Help me make this character not suck.

[heavyfuel]

Hello, all!

In the game I'm currently playing we have this Expert Sidekick with really crappy scores (8 14 14 10 10 10). In the beginning he was dealing okay damage (1d8+2) with a light crossbow, but now we're level 4 and this damage is quickly becoming irrelevant.

As such, instead of increasing his Dex to 16, I was thinking of giving him a feat that allowed for more relevance as levels go by.

My first thought was Magic Initiate for some scaling cantrips (even though his mental scores suck). Booming Blade is decent enough, as is something like Eldritch Blast or Firebolt.

I also though of Sharpshooter, but the damage increase is very slight compared to +2 Dex, and there's no scaling to it.

Any other ideas? Thanks!

Edit: I guess I wanted him to be able to do something else with action in combat other than attacking. I don't think any amount of feats is going to make this character relevant at DPR.

[Unoriginal]

Hello, all!

In the game I'm currently playing we have this Expert Sidekick with really crappy scores (8 14 14 10 10 10). In the beginning he was dealing okay damage (1d8+2) with a light crossbow, but now we're level 4 and this damage is quickly becoming irrelevant.

As such, instead of increasing his Dex to 16, I was thinking of giving him a feat that allowed for more relevance as levels go by.

My first thought was Magic Initiate for some scaling cantrips (even though his mental scores suck). Booming Blade is decent enough, as is something like Eldritch Blast or Firebolt.

I also though of Sharpshooter, but the damage increase is very slight compared to +2 Dex, and there's no scaling to it.

Any other ideas? Thanks!

Using Cantrips is not a good idea with those mental stats.

If you don't want to put their DEX to 16, I recommend taking Fighting Initiste for the Archery fighting style.

[heavyfuel]

Using Cantrips is not a good idea with those mental stats.

If you don't want to put their DEX to 16, I recommend taking Fighting Initiste for the Archery fighting style.

Not sure how much better +2 to attack is compared to +2 Dex (+1 to attack, damage, initiative, ac, dex saves, and skills). Even from a strict DPR perspective, the feat kinda sucks. Plus, no scaling for that either :smallfrown:

I guess I wanted him to be able to do something else with action in combat other than attacking. I don't think any amount of feats is going to make this character relevant at DPR.

[J-H]

What about the Healer feat, for in-combat healing? Or a level in Rogue for some sneak attack?

[heavyfuel]

What about the Healer feat, for in-combat healing? Or a level in Rogue for some sneak attack?

Healer feat is interesting. Levels in Rogue (or any other class) are, unfortunately, out. This is a sidekick that must stick to the Expert sidekick class.

[Unoriginal]

Not sure how much better +2 to attack is compared to +2 Dex (+1 to attack, damage, initiative, ac, dex saves, and skills). Even from a strict DPR perspective, the feat kinda sucks. Plus, no scaling for that either :smallfrown:

I guess I wanted him to be able to do something else with action in combat other than attacking. I don't think any amount of feats is going to make this character relevant at DPR.

Well he's an Expert, not a Warrior. So yeah he's not going to be an attack beast.

[Willie the Duck]

Any other ideas? Thanks!

Edit: I guess I wanted him to be able to do something else with action in combat other than attacking. I don't think any amount of feats is going to make this character relevant at DPR.

I have this same basic question for my Valor Bard -- the primary reason to take said archetype, other than medium armor and shields, is to have something better to do during rounds where you don't want to spend a spell slot than a lore bard has, yet in the end it ends up being two arrow or rapier attacks. For that character, what I decided upon was Fae Touched: Misty Step and Hunter's Mark (although Hex works too, HM was just more thematic). Two attacks* for 1d8+1d6+3 is probably better than -5/+10 without an avenue towards regular advantage/plus-to-hit. Now that's probably a better choice for someone with additional spell slots to recast said spell, but otoh this expert doesn't have competition for concentration.

That said, I tend to agree that not-attacking is probably their best strategy and they should be running around grappling (if they have expertise in athletics) or spreading caltrops, administering healing potions, or yes just sitting back and plonking for 2d8+6*. ASIs for them would be better spent on Cook, Healer, Inspiring Leader, ritual caster, magic initiate (looking for guidance, mage hand, find familiar, or the like), or other support abilities as your group needs.
*once you hit L5, that is.

[heavyfuel]

Well he's an Expert, not a Warrior. So yeah he's not going to be an attack beast.

He doesn't need to be a beast, he just needs to not suck horribly hahahaha


I have this same basic question for my Valor Bard -- the primary reason to take said archetype, other than medium armor and shields, is to have something better to do during rounds where you don't want to spend a spell slot than a lore bard has, yet in the end it ends up being two arrow or rapier attacks. For that character, what I decided upon was Fae Touched: Misty Step and Hunter's Mark (although Hex works too, HM was just more thematic). Two attacks* for 1d8+1d6+3 is probably better than -5/+10 without an avenue towards regular advantage/plus-to-hit. Now that's probably a better choice for someone with additional spell slots to recast said spell, but otoh this expert doesn't have competition for concentration.

