Protection from ...

[ApesAmongUs]

So, the Protection from X line of spells (the ones that describe themselves as "like Protection from Evil, but..." have several effects, but I'm not quite sure what the rules are and which are implied, but written in sloppy English.

The AC and Save bonuses clearly only affect attacks/spells from the protection type. This one is explicit.

The repelling for summoned creatures is less clear. The PfE spells says that good creatures are immune to the effect, so that would imply that neutral and evil are affected, but all of the variant versions just list one type of creature affected - Protection from Chaos says "chaotic summoned creatures cannot touch the subject", which would imply that neutral weren't affected. I can't tell if they was them being sloppy when attempting to shorten it, or if the sloppiness was in the original description. It seems to be an issue with the fact that Protection from Evil is written to say what is not affected, while the variations are written to say what is affected, so it's not surprising that the rules don't match up. Is this intended to make the other spells behave differently towards neutral summons? Or, if they should be treated the same, which version is correct?

Then there is the section on protection from Possession/Enchantment charm/Enchantment Compulsion. It makes no mention of the source of the possession/enchantment, so that seems to imply that it protects from those effects no matter the source. But, again, that could be them assuming that it was implied by the name. I'm certain that one must have been answered in Sage Advice at some point, but I can't find anything.

Any semi-official answers on these?

[Venger]

The variants are indeed sloppily written. Just find and replace the alignment words in question. The variants do not work differently from prot from evil. It repels summons aside from ones with an alignment descriptor matching the spell. All four rebuff neutral creatures.

The protection from mind control applies regardless of the source of the creature who's trying to zap you.

Do not use faq/sage for rules advice, it is always wrong.

[sreservoir]

For even more fun, we have protection from winged fliers and the spirit shaman's class feature, both of which are a solid huh????? to figure out which summoned creatures they should block if we assume that protection against non-evil alignments are just sloppily written.

[ApesAmongUs]

For even more fun, we have protection from winged fliers and the spirit shaman's class feature, both of which are a solid huh????? to figure out which summoned creatures they should block if we assume that protection against non-evil alignments are just sloppily written.

The Spirit Shaman protection was what initially inspired the question. I had never put much thought into it before, but at the level immediately after they get the 24-hour protection they get a save bonus vs enchantments. It just seemed off that a class would get two abilities with so much overlap at consecutive levels with the much more powerful one happening at the lower level. But, then, there's always the chance that the designers of the class also didn't understand how "Protection from" works.

[Fouredged Sword]

The Spirit Shaman protection was what initially inspired the question. I had never put much thought into it before, but at the level immediately after they get the 24-hour protection they get a save bonus vs enchantments. It just seemed off that a class would get two abilities with so much overlap at consecutive levels with the much more powerful one happening at the lower level. But, then, there's always the chance that the designers of the class also didn't understand how "Protection from" works.

Well, it's worth noting that the protection from X spells don't actually prevent you from being the target of various forms of mind control. All it does is prevent spells that exert ongoing control from functioning while the protection effect remains. If someone has protection from evil cast on them you can totally still target them with Dominate. It's just that the dominate spell will sit powerless until their protection spell lapses. This is fun when the party remembers to cast protection from evil before fighting a vampire, but then forgets to check to see if it dominated anyone before settling down and sleeping for the night. It's all fun and games until the party fighter wakes up under the effects of dominate.

Protection from evil lasts minutes per level. Dominate from a vampire's gaze lasts 12 days.

And what's more the suppression effect of the Protection from X spells only work on things that "Exert ongoing control". For example, Charm Person has a line in it's description that says "The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. " and is arguably not going to be stopped by protection from evil.

So while the protection from X effect is more powerful, it's also more limited than a general bonus to saves VS a school of effects.

[sreservoir]

The Spirit Shaman protection was what initially inspired the question. I had never put much thought into it before, but at the level immediately after they get the 24-hour protection they get a save bonus vs enchantments. It just seemed off that a class would get two abilities with so much overlap at consecutive levels with the much more powerful one happening at the lower level. But, then, there's always the chance that the designers of the class also didn't understand how "Protection from" works.

Assuming you're thinking of Follow the Guide (which is basically reroll next round), well, how much those abilities actually overlap hinges on another piece of sloppy editing: how inclusive is "exercise mental control"? Taking it at face value makes a 1st-level spell pretty much shut down the combat utility of the whole enchantment school, but the existence of the "grant the caster ongoing control" clause clearly suggests a more restrictive reading. We can be pretty sure protection from winged fliers disables as written are basically magic jar and dominate effects, probably command undead, and maybe a syntactic case for arguing that it blanket blocks charm effects without restriction. But beyond that, it's not really clear what constitutes control, and to what extent non-ongoing control is excluded. But certainly the fact that it's brought up at all implies that things like command and suggestion and geas aren't blocked, and probably also not ... pretty much every other enchantment that isn't a charm or dominate.

Follow the Guide, for its part, clearly works on any enchantment effect with a save and a duration.


Well, it's worth noting that the protection from X spells don't actually prevent you from being the target of various forms of mind control. All it does is prevent spells that exert ongoing control from functioning while the protection effect remains. If someone has protection from evil cast on them you can totally still target them with Dominate. It's just that the dominate spell will sit powerless until their protection spell lapses. This is fun when the party remembers to cast protection from evil before fighting a vampire, but then forgets to check to see if it dominated anyone before settling down and sleeping for the night. It's all fun and games until the party fighter wakes up under the effects of dominate.

Protection from evil lasts minutes per level. Dominate from a vampire's gaze lasts 12 days.

For some extra wonkiness, the example given, dominate person, also has a function that lets you receive full sensory input. That part doesn't seem to involve ongoing control. Does PfWF block it just because it's part of an effect that grants the caster ongoing control??

The duration is less of a problem than you'd expect, though, since magic circles have a 10 min/level base duration (which isn't necessarily long enough to keep up all the time, but long enough to get it fixed), the spirit shaman class feature explicitly lasts forever until dispelled or dismissed and can be restarted whenever you have 10min, and un/hallow grants a magic circle effect to an area forever (the 1 year limit applies only to the attached spell effect and yes, this is weird as hell since it means ghosts can't possess anyone on unhallowed ground and also an area being unhallowed once makes it suppress dominations on anyone who gets in the area forever, no dispel possible because it's Instantaneous).

[ApesAmongUs]

this is weird as hell since it means ghosts can't possess anyone on unhallowed ground and also an area being unhallowed once makes it suppress dominations on anyone who gets in the area forever, no dispel possible because it's Instantaneous).
Yet another bit where it would make a lot more sense if it were actually limited to the "from X" part. Unhallowed? Well, those malicious ghosts can possess you all day. While, if you're on Hallowed ground, the Holy Spirit has no trouble taking over and speaking through you. RAW is often dumb.