Logann is included in item 4: Family members.

Metastachydium

2020-12-14, 12:40 PM

Technically, he's listed under family and other characters, as are Chuck and Jenny.

Yanisa

2020-12-14, 02:03 PM

Technically, he's listed under family and other characters, as are Chuck and Jenny.

Chuck and Jenny are a bit weirder (unless you see Jenny as a significant other for Belkar), but like the Samantha example in the FAQ: It was easier to become a more frequent character earlier in the comic. For example when they started to appear, Bozzok himself also only had 12 appearances (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?90191-Number-of-Character-Appearances-III). (Also the rules might have been different back then, when there were less characters with 5+ appearances.)

Another factor, I am guessing, is that we didn't know the impact these character would have on the story. In contrast the moment Veldrina was introduced we knew she was a cameo character who would only be very shortly in the comic.

Besides that, one could argue that the Thief Guild, even with small appearance, is a major of Haley's background, including being a large part of the prequel-book. We could even call them her "family", but that is a argument more for Bozzok then any others. (The real question is, why isn't Bozzok listed, but two throw-away henchpersons did make the cut. I might dive in some old discussions later.)

I get why these things have happened, but now years later they stick out. Veldrina will have the same faith when the comic starts to reach numbers as 1500 and possibly 1800, many years from now.

Schroeswald

2020-12-14, 03:22 PM

Kornaki

2020-12-14, 04:48 PM

It seems like there should at least be one link for Chuck and Jenny so you can know who the heck they are.

Yanisa

2020-12-15, 01:06 AM

The actual answer for why Chuck and Jenny were added isn’t the Samantha loophole, it’s that a bit back people felt like putting together some stats for the less important characters to see if we could and we found a decently sized stat block on them. This was like last thread if I remember correctly, if we had enough stats on Veldrina I think we’d probably add her.

I stand corrected, must have missed that in the last thread.

Anyhow, Metastachydium put up stats for Veldrina (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?623429-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XVIII-Everyone-s-an-Expert/page2&p=24842664#post24842664), that is what sparked the questions.

Wildstag

2020-12-15, 12:11 PM

Yanisa

2020-12-15, 02:38 PM

Were Veldrina to have stats, I feel like that block is missing a rather important feat, but then we'd have to consider that Wild Cohort is in play rather than Veldrina just having immense ranks in Handle Animal and a pet Tiger that really shouldn't be able to be a pet.

There is in D&D no real difference* between a cat and tiger when it comes to handle animal. If we assume the tiger was domesticated by another person*, it would only be a DC 10 in order to command the tiger. We also see she can't always control her tiger (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0989.html). In order to fail she can't have more then a +8 bonus. Which means with 17 charisma she cannot have more then 5 ranks in handle animal.

Also wild cohort is not needed. What the feat does is increase the stats of the tiger (we lack evidence for that) and makes handle animal easier (while we know Veldrina sucks at handle animal). If we would assume wild cohort, she cannot have more then 3 ranks in handle animal.

*Rearing a wild tiger would be a DC 23 and the only time the species of the animal effects the outcome because the DC is based on hit die. Also this requires at least a 1 rank of Handle animal. Assuming extreme luck, anyone with 14 or more charisma could domestic a kitty tiger. Valdrina could have trained her own tiger, and still be able to fail the basic DC 10 to make the tiger follow commands. She could also have the wild cohort feat. 1 rank of handle animal, +2 from wild cohort and +3 from charisma still means she can fail a dc 10 check.

Wildstag

2020-12-19, 09:08 AM

danielxcutter

2020-12-19, 09:14 AM

Gonna need another page to help determine if the party is in another dimension or if Team Evil is in another dimension and OotS isn’t, or if both are. At least this confirms Team Evil are trash explorers. They never look for traps, perhaps just expecting damage traps and not harmless traps.

To be fair, they're literally incapable of looking for traps aside from using Detect Magic-type spells, and even that can be fooled.

RMS Oceanic

2020-12-19, 09:37 AM

Gonna need another page to help determine if the party is in another dimension or if Team Evil is in another dimension and OotS isn’t, or if both are. At least this confirms Team Evil are trash explorers. They never look for traps, perhaps just expecting damage traps and not harmless traps.

Dunno about another dimension, that would break Telepathic Bond. I think it was a random Gate-type effect and they're still on the material plane.

hamishspence

2020-12-19, 09:39 AM

The Order can be on the Material Plane, with the Gate, but with Team Evil having been teleported to a demiplane full of monsters, and no gate.

danielxcutter

2020-12-19, 09:52 AM

Dunno about another dimension, that would break Telepathic Bond. I think it was a random Gate-type effect and they're still on the material plane.

Gate explicitly only allows travel between planes, though the Wormhole power that Laurin used or a variation of Teleportation Circle might work.

The Order can be on the Material Plane, with the Gate, but with Team Evil having been teleported to a demiplane full of monsters, and no gate.

It's possible. Making several dozen demiplanes would be pretty expensive, though.

hamishspence

2020-12-19, 09:57 AM

It's possible. Making several dozen demiplanes would be pretty expensive, though.

Maybe the big secret is that all the doors lead to only one demiplane, which refreshes itself with monsters each time it's visited?

danielxcutter

2020-12-19, 10:01 AM

Maybe the big secret is that all the doors lead to only one demiplane, which refreshes itself with monsters each time it's visited?

Considering that Oona says they usually take a few months, if the demiplane dungeon delving theory is correct then it's likely one with multiple areas that each trap is connected to.

Metastachydium

2020-12-19, 02:57 PM

It's possible. Making several dozen demiplanes would be pretty expensive, though.

Wait a second Making demiplanes?

hamishspence

2020-12-19, 03:28 PM

Wait a second Making demiplanes?

Yup - all it takes is a 9th Level spell, cast by either an arcane caster or a cleric with the Creation domain:

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm

There's a psychic power too- but psychic power users are implied to be somewhat rare in OOTS, though present.

Yanisa

2020-12-19, 03:31 PM

danielxcutter

2020-12-19, 08:24 PM

It's closer to cheap than expensive too. No material component cost and 5000 XP. About 4 encounters of CR 17 if my math is correct. The real cost is the time it takes.

Once or twice could be okay. Once for each door is... less so.

Emanick

2020-12-19, 10:49 PM

Once or twice could be okay. Once for each door is... less so.

It's probably one big demiplane. The stone separating each passageway is multidimensional, so it should be able to exist across the planes. In theory, anyway - I'm pretty sure Rich made up multidimensional stone, so it can do whatever he wants it to.

Yanisa

2020-12-20, 02:20 AM

Once or twice could be okay. Once for each door is... less so.

Yeah, I also didn't realize that Serine probably hired a wizard. How big are the chance she had another high level sorcerer/wizard friend after the Order of the Scribble drama. Hiring a level 17 caster with a spell of 5000 xp costs 26.530 gold pieces. (5 gold per XP, and 90 gp per caster level.) if there are a thousand doors, the price becomes more than 26 million.

Then again, if there are thousand doors, they also need a thousand days of adventures to gain enough xp. And a CR 17 combat gives 36.000 GP, so 36 million gold. But the wizard who is fighting to gain XP also wants another share of that.

And a thousand castings of Genesis will take 7000 days. ~8000 days is about 22 years. Add another half year because it takes 180 days before a plane reaches full size. (In fact if it's all the same place, it takes a half year per Genesis because of that growth rate. A thousand castings become 500 years.) And we need to deal with the whole building of the dungeons too. And the fact all demiplanes are circles, but all dungeons sound like linear hallways. Maybe some dungeons are shared on the same demiplane, but at some point I need to give up the math.

___

On a completely different note. Is the fact Haley discovered a magic trap in #1219 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1219.html) enough for us to determine a minimum amount of ranks for search? A magic trap has a DC of 25 + spelllevel. Most people compare this to teleportation circle (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportationCircle.htm), which is 9th level with a DC of 34. However, it doesn't like like a teleportation circle and we only can assume the lowest possible numbers. So I am going to compare with the level 7 spell, greater teleport (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportGreater.htm), or DC 32.

Haley has a int of 12+. No room for skill feats (in fact she has more feats then possible for her level?) and earlier remarks (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0840.html) shows she has ranks, but doesn't see search as a priority. At level 15, max ranks would be 18, but to hit DC 32 she would only need 11 ranks (+1 int) on rolling a twenty.

I would put it a low 10+ ranks, because Haley might have 14 int (Bonus languages, plural (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0247.html)), but no more (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0031.html) than that.

MultitudeMan

2020-12-20, 07:50 AM

Haley has a int of 12+. No room for skill feats (in fact she has more feats then possible for her level?) and earlier remarks (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0840.html) shows she has ranks, but doesn't see search as a priority.

I don't think there's a issue with the number of Haley's feats. Her entry lists her with 9 feats known so far. She gets two at level 1 (as human), 5 from levels 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15, and she can take additional feats instead of rogue special abilities (which she qualified for at levels 10, 13 and 16, and I don't she's demonstrated any of those so far) so we've actually got leeway for one more feat or special ability at her present level before she breaks RAW.

Yanisa

2020-12-20, 08:24 AM

I don't think there's a issue with the number of Haley's feats. Her entry lists her with 9 feats known so far. She gets two at level 1 (as human), 5 from levels 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15, and she can take additional feats instead of rogue special abilities (which she qualified for at levels 10, 13 and 16, and I don't she's demonstrated any of those so far) so we've actually got leeway for one more feat or special ability at her present level before she breaks RAW.

The way I read it is that you can take any Rogue Special Abilities once unless the ability itself allows multiples, like Skill Mastery does. (Which is a common rule in 3.5) So you can only get one feat from the rogue special ability. Also I am far more used to pathfinder's rogue talents then 3.5's rogue special abilities, which specifically don't allow multiple feats (sort off). Hence I felt the number of feats of Haley was too much.

