improved binding is obtainable at level 1 for at will 3d6 lightning?

[newguydude1]

let me get this straight. a 1st level character can grab bind vestige and improved bind vestige, and throw 3d6 damage lightning bolts every round for 24 hours??? at level 1???

it cant be true right? cause this is the first time im hearing about it and the best i got regarding at will blasting at level 1 was acidic spittle from moi or precocious apprentice and fiery burst.

if it is true why isn't it endlessly mentioned more? at will 3d6 this early is ****ing godlike.

and improved vestige brings a hell of a lot of out of combat utility as well. naberius is mentioned in every cheese strat related to ability damage and drain.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

let me get this straight. a 1st level character can grab bind vestige and improved bind vestige, and throw 3d6 damage lightning bolts every round for 24 hours??? at level 1???

it cant be true right? cause this is the first time im hearing about it and the best i got regarding at will blasting at level 1 was acidic spittle from moi or precocious apprentice and fiery burst.

if it is true why isn't it endlessly mentioned more? at will 3d6 this early is ****ing godlike.It's an average of 14 damage.

A Medium greatsword with 14 Str is the same, and it has better consistency.

[Yael]

let me get this straight. a 1st level character can grab bind vestige and improved bind vestige, and throw 3d6 damage lightning bolts every round for 24 hours??? at level 1???

it cant be true right? cause this is the first time im hearing about it and the best i got regarding at will blasting at level 1 was acidic spittle from moi or precocious apprentice and fiery burst.

if it is true why isn't it endlessly mentioned more? at will 3d6 this early is ****ing godlike.

and improved vestige brings a hell of a lot of out of combat utility as well. naberius is mentioned in every cheese strat related to ability damage and drain.

Well, you can, at level 1, throw 5d6 damage Firebolts, 3 to 5 or enough for a day at least. So I don't see it as so much as overpowered.

[newguydude1]

so it is true? two feats and at will 3d6 lightning at level 1? throw away your crossbow, grab a tower shield and the heaviest armor you can buy and throw lightning 24/7 asf and armor check penality be damned?

why am i just hearing about this now?????? why is it only naberius is ever mentioned when people talk about vestiges?

[The Viscount]

so it is true? two feats and at will 3d6 lightning at level 1? throw away your crossbow, grab a tower shield and the heaviest armor you can buy and throw lightning 24/7 asf and armor check penality be damned?

why am i just hearing about this now?????? why is it only naberius is ever mentioned when people talk about vestiges?

You've got some incorrect information here.
Access to focalor at level 1 requires the improved binding feat. This requires the soul binding class feature, so can only be done with 1 level of binder. Still attainable at level 1, but you class and 1st level feat are used up.
If you take bind vestige and improved bind vestige, you will only gain his aura of sadness, not his lightning.
For what it's worth, you won't gain access to naberius's important ability damage/drain healing with bind vestige or the practiced binder feats. Once again, you have to sink 1 level of binder to actually get this power.

Also, note that that the target gets a save for half damage, so as mentioned above, a greatsword with some strength bonus is comparable. And at first level it's only got a range of 10 feet.

Naberius is the only one ever mentioned when people talk about vestiges because he was made famous for Hellfire Warlock builds. For a 1 level dip he makes the class way stronger in a way that is more defensible than Shape soulmeld (strongheart vest). Famous builds and build elements get discussed a lot, and anything you can exploit or build off of gets more word of mouth. A lot of discussion is built on older builds or forum posts. There's plenty of other stuff you can do with binder, but there are very few other vestiges that are as exploitable as Naberius.

[newguydude1]

You've got some incorrect information here.
Access to focalor at level 1 requires the improved binding feat. This requires the soul binding class feature, so can only be done with 1 level of binder. Still attainable at level 1, but you class and 1st level feat are used up.
If you take bind vestige and improved bind vestige, you will only gain his aura of sadness, not his lightning.
For what it's worth, you won't gain access to naberius's important ability damage/drain healing with bind vestige or the practiced binder feats. Once again, you have to sink 1 level of binder to actually get this power.

could you clarify?

bind vestige requirements: none so any class can take it
improved bind vestige requirements: bind vestige, so any class can take it.
once you bind a vestige you get a power from him.
choose the lightning power after grabbing focalor

why wont this work? why do i need soul binding class feature?

[gogogome]

could you clarify?

bind vestige requirements: none so any class can take it
improved bind vestige requirements: bind vestige, so any class can take it.
once you bind a vestige you get a power from him.
choose the lightning power after grabbing focalor

why wont this work? why do i need soul binding class feature?

You get the power listed on table 1-9. Focalors lightning is not on that table, only his aura is.

[The_Snark]

could you clarify?

bind vestige requirements: none so any class can take it
improved bind vestige requirements: bind vestige, so any class can take it.
once you bind a vestige you get a power from him.
choose the lightning power after grabbing focalor

why wont this work? why do i need soul binding class feature?

The Bind Vestige feat doesn't let you pick which power you get from the vestige; it gives you a predetermined choice. The table showing what you get is easy to miss, it's on the next page and the feat only refers to it once near the beginning.


Access to focalor at level 1 requires the improved binding feat. This requires the soul binding class feature, so can only be done with 1 level of binder. Still attainable at level 1, but you class and 1st level feat are used up.

Not quite; if you're a 1st-level binder with the Improved Binding feat, you can bind vestiges as a 3rd-level binder, but you need 5th to grab Focalor and his lightning.

[Doctor Despair]

could you clarify?

bind vestige requirements: none so any class can take it
improved bind vestige requirements: bind vestige, so any class can take it.
once you bind a vestige you get a power from him.
choose the lightning power after grabbing focalor

why wont this work? why do i need soul binding class feature?

The pseudo-binder feats only grant specific powers, not any power of your choice. The powers are listed on a table in the text.

[newguydude1]

You get the power listed on table 1-9. Focalors lightning is not on that table, only his aura is.


The Bind Vestige feat doesn't let you pick which power you get from the vestige; it gives you a predetermined choice. The table showing what you get is easy to miss, it's on the next page and the feat only refers to it once near the beginning.



Not quite; if you're a 1st-level binder with the Improved Binding feat, you can bind vestiges as a 3rd-level binder, but you need 5th to grab Focalor and his lightning.

ah ok i knew i missed something. this was too good to be true. glad i made the thread.

ok so that means i dont get ANDROMALIUS's locate item either right?

alright thanks guys.