Optimizing Mind Sliver?

[Citadel97501]

I am just wondering if there is any class ability that doesn't cost resources so we can really abuse Mind Sliver's Cantrip nature? The only strong combinations for a single character, I can think of are as follows. Feel free, to give your own combinations. Unfortunately its still 2 saves they are getting with one of them barely doing any damage, but hopefully setting up some SOL situations?

1) A Pact of the Chain Warlock and the Sprite Familiar with the Investment of the Chain Master (Tasha's). Poison on a failed save, maybe even knocking them out for a full 10 rounds, to be honest turning your bonus action into a save or die is nasty...

2) The other I was thinking was the Enchanter, but it doesn't work very well with Hypnotic Gaze, but I think it would work better with its Instinctive Charm, if they fail their save they end up attacking someone else?

3) Cikomyr, and RogueJK, suggested the rather interesting Telekinetic Shove combo, using Mind Sliver & the Telekinetic feat to push/pull people as you see fit. This could be very interesting with some further tricks such as a trap set up through Mold Earth, and the like.

4) Wraith, suggested a method that might make the Spore Druid a lot more dependable on its cloud of spores damage, namely through using mind spike to reinforce the chance of a failed saving throw. This is likely just a minor benefit, as just like the rest of the Spore druid is a bit on the weaker side, but it is an option.

[Civis Mundi]

I've been eyeing that first combo since the UA came out for those options. I like it in combination with Summon Undead Spirit myself -- even if they don't get KO'd by your sprite, your Putrid Spirit might be able to paralyze them.

Mind sliver's tailormade for my Nix Inktongue build (listed in my sig). I would've included it if it was official at that point -- it's the perfect set-up to a lot of your combos there.

[Zwordsman]

Well other than cantrips; not really without expending reesources? and unless youu're using Metamagic (Resources) a single class has a harder time setting it up-as others might use it.

That said.
Mind Sliver + Poisoner poison is fun. as is a battle master's maneuevers. Really any save stuff.
a pure psychic sorcerer can have a lot of fun with quicken combos of course.

My alchemist (got this via half elf high elf ancestry) does like this. combo's with other's save or suck spells. But also his poison boomerang

[Mikal]

It takes a bit of setup but 10th level plus eldritch Knight- mind sliver, weapon attack via war magic.

If mind sliver hits and the weapon strike hits, unless someone else forces a save before your next turn the spell you cast on them the next round will require a save at disadvantage along with the mind sliver penalty.

That’s when you hold person or other save or suck, then action surge into a bunch of strikes with great weapon master to wipe them out

[Cikomyr2]

It's not much, but I have been pondering at Mind Sliver+Telekinesy combo to throw enemies off walls, ledges, etc..

[RogueJK]

Not resource-free, but there's a little bit of synergy on a Crown Oath Sorcadin.

Mind Sliver + BA Compelled Duel

Mind Sliver + BA Champion Challenge


And an Autumn/Winter Eladrin could Mind Sliver + BA Fey Step with Charm/Fear rider, though that's still not resource-free.


Also potentially useful with the Telekinetic feat, for Mind Sliver + BA psychic shove. That one doesn't use any spell slots, limited racial abilities, or Channel Divinity resources.


But mostly it's for setting up an ally's ability/spell.

[Wraith]

Circle of Spores Druid's level 2 ability Halo of Spores requires a CON save from someone within 10ft or it inflicts Necrotic damage, doesn't have a duration, and is 'activated' for unlimited uses with your Reaction. Picking out one valuable target and hitting them with Mind Spike is a good way to double-down and make sure that one guy in particular takes damage. It's not an amazing amount of damage by any stretch, even at it's level 14 peak, but it works and is quite consistent.

You can spend one of your Wildshapes to double the damage if you like, but this isn't mandatory for the trick to work and just makes it more effective.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Mind Sliver with a sorcerer with Quicken Metamagic for lower chance to save VS most spells.

Mind Sliver + Illusionist Brecers to make a cascading failure which by loosing the first save you are probably loosing the rest of the saves(also work if every member if every member of the party have the cantrip for extra creepy mind slivering).

[AttilatheYeon]

My Aberrant Mind sorc frequently MS's a target within melee of other group members, then quickens Dissonant Whispers. Eventually i plan on getting Warcaster and using Booming Blade to either deal extra damage when they move or force them to stay where they end up.

[J-H]

Mind Sliver + Haste + Mind Thrust. -1d4 on the saves for a Slow-type effect.
Or just pair it with Slow in general.