At the same time yeah, the wording a bit more vague ("in place of a special ability)" and the feat option isn't alphabetized. I can see multiple feats as a possible reading, but I can't find any clarification online on the intend or how people use it. (People in general like the abilities and don't take the bonus feat.) I suspect this discussion already has been had ages ago, so don't let me start it again.

If do take in account a skill feat, she can have Skill Focus for a +3, which lowers the minimum ranks to 7.

danielxcutter

2020-12-20, 08:25 AM

I forget, is Improved Uncanny Dodge one of the special Rogue abilities or is that one automatic with levels?

Yanisa

2020-12-20, 08:29 AM

I forget, is Improved Uncanny Dodge one of the special Rogue abilities or is that one automatic with levels?

Improved Uncanny Dodge comes from levels.

Improved Evasion comes from the special ability list. Which made me doubt all my years of 3.5 knowledge because in pathfinder that one also comes with leveling.

Emanick

2020-12-20, 12:29 PM

The way I read it is that you can take any Rogue Special Abilities once unless the ability itself allows multiples, like Skill Mastery does. (Which is a common rule in 3.5) So you can only get one feat from the rogue special ability.

For what it's worth, I've never read it that way. I've always interpreted it as allowing you to take a feat instead of a special ability each time. It would be rather strange if you could only take a feat instead of a rogue special ability *once.*

So count me as one of the people who doesn't have an issue with the number of feats Haley has listed.

Ephemera

2020-12-20, 02:34 PM

Maybe the big secret is that all the doors lead to only one demiplane, which refreshes itself with monsters each time it's visited?

I think this might work. I was going to say that Genesis only creates 180 ft of radius per casting, which isn't that big, but it's not that small either (roughly 100k square feet). But by RAW, each additional casting of Genesis expands the radius of the demiplane by 180 feet. Not creates another 180 ft radius circle (presumably we're talking about a sphere anyway?), which means that it wouldn't take all that many castings to create a pretty big plane.

I'm not even sure this is a mistake in the rules, it might have been intentional but the second casting makes it 4x as big, the third 9x, the 4th 16x, so if you did, say, 10 castings, you now have a demiplane that is 1800 ft in radius, roughly a 10 million square foot circle at it's widest point, or 18 billion cubic feet, roughly the interior volume of 100 aircraft carriers, which is enough to keep our adventurers busy for a while. The bigger issue is probably how to form the dungeons in the demiplane, and whether it's in any way easier than just making them somewhere else on the material plan.

This comes down to the question of whether it's easier to make a permanent teleportation trap or a gate one, and I haven't a clue. But given that Gate is a 9th level spell to begin with (and doesn't last long), I think the gates might actually be a bigger issue than the creation of the demiplane, whether it's all one big demi-plane or lots of smaller ones.

I like the idea, story-wise, a lot, I'm just not sure how I feel about the mechanics.

Metastachydium

2020-12-20, 02:57 PM

Yup - all it takes is a 9th Level spell, cast by either an arcane caster or a cleric with the Creation domain:

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm

There's a psychic power too- but psychic power users are implied to be somewhat rare in OOTS, though present.

What the rot! That's crazy.

I think this might work. I was going to say that Genesis only creates 180 ft of radius per casting, which isn't that big, but it's not that small either (roughly 100k square feet). But by RAW, each additional casting of Genesis expands the radius of the demiplane by 180 feet. Not creates another 180 ft radius circle (presumably we're talking about a sphere anyway?), which means that it wouldn't take all that many castings to create a pretty big plane.

I'm not even sure this is a mistake in the rules, it might have been intentional but the second casting makes it 4x as big, the third 9x, the 4th 16x, so if you did, say, 10 castings, you now have a demiplane that is 1800 ft in radius, roughly a 10 million square foot circle at it's widest point, or 18 billion cubic feet, roughly the interior volume of 100 aircraft carriers, which is enough to keep our adventurers busy for a while. The bigger issue is probably how to form the dungeons in the demiplane, and whether it's in any way easier than just making them somewhere else on the material plan.

This comes down to the question of whether it's easier to make a permanent teleportation trap or a gate one, and I haven't a clue. But given that Gate is a 9th level spell to begin with (and doesn't last long), I think the gates might actually be a bigger issue than the creation of the demiplane, whether it's all one big demi-plane or lots of smaller ones.

I like the idea, story-wise, a lot, I'm just not sure how I feel about the mechanics.

(Story-wise I still cannot quite see who could have cost all those 9th level spells for Serini.)

Peelee

2020-12-20, 03:41 PM

What the rot! That's crazy.

Well, it seems like it starts off with a 0 foot radius to start with and only grows to the full 180' a half year after you cast it. Which is still pretty dang small - a little less than 3 acres, or 1 and a third football pitches, or 2 american football fields.

Not very big at all. A nice place for a trans-dimensional private home, though.

hamishspence

2020-12-20, 05:21 PM

Well, it seems like it starts off with a 0 foot radius to start with and only grows to the full 180' a half year after you cast it. Which is still pretty dang small - a little less than 3 acres, or 1 and a third football pitches, or 2 american football fields.

Not very big at all. A nice place for a trans-dimensional private home, though.

The psionic version never completely stops growing, though the rate of growth slows to 50 ft per year.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/genesis.htm

Peelee

2020-12-20, 05:32 PM

The psionic version never completely stops growing, though the rate of growth slows to 50 ft per year.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/genesis.htm

And a fifth the XP cost. Seems like they bent over backwards to make the psionic version strictly better.

Quartz

2020-12-20, 05:52 PM

Gate explicitly only allows travel between planes, though the Wormhole power that Laurin used or a variation of Teleportation Circle might work.

How about plain old Plane Shift?

b_jonas

2020-12-20, 06:13 PM

I think creating extradimensional space would be cheaper than creating an entire plane. There are spells that do that, such as Rope Trick and Mage's Magnificient Mansion, though those don't last long enough. There are also items like Bag of Holding and Portable Hole that contain such extradimensional space permanently, but the space is too small. (I suspect that a Bottle of Air holds a large extradimensional space in it, but the rules don't explicitly say this.) If the traps led to an extradimensional space, rather than a separate plane, that would avoid the possible problem with Blackwing's telepathy.

danielxcutter

2020-12-20, 10:15 PM

How about plain old Plane Shift?

Plane Shift still only sends you to another plane. It’d be easier to ad-hoc it from preexisting spells like Teleportation Circle than to force the spells you suggest to send them to somewhere that’s also on the Material. Maybe the dungeons are on another plane, but if not it’s likely not a Gate effect.

Yanisa

2020-12-21, 02:00 AM

How about plain old Plane Shift?

Plane Shift also never brings you to your exact location, so you can't use it to travel between set points. Like a door and the entrance of a dungeon.
Our only options is something similar to Greater Teleport/Teleport Circle for travel between points on the material plane. Or something similar to Gate for travel between the material plane and a plane full of dungeons.

I wonder if we even learn the ability that does it beyond "teleportation" or "plane travel".

danielxcutter

2020-12-21, 02:02 AM

Plane Shift also never brings you to your exact location, so you can't use it to travel between set points. Like a door and the entrance of a dungeon.
Our only options is something similar to Greater Teleport/Teleport Circle for travel between points on the material plane. Or something similar to Gate for travel between the material plane and a plane full of dungeons.

I wonder if we even learn the ability that does it beyond "teleportation" or "plane travel".

Greater Plane Shift is a thing, but it's not in Core.

Yanisa

2020-12-21, 02:19 AM

Greater Plane Shift is a thing, but it's not in Core.

Ah spell companion. But you need to have visited the place before, so it doesn't really work for a group of strangers walking into the dungeon for the first time.

Emanick

2020-12-21, 02:54 AM

(Story-wise I still cannot quite see who could have cost all those 9th level spells for Serini.)

It gets simpler if you assume that there are a few scattered epic or other high-level characters on other planes, which is the case in a number of settings. They're unlikely to get involved in the Material Plane too much - they have bigger fish to fry, or else they simply don't much care about the affairs of mortals - but an epic character could conceivably hire them to cast some spells, for the right price.

Additionally, it's not too crazy to think that there might be some archmages in places like Cliffport or the Elven Lands who are capable of casting 9th level spells. We've seen nothing to suggest otherwise.

danielxcutter

2020-12-21, 03:05 AM

Personally I think it's entirely possible that she asked Dorukan and/or Girard for help with her dungeon before her Gate was finished; pretty sure the oath could be interpreted in some way for that to work. Besides, it's somewhat implied that the main schism was between Soon and the arcane casters, and it's looking like the only one who gave a wererat's arse about the oath in the first place was the paladin.

Wildstag

2020-12-21, 12:37 PM

Besides, it's somewhat implied that the main schism was between Soon and the arcane casters, and it's looking like the only one who gave a wererat's arse about the oath in the first place was the paladin.

With all the "behind his back" shenanigans and the general apathy for the loss of his wife, every reread makes it more clear to me that Soon was probably the only actually decent person in the group, or at least the only person that someone would actually want to be around for longer than 10 minutes.

Maybe the elf was decent enough, but they still all lied to Soon's face about honoring that oath, so she's a jerk by association.

On a more related note, I'd figure whatever spell effect to be in play to be a custom spell, but those aren't really good for arguments in here. I'd think a more specific form of Genesis that doesn't create a spherical 180-foot radius realm but rather a "room by room" system. I'm not versed enough with casting to know whether there's actually a spell like that though.

On a side note, a teleportation effect would also explain a safety feature for the monster-wranglers; they open the cage, the monster walks past the portal, and now it can't immediately turn around and attack the wranglers.

dancrilis

2020-12-21, 01:02 PM

(Story-wise I still cannot quite see who could have cost all those 9th level spells for Serini.)

She could likely do it herself via the appraise skill (assuming they were cast via a common, rare or exotic item).

Rogar Demonblud

2020-12-21, 01:06 PM

The factions look to have been Soon (1), Lirian and Dorukan (2) and Girard and Serini (3). And even that last one is based mostly on Serini crushing on Girard; they could easily be split.