That said, I tend to agree that not-attacking is probably their best strategy and they should be running around grappling (if they have expertise in athletics) or spreading caltrops, administering healing potions, or yes just sitting back and plonking for 2d8+6*. ASIs for them would be better spent on Cook, Healer, Inspiring Leader, ritual caster, magic initiate (looking for guidance, mage hand, find familiar, or the like), or other support abilities as your group needs.
*once you hit L5, that is.

Cook feat is also very interesting for out-of-combat utility. Similar to the Healer that was mentioned.

Grappling is also a strategy I hadn't considered. Is there any feat that improves that? He does have proficiency in Athletics (and I think we'd be able to retrain his expertise if needed), but his low Str score makes it not ideal.

I think Magic Initiate is almost strictly better than Fey Touched for this character. Basically once per day Misty Step vs 2 cantrips. I think the Cantrips would come out on top (if only slightly so).

Thanks!

[Willie the Duck]

Grappling is also a strategy I hadn't considered. Is there any feat that improves that? He does have proficiency in Athletics (and I think we'd be able to retrain his expertise if needed), but his low Str score makes it not ideal.

Expertise is primary. Tavern Brawler would let you start with an unarmed/improvised weapon attack, and then get a grapple check as a rider. Given their low to-hit (even for a finesse improvised weapon), I wouldn't chance it. Fighting Initiate: unarmed fighting would let you deal 1d4 when you start the grapple, plus 1d4 per hit you make while grappling. If you dedicated the character to this, I would take that feat. However, your primary value is locking down an enemy and giving everyone else advantage against them.


I think Magic Initiate is almost strictly better than Fey Touched for this character. Basically once per day Misty Step vs 2 cantrips. I think the Cantrips would come out on top (if only slightly so).

Probably, but you do have to deal with finding the right combo of 1st-level and cantrips (given that an Int/Wis/Cha-based combat cantrip would be pretty marginal). Wizard for Mage Hand/Booming Blade/Find Familiar would work; Warlock for Mage Hand/Booming Blade/Hex; Druid for Guidance/Resistance/Fog Cloud (or Goodberry); or Cleric for Guidance/Resistance (or Mending)/Bless or a cure might be nice.

[Valmark]

Well the Expert is a support/out-of-combat kind of class, so it's normal that it doesn't do much. That said, their damage will increase a bit at level 6 at least.

I'd just increase their Dexterity, personally. You probably have a shaky accuracy I imagine, that's going to help you for the time being- and Sharpshooter doesn't give you much benefit.

Unfortunately the Expert is pretty much geared towards using Help and attacking- with those stats even more so. You could give them items to use like another user suggested, like caltrops and stuff. Probably the best you can do until the sidekick gets Cohordinated Strike.

What skills/expertises do they have?

[Zaltman]

Ritual caster feat?

[Heavenblade]

Tandem tactician would be a grrat feat for the guy. Let him runnaround the battlefield, disengaging if needed, and helping out others. If no need for disengage/hide/whatever, he can give advantage to up to four characters - and these NEVER go out of style.

[Kane0]

With bad stats you dont want to attack, you want to support and control. Healer, Ritual Caster or Magic Initiate for Mold Earth/Guidance/Resistance plus a 1st level bfc spell like fog cloud are potential options but also consider the Tasha’s tactician or fighting style feat for Interception style

[Willie the Duck]

Ritual caster feat?


With bad stats you dont want to attack, you want to support and control. Healer, Ritual Caster or Magic Initiate for Mold Earth/Guidance/Resistance plus a 1st level bfc spell like fog cloud are potential options but also consider the Tasha’s tactician or fighting style feat for Interception style

I thought about that too, but they don't meet the prereqs for either Inspiring Leader or Ritual Caster.

[heavyfuel]

Well the Expert is a support/out-of-combat kind of class, so it's normal that it doesn't do much. That said, their damage will increase a bit at level 6 at least.

I'd just increase their Dexterity, personally. You probably have a shaky accuracy I imagine, that's going to help you for the time being- and Sharpshooter doesn't give you much benefit.

Unfortunately the Expert is pretty much geared towards using Help and attacking- with those stats even more so. You could give them items to use like another user suggested, like caltrops and stuff. Probably the best you can do until the sidekick gets Cohordinated Strike.

What skills/expertises do they have?

The crappy thing about the Expert and Sharpshooter is that the Help action is in direct competition with Cunning Action, so they can't Hide for advantage, which makes SS less than ideal.

I think they are proficient in Stealth, Perception, Investigation, Sleight of Hand, Athletics and Acrobatics, with Expertise in Stealth and Perception.


Tandem tactician would be a grrat feat for the guy. Let him runnaround the battlefield, disengaging if needed, and helping out others. If no need for disengage/hide/whatever, he can give advantage to up to four characters - and these NEVER go out of style.

There's a lot of overlap between TT and the Expert's class features, so I don't think we'll be going this route.