[Bilbron]

I am just wondering if there is any class ability that doesn't cost resources so we can really abuse Mind Sliver's Cantrip nature? The only strong combinations for a single character, I can think of are as follows. Feel free, to give your own combinations. Unfortunately its still 2 saves they are getting with one of them barely doing any damage, but hopefully setting up some SOL situations?

1) A Pact of the Chain Warlock and the Sprite Familiar with the Investment of the Chain Master (Tasha's). Poison on a failed save, maybe even knocking them out for a full 10 rounds, to be honest turning your bonus action into a save or die is nasty...

2) The other I was thinking was the Enchanter, but it doesn't work very well with Hypnotic Gaze, but I think it would work better with its Instinctive Charm, if they fail their save they end up attacking someone else?

3) Cikomyr, and RogueJK, suggested the rather interesting Telekinetic Shove combo, using Mind Sliver & the Telekinetic feat to push/pull people as you see fit. This could be very interesting with some further tricks such as a trap set up through Mold Earth, and the like.Mind Sliver is best optimized to work with your teammates and not yourself. Coordinate and setup their Banish or other save-or-suck.

[RogueJK]

Mind Sliver with a sorcerer with Quicken Metamagic for lower chance to save VS most spells.


That does seem to be the most viable option for maximizing Mind Sliver's usefulness, although not "resource free" like the OP was wanting.


Coordinate and setup their Banish or other save-or-suck.

A Sorcerer could coordinate with themselves to Mind Sliver then Quicken Banishment. :smallbiggrin:

[Cikomyr2]

If you can work on a combo, then Mind Sliver is absolutely fantastic when coupled with Bane by a teammate.

[lall]

It’s useful to help you fail saves, like if you’re trying to banish yourself.

[Kireban]

Since you can cast only cantrips after casting a spell, spell combos wont work on the same turn... but it can help others in the party with their spells/abilities, so it is nice.

[AttilatheYeon]

If you can work on a combo, then Mind Sliver is absolutely fantastic when coupled with Bane by a teammate.

I mean it's great on my sorc who casts bane two.

[AvalancheSpring]

Mind sliver is ideal for persistent effects with multiple saves.

Round 1 - mass aoe debuff/disable. Think slow, fear, or could be an upcast hold person or am area effect - even a humble grease. For this example, let's say you cast slow on the nastiest 6 enemies. 4 fail their saves. One of those recovers on its turn.

Round 2+ - use mind sliver to keep the nastiest of the remaining allowed monsters slow. Then just kick back and let the martials feel they they are tough, while you have actually already won the fight for them.

This is most useful when you need to be really spell-slot efficient, as on a longer dungeon crawl.

[Emongnome777]

Since you can cast only cantrips after casting a spell, spell combos wont work on the same turn... but it can help others in the party with their spells/abilities, so it is nice.

Are you referring to this from the PHB?:


Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action. Emphasis added.

You're using your action to cast Mind Sliver, a cantrip. You can certainly cast any type of spell (cantrip or leveled spell) as a bonus action on the same turn, before or after the action to cast a cantrip.

Not sure what you're referring to here.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

It’s useful to help you fail saves, like if you’re trying to banish yourself.

Kind of hard, banishment make you incapacitated so you will lose concentration the moment the spell succeed.

[JackPhoenix]

Kind of hard, banishment make you incapacitated so you will lose concentration the moment the spell succeed.

Only if you'll get sent to the demiplane. If you not on your native plane, you'll get sent home (temporarily, unless you concentrate for the entire duration) without being incapacitated.

Of course, Banishment doesn't say *where* on your home plane you'll end up...

[noob]

Only if you'll get sent to the demiplane. If you not on your native plane, you'll get sent home (temporarily, unless you concentrate for the entire duration) without being incapacitated.

Of course, Banishment doesn't say *where* on your home plane you'll end up...

Obviously in a safe place surrounded by servitors that will help you plot vengeance against whoever did cast banishment on you(it works that way when you cast it on a BBEG).
If you cast it on yourself then you have to do the hard task of planning revenge against yourself.

[Kireban]

Are you referring to this from the PHB?:



You're using your action to cast Mind Sliver, a cantrip. You can certainly cast any type of spell (cantrip or leveled spell) as a bonus action on the same turn, before or after the action to cast a cantrip.

Not sure what you're referring to here.

o thx for the correction. Was sure that the order of actions was important.

[lall]

Of course, Banishment doesn't say *where* on your home plane you'll end up...
Not a problem. Background is that Mom intentionally gave birth to me in a Demiplane she created, and those are pretty small. She wanted to hook me up in case I became a spellcaster. This way I can banish myself from whatever plane I’m on and in privacy cast Demiplane and Wish for Clone before dropping concentration.