Metastachydium

2020-12-21, 02:11 PM

She could likely do it herself via the appraise skill (assuming they were cast via a common, rare or exotic item).

Appraise lets one cast 9th level spells? (Also, what does a common Genesis item even look like?)

dancrilis

2020-12-21, 02:24 PM

Appraise lets one cast 9th level spells?
No but it will let you cost the items.

danielxcutter

2020-12-21, 09:39 PM

With all the "behind his back" shenanigans and the general apathy for the loss of his wife, every reread makes it more clear to me that Soon was probably the only actually decent person in the group, or at least the only person that someone would actually want to be around for longer than 10 minutes.

The factions look to have been Soon (1), Lirian and Dorukan (2) and Girard and Serini (3). And even that last one is based mostly on Serini crushing on Girard; they could easily be split.

Personally I always read it as Soon (1), Serini (2), and the other (3), actually! There’s nothing that outright states that Dorukan and Girard were opposed to each other, after all. Maybe there was no love lost between them but Dorukan never installed a trap designed to blow up Sorcerers or anything.(Or paladins, for that matter.)

It does seem like Soon was a lot like how Roy acted just after he heard of Durkon’s death - no nonsense, surly, stick-up-his-ass. And he did act a bit dismissive towards Dorukan when he suggested epic spells, and the Sapphire Guard is proof that being a Paladin and being an absolute arse aren’t mutually exclusive.

It seems like Serini and Kraagor were the only ones holding the team together, though. Girard said that it should have been Soon who died, Dorukan accused him of “not caring if his allies died as long as he could avenge his wife”, and the girls obviously mourned Kraagor’s death. And everyone respected Serini enough to follow her suggestion at least outwardly.

Also it’s likely that they tolerated each other’s guts enough to make the Gates, so maybe getting a bit of magical assistance before they were finished wasn’t out of the question.

I wonder if Serini still stayed in touch with Girard, or if Girard only set the Illusion Bomb trap to notify her and there hadn’t been any other communication between them since.

ByzantiumBhuka

2020-12-21, 09:50 PM

danielxcutter

2020-12-21, 09:55 PM

A quick question, and sorry if it's already been asked: Do we know now that Durkon has a bonus 7th level spell slot because of the second Mass Death Ward he cast (implying either a 14th level of Cleric or 24+ Wis)? Or could he have just cast Death Ward twice?

Level 14 would give him two slots and yes he could have cast Death Ward twice on him and Minrah, so either works.

Ghosty

2020-12-22, 10:45 AM

What the rot! That's crazy.

(Story-wise I still cannot quite see who could have cost all those 9th level spells for Serini.)

Girard? From the statements he made (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0695.html)in the booby trap to try and kill Soon, it sounded like he and Serini were staying at least cordial, if not actively collaborating.

EDIT, and I see it's been mentioned. Another vote on Serini and Girard overtly working together. And I think Dorukan probably helped some too.

I expect we'll find out when the Order talks to her.

danielxcutter

2020-12-23, 04:29 AM

Kornaki

2020-12-23, 10:06 PM

Girard? From the statements he made (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0695.html)in the booby trap to try and kill Soon, it sounded like he and Serini were staying at least cordial, if not actively collaborating.

EDIT, and I see it's been mentioned. Another vote on Serini and Girard overtly working together. And I think Dorukan probably helped some too.

I expect we'll find out when the Order talks to her.

I feel like people have been speculating for ages about Serini being alive, but I forgot that she has potentially been alerted to the exact plot for like, half of the comic.

MultitudeMan

2020-12-24, 01:15 AM

I forget, did we ever address Redcloak using Unholy Blight in 1212? Substitute Domain could explain it, and since it lasts so long it's possible Redcloak was still under the effect and just swapped to the Evil domain so he could avoid catching Xykon in the crossfire.

An interesting issue with the spell Substitute Domain is that it messes up a lot of the ability of this thread to determine a cleric's actual domains. Does Redcloak actually have the domains Law and Destruction, or was he just using Substitute Domain to gain Hold Monster for SOD and Disintegrate for the Battle of Azure City? Does Durkon actually have the Good domain, or was he using Substitute Domain every time he cast Holy Smite and Holy Word? Same for Hilgya and Chaos Hammer.

Of course, start pulling on those threads, and the tapestry starts to unravel. How do we absolutely know that Redcloak is lawful, except that he cast Hold Monster, which requires the Law domain (and likewise with Hilgya and Chaos Hammer)? The problem worsens with Durkon, because we used his caster level when he cast Holy Word (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0859.html) to determine an awful lot of character levels (Belkar, Nale, Zz'dtri, and Tarquin by my count).

The can of worms is officially opened.

danielxcutter

2020-12-24, 01:44 AM

An interesting issue with the spell Substitute Domain is that it messes up a lot of the ability of this thread to determine a cleric's actual domains. Does Redcloak actually have the domains Law and Destruction, or was he just using Substitute Domain to gain Hold Monster for SOD and Disintegrate for the Battle of Azure City? Does Durkon actually have the Good domain, or was he using Substitute Domain every time he cast Holy Smite and Holy Word? Same for Hilgya and Chaos Hammer.

Of course, start pulling on those threads, and the tapestry starts to unravel. How do we absolutely know that Redcloak is lawful, except that he cast Hold Monster, which requires the Law domain (and likewise with Hilgya and Chaos Hammer)? The problem worsens with Durkon, because we used his caster level when he cast Holy Word (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0859.html) to determine an awful lot of character levels (Belkar, Nale, Zz'dtri, and Tarquin by my count).

The can of worms is officially opened.

You need to be [alignment] to get the [alignment] domain anyways, I believe. And Substitute Domain also grants the domain power as well.

Rogar Demonblud

2020-12-24, 12:57 PM

Plus Hilgya actually references using anarchic water for the scrying IIRC, so she'd be Chaotic on that score.

Quartz

2020-12-24, 03:48 PM

Could the domain be granted by the Red Cloak itself?

I believe we've had this discussion before. Or something similar to it. I remember making the point that in Rolemaster there were items which give you access to particular spell lists, and it's trivial to transfer that idea to D&D.

Yendor

2020-12-24, 03:57 PM

Personally I always read it as Soon (1), Serini (2), and the other (3), actually! There’s nothing that outright states that Dorukan and Girard were opposed to each other, after all. Maybe there was no love lost between them but Dorukan never installed a trap designed to blow up Sorcerers or anything.(Or paladins, for that matter.)

I've said before that there's no way Girard would have made the mistake Lirian did in her defenses: Paladins are immune to magical diseases.

danielxcutter

2020-12-24, 08:55 PM

I've said before that there's no way Girard would have made the mistake Lirian did in her defenses: Paladins are immune to magical diseases.

Girard bet that a Paladin would break his oath. He doesn’t know jack about them.

Emanick

2020-12-24, 10:49 PM

Girard bet that a Paladin would break his oath. He doesn’t know jack about them.

I think Girard would be aware of most mechanical traits a paladin has (he certainly spent a long time adventuring alongside one), but it's likely that in almost every situation in which his bias could plausibly affect his judgment about paladins, it did. So he would accept that Soon was given magical disease immunity by the dumb animal gods he worshipped, but he might not accept that, say, paladins are genuinely honorable people and tend to be honest and loyal (except in situations where it was a bad thing, maybe).

Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug, and can make people of otherwise reasonable intelligence believe very stupid things. I think that's what was going on with Girard's weird beliefs about paladins. Confirmation bias will absolutely allow you to absorb information that you have no motive to disbelieve, though. So I imagine that Girard, who seems less "stupid" than "biased," would likely know all about Soon's purely mechanical abilities.

danielxcutter

2020-12-24, 11:18 PM

I think Girard would be aware of most mechanical traits a paladin has (he certainly spent a long time adventuring alongside one), but it's likely that in almost every situation in which his bias could plausibly affect his judgment about paladins, it did. So he would accept that Soon was given magical disease immunity by the dumb animal gods he worshipped, but he might not accept that, say, paladins are genuinely honorable people and tend to be honest and loyal (except in situations where it was a bad thing, maybe).

Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug, and can make people of otherwise reasonable intelligence believe very stupid things. I think that's what was going on with Girard's weird beliefs about paladins. Confirmation bias will absolutely allow you to absorb information that you have no motive to disbelieve, though. So I imagine that Girard, who seems less "stupid" than "biased," would likely know all about Soon's purely mechanical abilities.

Yeah... I remember seeing someone wonder if Girard thought that Soon's order to close the rift while he and Kraagor were still in range was why Kraagor died - because he thought Soon's paladin saves meant it'd be likely for him to survive. That's BS, but then again this is Girard.

MultitudeMan

2020-12-31, 07:07 AM

I note that we still have Roy listed as having Endurance, due to sleeping in armor without getting fatigued (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0162.html), but this is neither RAW nor (I think) RAI for heavy armor, which Roy has been established as wearing several times now (panel 9 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0249.html) and panel 2 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0902.html)), and his armor has not changed in appearance sufficiently to suggest he's upgraded from medium to heavy armor between 162 and 249. May I suggest a Restful Crystal (MIC) instead, which works for heavy armor?

Also, researching this point has alerted me to an issue in strip 5 where Roy carries Durkon so they can run faster, but if Roy is in heavy armor, they both have base movement speed of 20. Does this mean Roy has the Run feat, or is there another RAW solution? Conveniently, I've just freed up a feat slot for this sup-par feat by eliminating the need for another! I'm assuming Roy has a STR of at least 20, and possibly 22, by this point (rolled an 18, increased at levels 4 and 8, possible Manual of Gainful Exercise), so I don't think carrying Durkon and his armor and other gear would have caused additional encumbrance problems.

danielxcutter

2020-12-31, 07:18 AM

Well that's weird. Maybe it's mithral plate?

MultitudeMan

2020-12-31, 07:21 AM

Well that's weird. Maybe it's mithral plate?

I also just found the Quickness armor enchantment, but are there any other realistic options (i.e. not specific to a particular world, or non-human race etc.)?