With bad stats you dont want to attack, you want to support and control. Healer, Ritual Caster or Magic Initiate for Mold Earth/Guidance/Resistance plus a 1st level bfc spell like fog cloud are potential options but also consider the Tasha’s tactician or fighting style feat for Interception style

Completely agree that attacking is not the best option, which is why I'm here :smallbiggrin:

I do think Healer will be very welcome, though getting Interception might be worth it as well.

[Dork_Forge]

Personally I'd go for +1 Dex, that Sidekick's stats are rough and they will age poorly as a result unless corrective action of some form is taken. +1 Dex will make hits more reliable and bump DPR slightly, that will be eh in the mean time (he isn't a warrior, so just don't expect damage) but at 6th level when they can get an extra 2d6 on an attack that extra accuracy will be important.

Otherwise I'd go for Tough, they don't gain Con to their hp like players do and the bonus action help they get is dependent on being in melee, the extra durability can't hurt. On the same note if you're not relying on them to do damage, just treat them as an advantage generator and dodge as their main action.

[MaxWilson]

I also though of Sharpshooter, but the damage increase is very slight compared to +2 Dex, and there's no scaling to it.

Any other ideas? Thanks!

Sharpshooter will also let him throw nets without disadvantage, to grant everybody in the party advantage instead of just one guy with Help.

I also like the Healer idea.

Skulker has some potential too, to let him scout ahead in darkness/etc. without being caught. The party could benefit greatly from knowledge of what's ahead. On the other hand, you could get the same level of knowledge just by casting Invisibility on the Expert instead, so it's really only saving you some spell slots.

[heavyfuel]

Personally I'd go for +1 Dex, that Sidekick's stats are rough and they will age poorly as a result unless corrective action of some form is taken. +1 Dex will make hits more reliable and bump DPR slightly, that will be eh in the mean time (he isn't a warrior, so just don't expect damage) but at 6th level when they can get an extra 2d6 on an attack that extra accuracy will be important.

Otherwise I'd go for Tough, they don't gain Con to their hp like players do and the bonus action help they get is dependent on being in melee, the extra durability can't hurt. On the same note if you're not relying on them to do damage, just treat them as an advantage generator and dodge as their main action.

Yeah, I think it's either +2 Dex or Healer. Personally I'd go for healer, but I'll see what the rest of the party thinks.


Sharpshooter will also let him throw nets without disadvantage, to grant everybody in the party advantage instead of just one guy with Help.

I also like the Healer idea.

Skulker has some potential too, to let him scout ahead in darkness/etc. without being caught. The party could benefit greatly from knowledge of what's ahead. On the other hand, you could get the same level of knowledge just by casting Invisibility on the Expert instead, so it's really only saving you some spell slots.

"everybody in the party" would just be the Fighter, since he's the only one making attacks :smallbiggrin:

Potentially better than Help, since it would work for both attacks (starting at lv5), but not really worth a feat, I don't think.

Skulker is nice, but I can usually get my Rat familiar to do the scouting indoors and my Owl to do it outdoors, so not that useful either.

[MaxWilson]

"everybody in the party" would just be the Fighter, since he's the only one making attacks :smallbiggrin:

Potentially better than Help, since it would work for both attacks (starting at lv5), but not really worth a feat, I don't think.

Skulker is nice, but I can usually get my Rat familiar to do the scouting indoors and my Owl to do it outdoors, so not that useful either.

Really, the fighter is the only one in the party ever making attacks? Not even cantrips?

There are defensive/action economy advantages to net throwing as well, and IIRC it doesn't conflict with the Expert's Help bonus action so you can actually get both.

But since you're attracted to Healer I recommend going with that.

[heavyfuel]

Really, the fighter is the only one in the party ever making attacks? Not even cantrips?

There are defensive/action economy advantages to net throwing as well, and IIRC it doesn't conflict with the Expert's Help bonus action so you can actually get both.

But since you're attracted to Healer I recommend going with that.

Pretty much, yeah. I only chose one attack Cantrip and I chose Toll the Dead because I didn't want to screw up the setup of the Expert helping the Fighter and then I getting the attack roll with Adv. The Fighter deals way more damage than I do, so he should be the one getting Adv, not me. (also my DM doesn't let my familiar Help, which sucks, but whatever)

The Expert himself usually attacks as well, but - as previously said - it's not a huge boost to our party's DPR.

I don't think the Net is big no-no, but without proficiency (Experts aren't proficient wit Martial Weapons), I don't think it's worth it spending a feat just so I also don't get Disadv on the attack.

[MaxWilson]

Pretty much, yeah. I only chose one attack Cantrip and I chose Toll the Dead because I didn't want to screw up the setup of the Expert helping the Fighter and then I getting the attack roll with Adv. The Fighter deals way more damage than I do, so he should be the one getting Adv, not me. (also my DM doesn't let my familiar Help, which sucks, but whatever)

The Expert himself usually attacks as well, but - as previously said - it's not a huge boost to our party's DPR.

I don't think the Net is big no-no, but without proficiency (Experts aren't proficient wit Martial Weapons), I don't think it's worth it spending a feat just so I also don't get Disadv on the attack.

Oh, I overlooked the proficiency bit. Yeah, definitely Healer then.