Emanick

2020-12-31, 12:01 PM

Well that's weird. Maybe it's mithral plate?

Since Roy explicitly says he wears heavy armor in Book 5, and mithral armor would make it medium, I don't think so.

I think giving Roy the Run feat would probably make the most sense?

Wildstag

2020-12-31, 02:17 PM

Mithral would only make it "treated" as medium for many mechanic interactions, but you would still need the feat "Armor Proficiency (Heavy)" to use it. Mithral Full Plate is still a heavy armor, it is merely counted as medium for encumbrance rules and for the Endurance feat (and probably a few other interactions I can't immediately recall).

danielxcutter

2020-12-31, 09:01 PM

Yanisa

2020-12-31, 09:31 PM

I think that’s only Pathfinder, but I could be wrong.

Hard to say, as far as I recall Pathfinder clarified the rule (to what they felt the rule already was) but both that reading and others readings are kind of possible.

Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light.
From the special materials page (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm).

Ignoring "other limitations" is a messy statement. Is what feat you need an "other limitation"? Or perhaps it refers to the penalties one gets when wearing an armor and not having the right feat?

Edit: Also the statement "Heavy armors are treated as medium" is one many use to argue the medium armor feat is enough for mithril heavy armor.

I note that we still have Roy listed as having Endurance, due to sleeping in armor without getting fatigued (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0162.html), but this is neither RAW nor (I think) RAI for heavy armor, which Roy has been established as wearing several times now (panel 9 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0249.html) and panel 2 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0902.html)), and his armor has not changed in appearance sufficiently to suggest he's upgraded from medium to heavy armor between 162 and 249. May I suggest a Restful Crystal (MIC) instead, which works for heavy armor?

Could you clarify what the problem is? If you mean endurance isn't the only way to prevent fatigue, then I get you. But RAW doesn't prevent sleeping in heavy armor, and it clearly does give fatigue when you sleep in heavy armor.

Sleeping in Armor
A character who sleeps in medium or heavy armor is automatically fatigued the next day. He or she takes a -2 penalty on Strength and Dexterity and can’t charge or run. Sleeping in light armor does not cause fatigue.
From the armor page (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm).

danielxcutter

2020-12-31, 09:43 PM

Wasn't Roy pulling an all-nighter most of the time anyways because he didn't trust half the party? Probably not that relevant but...

Jasdoif

2020-12-31, 11:53 PM

Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light.
From the special materials page (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm).

Ignoring "other limitations" is a messy statement. Is what feat you need an "other limitation"? Or perhaps it refers to the penalties one gets when wearing an armor and not having the right feat?

Edit: Also the statement "Heavy armors are treated as medium" is one many use to argue the medium armor feat is enough for mithril heavy armor.For the record:

Is a character proficient with light armor, such as a rogue, considered to be proficient with mithral breastplate? What about a character proficient with medium armor, such as a barbarian—is he considered proficient with mithral full plate armor?

The description of mithral on page 284 of the DMG is less precise than it could be in defining how it interacts with armor proficiency rules. The simplest answer—and the one that the Sage expects most players and DMs use—is that mithral armor is treated as one category lighter for all purposes, including proficiency. This isn’t exactly what the DMG says, but it’s a reasonable interpretation of the intent of the rule (and it’s supported by a number of precedents, including the descriptions of various specific mithral armors described on page 220 of the DMG and a variety of NPC stat blocks).

Thus, a ranger or rogue could wear a mithral breastplate without suffering a nonproficiency penalty (since it’s treated as light armor), and each could use any ability dependent on wearing light or no armor (such as evasion or the ranger’s combat style). A barbarian could wear mithral full plate armor without suffering a nonproficiency penalty (since it’s treated as medium armor), and he could use any ability dependent on wearing medium or lighter armor (such as fast movement).

The same would be true of any other special material that uses the same or similar language as mithral (such as darkleaf, on page 120 of the ECS).

MultitudeMan

2021-01-01, 02:17 AM

Could you clarify what the problem is? If you mean endurance isn't the only way to prevent fatigue, then I get you. But RAW doesn't prevent sleeping in heavy armor, and it clearly does give fatigue when you sleep in heavy armor.

I think the issue I was raising is that Endurance only prevents fatigue when sleeping in medium armor, not heavy, so would actually make no difference at all to Roy's sleeping-while-armored fatigue, if Roy has in fact been wearing heavy armor all this time.

I would also say that if mithral effectively makes heavy armor into medium armor in all mechanical respects, then Roy wouldn't refer to his armor as heavy, so I still think a Restful Crystal makes more sense. I don't think we've listed MIC as a source yet, so that may be controversial to some to add it on this basis.

danielxcutter

2021-01-01, 02:32 AM

MultitudeMan

2021-01-01, 04:43 AM

I think it makes enough sense for him to not have Endurance listed, but do we know that he wasn't exhausted after sleeping in heavy armor? And there are spells that aid with that as well, I'm pretty sure.

I suppose if there was reason enough to list Endurance, there's reason enough to list an alternate method of dealing with sleeping-in-armor fatigue. Lesser Restoration is a level 2 cleric spell; it's a bit of an ask for Roy to get Durkon to prepare that every adventuring day and cast it on him each morning, especially when they were level 9, but it's plausible, I guess. Ray of Resurgence is Cleric 1 and Wizard 2, but it's Faerun, don't know if that works in OOTSverse.

I just reckon a Restful Crystal would be as sensible an investment for Roy as taking Endurance; it's only 500 GP, and would transfer from armor to armor if he upgraded. The STR and DEX hit from fatigue would be relevant to him, as would preventing charging; I can't see him wanting that every adventure. We never see him taking armor off during situations he's expecting combat, so he obviously wants to be ready to fight at short notice (as befits a martial that would know he needs to protect the spellcasters if the party is ambushed while they're sleeping).

I'm not absolutely convinced Roy's wearing full plate, even though their armors are drawn similarly, as he wasn't making as much noise as Durkon here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0024.html), but we know Roy has Dex of 13+ and Durkon has Dex less than 10, and Roy is known to invest in cross-class skills, so his Move Silently rank is probably higher than Durkon's as well. Whatever he's wearing, he wouldn't want to take a minimum of 10 rounds to don it hastily during an ambush!

danielxcutter

2021-01-01, 06:52 AM

Roy probably has some Dex, and Durkon’s armor apparently isn’t even masterwork. Or it’s Heavy Plate or whatever that armor from Races of Stone was called.

Quartz

2021-01-01, 07:00 AM

I note that we still have Roy listed as having Endurance, due to sleeping in armor without getting fatigued (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0162.html), but this is neither RAW nor (I think) RAI for heavy armor, which Roy has been established as wearing several times now (panel 9 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0249.html) and panel 2 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0902.html)),

I think in that strip Belkar isn't referring to the class of armour there but its sheer mass (remember that it would indeed be very heavy for him). I think we've only seen Roy with breastplate and pauldrons (classed as Medium Armour in the SRD) - I'm thinking of that scene with Celia after his resurrection - so it's entirely possible that Roy has, in fact, Medium armour. And thus the Endurance feat.

TLDR: differentiate between armour being heavy and armour being Heavy Armour.

b_jonas

2021-01-01, 02:42 PM

Riftwolf

2021-01-01, 08:35 PM

Miko says in #224 that “There aren't even rules for sleeping”, (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0224.html) so that suggests that the rules about sleeping in armor don't apply in the OotSverse. However, Miko is dual-classed from monk, so perhaps she's not familiar with armor and simply mistaken about this.

From memory, 3.5 didn't have any rules about getting tired and *needing* sleep (unless you were a spellcaster, and even then you had the 'restful activity' caveat V uses on the island). There's a lot of blind spots in the game like that.

danielxcutter

2021-01-01, 08:53 PM

Actually there is something in Elder Evils, but that's unnatural insomnia caused by an excess of tainted positive energy or something. And off the top of my head, I think there was an NPC who hadn't been sleeping so he'd been using potions of Lesser Restoration for that in one of the campaign modules. Could have been Red Hand of Doom, but knowing my memory it could easily be Shackled City or something instead. Probably not Savage Tide or Age of Worms though.

b_jonas

2021-01-02, 05:43 AM

From memory, 3.5 didn't have any rules about getting tired and *needing* sleep (unless you were a spellcaster, and even then you had the 'restful activity' caveat V uses on the island). There's a lot of blind spots in the game like that. I don't think this is an oversight or blind spot. Whether the character sleeps or rests otherwise is their private matter and not relevant to the mechanics that D&D 3.5 cares about.

There are rules saying “In a day of normal walking, a character walks for 8 hours. The rest of the daylight time is spent making and breaking camp, resting, and eating,” and a lot of more details elaborating on this. (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#overlandMovement) That means that a D&D character can't just choose to skip sleeping and spend that time actively on exploration, and this applies whether the character is a human, an elf, or a lich. There's also a rule that Xykon referenced about creating magic items: “The caster works for 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day.” (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) So the same applies there: whether the spellcaster sleeps the rest of the time is irrelevant. You would perhaps need a rule for how much time each day Redcloak and Xykon needs for the Gate ritual, which takes “a few weeks” (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html). I don't think D&D 3.5 talks about rituals with such long casting time, though perhaps there's something in the epic spellcasting rules.

danielxcutter

2021-01-02, 05:54 AM

Presumably someone either expected the casters to do nothing but stand there and do the ritual, or forgot entirely.

Yanisa

2021-01-02, 04:19 PM

I don't think this is an oversight or blind spot. Whether the character sleeps or rests otherwise is their private matter and not relevant to the mechanics that D&D 3.5 cares about.

There are rules saying “In a day of normal walking, a character walks for 8 hours. The rest of the daylight time is spent making and breaking camp, resting, and eating,” and a lot of more details elaborating on this. (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#overlandMovement) That means that a D&D character can't just choose to skip sleeping and spend that time actively on exploration, and this applies whether the character is a human, an elf, or a lich. There's also a rule that Xykon referenced about creating magic items: “The caster works for 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day.” (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) So the same applies there: whether the spellcaster sleeps the rest of the time is irrelevant. You would perhaps need a rule for how much time each day Redcloak and Xykon needs for the Gate ritual, which takes “a few weeks” (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html). I don't think D&D 3.5 talks about rituals with such long casting time, though perhaps there's something in the epic spellcasting rules.

The Gate Ritual is a homebrew thing, but if it follows the rule for long casting time spells, it means they are only "casting" for 8 hours a day. See Genesis (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm)for an example.

The only "oversight" in the whole sleeping thing is that there are no penalties associated with not sleeping. The rules don't prevents a character from staying up all night to stand guard against an ambush. Heck sleep isn't even called out for regaining spells. V also references that here, second to last panel, (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0623.html) but apparently there are penalties. Just not rule based penalties but instead "role play penalties". :smalltongue:

Kornaki

2021-01-02, 11:16 PM

Despite the claims that there are no penalties, V clearly has a penalty to attack rolls because they haven't slept enough.

Peelee

2021-01-02, 11:25 PM

Despite the claims that there are no penalties, V clearly has a penalty to attack rolls because they haven't slept enough.

Tranced. Elves don't sleep.

Yanisa

2021-01-02, 11:34 PM

Despite the claims that there are no penalties, V clearly has a penalty to attack rolls because they haven't slept enough.

I considered it, but it's really hard to say anything conclusive. Most of the misses are against the imp, tiny and high dex, and V doesn't have a great attack bonus to start with, because no dex bonus. Below average rolls could also explain this scene mechanically without any penalty. It's not even stated that V misses due the state they are in.

Kornaki

2021-01-03, 01:16 AM

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0628.html

All that trance deprivation may have ruined your aim..

Panel 3

Peelee

2021-01-03, 01:40 AM

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0628.html

All that trance deprivation may have ruined your aim..

Panel 3

Panel 2.

Also, the dragon is not an avatar of truth. She may believe what she says, but it is not absolute fact.

Yanisa

2021-01-03, 02:10 AM

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0628.html

All that trance deprivation may have ruined your aim..

Panel 3

Nice catch. (I was staring blind at reactions after a miss... Also it's a "may", still not conclusive conclusive…)

It does clash with Miko's statement, but it is trance related and not sleep related so we can sweep it under the rug. Still hard how to interpret Miko's "joke" statement about sleeping with the only sleep related rule (sleeping in armor causes fatigue) we are trying to solve here.

b_jonas

2021-01-03, 04:56 AM

danielxcutter

2021-01-03, 05:20 AM

Blowing an attack roll can be either missing or bouncing off their armor, so maybe it's just something on those lines?

Kornaki

2021-01-03, 09:13 AM

Whereas Vaarsuvius says that trancing is not necessary and inefficient, and she's an elf, and generally well understands the rules that relate to her own practice, so I'd believe her over than the dragon about trancing.

Vaarsuvius was rationalizing to avoid having to dream or think about their failure in Azure City again. The whole point of the plotline is that they make a string of bad decisions, I don't know why you would trust them to be right here.

They also probably didn't care if they had a penalty to attack, since they weren't planning on shooting anything anyway.

Edit to add: I think it's also worth pointing out the context of miko's comment. She says there aren't rules for sleeping, so they should sleep in a ditch. At no point did anyone propose they skip sleeping entirely. If sleeping has no affect Roy also wouldn't have been so upset at the start about having to stay up all night to stand guard.

danielxcutter

2021-01-03, 09:50 AM

There really aren't rules that impose attack penalties after not sleeping, though, at least not to my knowledge. And it's entirely possible for everything that happened to occur with no penalties whatsoever.

Riftwolf

2021-01-03, 11:10 AM

Blowing an attack roll can be either missing or bouncing off their armor, so maybe it's just something on those lines?

Dimensional Anchor is an attack vs. touch AC, which for an Ancient Dragon is abysmally low (due to size penalties and no Dex). They make up for it in combat with natural armour (which touch AC ignores) , but an ABD can't really dodge spells like an Imp can.

Nice catch. (I was staring blind at reactions after a miss... Also it's a "may", still not conclusive conclusive…)

It does clash with Miko's statement, but it is trance related and not sleep related so we can sweep it under the rug. Still hard how to interpret Miko's "joke" statement about sleeping with the only sleep related rule (sleeping in armor causes fatigue) we are trying to solve here.

So, RAW, it makes more sense for a Fighter to stay awake all night in full-plate than to sleep in it?

danielxcutter

2021-01-03, 11:17 AM

Dimensional Anchor is an attack vs. touch AC, which for an Ancient Dragon is abysmally low (due to size penalties and no Dex). They make up for it in combat with natural armour (which touch AC ignores) , but an ABD can't really dodge spells like an Imp can.

It's called a nat 1.

So, RAW, it makes more sense for a Fighter to stay awake all night in full-plate than to sleep in it?

Welcome to 3.5e. You must be new here.

Kornaki

2021-01-03, 05:25 PM

I agree there are no rules about sleeping, but the comic also makes it clear that the characters have to sleep, or they suffer.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0224.html

What rule caused Elan to pass out there? None, but it still happened.

b_jonas

2021-01-03, 06:04 PM

What rule caused Elan to pass out there? None, but it still happened.Again, that's because of the rule that you can't travel for more than eight hours per day without ill effects. (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#overlandMovement) Miko is dictating a higher tempo: she specifically says “We could get 6 more hours of forced march in before dusk” in the third panel. Miko can just tough it out with her high constitution or cast Lesser Restoration on herself to keep the forced march up indefinitely, but Elan can't. Heck, Miko works as a horseback messenger, she might be optimized for traveling a large number of hours per day.

Kornaki

2021-01-03, 06:54 PM

That's not what the rule says. You can only walk eight hours a day, but Elan is not walking.

b_jonas

2021-01-04, 07:53 AM

Kornaki: yeah, you may be right. And also mentions that a cart or wagon can't travel for more than eight hours a day, though it only explains the penalties for walking or riding for longer than eight hours. Perhaps the horses pulling those wagons would get exhausted and die, rather than Elan passing out. I assume the Order doesn't have access to changed horses here. It's possible that before this strip, off-panel, the Order has been changing which two of them are riding, and Elan, due to his previous riding experience, volunteered to keep riding, but with six of them there and only two having to ride, the horses would have had to become exhausted before the characters.

Wildstag

2021-01-04, 08:00 PM

I know it's a few days late, but that FAQ quote on the last page is quite possibly the dumbest FAQ I've ever read; It's not the weight of the armor that matters for the proficiency (or at least it shouldn't) but rather the type of armor. Otherwise if it really were weight than Banded Mail would fall under Medium Armor proficiency for being lighter than Chainmail. Breastplate and Full Plate fit very differently on the body and have different movement restrictions; a light set of Full Plate doesn't change the way it fits.

But then again, it is 3.5 that we're discussing and they're even more vague than 5e half the time. I mean come on "purposes of movement and other limitations"? It's terrible writing to leave it so open-ended. They're the game designers, they should tell us what those limitations are.

Certain FAQs really only work to make the game dumber (as another example, see the mounted Skirmish bs).

On a side note, there are rules about sleeping, since spells that force the condition (and immunity to such effects) exist. Plus, I'm fairly certain that page was more about how far Miko's butt-stick reaches rather than any declaration that humans don't actually need to sleep in their world.

P.S. On a side note, the "Sleeping in Armor" line on the SRD doesn't actually mention how long a character must have been asleep to become fatigued. So spells like Sleep can actually force the martial to be Fatigued the next day. I'm sure there's some way to weaponize that (as a GM). This would penalize a non-Endurance Barbarian pretty heavily, I should think.

danielxcutter

2021-01-04, 09:02 PM

Ephemera

2021-01-22, 10:42 AM

danielxcutter

2021-01-22, 11:13 AM

Well, 1223 pretty much confirms a lot of our speculation about the nature of the tunnel-entrance trap. So I guess score one for us, we are at least as rules-savvy as the order themselves. :smalltongue:

I'm glad that those traps weren't necessarily set up by anyone who we have a statblock for, thereby sparing us 10 pages of arguing about how you would actually go about setting up such a thing. Headcanon: epic magic, end of discussion.

I very much doubt Serini took 17+ levels of Wizard.

Of course, my current headcanon is that she asked the party casters to help. Even if she didn't go behind Soon's back to do that, it mostly seems the conflict was between Soon and the arcane casters, not with Serini.

Ephemera

2021-01-22, 02:44 PM

Yah, these traps definitely seem like something an epic illusionist and epic wizard could cook up between them...heck, maybe Lirian provided the monsters too.

alceryes

2021-01-25, 10:51 AM

Yanisa

2021-01-25, 02:30 PM

I've been lurking here for a bit and decided to pop in and say hello. I'm an old school AD&Der from way back when and am absolutely loving OotS.

Did you all notice Blackwing in the panel where Roy peaks back through the teleport trap? This 'trap' is messing with my logic.
This is a very custom trap - tripped vs non-tripped viewing/teleportation with directional viewing. Would Roy's 'peak back' be considered Roy's viewing angle? As in 'trap successfully bypassed'?

I think the trap part is just the teleportation, like a teleportation circle (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportationCircle.htm) spell. The viewing part is a scrying spell cast upon to trap* and not actually part of the trap itself. Bypassing the trap bypasses the teleportation, but doesn't mess with the scrying showing the image.
*Sidenote: The scry spell isn't litterally on the trap. Normally a scrying spell shows an image on water, or a mirror (or a TV in the OotSverse), but this one seems to be projecting on the air instead. The same air people pass to active the trap.
Edit: I just woke up and realized that the scrying and teleported are both disrupted by Haley, see the second to last panel in #1220. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1220.html) "Huh, did the floor change color?" So that speculation is just straight up wrong.
I do feel the one-way mirror explanation is probably the best way to explain the situation in the comic, I hope that alone helps with getting a picture.

Not all directions have this scrying spell showing an image. Only the Outside and the "Fake" Tunnel have this spell to prevent people from noticing they are teleported. The Order is currently at the other side of these scrying and basically they are just watching unobstructed. It's like those mirrors that are reflective at one side, but glass at the other side.

alceryes

2021-01-26, 09:09 AM

Yeah, it is indeed an 'interesting' type of trap as the viewing and teleporting would have to be tied together, at least for RAW.

I suppose when you are the character, the player, the DM, AND dealing with (supposedly) epic-level casters, RAW become a little pliable. Either that or we just haven't figured it out yet. :wink:

Quartz

2021-01-26, 10:37 AM

Wasn't there a spell (likely 2E) in Dragon that does what we see in #1222 et al? I remember one that created a portal between two places on the same plane.

danielxcutter

2021-01-26, 11:05 AM

Wasn't there a spell (likely 2E) in Dragon that does what we see in #1222 et al? I remember one that created a portal between two places on the same plane.

Laurin used Wormhole which originates from 2e Dark Sun. This is probably a Teleportation Circle-esque spell combined with some kind of scrying spell.

alceryes

2021-02-11, 03:18 PM

Ephemera

2021-02-11, 03:29 PM

There's something familiar about the cloak and hand of our mysterious paladin kidnapper. I swear I've seen it in a past comic but I haven't the time to go through 1000+ strips. She obviously wants them alive too.

Anyone else feel the same?

There's a ton of speculation about this over in the thread for this comic, which is probably where this belongs unless there's a stats question attached. Not that I think we're _so_ precious about it, but it's definitely been discussed a lot.

Riftwolf

2021-02-17, 12:25 PM

Laurin used Wormhole which originates from 2e Dark Sun. This is probably a Teleportation Circle-esque spell combined with some kind of scrying spell.

Actually that's kind of exactly what we're seeing with the trap. When Laurin used Wormhole you saw the other side of the hole through it, so isn't the door trap just a permanent, neatly fitted Wormhole?

dps

2021-02-18, 05:56 PM

I think it makes enough sense for him to not have Endurance listed, but do we know that he wasn't exhausted after sleeping in heavy armor?

No one seems to have replied to this. Does anyone have a take on this--do we know for sure that Roy hasn't been fatigued on occasions in which he has slept in his armor?

RMS Oceanic

2021-02-19, 08:30 AM

Time to blow dust off the Order of the Scribble section :smallsmile:

While it's not explicitly who we think it is just yet, I think to start with we can peg her as old (minimum age 20, add 66/67 years) and all the stat adjustments this implies.

EmperorSarda

2021-02-19, 08:36 AM

Question. Wouldn't True Seeing allow Redcloak to see the teleport trap barrier?

RMS Oceanic

2021-02-19, 08:38 AM

Question. Wouldn't True Seeing allow Redcloak to see the teleport trap barrier?

True Seeing just pierces through Illusion and other Magical concealment. The barrier wasn't concealed, just really hard to see.

danielxcutter

2021-02-19, 08:41 AM

Halflings live about twice as long as humans... do we know precisely how long ago the first Snarl fiasco was?

RMS Oceanic

2021-02-19, 08:44 AM

Halflings live about twice as long as humans... do we know precisely how long ago the first Snarl fiasco was?

66 years ago at the time of the Order's trial in Azure City. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html)

dancrilis

2021-02-19, 08:57 AM

Should we give Serini some of the following:
Skills: Bluff and Craft (Alchemy)
Feat: Brew Potion
Class: Rogue/Unspecified Caster

Not sure about most of that but Bluff seems fair at least.

danielxcutter

2021-02-19, 09:04 AM

Yanisa

2021-02-19, 09:37 AM

66 years ago at the time of the Order's trial in Azure City. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html)
Halflings are middle age at 50+ years, old at 75+ years and venerable at 100+ years. We can basically exclude middle aged*.

If she had a randomly generated age by the rules we get:
Halfling's starting age is 20 years.
Rogue adds 2d4 if they roll randomly.
Means if we can assume her age range is 88-94; Old age. (-3 to Str, Dex and Con, +2 to Int, Wis and Cha)

With a handpicked age she could be 34-49 , have no penalties during the scribble saga and end up venerable now. (-6 to Str, Dex and Con, +3 to Int, Wis and Cha)

Technically she could be be as old as 133 and still live by the rules. That would make her 199 years old, close to 200 years that is the maximum age of a halfling.
I am going to assume the Giant wouldn't make her younger then adult, so her minimum age is 86.
*If she was 8 years or younger we could bring back the middle ages, but she doesn't act like a 8 year old.

Anyhow, mostly likely old age, possibly venerable.

Ephemera

2021-02-19, 10:43 AM

Bluff's technically doable untrained but I suppose it sounds fair.

Also I don't think she's taken caster levels; that pot has "instant magic pot" written on it in runes apparently so I'm guessing it's a crafting item.

Yah, even though I spent some time in the comic thread arguing that "instant pot" didn't indicate anything about whether the user was a caster, some sort of custom magic pot and her having UMD makes more sense than giving her caster levels just so she can make potions.

Are there any rules for poisons and such that can be brewed by a non-caster alchemist? From a non-rules story perspective that's probably the first assumption you'd want to make but I dunno if there's any RAW way for that to be the case.

danielxcutter

2021-02-19, 10:44 AM

Yah, even though I spent some time in the comic thread arguing that "instant pot" didn't indicate anything about whether the user was a caster, some sort of custom magic pot and her having UMD makes more sense than giving her caster levels just so she can make potions.

Are there any rules for poisons and such that can be brewed by a non-caster alchemist? From a non-rules story perspective that's probably the first assumption you'd want to make but I dunno if there's any RAW way for that to be the case.

Poisons can just be done with Craft(poisonmaking) I think. No need for caster levels.

Ephemera

2021-02-19, 05:38 PM

Poisons can just be done with Craft(poisonmaking) I think. No need for caster levels.

Then the question becomes whether you can get an amnesia effect from a poison...

danielxcutter

2021-02-19, 11:40 PM

Then the question becomes whether you can get an amnesia effect from a poison...

Oh, but then she said “amnesia potion”... I’m voting on that pot, though.

Quartz

2021-02-20, 08:11 AM

If Serini is a pure Rogue and the cauldron is a magic device, can we estimate her Use Magic Device skill?

danielxcutter

2021-02-20, 08:18 AM

If Serini is a pure Rogue and the cauldron is a magic device, can we estimate her Use Magic Device skill?

...Nnnnnnno, we don't know how the cauldron works or even if she'd need UMD to activate it in the first place.

Peelee

2021-02-20, 08:46 AM

If Serini is a pure Rogue and the cauldron is a magic device, can we estimate her Use Magic Device skill?

The cauldron is homebrewed, so even if we knew for a fact that it required UMD (we do not), we would have no idea what the DC would be.

danielxcutter

2021-02-20, 08:47 AM

The cauldron is homebrewed, so even if we knew for a fact that it required UMD (we do not), we would have no idea what the DC would be.

Heh, home"brewed".

Ephemera

2021-02-20, 09:40 AM

Heh, home"brewed".

Hipster Experts like to brew their own potions using home brew-kits.

I can just see a whole late-night infomercial for the magic instant pot here...

"Have you ever wanted to brew your own potions without the hassle of earning class levels? Now, for only 19 gold, 19 silver, 9 copper, you can own your very own magic instant pot! Order now, and we'll throw in this keen masterwork shuriken, a 40 gp value..."

Doug Lampert

2021-02-20, 10:56 PM

Hipster Experts like to brew their own potions using home brew-kits.

I can just see a whole late-night infomercial for the magic instant pot here...

"Have you ever wanted to brew your own potions without the hassle of earning class levels? Now, for only 19 gold, 19 silver, 9 copper, you can own your very own magic instant pot! Order now, and we'll throw in this keen masterwork shuriken, a 40 gp value..."

But wait! There's more! For only shipping and handling we'll send you this set cookware....

Jasdoif

2021-02-21, 02:15 PM

The cauldron is homebrewed, so even if we knew for a fact that it required UMD (we do not), we would have no idea what the DC would be.The closest things I can think of are the magic forges in Races of Stone....a forge of Thautum allows a smith to craft magic weapons and armor as though they had the appropriate item creation feat, and a furnace of flames fulfills spell prerequisites for magic item creation for spells with the Fire descriptor. As is usually the case for use-activated magic items, no UMD check is required.

Conversely, if we're going off the deep end....The lowest UMD DC that comes to mind is 18, assuming the cauldron provides a warlock's imbue item ability (and possibly the use of the Brew Potion feat) and the amnesia effect is a stepped-down (i.e. 3rd-level) variant of modify memory (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/modifyMemory.htm) so it's valid for potions.

Or perhaps she's making an entirely non-magical brew with amnesia peppers (https://www.nuklearpower.com/2007/01/02/episode-790-its-where-the-powder-comes-from/) and the cauldron simply helps with her Craft checks (like a couple of the other magic forges do) so it goes faster. Who knows?

hamishspence

2021-02-22, 03:20 PM

Jasdoif

2021-02-22, 03:51 PM

The Master Alchemist prestige class from Magic of Faerun gets to brew potions of higher level than 3rd - eventually reaching the ability to brew potions of 9th level spells. And there's nothing flavour-wise in the class that ties it irrevocably to the Faerun-verse.Meeting the prereq of being able to cast 4th-level spells obfuscates/obviates whatever the UMD check is supposed to accomplish, though....Also, using a higher level spell would raise the DC I was attempting to minimize.

RMS Oceanic

2021-02-25, 08:56 AM

I feel like making note of Serini's troll-graft is worthwhile, but it's hard to define how. An item? An ability? Does it do anything special?

knag

2021-02-25, 09:23 AM

Do we know what spell Xykon is using in #1227?

Yanisa

2021-02-25, 09:51 AM

Do we know what spell Xykon is using in #1227?

I don't think so.

Here's the list of spells known:

Spells: Animate Dead (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0037.html), Animate Dead Animal (SOD), Burning Hands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0459.html), Cloister (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html), Cloudkill (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Contingency (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Energy Drain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html), Epic Mage Armor (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Finger of Death (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0430.html), Fireball (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1215.html), Ghostform (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0370.html), Greater Invisibility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html), Greater Shatter (https://www.patreon.com/posts/36596373), Greater Teleport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Invisibility (SOD), Lightning Bolt (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0037.html), Magic Missile (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0112.html), Mass Hold Person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0659.html), Meteor Swarm (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html), Otiluke's Resilient Sphere (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Overland Flight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html), Ray of Frost (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0542.html), Soul Bind (SOD), Stoneskin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Superb Dispelling (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html), Symbol of Insanity (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html), Symbol of Pain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html), Telekinesis, Teleport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0192.html), Vampiric Touch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), Xykon's Moderately Escapable Forcecage (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0376.html), planar travel spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html), summoning spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html), architecture spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0520.html), and wall-breaking spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0661.html).

Based on how it looks we are looking for a "cone" of "negative energy" that most likely allows reflex save for evasion to trigger. Also needs to deal atleast d6 per caster level to threaten an epic rogue.

The closest things on the list seems to be Lightning Bolt (line instead of cold, probably not black), Burning Hands (damage seems to low, range seems to short.) and Finger of Death (failure would be obvious to Xykon) all with major cons.

Some people in the comic thread speculated Disintegrate, but that is generally a green line, not a black cone.

knag

2021-02-25, 09:59 AM

The closest things on the list seems to be Lightning Bolt (line instead of cold, probably not black), Burning Hands (damage seems to low, range seems to short.) and Finger of Death (failure would be obvious to Xykon) all with major cons.

Some people in the comic thread speculated Disintegrate, but that is generally a green line, not a black cone.

Another suggested Horrid Wilting, which works a little better.

danielxcutter

2021-02-25, 10:01 AM

Another suggested Horrid Wilting, which works a little better.

Serini looks more charred or rotted rather than shriveled though.

Also considering that there isn't a dialogue box for her text in that panel I am not going to be 100% surprised if Rich actually just forgot to make some changes.

Yanisa

2021-02-25, 10:03 AM

Another suggested Horrid Wilting, which works a little better.

Yeah, that is a good fit that I forgot. We also have an unknown level 8 spell, so it fits.

Psyren

2021-02-25, 10:08 AM

I feel like making note of Serini's troll-graft is worthwhile, but it's hard to define how. An item? An ability? Does it do anything special?

It could be a graft, or a template if that procedure on the table counts as a ritual. (I'm leaning towards graft too, I just wanted to put all the options out there.)

danielxcutter

2021-02-25, 10:11 AM

Honestly I'm mostly just going to view it as cosmetic unless we get evidence towards the contrary.

Yanisa

2021-02-25, 10:15 AM

There is a feat called Troll Blooded, but the only source I find is from the Dragon Magazines (#319). The benefits and name fit, the requirements and downsides not...

RMS Oceanic

2021-02-25, 11:00 AM

Honestly I'm mostly just going to view it as cosmetic unless we get evidence towards the contrary.

I too believe it's cosmetic, but it still feels noteworthy.

InvisibleBison

2021-02-25, 11:23 AM

Honestly I'm mostly just going to view it as cosmetic unless we get evidence towards the contrary.

Wouldn't the fact that the procedure allowed Serini to regrow her hand and foot constitute evidence that it's not just cosmetic?

danielxcutter

2021-02-25, 11:26 AM

Have we seen it actually do something besides that?

I will absolutely suggest it be added if we see it have a tangible effect besides that, I just don't think there's been anything worth adding to her statblock about it except its existence.

Taelas

2021-02-25, 12:49 PM

Wouldn't the fact that the procedure allowed Serini to regrow her hand and foot constitute evidence that it's not just cosmetic?

Regeneration exists, so no. Even if it is a different variant that doesn't follow exactly the rules for regeneration, the fact that the effect is available without it means it could be "just" cosmetic.

Kornaki

2021-02-25, 10:09 PM

There are no rules about missing a foot anyway. Sounds cosmetic to me.

Ephemera

2021-02-25, 10:33 PM

I don't think we know that--she did say that troll parts regenerate even when they're attached to a halfling, which could very well imply that she's gained some sort of regeneration powers, or it could be that the trolls did the equivalent of a home-brew regeneration using their blood with a side effect of making her look half troll.

I do think we can say that we have no evidence of powers gained so we shouldn't do anything beyond noting that she has some sort of troll graft at this point.

I think there's a pretty good chance we get to see her in action further, however, so we may get some further evidence one way or another for sure.

dps

2021-02-25, 10:33 PM

Regeneration exists, so no. Even if it is a different variant that doesn't follow exactly the rules for regeneration, the fact that the effect is available without it means it could be "just" cosmetic.

I'm not sure that I agree with the logic here, but maybe I'm misunderstanding your point. You seem to be saying that even if Serini now has regeneration as an inherent ability, we don't need to list it because Regeneration exists as a spell and is therefore available without it as an inherent ability. If that's a case, I have to disagree, because otherwise we wouldn't list anyone as having, say, healing potions because Healing is available without them.

RMS Oceanic

2021-02-26, 05:12 AM

It may not be enough to officially add it, but the #1227 discussion thread found a good candidate for the spell Xykon used on Serini: Blackfire, a Level 8 Necromancy spell from Complete Arcane

A ray of necromantic black energy springs from your hand, and on a successful ranged touch attack, a living target is engulfed in chill black flames that feed on the fuel of their victim’s life force. A creature engulfed in blackfire must make a successful Fortitude save each round that the spell is in effect or take 1d4 points of Constitution damage and become nauseated. A creature that makes its save takes no damage for that round and is sickened instead.

I think I hear a duck quacking :smallsmile:

danielxcutter

2021-02-26, 07:14 AM

...What do ducks have to do with anything?

RMS Oceanic

2021-02-26, 08:18 AM

...What do ducks have to do with anything?

The old saying, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..."

danielxcutter

2021-02-26, 08:42 AM

The old saying, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..."

I'll say what I did in the comic thread; while I have a nitpick in that Blackfire being a ray while the unknown spell is more a cone, it works better than other options.

It also has the "nice" side effect of making it incredibly hard for someone to revive you; you need True Res or Wish by default and you need to make a DC 30 caster level check. Dorukan was likely capable of doing that, but even he wouldn't be guaranteed to succeed without a Moment of Prescience or something and Xykon likely didn't even know Dorukan existed until he got her diary.

InvisibleBison

2021-02-26, 09:05 AM

It may not be enough to officially add it, but the #1227 discussion thread found a good candidate for the spell Xykon used on Serini: Blackfire, a Level 8 Necromancy spell from Complete Arcane

I think I hear a duck quacking :smallsmile:

Is there some way to turn Blackfire into a cone? Because the spell Xykon used is clearly a cone; compare it to Cone of Cold and Ray of Frost in #950 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0950.html).

danielxcutter

2021-02-26, 09:21 AM

Is there some way to turn Blackfire into a cone? Because the spell Xykon used is clearly a cone; compare it to Cone of Cold and Ray of Frost in #950 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0950.html).

...Nnnnno, not to my knowledge.

Metastachydium

2021-02-26, 10:09 AM

Also: how does ability damage burn away half of a person's body?

danielxcutter

2021-02-26, 10:15 AM

Also: how does ability damage burn away half of a person's body?

I mean, if it kills the target they burn to black ash. It's better than Horrid Wilting or Energy Drain that's for sure, but I suppose it's too early to say what spell that actually was.

Emanick

2021-02-26, 10:34 AM

Also: how does ability damage burn away half of a person's body?

Constitution damage degrades your body severely, so if Serini somehow got to 1 or 0 Constitution, I could see that roughly corresponding with what we see on-panel. It's a bit of a stretch, sure - but much less of one than, say, Dex or Int damage.

Yanisa

2021-02-26, 10:55 AM

I like the suggestion, but it still leaves me with some criticisms:

Regeneration does not heal ability score damage. So it's makes it harder to fit the troll blood healing within the rules.

There is no visual effect for the nauseating effect. Like Horrid Wilthting's wilting effect, it could have been not depicted.

I also find the spell rather slow (with 10 con it would take at least 3 rounds) and the scenario really feels like a magic drive-by, but that's a personal take.

Red.Tide

2021-02-27, 04:25 PM

Sorry if this has been hashed out before - I'm new to this and I wasn't able to find it with a quick search.

It's canon that Roy's will save is notably higher than Elan's, putting him decidedly in the "Good Will Saves" half of the party along with Durkon and V.

Durkon has a Will save of 14+ (13+ cleric, 22+ Wis)
Vaarsuvius has a Will save of 10+ (16 wizard)

Haley is considered to be in the "Poor Will Saves" half of the party, but unless she has a penalty (seems unlikely based on how she's treated as a character) she has a Will save of 5+ without items.

Elan certainly has a Wisdom penalty, but being a 14+ Bard bumps up his Will save by 9. This means that even if his Wisdom is as low as 4 (are there rules for how low a human's natural ability score might be?), he still has a +6 without items. More realistically, a Wisdom of 7 would give him a +7.

So Roy's no-magic-item* Will save should be in the 10-14 range without magic items rather than the 5-7 range.

Level 14 Fighters get +4 to Will, and level 15-18 Fighters get +5 to Will. Even if we assume Roy is 15+, he needs an additional +5 to get to the "Vaarsuvius-Durkon" range. If his Wisdom is 14, his Will saves would be about the same as Elan's. Wisdom 20 would get him to Vaarsuvius' level. However, his Wisdom has been described as "halfway decent," which seems a bit mild for Wis 20+**.

Therefore, I think it's likely that Roy has the Iron Will feat as the only way to be consistent with the following:
- Will saves comparable to V and Durkon, and noticeably better than Elan's
- "Halfway-decent" as opposed to "high" Wisdom
- Implied by the narrative that Roy's Will save aptitude is inherent and not based on some magic item*

Iron Will + 16 Wis would be consistent with the language used while giving him the same +10 Will save as Vaarsuvius (assuming that Roy is level 15+; if level 14 it would only be a +9).

* It's not impossible that Roy's high Will saves come from a magic item that he has, but such a magic item has never been mentioned or hinted at in the comic. On the other hand, Cloaks of Resistance are canonically common items for the protagonists, so it's more reasonable is that all the protagonists have similarly-leveled Cloaks of Resistance (or something comparable, because only Belkar actually wears a cloak).

** To be fair, the Giant also describes Roy's Int and Wis as "very good," - to me, this would imply that Roy's Wis is likely high for "halfway decent" and low for "very good", which still doesn't fit an un-boosted Wisdom of 20+.

danielxcutter

2021-02-27, 10:35 PM

I assume Roy has Steadfast Determination, which would allow him to use his Constitution for Will saves instead of Wisdom.

Gurgeh

2021-02-28, 12:56 AM

Steadfast Determination is a poor fit for Roy, since we have no reason to believe his constitution is particularly good (in fact, the current thread estimate is 12+ con vs 14+ wis).

danielxcutter

2021-02-28, 02:27 AM

Dr.Zero

2021-02-28, 11:26 AM

Also: how does ability damage burn away half of a person's body?

With an evil GM who wants to start another campaign!

GM: "Oh, come on, all the other players have left, I can't go on playing only with you. Let's start a new campaign with new people."
Player of Serini: "As long as this character is alive, I'll keep playing it. I managed to reach epic levels for the first time in my life, and I'm not going to abandon this campaign."

Some sessions later...

PoS: "Whoa, isn't that spell a little op? It could obliterate my character in a single shot!"
GM: "Hehe... your character is epic and it must face epic threats. And epic lich sorcerers are no jokes."
PoS: "Luckily I can evade it." (fails the st) "Damn it!"
GM: "Well, that's it! Are you going to roll another character?"
PoS: "Hey, calm down, I've improved evasion, even if I failed the st, I get only half of that damage! So my next move is..."
GM: "Very well, you get half obliterated."
PoS: "Wait, what?"
GM: "Yeah, you know. Evasion. Physically, it means you move away to avoid damage. But you managed to move away only to avoid half the damage. So that logically means half of you is safe and half didn't moved out of the spell range and that half takes full damage, being obliterated, while you, in total, take only half damage. Perfectly coherent with the rules and perfectly coherent with real world logic."
PoS: "Since when do we use real world logic when playing D&D?"
GM: "Since I decided that I got tired of a campaign with a single remaining player. But listen, if you go along with it, I'll let you play this character as a major guest star in the next campaign."
PoS: "And if I don't?"
GM: "The lich will notice that your character isn't completely dead and will cast a second spell."
PoS: "Sigh... agreed."

On a more serious not, I don't know, maybe it is really a gag at how Rich thinks Improved evasion should work on the "you take half damage".

b_jonas

2021-02-28, 01:01 PM

On a more serious not, I don't know, maybe it is really a gag at how Rich thinks Improved evasion should work on the "you take half damage". Yeah, I should have posted the thing about half damage here too.

She did save for half damage, which is why only half of his body is discolored. See Casey and Andy #225 and #226. (http://www.galactanet.com/comic/view.php?strip=226)

Dr.Zero

2021-02-28, 01:36 PM

Yeah, I should have posted the thing about half damage here too.

So I wasn't the first to think about it.
On a side note, interestingly in that comic the idea is ridiculed, here it would be more like "reality ensues".

Wildstag

2021-03-01, 11:11 AM

Steadfast Determination is a poor fit for Roy, since we have no reason to believe his constitution is particularly good (in fact, the current thread estimate is 12+ con vs 14+ wis).

Steadfast Determination would actually be a good feat for him even if his Constitution is equal to or greater than Wisdom. While it wouldn't give as much a bonus to Will saves as Iron Will would, it would give him greater utility in the Fortitude department. We already treat him as having Endurance, so he fulfills the prerequisites.

Lastly, the wording of SD says "you can use" (emphasis mine). So if he takes Constitution damage or Wisdom damage, and the scores are equal, he gets the option of using the better undamaged score.

Granted, it would really ONLY be useful if his Constitution was higher than his Wisdom by at least a +1 modifier, but that would put him into a demigodly stat array with only Dexterity and Charisma not being phenomenal.

P.S. By demigodly I merely mean it'd only be possible with rolled stats well above the average; a score minimum of 12 is just ridiculous, and we have knowledge of only one stat being amplified by items.

danielxcutter

2021-03-01, 11:16 AM

Yanisa

2021-03-01, 11:30 AM

As far as I quickly find, Roy read a Manual of Gainful Exercise in Snip, Snails and Dragon Tales. (Just in case, that book increases strength. Manual of Bodily Health is the one that increases constitution.)

danielxcutter

2021-03-01, 11:35 AM

Actually, is SSDT part of the main continuity?

Yanisa

2021-03-01, 11:41 AM

Dubiously yes. I don't think there is anything in the main comic that references or breaks SSDT, but there is also no real place on the timeline. (But I haven't read SSDT in a while.)

This thread at least treats it is cannon and it said manual is a really easy to explain Roy's 29 strength.

Wildstag

2021-03-01, 11:42 AM

Didn't he read the manual for the Con bonus? I wouldn't be shocked if his stat array is that impressive because he's boosted his physical stats with inherent bonuses considering how high they must be, but unless his Con bonus was REALLY bad it wouldn't be too hard to get it over 15, especially since he'd have no real reason to invest in Wisdom boosts rather than Constitution boosts.

Ah yes, you are right that he read a book, and as another pointed out, it is the Gainful Exercise one, which increases Strength. The last sentence of my postscript remains true.

Yanisa

2021-03-01, 11:59 AM

P.S. By demigodly I merely mean it'd only be possible with rolled stats well above the average; a score minimum of 12 is just ridiculous, and we have knowledge of only one stat being amplified by items.

I do am curious what the math says. There is really detailed posts here (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/153527/what-are-the-odds-of-rolling-specific-ability-score-totals-in-dd) about 5e, but they still seem to be using 4d6 drop lowest.

It seems that when we take Roy's at the minimal values listen, his stats would be within the top ~10% of all possible rolls. However a con score lower then mental stats doesn't seem to fit a world in which characters can choose their stats. So if we bump that con score to 14, it puts in the top ~5%.

Yeah, mathematically impressive. My favorite kind.

ebarde

2021-03-02, 04:46 AM

My current character used the 4d6 method, and now I have 3 dex lol so ig it's not impossible

b_jonas

2021-03-02, 07:45 AM

From what we know through the rules and that one post by the Giant, Roy has impressive stats for a typical adventurer. But this is probably a selection effect: he became the main character of OotS partly because his impressive stats helped him survive and become the main character. He probably has even more impressive stats, as in a high Dex and Con too, we just can't prove them for the rules geekery thread.

I still maintain my wild guess that he wasn't born with those impressive stats, he gained them in the magical explosion that killed his brother Eric. Roy probably suspects this and it's part of why he feels guilt about the explosion.

DaOldeWolf

2021-03-02, 09:15 PM

Dr.Zero

2021-03-03, 05:40 AM

Roy is played by (who the GM hopes to be) the GM's girlfriend. That's explains everything. Including the lucky findings while being presumably low level of magic books to raise his stats.

danielxcutter

2021-03-03, 06:44 AM

Roy is played by (who the GM hopes to be) the GM's girlfriend. That's explains everything. Including the lucky findings while being presumably low level of magic books to raise his stats.

I doubt Roy would be a Fighter then, though. Also then the girlfriend's pretty good at RPing.

Peelee

2021-03-03, 07:40 PM

Roy is played by (who the GM hopes to be) the GM's girlfriend. That's explains everything. Including the lucky findings while being presumably low level of magic books to raise his stats.
Roy started with good stats, though. And didn't he get that book at fairly high level?

I doubt Roy would be a Fighter then, though.
Why?

Rogar Demonblud

2021-03-03, 07:59 PM

Presumably, the DM would nudge said player into taking at least a Tier 2 class.

Peelee

2021-03-03, 08:29 PM

Presumably, the DM would nudge said player into taking at least a Tier 2 class.

And if the girl wanted to play a fighter, she'd presumably ignore the nudge.

Jasdoif

2021-03-03, 08:44 PM

If I recall from the Fourth Edition Dimension crossover in Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales; Roy is a Fighter instead of a Warblade because Eugene wouldn't pay for a PhD program.

Peelee

2021-03-03, 09:02 PM

If I recall from the Fourth Edition Dimension crossover in Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales; Roy is a Fighter instead of a Warblade because Eugene wouldn't pay for a PhD program.

Roy was in a STEM HILT field, wasn't he? Several of those effectively pay the Ph.D candidates.

I refuse to apologize for my bad graduate chemistry joke.

danielxcutter

2021-03-03, 09:29 PM

Presumably, the DM would nudge said player into taking at least a Tier 2 class.

I was thinking at least tier 3, but yeah.

And if the girl wanted to play a fighter, she'd presumably ignore the nudge.

This would explain the Spellsplinter Maneuver, though. Although “balance patch between classes” also works.

Dr.Zero

2021-03-04, 07:40 AM

Presumably, the DM would nudge said player into taking at least a Tier 2 class.

That's the whole point, though.
It's normal to be the hero of the campaign, if you take one of the best classes and optimize it enough, but only a true GM's girlfriend can manage to make her character be the hero of the campaign when logic would dictate otherwise.

Wildstag

2021-03-04, 12:26 PM

Plus, some GMs don't feel the need to push someone to be optimal, and perhaps this hypothetical "would-be GF" would feel offended to be given handouts like that.